Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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On 7/30/2010 10:42 PM, ATP wrote:
id wrote in message
...
On 2010-07-31, wrote:

id wrote in message
...
On 2010-07-31, wrote:

id wrote in message
...
On 2010-07-30, pyotr wrote:
Nope. An Estate Tax (or to call it more properly a Death Tax) is
why we get Paris Hilton. She knows she's not going to inherit it,
her
Daddy knows she's not going to inherit, so why not spend it as much
as
possible now, before it goes tot he tax man.

Excuse me?

Do you have a clue as to what you are talking about?

Transferring money to anyone (such as heir) as a gift, while alive,
subjects them to gift tax, which is very similar (and is designed to
supplant) estate tax.

Getting money from daddy when daddy is alive, is generally taxed the
same way as when daddy is dead.

I'd be surprised if the full value of the services, transportation,
clothing
etcetera consumed by Paris Hilton is accounted for and taxed.

Do you mean that what her dad pays for her clothing, is not taxed with
gift tax?

Good question.

i

Staying at family compounds, buying on family charge accounts, payments
for
bogus services, staff on family payroll, there are probably a lot of ways
to
prop up her lifestyle without gift taxes.


Hard to say, my guess is that she is too high profile to hide that
sort of thing.

i


Most of it is probably legal. Staying at your Dad's house or summer home is
not taxable. What if your family has five homes/complexes? While you're
there you have use of the family vehicles, servants, club
memberships....supplement that with some carefully crafted trust fund money
and earnings- she's rich without large taxable transfers.


Even if it's taxed, the tax doesn't take all of it. You people act like
someone ending up with a hundred million dollars out of a 200 million
dollar estate is impoverished or something.



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On 2010-07-31, ATP wrote:

"Ignoramus18915" wrote in message
...
On 2010-07-31, ATP wrote:

"Ignoramus18915" wrote in message
...
On 2010-07-31, ATP wrote:

"Ignoramus18915" wrote in message
...
On 2010-07-30, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Nope. An Estate Tax (or to call it more properly a Death Tax) is
why we get Paris Hilton. She knows she's not going to inherit it,
her
Daddy knows she's not going to inherit, so why not spend it as much
as
possible now, before it goes tot he tax man.

Excuse me?

Do you have a clue as to what you are talking about?

Transferring money to anyone (such as heir) as a gift, while alive,
subjects them to gift tax, which is very similar (and is designed to
supplant) estate tax.

Getting money from daddy when daddy is alive, is generally taxed the
same way as when daddy is dead.

I'd be surprised if the full value of the services, transportation,
clothing
etcetera consumed by Paris Hilton is accounted for and taxed.

Do you mean that what her dad pays for her clothing, is not taxed with
gift tax?

Good question.

i

Staying at family compounds, buying on family charge accounts, payments
for
bogus services, staff on family payroll, there are probably a lot of ways
to
prop up her lifestyle without gift taxes.


Hard to say, my guess is that she is too high profile to hide that
sort of thing.

i


Most of it is probably legal. Staying at your Dad's house or summer home is
not taxable. What if your family has five homes/complexes? While you're
there you have use of the family vehicles, servants, club
memberships....supplement that with some carefully crafted trust fund money
and earnings- she's rich without large taxable transfers.



Well, yes, but no assets are transferred. My kids stay at my home too
(expensive) and I wipe their butts (could also be expensive, but I do
it for free).

i
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On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:59:29 -0500, Ignoramus18915
wrote:

On 2010-07-30, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Why is that any of your business? Stop dictating how I run my life,
you meddlesome petty tyrant.


Should we stop dictating how many wives you have, too?

i


Yes. Afterall...poligamy is voluntary.

Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9
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"J. Clarke" wrote:

On 7/30/2010 10:42 PM, ATP wrote:
id wrote in message
...
On 2010-07-31, wrote:

id wrote in message
...
On 2010-07-31, wrote:

id wrote in message
...
On 2010-07-30, pyotr wrote:
Nope. An Estate Tax (or to call it more properly a Death Tax) is
why we get Paris Hilton. She knows she's not going to inherit it,
her
Daddy knows she's not going to inherit, so why not spend it as much
as
possible now, before it goes tot he tax man.

Excuse me?

Do you have a clue as to what you are talking about?

Transferring money to anyone (such as heir) as a gift, while alive,
subjects them to gift tax, which is very similar (and is designed to
supplant) estate tax.

Getting money from daddy when daddy is alive, is generally taxed the
same way as when daddy is dead.

I'd be surprised if the full value of the services, transportation,
clothing
etcetera consumed by Paris Hilton is accounted for and taxed.

Do you mean that what her dad pays for her clothing, is not taxed with
gift tax?

Good question.

i

Staying at family compounds, buying on family charge accounts, payments
for
bogus services, staff on family payroll, there are probably a lot of ways
to
prop up her lifestyle without gift taxes.

Hard to say, my guess is that she is too high profile to hide that
sort of thing.

i


Most of it is probably legal. Staying at your Dad's house or summer home is
not taxable. What if your family has five homes/complexes? While you're
there you have use of the family vehicles, servants, club
memberships....supplement that with some carefully crafted trust fund money
and earnings- she's rich without large taxable transfers.


Even if it's taxed, the tax doesn't take all of it. You people act like
someone ending up with a hundred million dollars out of a 200 million
dollar estate is impoverished or something.


You act like the estate is all cash. What if that half of the
inheritance means that property has to be sold to pay the tax?
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In article ,
Ignoramus18915 wrote:

On 2010-07-30, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus18915 fired this volley in
:

Estate tax is an attempt to balance the pluses with minuses. Some
amout being taxed, still keeps people interested in becoming wealthy,
but curtails to some extent this resource misallocation.


Ig, the estate tax might have some small effect like that, but that's
hardly its purpose. I would love it if that were actually the case, but
that's a utopian's view.

The real reason for the tax is simply that the government saw a nice, fat
pot to skim from, and decided to take a piece. They new darned well if
they took it from the average working stiff who's widow needs the whole
estate just to buy groceries, they'd have a rebellion.

There were no reasons of societal altruism in establishing the estate
tax. It's just another pork pot. Would that it were as you say.


Lloyd, you may be right about the motivations. You may be more of a
realist than I am. It is a great way to grab some money from the
rich, I agree.

But, I think, the question is, is the effect of that positive or
negative? And I think that at some reasonable level of taxation, it is
positive. Keeps the balance a little bit better.

If the level was too high, it would be negative.


