Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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After the long thread on drilling and peck drilling I thought I'ld post this
video for you as an alternative way to drill holes that seems to be faster
than peck drilling for many of my applications. Yes, I'm doing this dry.
The darn day job keeps interfering with my hobbies and I still have not
finished my enclosure. It ramps in at about 5IPM and finishes the pass at
20IPM. The cutter is turning about 15000 RPM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM4LXXNzLYw

Yes, they are slightly out of round due to backlash and run out, but not
enough to matter for most applications. If I needed them perfectly round I
think I'ld pocket them .005 to .010 undersize and then drill or ream as
needed.

Yeah, I'm sure there are a million reasons why this is a bad idea, but for a
ton of applications it works great.

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On Sep 8, 2:58*pm, "Bob La Londe" wrote:
After the long thread on drilling and peck drilling I thought I'ld post this
video for you as an alternative way to drill holes that seems to be faster
than peck drilling for many of my applications. *Yes, I'm doing this dry.
The darn day job keeps interfering with my hobbies and I still have not
finished my enclosure. *It ramps in at about 5IPM and finishes the pass at
20IPM. *The cutter is turning about 15000 RPM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM4LXXNzLYw

Yes, they are slightly out of round due to backlash and run out, but not
enough to matter for most applications. *If I needed them perfectly round I
think I'ld pocket them .005 to .010 undersize and then drill or ream as
needed.

Yeah, I'm sure there are a million reasons why this is a bad idea, but for a
ton of applications it works great.


At 15,000 rpm and 5 IPM, you are annoying the metal out of the way,
not cutting it.
You want to cut the chips, not rub it to death. Maybe less rpm?
Or maybe clean the hole out under size at a faster feed rate, and then
a slower finish pass to clean up the hole to size. Speed might not
affect your backlash anyway. But the servo tuning might affect it's
ability to keep up to the feed rate.

Here is an example of a (small) full scale machine. A Robodrill. Just
for grins...
In aluminum, I was running 24,000 rpm, and pocketing at 180 ipm with a
3 flute Zirconium cutter 3/16" Diam .28" deep. Spiral plunge into the
bottom, and interpolate the hole. Holes from .500", .345" .280" .214"
30 holes in 28 seconds including tool changes and rapids all over the
part. Within a few 10ths over Thousand of parts.

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What's that Lassie? You say that Bob La Londe fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Wed, 8 Sep 2010 12:58:22 -0700:

It ramps in at about 5IPM and finishes the pass at
20IPM. The cutter is turning about 15000 RPM.


That's about .0003 to .001 per rev. If a two flute cutter the
chipload is .00015 to .0005. Way too light.

Slow down the RPMs or speed up the feed.
Try for .003 -.005 per flute.

I'm guessing that you can't feed as fast as your RPM would require.

Sucks when you have one weak link in your chain.
--

Dan H.
northshore MA.
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"Cross-Slide" wrote in message
...
On Sep 8, 2:58 pm, "Bob La Londe" wrote:
After the long thread on drilling and peck drilling I thought I'ld post
this
video for you as an alternative way to drill holes that seems to be
faster
than peck drilling for many of my applications. Yes, I'm doing this dry.
The darn day job keeps interfering with my hobbies and I still have not
finished my enclosure. It ramps in at about 5IPM and finishes the pass
at
20IPM. The cutter is turning about 15000 RPM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM4LXXNzLYw

Yes, they are slightly out of round due to backlash and run out, but not
enough to matter for most applications. If I needed them perfectly round
I
think I'ld pocket them .005 to .010 undersize and then drill or ream as
needed.

Yeah, I'm sure there are a million reasons why this is a bad idea, but
for a
ton of applications it works great.


At 15,000 rpm and 5 IPM,


*** PLUNGE *** with a 1/5 horse motor. Taking .005 per pass.

you are annoying the metal out of the way,
not cutting it.
You want to cut the chips, not rub it to death. Maybe less rpm?
Or maybe clean the hole out under size at a faster feed rate, and then
a slower finish pass to clean up the hole to size. Speed might not
affect your backlash anyway. But the servo tuning might affect it's
ability to keep up to the feed rate.

Here is an example of a (small) full scale machine. A Robodrill. Just
for grins...
In aluminum, I was running 24,000 rpm,


And probably 2.5 horsepower. Makes a difference. Also so does 9000 rpm.

and pocketing at 180 ipm with a
3 flute Zirconium cutter 3/16" Diam .28" deep. Spiral plunge into the
bottom, and interpolate the hole. Holes from .500", .345" .280" .214"
30 holes in 28 seconds including tool changes and rapids all over the
part. Within a few 10ths over Thousand of parts.

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On 2010-09-08, Bob La Londe wrote:
After the long thread on drilling and peck drilling I thought I'ld post this
video for you as an alternative way to drill holes that seems to be faster
than peck drilling for many of my applications. Yes, I'm doing this dry.
The darn day job keeps interfering with my hobbies and I still have not
finished my enclosure. It ramps in at about 5IPM and finishes the pass at
20IPM. The cutter is turning about 15000 RPM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM4LXXNzLYw

Yes, they are slightly out of round due to backlash and run out, but not
enough to matter for most applications. If I needed them perfectly round I
think I'ld pocket them .005 to .010 undersize and then drill or ream as
needed.

Yeah, I'm sure there are a million reasons why this is a bad idea, but for a
ton of applications it works great.


