Check out this link for a 2" hole being drilled through a 3/4" piece of
steel with the 5160-x series AutoDrill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29oswoasnLQ

We haven't quite solved the chip build-up issue yet given the different
diameter holes that can be drilled, etc. See the problem he

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DJiDKnuHuI

We think that either a stationary bar next to the tool or some type of peck
cycle will help solve the issue but given the fact that we're two days into
the 2" diameter process, I figure we're doing okay.

Note that the chip issue in the first video is solved by having an
interrupted cut. In other words, the large 2" hole intersected with a
another hole just ever so slightly so that the chip was not continuous.

Would love thoughts from the experts on the chip break issue. Will try to
answer any legitimate questions asked.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill

V8013-R

Joe AutoDrill wrote:
Check out this link for a 2" hole being drilled through a 3/4" piece of
steel with the 5160-x series AutoDrill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29oswoasnLQ

We haven't quite solved the chip build-up issue yet given the different
diameter holes that can be drilled, etc. See the problem he

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DJiDKnuHuI

We think that either a stationary bar next to the tool or some type of peck
cycle will help solve the issue but given the fact that we're two days into
the 2" diameter process, I figure we're doing okay.

Note that the chip issue in the first video is solved by having an
interrupted cut. In other words, the large 2" hole intersected with a
another hole just ever so slightly so that the chip was not continuous.

Would love thoughts from the experts on the chip break issue. Will try to
answer any legitimate questions asked.

I think it'd have some monster contributions to the swarf collection.

I don't think a stationary bar would do it. A much quicker peck cycle
would -- all you'd have to do is ease up on the pressure, or stop the
tool advance momentarily. Is your motion controller up to that, or
would that be asking too much? What do you use for actuators and
controllers?

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

I think it'd have some monster contributions to the swarf collection.

I don't think a stationary bar would do it. A much quicker peck cycle
would -- all you'd have to do is ease up on the pressure, or stop the tool
advance momentarily. Is your motion controller up to that, or would that
be asking too much? What do you use for actuators and controllers?

That's what we were thinking... (oscillation of feed)... Sorta like this
but with a much shorter rate between retract and feed:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNfA1Qew7wE

Specificlaly notice that it picks up where it left off so a shorter peck
should do it...

The forward stroke is our unit so we can do whatever is needed... It's
essentially an air cylinder so we are at the mercy of exhaust rates, but it
can be / has been done to some degree already.

For controllers, everything shown here is pneumatic, but we can use a PLC to
do the timing... Proximity sensors, etc. are no problem. I simply
performed the test on our in-house assembly stand because I thought it would
be easy to assemble, film, test, etc. The next test will be with a PLC or
some type of better control.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill

V8013-R

On 5/21/2010 11:17 AM, Joe AutoDrill wrote:

(...)

The forward stroke is our unit so we can do whatever is needed... It's
essentially an air cylinder so we are at the mercy of exhaust rates, but it
can be / has been done to some degree already.

Pneumatic modulator in parallel with your control valve?
Test by removing the reed valve from a small compressor
and close it's intake port. (It'll play hell with your
closed loop position feedback circuit though.)

--Winston

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote in message
...
Check out this link for a 2" hole being drilled through a 3/4" piece of
steel with the 5160-x series AutoDrill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29oswoasnLQ

We haven't quite solved the chip build-up issue yet given the different
diameter holes that can be drilled, etc. See the problem he

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DJiDKnuHuI

We think that either a stationary bar next to the tool or some type of
peck
cycle will help solve the issue but given the fact that we're two days
into the 2" diameter process, I figure we're doing okay.

Note that the chip issue in the first video is solved by having an
interrupted cut. In other words, the large 2" hole intersected with a
another hole just ever so slightly so that the chip was not continuous.

Would love thoughts from the experts on the chip break issue. Will try to
answer any legitimate questions asked.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill

V8013-R



What if you had a separate air valve that went between the "cylinder extend"
and exhaust. Then pulse the valve to oscillate the pressure on the feed
cylinder.

On Fri, 21 May 2010 12:34:08 -0400, "Joe AutoDrill"
wrote:

Check out this link for a 2" hole being drilled through a 3/4" piece of
steel with the 5160-x series AutoDrill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29oswoasnLQ

We haven't quite solved the chip build-up issue yet given the different
diameter holes that can be drilled, etc. See the problem he

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DJiDKnuHuI

We think that either a stationary bar next to the tool or some type of peck
cycle will help solve the issue but given the fact that we're two days into
the 2" diameter process, I figure we're doing okay.

