PING Don Foreman
 

Wasn't it you that did all the research on the effects of welding and
magnetic field effects on a defib device ? A good friend of a good friend
has a defib , and is unsure about how safe it is to mig and stick weld . I
told him I'd seen some posts here and would try to dig the info up .
Poor SOB was out in his shop a month ago when three (really !!) trees
landed on it during a storm . I was over there helping my friend (Bill the
Machinist) clear the shop out so it can be repaired , and his yard is a
putterer's wet dream .
--
Snag
"90 FLHTCU "Strider"
'39 WLDD "PopCycle"
BS 132/SENS/DOF

PING Don Foreman
 

On Sun, 23 May 2010 20:01:02 -0500, "Snag"
wrote:

Wasn't it you that did all the research on the effects of welding and
magnetic field effects on a defib device ? A good friend of a good friend
has a defib , and is unsure about how safe it is to mig and stick weld . I
told him I'd seen some posts here and would try to dig the info up .
Poor SOB was out in his shop a month ago when three (really !!) trees
landed on it during a storm . I was over there helping my friend (Bill the
Machinist) clear the shop out so it can be repaired , and his yard is a
putterer's wet dream .

T'was I.

What I did was learn from the mfr of the ICD what their spec limits
were for magnetic fields and electric fields. They a

E field 50-60 Hz (AC) 1000V/m - 4000V/m
B field DC (static) 1 mT
B field 50-60 Hz (AC) 0.1 mT

I then did my own "site survey" by measuring the fields in the region
of my torso (before implant) while welding. I made the instrumention
I used to accomplish this except for a digital recording oscilloscope
I borrowed from a friend.

I can't say what might be safe for someone else because equipment and
welding practices may be very different. I did find that lead dress
was quite helpful in minimizing magnetic field strengths. I keep the
stinger cable as close as possible to the ground as much as possible
(even twist them) and I'm diligent about not having the stinger cable
form a loop near me.

I'm confident about stick and MIG, but I haven't tried TIG yet. The
electric fields approached the limits. They're easy to shield
against, I just haven't gotten around to making a shielding garment --
as perhaps a vest with Litz wire sewn into it. I actually think there
wouldn't be a problem because the HV in a TIG is also HF which
wouldn't penetrate very far into the body. In fact, that's exactly
why they use HF.

PING Don Foreman
 

In article ,
Don Foreman wrote:
against, I just haven't gotten around to making a shielding garment --
as perhaps a vest with Litz wire sewn into it.

How about a fencing scoring lame' (Metalized vest for foil/jacket for
saber) and ground it? Wear it under your leathers.

Just a thought

PING Don Foreman
 

Don Foreman wrote:
On Sun, 23 May 2010 20:01:02 -0500, "Snag"
wrote:

Wasn't it you that did all the research on the effects of welding and
magnetic field effects on a defib device ? A good friend of a good
friend has a defib , and is unsure about how safe it is to mig and
stick weld . I told him I'd seen some posts here and would try to
dig the info up . Poor SOB was out in his shop a month ago when
three (really !!) trees landed on it during a storm . I was over
there helping my friend (Bill the Machinist) clear the shop out so
it can be repaired , and his yard is a putterer's wet dream .

T'was I.

What I did was learn from the mfr of the ICD what their spec limits
were for magnetic fields and electric fields. They a

E field 50-60 Hz (AC) 1000V/m - 4000V/m
B field DC (static) 1 mT
B field 50-60 Hz (AC) 0.1 mT

I then did my own "site survey" by measuring the fields in the region
of my torso (before implant) while welding. I made the instrumention
I used to accomplish this except for a digital recording oscilloscope
I borrowed from a friend.

I can't say what might be safe for someone else because equipment and
welding practices may be very different. I did find that lead dress
was quite helpful in minimizing magnetic field strengths. I keep the
stinger cable as close as possible to the ground as much as possible
(even twist them) and I'm diligent about not having the stinger cable
form a loop near me.

I'm confident about stick and MIG, but I haven't tried TIG yet. The
electric fields approached the limits. They're easy to shield
against, I just haven't gotten around to making a shielding garment --
as perhaps a vest with Litz wire sewn into it. I actually think there
wouldn't be a problem because the HV in a TIG is also HF which
wouldn't penetrate very far into the body. In fact, that's exactly
why they use HF.

