I installed the varidrive belt last night and had to have my wife help
me get the motor/drive assembly back into the machine this morning, then
I had to do some other Stuff.

This evening I started doing the Clausing Cringe..bleeding the hydraulic
lines and pump for the Vari Drive..and I got the thing up to about half
speed..and then it went limp on me. Pulling the lines..I found that the
pump wouldnt pressure up very much.

So I pulled the varidrive pump and broke it down..and sure enough..the
o-rings and seals had failed. Which is not terribly surprising,
considering that it was made in the mid 1970s, and hasnt been run for
the past hummm...10 yrs or more.

I had all the o-rings, but the piston ring ..what I thought was an
o-ring, inside the bore..is actually a cup seal..or a backless "O-ring"
that has a skirt around it that faces the pressure side of the piston
and opens up and seals around the piston. about 1.25 x .125x .125

I dont have one. And Im not going to find one at the AutoZone. I
might...might find one in Bakersfield..but its one Ive never seen
before. Laying in the groove, looked like a square profile seal..but is
open on the backside and it had failed enough not to allow enough
pressure to build up in the pressure side of the piston/cylinder of the
drive controller.

Question...think an o ring will do the job? Or should I hunt down the
proper seal next week?

Obviously Im not going to get the lathe in full operation until I
replace that seal. Tried to gentle it out..and it started to
disintergrate..so it was well past time

Any suggestions? Or should I just bite the bullet and wait until I find
the proper seal?

I know some of you have rebuilt Clausing hydraulic vari drives
before...so I thought Id ask

Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

Gunner Asch wrote:

Question...think an o ring will do the job? Or should I hunt down the
proper seal next week?

Check mcmaster carr. I got all my orings and seals from them exept one that was on
backorder that applied had an earlier delivery date.

Based on your data look at 9505K23 on Page 3466 of their online cataloge.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 05:05:25 -0400, Wes
wrote:

9505K23


Oooh..your good! Ill remeasure in the morning..but I think you snagged
it!

Thanks!

Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 03:41:00 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 05:05:25 -0400, Wes
wrote:

9505K23

I just went out and measured the groove....1.360 diameter
Piston is 1.114 diameter.

Width is about .125ish (nothing small enough to get in there (making
note to find a small mic for this sort of thing)

This works out in metric to be about 34.6 mm for the groove and 28.32
mm for the piston

I dont know how to spec seals.

Can you tell me how to calculate fits for seals?

No idea of what the working pressure is. Probably a few hundred pounds
max.

Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 03:41:00 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 05:05:25 -0400, Wes
wrote:

9505K23

I just went out and measured the groove....1.360 diameter
Piston is 1.114 diameter.

Width is about .125ish (nothing small enough to get in there (making
note to find a small mic for this sort of thing)

This works out in metric to be about 34.6 mm for the groove and 28.32
mm for the piston

I dont know how to spec seals.

Can you tell me how to calculate fits for seals?

No idea of what the working pressure is. Probably a few hundred pounds
max.

Suggest at those low pressures and minimal motion you can just use an
O-ring for now and chase the proper seal when you have time. I've seen
plenty of higher pressure (3,000 PSI+) items that seal just fine with
O-rings.

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 09:03:22 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 03:41:00 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 05:05:25 -0400, Wes
wrote:

9505K23

I just went out and measured the groove....1.360 diameter
Piston is 1.114 diameter.

Width is about .125ish (nothing small enough to get in there (making
note to find a small mic for this sort of thing)

This works out in metric to be about 34.6 mm for the groove and 28.32
mm for the piston

I dont know how to spec seals.

Can you tell me how to calculate fits for seals?

No idea of what the working pressure is. Probably a few hundred pounds
max.

Suggest at those low pressures and minimal motion you can just use an
O-ring for now and chase the proper seal when you have time. I've seen
plenty of higher pressure (3,000 PSI+) items that seal just fine with
O-rings.


Thanks Pete. Ill read a few more posts and see what the rest of the guys
say and then probably put in an O-ring as you say.

I may not make a machine "pretty", but when I fix something, I like to
do it right. But if an O-ring will work..this will get me running.

Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 03:41:00 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 05:05:25 -0400, Wes
wrote:

9505K23

I just went out and measured the groove....1.360 diameter
Piston is 1.114 diameter.