I think that it is a great idea, esp. for mills without automatic tool
changers and where production time does not matter. Also useful when
you do not have the right size drills.

i


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On 2010-09-09, Jon Anderson wrote:
On 9/8/2010 11:58 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:

Yeah, I'm sure there are a million reasons why this is a bad idea, but
for a ton of applications it works great.


Actually, this is done a lot now, just peruse some videos on Youtube.
I'd do it myself quite often, but one of the flaws in Ahha is that
thread milling (the only option for this sort of approach) does not work
well. When I have to threadmill, I drop back to an earlier version that
sorta works...

Just one of the reasons I'm seriously looking to switch to either EMC or
Mach3 in the near future...


I have been extremely happy with EMC. Besides everything else, EMC has
top notch community support, on the mailing list for big questions,
and on IRC for little questions.

i
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On Wed, 08 Sep 2010 17:08:33 -0800, Jon Anderson
wrote:

On 9/8/2010 11:58 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:

Yeah, I'm sure there are a million reasons why this is a bad idea, but
for a ton of applications it works great.


Actually, this is done a lot now, just peruse some videos on Youtube.
I'd do it myself quite often, but one of the flaws in Ahha is that
thread milling (the only option for this sort of approach) does not work
well. When I have to threadmill, I drop back to an earlier version that
sorta works...

Just one of the reasons I'm seriously looking to switch to either EMC or
Mach3 in the near future...


Jon


You have an AHHA control? I used it for years. Great control for its
time.

I made a Mach parallel port to RC500 AHHA control box cable and was
able to switch from Mach to AHHA with just a cable switch. At the time
Mach (1) was not as good as AHHA. I tried again when Mach2 came out
but very shortly later I upgraded to servos and a closed loop control.

From what little I've read Mach has come a long way. This would be a
quick simple upgrade.

Karl

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On 9/8/2010 11:58 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:

Yeah, I'm sure there are a million reasons why this is a bad idea, but
for a ton of applications it works great.


Actually, this is done a lot now, just peruse some videos on Youtube.
I'd do it myself quite often, but one of the flaws in Ahha is that
thread milling (the only option for this sort of approach) does not work
well. When I have to threadmill, I drop back to an earlier version that
sorta works...

Just one of the reasons I'm seriously looking to switch to either EMC or
Mach3 in the near future...


Jon
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On 9/8/2010 4:23 PM, Ignoramus10551 wrote:

I have been extremely happy with EMC. Besides everything else, EMC has
top notch community support, on the mailing list for big questions,
and on IRC for little questions.


Yeah, I've not read all your threads on the conversion, but enough to
know how pleased you are, and that got me thinking again about getting
moving on making the switch. Thanks for the kick I needed!


Jon
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On 9/8/2010 4:52 PM, Karl Townsend wrote:

You have an AHHA control? I used it for years. Great control for its
time.


Yeah, it's been a mostly dead reliable system. But it's getting hard to
find cheap computers without any AGP slots and finding video cards that
don't cause problems.

From what little I've read Mach has come a long way. This would be a
quick simple upgrade.


I'm sorta pondering building a dual boot system and trying both Mach3
and EMC. But it takes time to get used to any new system, and both will
require modifying all my programs (probably close to a hundred), just
not sure I really have the time to invest in that comparison. I am quite
sure I'd be happy with either, just have to make the call... G


Jon


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Jon Anderson wrote:

On 9/8/2010 4:52 PM, Karl Townsend wrote:

You have an AHHA control? I used it for years. Great control for its
time.


Yeah, it's been a mostly dead reliable system. But it's getting hard to
find cheap computers without any AGP slots and finding video cards that
don't cause problems.

From what little I've read Mach has come a long way. This would be a
quick simple upgrade.


I'm sorta pondering building a dual boot system and trying both Mach3
and EMC. But it takes time to get used to any new system, and both will
require modifying all my programs (probably close to a hundred), just
not sure I really have the time to invest in that comparison. I am quite
sure I'd be happy with either, just have to make the call... G

Jon


I did a side-by-side shootout when I started futzing with CNC. Two
identical surplus PCs, one with Linux/EMC and the other with
Windows/Mach3 just switching the cable from the machine between the PCs.
At that time it was EMC vs. Mach3 and Mach3 won by a healthy margin for
"refinement", both worked properly, but Mach3 was far cleaner and easier
to configure and manage. Now that EMC2 is available I expect it would
end up largely in a draw with either solution working equally well.
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Bob La Londe wrote:
After the long thread on drilling and peck drilling I thought I'ld
post this video for you as an alternative way to drill holes that
seems to be faster than peck drilling for many of my applications.
Yes, I'm doing this dry. The darn day job keeps interfering with my
hobbies and I still have not finished my enclosure. It ramps in at
about 5IPM and finishes the pass at 20IPM. The cutter is turning
about 15000 RPM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM4LXXNzLYw

I do this all the time. I make many equipment panels that have a wide
range of cutouts
(slots, rectangles and round holes) of varying sizes. So, I just put in
a 1/8" solid carbide
4-flute end mill and cut everything but 4-40 and 6-32 holes with one
tool. I have some
routines that generate the G-code for generic rectangles and round holes
posted on
my web pages at http://pico-systems.com/gcode.html

You just fill in the answers and it generates pretty efficient G-code
for the operation.
I then stitch the separate G-code files together to do the whole panel.

