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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

My overhead garage doors use extension springs. I thought I might
convert to torsion springs and looked on the web for a kit. All I could
find was the springs themselves, and various other parts. No complete
installation package. And I did a LOT of searching - probably 2 hours'
worth.

This is strange - my conclusion is that the installation package comes
with the door (tracks, hinges, rollers, springs, etc) and that's it.
What about if you wanted to build your own door? You'd think that you
could get a kit SOMEWHERE.

It looks like I would have to buy all the parts separately - hoping that
I got ones that went with each other. And, of course, paying a
premium over what a package/kit would cost.

Frustrated and baffled,
Bob
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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

Bob Engelhardt wrote:
My overhead garage doors use extension springs. I thought I might
convert to torsion springs and looked on the web for a kit. All I could
find was the springs themselves, and various other parts. No complete
installation package. And I did a LOT of searching - probably 2 hours'
worth.

This is strange - my conclusion is that the installation package comes
with the door (tracks, hinges, rollers, springs, etc) and that's it.
What about if you wanted to build your own door? You'd think that you
could get a kit SOMEWHERE.

It looks like I would have to buy all the parts separately - hoping that
I got ones that went with each other. And, of course, paying a premium
over what a package/kit would cost.

Frustrated and baffled,
Bob


Talk to an installer. Most of them can get you the conversion parts easy
enough. We converted three doors at out station a while ago.

--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")
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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs


"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
My overhead garage doors use extension springs. I thought I might convert
to torsion springs and looked on the web for a kit. All I could find was
the springs themselves, and various other parts. No complete installation
package. And I did a LOT of searching - probably 2 hours' worth.

This is strange - my conclusion is that the installation package comes
with the door (tracks, hinges, rollers, springs, etc) and that's it. What
about if you wanted to build your own door? You'd think that you could
get a kit SOMEWHERE.

It looks like I would have to buy all the parts separately - hoping that I
got ones that went with each other. And, of course, paying a premium over
what a package/kit would cost.

Frustrated and baffled,
Bob


Join the garage-door-spring baffled. Beware torsion springs. They are
killers to install unless you're an expert.

Do a bunch of Web searching before installing.

--
Ed Huntress


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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

On May 16, 8:27*pm, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
My overhead garage doors use extension springs. *I thought I might
convert to torsion springs and looked on the web for a kit. *All I could
find was the springs themselves, and various other parts. *No complete
installation package. *And I did a LOT of searching - probably 2 hours'
worth.

This is strange - my conclusion is that the installation package comes
with the door (tracks, hinges, rollers, springs, etc) and that's it.
What about if you wanted to build your own door? *You'd think that you
could get a kit SOMEWHERE.

It looks like I would have to buy all the parts separately - hoping that
* I got ones that went with each other. *And, of course, paying a
premium over what a package/kit would cost.

Frustrated and baffled,
Bob


If you haven't seen it, Richard Kinch has an excellent article on his
adventures with garage door torsion springs: http://www.truetex.com/garage.htm
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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

On May 16, 7:27*pm, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
My overhead garage doors use extension springs. *I thought I might
convert to torsion springs and looked on the web for a kit. *All I could
find was the springs themselves, and various other parts. *No complete
installation package. *And I did a LOT of searching - probably 2 hours'
worth.

This is strange - my conclusion is that the installation package comes
with the door (tracks, hinges, rollers, springs, etc) and that's it.
What about if you wanted to build your own door? *You'd think that you
could get a kit SOMEWHERE.

It looks like I would have to buy all the parts separately - hoping that
* I got ones that went with each other. *And, of course, paying a
premium over what a package/kit would cost.

Frustrated and baffled,
Bob


You could go back in time and use what my granddaddy did, wire cable,
pulleys and boxes of sand and busted concrete. Lasted longer than he
did, which is more than you can say for a lot of the spring
counterbalances these days. Pure profit centers for the door
installers, they KNOW they'll be back. Not sure torsion springs would
be an improvement anyway. When they go SPROING, there's a whole lot
more energy involved.

Stan


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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

On Sun, 16 May 2010 21:27:07 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

My overhead garage doors use extension springs. I thought I might
convert to torsion springs and looked on the web for a kit. All I could
find was the springs themselves, and various other parts. No complete
installation package. And I did a LOT of searching - probably 2 hours'
worth.

This is strange - my conclusion is that the installation package comes
with the door (tracks, hinges, rollers, springs, etc) and that's it.
What about if you wanted to build your own door? You'd think that you
could get a kit SOMEWHERE.

It looks like I would have to buy all the parts separately - hoping that
I got ones that went with each other. And, of course, paying a
premium over what a package/kit would cost.

Frustrated and baffled,
Bob


Why do you want to convert from extension springs to torsion springs?
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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs


"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
My overhead garage doors use extension springs. I thought I might
convert to torsion springs and looked on the web for a kit. All I could
find was the springs themselves, and various other parts. No complete
installation package. And I did a LOT of searching - probably 2 hours'
worth.

This is strange - my conclusion is that the installation package comes
with the door (tracks, hinges, rollers, springs, etc) and that's it.
What about if you wanted to build your own door? You'd think that you
could get a kit SOMEWHERE.

It looks like I would have to buy all the parts separately - hoping that
I got ones that went with each other. And, of course, paying a
premium over what a package/kit would cost.

