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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise
Bend over, grab your ankles and smile.
Example: Myra is a single filer with investment income of $100,000 and wages of $200,000. But during the same year she loses $300,000 in a Ponzi scheme. She pays no income tax, but she still owes the new Medicare tax of $3,800 on her net investment income, says Sharon Kreider, a tax expert in Sunnyvale, Calif. The 3.8% tax on investment income also knocks down a longstanding wall by applying a "payroll" tax to unearned income. Until now, FICA taxes for Social Security and Medicare have applied only to wages, not investment income. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703890904575297351898565426.html?m od=rss_Today's_Most_Popular Best Regards Tom. |
#2
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OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 00:24:42 -0700, "azotic"
wrote: Bend over, grab your ankles and smile. Example: Myra is a single filer with investment income of $100,000 and wages of $200,000. But during the same year she loses $300,000 in a Ponzi scheme. She pays no income tax, but she still owes the new Medicare tax of $3,800 on her net investment income, says Sharon Kreider, a tax expert in Sunnyvale, Calif. The 3.8% tax on investment income also knocks down a longstanding wall by applying a "payroll" tax to unearned income. Until now, FICA taxes for Social Security and Medicare have applied only to wages, not investment income. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703890904575297351898565426.html?m od=rss_Today's_Most_Popular Best Regards Tom. ========== The axiom is "hard cases make bad law." However there appears to be no good/logical [current] reason why "investment income" should be taxed at a much lower rate than earned income, e.g. capital gains, nor any reason FICA should not also apply to "investment" income. The major problem appears to be that when these special tax exemptions/exceptions/treatments were instituted, a return on an "investment" could be assumed to only result from expanded business operations resulting in increased economic activity, expanded employment, and indirectly increased governmental revenues. Over time, with gross shifts in the domestic [US] economic environment, this assumption appears to have gone from largely correct/operational to largely incorrect. Almost all of the frantic/manic activity that now generates "investment income" does nothing to grow the domestic economy/GDP, and indeed much of it *REDUCES* domestic economic activity by exporting jobs, and consuming huge amounts of capital, e.g. looting pension/retirement funds and corporate assets. It appears far more justifiable to remove the annual cap on FICA taxes, given that much, if not all, of the shortfalls now occurring are the direct result of deskilling and the export of entire sectors of the domestic economy for "investment" profit, and that special "capital gains" tax rates/treatments should not apply to profits generated by stock, bond, commodity and derivative trades/speculation in the secondary markets, e.g. "carried interest." An actual "Capital Gain" [i.e. an actual increase in the GDP] rather than simply the transfer of money from one pocket to another, frequently by highly questionable legal/ethical means, and/or a plausible increase in domestic employment resulting from such investment, should be overtly required before any special/lower tax treatment than that imposed on "earned income" is even considered, and then only on a "one time" basis, i.e. "what have you done for me lately?" It is suggested that people unhappy with this should consider moving to Mexico or Kyrgyzstan where the taxes are lower, or at least the rich don't have to pay. -- Unka George (George McDuffee) ............................... The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953). |
#3
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OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise
On Jun 15, 4:12*am, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote: It is suggested that people unhappy with this should consider moving to Mexico or Kyrgyzstan where the taxes are lower, or at least the rich don't have to pay. -- Unka George *(George McDuffee) .............................. The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953). I think I would prefer to move to New Zealand or one of the many other countries where there are no taxes on capital gains. New Zealand realizes that capital is necessary to create jobs. If you want less of something, put a tax on it. Cigarettes, Liquor, Capital, and Savings. Taxing Capital Gains as you want to do, will ensure that more jobs move overseas. Dan |
#4
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OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise
wrote in message ... On Jun 15, 4:12 am, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee- associates.us wrote: It is suggested that people unhappy with this should consider moving to Mexico or Kyrgyzstan where the taxes are lower, or at least the rich don't have to pay. -- Unka George (George McDuffee) .............................. The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953). I think I would prefer to move to New Zealand or one of the many other countries where there are no taxes on capital gains. New Zealand realizes that capital is necessary to create jobs. If you want less of something, put a tax on it. Cigarettes, Liquor, Capital, and Savings. Taxing Capital Gains as you want to do, will ensure that more jobs move overseas. Dan When did we start taxing capital or savings in the US, Dan? Some states have asset taxes on business property, but there are no federal taxes on either capital or savings -- only on income. And if people object to the asset taxes, they can move to another state. There's no need to move overseas to avoid that. -- Ed Huntress |
#5
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OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise
"Ed Huntress" fired this volley in