Perhaps your router can only handle these feedrates, I generally run
about 10 IPM
with only 2800 RPM. For the panels, I use a routine that "trepans" the
hole, cutting just
inside the final dimension, the slug drops out and then it makes the
finish pass. I generally
plunge about .050" each step down with the 1/8" end mill, so I do a 1/8"
panel all the
way through in 3 passes.

Jon
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On 2010-09-09, Jon Elson wrote:
Bob La Londe wrote:
After the long thread on drilling and peck drilling I thought I'ld
post this video for you as an alternative way to drill holes that
seems to be faster than peck drilling for many of my applications.
Yes, I'm doing this dry. The darn day job keeps interfering with my
hobbies and I still have not finished my enclosure. It ramps in at
about 5IPM and finishes the pass at 20IPM. The cutter is turning
about 15000 RPM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM4LXXNzLYw

I do this all the time. I make many equipment panels that have a wide
range of cutouts
(slots, rectangles and round holes) of varying sizes. So, I just put in
a 1/8" solid carbide
4-flute end mill and cut everything but 4-40 and 6-32 holes with one
tool. I have some
routines that generate the G-code for generic rectangles and round holes
posted on
my web pages at http://pico-systems.com/gcode.html

You just fill in the answers and it generates pretty efficient G-code
for the operation.
I then stitch the separate G-code files together to do the whole panel.


Jon, this is FAR easier to do with G-code subroutines. Trust me on
this.

Some call examples that I used to make a high speed sipndle adaptor are he

Ocirculargroove call [#quill_hole_xc] [#quill_hole_yc] [#safez] [#quill_hole_depth] [#quill_hole_major_diameter/2] [#milld] [#frate]

Odeeplineargroove call [-0.25] [#width/2] [#router_hole_xc - #router_hole_diameter/2+0.25] [#width/2] [-#thickness] [#safez] [#slit_frate] [0.06]

I mean, this is actually readable.

Perhaps your router can only handle these feedrates, I generally run
about 10 IPM
with only 2800 RPM.


must be thin aluminum. Is it loud?

For the panels, I use a routine that "trepans" the hole, cutting
just inside the final dimension, the slug drops out and then it
makes the finish pass. I generally plunge about .050" each step
down with the 1/8" end mill, so I do a 1/8" panel all the way
through in 3 passes.


Try writing subs for this, you will be amazed.

i
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"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
Bob La Londe wrote:
After the long thread on drilling and peck drilling I thought I'ld post
this video for you as an alternative way to drill holes that seems to be
faster than peck drilling for many of my applications. Yes, I'm doing
this dry. The darn day job keeps interfering with my hobbies and I still
have not finished my enclosure. It ramps in at about 5IPM and finishes
the pass at 20IPM. The cutter is turning about 15000 RPM.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dM4LXXNzLYw

I do this all the time. I make many equipment panels that have a wide
range of cutouts
(slots, rectangles and round holes) of varying sizes. So, I just put in a
1/8" solid carbide
4-flute end mill and cut everything but 4-40 and 6-32 holes with one tool.
I have some
routines that generate the G-code for generic rectangles and round holes
posted on
my web pages at http://pico-systems.com/gcode.html

You just fill in the answers and it generates pretty efficient G-code for
the operation.
I then stitch the separate G-code files together to do the whole panel.

Perhaps your router can only handle these feedrates, I generally run about
10 IPM
with only 2800 RPM. For the panels, I use a routine that "trepans" the
hole, cutting just
inside the final dimension, the slug drops out and then it makes the
finish pass. I generally
plunge about .050" each step down with the 1/8" end mill, so I do a 1/8"
panel all the
way through in 3 passes.


How big is your motor?

Its late and the math doesn't make sense. I'll plug it into g-wizard
tomorrow.

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On Wed, 08 Sep 2010 18:28:09 -0800, Jon Anderson wrote:

On 9/8/2010 4:52 PM, Karl Townsend wrote:

You have an AHHA control? I used it for years. Great control for its
time.


Yeah, it's been a mostly dead reliable system. But it's getting hard to
find cheap computers without any AGP slots and finding video cards that
don't cause problems.

From what little I've read Mach has come a long way. This would be a
quick simple upgrade.


I'm sorta pondering building a dual boot system and trying both Mach3
and EMC. But it takes time to get used to any new system, and both will
require modifying all my programs (probably close to a hundred), just
not sure I really have the time to invest in that comparison. I am quite
sure I'd be happy with either, just have to make the call... G


Jon


Say, i went looking for how I built the Mach to AHHA converter cable. I couldn't find it. But I did find when I chopped
that cable up to try Galil. So, the notes below have columns that explain all the AHHA function. I had used a 37 pin
rainbow color ribbon connector from digikey.

This should be worth what you paid for it.


