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Question about building controls for a mill
Gunner Asch wrote: Im at the point where its time to finish out the Larios horizontal mill taking up space in my shop. The original control panel, used switches to: master power On/off Spindle High/Off/Low Spindle CW/off/CCW Table Left/off/Right Coolant pump on/off The issues are Motor is two speed, with 2 seperate 3ph windings for high and low Table is single speed 3ph motor and reversed winding power for opposite direction. The switches are toast. Finito. Bad. Blown, Kaput. No replacement. Endit The table has a mechanical Rapid that works the opposite of the feed direction..whatever the feed direction is. So you can make a cut, rapid back to the start and hit her again. I scrounged up some bat handle 3 phase switches..but I cant see any way to make them do the above, without having a ****load of them hanging off the side of the machine. So I got an 18x 22" electrical box, mounted it to the side of the machine and mounted fuses, a control transformer, and gutted a Hardinge control cabinet for the contactors. Ill mount the control switches on the top of the cabinet, where there is easy access. Spindle has a clutch lever to engage/disengage as does the table feed. The issue Im having is...will I ever need to run the table in the opposite direction visa vis the spindle rotation? I do have the vertical attachment..but ever mounting it is unlikely . Shrug Or can I simply ignore having the ability to feed in a direction opposite the normal direction when feeding into a horizontal mill cutter? Climb milling in other words? Is climb milling all that important on such a mill? Im having something of a mental block on this...I can see it..but dont know that Id ever climb mill. The machine IS very tight and can do climb easily without any issues. But will I ever need to do it? If I put in a contactor for reversing the table...its gonna get really crowded in that box. Its doable, shrug..but is it something I should do? I suppose not needing a reversable spindle would be the second issue...hummm...that would save me even more space. Having to install a reversing relay..and then taking two more contactors to power either the high or the low windings....getting involved here.... Im not all that experienced on the actual nuts and bolt operations of horizontal millers beyond the basics. Any suggestions...anyone? Those switches you scrounged are the modular industrial variety where you stack various contact blocks together to build the switch you need? If so, you just need to scrounge the contact blocks to build them up equivalent to the originals. |
Question about building controls for a mill
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 06:04:29 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: Im at the point where its time to finish out the Larios horizontal mill taking up space in my shop. The original control panel, used switches to: master power On/off Spindle High/Off/Low Spindle CW/off/CCW Table Left/off/Right Coolant pump on/off The issues are Motor is two speed, with 2 seperate 3ph windings for high and low Table is single speed 3ph motor and reversed winding power for opposite direction. The switches are toast. Finito. Bad. Blown, Kaput. No replacement. Endit The table has a mechanical Rapid that works the opposite of the feed direction..whatever the feed direction is. So you can make a cut, rapid back to the start and hit her again. I scrounged up some bat handle 3 phase switches..but I cant see any way to make them do the above, without having a ****load of them hanging off the side of the machine. So I got an 18x 22" electrical box, mounted it to the side of the machine and mounted fuses, a control transformer, and gutted a Hardinge control cabinet for the contactors. Ill mount the control switches on the top of the cabinet, where there is easy access. Spindle has a clutch lever to engage/disengage as does the table feed. The issue Im having is...will I ever need to run the table in the opposite direction visa vis the spindle rotation? I do have the vertical attachment..but ever mounting it is unlikely . Shrug Or can I simply ignore having the ability to feed in a direction opposite the normal direction when feeding into a horizontal mill cutter? Climb milling in other words? Is climb milling all that important on such a mill? Im having something of a mental block on this...I can see it..but dont know that Id ever climb mill. The machine IS very tight and can do climb easily without any issues. But will I ever need to do it? If I put in a contactor for reversing the table...its gonna get really crowded in that box. Its doable, shrug..but is it something I should do? I suppose not needing a reversable spindle would be the second issue...hummm...that would save me even more space. Having to install a reversing relay..and then taking two more contactors to