Please list company's that hir illegals here

On Sat, 8 May 2010 09:49:30 -0500, wrote:

Please list company's that hir illegals here

Most.

Some unintentionally..most..simply dont care.

A machine shop that went out of business a few years ago, that I did
service work for, had 3 shifts of 30 employees, plus supervisors and
management.

Of the 90 employees working the machinery..there were a total of 45
Social Security numbers.

Every 6-9 month, the Social Security administration would write a letter
about duplicate numbers. Management would claim.."computer errors" and
the employees would spend $15 to get new social security numbers from
Macarther Park numbers dealers..and those numbers would be
submitted...and then in 9 months...Social Security would write a letter
about duplicate numbers....etc etc etc

Of course, this is in California.....shrug


Gunner

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

ok, the US army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine core, to start with

wrote in message
...
Please list company's that hir illegals here

"Bill Noble" wrote:

ok, the US army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine core, to start with

No. They have their green card. And if willing to serve and having served honorably, I'd
be glad to welcome as a new citizen.


###
The United States military is composed entirely of volunteers. While individuals are paid
for their service, the decision join the military is entirely voluntary. The branches of
the United States military include the Army, Air Force, Navy, Coast Guard and the Marines.
In general each branch has different requirements for enlistment, but there are some
standard requirements for all the branches. Only individuals who are U.S. citizens can
become commissioned officers in the United States military. Those who are considered US
citizens also include citizens of Puerto Rico, the Northern Marianas Islands, the
Federated States of Micronesia, Guam, the U.S. Virgin Islands, American Samoa, and the
Republic of the Marshall Islands. Non-citizens are eligible to enlist in the military but
can not be commissioned. A non-citizen that is eligible to join the military must meet
certain requirements: (1) Have an Alien Registration Receipt Card (stamped I-94 or I-551
Green card/INS Form 1-551), (2) Have a bona fide residence established, and (3) Have
established a record of the U.S. as their home. Some non-citizens from countries with a
reputation of hostility towards the U.S. may also require a waiver. The federal government
cannot petition on behalf of an illegal immigrant so that they can obtain legal status and
be able to enlist in the military. In order for an immigrant to join the United States
military, they must first go through the immigration process of the USCIS (previously
known as the INS) and then and then begin the enlisting process. Another requirement is
that the Green Card and/or visa if the immigrant desiring to join the military must be
valid for the entire period of their enlistment.


http://www.usimmigrationsupport.org/military.html


Wes

wrote in message
...
Please list company's that hir illegals here



O'booverburton

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Bill Noble" wrote:

ok, the US army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine core, to start with

No. They have their green card. And if willing to serve and having
served honorably, I'd
be glad to welcome as a new citizen.



not true - there is a case in the newspapers here about a lady who was
honorably discharged after 6 years, was 3 days from citizenship and the
discovered she had used her aunt's ID to enlist, so they are deporting her
back to (mexico? guatemala?) a country she has no memory of. I think that
is not fair to her, and I think it is not good for our country to just toss
these folks out.

Gunner Asch on Sat, 08 May 2010 13:24:55 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Sat, 8 May 2010 09:49:30 -0500, wrote:

Please list company's that hir illegals here

Most.

Some unintentionally..most..simply dont care.

Some may not know, some may overlook. Company I worked for, had
a big INS raid. Caught about 10% of the work force. Unfortunately,
quite a few good workers went, and the couple real a-holes - were
legit. Although one had overstayed a visa and had to leave anyway.

The question got raised, watching the new management's subsequent
behavior, - could it not have been possible for someone in the new
management team to have made that anonymous tip to the INS, as a means
of cutting the workforce, without having to fire anyone? I don't know
either.
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

"Bill Noble" wrote:



"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Bill Noble" wrote:

ok, the US army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine core, to start with

No. They have their green card. And if willing to serve and having
served honorably, I'd
be glad to welcome as a new citizen.



not true - there is a case in the newspapers here about a lady who was
honorably discharged after 6 years, was 3 days from citizenship and the
discovered she had used her aunt's ID to enlist, so they are deporting her
back to (mexico? guatemala?) a country she has no memory of. I think that
is not fair to her, and I think it is not good for our country to just toss
these folks out.


