On Wed, 12 May 2010 15:36:10 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

It's a sorry state of affairs but Canada is too freaking
cold

Depends... (I've forgotten what part of NJ you're in)

Newark climate
http://www.climate-charts.com/USA-St...J/NJ286026.php

Kamloops climate
http://www.climate-charts.com/Locati...7011637800.php

We'd better get up to speed on this stuff 'cause gummer says we have
to move or be culled. :-)

Wayne

On May 12, 2:21*pm, Ignoramus11203 ignoramus11...@NOSPAM.
11203.invalid

It would appear, then, that Al Gore basically said the truth about his
role in creating the Internet?

Am I missing anything?

i


The main thing you are missing is that the internet started before Al
Gore was in Congress. And that his votes on expanding the internet
were matched by a majority of Congress. I personally think the
internet would have expanded at the same rate regardless of what one
senator did or did not do. Google " internet history ".

My best guess is that I started using the internet about 1984 or 1985.

Dan

wrote in message
...
On May 12, 2:21 pm, Ignoramus11203 ignoramus11...@NOSPAM.
11203.invalid

It would appear, then, that Al Gore basically said the truth about his
role in creating the Internet?

Am I missing anything?

i


The main thing you are missing is that the internet started before Al
Gore was in Congress.

No, Gore was elected to Congress in 1976.

And that his votes on expanding the internet
were matched by a majority of Congress. I personally think the
internet would have expanded at the same rate regardless of what one
senator did or did not do. Google " internet history ".

My best guess is that I started using the internet about 1984 or 1985.

Then you were either a military or a university user. The first commercial
mail network on the Internet was MCI Mail, in 1988.

--
Ed Huntress

On 2010-05-13, Ed Huntress wrote:

wrote in message
...
On May 12, 2:21 pm, Ignoramus11203 ignoramus11...@NOSPAM.
11203.invalid

It would appear, then, that Al Gore basically said the truth about his
role in creating the Internet?

Am I missing anything?

i


The main thing you are missing is that the internet started before Al
Gore was in Congress.

No, Gore was elected to Congress in 1976.

And Internet was not called Internet in its first years.

And that his votes on expanding the internet
were matched by a majority of Congress. I personally think the
internet would have expanded at the same rate regardless of what one
senator did or did not do. Google " internet history ".

My best guess is that I started using the internet about 1984 or 1985.

Then you were either a military or a university user. The first
commercial mail network on the Internet was MCI Mail, in 1988.


I started using internet in 1994. Registered algebra.com in 1995.

i

"Ignoramus11203" wrote in message
...
On 2010-05-13, Ed Huntress wrote:

wrote in message
...
On May 12, 2:21 pm, Ignoramus11203 ignoramus11...@NOSPAM.
11203.invalid

It would appear, then, that Al Gore basically said the truth about his
role in creating the Internet?

Am I missing anything?

i


The main thing you are missing is that the internet started before Al
Gore was in Congress.

No, Gore was elected to Congress in 1976.

And Internet was not called Internet in its first years.

It didn't even exist then. It was ARPANET, and the only users were military
and some universities. There wasn't even a significant packet-switched
network until 1978.


And that his votes on expanding the internet
were matched by a majority of Congress. I personally think the
internet would have expanded at the same rate regardless of what one
senator did or did not do. Google " internet history ".

My best guess is that I started using the internet about 1984 or 1985.

Then you were either a military or a university user. The first
commercial mail network on the Internet was MCI Mail, in 1988.


I started using internet in 1994. Registered algebra.com in 1995.

i

On 5/12/2010 11:37 AM, John R. Carroll wrote:

Gore was a big tech booster while in the Senate and as VP.
Space exploration was another of his favorites.
His work helped keep a lot of projects funded.

Machinist friend of mine worked on parts for a satellite
telescope proposed by Gore. It was to be available over
the net so that school kids could pan and zoom over
the earth's surface from their classroom.

Too bad it was canceled.

--Winston

On May 12, 10:22*pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On May 12, 2:21 pm, Ignoramus11203 ignoramus11...@NOSPAM.
11203.invalid

It would appear, then, that Al Gore basically said the truth about his
role in creating the Internet?

Am I missing anything?

i

The main thing you are missing is that the internet started before Al
Gore was in Congress.

No, Gore was elected to Congress in 1976.

And that his votes on expanding the internet
were matched by a majority of Congress. *I personally think the
internet would have expanded at the same rate regardless of what one
senator did or did not do. *Google " internet history ".

My best guess is that I started using the internet about 1984 or 1985.

Then you were either a military or a university user. The first commercial
mail network on the Internet was MCI Mail, in 1988.