Thanks Don , I will forward this info to Larry .

--
Snag
"90 FLHTCU "Strider"
'39 WLDD "PopCycle"
BS 132/SENS/DOF

PING Don Foreman
 

On Mon, 24 May 2010 07:15:41 -0400, John Husvar
wrote:

In article ,
Don Foreman wrote:
against, I just haven't gotten around to making a shielding garment --
as perhaps a vest with Litz wire sewn into it.

How about a fencing scoring lame' (Metalized vest for foil/jacket for
saber) and ground it? Wear it under your leathers.

Just a thought

Excellent lead!

Fencing scoring lame is quite expensive, but investigating that lead
me to
http://www.lessemf.com/fabric.html
where I found quite a few possibilities at very reasonable cost.

Thanks!

PING Don Foreman
 

Fencing scoring lame is quite expensive, but investigating that lead
me to
http://www.lessemf.com/fabric.html
where I found quite a few possibilities at very reasonable cost.


There's a nice little business opportunity. Make up a few dozen RF welding
aprons complete with a certified study of how well it works and start
marketing them. Just do eBay, Craig's list and a couple newsgroups for your
advertising

Karl

PING Don Foreman
 

On May 24, 8:34*am, Don Foreman wrote:
On Mon, 24 May 2010 07:15:41 -0400, John Husvar

wrote:
In article ,
Don Foreman wrote:
against, I just haven't gotten around to making a shielding garment --
as perhaps a vest with Litz wire sewn into it. *

How about a fencing scoring lame' (Metalized vest for foil/jacket for
saber) and ground it? Wear it under your leathers.

Just a thought

Excellent lead! *

Fencing scoring lame is quite expensive, but investigating that lead
me tohttp://www.lessemf.com/fabric.html
where I found quite a few possibilities at very reasonable cost.

Thanks!

Wow! What a fascinating web site! I had no idea such material was
possible.

Thanks, Paul

PING Don Foreman
 

On Mon, 24 May 2010 10:34:21 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Mon, 24 May 2010 07:15:41 -0400, John Husvar
wrote:

In article ,
Don Foreman wrote:
against, I just haven't gotten around to making a shielding garment --
as perhaps a vest with Litz wire sewn into it.

How about a fencing scoring lame' (Metalized vest for foil/jacket for
saber) and ground it? Wear it under your leathers.

Just a thought

Excellent lead!

Fencing scoring lame is quite expensive, but investigating that lead
me to
http://www.lessemf.com/fabric.html
where I found quite a few possibilities at very reasonable cost.

Thanks!

These guys even have ready-made EMI garments! Scroll down to the tee
shirt at
http://www.lessemf.com/personal.html

The primary concern with stick and MIG welding is magnetic field,
which this would not be effective against. It will provide good
protection against the HF E-fields of TIG using spark-start.

Shielding against low-frequency (50-60Hz) and DC magnetic fields is
not practical short of a fairly heavy mu-metal breastplate. Mu metal
is very expensive, and if shaped or worked it must then be
hydrogen-annealed to restore its magnetic properties.
The best way to deal with magnetic fields is to minimize the fields in
the first place. With care, welding currents of up to 200 amps are
possible.

I would say that spot welding is not possible for a person with an
ICD. I wouldn't get within 20 feet of a spot welder.

PING Don Foreman
 

On Mon, 24 May 2010 10:34:21 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Mon, 24 May 2010 07:15:41 -0400, John Husvar
wrote:

In article ,
Don Foreman wrote:
against, I just haven't gotten around to making a shielding garment --
as perhaps a vest with Litz wire sewn into it.

How about a fencing scoring lame' (Metalized vest for foil/jacket for
saber) and ground it? Wear it under your leathers.

Just a thought

Excellent lead!

Fencing scoring lame is quite expensive, but investigating that lead
me to
http://www.lessemf.com/fabric.html
where I found quite a few possibilities at very reasonable cost.

Thanks!


From the same link...rather fascinating when thought upon....

http://www.liebertonline.com/doi/abs...cm.2004.10.767


Gunner

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

PING Don Foreman
 

On 2010-05-24, Don Foreman wrote:
On Mon, 24 May 2010 10:34:21 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Mon, 24 May 2010 07:15:41 -0400, John Husvar
wrote:

In article ,
Don Foreman wrote:
against, I just haven't gotten around to making a shielding garment --
as perhaps a vest with Litz wire sewn into it.