How is what I wrote not true? You respond with a case of some one commiting fraud by
using another family members green card.


Wes

Wes wrote:
"Bill Noble" wrote:



"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Bill Noble" wrote:

ok, the US army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine core, to start with

No. They have their green card. And if willing to serve and having
served honorably, I'd
be glad to welcome as a new citizen.



not true - there is a case in the newspapers here about a lady who
was honorably discharged after 6 years, was 3 days from citizenship
and the discovered she had used her aunt's ID to enlist, so they are
deporting her back to (mexico? guatemala?) a country she has no
memory of. I think that is not fair to her, and I think it is not
good for our country to just toss these folks out.


How is what I wrote not true? You respond with a case of some one
commiting fraud by using another family members green card.


You said "... I'd be glad to welcome as a new citizen". Bill knows that isn't
true. :-)

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Bill Noble" wrote:



"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Bill Noble" wrote:

ok, the US army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine core, to start with

No. They have their green card. And if willing to serve and having
served honorably, I'd
be glad to welcome as a new citizen.



not true - there is a case in the newspapers here about a lady who was
honorably discharged after 6 years, was 3 days from citizenship and the
discovered she had used her aunt's ID to enlist, so they are deporting her
back to (mexico? guatemala?) a country she has no memory of. I think that
is not fair to her, and I think it is not good for our country to just
toss
these folks out.
How is what I wrote not true? You respond with a case of some one
commiting fraud by
using another family members green card.


the lady in question did in fact serve, and presumably get paid for doing
so, in the US Army. That makes the army one of the groups that employs
(even if unknowingly) illegal aliens. My point in posting was not to wag a
finger at the army, but to make the point that not all illegals are evil,
some are more "american" than native borne. And, that it does not serve our
national interest to deport these people any more than it served our purpose
to put into prison those who lied about their age to enlist
Wes

"Bill Noble" wrote:

not true - there is a case in the newspapers here about a lady who was
honorably discharged after 6 years, was 3 days from citizenship and the
discovered she had used her aunt's ID to enlist, so they are deporting her
back to (mexico? guatemala?) a country she has no memory of. I think that
is not fair to her, and I think it is not good for our country to just
toss
these folks out.
How is what I wrote not true? You respond with a case of some one
commiting fraud by
using another family members green card.


the lady in question did in fact serve, and presumably get paid for doing
so, in the US Army. That makes the army one of the groups that employs
(even if unknowingly) illegal aliens. My point in posting was not to wag a
finger at the army, but to make the point that not all illegals are evil,
some are more "american" than native borne. And, that it does not serve our
national interest to deport these people any more than it served our purpose
to put into prison those who lied about their age to enlist

Let us reset this a bit. You made a blanket claim that there are illegal's in the
services. I responded that by law there isn't supposed to be.

Nice job comparing the underaged that sneak with your example using the aunts ID.

The underaged if still underaged when discovered generally get sent home.

As the the lady in question, do you have links that indicate if she got an immigration
hearing? Was she deported?

Wes

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Bill Noble" wrote:

not true - there is a case in the newspapers here about a lady who was
honorably discharged after 6 years, was 3 days from citizenship and the
discovered she had used her aunt's ID to enlist, so they are deporting
her
back to (mexico? guatemala?) a country she has no memory of. I think
that
is not fair to her, and I think it is not good for our country to just
toss
these folks out.
How is what I wrote not true? You respond with a case of some one
commiting fraud by
using another family members green card.


the lady in question did in fact serve, and presumably get paid for doing
so, in the US Army. That makes the army one of the groups that employs
(even if unknowingly) illegal aliens. My point in posting was not to wag
a
finger at the army, but to make the point that not all illegals are evil,
some are more "american" than native borne. And, that it does not serve
our
national interest to deport these people any more than it served our
purpose
to put into prison those who lied about their age to enlist

Let us reset this a bit. You made a blanket claim that there are
illegal's in the
services. I responded that by law there isn't supposed to be.

