I have aquired a used Miller 225 bobcat generator/welder. It has a 16
horse Onan engine. I think it run but have not had time to start it
yet.

Iit has a 8,000 watt generator. Is this decent sized? I was hoping to
use it to power the house or at least part of it in power outages.
(And of course to weld with it). I read on it that it could also do
tig and mig but cant see exactly how. I guess you woudl have to buy
more equipment.

Anyway, I have a 50 amp welder plug in my attached garage and also the
metal detached garage I have been working on. Can I make a plug and
plug one end to the generator and one end to the plug and "backfeed"
the panel in the case of a power outage? (Of course turning off the
main circuit breaker) My welding plug goes to a sub panel that feeds
fromt he main panel.

My metal building is about 70 feet away or maybe a little less. Is
this too far to keep the generator and feed the house throrugh that
welder plug?

Do these things weld well?

On May 10, 12:00*pm, stryped wrote:
I have aquired a used Miller 225 bobcat generator/welder....
Iit has a 8,000 watt generator. Is this decent sized? I was hoping to
use it to power the house or at least part of it in power outages.

Yes, that's QUITE adequate for lots of home uses; it'd even
run my stove or hot water heater. Or a small shop.

Anyway, I have a 50 amp welder plug in my attached garage and also the
metal detached garage I have been working on. Can I make a plug and
plug one end to the generator and one end to the plug and "backfeed"
the panel in the case of a power outage?

That kind of wiring is called a 'suicide plug'; the prongs are bare,
accessible, and live. Need I add that it isn't recommended?

The easy thing to do, is wire several sockets of your house to an
access
point that you can plug the generator into. Any appliance you need,
just plug into the 'generator-only' sockets when the power is out.
Easier, run some extension cords from a suitable set of breakers
(you CANNOT power 15A circuits from the generator directly,
that '50A' capability means there has to be a breaker panel).
To use your existing house wiring, you MUST have an approved
lockout device (and for safety, get an electrician, and an inspection
from your local municipality, and go through the whole
permit process). If the lockout switch is in place, there is less
chance that the district attorney will prosecute you in case of
a lineman getting a shock.

On Mon, 10 May 2010 12:00:25 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

I have aquired a used Miller 225 bobcat generator/welder. It has a 16
horse Onan engine. I think it run but have not had time to start it
yet.

Iit has a 8,000 watt generator. Is this decent sized? I was hoping to
use it to power the house or at least part of it in power outages.
(And of course to weld with it). I read on it that it could also do
tig and mig but cant see exactly how. I guess you woudl have to buy
more equipment.

Anyway, I have a 50 amp welder plug in my attached garage and also the
metal detached garage I have been working on. Can I make a plug and
plug one end to the generator and one end to the plug and "backfeed"
the panel in the case of a power outage? (Of course turning off the
main circuit breaker) My welding plug goes to a sub panel that feeds
fromt he main panel.

My metal building is about 70 feet away or maybe a little less. Is
this too far to keep the generator and feed the house throrugh that
welder plug?

Do these things weld well?


Yes, until you forget and kill a lineman
Yes they weld well

Personally..my recommendation is to install a Transfer Switch according
to code, and hook your generator to that when the power fails.

Failure to use a proper transfer switch, and you screw up and harm or
kill a lineman...and you will be in jail,then court, then prison for a
rather significant amount of time.

Gunner

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On May 10, 4:29*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
...

Failure to use a proper transfer switch, and you screw up and harm or
kill a lineman...and you will be in jail,then court, then prison for a
rather significant amount of time.

Gunner

Around here they ground the power lines before working on them. That
would short out your generator.

jsw

On Mon, 10 May 2010 14:12:30 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On May 10, 4:29*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
...

Failure to use a proper transfer switch, and you screw up and harm or
kill a lineman...and you will be in jail,then court, then prison for a
rather significant amount of time.