Frustrated and baffled,
Bob


I suspect that you don't see kits for this as typically one piece garage
doors use the extension springs and the sectional doors use the torsion
springs.

What kind of garage door do you have?

--
Roger Shoaf
If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent.



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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

On May 16, 10:41*pm, wrote:
On May 16, 7:27*pm, Bob Engelhardt wrote:



My overhead garage doors use extension springs. *I thought I might
convert to torsion springs and looked on the web for a kit. *All I could
find was the springs themselves, and various other parts. *No complete
installation package. *And I did a LOT of searching - probably 2 hours'
worth.


This is strange - my conclusion is that the installation package comes
with the door (tracks, hinges, rollers, springs, etc) and that's it.
What about if you wanted to build your own door? *You'd think that you
could get a kit SOMEWHERE.


It looks like I would have to buy all the parts separately - hoping that
* I got ones that went with each other. *And, of course, paying a
premium over what a package/kit would cost.


Frustrated and baffled,
Bob


You could go back in time and use what my granddaddy did, wire cable,
pulleys and boxes of sand and busted concrete. Lasted longer than he
did, which is more than you can say for a lot of the spring
counterbalances these days. *Pure profit centers for the door
installers, they KNOW they'll be back. *Not sure torsion springs would
be an improvement anyway. *When they go SPROING, there's a whole lot
more energy involved.

Stan


Did he work out a way to lessen the force as the door went up?

Dave
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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

On Mon, 17 May 2010 00:13:24 -0700, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote the following:


"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
My overhead garage doors use extension springs. I thought I might
convert to torsion springs and looked on the web for a kit. All I could
find was the springs themselves, and various other parts. No complete
installation package. And I did a LOT of searching - probably 2 hours'
worth.

This is strange - my conclusion is that the installation package comes
with the door (tracks, hinges, rollers, springs, etc) and that's it.
What about if you wanted to build your own door? You'd think that you
could get a kit SOMEWHERE.

It looks like I would have to buy all the parts separately - hoping that
I got ones that went with each other. And, of course, paying a
premium over what a package/kit would cost.

Frustrated and baffled,
Bob


I suspect that you don't see kits for this as typically one piece garage
doors use the extension springs and the sectional doors use the torsion
springs.


Oh, duh! I'd forgotten that the one-pieces were the only kind to use
extension springs. They had no tracks, which are required for
sectionals and torsions. His conversion will be highly unlikely.

It's time for a new door if you want torsion springs, Bob.

--
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our
inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter
the state of facts and evidence. -- John Adams, December 1770
'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials'

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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

Frayed knot, I've seen sectional doors that use extension springs. A safety
for those springs is to install a slightly loose section of chain or cable
thru them (secured at both ends), so they can't fly if they let go.

--
WB
..........


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 May 2010 00:13:24 -0700, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote the following:


"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
My overhead garage doors use extension springs. I thought I might
convert to torsion springs and looked on the web for a kit. All I could
find was the springs themselves, and various other parts. No complete
installation package. And I did a LOT of searching - probably 2 hours'
worth.

This is strange - my conclusion is that the installation package comes
with the door (tracks, hinges, rollers, springs, etc) and that's it.
What about if you wanted to build your own door? You'd think that you
could get a kit SOMEWHERE.

It looks like I would have to buy all the parts separately - hoping that
I got ones that went with each other. And, of course, paying a
premium over what a package/kit would cost.

Frustrated and baffled,
Bob


I suspect that you don't see kits for this as typically one piece garage
doors use the extension springs and the sectional doors use the torsion
springs.


Oh, duh! I'd forgotten that the one-pieces were the only kind to use
extension springs. They had no tracks, which are required for
sectionals and torsions. His conversion will be highly unlikely.

It's time for a new door if you want torsion springs, Bob.

--
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our
inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter
the state of facts and evidence. -- John Adams, December 1770
'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials'




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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 May 2010 00:13:24 -0700, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote the following:


"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
My overhead garage doors use extension springs. I thought I might
convert to torsion springs and looked on the web for a kit. All I could
find was the springs themselves, and various other parts. No complete
installation package. And I did a LOT of searching - probably 2 hours'
worth.

This is strange - my conclusion is that the installation package comes
with the door (tracks, hinges, rollers, springs, etc) and that's it.
What about if you wanted to build your own door? You'd think that you
could get a kit SOMEWHERE.

It looks like I would have to buy all the parts separately - hoping that
I got ones that went with each other. And, of course, paying a
premium over what a package/kit would cost.

Frustrated and baffled,
Bob


I suspect that you don't see kits for this as typically one piece garage
doors use the extension springs and the sectional doors use the torsion
springs.


Oh, duh! I'd forgotten that the one-pieces were the only kind to use
extension springs. They had no tracks, which are required for
sectionals and torsions. His conversion will be highly unlikely.

It's time for a new door if you want torsion springs, Bob.


My garage door is a four-section type with extension springs. So are most of
those in my neighborhood -- except the ones that have converted to power
doors. These are old houses with detached garages.

--
Ed Huntress


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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs


"Wild_Bill" wrote in message
...
Frayed knot, I've seen sectional doors that use extension springs. A
safety for those springs is to install a slightly loose section of chain
or cable thru them (secured at both ends), so they can't fly if they let
go.

--
WB


That's how mine is set up, with a cable running through the springs, down
the track, with a fitting to the bottom of the bottom section.