How about a fencing scoring lame' (Metalized vest for foil/jacket for
saber) and ground it? Wear it under your leathers.

Just a thought

Excellent lead!

Fencing scoring lame is quite expensive, but investigating that lead
me to
http://www.lessemf.com/fabric.html
where I found quite a few possibilities at very reasonable cost.

Thanks!

These guys even have ready-made EMI garments! Scroll down to the tee
shirt at
http://www.lessemf.com/personal.html

Hmm ... Perhaps EMI resistant yarmulkes for those who spend a
lot of time on cell phones and are worried about brain cancer form the
RFI?

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

PING Don Foreman
 

On 25 May 2010 03:09:56 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2010-05-24, Don Foreman wrote:
On Mon, 24 May 2010 10:34:21 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Mon, 24 May 2010 07:15:41 -0400, John Husvar
wrote:

In article ,
Don Foreman wrote:
against, I just haven't gotten around to making a shielding garment --
as perhaps a vest with Litz wire sewn into it.

How about a fencing scoring lame' (Metalized vest for foil/jacket for
saber) and ground it? Wear it under your leathers.

Just a thought

Excellent lead!

Fencing scoring lame is quite expensive, but investigating that lead
me to
http://www.lessemf.com/fabric.html
where I found quite a few possibilities at very reasonable cost.

Thanks!

These guys even have ready-made EMI garments! Scroll down to the tee
shirt at
http://www.lessemf.com/personal.html

Hmm ... Perhaps EMI resistant yarmulkes for those who spend a
lot of time on cell phones and are worried about brain cancer form the
RFI?


This vendor does offer balaclava shields. Catalog #A219, $59.95. They
are most effective in brain cancer risk reduction if used while
jabbering into the cellphone at an airport in a tongue other than
English or Spanish.

PING Don Foreman
 

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Mon, 24 May 2010 09:10:04 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote the following:

On May 24, 8:34 am, Don Foreman wrote:
On Mon, 24 May 2010 07:15:41 -0400, John Husvar

wrote:
In article ,
Don Foreman wrote:
against, I just haven't gotten around to making a shielding garment --
as perhaps a vest with Litz wire sewn into it.

How about a fencing scoring lame' (Metalized vest for foil/jacket for
saber) and ground it? Wear it under your leathers.

Just a thought

Excellent lead!

Fencing scoring lame is quite expensive, but investigating that lead
me tohttp://www.lessemf.com/fabric.html
where I found quite a few possibilities at very reasonable cost.

Thanks!

Wow! What a fascinating web site! I had no idea such material was
possible.

Now we can make _comfortable_ tinfoil hats that aliens waves can't
penetrate!


That was last millenium's model. The new ones are underground, and
aimed straight up.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

PING Don Foreman
 

On Mon, 24 May 2010 23:41:07 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:



This vendor does offer balaclava shields. Catalog #A219, $59.95. They
are most effective in brain cancer risk reduction if used while
jabbering into the cellphone at an airport in a tongue other than
English or Spanish.

Could increase the risk of lead poisoning though :-(


Mark Rand
RTFM

PING Don Foreman
 

On Fri, 28 May 2010 23:38:04 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote:

On Mon, 24 May 2010 23:41:07 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:



This vendor does offer balaclava shields. Catalog #A219, $59.95. They
are most effective in brain cancer risk reduction if used while
jabbering into the cellphone at an airport in a tongue other than
English or Spanish.

Could increase the risk of lead poisoning though :-(


Mark Rand
RTFM

That's how they reduce the risk of brain cancer! :)

BTW, Mark, my UK rellies (daughter, SIL and granddaughter) will visit
this summer. SIL is a born and raised Londoner. Last visit, at a
time when I was just getting interested in shooting handguns, Hassan
couldn't get enough gunsmoke. Took two range visits to sate his
appetite. I'd previously taught him to shoot a scoped air rifle
(Webley) from the window of his London flat to bust magpies (legal in
London) and he found that he enjoyed the challenge of marksmanship.

My collection has grown significantly since then, and he'll be here
during summertime this visit so we can shoot outdoors at reactive
targets like water bottles that flat explode when hit. We are gunna
have us a bang-up good time!