Nice job comparing the underaged that sneak with your example using the
aunts ID.

The underaged if still underaged when discovered generally get sent home.

As the the lady in question, do you have links that indicate if she got an
immigration
hearing? Was she deported?

Wes

The last article I saw was in theLA Times, it said she had a hearing in a
day or two and was at risk - here is the article
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr...rmy-20100426/3

and there is this article about the wife of a soldier who is "about to be
deported" (in 2009) because she was brought into the country illegally at
age 6 http://articles.latimes.com/2009/oct...mmig-soldier26,
and here is a more recent article about her
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...migarmy09.html
which seems to be nearly identical - no new information.


so, to answer your question - I don't know how her hearing came out, or IF
it has been held.

I usually ignore these political posts, but I felt this deserved a "sharp"
response - I am absolutely not in favor of illegal immigration into this
country, however, there is also the notion of humanity, compassion, and
consideration for good deeds - as I stated originally, it does our country
no good, nor does it help anything to deport all who came illegally blindly
and without consideration - the soldier was one way for me to make this
point clearly.


here is an article where we decided to do the right thing - at least
temporarily
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,285754,00.html

Let us not be so fast to rush to judgment that we demonize everyone in a
group - what many did is no more wrong (maybe less wrong) than taking food
when you are hungry, and we often will forgive theft under those
circumstances. Fix the problem, but not by breaking the good people who are
part of it.

"Bill Noble" wrote:



"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Bill Noble" wrote:

not true - there is a case in the newspapers here about a lady who was
honorably discharged after 6 years, was 3 days from citizenship and the
discovered she had used her aunt's ID to enlist, so they are deporting
her
back to (mexico? guatemala?) a country she has no memory of. I think
that
is not fair to her, and I think it is not good for our country to just
toss
these folks out.
How is what I wrote not true? You respond with a case of some one
commiting fraud by
using another family members green card.


the lady in question did in fact serve, and presumably get paid for doing
so, in the US Army. That makes the army one of the groups that employs
(even if unknowingly) illegal aliens. My point in posting was not to wag
a
finger at the army, but to make the point that not all illegals are evil,
some are more "american" than native borne. And, that it does not serve
our
national interest to deport these people any more than it served our
purpose
to put into prison those who lied about their age to enlist

Let us reset this a bit. You made a blanket claim that there are
illegal's in the
services. I responded that by law there isn't supposed to be.

Nice job comparing the underaged that sneak with your example using the
aunts ID.

The underaged if still underaged when discovered generally get sent home.

As the the lady in question, do you have links that indicate if she got an
immigration
hearing? Was she deported?

Wes

The last article I saw was in theLA Times, it said she had a hearing in a
day or two and was at risk - here is the article
http://articles.latimes.com/2010/apr...rmy-20100426/3

Based on that article, I'd sure be willing to give her a break.


and there is this article about the wife of a soldier who is "about to be
deported" (in 2009) because she was brought into the country illegally at
age 6 http://articles.latimes.com/2009/oct...mmig-soldier26,
and here is a more recent article about her
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...migarmy09.html
which seems to be nearly identical - no new information.

That one seems like a no brainer. She is married to a US Citizen. From the sound of it
they have been married for a few years so it wasn't a get into the country marriage that
can happen with those that serve outside the country.

Hell, my Aunt Peg from GB is a war bride. WWII in her case.



so, to answer your question - I don't know how her hearing came out, or IF
it has been held.

I wasn't able to google anything more on it.


I usually ignore these political posts, but I felt this deserved a "sharp"
response - I am absolutely not in favor of illegal immigration into this
country, however, there is also the notion of humanity, compassion, and
consideration for good deeds - as I stated originally, it does our country
no good, nor does it help anything to deport all who came illegally blindly
and without consideration - the soldier was one way for me to make this
point clearly.