--
Ed Huntress



.........


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 May 2010 00:13:24 -0700, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote the following:


"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
My overhead garage doors use extension springs. I thought I might
convert to torsion springs and looked on the web for a kit. All I
could
find was the springs themselves, and various other parts. No complete
installation package. And I did a LOT of searching - probably 2 hours'
worth.

This is strange - my conclusion is that the installation package comes
with the door (tracks, hinges, rollers, springs, etc) and that's it.
What about if you wanted to build your own door? You'd think that you
could get a kit SOMEWHERE.

It looks like I would have to buy all the parts separately - hoping
that
I got ones that went with each other. And, of course, paying a
premium over what a package/kit would cost.

Frustrated and baffled,
Bob

I suspect that you don't see kits for this as typically one piece garage
doors use the extension springs and the sectional doors use the torsion
springs.


Oh, duh! I'd forgotten that the one-pieces were the only kind to use
extension springs. They had no tracks, which are required for
sectionals and torsions. His conversion will be highly unlikely.

It's time for a new door if you want torsion springs, Bob.

--
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our
inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter
the state of facts and evidence. -- John Adams, December 1770
'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials'




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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

On Sun, 16 May 2010 22:26:51 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
...
My overhead garage doors use extension springs. I thought I might convert
to torsion springs and looked on the web for a kit. All I could find was
the springs themselves, and various other parts. No complete installation
package. And I did a LOT of searching - probably 2 hours' worth.


You can probably put together what you need from parts if you're
willing to wade through the advice given here
http://www.truetex.com/garage.htm.

This is strange - my conclusion is that the installation package comes
with the door (tracks, hinges, rollers, springs, etc) and that's it. What
about if you wanted to build your own door? You'd think that you could
get a kit SOMEWHERE.


You could hook up with a friendly installer. Look for a hungry one-man
operation. It's unfortunate, but the door distributors have good
reason to be wary of selling to amateurs. Not only do they have to
worry about being sued for errant springs, but even of the customer
tripping on a carpet edge on his way into the store.

One of my favorite recent stories
http://www.aolnews.com/weird-news/ar...dwich/19423893

Notice that he *didn't* sue, which might bring a tear to your eye and
make you feel at bit like you've stepped far enough back in time to
see the last wild bison.

It looks like I would have to buy all the parts separately - hoping that I
got ones that went with each other. And, of course, paying a premium over
what a package/kit would cost.

Frustrated and baffled,
Bob


Join the garage-door-spring baffled. Beware torsion springs. They are
killers to install unless you're an expert.


Nah. If you hire it out the job will likely be done by a couple of 20
year olds who learned most of what they know in their first week. So
how hard can it be? I've done a bunch of them, no big deal really.
Although the type of people who've fallen off a crooked ladder, or
lopped off a finger with a radial arm saw, or accidentally started a
mower while cleaning the blade, shouldn't mess with overhead doors
either. :-)

Some tips -

Winding or unwinding those things requires two levers. I put a spare
in my back pocket. Same thing for the wrench to tighten the clamping
bolts.

Use proper-fitting levers, and don't get careless when inserting them
into the sockets. Work methodically.

Make sure you're standing on a stable ladder. If you notice your arms
getting tired from working out of position, then back up and reset.

Use vise grips to trap the tube in position to keep the lift cables
snug before you start winding.

Do a bunch of Web searching before installing.


Good advice, but heeding it might unnecessarily scare people into
hiring a pro. :-) rant mode on What we ought to be scared of is
hastening the death of DIY.

Anyway, this page http://www.truetex.com/garage.htm is really well
done even if it does contain a lot more info than is required to
install a new door.

Wayne


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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

Dave__67 wrote:
On May 16, 10:41 pm, wrote:
On May 16, 7:27 pm, Bob Engelhardt wrote:



My overhead garage doors use extension springs. I thought I might
convert to torsion springs and looked on the web for a kit. All I could
find was the springs themselves, and various other parts. No complete
installation package. And I did a LOT of searching - probably 2 hours'
worth.
This is strange - my conclusion is that the installation package comes
with the door (tracks, hinges, rollers, springs, etc) and that's it.
What about if you wanted to build your own door? You'd think that you
could get a kit SOMEWHERE.
It looks like I would have to buy all the parts separately - hoping that
I got ones that went with each other. And, of course, paying a
premium over what a package/kit would cost.
Frustrated and baffled,
Bob

You could go back in time and use what my granddaddy did, wire cable,
pulleys and boxes of sand and busted concrete. Lasted longer than he
did, which is more than you can say for a lot of the spring
counterbalances these days. Pure profit centers for the door
installers, they KNOW they'll be back. Not sure torsion springs would
be an improvement anyway. When they go SPROING, there's a whole lot
more energy involved.

Stan


Did he work out a way to lessen the force as the door went up?


I put hanging weights on my sectional garage doors, instead of the
extension springs that came with the kits. Part of the weight is big
steel pipe filled with scrap metal. The rest is a few feet of heavy
chain that hangs below the pipe. As the doors go up, the chain piles on
the floor.
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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

wrote:

When they go SPROING, there's a whole lot
more energy involved.


But that energy is let go around a shaft that constrains the mess. A tension spring might
just fly at you.

Wes


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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

Steve W. wrote:
Talk to an installer. Most of them can get you the conversion parts easy
enough. We converted three doors at out station a while ago.


Good! That's the way it ought to be.

Thanks,
Bob
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Ed Huntress wrote:
Join the garage-door-spring baffled. Beware torsion springs. They are
killers to install unless you're an expert.


I would rely on common sense and an understanding of how it works ...

Do a bunch of Web searching before installing.


from research.

Bob
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wrote:
You can probably put together what you need from parts if you're
willing to wade through the advice given here
http://www.truetex.com/garage.htm.

I saw that page - good stuff. BUt about replacing a spring in an
existing torsion spring opener. My concern is that I could figure that
I needed a frammel, but I wouldn't realize that I needed a gizzled one
instead of the gazzled one that I ordered.

You could hook up with a friendly installer. Look for a hungry one-man
operation. ...


Maybe for the parts, but I like the challenge of doing it myself (DIM).

Thanks,
Bob
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Denis G. wrote:
If you haven't seen it, Richard Kinch has an excellent article on his
adventures with garage door torsion springs: http://www.truetex.com/garage.htm


Yes. In my fruitless search for a installation kit I came across his
page. It's pretty widely cited, I would find that very gratifying.

Bob
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Beryl wrote:
Dave__67 wrote:
On May 16, 10:41 pm, wrote:
You could go back in time and use what my granddaddy did, wire cable,
pulleys and boxes of sand and busted concrete. Lasted longer than he
did, which is more than you can say for a lot of the spring
counterbalances these days. Pure profit centers for the door
installers, they KNOW they'll be back.


I could do that. I've already replaced several springs.

Not sure torsion springs would
be an improvement anyway. When they go SPROING, there's a whole lot
more energy involved.


But it's well constrained. I've had unconstrained tension springs go.
Pretty exciting! That was before I learned about restraining cables.


Did he work out a way to lessen the force as the door went up?


I put hanging weights on my sectional garage doors, instead of the
extension springs that came with the kits. Part of the weight is big
steel pipe filled with scrap metal. The rest is a few feet of heavy
chain that hangs below the pipe. As the doors go up, the chain piles on
the floor.


Cute. I'm thinking about a series of stacked weights that would
progressively be stopped by bumpers. As the stack lowered with the door
opening, the top most one would bumper-off 1st, then the 2nd one, etc.
There might be enough different-ness in it to motivate me G.

Bob




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Don Foreman wrote:
Why do you want to convert from extension springs to torsion springs?


Well, I'm just considering it. It would depend upon the cost, a lot.
Main motivation is the difficulty I have keeping the two springs in
equal tension. When they're not, the door has a tendency to lower in
lurches, as one side then the other jams then releases.

I've also been considering a different scheme for using tension springs
- I'll be posting that.

Bob
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Ed Huntress wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 May 2010 00:13:24 -0700, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote the following:
I suspect that you don't see kits for this as typically one piece garage
doors use the extension springs and the sectional doors use the torsion
springs.

Oh, duh! I'd forgotten that the one-pieces were the only kind to use
extension springs. They had no tracks, which are required for
sectionals and torsions. His conversion will be highly unlikely.

It's time for a new door if you want torsion springs, Bob.


My garage door is a four-section type with extension springs. So are most of
those in my neighborhood -- except the ones that have converted to power
doors. These are old houses with detached garages.


Yeah, around here there are NO one-piece doors, all 4 or 5 sections.
Split between tension and torsion springs.

Bob
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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

On Mon, 17 May 2010 20:01:13 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote the following:

Ed Huntress wrote:
Join the garage-door-spring baffled. Beware torsion springs. They are
killers to install unless you're an expert.


I would rely on common sense and an understanding of how it works ...

Do a bunch of Web searching before installing.


from research.


That's right, folks. You're only 5 minutes from Expert! (OK, an hour,
including research and installation. Unless you're from Jersey?)

After I removed the naughty pine from the garage door, it took me
about an hour to install the extra parts (pulleys, retainers, and
cables which the last owner had kindly tossed up onto the top shelf
instead of into the trash), wind the coils, and balance the door so it
worked with one hand.

Since I didn't have the proper winding rods, I substituted 1/2" drive
extensions. The one time I slipped, the extension whapped the header
soundly, reminding me to pay better attention. The second one I do in
this lifetime won't take nearly as long, I'm sure.

shrug

--
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our
inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter
the state of facts and evidence. -- John Adams, December 1770
'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials'

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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

On Mon, 17 May 2010 20:26:45 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote the following:

Ed Huntress wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 May 2010 00:13:24 -0700, "Roger Shoaf"
wrote the following:
I suspect that you don't see kits for this as typically one piece garage
doors use the extension springs and the sectional doors use the torsion
springs.
Oh, duh! I'd forgotten that the one-pieces were the only kind to use
extension springs. They had no tracks, which are required for
sectionals and torsions. His conversion will be highly unlikely.

It's time for a new door if you want torsion springs, Bob.


My garage door is a four-section type with extension springs. So are most of
those in my neighborhood -- except the ones that have converted to power
doors. These are old houses with detached garages.


Yeah, around here there are NO one-piece doors, all 4 or 5 sections.
Split between tension and torsion springs.


So they're on tracks? I guess they'd have to attach the sprung legs
directly to the door, then pivot them around the radius curve of the
track, eh? I've only seen one-piece extension-sprung doors here on
the Left Coast. Ditto back in Arkansas, as a chillun.

--
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our
inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter
the state of facts and evidence. -- John Adams, December 1770
'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials'

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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

On May 17, 7:22*pm, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
Don Foreman wrote:
Why do you want to convert from extension springs to torsion springs?


Well, I'm just considering it. *It would depend upon the cost, a lot.
Main motivation is the difficulty I have keeping the two springs in
equal tension. *When they're not, the door has a tendency to lower in
lurches, as one side then the other jams then releases.

I've also been considering a different scheme for using tension springs
- I'll be posting that.

Bob


Maybe you could find a way to measure and compare the tension of each
cable with something like this: http://www.landfallnavigation.com/hlpt2.html
(or a DIY version). Might help to isolate the cause of the problem.


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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

Denis G. wrote:
Maybe you could find a way to measure and compare the tension of each
cable with something like this: http://www.landfallnavigation.com/hlpt2.html
(or a DIY version). Might help to isolate the cause of the problem.


Yeah - a DIM version would be easy since it wouldn't have to be
calibrated - I only need to know when the tensions are equal.

Thanks,
Bob
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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

On Tue, 18 May 2010 01:05:38 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote the following:

Denis G. wrote:
Maybe you could find a way to measure and compare the tension of each
cable with something like this: http://www.landfallnavigation.com/hlpt2.html
(or a DIY version). Might help to isolate the cause of the problem.


Yeah - a DIM version would be easy since it wouldn't have to be
calibrated - I only need to know when the tensions are equal.


Strum them, Bob. It'll get you ballpark close, like tuning a bass
guitar string. (no fish jokes, please)

--
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our
inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter
the state of facts and evidence. -- John Adams, December 1770
'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials'

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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

On May 18, 8:13*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 01:05:38 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote the following:

Denis G. wrote:
Maybe you could find a way to measure and compare the tension of each
cable with something like this:http://www.landfallnavigation.com/hlpt2..html
(or a DIY version). *Might help to isolate the cause of the problem.


Yeah - a DIM version would be easy since it wouldn't have to be
calibrated - I only need to know when the tensions are equal.


Strum them, Bob. *It'll get you ballpark close, like tuning a bass
guitar string. *(no fish jokes, please)

--
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our
inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter
the state of facts and evidence. -- John Adams, *December 1770
'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials'


I heard that this sort of thing causes whale beachings. (cetacean joke)
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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

On Tue, 18 May 2010 07:15:58 -0700 (PDT), "Denis G."
wrote:

On May 18, 8:13*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 01:05:38 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote the following:

Denis G. wrote:
Maybe you could find a way to measure and compare the tension of each
cable with something like this:http://www.landfallnavigation.com/hlpt2.html
(or a DIY version). *Might help to isolate the cause of the problem.


Yeah - a DIM version would be easy since it wouldn't have to be
calibrated - I only need to know when the tensions are equal.


Strum them, Bob. *It'll get you ballpark close, like tuning a bass
guitar string. *(no fish jokes, please)

--
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our
inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter
the state of facts and evidence. -- John Adams, *December 1770
'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials'


I heard that this sort of thing causes whale beachings. (cetacean joke)


What are they beaching about?
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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

On May 17, 5:50*am, Dave__67 wrote:
On May 16, 10:41*pm, wrote:





On May 16, 7:27*pm, Bob Engelhardt wrote:


My overhead garage doors use extension springs. *I thought I might
convert to torsion springs and looked on the web for a kit. *All I could
find was the springs themselves, and various other parts. *No complete
installation package. *And I did a LOT of searching - probably 2 hours'
worth.


This is strange - my conclusion is that the installation package comes
with the door (tracks, hinges, rollers, springs, etc) and that's it.
What about if you wanted to build your own door? *You'd think that you
could get a kit SOMEWHERE.


It looks like I would have to buy all the parts separately - hoping that
* I got ones that went with each other. *And, of course, paying a
premium over what a package/kit would cost.


Frustrated and baffled,
Bob


You could go back in time and use what my granddaddy did, wire cable,
pulleys and boxes of sand and busted concrete. Lasted longer than he
did, which is more than you can say for a lot of the spring
counterbalances these days. *Pure profit centers for the door
installers, they KNOW they'll be back. *Not sure torsion springs would
be an improvement anyway. *When they go SPROING, there's a whole lot
more energy involved.


Stan


Did he work out a way to lessen the force as the door went up?

Dave- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Solid wood door, didn't really have to. No hinges in the center.
That door was HEAVY. Almost bullet-proof. The door itself stuck out a
foot or so in the up position, the cables were fastened on each side
just clearing the track on the interior and pretty much moved in a
straight line. You could move it up or down with one hand, my 80-year
old grandmother didn't have any problems with it. With the weight
boxes, things were readily adjustable, too, no tools!

Stan


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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

On May 18, 11:10*am, Don Foreman
wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 07:15:58 -0700 (PDT), "Denis G."





wrote:
On May 18, 8:13*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 01:05:38 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote the following:


Denis G. wrote:
Maybe you could find a way to measure and compare the tension of each
cable with something like this:http://www.landfallnavigation.com/hlpt2.html
(or a DIY version). *Might help to isolate the cause of the problem.


Yeah - a DIM version would be easy since it wouldn't have to be
calibrated - I only need to know when the tensions are equal.


Strum them, Bob. *It'll get you ballpark close, like tuning a bass
guitar string. *(no fish jokes, please)


--
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our
inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter
the state of facts and evidence. -- John Adams, *December 1770
'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials'


I heard that this sort of thing causes whale beachings. (cetacean joke)


What are they beaching about? *- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Groan……
OK, I’ll bite.
There’s an obvious explanation. I don’t think that they dislike the
sound. It just drives them into frenzy. It’s similar to behavior
often seen at rock concerts when the fans rush the stage: usually a
result of the lead guitarist whaling away during a song. Inter-
related phenomena – you have to calm them down and drag them back.
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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

On May 18, 1:09*pm, wrote:
On May 17, 5:50*am, Dave__67 wrote:



On May 16, 10:41*pm, wrote:


On May 16, 7:27*pm, Bob Engelhardt wrote:


My overhead garage doors use extension springs. *I thought I might
convert to torsion springs and looked on the web for a kit. *All I could
find was the springs themselves, and various other parts. *No complete
installation package. *And I did a LOT of searching - probably 2 hours'
worth.


This is strange - my conclusion is that the installation package comes
with the door (tracks, hinges, rollers, springs, etc) and that's it..
What about if you wanted to build your own door? *You'd think that you
could get a kit SOMEWHERE.


It looks like I would have to buy all the parts separately - hoping that
* I got ones that went with each other. *And, of course, paying a
premium over what a package/kit would cost.


Frustrated and baffled,
Bob


You could go back in time and use what my granddaddy did, wire cable,
pulleys and boxes of sand and busted concrete. Lasted longer than he
did, which is more than you can say for a lot of the spring
counterbalances these days. *Pure profit centers for the door
installers, they KNOW they'll be back. *Not sure torsion springs would
be an improvement anyway. *When they go SPROING, there's a whole lot
more energy involved.


Stan


Did he work out a way to lessen the force as the door went up?


Dave- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Solid wood door, didn't really have to. *No hinges in the center.
That door was HEAVY. *Almost bullet-proof. The door itself stuck out a
foot or so in the up position, the cables were fastened on each side
just clearing the track on the interior and pretty much moved in a
straight line. *You could move it up or down with one hand, my 80-year
old grandmother didn't have any problems with it. *With the weight
boxes, things were readily adjustable, too, no tools!

Stan


Ah, a solid one. Scary *******s when things aren't quite right.

Dave
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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

On Tue, 18 May 2010 07:15:58 -0700 (PDT), "Denis G."
wrote the following:

On May 18, 8:13*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 01:05:38 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote the following:

Denis G. wrote:
Maybe you could find a way to measure and compare the tension of each
cable with something like this:http://www.landfallnavigation.com/hlpt2.html
(or a DIY version). *Might help to isolate the cause of the problem.


Yeah - a DIM version would be easy since it wouldn't have to be
calibrated - I only need to know when the tensions are equal.


Strum them, Bob. *It'll get you ballpark close, like tuning a bass
guitar string. *(no fish jokes, please)


I heard that this sort of thing causes whale beachings. (cetacean joke)


That only happens when they're precisely 6.8Hz out of tune from each
other, Denis. Otherwise, it increases their endolphins, for fully
sated cetaceans.

--
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our
inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter
the state of facts and evidence. -- John Adams, December 1770
'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials'

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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

On Tue, 18 May 2010 11:10:13 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote the following:

On Tue, 18 May 2010 07:15:58 -0700 (PDT), "Denis G."
wrote:

On May 18, 8:13*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 01:05:38 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote the following:

Denis G. wrote:
Maybe you could find a way to measure and compare the tension of each
cable with something like this:http://www.landfallnavigation.com/hlpt2.html
(or a DIY version). *Might help to isolate the cause of the problem.

Yeah - a DIM version would be easy since it wouldn't have to be
calibrated - I only need to know when the tensions are equal.

Strum them, Bob. *It'll get you ballpark close, like tuning a bass
guitar string. *(no fish jokes, please)

--
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our
inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter
the state of facts and evidence. -- John Adams, *December 1770
'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials'


I heard that this sort of thing causes whale beachings. (cetacean joke)


What are they beaching about?


Beach, beach, beach. Is that all you men ever think about?

--
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our
inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter
the state of facts and evidence. -- John Adams, December 1770
'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials'

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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

On May 18, 7:26*pm, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 07:15:58 -0700 (PDT), "Denis G."
wrote the following:

On May 18, 8:13*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 01:05:38 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote the following:


Denis G. wrote:
Maybe you could find a way to measure and compare the tension of each
cable with something like this:http://www.landfallnavigation.com/hlpt2.html
(or a DIY version). *Might help to isolate the cause of the problem.


Yeah - a DIM version would be easy since it wouldn't have to be
calibrated - I only need to know when the tensions are equal.


Strum them, Bob. *It'll get you ballpark close, like tuning a bass
guitar string. *(no fish jokes, please)

I heard that this sort of thing causes whale beachings. (cetacean joke)


That only happens when they're precisely 6.8Hz out of tune from each
other, Denis. Otherwise, it increases their endolphins, for fully
sated cetaceans.

--
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our
inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter
the state of facts and evidence. -- John Adams, *December 1770
'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials'


Endolphins!?! I hope that you're not making hormones!