WIRING CONNECTIONS:


DB37 connector from 1900 to Ahha step driver
(brown tape on first 10 wires, red tape around 2nd 10, Orange around 3rd 10, Yellow around last seven)


Wire color db37pin 1900 pin Function Ready to run Logic state Output on
(GRN=LOW RED=HI) limitswitch On
brn - brn 1 17 Grnd
brn - red 20 34 PWMX
brn - org 2 33 SIGNX
brn - yel 21 31 PWMY
brn - grn 3 30 SIGNY
brn - blu 22 28 PWMZ
brn - vlt 4 27 SIGNX
brn - gry 23 25 PWMW
brn - wht 5 24 SIGNW
brn - blk 24 74 GRND _ OUTS GRN

red - brn 6 66 OUT1 Auxout1 - Drive enable on RC500 GRN RED
E stop on pendant powers out1 drive enable pin 6 GRN RED
red - red 25 67 OUT2 Auxout2 - Mister GRN RED
red - org 7 68 OUT3 Auxout3 - Spindle CW GRN RED
red - yel 26 69 OUT4 Auxout4 - Spindle CCW GRN RED
red - grn 8 70 OUT5 Auxout5 - not used now GRN RED
red - blu 27 reserved by Ahha - don't connect GRN
red - vlt 9 reserved by Ahha - don't connect GRN
red - gry 28 reserved by Ahha - don't connect GRN


red - wht 10 55 GRND limit switch ground GRN
red - blk 29 52 RLSX Axis 1 minus limit switch GRN RED
org - brn 11 53 FLSX Axis 1 plus limit switch GRN RED
org - red 30 49 RLSY Axis 2 minus limit switch GRN RED
org - org 12 50 FLSY Axis 2 plus limit switch GRN RED
org - yel 31 46 RLSZ Axis 3 minus limit switch GRN RED
org - grn 13 47 FLSZ Axis 3 plus limit switch GRN RED
Relays in cablinet all NC to pin 10 LS GRND


org - blu 32 not connected Axis 4 minus limit switch RED
org - vlt 14 not connected Axis 4 plus limit switch RED
org - gry 33 55 GRND Grnd for Auxins GRN
org - wht 15 65 ABORT Auxin1 - ALLWAYS E-STOP GRN
*need to change state above Galil says abort input active
org - blk 34 not connected Auxin2 RED

yel - brn 16 not connected Auxin3 RED
yel - red 35 not connected Auxin4 RED
yel - org 17 reserved by Ahha - don't connect RED
yel - yel 36 reserved by Ahha - don't connect RED
yel - grn 18 reserved by Ahha - don't connect RED
yel - blu 37 not connected AUxin8 Nothing
yel - vlt 19 56 INCOM +5 volt DC output Nothing







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On 9/9/2010 3:16 AM, Karl Townsend wrote:

Say, i went looking for how I built the Mach to AHHA converter cable. I couldn't find it. But I did find when I chopped
that cable up to try Galil. So, the notes below have columns that explain all the AHHA function. I had used a 37 pin
rainbow color ribbon connector from digikey.

This should be worth what you paid for it.


I think all that info is in the Ahha manual, but thanks for posting,
archived for future reference!


Jon
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What's that Lassie? You say that Bob La Londe fell down the old
rec.crafts.metalworking mine and will die if we don't mount a rescue
by Wed, 8 Sep 2010 16:22:49 -0700:

Sucks when you have one weak link in your chain.

The weak link is the 1/5 HP motor driving the cutter.


I see. That does limit things a bit.
And none of that was the point. The point was that atleast with my setup I
can pocket a hole faster than I can peck drill it, and have no risk of
sticking a bit.


I have to admit I haven't seen the video(I'm on dial-up).
Sounds interesting to see.



--

Dan H.
northshore MA.
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On 09/09/2010 12:37 AM, Ignoramus10551 wrote:


Jon, this is FAR easier to do with G-code subroutines. Trust me on
this.

Hmm, maybe, but I've gotten used to what my own routines do, and I can
modify them when
I feel like. I now have a rectangular routine that ramps down, I have
to add that to my circular one, too. But, sometime I have to check out
some of these routines and see if I like them.

Perhaps your router can only handle these feedrates, I generally run
about 10 IPM
with only 2800 RPM.


must be thin aluminum. Is it loud?

usually .062 to .125" thick. No, not loud at all. There's a slight hum
when the cutter is in the work.
For the panels, I use a routine that "trepans" the hole, cutting
just inside the final dimension, the slug drops out and then it
makes the finish pass. I generally plunge about .050" each step
down with the 1/8" end mill, so I do a 1/8" panel all the way
through in 3 passes.


Try writing subs for this, you will be amazed.

I know the C code for it, no question you could do a G code sub, but it
would be just a little complicated.

But, a while ago I ran into some SERIOUS problems with subroutines. I
had a slot that was to be repeated many times, so I programmed it once
and offset the work coords to repeat it. EMC would cut it OK, although
the Axis preview was not right. But, EMC2 was NOT able to restart the
job in the middle at all. You could set the correct parameters to the
right state for a restart, but when you did the "run from line" it would
just go to the end of the program, following all the subroutines.
I had to give up and do it without subs.

I don't know for sure if this would behave the same way in your use, but
it put me off subroutines in a big way. This was just last year, or
maybe even early this year, so I don't think this has been fixed.

John Kasunich's comment on this problem was "subroutines are evil, don't
use them!"

Jon
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On 09/09/2010 01:59 AM, Bob La Londe wrote:


"Jon Elson" wrote in message


Perhaps your router can only handle these feedrates, I generally run
about 10 IPM
with only 2800 RPM. For the panels, I use a routine that "trepans" the
hole, cutting just
inside the final dimension, the slug drops out and then it makes the
finish pass. I generally
plunge about .050" each step down with the 1/8" end mill, so I do a
1/8" panel all the
way through in 3 passes.


How big is your motor?

Its late and the math doesn't make sense. I'll plug it into g-wizard
tomorrow.


I'm not the guy with the Youtube video. I do this on a Bridgeport with
1J head, so top speed without over-speeding the motor is 2800 RPM. It
is a 1 Hp motor. Obviously, you can't draw 1 HP on a 1/8" end mill at
2800 RPM.