I have a soft spot for those willing to serve. At least they are putting something in at
an early stage in their lives. Serving during times of war gets bonus points imho.

http://voices.kansascity.com/node/1225

http://www.weareoneamerica.org/immig...ary-fact-sheet




here is an article where we decided to do the right thing - at least
temporarily
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,285754,00.html

I'm glad she can stay. I have a heart besides, Jimenez is a citizen, a US Citizen should
be able to marry anyone they wish and bring them into this country.


Let us not be so fast to rush to judgment that we demonize everyone in a
group - what many did is no more wrong (maybe less wrong) than taking food
when you are hungry, and we often will forgive theft under those
circumstances. Fix the problem, but not by breaking the good people who are
part of it.

Some of the stories of those that risked all to get here can rip your heart out.

The problem is what is the fix? I'd like some really solid details on that to form an
favorable opinion of a fix being something other than strong border enforcement.

Will the fix encourage more illegal immigration?

Reagan cut a deal to 'solve' it, now there are more illegals.

Wes

On Sat, 8 May 2010 19:58:59 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:



"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Bill Noble" wrote:

ok, the US army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine core, to start with

No. They have their green card. And if willing to serve and having
served honorably, I'd
be glad to welcome as a new citizen.



not true - there is a case in the newspapers here about a lady who was
honorably discharged after 6 years, was 3 days from citizenship and the
discovered she had used her aunt's ID to enlist, so they are deporting her
back to (mexico? guatemala?) a country she has no memory of. I think that
is not fair to her, and I think it is not good for our country to just toss
these folks out.

So you are one of those that think Felony Fraud is just a little thing?

Gunner

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On Sun, 09 May 2010 15:20:53 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 8 May 2010 19:58:59 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:



"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Bill Noble" wrote:

ok, the US army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine core, to start with

No. They have their green card. And if willing to serve and having
served honorably, I'd
be glad to welcome as a new citizen.



not true - there is a case in the newspapers here about a lady who was
honorably discharged after 6 years, was 3 days from citizenship and the
discovered she had used her aunt's ID to enlist, so they are deporting her
back to (mexico? guatemala?) a country she has no memory of. I think that
is not fair to her, and I think it is not good for our country to just toss
these folks out.

So you are one of those that think Felony Fraud is just a little thing?

Gunner

I think it is in this case. I think we should welcome one who has
served honorably for six years. She's more than paid her dues.

Tell me everything you did while in the military was 100% squeaky
clean boy scout legal straight up non-felonious no ****
tell-the-truth no crosses count yoo betcha. I already know that you
love me and the check's in the mail.

Wayne in Arizona may disagree with me as usual, while enjoying and
nearly abusing the rights others have preserved for him. You and
Arizona Wayne in the same camp, ain't that a pair to draw to? Wayne
hugging Gunner in solidarity for defense of the realm Arizona style.
Gunner on banjo, Wayne on harmonica or something he can blow. Video
please? On second thought, skip the video: y'all enjoy now, hear?
Most vets have learned to pull their weight. We both know that, while
a few combat vets struggle or fail to adjust successfully to civilian
life, most vets become productive, contributive and often very
successful citizens.

I think this vet has earned admission to citizenship.

On Mon, 10 May 2010 00:25:47 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sun, 09 May 2010 15:20:53 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 8 May 2010 19:58:59 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:



"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Bill Noble" wrote:

ok, the US army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine core, to start with

No. They have their green card. And if willing to serve and having
served honorably, I'd
be glad to welcome as a new citizen.



not true - there is a case in the newspapers here about a lady who was
honorably discharged after 6 years, was 3 days from citizenship and the
discovered she had used her aunt's ID to enlist, so they are deporting her
back to (mexico? guatemala?) a country she has no memory of. I think that
is not fair to her, and I think it is not good for our country to just toss
these folks out.

So you are one of those that think Felony Fraud is just a little thing?

