Bob Engelhardt wrote:
I am repairing an aluminum brake (i.e., a brake for bending aluminum
house flashing/cladding). It is made of aluminum castings and
extrusions, held together with steel bolts and screws. Every single
bolt/screw is corroded in place! Not so much rusted as bound-up by
corrosion of the aluminum it's in. AND ... all the screw are Phillips
head! &!@^&%^%$&*?!

If you are having trouble getting those Phillips head screws out, get a
hand impact driver. 20 years of working on motorcycles demonstrated the
value of these inexpensive tools to me. With a proper fitting driver tip
and a few whacks with a hammer, almost any screw will come out.

BobH

I am repairing an aluminum brake (i.e., a brake for bending aluminum
house flashing/cladding). It is made of aluminum castings and
extrusions, held together with steel bolts and screws. Every single
bolt/screw is corroded in place! Not so much rusted as bound-up by
corrosion of the aluminum it's in. AND ... all the screw are Phillips
head! &!@^&%^%$&*?!

Anyhow, I WILL get the screws out and when I put it back together I will
not use Phillips heads and I will coat them. So, the question is: do I
coat them with anti-seize, or with anti-oxidant? If anti-seize, does it
matter which form?

Thanks,
Bob

You'd best move up to stainless fasteners. AL does this to steel.

karl

On 5/28/2010 3:34 PM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
I am repairing an aluminum brake (i.e., a brake for bending aluminum
house flashing/cladding). It is made of aluminum castings and
extrusions, held together with steel bolts and screws. Every single
bolt/screw is corroded in place! Not so much rusted as bound-up by
corrosion of the aluminum it's in. AND ... all the screw are Phillips
head! &!@^&%^%$&*?!

Anyhow, I WILL get the screws out and when I put it back together I will
not use Phillips heads and I will coat them. So, the question is: do I
coat them with anti-seize, or with anti-oxidant? If anti-seize, does it
matter which form?

Thanks,
Bob
To remove the screws, a hammer impact driver works best. Get an
antiseize with no copper. Look at the ones they use on outboard motors.
Am not at home, or would look on the tube at home.

Karl Townsend wrote:
You'd best move up to stainless fasteners. AL does this to steel.

karl



It does it with Stainless fasteners too...


--

Richard Lamb

bharbour wrote:
Bob Engelhardt wrote:
I am repairing an aluminum brake (i.e., a brake for bending aluminum
house flashing/cladding). It is made of aluminum castings and
extrusions, held together with steel bolts and screws. Every single
bolt/screw is corroded in place! Not so much rusted as bound-up by
corrosion of the aluminum it's in. AND ... all the screw are
Phillips head! &!@^&%^%$&*?!

If you are having trouble getting those Phillips head screws out, get
a hand impact driver. 20 years of working on motorcycles demonstrated
the value of these inexpensive tools to me. With a proper fitting
driver tip and a few whacks with a hammer, almost any screw will come
out.

You beat me to it. That is the tool for this job

Top picture.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Impact_driver

bharbour wrote:
If you are having trouble getting those Phillips head screws out, get a
hand impact driver. 20 years of working on motorcycles demonstrated the
value of these inexpensive tools to me. With a proper fitting driver tip
and a few whacks with a hammer, almost any screw will come out.

I'm glad you said "almost" any screw. I've BEEN whacking on my impact
driver & all that's happened is I've bent the "flutes" of the phillips bit!
http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhardt/MangledBit.jpg

The part that these screws are in is going to be replaced, so
drilling-out is the next step.

Bob

Karl Townsend wrote:
You'd best move up to stainless fasteners. AL does this to steel.

But it's not the steel that's the problem - it's the aluminum. For
example, one of the fastenings is a through bolt with a nut. I had to
use an impact wrench to loosen the bolt shaft in the smooth hole!

This is a nice tool, but definitely not made to be repaired. I think
I'll send them a note! Polite, but pointed.

Bob

"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
I am repairing an aluminum brake (i.e., a brake for bending aluminum house
flashing/cladding). It is made of aluminum castings and extrusions, held
together with steel bolts and screws. Every single bolt/screw is corroded
in place! Not so much rusted as bound-up by corrosion of the aluminum it's
in. AND ... all the screw are Phillips head! &!@^&%^%$&*?!