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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

On Tue, 18 May 2010 19:39:05 -0700 (PDT), "Denis G."
wrote the following:

On May 18, 7:26*pm, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 07:15:58 -0700 (PDT), "Denis G."
wrote the following:

On May 18, 8:13*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 01:05:38 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote the following:


Denis G. wrote:
Maybe you could find a way to measure and compare the tension of each
cable with something like this:http://www.landfallnavigation.com/hlpt2.html
(or a DIY version). *Might help to isolate the cause of the problem.


Yeah - a DIM version would be easy since it wouldn't have to be
calibrated - I only need to know when the tensions are equal.


Strum them, Bob. *It'll get you ballpark close, like tuning a bass
guitar string. *(no fish jokes, please)
I heard that this sort of thing causes whale beachings. (cetacean joke)


That only happens when they're precisely 6.8Hz out of tune from each
other, Denis. Otherwise, it increases their endolphins, for fully
sated cetaceans.


Endolphins!?! I hope that you're not making hormones!


I'm making hormone every chance I can. That's in between screams for
more, which seals d eel.

--
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our
inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter
the state of facts and evidence. -- John Adams, December 1770
'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials'

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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

On May 18, 11:00*pm, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 19:39:05 -0700 (PDT), "Denis G."
wrote the following:





On May 18, 7:26*pm, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 07:15:58 -0700 (PDT), "Denis G."
wrote the following:


On May 18, 8:13*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 01:05:38 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote the following:


Denis G. wrote:
Maybe you could find a way to measure and compare the tension of each
cable with something like this:http://www.landfallnavigation.com/hlpt2.html
(or a DIY version). *Might help to isolate the cause of the problem.


Yeah - a DIM version would be easy since it wouldn't have to be
calibrated - I only need to know when the tensions are equal.


Strum them, Bob. *It'll get you ballpark close, like tuning a bass
guitar string. *(no fish jokes, please)
I heard that this sort of thing causes whale beachings. (cetacean joke)


That only happens when they're precisely 6.8Hz out of tune from each
other, Denis. Otherwise, it increases their endolphins, for fully
sated cetaceans.

Endolphins!?! *I hope that you're not making hormones!


I'm making hormone every chance I can. That's in between screams for
more, which seals d eel.

--
Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our
inclinations, or the dictates of our passion, they cannot alter
the state of facts and evidence. -- John Adams, *December 1770
'Argument in Defense of the Soldiers in the Boston Massacre Trials'- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Aha! Well, that fits with my theories of whale beachings, strumming
tension cables, rock musicians and aquatic frenzy. Someone in your
neighborhood is probably tuning his garage door cables or playing his
stereo sending subliminal signals and wreaking havoc. I think that
there are better ways of adjusting garage doors without disrupting the
neighborhood or nearby aquatic life – using the proper measuring
devices and using judicious engineering practices.
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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

On Tue, 18 May 2010 21:34:10 -0700 (PDT), "Denis G."
wrote the following:

On May 18, 11:00*pm, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 19:39:05 -0700 (PDT), "Denis G."
wrote the following:





On May 18, 7:26*pm, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 07:15:58 -0700 (PDT), "Denis G."
wrote the following:


On May 18, 8:13*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 01:05:38 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote the following:


Denis G. wrote:
Maybe you could find a way to measure and compare the tension of each
cable with something like this:http://www.landfallnavigation.com/hlpt2.html
(or a DIY version). *Might help to isolate the cause of the problem.


Yeah - a DIM version would be easy since it wouldn't have to be
calibrated - I only need to know when the tensions are equal.


Strum them, Bob. *It'll get you ballpark close, like tuning a bass
guitar string. *(no fish jokes, please)
I heard that this sort of thing causes whale beachings. (cetacean joke)


That only happens when they're precisely 6.8Hz out of tune from each
other, Denis. Otherwise, it increases their endolphins, for fully
sated cetaceans.
Endolphins!?! *I hope that you're not making hormones!


I'm making hormone every chance I can. That's in between screams for
more, which seals d eel.


Aha! Well, that fits with my theories of whale beachings, strumming
tension cables, rock musicians and aquatic frenzy. Someone in your
neighborhood is probably tuning his garage door cables or playing his
stereo sending subliminal signals and wreaking havoc. I think that
there are better ways of adjusting garage doors without disrupting the
neighborhood or nearby aquatic life – using the proper measuring
devices and using judicious engineering practices.


Oh, puhleeeze, Mr. D. A properly tuned garage door string, erm, cable
is well above VLF freqs and is no more disruptive than a poorly played
bass gitfiddle. Besides, GP is over 60 miles from the coast. So THERE!


--
The great thing about getting older is that
you don't lose all the other ages you've been.
-- Madeleine L'Engle
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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

On May 19, 8:05*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 21:34:10 -0700 (PDT), "Denis G."
wrote the following:





On May 18, 11:00*pm, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 19:39:05 -0700 (PDT), "Denis G."
wrote the following:


On May 18, 7:26*pm, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 07:15:58 -0700 (PDT), "Denis G."
wrote the following:


On May 18, 8:13*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 01:05:38 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote the following:


Denis G. wrote:
Maybe you could find a way to measure and compare the tension of each
cable with something like this:http://www.landfallnavigation.com/hlpt2.html
(or a DIY version). *Might help to isolate the cause of the problem.


Yeah - a DIM version would be easy since it wouldn't have to be
calibrated - I only need to know when the tensions are equal.


