Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 369
Default OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise

Bend over, grab your ankles and smile.

Example: Myra is a single filer with investment income of $100,000 and wages
of $200,000. But during the same year she loses $300,000 in a Ponzi scheme.
She pays no income tax, but she still owes the new Medicare tax of $3,800 on
her net investment income, says Sharon Kreider, a tax expert in Sunnyvale,
Calif.

The 3.8% tax on investment income also knocks down a longstanding wall by
applying a "payroll" tax to unearned income. Until now, FICA taxes for
Social Security and Medicare have applied only to wages, not investment
income.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703890904575297351898565426.html?m od=rss_Today's_Most_Popular

Best Regards
Tom.


  #2   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,152
Default OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise

On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 00:24:42 -0700, "azotic"
wrote:

Bend over, grab your ankles and smile.

Example: Myra is a single filer with investment income of $100,000 and wages
of $200,000. But during the same year she loses $300,000 in a Ponzi scheme.
She pays no income tax, but she still owes the new Medicare tax of $3,800 on
her net investment income, says Sharon Kreider, a tax expert in Sunnyvale,
Calif.

The 3.8% tax on investment income also knocks down a longstanding wall by
applying a "payroll" tax to unearned income. Until now, FICA taxes for
Social Security and Medicare have applied only to wages, not investment
income.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703890904575297351898565426.html?m od=rss_Today's_Most_Popular

Best Regards
Tom.

==========
The axiom is "hard cases make bad law."

However there appears to be no good/logical [current] reason
why "investment income" should be taxed at a much lower rate
than earned income, e.g. capital gains, nor any reason FICA
should not also apply to "investment" income.

The major problem appears to be that when these special tax
exemptions/exceptions/treatments were instituted, a return
on an "investment" could be assumed to only result from
expanded business operations resulting in increased economic
activity, expanded employment, and indirectly increased
governmental revenues.

Over time, with gross shifts in the domestic [US] economic
environment, this assumption appears to have gone from
largely correct/operational to largely incorrect.

Almost all of the frantic/manic activity that now generates
"investment income" does nothing to grow the domestic
economy/GDP, and indeed much of it *REDUCES* domestic
economic activity by exporting jobs, and consuming huge
amounts of capital, e.g. looting pension/retirement funds
and corporate assets.

It appears far more justifiable to remove the annual cap on
FICA taxes, given that much, if not all, of the shortfalls
now occurring are the direct result of deskilling and the
export of entire sectors of the domestic economy for
"investment" profit, and that special "capital gains" tax
rates/treatments should not apply to profits generated by
stock, bond, commodity and derivative trades/speculation in
the secondary markets, e.g. "carried interest." An actual
"Capital Gain" [i.e. an actual increase in the GDP] rather
than simply the transfer of money from one pocket to
another, frequently by highly questionable legal/ethical
means, and/or a plausible increase in domestic employment
resulting from such investment, should be overtly required
before any special/lower tax treatment than that imposed on
"earned income" is even considered, and then only on a "one
time" basis, i.e. "what have you done for me lately?"

It is suggested that people unhappy with this should
consider moving to Mexico or Kyrgyzstan where the taxes are
lower, or at least the rich don't have to pay.

-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).
  #3   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,984
Default OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise

On Jun 15, 4:12*am, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:

It is suggested that people unhappy with this should
consider moving to Mexico or Kyrgyzstan where the taxes are
lower, or at least the rich don't have to pay.

-- Unka George *(George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).


I think I would prefer to move to New Zealand or one of the many other
countries where there are no taxes on capital gains. New Zealand
realizes that capital is necessary to create jobs.

If you want less of something, put a tax on it. Cigarettes, Liquor,
Capital, and Savings. Taxing Capital Gains as you want to do, will
ensure that more jobs move overseas.


Dan

  #4   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,529
Default OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise


wrote in message
...
On Jun 15, 4:12 am, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:

It is suggested that people unhappy with this should
consider moving to Mexico or Kyrgyzstan where the taxes are
lower, or at least the rich don't have to pay.