The original intent of estate taxes was social engineering in the 18th century
England. The intent was to break up the large estates, thus reducing the
political power of the landed gentry relative to that of the King and of
Parliment, and in this the tax was successful.


Joe Gwinn


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On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 01:05:38 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote the following:

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:59:29 -0500, Ignoramus18915
wrote:

On 2010-07-30, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Why is that any of your business? Stop dictating how I run my life,
you meddlesome petty tyrant.


Should we stop dictating how many wives you have, too?


Yes. Afterall...poligamy is voluntary.


Yes, and masochism is treatable.

--
To see what is right, and not to do it, is want of courage or of principle.
-- Confucius
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"Ignoramus18915" wrote in message
...
On 2010-07-31, ATP wrote:

"Ignoramus18915" wrote in message
...
On 2010-07-31, ATP wrote:

"Ignoramus18915" wrote in message
...
On 2010-07-30, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Nope. An Estate Tax (or to call it more properly a Death Tax) is
why we get Paris Hilton. She knows she's not going to inherit it,
her
Daddy knows she's not going to inherit, so why not spend it as much
as
possible now, before it goes tot he tax man.

Excuse me?

Do you have a clue as to what you are talking about?

Transferring money to anyone (such as heir) as a gift, while alive,
subjects them to gift tax, which is very similar (and is designed to
supplant) estate tax.

Getting money from daddy when daddy is alive, is generally taxed the
same way as when daddy is dead.

I'd be surprised if the full value of the services, transportation,
clothing
etcetera consumed by Paris Hilton is accounted for and taxed.

Do you mean that what her dad pays for her clothing, is not taxed with
gift tax?

Good question.

i


Staying at family compounds, buying on family charge accounts, payments
for
bogus services, staff on family payroll, there are probably a lot of ways
to
prop up her lifestyle without gift taxes.


Hard to say, my guess is that she is too high profile to hide that
sort of thing.


Hilton may be lacking in the morals area but she's one sharp broad - a
millionaire in her own right many times over.
Paris Hilton has become a brand and that brand has left the person behind.
She is now Paris Hilton, Inc.

JC


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Ignoramus18915 on Fri, 30 Jul
2010 13:31:24 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

That the Schmidt company is privately held is just another way of
doing the same thing - it is the corporation which makes all the
money, not the 'stock holders'.


Private or not, stockholders get dividends from corporate earnings.


Apparently, you've never held stock in a company which for various
reasons decided to "skip the dividend." Or stock in a company which
doesn't issue dividends. Say, Microsoft
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
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"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
Ignoramus18915 on Fri, 30 Jul
2010 13:31:24 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
That you don't like inherited wealth doesn't matter. You can give
it all away - and not take the tax deduction.


I would not give anything away until my children are well provided
for.


Bah, you are one of the capitalist running dogs, those who inherit
wealth are the worst of the lot.

I'm sorry citizen, but you are being greedy, by not sharing the
wealth.

You live in a Rush Limbaugh fantasy land.

I highly recommend not listening to Rush Limbaugh at all, and trying
to re-establish your grip on reality. I do mean well when I say it, do
not take it as an insult.


I'm sorry, but it does seem to me that you are the one who seems
to feel that I should have a claim to your money, because I am poor
and you are not. And that your children don't need it, being the
offspring of a rich corporatist.


What Iggy is proposing is basically the position of most people throughout
history, throughout western societies. It you read the sections on taxation
of inheritances since Roman times, in Adam Smith's _The Wealth of Nations_
(particularly the Appendices to Articles I and II, v.2.113 and following,
you'll see that the basic principle hasn't changed.

It's a much more thoughtful and sensible case than the simplistic and
extremist nonsense that you're proposing here.

--
Ed Huntress


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On 7/31/2010 3:08 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
"J. on Fri, 30 Jul 2010 23:52:51
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 7/30/2010 10:42 PM, ATP wrote:
id wrote in message
...
On 2010-07-31, wrote:
id wrote:
On 2010-07-31, wrote:
id wrote
On 2010-07-30, pyotr wrote:
Nope. An Estate Tax (or to call it more properly a Death Tax) is
why we get Paris Hilton. She knows she's not going to inherit it,
her Daddy knows she's not going to inherit, so why not spend it as much
as possible now, before it goes tot he tax man.

Excuse me?

Do you have a clue as to what you are talking about?

Transferring money to anyone (such as heir) as a gift, while alive,
subjects them to gift tax, which is very similar (and is designed to
supplant) estate tax.

Getting money from daddy when daddy is alive, is generally taxed the
same way as when daddy is dead.

I'd be surprised if the full value of the services, transportation,
clothing etcetera consumed by Paris Hilton is accounted for and taxed.

Do you mean that what her dad pays for her clothing, is not taxed with
gift tax?

Good question.

Staying at family compounds, buying on family charge accounts, payments
for bogus services, staff on family payroll, there are probably a lot of ways
to prop up her lifestyle without gift taxes.

Hard to say, my guess is that she is too high profile to hide that
sort of thing.

i

Most of it is probably legal. Staying at your Dad's house or summer home is
not taxable. What if your family has five homes/complexes? While you're
there you have use of the family vehicles, servants, club
memberships....supplement that with some carefully crafted trust fund money
and earnings- she's rich without large taxable transfers.


Even if it's taxed, the tax doesn't take all of it. You people act like
someone ending up with a hundred million dollars out of a 200 million
dollar estate is impoverished or something.


And you act as if having the government take half of what you
saved and earned over the course of your life is not a bad thing.


Well, I'd feel a lot worse about if if it meant that somebody was going
to miss meals as a result of it.

Some people behave as if something is okay, as long as it involves
large amounts of money.


When you're working for a living it's hard to develop much sympathy for
anybody who doesn't have to.



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pyotr filipivich on Sat, 31 Jul 2010 12:08:33
-0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"J. Clarke" on Fri, 30 Jul 2010 23:52:51
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 7/30/2010 10:42 PM, ATP wrote:
id wrote in message
...
On 2010-07-31, wrote:
id wrote:
On 2010-07-31, wrote:
id wrote
On 2010-07-30, pyotr wrote:
Nope. An Estate Tax (or to call it more properly a Death Tax) is
why we get Paris Hilton. She knows she's not going to inherit it,
her Daddy knows she's not going to inherit, so why not spend it as much
as possible now, before it goes tot he tax man.

Excuse me?

Do you have a clue as to what you are talking about?