: When did we start taxing capital or savings in the US, Dan? Some states have asset taxes on business property, but there are no federal taxes on either capital or savings -- only on income. And if people object to the asset taxes, they can move to another state. There's no need to move overseas to avoid that. Ed, you need to read Atlas Shrugged (maybe again). Re-read John Galt's radio broadcast. LLoyd |
#6
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OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message .70... "Ed Huntress" fired this volley in : When did we start taxing capital or savings in the US, Dan? Some states have asset taxes on business property, but there are no federal taxes on either capital or savings -- only on income. And if people object to the asset taxes, they can move to another state. There's no need to move overseas to avoid that. Ed, you need to read Atlas Shrugged (maybe again). Re-read John Galt's radio broadcast. LLoyd Thanks, Lloyd. Yes, I read it. It would be interesting to see what Ayn Rand would have to say about offshoring and the race to the bottom against 80-cent wages. For that matter, I'd like to see what Milton Friedman would have to say about it. They couldn't deny the facts forever. -- Ed Huntress |
#7
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OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise
On Jun 15, 7:26*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
When did we start taxing capital or savings in the US, Dan? Some states have asset taxes on business property, but there are no federal taxes on either capital or savings -- only on income. And if people object to the asset taxes, they can move to another state. There's no need to move overseas to avoid that. -- Ed Huntress We started a long time ago. If I bought some industrial property thirty years ago for say $50,000 and now sell the same property for say $400,000, I pay taxes on $350,000 dollars. But the gain is really just because of smaller dollars because of inflation. ( I said same property. ). So that is a tax on capital. Dan |
#8
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OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise
wrote in message ... On Jun 15, 7:26 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote: When did we start taxing capital or savings in the US, Dan? Some states have asset taxes on business property, but there are no federal taxes on either capital or savings -- only on income. And if people object to the asset taxes, they can move to another state. There's no need to move overseas to avoid that. -- Ed Huntress We started a long time ago. If I bought some industrial property thirty years ago for say $50,000 and now sell the same property for say $400,000, I pay taxes on $350,000 dollars. But the gain is really just because of smaller dollars because of inflation. ( I said same property. ). So that is a tax on capital. Dan Aha. Yes, that's a good point. Inflation throws a monkey wrench into it over a long term. You'll find, though, that our capital gains taxes are lower than those of most developed countries, and even for many developing countries. But many of them have an inflation index multiplier (or divisor) that shelters most of the gains from inflation. -- Ed Huntress |
#9
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OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise
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#10
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OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 06:52:10 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: On Jun 15, 7:26*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote: When did we start taxing capital or savings in the US, Dan? Some states have asset taxes on business property, but there are no federal taxes on either capital or savings -- only on income. And if people object to the asset taxes, they can move to another state. There's no need to move overseas to avoid that. -- Ed Huntress We started a long time ago. If I bought some industrial property thirty years ago for say $50,000 and now sell the same property for say $400,000, I pay taxes on $350,000 dollars. But the gain is really just because of smaller dollars because of inflation. ( I said same property. ). So that is a tax on capital. Dan In capitalist jurisdictions such as Hong Kong, there is no tax on bank interest. After all, the zero-risk return from a bank account won't exceed inflation. |
#11
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OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 03:12:08 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote: snip It is suggested that people unhappy with this should consider moving to Mexico or Kyrgyzstan where the taxes are lower, or at least the rich don't have to pay. snip Or if you are a corporation, just open a "head office" in a tax haven but keep everything else the same... http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a9q7DpbuIjBo snip June 15 (Bloomberg) -- Transocean Ltd., owner of the Deepwater Horizon offshore rig leaking oil in the Gulf of Mexico, reduced its U.S. tax bill by almost $2 billion since 1999 when it moved its headquarters to the Cayman Islands, a published report said. snip Transocean moved its headquarters to Switzerland in December 2008. According to the Tax Notes article, Transocean earned $12.8 billion and paid $2.2 billion in taxes since 2000. Had the company earned those profits while paying its old 31.6 percent effective tax rate, the report said, it would have paid $1.9 billion more in taxes. Its rivals reported similar results, the magazine said. Noble reduced its average tax rate to 17.9 percent from 27.6 percent and saved $678 million after moving to the Cayman Islands. Nabors saved $652 million in tax since its move to Bermuda, and Weatherford saved $923 million. -- -- Unka George (George McDuffee) ............................... The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953). |
#12
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OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise
"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message ... On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 03:12:08 -0500, F. George McDuffee wrote: snip It is suggested that people unhappy with this should consider moving to Mexico or Kyrgyzstan where the taxes are lower, or at least the rich don't have to pay. snip Or if you are a corporation, just open a "head office" in a tax haven but keep everything else the same... http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=a9q7DpbuIjBo snip June 15 (Bloomberg) -- Transocean Ltd., owner of the Deepwater Horizon offshore rig leaking oil in the Gulf of Mexico, reduced its U.S. tax bill by almost $2 billion since 1999 when it moved its headquarters to the Cayman Islands, a published report said. snip Transocean moved its headquarters to Switzerland in December 2008. According to the Tax Notes article, Transocean earned $12.8 billion and paid $2.2 billion in taxes since 2000. Had the company earned those profits while paying its old 31.6 percent effective tax rate, the report said, it would have paid $1.9 billion more in taxes. Its rivals reported similar results, the magazine said. Noble reduced its average tax rate to 17.9 percent from 27.6 percent and saved $678 million after moving to the Cayman Islands. Nabors saved $652 million in tax since its move to Bermuda, and Weatherford saved $923 million. -- -- Unka George (George McDuffee) .............................. Of course the administration intends to make up the lost revenue buy putting the bite on small S-corporations that dont have the resources to relocate. Meanwhile back at ranch wallstreet is doing business as usual. Since corporations have been granted the same rights as a real person in recent court rulings we should simply tax them in the same manner as ex-patriots are taxed. Locating corporate headquaters in a forgien country to evade taxes would become mute. There should also be a corporate exit tax of 99% when they change thier national allegience. Best Regards Tom. Rant/off |
#13
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OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise
azotic wrote:
Locating corporate headquaters in a forgien country to evade taxes would become mute. it's MOOT! |
#14
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OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise
RBnDFW wrote: azotic wrote: Locating corporate headquaters in a forgien country to evade taxes would become mute. it's MOOT! That sounds like a tailgating cow, that didn't stop in time. ;-) -- Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to have a DD214, and a honorable discharge. |
#15
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OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise
On 6/15/2010 4:50 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message .70... "Ed fired this volley in : When did we start taxing capital or savings in the US, Dan? Some states have asset taxes on business property, but there are no federal taxes on either capital or savings -- only on income. And if people object to the asset taxes, they can move to another state. There's no need to move overseas to avoid that. Ed, you need to read Atlas Shrugged (maybe again). Re-read John Galt's radio broadcast. LLoyd Thanks, Lloyd. Yes, I read it. It would be interesting to see what Ayn Rand would have to say about offshoring and the race to the bottom against 80-cent wages. For that matter, I'd like to see what Milton Friedman would have to say about it. They couldn't deny the facts forever. I wouldn't be too sure about that. Denial is unbelievable in some folks. And you probably need to brush up on the terrific benefits that can be obtained by adopting libertarian principles. Don't you know, it's not just for oddballs anymore. Deregulating business, markets, and everything to the level of virtual anarchy will be really good for the country. Who needs laws? Everything will be better if we let everyone self regulate. I mean, look at the positive benefits we got by not enforcing regulations on financial institutions and on oil companies. God knows how much better off we all will be if we do the same thing across the board. But you know, there is a reason why libertarianism attracts only a very small minority of people. You have to be nuts to be one! Hawke |
#16
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OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise
On 6/15/2010 11:40 AM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 06:52:10 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Jun 15, 7:26 am, "Ed wrote: When did we start taxing capital or savings in the US, Dan? Some states have asset taxes on business property, but there are no federal taxes on either capital or savings -- only on income. And if people object to the asset taxes, they can move to another state. There's no need to move overseas to avoid that. -- Ed Huntress We started a long time ago. If I bought some industrial property thirty years ago for say $50,000 and now sell the same property for say $400,000, I pay taxes on $350,000 dollars. But the gain is really just because of smaller dollars because of inflation. ( I said same property. ). So that is a tax on capital. Dan In capitalist jurisdictions such as Hong Kong, there is no tax on bank interest. After all, the zero-risk return from a bank account won't exceed inflation. What you find in all the areas touted by the free marketeers like Hong Kong, Singapore etc. are places where every possible advantage is granted to businesses. They pay low or no taxes, no one tells them what they can or can't do, and the governments work hand in hand with them to help them make a lot of profit. Along with that you get a country that is an ecological disaster zone, is overcrowded, has a small elite of businessmen and government leaders with immense wealth, and a large population of people living in poverty and in slums with no chance of moving up. You also have no middle class. Very similar to the old aristocracies, you have a two tiered society of a huge poor and uneducated mass living horrible lives and a small group of elites living like royalty. To me, that is a trade off that isn't worth it. I'd rather see a large class of moderately well off people and virtually no extremely wealthy individuals. It's all just a choice each society has to make. Divide up the nation's wealth in a fair way or not. Those free market havens have chosen to distribute the wealth extremely unjustly. Most Americans don't want our country to be anything like them. Hawke |