Gunner

I think it is in this case. I think we should welcome one who has
served honorably for six years. She's more than paid her dues.

Dont get me wrong..I believe as you do, that she should be allowed to
stay. But the fact of the matter is..she did..did commit a serious
crime.

Tell me everything you did while in the military was 100% squeaky
clean boy scout legal straight up non-felonious no ****
tell-the-truth no crosses count yoo betcha. I already know that you
love me and the check's in the mail.

VBG

Wayne in Arizona may disagree with me as usual, while enjoying and
nearly abusing the rights others have preserved for him. You and
Arizona Wayne in the same camp, ain't that a pair to draw to? Wayne
hugging Gunner in solidarity for defense of the realm Arizona style.
Gunner on banjo, Wayne on harmonica or something he can blow. Video
please? On second thought, skip the video: y'all enjoy now, hear?
Most vets have learned to pull their weight. We both know that, while
a few combat vets struggle or fail to adjust successfully to civilian
life, most vets become productive, contributive and often very
successful citizens.

I think this vet has earned admission to citizenship.

I do think she should be not simply tossed out, and a strong case could
be made for her citizenship. But the fact remains..that she indeed was
not..not..not a US citizen, and she did commit a felony case of at the
least, fraud, knowingly and with intent.

I fully understand that she came to this nation a 6 yrs old, and was not
a citizen..was a "wetback" legally. And served honorably for a number
of years. But she did so knowing full well she was committing a
rather serious crime.

On a one to one basis, Id say give her her citizenship. But the fact
remains, the only thing that seperates her from any other wetback
committing a crime and being deported, is her service in the military.

And that cannot be ignored

Gunner

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost

On Mon, 10 May 2010 00:25:47 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sun, 09 May 2010 15:20:53 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 8 May 2010 19:58:59 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:



"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Bill Noble" wrote:

ok, the US army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine core, to start with

No. They have their green card. And if willing to serve and having
served honorably, I'd
be glad to welcome as a new citizen.



not true - there is a case in the newspapers here about a lady who was
honorably discharged after 6 years, was 3 days from citizenship and the
discovered she had used her aunt's ID to enlist, so they are deporting her
back to (mexico? guatemala?) a country she has no memory of. I think that
is not fair to her, and I think it is not good for our country to just toss
these folks out.

So you are one of those that think Felony Fraud is just a little thing?

Gunner

I think it is in this case. I think we should welcome one who has
served honorably for six years. She's more than paid her dues.

Bravo. Right on all counts.

Tell me everything you did while in the military was 100% squeaky
clean boy scout legal straight up non-felonious no ****
tell-the-truth no crosses count yoo betcha. I already know that you
love me and the check's in the mail.

I doubt that many believe that gummer ever served. The odds of any one
of his tall tales being true must be infinitesimal.

Wayne in Arizona may disagree with me as usual, while enjoying and
nearly abusing the rights others have preserved for him. You and
Arizona Wayne in the same camp, ain't that a pair to draw to? Wayne
hugging Gunner in solidarity for defense of the realm Arizona style.
Gunner on banjo, Wayne on harmonica or something he can blow. Video
please? On second thought, skip the video: y'all enjoy now, hear?

Gawd, what a load of BS. Pure fiction and cheap shots. As it happens I
gave up much of my last weekend to rescue a vet whose bus/RV broke
down near here.

I think this vet has earned admission to citizenship.

Right. And you should have said that and nothing else given that you
can't seem to make a point without venturing off into crapland.

Wayne

On Mon, 10 May 2010 03:44:38 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2010 00:25:47 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sun, 09 May 2010 15:20:53 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 8 May 2010 19:58:59 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:



"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Bill Noble" wrote:

ok, the US army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine core, to start with

No. They have their green card. And if willing to serve and having
served honorably, I'd
be glad to welcome as a new citizen.



not true - there is a case in the newspapers here about a lady who was
honorably discharged after 6 years, was 3 days from citizenship and the
discovered she had used her aunt's ID to enlist, so they are deporting her
back to (mexico? guatemala?) a country she has no memory of. I think that
is not fair to her, and I think it is not good for our country to just toss
these folks out.

