while the 99% scream about politics, can the three remaining people who
remember anything about metal and working chime in here?

I use a chucking reamer to make accurate holes after drilling them on my
lathe (these are adapters of various kinds) - I center drill, then drill,
then put the reamer into the drill chuck to ream. But there is a problem -
drill chucks, even on the best of days are not high precision - the spec is
..015 runout measured 2 inches from the chuck at 1/2 max diameter (from the
Jacob's site) - so with a chucking reamer that is 6 to 8 inches long, that
..015 becomes a much more significant number. The answer is, of course some
kind of floating holder - and I can get ones in various configurations - so
the question is, what makes sense? Glenco makes nice units with a MT3
(male and female) so one can put them in series with the chuck, there is
quite a range of other units

thoughts, about this subject please (no politics - let's see if it's
possible)

--
Bill -
www.wbnoble.com

"Bill Noble" wrote in message
...
while the 99% scream about politics, can the three remaining people who
remember anything about metal and working chime in here?

I use a chucking reamer to make accurate holes after drilling them on my
lathe (these are adapters of various kinds) - I center drill, then drill,
then put the reamer into the drill chuck to ream. But there is a
problem - drill chucks, even on the best of days are not high precision -
the spec is .015 runout measured 2 inches from the chuck at 1/2 max
diameter (from the Jacob's site) - so with a chucking reamer that is 6 to
8 inches long, that .015 becomes a much more significant number. The
answer is, of course some kind of floating holder - and I can get ones in
various configurations - so the question is, what makes sense? Glenco
makes nice units with a MT3 (male and female) so one can put them in
series with the chuck, there is quite a range of other units

thoughts, about this subject please (no politics - let's see if it's
possible)

--
Bill -
www.wbnoble.com

I use kennametal floating collet chucks, they work well in both the
lathe and drill press. They show up on ebay on a regular basis.

Best Regards
Tom.

On May 4, 12:38*am, "Bill Noble" wrote:
while the 99% scream about politics, can the three remaining people who
remember anything about metal and working chime in here?

I use a chucking reamer to make accurate holes after drilling them on my
lathe (these are adapters of various kinds) - I center drill, then drill,
then put the reamer into the drill chuck to ream. *But there is a problem -
drill chucks, even on the best of days are not high precision - the spec is
.015 runout measured 2 inches from the chuck at 1/2 max diameter (from the
Jacob's site) - so with a chucking reamer that is 6 to 8 inches long, that
.015 becomes a much more significant number. *The answer is, of course some
kind of floating holder - and I can get ones in various configurations - so
the question is, what makes sense? * Glenco makes nice units with a MT3
(male and female) so *one can put them in series with the chuck, there is
quite a range of other units

thoughts, about this subject please (no politics - let's see if it's
possible)

--
Bill *-www.wbnoble.com

Hi Bill,
I was taught on old worn out equipment.
We used to load the reamer in the tailstock and push the whole
tailstock in by hand - that is usually enough float to avoid
bellmouthing.
After all, your feed rate is at least triple the drill feed.
I've seen very few reamers with dead nuts shanks.
Hope that helps.

ww

On May 4, 1:38*am, "Bill Noble" wrote:
...
I use a chucking reamer to make accurate holes after drilling them on my
lathe (these are adapters of various kinds) - I center drill, then drill,
then put the reamer into the drill chuck to ream. *But there is a problem -
...
Bill *-www.wbnoble.com

I guide reamers with the dead center and hold or turn them with a tap
wrench.

jsw

On May 3, 11:38*pm, "Bill Noble" wrote:
while the 99% scream about politics, can the three remaining people who
remember anything about metal and working chime in here?

I use a chucking reamer to make accurate holes after drilling them on my
lathe (these are adapters of various kinds) - I center drill, then drill,
then put the reamer into the drill chuck to ream. *But there is a problem -
drill chucks, even on the best of days are not high precision - the spec is
.015 runout measured 2 inches from the chuck at 1/2 max diameter (from the
Jacob's site) - so with a chucking reamer that is 6 to 8 inches long, that
.015 becomes a much more significant number. *The answer is, of course some
kind of floating holder - and I can get ones in various configurations - so
the question is, what makes sense? * Glenco makes nice units with a MT3
(male and female) so *one can put them in series with the chuck, there is
quite a range of other units

thoughts, about this subject please (no politics - let's see if it's
possible)

--
Bill *-www.wbnoble.com

There are floating reamer holders, gunsmiths use them all the time
with chambering reamers. I assume they're a standard item in the
supplier catalogs. Here are a couple, don't look too complicated to
make:
http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#rea..._1-2-4_8-16-32

Stan

On May 3, 10:38*pm, "Bill Noble" wrote:
while the 99% scream about politics, can the three remaining people who
remember anything about metal and working chime in here?


