Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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  #11   Report Post  
Old August 18th 10, 06:58 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default High speed spindle

On 2010-08-18, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Ignoramus11933" wrote in message
...
As I was messing around with text engraving, I realized that it would
be very cool to have a high speed spindle.

There is, apparently, a wide variety of purpose made and adapted
devices that are used for this:

http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCHighSpeedSpindleAddOn.htm

The best so far, looks to be this:


http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/Other...Manifold_1.jpg

This is a Bosch Colt palm router attached to the quill. It seems to be
nicely made, and low profile.

In my case, I can use a changeable toolholder to do the attaching, so
that it is easy to take off:

http://www.shars.com/products/view/1...nd_Mill_Holder

This way, I could run a 1/8" end mill at 30,000 RPM, without using the
main mill's spindle bearings. I would use a brake to hold this
assembly in the quill.

It would be, as I said, a quick change setup, easy to be swapped
out. I would just need to figure out a safety interlock mechanism, so
that the main spindle would not be turned on accidentally with this
thing mounted.

It would seem that a holder is easy to make from 6061 or some such,
and the whole project can be done under $200.

I engraved some text yesterday, which took something like 19
minutes. I did it at 2,400 RPM. At 30,000 RPM, it could take only 1.5-2
minutes.


I guess it depends on what you mean by engraving. Engraving is usually done
with a spring loaded bit holder that is dragged (not spinning) along the
surface of the material. This allows for engraving some surfaces that are
not perfectly uniform and even to some degree engraving curved surfaces. I
engraved the side of some larger sockets to see how far I could push it with
mine. You can make your own spring loaded engraver with whatever size shaft
is desirable. I would use a lathe, but if you have very low backlash or
have backlash compensation programmed well in your control software you
could do it on your CNC mill. If you don't want to make one there are
atleast two different people selling them on Ebay. Dremel actually sells a
decent tungsten conical point and a conical diamond dust point pretty cheap
that work nicely in my drag engraver.

If you meant to "mill out" letters and only do it rarely then find yourself
a high speed cutter of some kind and make your own mounting bracket for it.
I'm using a couple motors and handpieces right now, but the first link
Gunner listed is a nice example of one using a die grinder. Run out of your
bit or mill holder will determine how small a cutter and/or how fast you can
feed without breaking them. If you don't plan to use it often there are
some pretty cheap drive solutions out there. A decent quality trim router
turns at about 28,000 rpm and has a lot of power.

I would love to have one of those super high speed spindles that just go
right into the mill like a collet, but they are expensive. Of course I
would have to have a machine that would take them. LOL.

I look forward to seeing your ultimate solution.




What I means was using a small end mill to mill various shapes, such
as text (as in making panels), or 3D patterns, like toys.

I think that this Bosch Colt palm router is the nicest cheap high
speed motor, because:

1) It is relatively compact (unlike those die grinders), so I can
mount it next to the quill and I do not need a lot of headroom for it.
2) It is a Bosch
3) It has a high horsepower (compared to alternatives)
4) It has variable speed
5) It has a very nice straight round neck for mounting
6) It is only $100-116.
7) It has a 1/4" collet.

i

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Old August 18th 10, 06:59 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default High speed spindle

On 2010-08-18, Pete C. wrote:
Actually, most engraving *is* done with a rotating bit, usually fixed,
but sometimes in a spring loaded mount. All the plastic signs and
nameplates you see are engraved with a rotary bit. Most engraving on
stuff like anodized AL is also rotary cut (or lasered). Drag engraving
is the exception, not the norm.

Iggy will find a high speed spindle and a nice carbide rotary engraving
bit work nicely to engrave lettering and markings on aluminum or plastic
enclosures which can be paint filled for a very nice result.


Which brings up a question, how do you paint fill them? What paint etc

i
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Old August 18th 10, 07:24 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default High speed spindle

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 12:49:36 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 11:43:47 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Ignoramus11933 wrote:

As I was messing around with text engraving, I realized that it would
be very cool to have a high speed spindle.

There is, apparently, a wide variety of purpose made and adapted
devices that are used for this:

http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCHighSpeedSpindleAddOn.htm

The best so far, looks to be this:

http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/Other...Manifold_1.jpg

This is a Bosch Colt palm router attached to the quill. It seems to be
nicely made, and low profile.