Width is about .125ish (nothing small enough to get in there (making
note to find a small mic for this sort of thing)

This works out in metric to be about 34.6 mm for the groove and 28.32
mm for the piston

I dont know how to spec seals.

Can you tell me how to calculate fits for seals?

No idea of what the working pressure is. Probably a few hundred pounds
max.

Clausing's prices on seals are not that bad, so I'd check prices before
reengineering.

Joe Gwinn

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:05:51 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 03:41:00 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 05:05:25 -0400, Wes
wrote:

9505K23

I just went out and measured the groove....1.360 diameter
Piston is 1.114 diameter.

Width is about .125ish (nothing small enough to get in there (making
note to find a small mic for this sort of thing)

This works out in metric to be about 34.6 mm for the groove and 28.32
mm for the piston

I dont know how to spec seals.

Can you tell me how to calculate fits for seals?

No idea of what the working pressure is. Probably a few hundred pounds
max.

Clausing's prices on seals are not that bad, so I'd check prices before
reengineering.

Joe Gwinn

I wasnt going to recut anything, just find something local. We are
fairly "industrial" in the Bakersfield area..oil fields..lots of
hydraulics.

I only need that one seal. Based on the rest of their prices..I figured
it would cost $20 or something. Plus $20 shipping...choke....

Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:05:51 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 03:41:00 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 05:05:25 -0400, Wes
wrote:

9505K23

I just went out and measured the groove....1.360 diameter
Piston is 1.114 diameter.

Width is about .125ish (nothing small enough to get in there (making
note to find a small mic for this sort of thing)

This works out in metric to be about 34.6 mm for the groove and 28.32
mm for the piston

I dont know how to spec seals.

Can you tell me how to calculate fits for seals?

No idea of what the working pressure is. Probably a few hundred pounds
max.

Clausing's prices on seals are not that bad, so I'd check prices before
reengineering.

Joe Gwinn

I wasnt going to recut anything, just find something local. We are
fairly "industrial" in the Bakersfield area..oil fields..lots of
hydraulics.

I only need that one seal. Based on the rest of their prices..I figured
it would cost $20 or something. Plus $20 shipping...choke....

I rebuilt the 5900 hydraulics with less than $10 in rubber parts from Clausing,
if I recall. They didn't have a seals kit per se for the 5900, but they knew
which parts to use. I had looked it up in the manual, and they had it right.

Anyway, while metal parts from Clausing can be amazingly costly (but not in
Monarch territory), they don't seem to try to pay the rent on seals. I would
just call and ask.

Joe Gwinn

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 16:39:57 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:05:51 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 03:41:00 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 05:05:25 -0400, Wes
wrote:

9505K23

I just went out and measured the groove....1.360 diameter
Piston is 1.114 diameter.

Width is about .125ish (nothing small enough to get in there (making
note to find a small mic for this sort of thing)

This works out in metric to be about 34.6 mm for the groove and 28.32
mm for the piston

I dont know how to spec seals.

Can you tell me how to calculate fits for seals?

No idea of what the working pressure is. Probably a few hundred pounds
max.

Clausing's prices on seals are not that bad, so I'd check prices before
reengineering.

Joe Gwinn

I wasnt going to recut anything, just find something local. We are
fairly "industrial" in the Bakersfield area..oil fields..lots of
hydraulics.

I only need that one seal. Based on the rest of their prices..I figured
it would cost $20 or something. Plus $20 shipping...choke....

I rebuilt the 5900 hydraulics with less than $10 in rubber parts from Clausing,
if I recall. They didn't have a seals kit per se for the 5900, but they knew
which parts to use. I had looked it up in the manual, and they had it right.

Anyway, while metal parts from Clausing can be amazingly costly (but not in
Monarch territory), they don't seem to try to pay the rent on seals. I would
just call and ask.

Joe Gwinn

Ill do that Monday!

Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

On 2010-08-28, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:05:51 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

[ ... ]

Clausing's prices on seals are not that bad, so I'd check prices before
reengineering.

Joe Gwinn

I wasnt going to recut anything, just find something local. We are
fairly "industrial" in the Bakersfield area..oil fields..lots of
hydraulics.

I only need that one seal. Based on the rest of their prices..I figured
it would cost $20 or something. Plus $20 shipping...choke....