If you read this group through Google Groups, there is a flag on each
posting
"report spam".

I would assume that if enough people read the group through google and
report
blatently off topic posts as spam...

Try it on this post if you like.

DOC

On 5/3/2010 10:38 PM, Bill Noble wrote:
while the 99% scream about politics, can the three remaining people who
remember anything about metal and working chime in here?

I use a chucking reamer to make accurate holes after drilling them on my
lathe (these are adapters of various kinds) - I center drill, then
drill, then put the reamer into the drill chuck to ream. But there is a
problem - drill chucks, even on the best of days are not high precision
- the spec is .015 runout measured 2 inches from the chuck at 1/2 max
diameter (from the Jacob's site) - so with a chucking reamer that is 6
to 8 inches long, that .015 becomes a much more significant number. The
answer is, of course some kind of floating holder - and I can get ones
in various configurations - so the question is, what makes sense? Glenco
makes nice units with a MT3 (male and female) so one can put them in
series with the chuck, there is quite a range of other units

thoughts, about this subject please (no politics - let's see if it's
possible)

I use ER40 collets with in a ER40 collet holder adapted to a #3 morse
taper with shank. Which is also real nice to hold assorted mills to
cutting un-tapered holes.

cheers
T.Alan

On 2010-05-04, Bill Noble wrote:
while the 99% scream about politics, can the three remaining people who
remember anything about metal and working chime in here?

I use a chucking reamer to make accurate holes after drilling them on my
lathe (these are adapters of various kinds) - I center drill, then drill,
then put the reamer into the drill chuck to ream. But there is a problem -
drill chucks, even on the best of days are not high precision - the spec is
.015 runout measured 2 inches from the chuck at 1/2 max diameter (from the
Jacob's site) - so with a chucking reamer that is 6 to 8 inches long, that
.015 becomes a much more significant number. The answer is, of course some
kind of floating holder - and I can get ones in various configurations - so
the question is, what makes sense? Glenco makes nice units with a MT3
(male and female) so one can put them in series with the chuck, there is
quite a range of other units

Hmm ... you need the floating holder to be able to self center
as the reamer contacts the workpiece. For this, you would want the mass
which has to move to be minimal -- thus no chuck involved.

The ones which I have are made with 1" cylindrical shanks, to be
used in the bed turret for my lathe. Six stations, each with its own
simple tool, complex tool, or combination tool.

If I were drilling and reaming lots of parts, I would set the a
depth stop in the first station, a center drill in the second station,
the pre-ream drill bit in the third station, and the forth station would
have the reamer in a floating holder, and on the first workpiece I would
tease it into the hole while the lock-downs were loose, tap it a bit as
I worked my may about half-way down the reamer or so, then lock down the
floating holder so it would start and remain on center every time that
station came up.

Of course, my floating reamer holders are not the same as
others. They will move a bit sideways in all directions until I lock up
the clamping bolts.

Here is one on eBay which looks interesting, and which might do
what you need:

200466895813

It is rather different from the ones which I have (which came with my
lathe and bed turret -- two of those, three Jacobs drill chucks, and no
other tools. I spent a while picking up turret tooling from eBay and
learning what each did for me.

thoughts, about this subject please (no politics - let's see if it's
possible)

It is for me.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

wrote in message
...
On May 3, 11:38 pm, "Bill Noble" wrote:
while the 99% scream about politics, can the three remaining people who
remember anything about metal and working chime in here?

I use a chucking reamer to make accurate holes after drilling them on my
lathe (these are adapters of various kinds) - I center drill, then drill,
then put the reamer into the drill chuck to ream. But there is a problem -
drill chucks, even on the best of days are not high precision - the spec
is
.015 runout measured 2 inches from the chuck at 1/2 max diameter (from the
Jacob's site) - so with a chucking reamer that is 6 to 8 inches long, that
.015 becomes a much more significant number. The answer is, of course some
kind of floating holder - and I can get ones in various configurations -
so
the question is, what makes sense? Glenco makes nice units with a MT3
(male and female) so one can put them in series with the chuck, there is
quite a range of other units

thoughts, about this subject please (no politics - let's see if it's
possible)

--
Bill -www.wbnoble.com

There are floating reamer holders, gunsmiths use them all the time
with chambering reamers. I assume they're a standard item in the
supplier catalogs. Here are a couple, don't look too complicated to
make:
http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#rea..._1-2-4_8-16-32

Stan

Rank amateur machinist that I am, I have to ask this dumb question. The
reamer used in this gunsmith floating holder would have to be prevented from
turning once engaged in the hole, right? With a tap wrench, etc.?