-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).


I think I would prefer to move to New Zealand or one of the many other
countries where there are no taxes on capital gains. New Zealand
realizes that capital is necessary to create jobs.

If you want less of something, put a tax on it. Cigarettes, Liquor,
Capital, and Savings. Taxing Capital Gains as you want to do, will
ensure that more jobs move overseas.


Dan


When did we start taxing capital or savings in the US, Dan? Some states have
asset taxes on business property, but there are no federal taxes on either
capital or savings -- only on income. And if people object to the asset
taxes, they can move to another state. There's no need to move overseas to
avoid that.

--
Ed Huntress


  #5   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,632
Default OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise

"Ed Huntress" fired this volley in
:

When did we start taxing capital or savings in the US, Dan? Some
states have asset taxes on business property, but there are no federal
taxes on either capital or savings -- only on income. And if people
object to the asset taxes, they can move to another state. There's no
need to move overseas to avoid that.



Ed, you need to read Atlas Shrugged (maybe again).

Re-read John Galt's radio broadcast.

LLoyd


  #6   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,529
Default OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise


"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
.70...
"Ed Huntress" fired this volley in
:

When did we start taxing capital or savings in the US, Dan? Some
states have asset taxes on business property, but there are no federal
taxes on either capital or savings -- only on income. And if people
object to the asset taxes, they can move to another state. There's no
need to move overseas to avoid that.



Ed, you need to read Atlas Shrugged (maybe again).

Re-read John Galt's radio broadcast.

LLoyd


Thanks, Lloyd. Yes, I read it.

It would be interesting to see what Ayn Rand would have to say about
offshoring and the race to the bottom against 80-cent wages. For that
matter, I'd like to see what Milton Friedman would have to say about it.
They couldn't deny the facts forever.

--
Ed Huntress


  #7   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,984
Default OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise

On Jun 15, 7:26*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:

When did we start taxing capital or savings in the US, Dan? Some states have
asset taxes on business property, but there are no federal taxes on either
capital or savings -- only on income. And if people object to the asset
taxes, they can move to another state. There's no need to move overseas to
avoid that.

--
Ed Huntress


We started a long time ago. If I bought some industrial property
thirty years ago for say $50,000 and now sell the same property for
say $400,000, I pay taxes on $350,000 dollars. But the gain is really
just because of smaller dollars because of inflation. ( I said same
property. ). So that is a tax on capital.


Dan

  #8   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,529
Default OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise


wrote in message
...
On Jun 15, 7:26 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:

When did we start taxing capital or savings in the US, Dan? Some states
have
asset taxes on business property, but there are no federal taxes on either
capital or savings -- only on income. And if people object to the asset
taxes, they can move to another state. There's no need to move overseas to
avoid that.

--
Ed Huntress


We started a long time ago. If I bought some industrial property
thirty years ago for say $50,000 and now sell the same property for
say $400,000, I pay taxes on $350,000 dollars. But the gain is really
just because of smaller dollars because of inflation. ( I said same
property. ). So that is a tax on capital.


Dan


Aha. Yes, that's a good point. Inflation throws a monkey wrench into it over
a long term.

You'll find, though, that our capital gains taxes are lower than those of
most developed countries, and even for many developing countries. But many
of them have an inflation index multiplier (or divisor) that shelters most
of the gains from inflation.

--
Ed Huntress


  #10   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,475
Default OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise

On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 06:52:10 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Jun 15, 7:26*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:

When did we start taxing capital or savings in the US, Dan? Some states have
asset taxes on business property, but there are no federal taxes on either
capital or savings -- only on income. And if people object to the asset
taxes, they can move to another state. There's no need to move overseas to
avoid that.

--
Ed Huntress


We started a long time ago. If I bought some industrial property
thirty years ago for say $50,000 and now sell the same property for
say $400,000, I pay taxes on $350,000 dollars. But the gain is really
just because of smaller dollars because of inflation. ( I said same
property. ). So that is a tax on capital.