Transferring money to anyone (such as heir) as a gift, while alive,
subjects them to gift tax, which is very similar (and is designed to
supplant) estate tax.

Getting money from daddy when daddy is alive, is generally taxed the
same way as when daddy is dead.

I'd be surprised if the full value of the services, transportation,
clothing etcetera consumed by Paris Hilton is accounted for and taxed.

Do you mean that what her dad pays for her clothing, is not taxed with
gift tax?

Good question.

Staying at family compounds, buying on family charge accounts, payments
for bogus services, staff on family payroll, there are probably a lot of ways
to prop up her lifestyle without gift taxes.

Hard to say, my guess is that she is too high profile to hide that
sort of thing.

i

Most of it is probably legal. Staying at your Dad's house or summer home is
not taxable. What if your family has five homes/complexes? While you're
there you have use of the family vehicles, servants, club
memberships....supplement that with some carefully crafted trust fund money
and earnings- she's rich without large taxable transfers.


Even if it's taxed, the tax doesn't take all of it. You people act like
someone ending up with a hundred million dollars out of a 200 million
dollar estate is impoverished or something.


And you act as if having the government take half of what you
saved and earned over the course of your life is not a bad thing.

Some people behave as if something is okay, as long as it involves
large amounts of money.


I should amend that to read: Some people behave as if something is
okay, as long as it involves large amounts of other people's money.

Come to think of it, as long as they just tax those people who
still favor Obama tax increases, who am I to complain? They get to
pay more in tax, and the government get the revenue.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
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"J. Clarke" on Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:35:57
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 7/31/2010 3:08 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
"J. on Fri, 30 Jul 2010 23:52:51
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 7/30/2010 10:42 PM, ATP wrote:
id wrote in message
...
On 2010-07-31, wrote:
id wrote:
On 2010-07-31, wrote:
id wrote
On 2010-07-30, pyotr wrote:
Nope. An Estate Tax (or to call it more properly a Death Tax) is
why we get Paris Hilton. She knows she's not going to inherit it,
her Daddy knows she's not going to inherit, so why not spend it as much
as possible now, before it goes tot he tax man.

Excuse me?

Do you have a clue as to what you are talking about?

Transferring money to anyone (such as heir) as a gift, while alive,
subjects them to gift tax, which is very similar (and is designed to
supplant) estate tax.

Getting money from daddy when daddy is alive, is generally taxed the
same way as when daddy is dead.

I'd be surprised if the full value of the services, transportation,
clothing etcetera consumed by Paris Hilton is accounted for and taxed.

Do you mean that what her dad pays for her clothing, is not taxed with
gift tax?

Good question.

Staying at family compounds, buying on family charge accounts, payments
for bogus services, staff on family payroll, there are probably a lot of ways
to prop up her lifestyle without gift taxes.

Hard to say, my guess is that she is too high profile to hide that
sort of thing.

i

Most of it is probably legal. Staying at your Dad's house or summer home is
not taxable. What if your family has five homes/complexes? While you're
there you have use of the family vehicles, servants, club
memberships....supplement that with some carefully crafted trust fund money
and earnings- she's rich without large taxable transfers.

Even if it's taxed, the tax doesn't take all of it. You people act like
someone ending up with a hundred million dollars out of a 200 million
dollar estate is impoverished or something.


And you act as if having the government take half of what you
saved and earned over the course of your life is not a bad thing.


Well, I'd feel a lot worse about if if it meant that somebody was going
to miss meals as a result of it.

Some people behave as if something is okay, as long as it involves
large amounts of money.


When you're working for a living it's hard to develop much sympathy for
anybody who doesn't have to.


So you don't care if the government decides that you are "rich"
and deserve to make a "voluntary investment" of half of your savings?
Or all that surplus moeny you have?

Unprincipled rat *******, ain't you. Like I said, you don't care
what happens, as long as it involves lots of other people's money.


tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
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On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 07:14:51 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 01:05:38 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote the following:

On Fri, 30 Jul 2010 14:59:29 -0500, Ignoramus18915
wrote:

On 2010-07-30, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Why is that any of your business? Stop dictating how I run my life,
you meddlesome petty tyrant.

Should we stop dictating how many wives you have, too?


Yes. Afterall...poligamy is voluntary.


Yes, and masochism is treatable.


Ive lived for a number of years with two women lovers. Everyone was
quite happy.

No masochism..except perhaps on my part. Women living together tend to
go on the rag together...and having two of them turning into monsters at
the same time with no escape......

Then Bernettas mom got cancer and needed her..so she moved out to take
care of her mom in Kansas....sigh.

We both still miss her deeply.

Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9
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"ATP" on Fri, 30 Jul 2010 22:03:30
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

"Ignoramus18915" wrote in message
m...
On 2010-07-31, ATP wrote:

"Ignoramus18915" wrote in message
...
On 2010-07-30, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Nope. An Estate Tax (or to call it more properly a Death Tax) is
why we get Paris Hilton. She knows she's not going to inherit it, her
Daddy knows she's not going to inherit, so why not spend it as much as
possible now, before it goes tot he tax man.

Excuse me?

Do you have a clue as to what you are talking about?

Transferring money to anyone (such as heir) as a gift, while alive,
subjects them to gift tax, which is very similar (and is designed to
supplant) estate tax.

Getting money from daddy when daddy is alive, is generally taxed the
same way as when daddy is dead.

I'd be surprised if the full value of the services, transportation,
clothing
etcetera consumed by Paris Hilton is accounted for and taxed.


Do you mean that what her dad pays for her clothing, is not taxed with
gift tax?

Good question.

i


Staying at family compounds, buying on family charge accounts, payments for
bogus services, staff on family payroll, there are probably a lot of ways to
prop up her lifestyle without gift taxes.


The details of how MS Hilton spends the money is beside the point.
What incentive does Paris Hilton have to add to the family nest egg?
Or not to reduce the family nest egg?

What incentive does anyone have, to save and invest in order to
give half of it to the government when they die?

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
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On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 15:35:57 -0400, "J. Clarke"
wrote:

On 7/31/2010 3:08 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
"J. on Fri, 30 Jul 2010 23:52:51
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 7/30/2010 10:42 PM, ATP wrote:
id wrote in message
...
On 2010-07-31, wrote:
id wrote:
On 2010-07-31, wrote:
id wrote
On 2010-07-30, pyotr wrote:
Nope. An Estate Tax (or to call it more properly a Death Tax) is
why we get Paris Hilton. She knows she's not going to inherit it,
her Daddy knows she's not going to inherit, so why not spend it as much
as possible now, before it goes tot he tax man.