Garrett Fulton

On Tue, 4 May 2010 03:31:33 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
wrote:

On May 4, 1:38*am, "Bill Noble" wrote:
...
I use a chucking reamer to make accurate holes after drilling them on my
lathe (these are adapters of various kinds) - I center drill, then drill,
then put the reamer into the drill chuck to ream. *But there is a problem -
...
Bill *-www.wbnoble.com

I guide reamers with the dead center and hold or turn them with a tap
wrench.

jsw

Then I take you are using hand reamers. Chucking reamers do not have
a square on them.

Morse taper to collet adaptor might be the answer.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.

On May 5, 4:45*am, "Garrett Fulton" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On May 3, 11:38 pm, "Bill Noble" wrote:





while the 99% scream about politics, can the three remaining people who
remember anything about metal and working chime in here?

I use a chucking reamer to make accurate holes after drilling them on my
lathe (these are adapters of various kinds) - I center drill, then drill,
then put the reamer into the drill chuck to ream. But there is a problem -
drill chucks, even on the best of days are not high precision - the spec
is
.015 runout measured 2 inches from the chuck at 1/2 max diameter (from the
Jacob's site) - so with a chucking reamer that is 6 to 8 inches long, that
.015 becomes a much more significant number. The answer is, of course some
kind of floating holder - and I can get ones in various configurations -
so
the question is, what makes sense? Glenco makes nice units with a MT3
(male and female) so one can put them in series with the chuck, there is
quite a range of other units

thoughts, about this subject please (no politics - let's see if it's
possible)

--
Bill -www.wbnoble.com

There are floating reamer holders, gunsmiths use them all the time
with chambering reamers. *I assume they're a standard item in the
supplier catalogs. *Here are a couple, don't look too complicated to
make:http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#rea..._1-2-4_8-16-32

Stan

Rank amateur machinist that I am, I have to ask this dumb question. *The
reamer used in this gunsmith floating holder would have to be prevented from
turning once engaged in the hole, right? *With a tap wrench, etc.?

Garrett Fulton- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Chamber reamers have a square on the end, so fall into the hand or
manual category. If you look at the Bald Eagle brand reamer holder in
the link, you'll see a bar clearly screwed into the shank holder
portion. So, the answer to your question is that, yes, there has to
be a way to keep the reamer from rotating. Sans specialty reamer
holder, guys have used a center in the tailstock and a clamp-on tap
wrench, AKA "dogbone". If everything isn't lined up right, you end up
with an off-center chamber or at least an over-sized one.

Stan

wrote in message
...
On May 5, 4:45 am, "Garrett Fulton" wrote:
wrote in message

...
On May 3, 11:38 pm, "Bill Noble" wrote:





while the 99% scream about politics, can the three remaining people who
remember anything about metal and working chime in here?

I use a chucking reamer to make accurate holes after drilling them on my
lathe (these are adapters of various kinds) - I center drill, then
drill,
then put the reamer into the drill chuck to ream. But there is a
problem -
drill chucks, even on the best of days are not high precision - the spec
is
.015 runout measured 2 inches from the chuck at 1/2 max diameter (from
the
Jacob's site) - so with a chucking reamer that is 6 to 8 inches long,
that
.015 becomes a much more significant number. The answer is, of course
some
kind of floating holder - and I can get ones in various configurations -
so
the question is, what makes sense? Glenco makes nice units with a MT3
(male and female) so one can put them in series with the chuck, there is
quite a range of other units

thoughts, about this subject please (no politics - let's see if it's
possible)

--
Bill -www.wbnoble.com

There are floating reamer holders, gunsmiths use them all the time
with chambering reamers. I assume they're a standard item in the
supplier catalogs. Here are a couple, don't look too complicated to
make:http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#rea..._1-2-4_8-16-32

Stan

Rank amateur machinist that I am, I have to ask this dumb question. The
reamer used in this gunsmith floating holder would have to be prevented
from
turning once engaged in the hole, right? With a tap wrench, etc.?

Garrett Fulton- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Chamber reamers have a square on the end, so fall into the hand or
manual category. If you look at the Bald Eagle brand reamer holder in
the link, you'll see a bar clearly screwed into the shank holder
portion. So, the answer to your question is that, yes, there has to
be a way to keep the reamer from rotating. Sans specialty reamer
holder, guys have used a center in the tailstock and a clamp-on tap
wrench, AKA "dogbone". If everything isn't lined up right, you end up
with an off-center chamber or at least an over-sized one.

Stan

Thanks, Stan. That clears it up.

Garrett

On May 5, 8:41*am, Randy wrote:
On Tue, 4 May 2010 03:31:33 -0700 (PDT), Jim Wilkins
...
I guide reamers with the dead center and hold or turn them with a tap
wrench.
jsw

Then I take you are using hand reamers. * Chucking reamers do not have
a square on them.

Not initially.

jsw

"Bill Noble" wrote:

I use a chucking reamer to make accurate holes after drilling them on my
lathe (these are adapters of various kinds) - I center drill, then drill,
then put the reamer into the drill chuck to ream. But there is a problem -
drill chucks, even on the best of days are not high precision - the spec is
.015 runout measured 2 inches from the chuck at 1/2 max diameter (from the
Jacob's site) - so with a chucking reamer that is 6 to 8 inches long, that
.015 becomes a much more significant number. The answer is, of course some
kind of floating holder - and I can get ones in various configurations - so
the question is, what makes sense? Glenco makes nice units with a MT3
(male and female) so one can put them in series with the chuck, there is
quite a range of other units

That 0.015", is that TIR?

I tried Albrechs site and didn't find any usable info on accuracy.

ER series collets? They don't look symetrical as far as tapers on each end.

Jacobs made Rubberflex collets that had a large range.


Wes

On May 5, 6:13*pm, Wes wrote:
"Bill Noble" wrote:
I use a chucking reamer to make accurate holes after drilling them on my
lathe (these are adapters of various kinds) - I center drill, then drill,
then put the reamer into the drill chuck to ream. *But there is a problem -
drill chucks, even on the best of days are not high precision - the spec is
.015 runout measured 2 inches from the chuck ...

You could easily indicate it and mark the chuck This Side Up.

Cut a short piece of 0.500 drill rod to center in the spindle chuck
and a longer one to put in the tailstock chuck. Move them together and
see how closely they align. A milling edge finder works, but doesn't
show runout away from the drill chuck.

jsw

On 2010-05-05, Garrett Fulton wrote:

wrote in message
...
On May 3, 11:38 pm, "Bill Noble" wrote:
while the 99% scream about politics, can the three remaining people who
remember anything about metal and working chime in here?

I use a chucking reamer to make accurate holes after drilling them on my
lathe (these are adapters of various kinds) - I center drill, then drill,
then put the reamer into the drill chuck to ream. But there is a problem -
drill chucks, even on the best of days are not high precision - the spec
is
.015 runout measured 2 inches from the chuck at 1/2 max diameter (from the
Jacob's site) - so with a chucking reamer that is 6 to 8 inches long, that
.015 becomes a much more significant number. The answer is, of course some
kind of floating holder - and I can get ones in various configurations -
so
the question is, what makes sense? Glenco makes nice units with a MT3
(male and female) so one can put them in series with the chuck, there is
quite a range of other units

thoughts, about this subject please (no politics - let's see if it's
possible)

--
Bill -www.wbnoble.com

There are floating reamer holders, gunsmiths use them all the time
with chambering reamers. I assume they're a standard item in the
supplier catalogs. Here are a couple, don't look too complicated to
make:
http://www.midwayusa.com/Search/#rea..._1-2-4_8-16-32

Stan

Rank amateur machinist that I am, I have to ask this dumb question. The
reamer used in this gunsmith floating holder would have to be prevented from
turning once engaged in the hole, right? With a tap wrench, etc.?

A chucking reamer does not have the flats needed for a tap
wrench to be of use. That only works with a hand reamer (which also has
a much longer lead-in taper).

The floating reamer holder allows the reamer to self center, but
prevents it from freely rotating.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On May 5, 6:13 pm, Wes wrote:
"Bill Noble" wrote:
I use a chucking reamer to make accurate holes after drilling them on my
lathe (these are adapters of various kinds) - I center drill, then
drill,
then put the reamer into the drill chuck to ream. But there is a
problem -
drill chucks, even on the best of days are not high precision - the spec
is
.015 runout measured 2 inches from the chuck ...

You could easily indicate it and mark the chuck This Side Up.