#17
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OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise
On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 07:26:52 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: snip When did we start taxing capital or savings in the US, snip Its called inflation, and applies to anything that is U.S. Dollar denominated, with no exceptions, exemptions or deductions. -- Unka George (George McDuffee) ............................... The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953). |
#18
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OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise
"Hawke" wrote in message ... On 6/15/2010 11:40 AM, Spehro Pefhany wrote: On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 06:52:10 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Jun 15, 7:26 am, "Ed wrote: When did we start taxing capital or savings in the US, Dan? Some states have asset taxes on business property, but there are no federal taxes on either capital or savings -- only on income. And if people object to the asset taxes, they can move to another state. There's no need to move overseas to avoid that. -- Ed Huntress We started a long time ago. If I bought some industrial property thirty years ago for say $50,000 and now sell the same property for say $400,000, I pay taxes on $350,000 dollars. But the gain is really just because of smaller dollars because of inflation. ( I said same property. ). So that is a tax on capital. Dan In capitalist jurisdictions such as Hong Kong, there is no tax on bank interest. After all, the zero-risk return from a bank account won't exceed inflation. What you find in all the areas touted by the free marketeers like Hong Kong, Singapore etc. are places where every possible advantage is granted to businesses. They pay low or no taxes, no one tells them what they can or can't do, and the governments work hand in hand with them to help them make a lot of profit. Along with that you get a country that is an ecological disaster zone, is overcrowded, has a small elite of businessmen and government leaders with immense wealth, and a large population of people living in poverty and in slums with no chance of moving up. You also have no middle class. Very similar to the old aristocracies, you have a two tiered society of a huge poor and uneducated mass living horrible lives and a small group of elites living like royalty. To me, that is a trade off that isn't worth it. I'd rather see a large class of moderately well off people and virtually no extremely wealthy individuals. It's all just a choice each society has to make. Divide up the nation's wealth in a fair way or not. Those free market havens have chosen to distribute the wealth extremely unjustly. Most Americans don't want our country to be anything like them. Hawke wow. perfect. i don't know how any patriotic american can refute that. THAT'S what makes america great. THAT stirs patrotic feelings in me. i have tears in my eyes and a compulsion to hold my hand over my heart reading that. b.w. |
#19
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OT-2013 Taxpayer Surprise
On Wed, 16 Jun 2010 15:53:21 -0500, "William Wixon"
wrote: "Hawke" wrote in message ... On 6/15/2010 11:40 AM, Spehro Pefhany wrote: On Tue, 15 Jun 2010 06:52:10 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Jun 15, 7:26 am, "Ed wrote: When did we start taxing capital or savings in the US, Dan? Some states have asset taxes on business property, but there are no federal taxes on either capital or savings -- only on income. And if people object to the asset taxes, they can move to another state. There's no need to move overseas to avoid that. -- Ed Huntress We started a long time ago. If I bought some industrial property thirty years ago for say $50,000 and now sell the same property for say $400,000, I pay taxes on $350,000 dollars. But the gain is really just because of smaller dollars because of inflation. ( I said same property. ). So that is a tax on capital. Dan In capitalist jurisdictions such as Hong Kong, there is no tax on bank interest. After all, the zero-risk return from a bank account won't exceed inflation. What you find in all the areas touted by the free marketeers like Hong Kong, Singapore etc. are places where every possible advantage is granted to businesses. They pay low or no taxes, no one tells them what they can or can't do, and the governments work hand in hand with them to help them make a lot of profit. Along with that you get a country that is an ecological disaster zone, is overcrowded, has a small elite of businessmen and government leaders with immense wealth, and a large population of people living in poverty and in slums with no chance of moving up. You also have no middle class. Very similar to the old aristocracies, you have a two tiered society of a huge poor and uneducated mass living horrible lives and a small group of elites living like royalty. To me, that is a trade off that isn't worth it. I'd rather see a large class of moderately well off people and virtually no extremely wealthy individuals. It's all just a choice each society has to make. Divide up the nation's wealth in a fair way or not. Those free market havens have chosen to distribute the wealth extremely unjustly. Most Americans don't want our country to be anything like them. Hawke wow. perfect. i don't know how any patriotic american can refute that. THAT'S what makes america great. THAT stirs patrotic feelings in me. i have tears in my eyes and a compulsion to hold my hand over my heart reading that. b.w. Disaster zone...he isnt talking about the old USSR, is he? The old Russia filled with huge hazmat zones and dead vistas? I didnt think they were capitalists. Did I miss something? Gunner One could not be a successful Leftwinger without realizing that, in contrast to the popular conception supported by newspapers and mothers of Leftwingers, a goodly number of Leftwingers are not only narrow-minded and dull, but also just stupid. Gunner Asch |
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