Excuse me?

Do you have a clue as to what you are talking about?

Transferring money to anyone (such as heir) as a gift, while alive,
subjects them to gift tax, which is very similar (and is designed to
supplant) estate tax.

Getting money from daddy when daddy is alive, is generally taxed the
same way as when daddy is dead.

I'd be surprised if the full value of the services, transportation,
clothing etcetera consumed by Paris Hilton is accounted for and taxed.

Do you mean that what her dad pays for her clothing, is not taxed with
gift tax?

Good question.

Staying at family compounds, buying on family charge accounts, payments
for bogus services, staff on family payroll, there are probably a lot of ways
to prop up her lifestyle without gift taxes.

Hard to say, my guess is that she is too high profile to hide that
sort of thing.

i

Most of it is probably legal. Staying at your Dad's house or summer home is
not taxable. What if your family has five homes/complexes? While you're
there you have use of the family vehicles, servants, club
memberships....supplement that with some carefully crafted trust fund money
and earnings- she's rich without large taxable transfers.

Even if it's taxed, the tax doesn't take all of it. You people act like
someone ending up with a hundred million dollars out of a 200 million
dollar estate is impoverished or something.


And you act as if having the government take half of what you
saved and earned over the course of your life is not a bad thing.


Well, I'd feel a lot worse about if if it meant that somebody was going
to miss meals as a result of it.

Some people behave as if something is okay, as long as it involves
large amounts of money.


When you're working for a living it's hard to develop much sympathy for
anybody who doesn't have to.


When you are crippled, lame and stupid, is it right to hate those that
are smart, athletic and physically fit?


Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9


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On 7/30/2010 12:56 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Well, that's fairly conclusive that you're incorrigible liberal.



If you think that then that's all the proof a person would need to know
that Ig is rational. What he says makes sense. What you say does not.
I'll take his reasoning over yours every time.


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On 7/30/2010 11:28 AM, RBnDFW wrote:
Ignoramus18915 wrote:
On 2010-07-30, RBnDFW wrote:
Ignoramus5687 wrote:
On 2010-07-30, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 29 Jul 2010 19:43:22 -0400, Wes
wrote the following:

RBnDFW wrote:

"When he founded Harbor Freight Tools four decades ago, it?s
unlikely Allan Smidt expected it would end like it did this
spring, when his own son had an executive walk him out the door
and lock him out of the building."

http://www.vcstar.com/news/2010/jul/...ts-of-looting/

Assuming above story is factually correct, this is one of the few
times I approve of post
term abortion
ROTFLSHIAPMP! Megadittoes.

This is also a good example why estate tax is a good idea. Just
because his son was made from his sperm, does not automatically make
him most qualified to run the business or "worthy" of being able to
command as much as his dad did.
So you think the government is the better heir?


Maybe it is not "better", but it prevents or at least reduces
perpetual dynasties that have nothing to do with merit.


Where is the harm to society?
Plenty of poorly run companies. That doesn't mean the government should
nationalize them, in whole or in part.
God knows government isn't efficient at running anything.
In fact, the HF heir behaves most like a typical federal bureaucrat.

Inheritance tax is no answer to anything.



Yes it is. It's the answer to how do you prevent creating a class of
aristocrats that have way too much influence on society and government.
Of course, if you want a country dominated by a small class that has
inherited huge amounts of money then you wouldn't want an estate tax.

After seeing the evils of a monarchy the founding fathers did everything
to keep from having that happen here. They also saw what allowing the
estates of the rich to pass on through the generations did to England,
and they didn't want that to happen here either. So if you are against
the estate tax you disagree with the founders. I can't help but wonder
if you disagree with them on this how many other things you think they
did wrong. You must be a socialist.

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On 7/30/2010 12:37 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 3.70...
fired this volley in
:

Estate tax is an attempt to balance the pluses with minuses. Some
amout being taxed, still keeps people interested in becoming wealthy,
but curtails to some extent this resource misallocation.


Ig, the estate tax might have some small effect like that, but that's
hardly its purpose. I would love it if that were actually the case, but
that's a utopian's view.

The real reason for the tax is simply that the government saw a nice, fat
pot to skim from, and decided to take a piece. They new darned well if
they took it from the average working stiff who's widow needs the whole
estate just to buy groceries, they'd have a rebellion.

There were no reasons of societal altruism in establishing the estate
tax. It's just another pork pot. Would that it were as you say.

LLoyd


In terms of why such taxes were enacted, you're quite right. As for why they
have stuck (on and off since 1797 in the US, and much longer in some
European countries), it's been a common sentiment that heirs have no natural
right to a person's wealth after their death, and that society as a whole
has a stronger claim. In other words, like sin taxes, it's been widely
accepted because most people have agreed that it's fair.

That's been the source of the arguments about it, and other types of
transfer taxes, for hundreds of years. As always with taxes that are not
issued strictly per-capita, a nation's tax structure tends to reflect what
the majority thinks is right and wrong. In a democratic society, going
against that popular opinion can result in one losing the next election.

Now it's a highly contested issue, so it's become one more divisive
political point.



Except for one thing. The two sides in the contest are always the same.
On the anti tax side is always the same group. Those with all the
wealth. It's a very small group with power way beyond it's numbers
because of the amount of money it controls. The anti tax side is the
same as its always been, whether it's the aristocrats in the U.K.
hundreds of years ago or the super rich in the U.S. today. They have the
same goal. To give the wealth they have amassed to their offspring so
they get the benefit of it and not the country as a whole.

The pro tax side is always just about everyone else living in the
country. So you have like 99% of the population who see no reason for
the children of the rich to be handed fabulous wealth for nothing while
everyone else starts out in life from scratch. What that means is in a
vote on the issue the anti tax side has virtually no chance of
prevailing simply because they are such a numerically small group. But
because of their wealth and power they are able to convince a large
enough group of gullible folk into thinking the issue is one of
government taking from the "producers" and giving it to the lazy. It's
not. It's only about allowing great wealth to stay in the hands of a few
families.

The issue is always the same though. Just because someone makes a
fortune in life why should their kids get to live like kings? Most
Americans believe that everyone should start life off on as level a
playing field as possible. Allowing billionaires to pass on gigantic
sums of money to its offspring is actually harmful to the country and
should not be allowed, and that is what the majority has pretty much
always believed, and still does. Oh, and the rich still think they have
a right to pass their wealth on to their kids without interference.