Cut a short piece of 0.500 drill rod to center in the spindle chuck
and a longer one to put in the tailstock chuck. Move them together and
see how closely they align. A milling edge finder works, but doesn't
show runout away from the drill chuck.

jsw

1. thanks for all the hints - some useful to me, some seem to be helpful to
others

2. per comment above - a chuck on an MT3 taper has a tang so there are two
and only two orientations - but it doesn't matter if you think about it - in
whatever orientation it is used, the angular error will put the reamer (or
drill, for that matter) off center.

3. runout specs for Jacob's chucks are here
http://www.jacobschuck.com/images/pr...%20(ENG)-1.pdf -
the typical value is .004 at 1.5 inches. So, if my chuck were in spec, and
a 5/8 reamer was 9 inches long, protruding say 6 inches, I'd expect to have
..016 misalignment - I get more than that, so the chuck probably has some
wear (or older chucks weren't as accurate - I remember a much larger number
the last time I looked at the spec).

4. I looked at the holders with collets - that's great, but I have these
reamers that go from really small to 1/2 inch by 64ths - the reason for
using the chuck was just to not deal with a zillion collets - but maybe I
should reconsider???

It seems to me that "chucking reamers" are designed to be held in a chuck,
so why can't I do that? Don N makes the moving mass point - that makes
sense - of course I have a regular Logan/Powermatic 12 inch lathe, not a
turret lathe so I can't do his trickery with the turret. I'd like to be
able to hold this range - from 1/8 to 1/2 (at least) in a floating holder -
of course I could get reamers with an MT-3 end, but like many with a home
shop, I have a space problem and even with unlimited funds I couldn't store
all the 'perfect' tools - the chucking reamers and some kind of floating
holder seems like the perfect solution.

so ?????

there is a range of items on e-bay, and other places - I find many with an
"automotive shank" - I can borrow a friend's lathe and turn the automotive
shank to a MT-3 and then I have what I want - maybe this is the way to
go????

(and miracle of miracles - two days and no politics intruding - excellent)

"Bill Noble" wrote:

3. runout specs for Jacob's chucks are here
http://www.jacobschuck.com/images/pr...%20(ENG)-1.pdf -
the typical value is .004 at 1.5 inches. So, if my chuck were in spec, and
a 5/8 reamer was 9 inches long, protruding say 6 inches, I'd expect to have
.016 misalignment - I get more than that, so the chuck probably has some
wear (or older chucks weren't as accurate - I remember a much larger number
the last time I looked at the spec).

That is a run out figure at a distance. What we don't know is what kinds of errors caused
that amount of run out. Are the jaws and jaw body made at the correct angles to hold a
drill parallel to the centerline of the chuck or maybe the drill is pointing straight but
not centered perfectly? It would make a difference on how you extrapolate the numbers. I
assume it is a mix of both but what is the bias?

You drilled the hole with the lathe. Drilling a hole by turning the work vs turning the
drill tends to make the straightest hole. It also tends to drive the drill to the center
of rotation of the work piece. Why wouldn't running a reamer have the same benefit from
the unique properties of drilling on a lathe?


Wes

Wes wrote:
[EDIT]

That is a run out figure at a distance. What we don't know is what kinds of errors caused
that amount of run out. Are the jaws and jaw body made at the correct angles to hold a
drill parallel to the centerline of the chuck or is their angular runout? It would make a difference on how you extrapolate the numbers. I
assume it is a mix of both but what is the bias?
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On May 6, 5:17*pm, Wes wrote:
...
You drilled the hole with the lathe. *Drilling a hole by turning the work vs turning the
drill tends to make the straightest hole. It also tends to drive the drill to the center
of rotation of the work piece. * Why wouldn't running a reamer have the same benefit from
the unique properties of drilling on a lathe?
Wes

On my old lathe the drill bit obviously tries to center itself but
can't always overcome the handicaps of age and infirmity (the
machine's). Before reaming I run a boring bar in and usually can hear
some eccentricity and taper in the cut.

I've found combinations of chuck and tailstock position that drill
straighter than others. The best is a Collis center drill holder with
the tailstock almost fully retracted.
http://www.collistoolholder.com/cgi-...yp=CAT_9_TYP_Q

If your tailstock has a keying slot maybe you could pop the chuck off
the adapter and see if you can find a new position for it that
counteracts other arbor and tailstock spindle errors like droop or not
being exactly at headstock spindle height.

jsw

"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Bill Noble" wrote:

3. runout specs for Jacob's chucks are here
http://www.jacobschuck.com/images/pr...%20(ENG)-1.pdf
-
the typical value is .004 at 1.5 inches. So, if my chuck were in spec,
and
a 5/8 reamer was 9 inches long, protruding say 6 inches, I'd expect to
have
.016 misalignment - I get more than that, so the chuck probably has some
wear (or older chucks weren't as accurate - I remember a much larger
number
the last time I looked at the spec).

That is a run out figure at a distance. What we don't know is what kinds
of errors caused
that amount of run out. Are the jaws and jaw body made at the correct
angles to hold a
drill parallel to the centerline of the chuck or maybe the drill is
pointing straight but
not centered perfectly? It would make a difference on how you extrapolate
the numbers. I
assume it is a mix of both but what is the bias?

You drilled the hole with the lathe. Drilling a hole by turning the work
vs turning the
drill tends to make the straightest hole. It also tends to drive the drill
to the center
of rotation of the work piece. Why wouldn't running a reamer have the
same benefit from
the unique properties of drilling on a lathe?


Wes

partially right Wes, but if the reamer is off center, it has outward
pressure on the hole as it enters and so it makes a slightly funneled hole,
plus (this is a hobby, remember) it annoys the BEEEP out of me. There may
be some additional wear on the jaws of this unit - the error is angular, not
centering - a center drill held in the chuck drills in the center of the
work, but a reamer that extends out from the chuck does not.

Jim W - there may be some combo of rearranging the chuck (which is the
biggest of the Jacob's ball bearing chucks, the one that holds 3/4 inch) on
it's JT to MT adapter that would make it better, but I doubt it. My
conclusion is "don't bother trying to fix it, get the right tool" - I'm just
trying to figure out what the right tool actually is - maybe a holder with
the rubberflex collets?

On 2010-05-06, Bill Noble wrote:

[ ... ]

It seems to me that "chucking reamers" are designed to be held in a chuck,
so why can't I do that? Don N makes the moving mass point - that makes
sense - of course I have a regular Logan/Powermatic 12 inch lathe, not a
turret lathe so I can't do his trickery with the turret.

As someone else posted yesterday, the chucking reamers have a
long fairly skinny shank, so even if the chuck is introducing errors,
the shank will allow the cutting forces to re-center the reamer -- as
long as you don't shorten the shank for convenience. :-)

I'd like to be
able to hold this range - from 1/8 to 1/2 (at least) in a floating holder -
of course I could get reamers with an MT-3 end, but like many with a home
shop, I have a space problem and even with unlimited funds I couldn't store
all the 'perfect' tools - the chucking reamers and some kind of floating
holder seems like the perfect solution.

You can probably get away without the floating holder given the
flexibility of the long shanks.

so ?????

there is a range of items on e-bay, and other places - I find many with an
"automotive shank" - I can borrow a friend's lathe and turn the automotive
shank to a MT-3 and then I have what I want - maybe this is the way to
go????

Not sure what an automotive shank is on a reamer. Perhaps
something for reaming bearings (such as ones for a camshaft) in line?

(and miracle of miracles - two days and no politics intruding - excellent)

:-)

Keep asking questions and maybe we can outnumber the political
postings?

Enjoy,
DoN.

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On May 7, 2:02*am, "Bill Noble" wrote:
...
I guess I don't understand those flex collets with the rubber - is the point
of the rubber to give a wide holding range or to allow some degree of
floating of the tool being held?
....

Rubberflex collets have thin tapered metal jaws like the ones in a
Darex Drill Doctor chuck, but embedded in rubber.

The Jacobs #36 is the least accurate of my tailstock chucks because it
droops. A 3/4" drill bit in it jumps up about 1/16" when it enters a
center-drilled starting hole.

jsw

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On May 7, 2:02 am, "Bill Noble" wrote:
...
I guess I don't understand those flex collets with the rubber - is the
point
of the rubber to give a wide holding range or to allow some degree of
floating of the tool being held?
...

Rubberflex collets have thin tapered metal jaws like the ones in a
Darex Drill Doctor chuck, but embedded in rubber.

The Jacobs #36 is the least accurate of my tailstock chucks because it
droops. A 3/4" drill bit in it jumps up about 1/16" when it enters a
center-drilled starting hole.

jsw

Understand on the collets - the don't float. And, your comment on the #36
is exactly my issue - it annoys the heck out of me, which is why I'm looking
for a solution

thanks - today, I was rearranging tooling and low and behold I have a self
centering (floating) collet chuck thingie - it is for taps - it has a tap
collet (with the square bottom) and a 3/4 inch shank - But, I don't see a
convenient way to use it to hold anything except taps, and I only have the
one collet (1/4) for it - it doesn't look like it could hold anything much
larger. So, I moved it from its previous hiding place to a new hiding
place near the taps, so at least if I need it, I have some small chance
of finding it.

next step is to figure out which size ER collets I have - maybe
tomorrow.... Meanwhile, I am learning something from this thread - perhaps
some others are also.