power either the high or the low windings....getting involved here.... Im not all that experienced on the actual nuts and bolt operations of horizontal millers beyond the basics. Any suggestions...anyone? Those switches you scrounged are the modular industrial variety where you stack various contact blocks together to build the switch you need? If so, you just need to scrounge the contact blocks to build them up equivalent to the originals. All the motors, except for the 110vt coolant pump..are 3ph. The switches are brand new Allan Bradleys that I bought several years ago on ebay. The original switches were very special, with oversized contacts and so forth, and they switched the 3ph directly, rather than using contactors. Ive never seen anything similar anywhere..and I do fix machinery for a living. But thanks anyways. Gunner -- "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost |
Question about building controls for a mill
Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 06:04:29 -0500, "Pete C." wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: Im at the point where its time to finish out the Larios horizontal mill taking up space in my shop. The original control panel, used switches to: master power On/off Spindle High/Off/Low Spindle CW/off/CCW Table Left/off/Right Coolant pump on/off The issues are Motor is two speed, with 2 seperate 3ph windings for high and low Table is single speed 3ph motor and reversed winding power for opposite direction. The switches are toast. Finito. Bad. Blown, Kaput. No replacement. Endit The table has a mechanical Rapid that works the opposite of the feed direction..whatever the feed direction is. So you can make a cut, rapid back to the start and hit her again. I scrounged up some bat handle 3 phase switches..but I cant see any way to make them do the above, without having a ****load of them hanging off the side of the machine. So I got an 18x 22" electrical box, mounted it to the side of the machine and mounted fuses, a control transformer, and gutted a Hardinge control cabinet for the contactors. Ill mount the control switches on the top of the cabinet, where there is easy access. Spindle has a clutch lever to engage/disengage as does the table feed. The issue Im having is...will I ever need to run the table in the opposite direction visa vis the spindle rotation? I do have the vertical attachment..but ever mounting it is unlikely . Shrug Or can I simply ignore having the ability to feed in a direction opposite the normal direction when feeding into a horizontal mill cutter? Climb milling in other words? Is climb milling all that important on such a mill? Im having something of a mental block on this...I can see it..but dont know that Id ever climb mill. The machine IS very tight and can do climb easily without any issues. But will I ever need to do it? If I put in a contactor for reversing the table...its gonna get really crowded in that box. Its doable, shrug..but is it something I should do? I suppose not needing a reversable spindle would be the second issue...hummm...that would save me even more space. Having to install a reversing relay..and then taking two more contactors to power either the high or the low windings....getting involved here.... Im not all that experienced on the actual nuts and bolt operations of horizontal millers beyond the basics. Any suggestions...anyone? Those switches you scrounged are the modular industrial variety where you stack various contact blocks together to build the switch you need? If so, you just need to scrounge the contact blocks to build them up equivalent to the originals. All the motors, except for the 110vt coolant pump..are 3ph. The switches are brand new Allan Bradleys that I bought several years ago on ebay. The original switches were very special, with oversized contacts and so forth, and they switched the 3ph directly, rather than using contactors. Ive never seen anything similar anywhere..and I do fix machinery for a living. Lots of the industrial modular switches switch 3ph directly. What's the rating on the old switches? If you really can't find suitable contact blocks for the modular switches, then just stick a separate contactor box in some inaccessible spot on the machine. |
Question about building controls for a mill
Hmm, doesn't that Hardinge cabinet handle a reversing 2 speed motor
already? And how about a reversing drum switch for the spindle, ala Bridgeport spindle motor for your spindle motor? I'm trying to remember what all you described the functions as when you showed me that panel, but from what you describe here, I think you've got it covered? Oh, just reread your post, I thought you were using the Hardinge panel... Might be something to consider if it's not too big. Maybe hang it off the back of the mill? Jon |
Question about building controls for a mill
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 07:01:56 -0500, "Pete C."
wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 06:04:29 -0500, "Pete C." wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: Im at the point where its time to finish out the Larios horizontal mill taking up space in my shop. The original control panel, used switches to: master power On/off Spindle High/Off/Low Spindle CW/off/CCW Table Left/off/Right Coolant pump on/off The issues are Motor is two speed, with 2 seperate 3ph windings for high and low Table is single speed 3ph motor and reversed winding power for opposite direction. The switches are toast. Finito. Bad. Blown, Kaput. No replacement. Endit The table has a mechanical Rapid that works the opposite of the feed direction..whatever the feed direction is. So you can make a cut, rapid back to the start and hit her again. I scrounged up some bat handle 3 phase switches..but I cant see any way to make them do the above, without having a ****load of them hanging off the side of the machine. So I got an 18x 22" electrical box, mounted it to the side of the machine and mounted fuses, a control transformer, and gutted a Hardinge control cabinet for the contactors. Ill mount the control switches on the top of the cabinet, where there is easy access. Spindle has a clutch lever to engage/disengage as does the table feed. The issue Im having is...will I ever need to run the table in the opposite direction visa vis the spindle rotation? I do have the vertical attachment..but ever mounting it is unlikely . Shrug Or can I simply ignore having the ability to feed in a direction opposite the normal direction when feeding into a horizontal mill cutter? Climb milling in other words? Is climb milling all that important on such a mill? Im having something of a mental block on this...I can see it..but dont know that Id ever climb mill. The machine IS very tight and can do climb easily without any issues. But will I ever need to do it? If I put in a contactor for reversing the table...its gonna get really crowded in that box. Its doable, shrug..but is it something I should do? I suppose not needing a reversable spindle would be the second issue...hummm...that would save me even more space. Having to install a reversing relay..and then taking two more contactors to power either the high or the low windings....getting involved here.... Im not all that experienced on the actual nuts and bolt operations of horizontal millers beyond the basics. Any suggestions...anyone? Those switches you scrounged are the modular industrial variety where you stack various contact blocks together to build the switch you need? If so, you just need to scrounge the contact blocks to build them up equivalent to the originals. All the motors, except for the 110vt coolant pump..are 3ph. The switches are brand new Allan Bradleys that I bought several years ago on ebay. The original switches were very special, with oversized contacts and so forth, and they switched the 3ph directly, rather than using contactors. Ive never seen anything similar anywhere..and I do fix machinery for a living. Lots of the industrial modular switches switch 3ph directly. What's the rating on the old switches? If you really can't find suitable contact blocks for the modular switches, then just stick a separate contactor box in some inaccessible spot on the machine. Thats what Ive done..put a contactor box on the machine...Im just asking for advice about how many contactors to stuff in it. Gunner -- "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost |
Question about building controls for a mill
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 07:13:38 -0800, Jon Anderson
wrote: Hmm, doesn't that Hardinge cabinet handle a reversing 2 speed motor already? And how about a reversing drum switch for the spindle, ala Bridgeport spindle motor for your spindle motor? I'm trying to remember what all you described the functions as when you showed me that panel, but from what you describe here, I think you've got it covered? Oh, just reread your post, I thought you were using the Hardinge panel... Might be something to consider if it's not too big. Maybe hang it off the back of the mill? Jon http://picasaweb.google.com/gunneras...72365921682802 -- "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost |
Question about building controls for a mill
Gunner Asch wrote:
The original switches were very special, with oversized contacts and so forth, and they switched the 3ph directly, rather than using contactors. Ive never seen anything similar anywhere..and I do fix machinery for a living. Well then you put switches in the control console and contactors in another box. That is what I would do. Wes -- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller |
Question about building controls for a mill
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 18:31:51 -0400, Wes
wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: The original switches were very special, with oversized contacts and so forth, and they switched the 3ph directly, rather than using contactors. Ive never seen anything similar anywhere..and I do fix machinery for a living. Well then you put switches in the control console and contactors in another box. That is what I would do. Wes http://picasaweb.google.com/gunneras...82029551420674 Please advise as to where the Control Console is? Gunner -- "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost |
Question about building controls for a mill
On Aug 17, 8:41*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 18:31:51 -0400, Wes wrote: http://picasaweb.google.com/gunneras...82029551420674 Please advise as to where the Control Console is? Gunner -- It done be wherever you gonna put it, since you are building the controls for the mill... |
Question about building controls for a mill
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 19:40:47 -0700 (PDT), Cross-Slide
wrote: On Aug 17, 8:41*pm, Gunner Asch wrote: On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 18:31:51 -0400, Wes wrote: http://picasaweb.google.com/gunneras...82029551420674 Please advise as to where the Control Console is? Gunner -- It done be wherever you gonna put it, since you are building the controls for the mill... Indeed. Gunner -- "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost |
Question about building controls for a mill
On Tue, 17 Aug 2010 12:10:10 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote: Thats what Ive done..put a contactor box on the machine...Im just asking for advice about how many contactors to stuff in it. I would think one per phase of electricalicity would be sufficient. YMMV. -- We're all here because we're not all there. |
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