Jon
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On 2010-09-10, Jon Elson wrote:
On 09/09/2010 12:37 AM, Ignoramus10551 wrote:


Jon, this is FAR easier to do with G-code subroutines. Trust me on
this.

Hmm, maybe, but I've gotten used to what my own routines do, and I can
modify them when
I feel like.


I am talking about subroutines, not canned cycles.

You write your own G-code subroutines. And you can modify them at will
any time you want.

Using subroutines allows you to write code that is easy to read and
modify.

I now have a rectangular routine that ramps down, I have
to add that to my circular one, too. But, sometime I have to check out
some of these routines and see if I like them.


The whole point is that you write your own. I wrote some subs for
myself that do the same pocketing and ramping down.

Perhaps your router can only handle these feedrates, I generally run
about 10 IPM
with only 2800 RPM.


must be thin aluminum. Is it loud?

usually .062 to .125" thick. No, not loud at all. There's a slight hum
when the cutter is in the work.


not bad

For the panels, I use a routine that "trepans" the hole, cutting
just inside the final dimension, the slug drops out and then it
makes the finish pass. I generally plunge about .050" each step
down with the 1/8" end mill, so I do a 1/8" panel all the way
through in 3 passes.


Try writing subs for this, you will be amazed.

I know the C code for it, no question you could do a G code sub, but it
would be just a little complicated.

But, a while ago I ran into some SERIOUS problems with subroutines. I
had a slot that was to be repeated many times, so I programmed it once
and offset the work coords to repeat it. EMC would cut it OK, although
the Axis preview was not right. But, EMC2 was NOT able to restart the
job in the middle at all. You could set the correct parameters to the
right state for a restart, but when you did the "run from line" it would
just go to the end of the program, following all the subroutines.
I had to give up and do it without subs.

I don't know for sure if this would behave the same way in your use, but
it put me off subroutines in a big way. This was just last year, or
maybe even early this year, so I don't think this has been fixed.

John Kasunich's comment on this problem was "subroutines are evil, don't
use them!"


Did He give any explanation? I am writing them right and left and am
very happy.

i


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In article ,
Ignoramus4779 wrote:

On 2010-09-10, Jon Elson wrote:
On 09/09/2010 12:37 AM, Ignoramus10551 wrote:

[snip]

John Kasunich's comment on this problem was "subroutines are evil, don't
use them!"


Did He give any explanation? I am writing them right and left and am
very happy.


Codesmith meets metalmuncher?


Joe Gwinn
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Ignoramus4779 wrote:


Did He give any explanation? I am writing them right and left and am
very happy.

My program was a bit different, instead of passing parameters to the
subroutine, I was
offsetting the work coordinate system each time before calling the
subroutine.
So, I would do :
G01 X1.2345 Y3.456
O100 call
G01 X3.456 Y4.567
O100 call
......
and the subroutine had :

O100 sub
N01 G55
N02 G92 X0 Y0
N03 G01 F45.0 X0.0725 Y0.0725
N04 Z0.01
......

The first problem I had was an unspecified Z offset was changing without
my specifying it. I was
assuming that if I didn't specify a Z offset in the G92 that the Z
offset would not be changed.

The fix for that was to use G10 L20, and to specify
all axes in the command. This all got discussed on the EMC developer's
list on 5/14/2010.
Up to this point, I think the entire problem was my fault in not
understanding how G92 works.

But, then, I ran into the "run from line" problem, where I could not
restart the program in the
middle. It wasn't until 5/17 that John Kasunich made the immortal "it
is evil. don't do it"
statement, but he actually said that Run from line was evil, not
subroutines! Sorry for my
mis-remembering exactly what he said.

Anyway, I don't think there was ever a concrete explanation of what was
wrong, or if there
was any fix. The program is still up on pastebin, at
http://pastebin.com/embed_js.php?i=QyjpZUD9
If you want, you can try it out. It defines a subroutine, then moves to
the first slot corner
and calls the subroutine, moves, calls it again, etc. The subroutine
shifts the G55 coordinate
system with G10 L20 P2, then changes to the G55 system and machines a
slot, then goes
back to G54 and returns. At the end of 24 slots, it does some different
cutouts with linear program steps. If you interrupt the run after the
first subroutine, and then try to run from
line, it will skip the 24 subroutine slots and perform the last cutouts
perfectly. You can try this in air
and watch the Axis preview to follow what it is doing. It didn't do
anything wild, it just skipped over
a huge part of the job.


Jon
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On 2010-09-11, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus4779 wrote:


Did He give any explanation? I am writing them right and left and am
very happy.

My program was a bit different, instead of passing parameters to the
subroutine, I was
offsetting the work coordinate system each time before calling the
subroutine.
So, I would do :
G01 X1.2345 Y3.456
O100 call
G01 X3.456 Y4.567
O100 call
.....
and the subroutine had :

O100 sub
N01 G55
N02 G92 X0 Y0
N03 G01 F45.0 X0.0725 Y0.0725
N04 Z0.01
.....

The first problem I had was an unspecified Z offset was changing without
my specifying it. I was
assuming that if I didn't specify a Z offset in the G92 that the Z
offset would not be changed.

The fix for that was to use G10 L20, and to specify
all axes in the command. This all got discussed on the EMC developer's
list on 5/14/2010.
Up to this point, I think the entire problem was my fault in not
understanding how G92 works.