I went out to the garage to see what collets I used with the Mill - it turns
out I have two holders, one that is NMTB to R8 and so I can use R8 collets,
and one that is this one
http://www.dealtime.com/xPO-Valenite...et-Holder-X634
which apparently uses TG-100 collets (I have a range of collets for it)
And, of course, I have 5C collets for the lathe
so, now to see what I can find.....

suggestions?

On 2010-05-08, Bill Noble wrote:

[ ... ]

thanks - today, I was rearranging tooling and low and behold I have a self
centering (floating) collet chuck thingie - it is for taps - it has a tap
collet (with the square bottom) and a 3/4 inch shank - But, I don't see a
convenient way to use it to hold anything except taps, and I only have the
one collet (1/4) for it - it doesn't look like it could hold anything much
larger. So, I moved it from its previous hiding place to a new hiding
place near the taps, so at least if I need it, I have some small chance of
finding it.

Which kind of tap collet? The one used on TapMatic tapping heads
uses a small version of the RubberFlex collet -- two sizes cover all the
taps which fit that size.

Or is this the kind where you have a Morse Taper 0 adaptor to
hold a tap by the square and the shank OD?

next step is to figure out which size ER collets I have - maybe tomorrow....
Meanwhile, I am learning something from this thread - perhaps some others
are also.

Measure the maximum outside diameter -- in millimeters -- to get
the ER-?? number (or close to it. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

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On 2010-05-08, Bill Noble wrote:

I went out to the garage to see what collets I used with the Mill - it turns
out I have two holders, one that is NMTB to R8 and so I can use R8 collets,
and one that is this one

Hmm ... I would expect that adaptor to consume a lot of the
space between the spindle and the table. Assuming that you mean the
spindle is NMTB 40 and the colle you wish to hold is R8.

http://www.dealtime.com/xPO-Valenite...et-Holder-X634
which apparently uses TG-100 collets (I have a range of collets for it)

Probably a better grip than the R8 collets. They have a
reputation for letting the endmill walk down into the workpiece (and
sometimes the table) under heavy cutting loads.

And, of course, I have 5C collets for the lathe
so, now to see what I can find.....

Good Luck,
DoN.

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"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2010-05-08, Bill Noble wrote:

[ ... ]

thanks - today, I was rearranging tooling and low and behold I have a
self
centering (floating) collet chuck thingie - it is for taps - it has a tap
collet (with the square bottom) and a 3/4 inch shank - But, I don't see a
convenient way to use it to hold anything except taps, and I only have
the
one collet (1/4) for it - it doesn't look like it could hold anything
much
larger. So, I moved it from its previous hiding place to a new hiding
place near the taps, so at least if I need it, I have some small chance
of
finding it.

Which kind of tap collet? The one used on TapMatic tapping heads
uses a small version of the RubberFlex collet -- two sizes cover all the
taps which fit that size.

Or is this the kind where you have a Morse Taper 0 adaptor to
hold a tap by the square and the shank OD?


The floating holder I have is W.M Zeigler Tool Co, Detroit, no numbers or
model info, 3/4 inch shank is 1.65 long, - the collet is unlike others I've
seen, steel, vaguely like a double angle collet, but with a square base so
it won't turn, and inside, it has a square section to grab the tap. I think
what I have is an early version of the 0-SA variant in the catalog that is
on-line here http://www.scribd.com/doc/7667023/F-...iegler-Catalog -
see page 27 for a good view of the collet - I guess I'll have to be on the
lookout for more collets too

On 2010-05-08, Bill Noble wrote:

The floating holder I have is W.M Zeigler Tool Co, Detroit, no numbers or
model info, 3/4 inch shank is 1.65 long, - the collet is unlike others I've
seen, steel, vaguely like a double angle collet, but with a square base so
it won't turn, and inside, it has a square section to grab the tap. I think
what I have is an early version of the 0-SA variant in the catalog that is
on-line here http://www.scribd.com/doc/7667023/F-...iegler-Catalog -
see page 27 for a good view of the collet - I guess I'll have to be on the
lookout for more collets too

O.K. Once I turned on enough things so it would let me *see*
the catalog. It wanted both JavaScript and Flash turned on to allow me
to see it.