In my case, I can use a changeable toolholder to do the attaching, so
that it is easy to take off:

http://www.shars.com/products/view/1...nd_Mill_Holder

This way, I could run a 1/8" end mill at 30,000 RPM, without using the
main mill's spindle bearings. I would use a brake to hold this
assembly in the quill.

It would be, as I said, a quick change setup, easy to be swapped
out. I would just need to figure out a safety interlock mechanism, so
that the main spindle would not be turned on accidentally with this
thing mounted.

It would seem that a holder is easy to make from 6061 or some such,
and the whole project can be done under $200.

I engraved some text yesterday, which took something like 19
minutes. I did it at 2,400 RPM. At 30,000 RPM, it could take only 1.5-2
minutes.

i

That palm router setup is nice. I like the idea of the pencil air
grinder though, you could install one in a modified end mill holder and
run the air line up through your unused draw bar hole which would mean
no offset from the normal spindle location to deal with.


That leaves no place for his spindle encoder and a rotating air
connection at the top of the spindle.


Sure it does, his encoder will operate just as well on a hollow shaft as
on a solid one...


Not if its plugged into the top of the spindle with an expanding
arbor......


--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost
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Old August 18th 10, 07:26 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default High speed spindle

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 12:53:49 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote:


Bob La Londe wrote:

"Ignoramus11933" wrote in message
...
As I was messing around with text engraving, I realized that it would
be very cool to have a high speed spindle.

There is, apparently, a wide variety of purpose made and adapted
devices that are used for this:

http://www.cnccookbook.com/CCHighSpeedSpindleAddOn.htm

The best so far, looks to be this:


http://www.cnccookbook.com/img/Other...Manifold_1.jpg

This is a Bosch Colt palm router attached to the quill. It seems to be
nicely made, and low profile.

In my case, I can use a changeable toolholder to do the attaching, so
that it is easy to take off:

http://www.shars.com/products/view/1...nd_Mill_Holder

This way, I could run a 1/8" end mill at 30,000 RPM, without using the
main mill's spindle bearings. I would use a brake to hold this
assembly in the quill.

It would be, as I said, a quick change setup, easy to be swapped
out. I would just need to figure out a safety interlock mechanism, so
that the main spindle would not be turned on accidentally with this
thing mounted.

It would seem that a holder is easy to make from 6061 or some such,
and the whole project can be done under $200.

I engraved some text yesterday, which took something like 19
minutes. I did it at 2,400 RPM. At 30,000 RPM, it could take only 1.5-2
minutes.


I guess it depends on what you mean by engraving. Engraving is usually done
with a spring loaded bit holder that is dragged (not spinning) along the
surface of the material.


Actually, most engraving *is* done with a rotating bit, usually fixed,
but sometimes in a spring loaded mount. All the plastic signs and
nameplates you see are engraved with a rotary bit. Most engraving on
stuff like anodized AL is also rotary cut (or lasered). Drag engraving
is the exception, not the norm.

Iggy will find a high speed spindle and a nice carbide rotary engraving
bit work nicely to engrave lettering and markings on aluminum or plastic
enclosures which can be paint filled for a very nice result.


Indeed. Pete is quite correct. A single flute cutter is most often used.

See Ebay ..search terms Gorton Cutter or Gorton Engraver followed by
engraving cutter

Gunner, with a Gorton 3-Z pantograph

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost
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Old August 18th 10, 07:31 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 25
Default High speed spindle

On Aug 18, 1:59*pm, Ignoramus28889 [email protected]
28889.invalid wrote:
On 2010-08-18, Pete C. wrote:

Actually, most engraving *is* done with a rotating bit, usually fixed,
but sometimes in a spring loaded mount. All the plastic signs and
nameplates you see are engraved with a rotary bit. Most engraving on
stuff like anodized AL is also rotary cut (or lasered). Drag engraving
is the exception, not the norm.


Iggy will find a high speed spindle and a nice carbide rotary engraving
bit work nicely to engrave lettering and markings on aluminum or plastic
enclosures which can be paint filled for a very nice result.


Which brings up a question, how do you paint fill them? What paint etc

i


When I was doing engraving (Gorton, Hermes, Green 106), I would use an
Enamel Paint Stick (tradename: Engravocolor Sticks).