But, then, I ran into the "run from line" problem, where I could not
restart the program in the
middle. It wasn't until 5/17 that John Kasunich made the immortal "it
is evil. don't do it"
statement, but he actually said that Run from line was evil, not
subroutines! Sorry for my
mis-remembering exactly what he said.

Anyway, I don't think there was ever a concrete explanation of what was
wrong, or if there
was any fix. The program is still up on pastebin, at
http://pastebin.com/embed_js.php?i=QyjpZUD9
If you want, you can try it out. It defines a subroutine, then moves to
the first slot corner
and calls the subroutine, moves, calls it again, etc. The subroutine
shifts the G55 coordinate
system with G10 L20 P2, then changes to the G55 system and machines a
slot, then goes
back to G54 and returns. At the end of 24 slots, it does some different
cutouts with linear program steps. If you interrupt the run after the
first subroutine, and then try to run from
line, it will skip the 24 subroutine slots and perform the last cutouts
perfectly. You can try this in air
and watch the Axis preview to follow what it is doing. It didn't do
anything wild, it just skipped over
a huge part of the job.


Jon


Jon, the way I write subroutines involves several things that help
me.

1. I write named subroutines and save them to files corresponding to
their names.
2. I use named variables in the subroutine.
3. I use offsets and named arguments

Ohelloworld sub
#x0 = #1 (X offset)
#y0 = #2 (Y offset)
#safez = #3 (Safe Z)
#l = #4 (length of the cross)
#depth = #5 (depth of cutting)

... perform operation ...
Ohelloworld endsub
M2 (M2 required at end of subroutine files)


THen to call it I just say in my main code or other subs

Ohelloworld call [1] [2] [0.03] [0.4] [-0.05]

It works really well for me and the resulting code is VERY EASY TO
READ. It is also easy to change.

I also have subroutines where I pass other subroutines into them. I
use one to perform a multipass deep cut based on a shape performed by
the parameter subroutine. This is how I made a complex shape cutoff on
my spindle adapter.

It was as easy as pie. Here's a sub that performs a deep cut defined
by a subroutine number that I pass in as a number:

Odeepanycut sub
#behavior = #1 (Subroutine to do whatever is needed)
#safez = #2 (Safe Z)
#depth = #3 (Depth to go, usually negative)
#zstep = #4 (Z Step, positive)
#frate = #5 (Feedrate)

#z = #safez

Owhile while[1]
#old_z = #z

Oif if [ #z - #zstep LE #depth ]
#z = #depth
#isfinal = 1
Oif else
#z = [#z - #zstep]
#isfinal = 0
Oif endif

O[#behavior] call [#safez] [#old_z] [#z] [#frate] [#isfinal] [#6] [#7] [#8] [#9] [#10] [#11] [#12] [#13] [#14]

Oif if [ #z LE #depth ]
Owhile break
Oif endif
Owhile endwhile
Odeepanycut endsub


and then to cutt of that shape I would use a sub like this


O101 sub
#safez = #1
#old_z = #2
#z = #3
#frate = #4
#isfinal = #5

#direction = #6
#xc = #7
#width = #8
#milld = #9
#lip = #10

F#frate


#radius = [[#width-#lip]/2]

#yc = [#width/2]

G0 Z#safez
G4 P0
G0 X#xc Y[#width+#milld/2]

G40

G0 Z#z

Oif if [ #direction LT 0 ]
G42.1 D#milld
#circle_code = 3
Oif else
G41.1 D#milld
#circle_code = 2
Oif endif

G#circle_code X[#xc + #direction*#radius ] Y[#width - #radius] R[#radius]
G1 X[#xc + #direction*#radius + #direction*#lip]
G1 Y[#radius]
G1 X[#xc + #direction* #radius ]
G#circle_code X#xc Y0 R[#radius]

G0 Z#safez
G4 P0

G40


O101 endsub


Odeepanycut call [101] [#safez] [-#thickness] [#milld/3] [#frate] [-1] [#router_hole_xc] [#width] [#milld] [#lip]
Odeepanycut call [101] [#safez] [-#thickness] [#milld/3] [#frate] [+1] [#quill_hole_xc] [#width] [#milld] [#lip]

This cuts left and right semicircular shapes with lips etc, on both
sides. -1 and +1 define their orientation.

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Ignoramus1469 wrote:
Jon, the way I write subroutines involves several things that help
me.

1. I write named subroutines and save them to files corresponding to
their names.
2. I use named variables in the subroutine.
3. I use offsets and named arguments

Yeah, since I've been using EMC(1) since 1998, I have developed habits
that prevent
me from exploring a bunch of new features that might make my life easier!
Ohelloworld sub
#x0 = #1 (X offset)
#y0 = #2 (Y offset)
#safez = #3 (Safe Z)
#l = #4 (length of the cross)
#depth = #5 (depth of cutting)

... perform operation ...
Ohelloworld endsub
M2 (M2 required at end of subroutine files)


THen to call it I just say in my main code or other subs

Ohelloworld call [1] [2] [0.03] [0.4] [-0.05]

It works really well for me and the resulting code is VERY EASY TO
READ. It is also easy to change.

Yes, I really need to learn how to use these features. Subroutines have
been in EMC
for some time, but named subroutines and named variables are pretty new.
I also have subroutines where I pass other subroutines into them.

Also cool stuff, I will have to learn some of your tricks. But, also,
you are exploring
a new world with EMC, I just have parts to make, often with programs
that were
written 5 years ago, and just make minute changes to them to tweak the
fit of
something. There rarely seems to be time to really explore things and
learn new
stuff.


Jon
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On 9/11/2010 2:05 PM, Jon Elson wrote:

I just have parts to make, often with programs that were written 5
years ago, and just make minute changes to them to tweak the fit of
something. There rarely seems to be time to really explore things and
learn new stuff.


I'm rather envious of the time Iggy seems to have available to play
around and experiment. What's your secret Iggy? Got yourself a clone or
two out earning the paychecks so you can play? G

Bagged a 2.6GHz Dell today with half a gig ram and LCD for $15 at a yard
sale. So now I have a computer available to play with EMC or Mach3.
Decisions, decisions...


Jon


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On 2010-09-12, Jon Anderson wrote:
On 9/11/2010 2:05 PM, Jon Elson wrote:

I just have parts to make, often with programs that were written 5
years ago, and just make minute changes to them to tweak the fit of
something. There rarely seems to be time to really explore things and
learn new stuff.


I'm rather envious of the time Iggy seems to have available to play
around and experiment. What's your secret Iggy? Got yourself a clone or
two out earning the paychecks so you can play? G

Bagged a 2.6GHz Dell today with half a gig ram and LCD for $15 at a yard
sale. So now I have a computer available to play with EMC or Mach3.
Decisions, decisions...


When you try EMC, subscribe to emc-users mailing list.

i
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On 2010-09-12, Jon Anderson wrote:
On 9/11/2010 2:05 PM, Jon Elson wrote:

I just have parts to make, often with programs that were written 5
years ago, and just make minute changes to them to tweak the fit of
something. There rarely seems to be time to really explore things and
learn new stuff.


I'm rather envious of the time Iggy seems to have available to play
around and experiment. What's your secret Iggy? Got yourself a clone or
two out earning the paychecks so you can play? G


The secret is I sleep less than I would like. Plus I have EMC
installed on many computers and work on it on train, etc.

Bagged a 2.6GHz Dell today with half a gig ram and LCD for $15 at a yard
sale. So now I have a computer available to play with EMC or Mach3.
Decisions, decisions...

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On 2010-09-11, Jon Elson wrote:
Ignoramus1469 wrote:
Jon, the way I write subroutines involves several things that help
me.

1. I write named subroutines and save them to files corresponding to
their names.
2. I use named variables in the subroutine.
3. I use offsets and named arguments

Yeah, since I've been using EMC(1) since 1998, I have developed habits
that prevent
me from exploring a bunch of new features that might make my life easier!
Ohelloworld sub
#x0 = #1 (X offset)
#y0 = #2 (Y offset)
#safez = #3 (Safe Z)
#l = #4 (length of the cross)
#depth = #5 (depth of cutting)

... perform operation ...
Ohelloworld endsub
M2 (M2 required at end of subroutine files)


THen to call it I just say in my main code or other subs

Ohelloworld call [1] [2] [0.03] [0.4] [-0.05]

It works really well for me and the resulting code is VERY EASY TO
READ. It is also easy to change.

Yes, I really need to learn how to use these features. Subroutines have
been in EMC
for some time, but named subroutines and named variables are pretty new.
I also have subroutines where I pass other subroutines into them.

Also cool stuff, I will have to learn some of your tricks. But, also,
you are exploring
a new world with EMC, I just have parts to make, often with programs
that were
written 5 years ago, and just make minute changes to them to tweak the
fit of
something. There rarely seems to be time to really explore things and
learn new
stuff.


Well, if you do something new, you can try. EMC G-code is a full
featured programming language, with conditionals, loops, and subs.

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On 9/11/2010 7:31 PM, Ignoramus1469 wrote:

When you try EMC, subscribe to emc-users mailing list.


Downloaded and burned the ISO disk, just playing been playing with it,
but I'm about to hit the install button... Unbuntu and EMC2 have come a
LONG way since I played with the Brain Dead Install CD years ago.

One thing I want to do ASAP is get Unbuntu running with the wireless
internet card, as some of the docs are online, and makes it much easier
to track the EMC list right where I will certainly be needing it!

Drivers for the card were not installed, might have to pull the card to
see exactly what it is, then see if I can find drivers for it under
Unbuntu.


Jon
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On 9/11/2010 7:32 PM, Ignoramus1469 wrote:

The secret is I sleep less than I would like.


I remember being able to get away with that... G


Jon


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Default Iggy, Unbuntu and network card?

Jon Anderson wrote:
Quick question, do you have your EMC computer networked, and if so,
via wire or wireless? What card are you using? I looked up the Linksys
card in mine and it's not well supported. Looking for compatible
cards, I see a whole host of issues, including lack of WEP support in
some.
I therefore assume there's other cards that will also have issues with
security. I could run a cable, I think I have one long enough. But
will have to research and see if the 3Com cards I have are compatible...

The Dell should have an on-mobo wired ethernet port. I use only wired
ethernet for a variety of reasons:
mostly security and reliability in a high-noise environment (we have
nearby cell towers, and of course, CNC machines).
I think all 3com cards and chips will be supported.

Jon

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Ignoramus1469 wrote:
Well, if you do something new, you can try. EMC G-code is a full
featured programming language, with conditionals, loops, and subs.

I know about that, and worked through a multipass threading code which I
used
to debug the spindle sync functions a few years ago.

Jon
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Default Iggy, Unbuntu and network card?