First -- this seems to be overkill for your work, and looks as
though it is for powered spindles, not non-rotating tailstock spindles.

Second -- it corrects for lateral offset, but not for angular
errors such as your drooping tailstock ram. (Assuming that it *is
actually drooping.)

If it *is* drooping, it is wear in the bore in which the ram
moves, and it will droop more the more it is extended.

However, another likely problem is wear on the carriage, so the
whole ram is below center -- whether extended or not.

The fix for the second problem (which can be verified by a Blake
centering indicator or other ways which are less convenient) is to
determine how low it is, and to add shim stock between the tailstock and
the carriage along the parting line which allows for lateral offset.

Most serious lathe makers make the tailstock just a little
*above* center, so as it wears through its life, it will get better
before it starts getting worse.

The Blake is also convenient for tuning the tailstock back on
center horizontally, too.

Good Luck,
DoN.

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However, another likely problem is wear on the carriage, so the
whole ram is below center -- whether extended or not.

The fix for the second problem (which can be verified by a Blake
centering indicator or other ways which are less convenient) is to
determine how low it is, and to add shim stock between the tailstock and
the carriage along the parting line which allows for lateral offset.

Most serious lathe makers make the tailstock just a little
*above* center, so as it wears through its life, it will get better
before it starts getting worse.

The Blake is also convenient for tuning the tailstock back on
center horizontally, too.

Good Luck,
DoN.


Thanks Don - In my case, I know that it is the drill chuck, not the
tailstock - an MT drill or reamer put into the quill directly aligns
accurately (well, within a few thousandths), a drill blank held in a collet
aligns accurately also, as does a live center - but a drill rod or a reamer
held in the Jacob's chuck is misaligned. The reason I went down the path of
getting one of these floating holders in the first place was that I couldn't
see a practical way to hold a range of chucking reamers without a chuck, and
if chucks aren't accurate, then I need the float - did I go off track with
this reasoning?

On 2010-05-09, Bill Noble wrote:


However, another likely problem is wear on the carriage, so the
whole ram is below center -- whether extended or not.

[ ... ]

Thanks Don - In my case, I know that it is the drill chuck, not the
tailstock - an MT drill or reamer put into the quill directly aligns
accurately (well, within a few thousandths), a drill blank held in a collet
aligns accurately also, as does a live center - but a drill rod or a reamer
held in the Jacob's chuck is misaligned.

Hmm ... does the tailstock ram engage the tang, or can you
rotate the arbor (and the chuck with it) to any possible position?

You might see what the drill rod does with the Morse taper arbor
rotated 180 degrees.

Second -- it is possible (especially if you have an old chuck
and arbor) that the arbor has been bent by crash. When I get chucks
via eBay, even if the come on the right sized arbor, I buy a new arbor
from MSC -- either Jacobs brand, or Albrecht -- so I don't have to deal
with a bent or poorly made arbor.

Hmm ... also -- do you have a Morse taper gauge for that taper?
If so -- blue the arbor and trial fit it into the gauge to see whether
it is making full contact. It might have a ding which is causing it to
fit off center, and you can simply stone off the ding until you get full
contact around the arbor (except where you have stoned too deep, of
course. :-)

Usually, drill chucks are a lot better than the specs say,
especially the high end Jacobs and the Albrecht ones. Those specs say
that it won't be *worse* than this -- not that every one will be this
bad. :-)

Hmm ... also, how good are the jaws in the chuck? A drill
spinning in the chuck (e.g. trying to use a Silver & Demming 1" drill
bit without shank flats in a 1/2" chuck) can damage the jaws of the
chuck as well as the shank of the bit.

You can get rebuild kits from Jacobs (if a genuine Jacobs
chuck), and you can find instructions on the Jacobs web site if you have
never taken a chuck apart before. Before you start, you will need to
make two sleeves on your lathe -- one for pressing the chuck apart, and
the other for pressing it back together. Aluminum works fine for this,
and you need a different set for each size of chuck. You also need an
arbor press of some sort.

The reason I went down the path of
getting one of these floating holders in the first place was that I couldn't
see a practical way to hold a range of chucking reamers without a chuck, and
if chucks aren't accurate, then I need the float - did I go off track with
this reasoning?

I think that it is overkill in this case. Your consideration of
the ER collet chuck in the tailstock should work quite well --
especially since your other collets and such have tested good. You
don't need a standard drill chuck to hold a chucking reamer -- but you
*can* use one if that is what you have -- and the chuck and arbor are in
good condition. It is called "chucking" to distinguish it from the ones
with flats on the end for a tap wrench. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

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