Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Shamefully simple electricital question

the thing is probably not a transformer, it probably a current limiting
device - I've made such a thing with a low wattage bulb off the high side of
110 - a 1 watt bulb will limit current to 10 ma but will give a pesky
shock - the commercial units limit current perhaps in other ways to be super
safe. your choice how to proceed -

when you "took it apart" - what did you find inside?

"Steve B" wrote in message
...
Today, I found out my garden dog shocker wasn't working after coming home
and finding my new rescue dog full of manure, compost and mud. She got
into the fresh flower bed.

The wire shocker there apparently got wet and fried. I took it apart, let
it dry for hours, put it back together, and touched the terminals with no
shock. Outside of case says: 110v. AC in, .27amp, 60 hertz, 10 watts.
These Fi-Shocks are about $25 new. Where would I get a transformer like
this? When I looked at the transformer, it's marked 311-158 R2 10 2000.

How do I read this to buy another cheapie, and where?

Steve

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Today, I found out my garden dog shocker wasn't working after coming home
and finding my new rescue dog full of manure, compost and mud. She got into
the fresh flower bed.

The wire shocker there apparently got wet and fried. I took it apart, let
it dry for hours, put it back together, and touched the terminals with no
shock. Outside of case says: 110v. AC in, .27amp, 60 hertz, 10 watts.
These Fi-Shocks are about $25 new. Where would I get a transformer like
this? When I looked at the transformer, it's marked 311-158 R2 10 2000.

How do I read this to buy another cheapie, and where?

Steve


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Default Shamefully simple electricital question

On Sun, 2 May 2010 21:32:27 -0700, the renowned "Steve B"
wrote:

Today, I found out my garden dog shocker wasn't working after coming home
and finding my new rescue dog full of manure, compost and mud. She got into
the fresh flower bed.

The wire shocker there apparently got wet and fried. I took it apart, let
it dry for hours, put it back together, and touched the terminals with no
shock. Outside of case says: 110v. AC in, .27amp, 60 hertz, 10 watts.
These Fi-Shocks are about $25 new. Where would I get a transformer like
this? When I looked at the transformer, it's marked 311-158 R2 10 2000.


The first part is probably the part number, the 10 2000 the date it
was made.

How do I read this to buy another cheapie, and where?

Steve


These guys sell what appears to be it for $30!!
http://www.pasturefence.com/fishockparts.html

You're probably better off buying a new on for the $25 or whatever.
http://www.amazon.com/Flock-Shock-SS.../dp/B001JP7G2A

120:800VAC transformers are not common and safety is an issue.



Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
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Default Shamefully simple electricital question

On Mon, 03 May 2010 05:36:09 -0400, Spehro Pefhany
wrote:

On Sun, 2 May 2010 21:32:27 -0700, the renowned "Steve B"
wrote:

Today, I found out my garden dog shocker wasn't working after coming home
and finding my new rescue dog full of manure, compost and mud. She got into
the fresh flower bed.

The wire shocker there apparently got wet and fried. I took it apart, let
it dry for hours, put it back together, and touched the terminals with no
shock. Outside of case says: 110v. AC in, .27amp, 60 hertz, 10 watts.
These Fi-Shocks are about $25 new. Where would I get a transformer like
this? When I looked at the transformer, it's marked 311-158 R2 10 2000.


The first part is probably the part number, the 10 2000 the date it
was made.

How do I read this to buy another cheapie, and where?

Steve


These guys sell what appears to be it for $30!!
http://www.pasturefence.com/fishockparts.html

You're probably better off buying a new on for the $25 or whatever.
http://www.amazon.com/Flock-Shock-SS.../dp/B001JP7G2A

120:800VAC transformers are not common and safety is an issue.


p.s.

Just to expand on this safety thing a bit.. I have not looked inside
the continuous kind of electric fence energizer, but I'd expect to
find a special transformer designed to have a lot of leakage
inductance as well as proper mains isolation and step-up ratio (and
not much else). The consequence of that is that the short-circuit
current would be limited to a relatively safe value (relatively safe
for animals and relatively safe for the transformer's health). This is
not a regular transformer, I suspect.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com
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Default Shamefully simple electricital question

Steve B wrote:
Today, I found out my garden dog shocker wasn't working after coming home
and finding my new rescue dog full of manure, compost and mud. She got into
the fresh flower bed.

The wire shocker there apparently got wet and fried. I took it apart, let
it dry for hours, put it back together, and touched the terminals with no
shock. Outside of case says: 110v. AC in, .27amp, 60 hertz, 10 watts.
These Fi-Shocks are about $25 new. Where would I get a transformer like
this? When I looked at the transformer, it's marked 311-158 R2 10 2000.

How do I read this to buy another cheapie, and where?


Not enough info. I'd see if you couldn't find a decent equivalent at a
farm store, one that'll last for a while.

Like Spehro said, these are specialty items, not bog-common transformers.

We just kennel our dogs up when we're not around -- they don't seem to
mind, as long as we make sure they know they're not in trouble going in,
and that we love them when we get back and take them out (and it's never
for more than half a day).

--
Tim Wescott
Control system and signal processing consulting
www.wescottdesign.com


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"Bill Noble" wrote in message
...
the thing is probably not a transformer, it probably a current limiting
device - I've made such a thing with a low wattage bulb off the high side
of 110 - a 1 watt bulb will limit current to 10 ma but will give a pesky
shock - the commercial units limit current perhaps in other ways to be
super safe. your choice how to proceed -

when you "took it apart" - what did you find inside?


Two wires to a device that looked like a 2" x 3" metal rectangle with a hole
in the middle. In the hole are two 1.25" diameter coils that look like they
are wound of rough brown paper, then a clear sealant. Between the coils are
two little boxes the size of your fingernail, but are sealed in with clear
goop. Two wires in, two wires out.

Steve

visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com watch for the book

A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult.


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I've looked inside a number of fence chargers and not one of them was
just a transformer. They all had some sort of timed interruption,
probably to give an inductive kick (I never actually analyzed a circuit).

Bob
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On Mon, 03 May 2010 13:48:22 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:


I've looked inside a number of fence chargers and not one of them was
just a transformer. They all had some sort of timed interruption,
probably to give an inductive kick (I never actually analyzed a circuit).

Bob


That describes the ones I've seen-- and the one I built as a kid using
an automotive ignition coil. But this type specifically says it's
continuous (and sinusoidal output, see below).

Assuming it's the SS-600:-

This Fi-Shock™ Poultry Charger for electric fences is electric powered
and features continuous AC output. Effective for adult chickens and
other large birds, it has a 1 mile range under ideal conditions and is
covered by a 1 year limited warranty.

Voltage:

Input Voltage: 110-120 VAC, 60 Hz, .027 A, 10 W
Output Voltage: 800 VAC +/- 20% open circuit voltage

The manual further says it's 8mA +/-2mA short-circuit current.
http://www.fishock.com/resource/uplo...structions.pdf


Here is an intermittent version that just cycles the power to the
transformer using a 555 timer and a triac. It's publically there in
all the gory detail because it allegedly killed a 4-year-old boy.

http://www.cpsc.gov/library/foia/foi...e/fidoshc3.pdf

The transformer is listed as made by the manufacturer (Fi-Shock). Not
surprising, since it would be much of the cost. Note the presence of a
magnetic shunt to increase the leakage inductance (page 13).


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On Mon, 03 May 2010 13:48:22 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:


I've looked inside a number of fence chargers and not one of them was
just a transformer. They all had some sort of timed interruption,
probably to give an inductive kick (I never actually analyzed a circuit).

Bob


Most fence chargers are not continuious output..but timed cycles. .5
seconds on, .5 seconds off...etc etc.

This helps keep smaller critters from muscular contraction keeping the
little critter "stuck" to the fence and suffocating when their lungs
freeze up.

Larger livestock fences can be full time, part time, programmable etc
etc.

Lots of them around here to keep stock from going through the fence.

Gunner

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost
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Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

Lots of them around here to keep stock from going through the fence.


The majority of the "Bull Zappers" around here aren't merely pulsed
on/off, but give short (say 10ms) "zaps" of 5KV followed by longer delays
-- about two to three a second, or so.

Their primary uses here are to keep deer OUT of areas, and to keep cattle
from leaning on the fences; not really to keep the cattle IN, per se, but
to keep their continous desire to eat through the fence on the "greener
grass" down, so they don't damage the lines.

A ****ed-off bull can clear a 5' fence easily, anyway, so it won't do
much to keep them in the pasture if they want out.

Because of the constant maintenance work repairing the live runs, it's
about the same cost to just kill a 4' apron around the outside of the
fence with a soil sterilant. The former needs to be fixed about twice a
month at low cost (but labor and trips out), the latter - with sterilants
- has to re-done about once a year at significant cost for the chemicals,
but hardly any labor per rod of fence line.

I don't have either method employed. I've only got about 80 rod of fence
to maintain, so I just mow a 10' stripe outside the line right down to
scalped every time I mow the front yard. Ends up working just as well.
If there's nothing attractive for them to reach for, they stay off the
wire.

LLoyd


LLoyd
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