--
Ed Huntress

Yes, I know when Gore was first elected to Congress. Do you know when
the internet started?

I was a friend of Cynbe. So had access through his
computer.

Dan

In article ,
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

"John Husvar" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

"John Husvar" wrote in message
...
Now, why don't all of you grow up and realize most politician and
_both_
parties are damnable liars whose only real interest is power?

They may mean to rule well, but they mean to rule.

That's all they want. It's what they do.

Nonsense.

Show me.

Go out in the world and take a look for yourself, John. That kind of
throw-away cynicism is not worth arguing with.

Well then, don't argue with it, but don't call it throw-away. It's the
result of years of experience with Ohio politics, home of some of the
nastiest politics anywhere in Flyover Country. Chicago could take
lessons.

There may be reasons, possibly even good reasons, why politicians
abandon nearly everything they talked about during election campaigns,
but few if any ever explain why they do after elected.

How often have you ever heard a politician admit that he would only be
one vote on any issue and probably won't be able to change anything in
any meaningful way in one term; that he might be able to make a start,
but constituents should expect to be disappointed for a long time if
they expect significant change in how politics is done? For that matter,
how many voters really understand that?



I have yet to meet an honest one in either party, or at least one that
stayed honest more than six months into a term.

You must live in a bad place. I've known a couple, and they were serious
people. You need a strong ego and a strong desire for that work, but that
doesn't mean their only interest is power.

I do live in a bad place. You've known a couple; me too. They're
vanishingly rare. You did notice I wrote "most," eh?


The thing that bugs me these days is the cheap-shot politics practiced by
some of the more reprehensible members. That doesn't indict all of them.

Well the shots may be cheap, but the effects aren't.

wrote in message
...
On May 12, 10:22 pm, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On May 12, 2:21 pm, Ignoramus11203 ignoramus11...@NOSPAM.
11203.invalid

It would appear, then, that Al Gore basically said the truth about his
role in creating the Internet?

Am I missing anything?

i

The main thing you are missing is that the internet started before Al
Gore was in Congress.

No, Gore was elected to Congress in 1976.

And that his votes on expanding the internet
were matched by a majority of Congress. I personally think the
internet would have expanded at the same rate regardless of what one
senator did or did not do. Google " internet history ".

My best guess is that I started using the internet about 1984 or 1985.

Then you were either a military or a university user. The first commercial
mail network on the Internet was MCI Mail, in 1988.

--
Ed Huntress

Yes, I know when Gore was first elected to Congress. Do you know when
the internet started?

I depends on how you define it. The word "internet" was bandied about for
over a decade, and there were networks of various types. I was active on
CompuServe since 1983. But, again, the first commercial access to this son
of ARPANET was MCI Mail in 1988, and CompuServe at about the same time.
Before that, to experiment or use the network, you needed access through the
military or certain universities, or you had to be involved with the
hardware or software at the research level.

As for Al Gore's role, I provided one link to the Internet Society (ISOC)
that documents it with various references.

I was a friend of Cynbe. So had access through his computer.

Dan

John Husvar wrote:

In article ,
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

"John Husvar" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

"John Husvar" wrote in message
...
Now, why don't all of you grow up and realize most politician and
_both_
parties are damnable liars whose only real interest is power?

They may mean to rule well, but they mean to rule.

That's all they want. It's what they do.

Nonsense.

Show me.

Go out in the world and take a look for yourself, John. That kind of
throw-away cynicism is not worth arguing with.

Well then, don't argue with it, but don't call it throw-away. It's the
result of years of experience with Ohio politics, home of some of the
nastiest politics anywhere in Flyover Country. Chicago could take
lessons.


Well, Ohio did have a governor 'Gilligan'.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_J._Gilligan

I remember when he signed a bill requiring active duty military to
pay Ohio income tax, no matter where they were stationed. One of the
first things I saw when I got home was graffiti on a rail car that said,
"Goodbye, Gilligan!"


There may be reasons, possibly even good reasons, why politicians
abandon nearly everything they talked about during election campaigns,
but few if any ever explain why they do after elected.

How often have you ever heard a politician admit that he would only be
one vote on any issue and probably won't be able to change anything in
any meaningful way in one term; that he might be able to make a start,
but constituents should expect to be disappointed for a long time if
they expect significant change in how politics is done? For that matter,
how many voters really understand that?



I have yet to meet an honest one in either party, or at least one that
stayed honest more than six months into a term.

You must live in a bad place. I've known a couple, and they were serious
people. You need a strong ego and a strong desire for that work, but that
doesn't mean their only interest is power.