It fills in the engraved lines with a medium-soft enamel, that would
harden.

_kevin


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Old August 18th 10, 08:09 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default High speed spindle

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 11:26:07 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:


Iggy will find a high speed spindle and a nice carbide rotary engraving
bit work nicely to engrave lettering and markings on aluminum or plastic
enclosures which can be paint filled for a very nice result.


Indeed. Pete is quite correct. A single flute cutter is most often used.

See Ebay ..search terms Gorton Cutter or Gorton Engraver followed by
engraving cutter


http://cgi.ebay.com/PCB-CARBIDE-ENGR...-/370349200329
http://cgi.ebay.com/10-cnc-router-bl...-/160463849218
http://cgi.ebay.com/CARBIDE-TIN-COAT...-/270239554051
http://cgi.ebay.com/5x-CNC-Carbide-E...-/180519440864

Its likely Iggy can find cutters cheaper at some of his auctions or from
some of his contacts from the auctions.


Gunner



--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost
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Old August 18th 10, 09:36 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 3,286
Default High speed spindle

....
That leaves no place for his spindle encoder and a rotating air
connection at the top of the spindle.


Sure it does, his encoder will operate just as well on a hollow shaft as
on a solid one...


Not if its plugged into the top of the spindle with an expanding
arbor......


yep, me thinks Iggy be making a mistake to lose his hollow spindle
just for an encoder. There are ways around it.


I see this thread hasn't mentioned spindle speeders. I use a unit that
mounts just like any other tool and the ouput shaft turns 6X the input
with a set of small collets. Scored mine on the bay for $200 and
change.

Karl

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Old August 18th 10, 09:55 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default High speed spindle

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:36:17 -0500, Karl Townsend
wrote:

...
That leaves no place for his spindle encoder and a rotating air
connection at the top of the spindle.

Sure it does, his encoder will operate just as well on a hollow shaft as
on a solid one...


Not if its plugged into the top of the spindle with an expanding
arbor......


yep, me thinks Iggy be making a mistake to lose his hollow spindle
just for an encoder. There are ways around it.


I see this thread hasn't mentioned spindle speeders. I use a unit that
mounts just like any other tool and the ouput shaft turns 6X the input
with a set of small collets. Scored mine on the bay for $200 and
change.

Karl


I thought I included at least one in the links I provided.

On the Gorton mill Im currently using...my top spindle speed is 5000 rpm
So it will push one of those for up to 30k rpm

Gunner

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost
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Old August 18th 10, 09:58 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 23
Default High speed spindle

On 2010-08-18, Karl Townsend wrote:
...
That leaves no place for his spindle encoder and a rotating air
connection at the top of the spindle.

Sure it does, his encoder will operate just as well on a hollow shaft as
on a solid one...


Not if its plugged into the top of the spindle with an expanding
arbor......


yep, me thinks Iggy be making a mistake to lose his hollow spindle
just for an encoder. There are ways around it.


I see this thread hasn't mentioned spindle speeders. I use a unit that
mounts just like any other tool and the ouput shaft turns 6X the input
with a set of small collets. Scored mine on the bay for $200 and
change.


That stuff is harder to find in NMTB 30. Lots of it in 40-50 taper.

i
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Old August 18th 10, 10:17 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default High speed spindle

On Wed, 18 Aug 2010 15:58:41 -0500, Ignoramus28889
wrote:

On 2010-08-18, Karl Townsend wrote:
...
That leaves no place for his spindle encoder and a rotating air
connection at the top of the spindle.

Sure it does, his encoder will operate just as well on a hollow shaft as
on a solid one...

Not if its plugged into the top of the spindle with an expanding
arbor......


yep, me thinks Iggy be making a mistake to lose his hollow spindle
just for an encoder. There are ways around it.


I see this thread hasn't mentioned spindle speeders. I use a unit that
mounts just like any other tool and the ouput shaft turns 6X the input
with a set of small collets. Scored mine on the bay for $200 and
change.


That stuff is harder to find in NMTB 30. Lots of it in 40-50 taper.

i


$5 CNC mills are hard to find too..but..as you proved..they are around
G

Gunner

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost


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