Dan


In capitalist jurisdictions such as Hong Kong, there is no tax on bank
interest. After all, the zero-risk return from a bank account won't
exceed inflation.




  #11   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,152
Default OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise

On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 03:12:08 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:
snip
It is suggested that people unhappy with this should
consider moving to Mexico or Kyrgyzstan where the taxes are
lower, or at least the rich don't have to pay.

snip

Or if you are a corporation, just open a "head office" in a
tax haven but keep everything else the same...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a9q7DpbuIjBo
snip
June 15 (Bloomberg) -- Transocean Ltd., owner of the
Deepwater Horizon offshore rig leaking oil in the Gulf of
Mexico, reduced its U.S. tax bill by almost $2 billion since
1999 when it moved its headquarters to the Cayman Islands, a
published report said.
snip
Transocean moved its headquarters to Switzerland in December
2008.

According to the Tax Notes article, Transocean earned $12.8
billion and paid $2.2 billion in taxes since 2000. Had the
company earned those profits while paying its old 31.6
percent effective tax rate, the report said, it would have
paid $1.9 billion more in taxes.

Its rivals reported similar results, the magazine said.
Noble reduced its average tax rate to 17.9 percent from 27.6
percent and saved $678 million after moving to the Cayman
Islands. Nabors saved $652 million in tax since its move to
Bermuda, and Weatherford saved $923 million.

--

-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).
  #12   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 369
Default OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise


"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 03:12:08 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:
snip
It is suggested that people unhappy with this should
consider moving to Mexico or Kyrgyzstan where the taxes are
lower, or at least the rich don't have to pay.

snip

Or if you are a corporation, just open a "head office" in a
tax haven but keep everything else the same...

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a9q7DpbuIjBo
snip
June 15 (Bloomberg) -- Transocean Ltd., owner of the
Deepwater Horizon offshore rig leaking oil in the Gulf of
Mexico, reduced its U.S. tax bill by almost $2 billion since
1999 when it moved its headquarters to the Cayman Islands, a
published report said.
snip
Transocean moved its headquarters to Switzerland in December
2008.

According to the Tax Notes article, Transocean earned $12.8
billion and paid $2.2 billion in taxes since 2000. Had the
company earned those profits while paying its old 31.6
percent effective tax rate, the report said, it would have
paid $1.9 billion more in taxes.

Its rivals reported similar results, the magazine said.
Noble reduced its average tax rate to 17.9 percent from 27.6
percent and saved $678 million after moving to the Cayman
Islands. Nabors saved $652 million in tax since its move to
Bermuda, and Weatherford saved $923 million.

--

-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................


Of course the administration intends to make up the lost revenue
buy putting the bite on small S-corporations that dont have the
resources to relocate. Meanwhile back at ranch wallstreet is
doing business as usual.

Since corporations have been granted the same rights as a
real person in recent court rulings we should simply
tax them in the same manner as ex-patriots are taxed.
Locating corporate headquaters in a forgien country to
evade taxes would become mute. There should also be
a corporate exit tax of 99% when they change thier
national allegience.

Best Regards
Tom.
Rant/off


  #13   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 681
Default OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise

azotic wrote:

Locating corporate headquaters in a forgien country to
evade taxes would become mute.


it's MOOT!
  #14   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 12,924
Default OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise


RBnDFW wrote:

azotic wrote:

Locating corporate headquaters in a forgien country to
evade taxes would become mute.


it's MOOT!



That sounds like a tailgating cow, that didn't stop in time. ;-)


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
  #15   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,024
Default OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise

On 6/15/2010 4:50 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
.70...
"Ed fired this volley in
:

When did we start taxing capital or savings in the US, Dan? Some
states have asset taxes on business property, but there are no federal
taxes on either capital or savings -- only on income. And if people
object to the asset taxes, they can move to another state. There's no
need to move overseas to avoid that.



Ed, you need to read Atlas Shrugged (maybe again).

Re-read John Galt's radio broadcast.