I rebuilt the 5900 hydraulics with less than $10 in rubber parts from Clausing,
if I recall. They didn't have a seals kit per se for the 5900, but they knew
which parts to use. I had looked it up in the manual, and they had it right.

Anyway, while metal parts from Clausing can be amazingly costly (but not in
Monarch territory), they don't seem to try to pay the rent on seals. I would
just call and ask.

Based on experience, they appear to machine (or order out for
custom machining) a new stock of a part like a gear once the last one is
sold -- and that is when the price jumps.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 29 Aug 2010 03:58:34 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2010-08-28, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 28 Aug 2010 12:05:51 -0400, Joseph Gwinn
wrote:

[ ... ]

Clausing's prices on seals are not that bad, so I'd check prices before
reengineering.

Joe Gwinn

I wasnt going to recut anything, just find something local. We are
fairly "industrial" in the Bakersfield area..oil fields..lots of
hydraulics.

I only need that one seal. Based on the rest of their prices..I figured
it would cost $20 or something. Plus $20 shipping...choke....

I rebuilt the 5900 hydraulics with less than $10 in rubber parts from Clausing,
if I recall. They didn't have a seals kit per se for the 5900, but they knew
which parts to use. I had looked it up in the manual, and they had it right.

Anyway, while metal parts from Clausing can be amazingly costly (but not in
Monarch territory), they don't seem to try to pay the rent on seals. I would
just call and ask.

Based on experience, they appear to machine (or order out for
custom machining) a new stock of a part like a gear once the last one is
sold -- and that is when the price jumps.

Enjoy,
DoN.

I went out this evening and sorted through the large bag of O-rings and
other similar seals that a Much Beloved fellow (name unknown..stroke
effect) sent me some years ago and found a pair of matching O rings
that would fit in the space of the seal that was hor'douvor, in the
Vari-Drive actuator on the lathe. Installed them side by side,,
assembled and installed.

I pumped and bled for about 5 minutes and suddenly there was a loud
BURRRP and a huge gasp of air came out of the filler spout for the
actuators reservoir..and I started getting some action on the vari
drive. Another few minutes and the lathe is going from max to
slow..2000-396 in high range with a smooth turn of the vari-drive
handle.

I then chucked up a chunk of hardened 4140 about 3" in diameter..and
running at what the dial says was 400 rpm...put negative rake cutter to
metal...... and the chips flew! Yay verily..They flew! Bright and
shiney metal in the wake of that devilishly sharp and wicked cutter!
Black spirals of cut metal running away from the whirling interface of
carbide cutter and spinning metal! Oh Yes! Thank you Crom! Your Will
be Done!!! Hardened 4140 is MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Spinning the velocity lever higher and higher..I brutally fed the cutter
deeper and deeper into that spinning blob of cruely hardened metal...and
she cut! She CUT!!! Buahahahaha!! And she cut Dry!! Oh Yeaha!!

Oh Great Crom..I have a veritible Brute of a lathe!! Yes!

Now Ive got to jack the whole beasty up, pour a pair of small slabs
under the two "feet" that hold the Instrument of Crom out of the
dust..making sure they are level and matching! and after the pour is
dry..gently set both ends back down, then level the ways carefully!

Though seriously..Im not sure how deep I can cut and not knock out that
5hp rotary phase converter. Ill have to put an amp meter on the leads
and determine what load is drawing what amps. Ive got 30 amp fuses on
the output of the RPC...which is about right for 5hp..give or take a
few. Id rather not..not knock out that RPC..I dont have another. And
while I do have a 5hp spare VFD...Id rather not use it for this
application.

Thanks guys for your input!

Gunner, with yet another machine running in his shop thats been long
abandoned..and neglected, praise be to Crom!!!





I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

Gunner Asch wrote:

Now Ive got to jack the whole beasty up, pour a pair of small slabs
under the two "feet" that hold the Instrument of Crom out of the
dust..making sure they are level and matching! and after the pour is
dry..gently set both ends back down, then level the ways carefully!


Most of us put concrete slabs under the entire shop. Is this some California thing?

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Sun, 29 Aug 2010 20:03:27 -0400, Wes
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

Now Ive got to jack the whole beasty up, pour a pair of small slabs
under the two "feet" that hold the Instrument of Crom out of the
dust..making sure they are level and matching! and after the pour is
dry..gently set both ends back down, then level the ways carefully!


Most of us put concrete slabs under the entire shop. Is this some California thing?

Wes

Yes, as a matter of fact..it is. Simple split level machine shop.

The fact of the matter is..is my shop is a converted "car port". When I
built the place..I didnt have the money to level the car port..which
falls some 20 inches in 60 feet. The property is on a very moderate
hillside so it slopes in (2) directions. It was more important to me to
have the house higher than the yard by a foot or more. It rains only
4-5" TOTAL here per year. But it generally happens in one or two rain
storms. Hence water doesnt soak in..but tends to flood, and badly if
one doesnt plan ones property well.

Back in 85..the last thing I thought Id be doing in there..is
machining. Shrug

Ive been slowly getting more and more involved in machining as I get
older. Ive got windsurfers hanging on racks above the mills. Ive not
windsurfed in at least 5 yrs..... least of all since they split my chest
some 18 months ago.

And of course..the cost of concrete here is more than most places,
though less than others.

Whenever I get a machine tool I plan on keeping..once I figure out where
it will rest..then I ponder for a while..then pour a slab under it.
Hence the Hardinge HLV-H has a slab, a couple of the work benches have
slabs and so forth.

Its hard to plan, when one buys, trades and upgrades machinery every
year. My first lathe was a Logan 11" clunker. A bad one. But..it gave
me the bug.

Its been a rather interesting 10 yrs, going from a simple buzzbox stick
welder and a very worn and crappy Logan lathe..to the accumulation of
Stuff I have have on hand now. Too much stuff of some sorts..shrug.
But..its paid for the hobby along with a few bills here and there.

Im NOT a machinist, nor am I a welder. However..I can do both to some
degree...its fun, its relaxing, it allows me to make a couple dollars
here and there at times.

Shrug...and then there is the economy. Ive made at most so far this year
at my regular job...$12,000. At most. Too many clients are now empty
buildings. Shrug

So Ive been puttering around in the shop, getting stuff running, trying
to sell off a bit of this and that locally, with some sucess. And Ive
been teaching some of the local kids to weld, and to machine. Helps keep
me busy, my skills level improve..which is important after that
stroke...and it fills time.


Gunner


I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)

On 2010-08-29, Gunner Asch wrote:
On 29 Aug 2010 03:58:34 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2010-08-28, Joseph Gwinn wrote:

[ ... ]

Anyway, while metal parts from Clausing can be amazingly costly (but not in
Monarch territory), they don't seem to try to pay the rent on seals. I would
just call and ask.

Based on experience, they appear to machine (or order out for
custom machining) a new stock of a part like a gear once the last one is
sold -- and that is when the price jumps.

[ ... ]

I went out this evening and sorted through the large bag of O-rings and
other similar seals that a Much Beloved fellow (name unknown..stroke

[ ... ]

drive. Another few minutes and the lathe is going from max to
slow..2000-396 in high range with a smooth turn of the vari-drive
handle.

Great!

I then chucked up a chunk of hardened 4140 about 3" in diameter..and
running at what the dial says was 400 rpm...put negative rake cutter to
metal...... and the chips flew! Yay verily..They flew! Bright and
shiney metal in the wake of that devilishly sharp and wicked cutter!
Black spirals of cut metal running away from the whirling interface of
carbide cutter and spinning metal! Oh Yes! Thank you Crom! Your Will
be Done!!! Hardened 4140 is MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Impressive!

Spinning the velocity lever higher and higher..I brutally fed the cutter
deeper and deeper into that spinning blob of cruely hardened metal...and
she cut! She CUT!!! Buahahahaha!! And she cut Dry!! Oh Yeaha!!

Oh Great Crom..I have a veritible Brute of a lathe!! Yes!

:-)

Now Ive got to jack the whole beasty up, pour a pair of small slabs
under the two "feet" that hold the Instrument of Crom out of the
dust..making sure they are level and matching! and after the pour is
dry..gently set both ends back down, then level the ways carefully!

Though seriously..Im not sure how deep I can cut and not knock out that
5hp rotary phase converter. Ill have to put an amp meter on the leads
and determine what load is drawing what amps. Ive got 30 amp fuses on
the output of the RPC...which is about right for 5hp..give or take a
few. Id rather not..not knock out that RPC..I dont have another. And
while I do have a 5hp spare VFD...Id rather not use it for this
application.