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On 2010-07-31, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Ignoramus18915 on Fri, 30 Jul
2010 13:31:24 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
That you don't like inherited wealth doesn't matter. You can give
it all away - and not take the tax deduction.


I would not give anything away until my children are well provided
for.


Bah, you are one of the capitalist running dogs, those who inherit
wealth are the worst of the lot.

I'm sorry citizen, but you are being greedy, by not sharing the
wealth.


Well, I do not ojbect to being taxed. If I die with over 10 mil in
current money (extremely unlikely!) I would leave some to charity.

You live in a Rush Limbaugh fantasy land.

I highly recommend not listening to Rush Limbaugh at all, and trying
to re-establish your grip on reality. I do mean well when I say it, do
not take it as an insult.


I'm sorry, but it does seem to me that you are the one who seems
to feel that I should have a claim to your money, because I am poor
and you are not. And that your children don't need it, being the
offspring of a rich corporatist.


I see nothing really wrong with sharing a part of money with the
society.

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On 7/30/2010 12:24 PM, RBnDFW wrote:
Ignoramus18915 wrote:
On 2010-07-30, RBnDFW wrote:
Maybe it is not "better", but it prevents or at least reduces
perpetual dynasties that have nothing to do with merit.
Where is the harm to society?


The plus of being able to pass estate to heirs is that it makes people
work harder and to save more.
The minus of this is that resources are given to people based on
something other than merit.
Let's suppose that we are in the business of making widgets. Say, you
are really good at making them, so you make a fortune in widgets. I
am bad at making widgets, lose out in competition to you, and stay
poor. That's merit based. No complaints here.

Now, if your heir gets a lot of money and is a bum, that's not really
a great allocation of resources.
Estate tax is an attempt to balance the pluses with minuses. Some
amout being taxed, still keeps people interested in becoming wealthy,
but curtails to some extent this resource misallocation.


If it's a family business, I should be able to do whatever I want with
it. I can give it to my MBA daughter or my pet duck. Benefit to society
is irrelevant - it's my business, not the government's.

Say, you sound like one o' them You-Ro-Peens!




You can give your kids anything you want when you are alive. You don't
have any rights when you're dead. When you're dead you no longer call
the shots on anything. Society gets to decide where your stuff goes. If
you are lucky some of it gets to your children. You don't have any right
to control wealth from the grave or to influence the country either.
It's society that decides what happens after you are gone. If you don't
like that the truth is nobody cares.

Hawke


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On 2010-07-31, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Ignoramus18915 on Fri, 30 Jul
2010 13:21:35 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 2010-07-30, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Nope. An Estate Tax (or to call it more properly a Death Tax) is
why we get Paris Hilton. She knows she's not going to inherit it, her
Daddy knows she's not going to inherit, so why not spend it as much as
possible now, before it goes tot he tax man.


Excuse me?

Do you have a clue as to what you are talking about?

Transferring money to anyone (such as heir) as a gift, while alive,
subjects them to gift tax, which is very similar (and is designed to
supplant) estate tax.


Ah, so when you buy something, it is a gift? Do you kids know
that when you pay for something for them, it is a gift? Do you report
all those transfers to the IRS on your voluntary tax form?


This again suuggests that you have no clue about what you are talking
about. Gifts under $24k per married couple do not need to be reported.

I would not be surprised if Miss Hilton had a credit card which
Daddy covered.


People cheat on this stuff a lot. It is not too hard to hide a few
hundred thousands per year. What is harder is to hide a few tens or hundreds
mils.

I would not be surprised if she had a nice job with
the Hilton Corporation as a means of explaining her income.


Yes, but that is as taxable as gifts. You really need to learn more
about issues where you have an opinion.

I'm also quite sure that she, and her father, and her grandfather,
have on staff some pretty clever tax attorneys, who's' job it is to
minimize the tax bit. After all, Tax Avoidance is the only
intellectual exercise which had real rewards.


Sure.

But that doesn't change the fact that you seem to object to Paris
Hilton (et alia) inheriting her father's estate, yet feel that you
should be able to pass on your estate to your children.


Why, myself I would not mind having a part if it taken as taxes, I
think that it is totally fair.

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On 2010-07-31, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Ignoramus18915 on Fri, 30 Jul
2010 13:21:35 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
That Smidt's kid is an arshole does not mean that the rest of us
should pay for it.


Um, if I remember right, you do not have enough assets as to pay
estate tax, right? Why are you including yourself into "the rest of
us"?


Why are you so envious of those who are "better off" than you?
That's the underlying issue: envy, and a desire to punish the rich..
You have it, I don't.

If, indeed, your assets do not exceed estate tax deduction, they you
or your heirs would not be "paying".


So why should I be concerned if the Government decided you
corporatists have to pay more taxes? I mean, I don't have a
corporation, and I'm not likely to have one, so why should I concern
myself if they decide you aren't paying your fair share?


It is an illusion to have high government expenses, growing debt and
low taxes. I would prefer this to be more explicit and for taxes to
match expenses. Ideally that should be done by spending less money.

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Hawke fired this volley in news:i329aq$k9f
:

Allowing billionaires to pass on gigantic
sums of money to its offspring is actually harmful to the country and
should not be allowed, and that is what the majority has pretty much
always believed, and still does


And without classifying myself as "the rich", because I'll never be
charged an estate tax -- that's complete bull****.

IF I want to spend my career ensuring that my children never have to work
as hard as I did, then that is my right. _I_ produced the effort. _I_
made the choice to pass it on. _I_ am not "depriving society" of anything
by doing so; in fact, I've enriched society with the jobs I've created,
and the taxes I've paid while doing it.

The estate tax is theft, pure and simple. It is a deliberate attempt by
government to destroy the efforts put forth by people who just happen to
be _more_productive_ than the masses.

LLoyd


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On 2010-07-31, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Hawke fired this volley in news:i329aq$k9f
:

Allowing billionaires to pass on gigantic
sums of money to its offspring is actually harmful to the country and
should not be allowed, and that is what the majority has pretty much
always believed, and still does


And without classifying myself as "the rich", because I'll never be
charged an estate tax -- that's complete bull****.

IF I want to spend my career ensuring that my children never have to work
as hard as I did, then that is my right. _I_ produced the effort. _I_
made the choice to pass it on. _I_ am not "depriving society" of anything
by doing so; in fact, I've enriched society with the jobs I've created,
and the taxes I've paid while doing it.