Quick question, do you have your EMC computer networked, and if so, via
wire or wireless? What card are you using? I looked up the Linksys card
in mine and it's not well supported. Looking for compatible cards, I see
a whole host of issues, including lack of WEP support in some.
I therefore assume there's other cards that will also have issues with
security. I could run a cable, I think I have one long enough. But will
have to research and see if the 3Com cards I have are compatible...

Thanks,


Jon
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On 9/12/2010 7:44 PM, Ignoramus478 wrote:

What is the card make and model?


Linksys WMP11, V4.

There is, apparently, ONE driver that should work, but it's $20.

It will probably work. Myself, I only rely on wired networking for
anything important (like CNC machines).


Nice thing about where I live, nobody close enough to scarf into my
network. To try and hack it, one would have to be in my driveway, and
I'm home 98% of the time (geez, that's depressing now that I think about
it!). Network security isn't a big issue for me here.

I can go wire once I'm up and running, but right now I have this
computer upstairs while I'm reading the manuals and such. Really have
nowhere in the shop to setup another computer right now. -Might- be able
to snake a cable down through the floor and down to the router.

Thanks,


Jon
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On 2010-09-13, Jon Anderson wrote:
BTW, the Dell has built in Ethernet port, I'm hoping it shouldn't be any
huge deal to get Unbuntu to recognize that...


You mean Ubuntu, right? It should work.

i


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Default Iggy, Unbuntu and network card?

On 2010-09-13, Jon Anderson wrote:
Quick question, do you have your EMC computer networked,


Yes.

and if so, via wire or wireless?


Via wire. I wired my whole house with Ethernet some time ago. I use
wireless only for laptops.

What card are you using? I looked up the Linksys card in mine and
it's not well supported.


What is your card?

Looking for compatible cards, I see a whole host of issues,
including lack of WEP support in some. I therefore assume there's
other cards that will also have issues with security. I could run a
cable, I think I have one long enough. But will have to research and
see if the 3Com cards I have are compatible...


I can probably find a card that should work great out of the box (most
PCi cards should, anyway). I have not yet looked into your particular
card.

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Default Iggy, Unbuntu and network card?

On 2010-09-13, Jon Elson wrote:
Jon Anderson wrote:
Quick question, do you have your EMC computer networked, and if so,
via wire or wireless? What card are you using? I looked up the Linksys
card in mine and it's not well supported. Looking for compatible
cards, I see a whole host of issues, including lack of WEP support in
some.
I therefore assume there's other cards that will also have issues with
security. I could run a cable, I think I have one long enough. But
will have to research and see if the 3Com cards I have are compatible...

The Dell should have an on-mobo wired ethernet port. I use only
wired ethernet for a variety of reasons: mostly security and
reliability in a high-noise environment (we have nearby cell towers,
and of course, CNC machines). I think all 3com cards and chips will
be supported.


In addition, my CNC control computer is placed INSIDE a steel cabinet
(the same cabinet that came with the mill), and there is no way a wifi
signal could get out of there. :-)

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On 2010-09-13, Jon Anderson wrote:
On 9/12/2010 7:44 PM, Ignoramus478 wrote:

What is the card make and model?


Linksys WMP11, V4.

There is, apparently, ONE driver that should work, but it's $20.


Can you post results of lspci?

Someone said: ``The LInksys WMP11 contains a BCM4301 chip.''

http://kubuntuforums.net/forums/inde...opic=3107089.0

If so, this is similar to what my old laptop has. It should be
straightforward to make it work.

Do this

sudo apt-get install b43-fwcutter
sudo /usr/share/bcm43xx-fwcutter/install_bcm43xx_firmware.sh

Then after this your network manager should be able to see your card.

It will probably work. Myself, I only rely on wired networking for
anything important (like CNC machines).


Nice thing about where I live, nobody close enough to scarf into my
network. To try and hack it, one would have to be in my driveway, and
I'm home 98% of the time (geez, that's depressing now that I think about
it!). Network security isn't a big issue for me here.


Sure, but electrical noise and reliability are still issues.

I can go wire once I'm up and running, but right now I have this
computer upstairs while I'm reading the manuals and such. Really have
nowhere in the shop to setup another computer right now. -Might- be able
to snake a cable down through the floor and down to the router.


Post results of lspci, you should be able to make it work.

I will help you.

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On 9/12/2010 9:36 PM, Ignoramus478 wrote:

You mean Ubuntu, right? It should work.


Der.... need my glasses... G


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Default Iggy, Unbuntu and network card?

On Mon, 13 Sep 2010 00:39:03 -0500, Ignoramus478
wrote:

On 2010-09-13, Jon Elson wrote:
Jon Anderson wrote:
Quick question, do you have your EMC computer networked, and if so,
via wire or wireless? What card are you using? I looked up the Linksys
card in mine and it's not well supported. Looking for compatible
cards, I see a whole host of issues, including lack of WEP support in
some.
I therefore assume there's other cards that will also have issues with
security. I could run a cable, I think I have one long enough. But
will have to research and see if the 3Com cards I have are compatible...

The Dell should have an on-mobo wired ethernet port. I use only
wired ethernet for a variety of reasons: mostly security and
reliability in a high-noise environment (we have nearby cell towers,
and of course, CNC machines). I think all 3com cards and chips will
be supported.


In addition, my CNC control computer is placed INSIDE a steel cabinet
(the same cabinet that came with the mill), and there is no way a wifi
signal could get out of there. :-)

i


Or you can do as I do..and use USB cable and a USB wifi device.

Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)
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