I do live in a bad place. You've known a couple; me too. They're
vanishingly rare. You did notice I wrote "most," eh?


The thing that bugs me these days is the cheap-shot politics practiced by
some of the more reprehensible members. That doesn't indict all of them.

Well the shots may be cheap, but the effects aren't.


I managed to get one bad Ohio politician out of office back in the
mid '80s. He forged two impound tickets to steal one of my service
trucks and my restored red '66 GTO. Since he was a politician the
chargers were 'Conversion of Property'. I sued him, and the towing
company. I got both vehicles back, along with cash settlements. The
publicity kept him from being re-elected, and cost the towing company a
lot of business.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Wed, 12 May 2010 22:32:16 -0700, Winston
wrote the following:

On 5/12/2010 11:37 AM, John R. Carroll wrote:

Gore was a big tech booster while in the Senate and as VP.
Space exploration was another of his favorites.
His work helped keep a lot of projects funded.

Machinist friend of mine worked on parts for a satellite
telescope proposed by Gore. It was to be available over
the net so that school kids could pan and zoom over
the earth's surface from their classroom.

Too bad it was canceled.

He probably realized that it could be used to illuminate the lack of
AGWK, so he quietly had it defunded.

--
You will find that the mere resolve not to be useless,
and the honest desire to help other people, will, in
the quickest and delicatest ways, improve yourself.
-- John Ruskin

"John Husvar" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

"John Husvar" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

"John Husvar" wrote in message
...
Now, why don't all of you grow up and realize most politician and
_both_
parties are damnable liars whose only real interest is power?

They may mean to rule well, but they mean to rule.

That's all they want. It's what they do.

Nonsense.

Show me.

Go out in the world and take a look for yourself, John. That kind of
throw-away cynicism is not worth arguing with.

Well then, don't argue with it, but don't call it throw-away. It's the
result of years of experience with Ohio politics, home of some of the
nastiest politics anywhere in Flyover Country. Chicago could take
lessons.

There may be reasons, possibly even good reasons, why politicians
abandon nearly everything they talked about during election campaigns,
but few if any ever explain why they do after elected.

How often have you ever heard a politician admit that he would only be
one vote on any issue and probably won't be able to change anything in
any meaningful way in one term; that he might be able to make a start,
but constituents should expect to be disappointed for a long time if
they expect significant change in how politics is done? For that matter,
how many voters really understand that?

You've just defined politics in a representative democracy, John. Part of it
is aspiration. Part of it is knowing we're voting for someone who shares our
frustrations and desires. Most of us know that political speech is about
what we want, where we want to go. But most of us, too, recognize that those
goals conflict with much of the power structure of our government (I'm
speaking of other people with political power and institutions, not
government itself), and that we can't expect to win many fights. A
politician who says he can't really do much is a politician who's given up
before he got started.

I never expected a lot from Obama because I have a sense of what he's up
against. I expected even less from McCain. So far, I think I voted the right
way. And I'm not at all cynical about it. Frustrated, but not cynical.

IMO, we blame politicians for everything, most of which is our own doing --
or more accurately, our *lack* of doing. Mostly we just bitch. We all love
to have scapegoats to help us deny responsibility, and government in general
overwhelms us all. We feel helpless and we expect the politicians to fix
everything for us. Only they can't, because we aren't prepared to do
anything ourselves.




I have yet to meet an honest one in either party, or at least one that
stayed honest more than six months into a term.

You must live in a bad place. I've known a couple, and they were serious
people. You need a strong ego and a strong desire for that work, but that
doesn't mean their only interest is power.

I do live in a bad place. You've known a couple; me too. They're
vanishingly rare. You did notice I wrote "most," eh?

My own opinion is that most of them have little leadership ability but they
love to play the game. It isn't just about power -- it's about the game
itself. They want to be where it's happening and they go along to get along.
And the ones who act the part well, and who are in the right place at the
right time, get elected. That's different from playing out a strategy to
gain personal power. I don't think that many of them are good strategists,
although almost all are capable tacticians.

But quite a few of them are idealists. Bill Bradley, former Senator from New
Jersey, is one of those. They tend to be effectual in only very limited
realms. I don't know what happens to their idealized visions; probably they
just get beaten out of them.



The thing that bugs me these days is the cheap-shot politics practiced by
some of the more reprehensible members. That doesn't indict all of them.

Well the shots may be cheap, but the effects aren't.

We're at a particularly low point, but it isn't the first time. Politics was
*really* ugly in the 19th century. We just haven't seen it this ugly in our
lifetimes. I think it's time to be realistic about what we have but I don't
think it's appropriate to blame the politicians themselves for the whole
mess. FWIW, most of it is just something I mentioned a couple of days ago,
that we have so many entrenched interests involved in politics now that
making anything move is like moving the Rock of Gibraltar.