Anyhow, I WILL get the screws out and when I put it back together I will
not use Phillips heads and I will coat them. So, the question is: do I
coat them with anti-seize, or with anti-oxidant? If anti-seize, does it
matter which form?

Thanks,
Bob

Get the Aluminum filled anti-seize. If you want, put Heli-coils in all the
holes.

Buerste wrote:
Get the Aluminum filled anti-seize.

Thank you. It does make sense, but so does anti-oxidant G.

If you want, put Heli-coils in all the holes.

Oh - good idea. I've just never been able to justify the expense of the
heli-coil tools.

Bob

"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
Get the Aluminum filled anti-seize.

Thank you. It does make sense, but so does anti-oxidant G.

If you want, put Heli-coils in all the holes.

Oh - good idea. I've just never been able to justify the expense of the
heli-coil tools.

Bob

A threaded insert is another option.
http://www.mcmaster.com/#key-locking...nserts/=7aie5u
Art

"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
Karl Townsend wrote:
You'd best move up to stainless fasteners. AL does this to steel.

But it's not the steel that's the problem - it's the aluminum. For
example, one of the fastenings is a through bolt with a nut. I had to use
an impact wrench to loosen the bolt shaft in the smooth hole!

This is a nice tool, but definitely not made to be repaired. I think I'll
send them a note! Polite, but pointed.

Bob

Oh, I know what you mean. I've got several AL irrigation pipes that have a
steel pipe threaded in for the riser. If you twist on the riser pipe it just
takes a layer of AL with it.

Karl

On Fri, 28 May 2010 19:25:48 -0400, "Buerste"
wrote:


"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
I am repairing an aluminum brake (i.e., a brake for bending aluminum house
flashing/cladding). It is made of aluminum castings and extrusions, held
together with steel bolts and screws. Every single bolt/screw is corroded
in place! Not so much rusted as bound-up by corrosion of the aluminum it's
in. AND ... all the screw are Phillips head! &!@^&%^%$&*?!

Anyhow, I WILL get the screws out and when I put it back together I will
not use Phillips heads and I will coat them. So, the question is: do I
coat them with anti-seize, or with anti-oxidant? If anti-seize, does it
matter which form?

Thanks,
Bob

Get the Aluminum filled anti-seize. If you want, put Heli-coils in all the
holes.

This site says zinc. Look down the page at the application table.
http://www.sacskyranch.com/antiseize.htm

Pete Keillor

Bob Engelhardt wrote:
Buerste wrote:
Get the Aluminum filled anti-seize.

Thank you. It does make sense, but so does anti-oxidant G.

If you want, put Heli-coils in all the holes.

Oh - good idea. I've just never been able to justify the expense of the
heli-coil tools.

Bob


Amend that last statement: Should read " ...tools until now."



technomaNge
--
I am a racist.

I am a racist because I think this should be a country of law abiding
citizens instead of a country where people with power get away with
anything they want.

I am a racist because I want the rights guanteed by the constitution to
apply to citizens, non-citizens have a limited set of rights that are
granted temporarily. If non-citizens break our laws they go home.

I am a racist because I want my taxes to pay for strong defence of this
country, not abortions or social programs.

I am a racist because I believe any politician foolish enough to ask for
a poll before taking a position should follow the results of that poll.
People didn't want the healthcare reform, it got passed anyway.

I am a racist because I believe a politician should live up to campaign
promises.

I am a racist because I believe public officials must be responsible for
their decisions.

I am a racist because I believe tolerance means when you say Allah I can
hear it as Jesus and when I say Jesus you can hear it as Allah. If it
doesn't work that way on your side, you aren't tolerant.

I am a racist because I believe all Americans have equal opportunity.
Equalizing wealth is not a function of government.

Pete Keillor wrote:

This site says zinc. Look down the page at the application table.
http://www.sacskyranch.com/antiseize.htm

Pete Keillor

Great! Thank you.

I Googled "ZINC ANTI-SEIZE" and waded through 15 pages of hits. I found
a number of sources for the 1 lb (!) can of Loctite, around $35;
sacskyranch has 8 oz for $28; and acehardwareoutlet has a 2 oz size for
$4.55.
http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/Pro...?SKU=991000050

Considering that the 1 oz tube of all-purpose anti-seize that I have has
lasted me 15 - 20 years, so far, 2 oz should be plenty.

Bob

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 28 May 2010 19:16:58 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote the following:

bharbour wrote:
If you are having trouble getting those Phillips head screws out,
get a hand impact driver. 20 years of working on motorcycles
demonstrated the value of these inexpensive tools to me. With a
proper fitting driver tip and a few whacks with a hammer, almost
any screw will come out.

I'm glad you said "almost" any screw. I've BEEN whacking on my
impact driver & all that's happened is I've bent the "flutes" of the
phillips bit! http://home.comcast.net/~bobengelhardt/MangledBit.jpg

The part that these screws are in is going to be replaced, so
drilling-out is the next step.

Quite often, when a bolt or screw won't back out, I'll reverse the
impact and give it a go that way. The next reverse impact usually
pulls it out. It just wanted to be loosened by tightening. Maybe
they're feminine screws using feminine logic, I dunno.

Plus, just twist a little as you whack, so it generates more downward force
compared to the rotational force. Kinda "unloads" the threads a bit more.

I'd even try switching back and forth multiple times in addition to the usual
penetrating oil tricks.

On Fri, 28 May 2010 18:34:37 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

I am repairing an aluminum brake (i.e., a brake for bending aluminum
house flashing/cladding). It is made of aluminum castings and
extrusions, held together with steel bolts and screws. Every single
bolt/screw is corroded in place! Not so much rusted as bound-up by
corrosion of the aluminum it's in. AND ... all the screw are Phillips
head! &!@^&%^%$&*?!

Anyhow, I WILL get the screws out and when I put it back together I will
not use Phillips heads and I will coat them. So, the question is: do I
coat them with anti-seize, or with anti-oxidant? If anti-seize, does it
matter which form?

Thanks,
Bob

Burndy Penetrox A. It's used on aluminum antenna towers. The
metallic particles are zinc. $13.95 for an 8 oz squeeze bottle, a
lifetime supply for the likes of we. I'd give a cite but I'm on very
slow dial up for a few days. Google Penetrox, you'll find it.

I smear a dab of this stuff on ally lightbulb bases before screwing
them in. I haven't had a stuck light bulb in a decade.

Don Foreman wrote:

On Fri, 28 May 2010 18:34:37 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

I am repairing an aluminum brake (i.e., a brake for bending aluminum
house flashing/cladding). It is made of aluminum castings and
extrusions, held together with steel bolts and screws. Every single
bolt/screw is corroded in place! Not so much rusted as bound-up by
corrosion of the aluminum it's in. AND ... all the screw are Phillips
head! &!@^&%^%$&*?!

Anyhow, I WILL get the screws out and when I put it back together I will
not use Phillips heads and I will coat them. So, the question is: do I
coat them with anti-seize, or with anti-oxidant? If anti-seize, does it
matter which form?

Thanks,
Bob

Burndy Penetrox A. It's used on aluminum antenna towers. The
metallic particles are zinc. $13.95 for an 8 oz squeeze bottle, a
lifetime supply for the likes of we. I'd give a cite but I'm on very
slow dial up for a few days. Google Penetrox, you'll find it.

I smear a dab of this stuff on ally lightbulb bases before screwing
them in. I haven't had a stuck light bulb in a decade.


I had to remove stuck bulbs from a pair of fixtures over my
fireplace. I put a couple drops of Breakfree on top of the bulbs one
eveining, and unscrewed them the next morning with no problems. No
telling how long they had been there. The sockets were brass, and the
bulb bases were cheap aluminum.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On May 29, 1:03*am, Don Foreman wrote:
On Fri, 28 May 2010 18:34:37 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
...

Burndy Penetrox A. *It's used on aluminum antenna towers. *...

Ox-Gard OX-100 also works well on aluminum antennas with stainless
hardware.

LPS-3 has kept steel bolts from freezing in aluminum on the engine of
my 20 year old truck. It seems to protect zinc from rainwater quite
well too. It's a little less effective against road salt and tannic
acid from oak leaves.

jsw

Larry Jaques wrote:
Quite often, when a bolt or screw won't back out, I'll reverse the
impact and give it a go that way. The next reverse impact usually
pulls it out. ...

Thanks - I've heard of this but don't generally do it, so I tried it.
Several times, on 2 different screws - no good.

I'm getting the drill!

Bob

Gentlemen, we seem to have convergence.