LLoyd


Thanks, Lloyd. Yes, I read it.

It would be interesting to see what Ayn Rand would have to say about
offshoring and the race to the bottom against 80-cent wages. For that
matter, I'd like to see what Milton Friedman would have to say about it.
They couldn't deny the facts forever.



I wouldn't be too sure about that. Denial is unbelievable in some folks.
And you probably need to brush up on the terrific benefits that can be
obtained by adopting libertarian principles. Don't you know, it's not
just for oddballs anymore. Deregulating business, markets, and
everything to the level of virtual anarchy will be really good for the
country. Who needs laws? Everything will be better if we let everyone
self regulate. I mean, look at the positive benefits we got by not
enforcing regulations on financial institutions and on oil companies.
God knows how much better off we all will be if we do the same thing
across the board. But you know, there is a reason why libertarianism
attracts only a very small minority of people. You have to be nuts to be
one!

Hawke



  #16   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,024
Default OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise

On 6/15/2010 11:40 AM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 06:52:10 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Jun 15, 7:26 am, "Ed wrote:

When did we start taxing capital or savings in the US, Dan? Some states have
asset taxes on business property, but there are no federal taxes on either
capital or savings -- only on income. And if people object to the asset
taxes, they can move to another state. There's no need to move overseas to
avoid that.

--
Ed Huntress


We started a long time ago. If I bought some industrial property
thirty years ago for say $50,000 and now sell the same property for
say $400,000, I pay taxes on $350,000 dollars. But the gain is really
just because of smaller dollars because of inflation. ( I said same
property. ). So that is a tax on capital.


Dan


In capitalist jurisdictions such as Hong Kong, there is no tax on bank
interest. After all, the zero-risk return from a bank account won't
exceed inflation.



What you find in all the areas touted by the free marketeers like Hong
Kong, Singapore etc. are places where every possible advantage is
granted to businesses. They pay low or no taxes, no one tells them what
they can or can't do, and the governments work hand in hand with them to
help them make a lot of profit. Along with that you get a country that
is an ecological disaster zone, is overcrowded, has a small elite of
businessmen and government leaders with immense wealth, and a large
population of people living in poverty and in slums with no chance of
moving up. You also have no middle class. Very similar to the old
aristocracies, you have a two tiered society of a huge poor and
uneducated mass living horrible lives and a small group of elites living
like royalty. To me, that is a trade off that isn't worth it. I'd rather
see a large class of moderately well off people and virtually no
extremely wealthy individuals. It's all just a choice each society has
to make. Divide up the nation's wealth in a fair way or not. Those free
market havens have chosen to distribute the wealth extremely unjustly.
Most Americans don't want our country to be anything like them.

Hawke
  #17   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 2,152
Default OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise

On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 07:26:52 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:
snip
When did we start taxing capital or savings in the US,

snip
Its called inflation, and applies to anything that is U.S.
Dollar denominated, with no exceptions, exemptions or
deductions.


-- Unka George (George McDuffee)
...............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).
  #18   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 475
Default OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise


"Hawke" wrote in message
...
On 6/15/2010 11:40 AM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 06:52:10 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Jun 15, 7:26 am, "Ed wrote:

When did we start taxing capital or savings in the US, Dan? Some
states have
asset taxes on business property, but there are no federal taxes
on either
capital or savings -- only on income. And if people object to the
asset
taxes, they can move to another state. There's no need to move
overseas to
avoid that.

--
Ed Huntress

We started a long time ago. If I bought some industrial property
thirty years ago for say $50,000 and now sell the same property
for
say $400,000, I pay taxes on $350,000 dollars. But the gain is
really
just because of smaller dollars because of inflation. ( I said
same
property. ). So that is a tax on capital.


Dan


In capitalist jurisdictions such as Hong Kong, there is no tax on
bank
interest. After all, the zero-risk return from a bank account won't
exceed inflation.