Strum them, Bob. *It'll get you ballpark close, like tuning a bass
guitar string. *(no fish jokes, please)
I heard that this sort of thing causes whale beachings. (cetacean joke)


That only happens when they're precisely 6.8Hz out of tune from each
other, Denis. Otherwise, it increases their endolphins, for fully
sated cetaceans.
Endolphins!?! *I hope that you're not making hormones!


I'm making hormone every chance I can. That's in between screams for
more, which seals d eel.


Aha! Well, that fits with my theories of whale beachings, strumming
tension cables, rock musicians and aquatic frenzy. *Someone in your
neighborhood is probably tuning his garage door cables or playing his
stereo sending subliminal signals and wreaking havoc. *I think that
there are better ways of adjusting garage doors without disrupting the
neighborhood or nearby aquatic life – using the proper measuring
devices and using judicious engineering practices.


Oh, puhleeeze, Mr. D. *A properly tuned garage door string, erm, cable
is well above VLF freqs and is no more disruptive than a poorly played
bass gitfiddle. Besides, GP is over 60 miles from the coast. So THERE!


--
The great thing about getting older is that
you don't lose all the other ages you've been.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *-- Madeleine L'Engle- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


OK, but don’t blame me if you have more natural disasters on the West
coast. While you are making your hormones, you could be causing
sympathetic vibrations in the earth’s crust and causing the earth to
move. The thought of setting off Mt. St. Helens is equally scary.
These sounds can carry for hundreds of miles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasound
“Whales, elephants, hippopotamuses, rhinoceros, giraffes, okapi, and
alligators are known to use infrasound to communicate over distances—
up to hundreds of miles in the case of whales. It has also been
suggested that migrating birds use naturally generated infrasound,
from sources such as turbulent airflow over mountain ranges, as a
navigational aid.[10] Elephants, in particular, produce infrasound
waves that travel through solid ground and are sensed by other herds
using their feet, although they may be separated by hundreds of
kilometres.”
If I lived on the West coast, I'd tread lightly.
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Default OT - frustrated and baffled over garage door springs

On Wed, 19 May 2010 07:36:00 -0700 (PDT), "Denis G."
wrote the following:

On May 19, 8:05*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 21:34:10 -0700 (PDT), "Denis G."
wrote the following:





On May 18, 11:00*pm, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 19:39:05 -0700 (PDT), "Denis G."
wrote the following:


On May 18, 7:26*pm, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 07:15:58 -0700 (PDT), "Denis G."
wrote the following:


On May 18, 8:13*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 18 May 2010 01:05:38 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote the following:


Denis G. wrote:
Maybe you could find a way to measure and compare the tension of each
cable with something like this:http://www.landfallnavigation.com/hlpt2.html
(or a DIY version). *Might help to isolate the cause of the problem.


Yeah - a DIM version would be easy since it wouldn't have to be
calibrated - I only need to know when the tensions are equal.


Strum them, Bob. *It'll get you ballpark close, like tuning a bass
guitar string. *(no fish jokes, please)
I heard that this sort of thing causes whale beachings. (cetacean joke)


That only happens when they're precisely 6.8Hz out of tune from each
other, Denis. Otherwise, it increases their endolphins, for fully
sated cetaceans.
Endolphins!?! *I hope that you're not making hormones!


I'm making hormone every chance I can. That's in between screams for
more, which seals d eel.


Aha! Well, that fits with my theories of whale beachings, strumming
tension cables, rock musicians and aquatic frenzy. *Someone in your
neighborhood is probably tuning his garage door cables or playing his
stereo sending subliminal signals and wreaking havoc. *I think that
there are better ways of adjusting garage doors without disrupting the
neighborhood or nearby aquatic life – using the proper measuring
devices and using judicious engineering practices.


Oh, puhleeeze, Mr. D. *A properly tuned garage door string, erm, cable
is well above VLF freqs and is no more disruptive than a poorly played
bass gitfiddle. Besides, GP is over 60 miles from the coast. So THERE!


--
The great thing about getting older is that
you don't lose all the other ages you've been.
* * * * * * * * * * * * *-- Madeleine L'Engle- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


OK, but don’t blame me if you have more natural disasters on the West
coast. While you are making your hormones, you could be causing


Nah, I was making whores moan. Pick up the context, will ya?


sympathetic vibrations in the earth’s crust and causing the earth to
move. The thought of setting off Mt. St. Helens is equally scary.
These sounds can carry for hundreds of miles: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infrasound
“Whales, elephants, hippopotamuses, rhinoceros, giraffes, okapi, and
alligators are known to use infrasound to communicate over distances—
up to hundreds of miles in the case of whales.


Oh, please. Whales travel in pods, not cases. And not in transparent
aluminum tanks yet, either. Scotty told me so.


It has also been
suggested that migrating birds use naturally generated infrasound,
from sources such as turbulent airflow over mountain ranges, as a
navigational aid.[10] Elephants, in particular, produce infrasound
waves that travel through solid ground and are sensed by other herds
using their feet, although they may be separated by hundreds of
kilometres.”
If I lived on the West coast, I'd tread lightly.


I will. Elephants are dangerous to work around. http://fwd4.me/P5W
"And what do you do for a living, sir?"
"Um, er, ah, zookeeper. Yeah, that's it."

--
The great thing about getting older is that
you don't lose all the other ages you've been.
-- Madeleine L'Engle
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