Did you tune the converter -- and then tune the power factor of
the converter running unloaded? Those -- especially that last one --
will make a difference as to when the breaker or fuse pops.

You might want to check again with the lathe taking a heavy cut
and see what the power factor looks like then. Perhaps a power factor
tune somewhere between unloaded converter and heavily loaded converter.
Of course, this will need someone else to read the meter -- and to try
switching in and out extra caps to look for minimum single-phase
current.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 30 Aug 2010 03:43:06 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2010-08-29, Gunner Asch wrote:
On 29 Aug 2010 03:58:34 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2010-08-28, Joseph Gwinn wrote:

[ ... ]

Anyway, while metal parts from Clausing can be amazingly costly (but not in
Monarch territory), they don't seem to try to pay the rent on seals. I would
just call and ask.

Based on experience, they appear to machine (or order out for
custom machining) a new stock of a part like a gear once the last one is
sold -- and that is when the price jumps.

[ ... ]

I went out this evening and sorted through the large bag of O-rings and
other similar seals that a Much Beloved fellow (name unknown..stroke

[ ... ]

drive. Another few minutes and the lathe is going from max to
slow..2000-396 in high range with a smooth turn of the vari-drive
handle.

Great!

I then chucked up a chunk of hardened 4140 about 3" in diameter..and
running at what the dial says was 400 rpm...put negative rake cutter to
metal...... and the chips flew! Yay verily..They flew! Bright and
shiney metal in the wake of that devilishly sharp and wicked cutter!
Black spirals of cut metal running away from the whirling interface of
carbide cutter and spinning metal! Oh Yes! Thank you Crom! Your Will
be Done!!! Hardened 4140 is MINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Impressive!

Spinning the velocity lever higher and higher..I brutally fed the cutter
deeper and deeper into that spinning blob of cruely hardened metal...and
she cut! She CUT!!! Buahahahaha!! And she cut Dry!! Oh Yeaha!!

Oh Great Crom..I have a veritible Brute of a lathe!! Yes!

:-)

Now Ive got to jack the whole beasty up, pour a pair of small slabs
under the two "feet" that hold the Instrument of Crom out of the
dust..making sure they are level and matching! and after the pour is
dry..gently set both ends back down, then level the ways carefully!

Though seriously..Im not sure how deep I can cut and not knock out that
5hp rotary phase converter. Ill have to put an amp meter on the leads
and determine what load is drawing what amps. Ive got 30 amp fuses on
the output of the RPC...which is about right for 5hp..give or take a
few. Id rather not..not knock out that RPC..I dont have another. And
while I do have a 5hp spare VFD...Id rather not use it for this
application.

Did you tune the converter -- and then tune the power factor of
the converter running unloaded? Those -- especially that last one --
will make a difference as to when the breaker or fuse pops.

You might want to check again with the lathe taking a heavy cut
and see what the power factor looks like then. Perhaps a power factor
tune somewhere between unloaded converter and heavily loaded converter.
Of course, this will need someone else to read the meter -- and to try
switching in and out extra caps to look for minimum single-phase
current.

Enjoy,
DoN.

My RPC has no caps in it. Its a commercial unit..at least 30 yrs old.
Looks exactly like an electric motor with 2 leads going in..and 3 coming
out. "State Electric" or some such. Ive seen others similar over the
years in various shops.

Ive got 2 legs of 245vt and one leg of 215vts, with 245 input. Pacific
Greed and Extortion tends to send me a bit more juice than I really care
to have. Its put my PC3 vfd into alarm more than one time with a "High
Voltage" fault.

I smoked one of the windings..well actually the connections to the
windings a couple years ago, when I plugged in that big Airco 3ph Mig to
test it. Got a bit carried away and started raising up the dial until
Poof!

But it was easy to repair..then. Ive been a big worried about it ever
since.

So far, Ive buried the cutter and it still ran fine, and I put it on a
3ph 20amp circuit breaker "just in case"

Gunner




I am the Sword of my Family
and the Shield of my Nation.
If sent, I will crush everything you have built,
burn everything you love,
and kill every one of you.
(Hebrew quote)