This has been an interesting thread - replies that said use zinc
anti-seize and another or 2 for anti-ox (e.g., Penetrox). Looking up
Penetrox, I find that it's zinc based! As is my bottle of Noalox. The
MSDS for Noalox shows that it's only 20% zinc, so I'd say zinc
anti-seize would be better, but still basically the same thing.

Thanks to all,
Bob

"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
anews.com...
You'd best move up to stainless fasteners. AL does this to steel.

karl

Karl: I had a sailboat out in the Marshall Islands and the SS bolts thru
the aluminum mast and cross tubes quickly corroded. The mild steel bolts
actually lasted longer but in the end corroded also. The zinc based
anti-seize made a big difference.

stu Fields

On May 28, 6:34*pm, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
I am repairing an aluminum brake (i.e., a brake for bending aluminum
house flashing/cladding). *It is made of aluminum castings and
extrusions, held together with steel bolts and screws. *Every single
bolt/screw is corroded in place! *Not so much rusted as bound-up by
corrosion of the aluminum it's in. *AND ... all the screw are Phillips
head! &!@^&%^%$&*?!

Anyhow, I WILL get the screws out and when I put it back together I will
not use Phillips heads and I will coat them. *So, the question is: do I
coat them with anti-seize, or with anti-oxidant? *If anti-seize, does it
matter which form?

Thanks,
Bob

I spoke to a gentleman who runs an outboard motor shop. Outboards are
typically made of aluminum castings with stainless fasteners. He
recommended to me that I use pipe dope to coat the threads instead of
anti-seize. I used Rectorseal, and the next time I dissasembled my
motor it came apart easily.

Good luck,
Andy

On May 28, 4:34*pm, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
I am repairing an aluminum brake (i.e., a brake for bending aluminum
house flashing/cladding). *It is made of aluminum castings and
extrusions, held together with steel bolts and screws. *Every single
bolt/screw is corroded in place! *Not so much rusted as bound-up by
corrosion of the aluminum it's in. *AND ... all the screw are Phillips
head! &!@^&%^%$&*?!

Anyhow, I WILL get the screws out and when I put it back together I will
not use Phillips heads and I will coat them. *So, the question is: do I
coat them with anti-seize, or with anti-oxidant? *If anti-seize, does it
matter which form?

Thanks,
Bob

In my experience, anti-sieze is used on fasteners, anti-oxidant is
used between aluminum electrical components. I've used teflon pipe
dope, like the other poster, on steel fasteners going into aluminum
car components, it worked. It's a dielectric material, so keeps the
corrosion couple from forming, also excludes liquid and humidity,
which I think is what really does the trick. Probably could use
chewing gum or roofing tar and get the same effect.

Stan

On May 29, 8:38*pm, wrote:

In my experience, anti-sieze is used on fasteners, anti-oxidant is
used between aluminum electrical components. *I've used teflon pipe
dope

Yes!

The problem with different-metal fasteners is partly electrolytic
corrosion, and you can't depend on grease (it squeezes out)
or anti-sieze (which has particles that don't squeeze out,
but which aren't gonna block moisture penetration or oxygen).
Soft solids like teflon are like grease except don't squeeze
out or wash away. I like the teflon tape, myself, but the
pipe dope should work similarly.

DanG wrote:
Don't I remember there being something pretty simple that would
eat the steel bolts and not affect the aluminum? It may have been
alum. ...

Oh, yeah - I remembered nitric acid would dissolve steel, but not
aluminum, and alum does, too. In my case, though, I didn't need to
preserve the aluminum, so drilling out made the most sense. Easy & fast
- I should have just done it in the 1st place.

I've tried the penetrants, the home made Ed's red, electrolysis,
hand impacts, welded on nuts. I guess we all have. It is always
a joy when you get any one of them to work, ...

A joy, indeed - especially satisfying to have avoided making things worse.

It is always satisfying to solve or save or resurrect someone's
old piece of junk. There is always the luxury of saying before
launching in, "it doesn't work now, does it. I guess we can't
hurt it very much. Be aware there are no guarantees."

Ah, "resurrecting" - I love resurrecting.

Just helped a fella get out some bolts on an 85 Subaru PU
catalytic converter. Ended up drilling out the thoroughly
rusted/corroded bolts in the shop. Guessed center pretty well,
the old stuff never let go until I used SAE tap in the metric
holes ( I don't own metric) . He was able to buy new #10's and
reuse the holes.

With any luck, he has skills and/or tools that you don't & will reciprocate.

Bob