So you are one of those that think Felony Fraud is just a little thing?

Gunner

I think it is in this case. I think we should welcome one who has
served honorably for six years. She's more than paid her dues.

Dont get me wrong..I believe as you do, that she should be allowed to
stay. But the fact of the matter is..she did..did commit a serious
crime.

Tell me everything you did while in the military was 100% squeaky
clean boy scout legal straight up non-felonious no ****
tell-the-truth no crosses count yoo betcha. I already know that you
love me and the check's in the mail.

VBG

Wayne in Arizona may disagree with me as usual, while enjoying and
nearly abusing the rights others have preserved for him. You and
Arizona Wayne in the same camp, ain't that a pair to draw to? Wayne
hugging Gunner in solidarity for defense of the realm Arizona style.
Gunner on banjo, Wayne on harmonica or something he can blow. Video
please? On second thought, skip the video: y'all enjoy now, hear?
Most vets have learned to pull their weight. We both know that, while
a few combat vets struggle or fail to adjust successfully to civilian
life, most vets become productive, contributive and often very
successful citizens.

I think this vet has earned admission to citizenship.

I do think she should be not simply tossed out, and a strong case could
be made for her citizenship. But the fact remains..that she indeed was
not..not..not a US citizen, and she did commit a felony case of at the
least, fraud, knowingly and with intent.

I fully understand that she came to this nation a 6 yrs old, and was not
a citizen..was a "wetback" legally. And served honorably for a number
of years. But she did so knowing full well she was committing a
rather serious crime.

On a one to one basis, Id say give her her citizenship. But the fact
remains, the only thing that seperates her from any other wetback
committing a crime and being deported, is her service in the military.

And that cannot be ignored

Gunner

From Wikipedia:
"The label of "crime" and the accompanying social stigma normally
confine their scope to those activities seen as injurious to the
general population or to the State, including some that cause serious
loss or damage to individuals."

Those who do fraud with intent to harm or wrongfully take from others
should indeed be banned. One who misrepresents in order to serve
constructively has committed an administrative infraction, broken a
law if you must, but I don't see her as a criminal.

In article ,
Don Foreman wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2010 03:44:38 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2010 00:25:47 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sun, 09 May 2010 15:20:53 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 8 May 2010 19:58:59 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:



"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Bill Noble" wrote:

ok, the US army, Navy, Air Force, and Marine core, to start with

No. They have their green card. And if willing to serve and having
served honorably, I'd
be glad to welcome as a new citizen.



not true - there is a case in the newspapers here about a lady who was
honorably discharged after 6 years, was 3 days from citizenship and the
discovered she had used her aunt's ID to enlist, so they are deporting
her
back to (mexico? guatemala?) a country she has no memory of. I think
that
is not fair to her, and I think it is not good for our country to just
toss
these folks out.

So you are one of those that think Felony Fraud is just a little thing?

Gunner

I think it is in this case. I think we should welcome one who has
served honorably for six years. She's more than paid her dues.

Dont get me wrong..I believe as you do, that she should be allowed to
stay. But the fact of the matter is..she did..did commit a serious
crime.

Tell me everything you did while in the military was 100% squeaky
clean boy scout legal straight up non-felonious no ****
tell-the-truth no crosses count yoo betcha. I already know that you
love me and the check's in the mail.

VBG

Wayne in Arizona may disagree with me as usual, while enjoying and
nearly abusing the rights others have preserved for him. You and
Arizona Wayne in the same camp, ain't that a pair to draw to? Wayne
hugging Gunner in solidarity for defense of the realm Arizona style.
Gunner on banjo, Wayne on harmonica or something he can blow. Video
please? On second thought, skip the video: y'all enjoy now, hear?
Most vets have learned to pull their weight. We both know that, while
a few combat vets struggle or fail to adjust successfully to civilian
life, most vets become productive, contributive and often very
successful citizens.