Gunner

Around here they ground the power lines before working on them. That
would short out your generator.

jsw

Too bad no one taught Ronnie Adams that....

http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/a...php/t-711.html

Rotahand
07-13-2005, 07:39 PM
This is no prank. The lineman killed yesterday was working for Pike
Electric and picked up a line that was connected to someones house that
hooked up a generator and did not disconnect from the distribution
system. The linemans name was Ronnie Adams, age unknown. He had two
children and a wife. As far as I know he was from Louisiana. They are
trying to set up a fund for his family, but nothing I have heard of yet.
I will let yall know more as I hear of it. I wish they would really
teach folks the proper connection of generators, this was a really
tragic and preventable accident. Stay Safe and think about it before you
do it.

And an "almost"....

m_kohner
07-14-2005, 06:19 PM
another safety tip notify customers on the affected tap you are on that
the power company is there restoring power, i was working toronado
damage a while back a customer had a generator in a garage back feeding
through a 220 volt dryer recptace exhauste going through the dryer vent
we were 1 home down repairing the broken primary made all connections
had the cut out open and when we closed in....you guessed it....... a
nice quiet honda generator in a garage. no one injured, all the customer
had to do is kill the main disconnect.....take care be safe......P.S. I
drug up from pike today for some of my own reasons.....one less pike
rat...lol....mike

http://www.line-man.com/forums/index...ineman-killed/

http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/a...hp/t-5134.html
Polk County, Fl
Wednesday, September 2, 2009 10:12 AM EDT
http://www.polkcountydemocrat.com/ar...3632518688.txt
A Bartow electric department employee escaped a brush with death Monday
night when a downed line he was repairing became energized by a
homeowner’s generator.

Eddie Watson, an apprentice lineman, was grasping a line while wearing
leather gloves as he worked to repair a line that was brought down by a
falling tree in Monday night’s fierce thunderstorm.

When a homeowner whose house was served by the line started up a
generator, it sent a surge of power through the line, Interim Electric
Dir. Eschol Radford said.

The electricity went through a transformer, stepping up the voltage from
110 volts generated by the generator to 7,200 volts, the transmission
voltage. Usually, the transformer does just the opposite, stepping down
voltage from 7,200 to 110 volts for service lines to homes.

“He was lucky,” Radford said of Watson.

“Fortunately, he had a young guy, Scott Harrison, a lineman helper,
working with him. Scott knocked him off the line and probably saved his
life.”

Watson was rushed by ambulance to Lakeland Regional Medical Center, then
transferred to the Tampa General Hospital burn center “to keep an eye on
him overnight.

“Fortunately, he only had a couple of burns on his hands; he was really
lucky,” Radford said.

Watson was sent home on Tuesday, “and is doing really well.”


--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On Mon, 10 May 2010 14:45:24 -0700, the renowned Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2010 14:12:30 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On May 10, 4:29*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
...

Failure to use a proper transfer switch, and you screw up and harm or
kill a lineman...and you will be in jail,then court, then prison for a
rather significant amount of time.

Gunner

Around here they ground the power lines before working on them. That
would short out your generator.

jsw

Too bad no one taught Ronnie Adams that....

http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/a...php/t-711.html

Rotahand
07-13-2005, 07:39 PM
This is no prank. The lineman killed yesterday was working for Pike
Electric and picked up a line that was connected to someones house that
hooked up a generator and did not disconnect from the distribution
system. The linemans name was Ronnie Adams, age unknown. He had two
children and a wife. As far as I know he was from Louisiana. They are
trying to set up a fund for his family, but nothing I have heard of yet.
I will let yall know more as I hear of it. I wish they would really
teach folks the proper connection of generators, this was a really
tragic and preventable accident. Stay Safe and think about it before you
do it.

Interesting that the power company got fined as a result of that
death:-

http://www.oshrc.gov/decisions/html_2007/06-0166.htm




Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Mon, 10 May 2010 17:55:58 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2010 14:45:24 -0700, the renowned Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2010 14:12:30 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On May 10, 4:29*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
...

Failure to use a proper transfer switch, and you screw up and harm or
kill a lineman...and you will be in jail,then court, then prison for a
rather significant amount of time.

Gunner

Around here they ground the power lines before working on them. That
would short out your generator.

jsw

Too bad no one taught Ronnie Adams that....

http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/a...php/t-711.html

Rotahand
07-13-2005, 07:39 PM
This is no prank. The lineman killed yesterday was working for Pike
Electric and picked up a line that was connected to someones house that
hooked up a generator and did not disconnect from the distribution
system. The linemans name was Ronnie Adams, age unknown. He had two
children and a wife. As far as I know he was from Louisiana. They are
trying to set up a fund for his family, but nothing I have heard of yet.
I will let yall know more as I hear of it. I wish they would really
teach folks the proper connection of generators, this was a really
tragic and preventable accident. Stay Safe and think about it before you
do it.

Interesting that the power company got fined as a result of that
death:-

http://www.oshrc.gov/decisions/html_2007/06-0166.htm


Ayup. Ronnie opened and grounded everything properly...except for one
transformer at the end of a dead end street. And that one killed him.

Gunner




Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

In article ,
Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2010 14:45:24 -0700, the renowned Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2010 14:12:30 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On May 10, 4:29*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
...

Failure to use a proper transfer switch, and you screw up and harm or
kill a lineman...and you will be in jail,then court, then prison for a
rather significant amount of time.

Gunner

Around here they ground the power lines before working on them. That
would short out your generator.

jsw

Too bad no one taught Ronnie Adams that....

http://www.powerlineman.com/lforum/a...php/t-711.html

Rotahand
07-13-2005, 07:39 PM
This is no prank. The lineman killed yesterday was working for Pike
Electric and picked up a line that was connected to someones house that
hooked up a generator and did not disconnect from the distribution
system. The linemans name was Ronnie Adams, age unknown. He had two
children and a wife. As far as I know he was from Louisiana. They are
trying to set up a fund for his family, but nothing I have heard of yet.
I will let yall know more as I hear of it. I wish they would really
teach folks the proper connection of generators, this was a really
tragic and preventable accident. Stay Safe and think about it before you
do it.

Interesting that the power company got fined as a result of that
death:-

http://www.oshrc.gov/decisions/html_2007/06-0166.htm

The final penalty was $12,000, which seems a bit light. I assume that the next
of kin sued.

Joe Gwinn

Jim Wilkins wrote:
On May 10, 4:29 pm, Gunner wrote:
...

Failure to use a proper transfer switch, and you screw up and harm or
kill a lineman...and you will be in jail,then court, then prison for a
rather significant amount of time.

Gunner

Around here they ground the power lines before working on them. That
would short out your generator.

jsw




They usually just cut off your service drop and make sure you are the
last one in the state to get hooked back up, that is if you are a nice
guy. If not you will be hauled into court and taken apart.

John

On May 10, 7:49*pm, John wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
On May 10, 4:29 pm, Gunner *wrote:
...

Failure to use a proper transfer switch, and you screw up and harm or
kill a lineman...and you will be in jail,then court, then prison for a
rather significant amount of time.

Gunner

Around here they ground the power lines before working on them. That
would short out your generator.

jsw

They usually just cut off your service drop and make sure you are the
last one in the state to get hooked back up, that is if you are a nice
guy. *If not you will be hauled into court and taken apart.

John

What about an interlock kit somethign like this:
http://www.nooutage.com/interlock_kits.htm#What does a typical
installation look like?

I would have to move the furnace and crawlspace circuits from my main
panel to my sub panel. Then I could put a 50 amp breaker to my welding
plug. This contraption the best I can tell makes it physically
impossible to turn the 50 amp breaker on without the main breaker
being off.

It may just be less hassel to run extension cords.

What about an interlock kit somethign like this:
http://www.nooutage.com/interlock_kits.htm#What does a typical
installation look like?


That looks like a good route to go.

Don't scrimp with the extension cord route. When you're in the middle of a
long power outage you don't want to make life worse not being able to turn
stuff on.

P.S. My dad was a utility line foreman for thirty years. They will "fix ya"
so you won't get power for weeks if they see the suicide plug route. The
goal is to do it well enough that the whole neighborhood knows. You'll have
a little note in your meter loop panel that says "high sider" so even the
local private electricians won't touch your problem.

Karl

On May 11, 6:22*am, stryped wrote:
On May 10, 7:49*pm, John wrote:





Jim Wilkins wrote:
On May 10, 4:29 pm, Gunner *wrote:
...

Failure to use a proper transfer switch, and you screw up and harm or
kill a lineman...and you will be in jail,then court, then prison for a
rather significant amount of time.

Gunner

Around here they ground the power lines before working on them. That
would short out your generator.

jsw

They usually just cut off your service drop and make sure you are the
last one in the state to get hooked back up, that is if you are a nice
guy. *If not you will be hauled into court and taken apart.

John

What about an interlock kit somethign like this:http://www.nooutage.com/interlock_kits.htm#Whatdoes a typical
installation look like?

I would have to move the furnace and crawlspace circuits from my main
panel to my sub panel. Then I could put a 50 amp breaker to my welding
plug. This contraption the best I can tell makes it physically
impossible to turn the 50 amp breaker on without the main breaker
being off.

It may just be less hassel to run extension cords.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Can't see the link. The b-in-l's house has one set up so there's a
gray box over the top of the receptacle on the house, open end points
down. It's rigged so no part of the plug is exposed. Has the
transfer switch built in. So even if it's wet, snowing and dark, the
connection can be made and it'll stay dry. Makes for a neat
installation, mounting point outside being just opposite the main
breaker panel inside. The only thing he doesn't have is a generator
hut for long runs. His gen-set is large enough to have wheels, so he
can hitch it up to a 4-wheeler and drag it over to the house from the
tool shed. He had a pro set the connection point up for him,
something you might consider from an insurance standpoint. If it's
not up to code and they find, after a fire, that you've cobbled
something together, you may not collect.

Stan

On May 11, 8:13*am, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:
What about an interlock kit somethign like this:
http://www.nooutage.com/interlock_kits.htm#Whatdoes a typical
installation look like?

That looks like a good route to go.

Don't scrimp with the extension cord route. When you're in the middle of a
long power outage you don't want to make life worse not being able to turn
stuff on.

P.S. My dad was a utility line foreman for thirty years. They will "fix ya"
so you won't get power for weeks if they see the suicide plug route. The
goal is to do it well enough that the whole neighborhood knows. You'll have
a little note in your meter loop panel that says "high sider" so even the
local private electricians won't touch your problem.

Karl

Why are they called suicide plugs?

"stryped" wrote in message
...
On May 11, 8:13 am, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:
What about an interlock kit somethign like this:
http://www.nooutage.com/interlock_kits.htm#Whatdoes a typical
installation look like?

That looks like a good route to go.

Don't scrimp with the extension cord route. When you're in the middle of a
long power outage you don't want to make life worse not being able to turn
stuff on.

P.S. My dad was a utility line foreman for thirty years. They will "fix
ya"
so you won't get power for weeks if they see the suicide plug route. The
goal is to do it well enough that the whole neighborhood knows. You'll
have
a little note in your meter loop panel that says "high sider" so even the
local private electricians won't touch your problem.

Karl

Why are they called suicide plugs?


the public doesn't realize how dangerous this is. The power from your little
genny will feed backward through your transformer and energize the high
voltage side utility lines for miles. Touch one of these wires and you're
dead.

Karl

On 2010-05-11, Karl Townsend wrote:

"stryped" wrote in message
...
On May 11, 8:13 am, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:
What about an interlock kit somethign like this:
http://www.nooutage.com/interlock_kits.htm#Whatdoes a typical
installation look like?

That looks like a good route to go.

Don't scrimp with the extension cord route. When you're in the middle of a
long power outage you don't want to make life worse not being able to turn
stuff on.

P.S. My dad was a utility line foreman for thirty years. They will "fix
ya"
so you won't get power for weeks if they see the suicide plug route. The
goal is to do it well enough that the whole neighborhood knows. You'll
have
a little note in your meter loop panel that says "high sider" so even the
local private electricians won't touch your problem.

Karl

Why are they called suicide plugs?


the public doesn't realize how dangerous this is. The power from your little
genny will feed backward through your transformer and energize the high
voltage side utility lines for miles. Touch one of these wires and you're
dead.

Karl, if that was to happen, then this "little genny" would be trying
to power the homes that are connected to those lines? How could it
handle that?

i

Ignoramus8844 wrote:
On 2010-05-11, Karl Townsend wrote:
"stryped" wrote in message
...
On May 11, 8:13 am, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:
What about an interlock kit somethign like this:
http://www.nooutage.com/interlock_kits.htm#Whatdoes a typical
installation look like?
That looks like a good route to go.

Don't scrimp with the extension cord route. When you're in the middle of a
long power outage you don't want to make life worse not being able to turn
stuff on.

P.S. My dad was a utility line foreman for thirty years. They will "fix
ya"
so you won't get power for weeks if they see the suicide plug route. The
goal is to do it well enough that the whole neighborhood knows. You'll
have
a little note in your meter loop panel that says "high sider" so even the
local private electricians won't touch your problem.

Karl
Why are they called suicide plugs?


the public doesn't realize how dangerous this is. The power from your little
genny will feed backward through your transformer and energize the high
voltage side utility lines for miles. Touch one of these wires and you're
dead.

Karl, if that was to happen, then this "little genny" would be trying
to power the homes that are connected to those lines? How could it
handle that?

i

Simple. See that big transformer out on the pole. It works both ways.

Steps up the voltage your feeding it to line voltage. That line voltage
doesn't have to be high amperage to kill you.


--
Steve W.
(\___/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On 2010-05-12, Steve W. wrote:
Ignoramus8844 wrote:
On 2010-05-11, Karl Townsend wrote:
"stryped" wrote in message
...
On May 11, 8:13 am, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:
What about an interlock kit somethign like this:
http://www.nooutage.com/interlock_kits.htm#Whatdoes a typical
installation look like?
That looks like a good route to go.

Don't scrimp with the extension cord route. When you're in the middle of a
long power outage you don't want to make life worse not being able to turn
stuff on.

P.S. My dad was a utility line foreman for thirty years. They will "fix
ya"
so you won't get power for weeks if they see the suicide plug route. The
goal is to do it well enough that the whole neighborhood knows. You'll
have
a little note in your meter loop panel that says "high sider" so even the
local private electricians won't touch your problem.

Karl
Why are they called suicide plugs?


the public doesn't realize how dangerous this is. The power from your little
genny will feed backward through your transformer and energize the high
voltage side utility lines for miles. Touch one of these wires and you're
dead.

Karl, if that was to happen, then this "little genny" would be trying
to power the homes that are connected to those lines? How could it
handle that?

i

Simple. See that big transformer out on the pole. It works both ways.

Steps up the voltage your feeding it to line voltage. That line voltage
doesn't have to be high amperage to kill you.

Steve, it is not that simple.

If many homes are connected to the house backfeeding the grid, then
the generator would be running those homes.

i
i

"Ignoramus8844" wrote in message
...
On 2010-05-12, Steve W. wrote:
Ignoramus8844 wrote:
On 2010-05-11, Karl Townsend wrote:
"stryped" wrote in message
...
On May 11, 8:13 am, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:
What about an interlock kit somethign like this:
http://www.nooutage.com/interlock_kits.htm#Whatdoes a typical
installation look like?
That looks like a good route to go.

Don't scrimp with the extension cord route. When you're in the middle
of a
long power outage you don't want to make life worse not being able to
turn
stuff on.

P.S. My dad was a utility line foreman for thirty years. They will
"fix
ya"
so you won't get power for weeks if they see the suicide plug route.
The
goal is to do it well enough that the whole neighborhood knows. You'll
have
a little note in your meter loop panel that says "high sider" so even
the
local private electricians won't touch your problem.

Karl
Why are they called suicide plugs?


the public doesn't realize how dangerous this is. The power from your
little
genny will feed backward through your transformer and energize the high
voltage side utility lines for miles. Touch one of these wires and
you're
dead.

Karl, if that was to happen, then this "little genny" would be trying
to power the homes that are connected to those lines? How could it
handle that?

i

Simple. See that big transformer out on the pole. It works both ways.

Steps up the voltage your feeding it to line voltage. That line voltage
doesn't have to be high amperage to kill you.

Steve, it is not that simple.

If many homes are connected to the house backfeeding the grid, then
the generator would be running those homes.


That would only occur if and only if there wasn't a broken conducter that
has reached the ground.

Under your scenario there would be no need for the generator since
electrical power would already have been restored.

The backfeed hazard occurs before that: when the power line is still down
and people are attempting to reconnect the wires. This is when a backfeeding
power source can be quite deadly for the people who are working on the
lines.

It is this hazard which mandates either a transfer switch which
automatically disconnects the utility service when generator power is
applied. While a "poor boy" method of simply manually shutting off the
utility service before attempting to start the generator will work, it is
not an acceptable alternative.

On Tue, 11 May 2010 22:51:53 -0500, Ignoramus8844
wrote:

On 2010-05-12, Steve W. wrote:
Ignoramus8844 wrote:
On 2010-05-11, Karl Townsend wrote:
"stryped" wrote in message
...
On May 11, 8:13 am, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:
What about an interlock kit somethign like this:
http://www.nooutage.com/interlock_kits.htm#Whatdoes a typical
installation look like?
That looks like a good route to go.

Don't scrimp with the extension cord route. When you're in the middle of a
long power outage you don't want to make life worse not being able to turn
stuff on.

P.S. My dad was a utility line foreman for thirty years. They will "fix
ya"
so you won't get power for weeks if they see the suicide plug route. The
goal is to do it well enough that the whole neighborhood knows. You'll
have
a little note in your meter loop panel that says "high sider" so even the
local private electricians won't touch your problem.

Karl
Why are they called suicide plugs?


the public doesn't realize how dangerous this is. The power from your little
genny will feed backward through your transformer and energize the high
voltage side utility lines for miles. Touch one of these wires and you're
dead.

Karl, if that was to happen, then this "little genny" would be trying
to power the homes that are connected to those lines? How could it
handle that?

i

Simple. See that big transformer out on the pole. It works both ways.

Steps up the voltage your feeding it to line voltage. That line voltage
doesn't have to be high amperage to kill you.

Steve, it is not that simple.

If many homes are connected to the house backfeeding the grid, then
the generator would be running those homes.

i


You are right, however if everyone in the reservation is on vacation
in Florida you might have enough power to put out secondary voltage
from the pole transformer and linemen get all antsy about grabbing a
4,000 volt wire (you usually only get to do it once) and so will be
very stroppy if they discover you with some sort of kludge as a
generator connection.

I've found most high voltage electricians to be very conservative - if
it might be hot, don't touch it.
John B. Slocomb
(johnbslocombatgmaildotcom)

On 2010-05-12, John B Slocomb wrote:
wrote:
If many homes are connected to the house backfeeding the grid, then
the generator would be running those homes.

You are right, however if everyone in the reservation is on vacation
in Florida you might have enough power to put out secondary voltage
from the pole transformer and linemen get all antsy about grabbing a
4,000 volt wire (you usually only get to do it once) and so will be
very stroppy if they discover you with some sort of kludge as a
generator connection.

Exactly. Pretty much everyone after the broken power line, would need
to not be using electricity at all, otherwise backfeeding would simply
stall the generator.

I've found most high voltage electricians to be very conservative - if
it might be hot, don't touch it.

I would say "most surviving HV electricians".

It is like saying "there are no old bold captains".

i

I have aquired a used Miller 225 bobcat generator/welder. It
has a 16
horse Onan engine. I think it run but have not had time to
start it
yet.

CY: Please change the oil. A most neglected service task.
Use good brand of oil. I like Castrol.

Iit has a 8,000 watt generator. Is this decent sized? I was
hoping to
use it to power the house or at least part of it in power
outages.
(And of course to weld with it). I read on it that it could
also do
tig and mig but cant see exactly how. I guess you woudl have
to buy
more equipment.

CY: Most consumer model generators run up to 5,500 watts, so
8k is on the large side.

Anyway, I have a 50 amp welder plug in my attached garage
and also the
metal detached garage I have been working on. Can I make a
plug and
plug one end to the generator and one end to the plug and
"backfeed"
the panel in the case of a power outage? (Of course turning
off the
main circuit breaker) My welding plug goes to a sub panel
that feeds
fromt he main panel.

CY: Should work. Of course, it's a risk that some day you'll
forget the main breaker, and kill a lineman.

My metal building is about 70 feet away or maybe a little
less. Is
this too far to keep the generator and feed the house
throrugh that
welder plug?

CY: Depends how big the connecting wire is, and what type of
connections, how clean the connections are. Should work
fine. 8000 watts / 240 volts = about 36 amps, which should
feed through 10 gage copper, or 8 gage aluminum. 10/cu is
actually rated for 30 amps, but it's fairly close. Please
realize that you'll use gasoline faster with more load,
figure a galon an hour minimum.

Do these things weld well?

On May 11, 9:13*am, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:
What about an interlock kit somethign like this:
http://www.nooutage.com/interlock_kits.htm#Whatdoes a typical
installation look like?

That looks like a good route to go.

Don't scrimp with the extension cord route. When you're in the middle of a
long power outage you don't want to make life worse not being able to turn
stuff on.

P.S. My dad was a utility line foreman for thirty years. They will "fix ya"
so you won't get power for weeks if they see the suicide plug route. The
goal is to do it well enough that the whole neighborhood knows. You'll have
a little note in your meter loop panel that says "high sider" so even the
local private electricians won't touch your problem.

Karl

We had a major outage a coupla months ago (don't get me started about
the ****ing neighbor who refuses to cut down the tree that's been dead
for ten years). A power company engineer came out to survey the
damage. He heard my generator running and asked me if I had turned off
the main breaker. I told him that I was running on extension cords,
and wasn't connected to the house wiring. I have a suicide cord set
up, but I had not yet connected it. He told me to go ahead and hook it
up, but just remember to turn off the main. So I did.

I asked him what the likelihood was that someone would get injured by
not turning off the main. He said it was pretty close to zero, that
they treat ALL wires as if they are hot. But, you can never be too
careful. He also said that if something DID happen, it would be THEIR
fault, not mine, as it would have required their people to ignore
their safety directives. And no, I didn't get his card - I should
have.

In the near future, I will be replacing my service entrance and panel.
I will be installing a manual transfer switch as part of the job. I
have to say, though, that I'm pretty surprised at the price of these
things. Does anyone have any suggestions for a less costly solution?
It seems that this functionality could easily be built into the main
panel, which I'm replacing anyway.

On May 12, 11:29*am, rangerssuck wrote:
...
...He heard my generator running and asked me if I had turned off
the main breaker. I told him that I was running on extension cords,
and wasn't connected to the house wiring. ...

Is there a proper and accepted way to run generator extension cords
into the house without letting carbon monoxide in or heat out?

I bought several NEMA 5-15 panel mount recessed plugs to use for this,
first as show-and-tell samples for the fire and building inspectors.
My current cunning plan is that they would connect only to single
indoor receptacles, not the house wiring, near the refrigerator,
washing machine and air conditioner so I could run those individually
from a generator.

Otherwise I can run everything I need on less than 100W from inverters
during an outage, recharging the VRLA battery packs once a day
outdoors.

jsw

"cord under the front door" worked for me.

The individual recepticles sound good. I'd like to hear more
about the rechargable pack. Is that just for some lights?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...


Is there a proper and accepted way to run generator
extension cords
into the house without letting carbon monoxide in or heat
out?

I bought several NEMA 5-15 panel mount recessed plugs to use
for this,
first as show-and-tell samples for the fire and building
inspectors.
My current cunning plan is that they would connect only to
single
indoor receptacles, not the house wiring, near the
refrigerator,
washing machine and air conditioner so I could run those
individually
from a generator.

Otherwise I can run everything I need on less than 100W from
inverters
during an outage, recharging the VRLA battery packs once a
day
outdoors.

jsw

On May 12, 7:43*pm, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
"cord under the front door" worked for me.

My doors and windows are *tightly* sealed.

Local fire departments have started to go around checking all
generators they hear during an extended outage. I really don't want
them shutting me down when I need the power badly.

The individual recepticles sound good. I'd like to hear more
about the rechargable pack. Is that just for some lights?

Christopher A. Young

Here is one, also I have a few computer UPSs to scatter around so
there are no cords on the floor to trip over.
http://www.centurytool.net/BPIP_99_E..._p/bpip-99.htm

My HDTV and this laptop both use less than 30W and will run over an
hour on a gel cell in decent condition. I have some solar pathway
lights that take easily removeable AA NiCads for general lighting when
the power goes out. As long as I don't turn on a bright light my night
vision is good enough to walk around by candlelight and the solar
lights are brighter than a candle when their diffusers are removed.

A generator will recharge the NiCads, gel cell battery packs and the
Tripplite UPS in an hour or two, out on the back porch protected from
the weather. The other brands of UPS recharge very slowly.

jsw

Some months ago, I saw a mechanical interlock. It was a
piece of metal with a slide tube. You'd bolt it to the front
of your circuit panel. It would allow one breaker on one
side to be turned on, if the other was turned off, to allow
the slider metal piece to slide the other way. Hard to
describe.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"rangerssuck" wrote in message
...

In the near future, I will be replacing my service entrance
and panel.
I will be installing a manual transfer switch as part of the
job. I
have to say, though, that I'm pretty surprised at the price
of these
things. Does anyone have any suggestions for a less costly
solution?
It seems that this functionality could easily be built into
the main
panel, which I'm replacing anyway.

"stryped" wrote in message
...
I have aquired a used Miller 225 bobcat generator/welder. It has a 16
horse Onan engine. I think it run but have not had time to start it
yet.

Iit has a 8,000 watt generator. Is this decent sized? I was hoping to
use it to power the house or at least part of it in power outages.
(And of course to weld with it). I read on it that it could also do
tig and mig but cant see exactly how. I guess you woudl have to buy
more equipment.

Anyway, I have a 50 amp welder plug in my attached garage and also the
metal detached garage I have been working on. Can I make a plug and
plug one end to the generator and one end to the plug and "backfeed"
the panel in the case of a power outage? (Of course turning off the
main circuit breaker) My welding plug goes to a sub panel that feeds
fromt he main panel.

My metal building is about 70 feet away or maybe a little less. Is
this too far to keep the generator and feed the house throrugh that
welder plug?

Do these things weld well?

I had a Lincoln Weldanpower with the 16 Onan, and I liked it. I used it a
lot, and it only use a couple of plugs, oil filters, and air filters. Damn
fine machine. Now, I know you have a Miller, but just saying ...........

Steve