The estate tax is theft, pure and simple. It is a deliberate attempt by
government to destroy the efforts put forth by people who just happen to
be _more_productive_ than the masses.


I hope that there is some reasonable point between these two views,
which is to simply charge a modest estate tax, like 35-45%.

i
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On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 17:53:33 -0500, Ignoramus28671
wrote:

On 2010-07-31, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Ignoramus18915 on Fri, 30 Jul
2010 13:31:24 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
That you don't like inherited wealth doesn't matter. You can give
it all away - and not take the tax deduction.

I would not give anything away until my children are well provided
for.


Bah, you are one of the capitalist running dogs, those who inherit
wealth are the worst of the lot.

I'm sorry citizen, but you are being greedy, by not sharing the
wealth.


Well, I do not ojbect to being taxed. If I die with over 10 mil in
current money (extremely unlikely!) I would leave some to charity.

You live in a Rush Limbaugh fantasy land.

I highly recommend not listening to Rush Limbaugh at all, and trying
to re-establish your grip on reality. I do mean well when I say it, do
not take it as an insult.


I'm sorry, but it does seem to me that you are the one who seems
to feel that I should have a claim to your money, because I am poor
and you are not. And that your children don't need it, being the
offspring of a rich corporatist.


I see nothing really wrong with sharing a part of money with the
society.

i


You were born and raised in the Soviet Union. Its not surprising that
you have that sort of mindset tucked away deep inside your skull.
Particulary when the sharing is done at the point of an AK.

??????? ?? ?????? ???????? ?????

Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9


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On 2010-08-01, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 17:53:33 -0500, Ignoramus28671
wrote:

On 2010-07-31, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Ignoramus18915 on Fri, 30 Jul
2010 13:31:24 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
That you don't like inherited wealth doesn't matter. You can give
it all away - and not take the tax deduction.

I would not give anything away until my children are well provided
for.

Bah, you are one of the capitalist running dogs, those who inherit
wealth are the worst of the lot.

I'm sorry citizen, but you are being greedy, by not sharing the
wealth.


Well, I do not ojbect to being taxed. If I die with over 10 mil in
current money (extremely unlikely!) I would leave some to charity.

You live in a Rush Limbaugh fantasy land.

I highly recommend not listening to Rush Limbaugh at all, and trying
to re-establish your grip on reality. I do mean well when I say it, do
not take it as an insult.

I'm sorry, but it does seem to me that you are the one who seems
to feel that I should have a claim to your money, because I am poor
and you are not. And that your children don't need it, being the
offspring of a rich corporatist.


I see nothing really wrong with sharing a part of money with the
society.

i


You were born and raised in the Soviet Union. Its not surprising that
you have that sort of mindset tucked away deep inside your skull.
Particulary when the sharing is done at the point of an AK.


Maybe.

I am very partial towards AKs, too.

On this CNC mill, I will make bayonet mounts for my AK and my M39
Mosin Nagant, hopefully soon.

i

??????? ?? ?????? ???????? ?????

Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

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Ignoramus28671 wrote:

I'm sorry, but it does seem to me that you are the one who seems
to feel that I should have a claim to your money, because I am poor
and you are not. And that your children don't need it, being the
offspring of a rich corporatist.


I see nothing really wrong with sharing a part of money with the
society.



You did, you were taxed all along the way. The death tax is nothing more than the tyranny
of the majority and a bit of penis envy. Something that plays well with people that
believe their position in life is because some fat cat held them down.

You of all people should know Communism didn't work and Commie lite isn't going to work
either.

Wes
--
In her book "Atlas Shrugged", first published in 1957, Ayn Rand warned us about the society we find
ourselves in. We were warned.

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Ignoramus28671 wrote:

I see nothing really wrong with sharing a part of money with the
society.

i



That's good of you, ig,
But it's more like society sharing some of your money with you...

--

Richard Lamb


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Please, careful with the quoted text. I'm the guy who said "Get your
meddlesome taxation the hell out of my life, you damned liberal!" That
text is someone else's writing.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"J. Clarke" wrote in message
...
On 7/30/2010 3:54 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
Maybe it is not "better", but it prevents or at least reduces
perpetual dynasties that have nothing to do with merit.


And what's wrong with perpetual dynasties that have nothing to do with
merit other than that you aren't part of one?


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On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 18:43:39 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Hawke fired this volley in news:i329aq$k9f
:

Allowing billionaires to pass on gigantic
sums of money to its offspring is actually harmful to the country and
should not be allowed, and that is what the majority has pretty much
always believed, and still does


And without classifying myself as "the rich", because I'll never be
charged an estate tax -- that's complete bull****.

IF I want to spend my career ensuring that my children never have to work
as hard as I did, then that is my right. _I_ produced the effort. _I_
made the choice to pass it on. _I_ am not "depriving society" of anything
by doing so; in fact, I've enriched society with the jobs I've created,
and the taxes I've paid while doing it.

The estate tax is theft, pure and simple. It is a deliberate attempt by
government to destroy the efforts put forth by people who just happen to
be _more_productive_ than the masses.

LLoyd


Hear Hear!!! Bravo! Well said!!!

Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9


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On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 18:51:10 -0500, Ignoramus28671
wrote:

On 2010-07-31, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Hawke fired this volley in news:i329aq$k9f
:

Allowing billionaires to pass on gigantic
sums of money to its offspring is actually harmful to the country and
should not be allowed, and that is what the majority has pretty much
always believed, and still does


And without classifying myself as "the rich", because I'll never be
charged an estate tax -- that's complete bull****.

IF I want to spend my career ensuring that my children never have to work
as hard as I did, then that is my right. _I_ produced the effort. _I_
made the choice to pass it on. _I_ am not "depriving society" of anything
by doing so; in fact, I've enriched society with the jobs I've created,
and the taxes I've paid while doing it.

The estate tax is theft, pure and simple. It is a deliberate attempt by
government to destroy the efforts put forth by people who just happen to
be _more_productive_ than the masses.


I hope that there is some reasonable point between these two views,
which is to simply charge a modest estate tax, like 35-45%.


What does the State Do to deserve 1/3 to 1/2 of your or my money?????

Hummmmmm????

Gunner

i



"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9
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Ignoramus28671 wrote:

It is an illusion to have high government expenses, growing debt and
low taxes. I would prefer this to be more explicit and for taxes to
match expenses. Ideally that should be done by spending less money.


Well, there is some hope for you yet.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
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Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:


What does the State Do to deserve 1/3 to 1/2 of your or my money?????

Hummmmmm????

Gunner


I can take that further, Ig (Gunny).

I live in a rural area where my insurance fees and taxes have quintupled
in eight years. I don't make enough money to afford this, but on my
relatively modest home and 20 acres of beef cattle, I now pay over $10K
in taxes and insurance every year. That may be small compared to New
Yawk, but this is scrub-pine, cattle country, woodsy Florida, away from
ALL attractions.

That's _after_ an "agricultural exemption" that allows about a 13%
reduction on the taxes for the _land_ (not the house).

To boot, I asked my county people when A) we will get a paved road, and
B)when we will get a fire department within 20 minutes run of our site.

The answer was (actually and literally) "Don't hold your breath. There
are NO plans to _ever_ do that."

I also pay (separately) to have my garbage collected -- it's not part of
my "privilege tax" for living here in this county, although other
residents of the county have it included in their ad-velorum taxes. If I
don't pay the fee (even if I never have any garbage to collect), the
county puts a lien on my property. I have an elderly neighbor (82) who
lives about 1/2 mile OFF the dirt road we live on. The garbage
collection company refuses to drive down his private drive to pick up his
trash, because it "disrupts their schedule", so he personally hauls it to
the county dump in his trailer.

Thus, he didn't feel the need to renew his garbage pickup contract with
the county. They put a lien on his house, and it grows semi-annually,
because he'll be damned if they're going to get the money.

Here's the rub. Mine and his tax rate is the same as those in the areas
that receive the benefits. They have fire protection. They have tax-
included garbage collection. They have paved roads. As a result of the
fire protection, the "protection class" of their homes diminishes to
where their insurance bill is less than 20% of mine. Yet, we pay for the
same services, and receive them not.

Bottom line? The "state" (county, district, municipality, whatever
money-sucking entity you want to name) does _nothing_ for the right to
steal my money, but yet they do.

And here's the bad part (like the rest wasn't?): When I moved here ten
years ago, this was "ag district", so our taxes were less, and insurance
companies loved us, because unlike the stupid city-slickers, we knew
enough not to burn down our own houses.

In eight years, the county commissioners found a "fatted calf", and
screwed us; they re-zoned this area "estate farms" (in their memos) and
"rural residential" in zone name -- although over 90% of this and the
surrounding 4500 acres is in beef cattle and sylviculture. In the same
time, the insurance companies noticed they weren't earning as much as the
wanted to on the claims they never had to pay, and bumped up our rates
because we have "estate homes" (not farms, anymore).

It's theft. If I ever get a chance to tweak the money back out of these
robbers, I shall (lawsuit, whatever... and I'm not litigious). If I ever
find a way to cheat the system by hiding what I have in a loophole they
provided, I shall (and they make a lot of them for themselves).

They have made crooks of honest men. And that's what the estate tax
does. It steals from folks until they find a way to hide and sequester
what they've earned, so the government can't pillage it. The estate tax
makes crooks of honest men.

LLoyd
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Default Harbor Freight family feud

On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 19:17:48 -0500, Ignoramus28671
wrote:

On 2010-08-01, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 17:53:33 -0500, Ignoramus28671
wrote:

On 2010-07-31, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Ignoramus18915 on Fri, 30 Jul
2010 13:31:24 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
That you don't like inherited wealth doesn't matter. You can give
it all away - and not take the tax deduction.

I would not give anything away until my children are well provided
for.

Bah, you are one of the capitalist running dogs, those who inherit
wealth are the worst of the lot.

I'm sorry citizen, but you are being greedy, by not sharing the
wealth.

Well, I do not ojbect to being taxed. If I die with over 10 mil in
current money (extremely unlikely!) I would leave some to charity.

You live in a Rush Limbaugh fantasy land.

I highly recommend not listening to Rush Limbaugh at all, and trying
to re-establish your grip on reality. I do mean well when I say it, do
not take it as an insult.

I'm sorry, but it does seem to me that you are the one who seems
to feel that I should have a claim to your money, because I am poor
and you are not. And that your children don't need it, being the
offspring of a rich corporatist.

I see nothing really wrong with sharing a part of money with the
society.

i


You were born and raised in the Soviet Union. Its not surprising that
you have that sort of mindset tucked away deep inside your skull.
Particulary when the sharing is done at the point of an AK.


Maybe.

I am very partial towards AKs, too.

On this CNC mill, I will make bayonet mounts for my AK and my M39
Mosin Nagant, hopefully soon.

i


Ill buy an adapter to use a more common Bayonet on the Finn 39s if you
make them.

Thats Free Enterprise....




??????? ?? ?????? ???????? ?????


I see my bit of Cyrillic didnt make the translation into Engish.

Pity

Gunner


Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9



"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9
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Default Harbor Freight family feud

On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 20:33:01 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:


What does the State Do to deserve 1/3 to 1/2 of your or my money?????

Hummmmmm????

Gunner


I can take that further, Ig (Gunny).

I live in a rural area where my insurance fees and taxes have quintupled
in eight years. I don't make enough money to afford this, but on my
relatively modest home and 20 acres of beef cattle, I now pay over $10K
in taxes and insurance every year. That may be small compared to New
Yawk, but this is scrub-pine, cattle country, woodsy Florida, away from
ALL attractions.

That's _after_ an "agricultural exemption" that allows about a 13%
reduction on the taxes for the _land_ (not the house).

To boot, I asked my county people when A) we will get a paved road, and
B)when we will get a fire department within 20 minutes run of our site.

The answer was (actually and literally) "Don't hold your breath. There
are NO plans to _ever_ do that."

I also pay (separately) to have my garbage collected -- it's not part of
my "privilege tax" for living here in this county, although other
residents of the county have it included in their ad-velorum taxes. If I
don't pay the fee (even if I never have any garbage to collect), the
county puts a lien on my property. I have an elderly neighbor (82) who
lives about 1/2 mile OFF the dirt road we live on. The garbage
collection company refuses to drive down his private drive to pick up his
trash, because it "disrupts their schedule", so he personally hauls it to
the county dump in his trailer.

Thus, he didn't feel the need to renew his garbage pickup contract with
the county. They put a lien on his house, and it grows semi-annually,
because he'll be damned if they're going to get the money.

Here's the rub. Mine and his tax rate is the same as those in the areas
that receive the benefits. They have fire protection. They have tax-
included garbage collection. They have paved roads. As a result of the
fire protection, the "protection class" of their homes diminishes to
where their insurance bill is less than 20% of mine. Yet, we pay for the
same services, and receive them not.