Note that the chip issue in the first video is solved by having an
interrupted cut. In other words, the large 2" hole intersected with a
another hole just ever so slightly so that the chip was not continuous.

Would love thoughts from the experts on the chip break issue. Will try to
answer any legitimate questions asked.

Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill

V8013-R


the chip issue in the first video is solved by having an interrupted
cut the 2" hole intersected with a another hole just ever so slightly
so that the chip was not continuous.

What? There is another small hole matching the chip width on the 2"
diameter?

Lost me.

"Sunworshipper" wrote in message
...

snip
the chip issue in the first video is solved by having an interrupted
cut the 2" hole intersected with a another hole just ever so slightly
so that the chip was not continuous.

What? There is another small hole matching the chip width on the 2"
diameter?

Lost me.

The cutter is trepanning the hole, not drilling it.

On 05/21/2010 12:31 PM, Winston wrote:
On 5/21/2010 11:17 AM, Joe AutoDrill wrote:

(...)

The forward stroke is our unit so we can do whatever is needed... It's
essentially an air cylinder so we are at the mercy of exhaust rates,
but it
can be / has been done to some degree already.

Pneumatic modulator in parallel with your control valve?
Test by removing the reed valve from a small compressor
and close it's intake port. (It'll play hell with your
closed loop position feedback circuit though.)

That's kind of what I was thinking, only I didn't realize that there was
an off the shelf chingus you could go buy.

If you have a way of knowing when you're actually drilling, don't start
modulating the pressure until you're in contact. Then modulate it such
that the drill never retracts -- just eases up enough to break the chips.

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

On May 21, 12:34*pm, "Joe AutoDrill" wrote:
We think that either a stationary bar next to the tool or some type of peck
cycle will help solve the issue but given the fact that we're two days into
the 2" diameter process, I figure we're doing okay.

I've never had any success with a post beside the hole. Most steels
are too flexible to get caught and break, especially if you can't
harden the chip by having a high surface speed (carbide).

Pecking is good but from the videos you're losing a lot of time with
retract speed. Also, you may experience high cutter wear because the
pneumatic cylinder has some squish to it as the cutter makes contact
with the work. You get rubbing instead of cutting for a brief instant,
which can be pretty nasty on alloy and stainless steels. Hydraulic
would be better, though a lot more of a pain if you don't already have
all the support equipment. Much more controllable too.

I guess you don't have the torque and linear force to run an indexable
drill? They have excellent chip breaking capability.

You can get indexable trepanning tools but they usually start at Ø3"+
and they look pricey.

Regards,

Robin

"Joe AutoDrill" wrote:

We haven't quite solved the chip build-up issue yet given the different
diameter holes that can be drilled, etc. See the problem he

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DJiDKnuHuI

We think that either a stationary bar next to the tool or some type of peck
cycle will help solve the issue but given the fact that we're two days into
the 2" diameter process, I figure we're doing okay.


They make pressure regulators that take 4-20MA or 0-10v inputs so you could just ease up
periodically and see if that works.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

What? There is another small hole matching the chip width on the 2"
diameter?

Essentially, the 2" hole was directly over a smaller 1/4" hole. Thus, the
chip never could form in a 360 degree situation. Every time the cutter got
to the 1/4" hole area, the chip ceased to exist for a small amount of time
and thus broke off, spun off and disappeared.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill

V8013-R

The cutter is trepanning the hole, not drilling it.

Agreed. It is essentially a fancy hole saw and not a "twist drill" per say.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill

V8013-R

Pecking is good but from the videos you're losing a lot of time with
retract speed.

The peck shown was mesy and manual. The guy doing it had no idea what I had
in mind and thus wasted a lot of time on the retract. All I wanted to see
was a split second removal of the thrust but alas, he thought I wanted full
retraction. An automatic, adjustable timer fixes that, especially if PLC
controlled and adjustable.

Also, you may experience high cutter wear because the
pneumatic cylinder has some squish to it as the cutter makes contact
with the work. You get rubbing instead of cutting for a brief instant,
which can be pretty nasty on alloy and stainless steels.

Excellent point.

Hydraulic
would be better, though a lot more of a pain if you don't already have
all the support equipment. Much more controllable too.

Hydraulic is more than possible. We do it often enough to handle it. The
only thing I don't like about the hydraulic is... well... the oil.

I guess you don't have the torque and linear force to run an indexable
drill? They have excellent chip breaking capability.

Depends on the hole size. I can go to 3 HP with very low RPM and create up
to around 1500 lbs. of thrust. However, the machine is only about 120 lbs.
total so it's not going to be nearly as steady as a Bridgeport or even very
large drill press, etc. It's tough to make a hole with standard tooling
(step works) at that size as the micro-vibrations simply kill some tooling.

The problem isn't so much the stability of my drill, but the fact that
nobody wants to build a 5,000 lb. fixture to hook up a 100 lb. drill.

You can get indexable trepanning tools but they usually start at Ø3"+
and they look pricey.

I'm selling the machine, not the tooling so...

Thanks as always for the thoughts Robin. You and a few others around here
make the group worthwhile above and beyond the entertainment value of the
spam.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill

V8013-R

On 05/24/2010 04:56 AM, Joe AutoDrill wrote:
The cutter is trepanning the hole, not drilling it.

Agreed. It is essentially a fancy hole saw and not a "twist drill" per say.

Imagine the amount of swarf you'd have if it was!

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

On 05/21/2010 09:34 AM, Joe AutoDrill wrote:
Check out this link for a 2" hole being drilled through a 3/4" piece of
steel with the 5160-x series AutoDrill.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29oswoasnLQ

We haven't quite solved the chip build-up issue yet given the different
diameter holes that can be drilled, etc. See the problem he

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DJiDKnuHuI

We think that either a stationary bar next to the tool or some type of peck
cycle will help solve the issue but given the fact that we're two days into
the 2" diameter process, I figure we're doing okay.

Note that the chip issue in the first video is solved by having an
interrupted cut. In other words, the large 2" hole intersected with a
another hole just ever so slightly so that the chip was not continuous.

Would love thoughts from the experts on the chip break issue. Will try to
answer any legitimate questions asked.

By the way:

Are you going to tell us how things work out, or will we be left hanging?

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com

On May 24, 8:02*am, "Joe AutoDrill" wrote:
I guess you don't have the torque and linear force to run an indexable
drill? They have excellent chip breaking capability.

Depends on the hole size. *I can go to 3 HP with very low RPM and create up
to around 1500 lbs. of thrust. *However, the machine is only about 120 lbs.
total so it's not going to be nearly as steady as a Bridgeport or even very
large drill press, etc. *It's tough to make a hole with standard tooling
(step works) at that size as the micro-vibrations simply kill some tooling.

The problem isn't so much the stability of my drill, but the fact that
nobody wants to build a 5,000 lb. fixture to hook up a 100 lb. drill.

Running a ~Ø1.0 indexable drill (two inserts which work out to one
flute) in 6061 aluminum on our cnc lathe, spindle reaches about 40% of
10hp. That's 0.785sq" of area at 42ksi tensile. 2" works out to
3.14sq" at 60ksi (1018 mild steel). That's quite a bit more...


You can get indexable trepanning tools but they usually start at Ø3"+
and they look pricey.

I'm selling the machine, not the tooling so... *

Yup. Couldn't hurt to contact the company about your app.


Thanks as always for the thoughts Robin. *You and a few others around here
make the group worthwhile above and beyond the entertainment value of the
spam. *
--

Glad I could be of some use

Regards,

Robin

Are you going to tell us how things work out, or will we be left hanging?

Of course... But don't hold your breath. This is one of those "when we
have spare time, work on new idea" projects that sees my attention every few
days at best.
--


Regards,
Joe Agro, Jr.
(800) 871-5022
01.908.542.0244
Automatic / Pneumatic Drills: http://www.AutoDrill.com
Multiple Spindle Drills: http://www.Multi-Drill.com
Production Tapping: http://Production-Tapping-Equipment.com/
Flagship Site: http://www.Drill-N-Tap.com
VIDEOS: http://www.youtube.com/user/AutoDrill

V8013-R

Joe AutoDrill wrote:

Hydraulic is more than possible. We do it often enough to handle it. The
only thing I don't like about the hydraulic is... well... the oil.



If you can control where it leaks, you've got instant cooling!


technomaNge
--
I am a racist.

I am a racist because I think this should be a country of law abiding
citizens instead of a country where people with power get away with
anything they want.

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apply to citizens, non-citizens have a limited set of rights that are
granted temporarily. If non-citizens break our laws they go home.

I am a racist because I want my taxes to pay for strong defence of this
country, not abortions or social programs.

I am a racist because I believe any politician foolish enough to ask for
a poll before taking a position should follow the results of that poll.
People didn't want the healthcare reform, it got passed anyway.

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promises.

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their decisions.

I am a racist because I believe tolerance means when you say Allah I can
hear it as Jesus and when I say Jesus you can hear it as Allah. If it
doesn't work that way on your side, you aren't tolerant.

I am a racist because I believe all Americans have equal opportunity.
Equalizing wealth is not a function of government.