What you find in all the areas touted by the free marketeers like
Hong Kong, Singapore etc. are places where every possible advantage
is granted to businesses. They pay low or no taxes, no one tells
them what they can or can't do, and the governments work hand in
hand with them to help them make a lot of profit. Along with that
you get a country that is an ecological disaster zone, is
overcrowded, has a small elite of businessmen and government leaders
with immense wealth, and a large population of people living in
poverty and in slums with no chance of moving up. You also have no
middle class. Very similar to the old aristocracies, you have a two
tiered society of a huge poor and uneducated mass living horrible
lives and a small group of elites living like royalty. To me, that
is a trade off that isn't worth it. I'd rather see a large class of
moderately well off people and virtually no extremely wealthy
individuals. It's all just a choice each society has to make. Divide
up the nation's wealth in a fair way or not. Those free market
havens have chosen to distribute the wealth extremely unjustly. Most
Americans don't want our country to be anything like them.

Hawke



wow. perfect. i don't know how any patriotic american can refute
that. THAT'S what makes america great. THAT stirs patrotic feelings
in me. i have tears in my eyes and a compulsion to hold my hand over
my heart reading that.

b.w.





  #19   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,399
Default OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise

On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 15:53:21 -0500, "William Wixon"
wrote:


"Hawke" wrote in message
...
On 6/15/2010 11:40 AM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 06:52:10 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Jun 15, 7:26 am, "Ed wrote:

When did we start taxing capital or savings in the US, Dan? Some
states have
asset taxes on business property, but there are no federal taxes
on either
capital or savings -- only on income. And if people object to the
asset
taxes, they can move to another state. There's no need to move
overseas to
avoid that.

--
Ed Huntress

We started a long time ago. If I bought some industrial property
thirty years ago for say $50,000 and now sell the same property
for
say $400,000, I pay taxes on $350,000 dollars. But the gain is
really
just because of smaller dollars because of inflation. ( I said
same
property. ). So that is a tax on capital.


Dan

In capitalist jurisdictions such as Hong Kong, there is no tax on
bank
interest. After all, the zero-risk return from a bank account won't
exceed inflation.



What you find in all the areas touted by the free marketeers like
Hong Kong, Singapore etc. are places where every possible advantage
is granted to businesses. They pay low or no taxes, no one tells
them what they can or can't do, and the governments work hand in
hand with them to help them make a lot of profit. Along with that
you get a country that is an ecological disaster zone, is
overcrowded, has a small elite of businessmen and government leaders
with immense wealth, and a large population of people living in
poverty and in slums with no chance of moving up. You also have no
middle class. Very similar to the old aristocracies, you have a two
tiered society of a huge poor and uneducated mass living horrible
lives and a small group of elites living like royalty. To me, that
is a trade off that isn't worth it. I'd rather see a large class of
moderately well off people and virtually no extremely wealthy
individuals. It's all just a choice each society has to make. Divide
up the nation's wealth in a fair way or not. Those free market
havens have chosen to distribute the wealth extremely unjustly. Most
Americans don't want our country to be anything like them.

Hawke



wow. perfect. i don't know how any patriotic american can refute
that. THAT'S what makes america great. THAT stirs patrotic feelings
in me. i have tears in my eyes and a compulsion to hold my hand over
my heart reading that.

b.w.

Disaster zone...he isnt talking about the old USSR, is he? The old
Russia filled with huge hazmat zones and dead vistas?

I didnt think they were capitalists. Did I miss something?

Gunner

One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that,
in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers
and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are
not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid.
Gunner Asch
Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OT- Taxpayer surprise, Union Pension Bailout azotic Metalworking 67 June 12th 10 01:40 AM
World Oil Production to Peak in 2013 peakoil Metalworking 6 May 30th 09 08:30 AM
World Oil Production to Peak in 2013 peakoil Home Repair 26 May 27th 09 06:42 PM
OT-Taxpayer Surprise #2 azotic Metalworking 32 August 4th 08 09:09 AM
OT-Taxpayer Surprise. azotic Metalworking 186 July 26th 08 08:54 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 10:03 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"