That's why I give so much credit to Obama for getting health care reform
started. It hasn't accomplished very much yet, but it was the right thing to
do -- if you ever worked in health care, particularly with the insurance
industry, you know it's the ONLY thing to do -- and it cost him. He did it
on principle, and with a real understanding of how the economics of it work,
and of how little most people understand about it. He's no LBJ when it comes
to moving Congress, which, in a way, makes it even more impressive. He just
slugged his way through it.

We need more of those.

--
Ed Huntress

On 5/13/2010 7:21 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 12 May 2010 22:32:16 -0700,
wrote the following:

On 5/12/2010 11:37 AM, John R. Carroll wrote:

Gore was a big tech booster while in the Senate and as VP.
Space exploration was another of his favorites.
His work helped keep a lot of projects funded.

Machinist friend of mine worked on parts for a satellite
telescope proposed by Gore. It was to be available over
the net so that school kids could pan and zoom over
the earth's surface from their classroom.

Too bad it was canceled.

He probably realized that it could be used to illuminate the lack of
AGWK, so he quietly had it defunded.


Could be. It looks like a longer perspective is
necessary, though.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sh...-brink-ice-age

--Winston -- From the end of the recent interglacial pertubation

"Winston" wrote in message
...
On 5/13/2010 7:21 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 12 May 2010 22:32:16 -0700,
wrote the following:

On 5/12/2010 11:37 AM, John R. Carroll wrote:

Gore was a big tech booster while in the Senate and as VP.
Space exploration was another of his favorites.
His work helped keep a lot of projects funded.

Machinist friend of mine worked on parts for a satellite
telescope proposed by Gore. It was to be available over
the net so that school kids could pan and zoom over
the earth's surface from their classroom.

Too bad it was canceled.

He probably realized that it could be used to illuminate the lack of
AGWK, so he quietly had it defunded.


Could be. It looks like a longer perspective is
necessary, though.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sh...-brink-ice-age

--Winston -- From the end of the recent interglacial pertubation

Damn, if we didn't know better, you'd think that Pravda is published by a
country that has huge oil and gas reserves.

d8-)

(BTW, that wasn't Pravda. It was Pravda Online, which is separately owned
and staffed by a completely different organization. Of course, this fact is
a little over NewsBusters' heads, which are about six inches down into the
gutter, anyway.)

--
Ed Huntress

Ed Huntress wrote:
"Winston" wrote in message
...
On 5/13/2010 7:21 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 12 May 2010 22:32:16 -0700,
wrote the following:

On 5/12/2010 11:37 AM, John R. Carroll wrote:

Gore was a big tech booster while in the Senate and as VP.
Space exploration was another of his favorites.
His work helped keep a lot of projects funded.
Machinist friend of mine worked on parts for a satellite
telescope proposed by Gore. It was to be available over
the net so that school kids could pan and zoom over
the earth's surface from their classroom.

Too bad it was canceled.
He probably realized that it could be used to illuminate the lack of
AGWK, so he quietly had it defunded.

Could be. It looks like a longer perspective is
necessary, though.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sh...-brink-ice-age

--Winston -- From the end of the recent interglacial pertubation

Damn, if we didn't know better, you'd think that Pravda is published by a
country that has huge oil and gas reserves.

....and expertise in cold-weather operations at all levels

On 5/13/2010 9:55 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:

(...)

(BTW, that wasn't Pravda. It was Pravda Online, which is separately owned
and staffed by a completely different organization. Of course, this fact is
a little over NewsBusters' heads, which are about six inches down into the
gutter, anyway.)

I'm hip.

--Winston

"Winston" wrote in message
...
On 5/13/2010 9:55 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:

(...)

(BTW, that wasn't Pravda. It was Pravda Online, which is separately owned
and staffed by a completely different organization. Of course, this fact
is
a little over NewsBusters' heads, which are about six inches down into
the
gutter, anyway.)

I'm hip.

Well, heck, we KNEW that. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

On 5/13/2010 11:19 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
wrote in message
...
On 5/13/2010 9:55 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:

(...)

(BTW, that wasn't Pravda. It was Pravda Online, which is separately owned
and staffed by a completely different organization. Of course, this fact
is
a little over NewsBusters' heads, which are about six inches down into
the
gutter, anyway.)

I'm hip.

Well, heck, we KNEW that. d8-)

Radical, dude.