Sounds like the perfect place for a Class Action Suit against your
county.


Bottom line? The "state" (county, district, municipality, whatever
money-sucking entity you want to name) does _nothing_ for the right to
steal my money, but yet they do.

And here's the bad part (like the rest wasn't?): When I moved here ten
years ago, this was "ag district", so our taxes were less, and insurance
companies loved us, because unlike the stupid city-slickers, we knew
enough not to burn down our own houses.

In eight years, the county commissioners found a "fatted calf", and
screwed us; they re-zoned this area "estate farms" (in their memos) and
"rural residential" in zone name -- although over 90% of this and the
surrounding 4500 acres is in beef cattle and sylviculture. In the same
time, the insurance companies noticed they weren't earning as much as the
wanted to on the claims they never had to pay, and bumped up our rates
because we have "estate homes" (not farms, anymore).

It's theft. If I ever get a chance to tweak the money back out of these
robbers, I shall (lawsuit, whatever... and I'm not litigious). If I ever
find a way to cheat the system by hiding what I have in a loophole they
provided, I shall (and they make a lot of them for themselves).

They have made crooks of honest men. And that's what the estate tax
does. It steals from folks until they find a way to hide and sequester
what they've earned, so the government can't pillage it. The estate tax
makes crooks of honest men.

LLoyd


Ayup.

Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9


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On 2010-08-01, Gunner Asch wrote:

Ill buy an adapter to use a more common Bayonet on the Finn 39s if you
make them.

Thats Free Enterprise....


That's what I wanted, to use a spike bayonet on this M39.

Chaarge!

i
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On 2010-08-01, Gunner Asch wrote:
What does the State Do to deserve 1/3 to 1/2 of your or my money?????

Hummmmmm????


Keeping me safe, maintaining an army, educating my children, etc
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On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 21:00:23 -0500, Ignoramus28671
wrote:

On 2010-08-01, Gunner Asch wrote:
What does the State Do to deserve 1/3 to 1/2 of your or my money?????

Hummmmmm????


Keeping me safe, maintaining an army, educating my children, etc


Can you provide a break down for that?

Please do so we can look at it and find out if there is any graft,
corruption or mispending.

And check the State for dachas owned by its politburo members....

Ok?

Im curious though..I thought you paid taxes while you were alive to
cover those items..including taxes on the money you owned before you
suddenly became dead.

Can you tell me what happened to the previous taxes on that money?

Gunner


"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9
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On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 20:59:30 -0500, Ignoramus28671
wrote:

On 2010-08-01, Gunner Asch wrote:

Ill buy an adapter to use a more common Bayonet on the Finn 39s if you
make them.

Thats Free Enterprise....


That's what I wanted, to use a spike bayonet on this M39.

Chaarge!

i


Spikes are ok, but they dont have any decent cutting ability and the
blade is far too narrow to break bones, bust ribs and whatnot.

But they do come out easier....

Perhaps something like these would be better?

http://cgi.ebay.com/D2-Steel-Handmad...-/320566969591

http://cgi.ebay.com/K5-BAYONET-AND-S...-/320566968247

http://cgi.ebay.com/D2-Steel-Handmad...-/320567720347

Ive got spikes on about 1/3rd of my SMLEs..the rest are good steel
blades sharpened well. And of course..some of my other arms have
bayonets as well.

A blade can be a marvelous impliment in the proper circumstances. And
few people pay a lot of attention to a spike, unless they know what can
be done with one. A nice sharp blade on the other hand...they tend to
instinctivly shy away from.....Which is a good thing. Prevents one from
actually having to use it at times.

Which is a very good thing, no?

On the other hand..some bayonets simply arent worth mounting....

http://cgi.ebay.com/German-1898-Kurz...-/260642814936
http://cgi.ebay.com/BRITISH-P-1879-A...-/320568219088
http://cgi.ebay.com/WWI-ORIGINAL-GER...-/290428277793

and so forth....

Now this one..may be of value...

http://cgi.ebay.com/GERMAN-Wire-cutt...-/250672421426



Gunner





"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9
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Default Harbor Freight family feud

On 2010-08-01, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 31 Jul 2010 20:59:30 -0500, Ignoramus28671
wrote:

On 2010-08-01, Gunner Asch wrote:

Ill buy an adapter to use a more common Bayonet on the Finn 39s if you
make them.

Thats Free Enterprise....


That's what I wanted, to use a spike bayonet on this M39.

Chaarge!

i


Spikes are ok, but they dont have any decent cutting ability and the
blade is far too narrow to break bones, bust ribs and whatnot.

But they do come out easier....

Perhaps something like these would be better?

http://cgi.ebay.com/D2-Steel-Handmad...-/320566969591
http://cgi.ebay.com/K5-BAYONET-AND-S...-/320566968247
http://cgi.ebay.com/D2-Steel-Handmad...-/320567720347


I do not like any of them.

Ive got spikes on about 1/3rd of my SMLEs..the rest are good steel
blades sharpened well. And of course..some of my other arms have
bayonets as well.


I really hope that I could never need to be bayonetting anyone, this
is all for appearance only.

A blade can be a marvelous impliment in the proper circumstances. And
few people pay a lot of attention to a spike, unless they know what can
be done with one. A nice sharp blade on the other hand...they tend to
instinctivly shy away from.....Which is a good thing. Prevents one from
actually having to use it at times.

Which is a very good thing, no?


Bayonet adds to the length of the rifle and is mostly a disadvantage.

On the other hand..some bayonets simply arent worth mounting....

http://cgi.ebay.com/German-1898-Kurz...-/260642814936
http://cgi.ebay.com/BRITISH-P-1879-A...-/320568219088
http://cgi.ebay.com/WWI-ORIGINAL-GER...-/290428277793

and so forth....

Now this one..may be of value...

http://cgi.ebay.com/GERMAN-Wire-cutt...-/250672421426


This is an AK bayonet. It is very practical because it can be used to
cut wire and do other things.

i



Gunner





"A conservative who doesn't believe? in God simply doesn't pray;
a godless liberal wants no one to pray. A conservative who doesn't
like guns doesn't buy one; a liberal gun-hater wants to disarm us all.
A gay conservative has sex his own way; a gay liberal requires us all
to watch and accept his perversion and have it taught to children.
A conservative who is offended by a radio show changes the station;
an offended liberal wants it banned, prosecuted and persecuted."
Bobby XD9

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