I think this vet has earned admission to citizenship.

I do think she should be not simply tossed out, and a strong case could
be made for her citizenship. But the fact remains..that she indeed was
not..not..not a US citizen, and she did commit a felony case of at the
least, fraud, knowingly and with intent.

I fully understand that she came to this nation a 6 yrs old, and was not
a citizen..was a "wetback" legally. And served honorably for a number
of years. But she did so knowing full well she was committing a
rather serious crime.

On a one to one basis, Id say give her her citizenship. But the fact
remains, the only thing that seperates her from any other wetback
committing a crime and being deported, is her service in the military.

And that cannot be ignored

Gunner

From Wikipedia:
"The label of "crime" and the accompanying social stigma normally
confine their scope to those activities seen as injurious to the
general population or to the State, including some that cause serious
loss or damage to individuals."

Those who do fraud with intent to harm or wrongfully take from others
should indeed be banned. One who misrepresents in order to serve
constructively has committed an administrative infraction, broken a
law if you must, but I don't see her as a criminal.

A relevant distinction is between these two legal terms:

"malum in se" -- Wrong in itself - a crime that is inherently wrong.

"malum prohibitum" -- A prohibited wrong - A crime that society decides is wrong
for some reason, but is not inherently evil.

Joe Gwinn

On Mon, 10 May 2010 12:14:35 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2010 03:44:38 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:


I think it is in this case. I think we should welcome one who has
served honorably for six years. She's more than paid her dues.

Dont get me wrong..I believe as you do, that she should be allowed to
stay. But the fact of the matter is..she did..did commit a serious
crime.

Tell me everything you did while in the military was 100% squeaky
clean boy scout legal straight up non-felonious no ****
tell-the-truth no crosses count yoo betcha. I already know that you
love me and the check's in the mail.

VBG

Wayne in Arizona may disagree with me as usual, while enjoying and
nearly abusing the rights others have preserved for him. You and
Arizona Wayne in the same camp, ain't that a pair to draw to? Wayne
hugging Gunner in solidarity for defense of the realm Arizona style.
Gunner on banjo, Wayne on harmonica or something he can blow. Video
please? On second thought, skip the video: y'all enjoy now, hear?
Most vets have learned to pull their weight. We both know that, while
a few combat vets struggle or fail to adjust successfully to civilian
life, most vets become productive, contributive and often very
successful citizens.

I think this vet has earned admission to citizenship.

I do think she should be not simply tossed out, and a strong case could
be made for her citizenship. But the fact remains..that she indeed was
not..not..not a US citizen, and she did commit a felony case of at the
least, fraud, knowingly and with intent.

I fully understand that she came to this nation a 6 yrs old, and was not
a citizen..was a "wetback" legally. And served honorably for a number
of years. But she did so knowing full well she was committing a
rather serious crime.

On a one to one basis, Id say give her her citizenship. But the fact
remains, the only thing that seperates her from any other wetback
committing a crime and being deported, is her service in the military.

And that cannot be ignored

Gunner

From Wikipedia:
"The label of "crime" and the accompanying social stigma normally
confine their scope to those activities seen as injurious to the
general population or to the State, including some that cause serious
loss or damage to individuals."

Those who do fraud with intent to harm or wrongfully take from others
should indeed be banned. One who misrepresents in order to serve
constructively has committed an administrative infraction, broken a
law if you must, but I don't see her as a criminal.

In a different thread today you're sanctimoniously accusing a Nobel
Prize winner of hypocrisy, as if you'd otherwise do anything but find
a different way to demean the man. Yet here you're somehow able to
rationalize the undisputed hypocrisy of a guy who, best case, claims
to have served under another's name, but who has the gall to complain
about someone who really did serve honorably under another's name.
From Wikipedia: "The term double standard, coined in 1912,[1] refers
to any set of principles containing different provisions for one group
of people than for another, typically without a good reason for having
said difference." You might submit a photo of yourself for inclusion
in that article.

Wayne