--Winston

On Thu, 13 May 2010 09:18:01 -0700, Winston
wrote the following:

On 5/13/2010 7:21 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 12 May 2010 22:32:16 -0700,
wrote the following:

On 5/12/2010 11:37 AM, John R. Carroll wrote:

Gore was a big tech booster while in the Senate and as VP.
Space exploration was another of his favorites.
His work helped keep a lot of projects funded.

Machinist friend of mine worked on parts for a satellite
telescope proposed by Gore. It was to be available over
the net so that school kids could pan and zoom over
the earth's surface from their classroom.

Too bad it was canceled.

He probably realized that it could be used to illuminate the lack of
AGWK, so he quietly had it defunded.


Could be. It looks like a longer perspective is
necessary, though.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sh...-brink-ice-age


--Winston -- From the end of the recent interglacial pertubation

You'll go blind! Speaking of which, I'd love to get hot and nasty
with Jodi Miller, nicely busted bustler from Newsbusted. That was one
of her funniest dialogs yet.

--
You will find that the mere resolve not to be useless,
and the honest desire to help other people, will, in
the quickest and delicatest ways, improve yourself.
-- John Ruskin

Larry Jaques wrote:

You'll go blind! Speaking of which, I'd love to get hot and nasty
with Jodi Miller, nicely busted bustler from Newsbusted. That was one
of her funniest dialogs yet.


According to her website, she's 103 years old.


http://www.myspace.com/JodiLMiller


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

I was using INTERANET first then Internet. The first one company
over seas and around the world - massive IT project. By office IT budget firstly.

By 87 or 88 we were on the Internet - being asked to carry some of the load on
the company net.

Then in the 90's - Banknet ask to be added to ours and then Fednet to ours
and finally MILnet to ours. When Banknet was added we were in almost 100
countries. Fednet added embassies in places that had RF radio only. This
was mostly needed in Africa and South East Asia. Milnet was added for the
embassies and off shore bases.

The best story was laying big wire - old heads know big wire internet wire -
around the Great Salt Lake - and down a fence line of a farmer/rancher.
It worked and we leased the land for the use. He boobed and cut the line
with his tractor - mended it with barbwire and gave IT fits for a while.

Martin

On 5/12/2010 9:23 PM, Ignoramus11203 wrote:
On 2010-05-13, Ed wrote:

wrote in message
...
On May 12, 2:21 pm, Ignoramus11203ignoramus11...@NOSPAM.
11203.invalid

It would appear, then, that Al Gore basically said the truth about his
role in creating the Internet?

Am I missing anything?

i


The main thing you are missing is that the internet started before Al
Gore was in Congress.

No, Gore was elected to Congress in 1976.

And Internet was not called Internet in its first years.

And that his votes on expanding the internet
were matched by a majority of Congress. I personally think the
internet would have expanded at the same rate regardless of what one
senator did or did not do. Google " internet history ".

My best guess is that I started using the internet about 1984 or 1985.

Then you were either a military or a university user. The first
commercial mail network on the Internet was MCI Mail, in 1988.


I started using internet in 1994. Registered algebra.com in 1995.

i

On 5/13/2010 1:12 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 13 May 2010 09:18:01 -0700,
wrote the following:


(...)

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sh...-brink-ice-age


--Winston-- From the end of the recent interglacial pertubation

You'll go blind!

Bup! I meant 'perturbation' of course.


Speaking of which, I'd love to get hot and nasty
with Jodi Miller, nicely busted bustler from Newsbusted. That was one
of her funniest dialogs yet.

Yup. There's yer soulmate, Larry!

--Winston

On Thu, 13 May 2010 11:12:29 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:



That's why I give so much credit to Obama for getting health care reform
started. It hasn't accomplished very much yet, but it was the right thing to
do -- if you ever worked in health care, particularly with the insurance
industry, you know it's the ONLY thing to do -- and it cost him. He did it
on principle, and with a real understanding of how the economics of it work,
and of how little most people understand about it. He's no LBJ when it comes
to moving Congress, which, in a way, makes it even more impressive. He just
slugged his way through it.

We need more of those.

Roger that.

On Wed, 12 May 2010 13:36:41 -0500, Ignoramus11203
wrote:


You know Ed, I am very ****ed off, then, about how the conservatives
lied about his actual statements and made Al Gore appear like a
buffoon, for what he essentially did not say at all.

I am very angry at this moment, I do not know why exactly. I took it
on faith that Al Gore did actually say that he "invented the
Internet".

Republican party has become extremely dishonest. I hope that it is
kept away from power for long enough to mend its ways.

i

Coming from a Russian immigrant who fled the abuses of Russia..and
became a Democrat when he got here..is fascinating on so many many
levels...........


Gunner

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost