Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Pictures of a double hook that I welded together

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...ble-Grab-Hook/

I welded this double hook from two Harbor Freight grab hooks and a
1/4" steel plate. The purpose of it is to let me use arbitrary lengths
of chain, single and two ends, when lifting stuff, as well as grab to
access lifting eyes with just a piece of chain (see last
picture). Welding was done with 1/8" E7018 electrodes.

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In article ,
Ignoramus9191 wrote:

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...ble-Grab-Hook/

I welded this double hook from two Harbor Freight grab hooks and a
1/4" steel plate. The purpose of it is to let me use arbitrary lengths
of chain, single and two ends, when lifting stuff, as well as grab to
access lifting eyes with just a piece of chain (see last
picture). Welding was done with 1/8" E7018 electrodes.


While you will no doubt get lots of advice on welding and redoing the heat
treatment of the hooks (if HF hooks are in fact heat treated), don't forget to
proof test this to four times the intended max load.

Joe Gwinn
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Default Pictures of a double hook that I welded together

On 2010-05-01, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus9191 wrote:

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...ble-Grab-Hook/

I welded this double hook from two Harbor Freight grab hooks and a
1/4" steel plate. The purpose of it is to let me use arbitrary lengths
of chain, single and two ends, when lifting stuff, as well as grab to
access lifting eyes with just a piece of chain (see last
picture). Welding was done with 1/8" E7018 electrodes.


While you will no doubt get lots of advice on welding and redoing the heat
treatment of the hooks (if HF hooks are in fact heat treated), don't forget to
proof test this to four times the intended max load.


I just proof tested it in a 12 ton arbor press. See my another
post. This was actually a good idea Joe.

i
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Default Pictures of a double hook that I welded together

Ignoramus9191 wrote:

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...ble-Grab-Hook/

I welded this double hook from two Harbor Freight grab hooks and a
1/4" steel plate. The purpose of it is to let me use arbitrary lengths
of chain, single and two ends, when lifting stuff, as well as grab to
access lifting eyes with just a piece of chain (see last
picture). Welding was done with 1/8" E7018 electrodes.



Boy did you catch hell. I assume you know to never get under a lift. Nuff said.

Wes
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Default Pictures of a double hook that I welded together


"Wes" wrote in message
...
Ignoramus9191 wrote:

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...ble-Grab-Hook/

I welded this double hook from two Harbor Freight grab hooks and a
1/4" steel plate. The purpose of it is to let me use arbitrary lengths
of chain, single and two ends, when lifting stuff, as well as grab to
access lifting eyes with just a piece of chain (see last
picture). Welding was done with 1/8" E7018 electrodes.



Boy did you catch hell. I assume you know to never get under a lift.
Nuff said.

Wes


And here is a reminder why not
http://www.break.com/index/cable-fai...et-engine.html



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Default Pictures of a double hook that I welded together


"Wes" wrote in message
...
Ignoramus9191 wrote:

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...ble-Grab-Hook/

I welded this double hook from two Harbor Freight grab hooks and a
1/4" steel plate. The purpose of it is to let me use arbitrary lengths
of chain, single and two ends, when lifting stuff, as well as grab to
access lifting eyes with just a piece of chain (see last
picture). Welding was done with 1/8" E7018 electrodes.



Boy did you catch hell. I assume you know to never get under a lift.
Nuff said.

Wes


I have seen many failed lifting hooks and accessories, and can think of at
least half a dozen due to welding. The loads I have seen dropped due to bad
welding range from about one tonne to 110 tonnes.

It looks like the welded hooks were G30 hook they may be more weldeable than
G80 lifting gear.
If you want to weld hooks to a plate, weldable hooks are readily available
for the purpose, why not simply use the right item.

I can think of several people who never worked again as a result of poor
lifting practices. If you are hand slinging you are too close for comfort if
the chain or hook fails.


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Default Pictures of a double hook that I welded together

"anorton" wrote:

Boy did you catch hell. I assume you know to never get under a lift.
Nuff said.

Wes


And here is a reminder why not
http://www.break.com/index/cable-fai...et-engine.html



We have a service company inspect our hoists every year. So far no incidents. Still, I
eyeball the situation before I perform a lift. Stuff happens.

I *always* operate on the concept that it is likely to fail. If the load needs
stabilizing, I use a tag line so I can stay away from the thing in case it falls. I'm
very squishy.

As far as Iggy, I'm fairly confident he understands physical properties well enough to
know if his setup is safe for what he is doing. If nothing else we have reinforced that
you don't get into the squish zone no matter how substantial your lifting setup appears to
be.


Wes




Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
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Default Pictures of a double hook that I welded together

On 2010-05-01, Wes wrote:
"anorton" wrote:

Boy did you catch hell. I assume you know to never get under a lift.
Nuff said.

Wes


And here is a reminder why not
http://www.break.com/index/cable-fai...et-engine.html



We have a service company inspect our hoists every year. So far no incidents. Still, I
eyeball the situation before I perform a lift. Stuff happens.

I *always* operate on the concept that it is likely to fail. If the load needs
stabilizing, I use a tag line so I can stay away from the thing in case it falls. I'm
very squishy.

As far as Iggy, I'm fairly confident he understands physical properties well enough to
know if his setup is safe for what he is doing. If nothing else we have reinforced that
you don't get into the squish zone no matter how substantial your lifting setup appears to
be.


It is safe because what I am doing is far below the ultimate strength
of this assembly. Thanks Wes.

i

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Default Pictures of a double hook that I welded together

On 2010-05-01, ddeu wrote:
I have seen many failed lifting hooks and accessories, and can think of at
least half a dozen due to welding. The loads I have seen dropped due to bad
welding range from about one tonne to 110 tonnes.

It looks like the welded hooks were G30 hook they may be more weldeable than
G80 lifting gear.


They were G30 hooks.

i
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Default Pictures of a double hook that I welded together

In article ,
Ignoramus26879 wrote:

On 2010-05-01, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus9191 wrote:

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...ble-Grab-Hook/

I welded this double hook from two Harbor Freight grab hooks and a
1/4" steel plate. The purpose of it is to let me use arbitrary lengths
of chain, single and two ends, when lifting stuff, as well as grab to
access lifting eyes with just a piece of chain (see last
picture). Welding was done with 1/8" E7018 electrodes.


While you will no doubt get lots of advice on welding and redoing the heat
treatment of the hooks (if HF hooks are in fact heat treated), don't forget
to
proof test this to four times the intended max load.


I just proof tested it in a 12 ton arbor press. See my another
post. This was actually a good idea Joe.


I don't quite visualize how you used the arbor press, but another poster
questioned if the 0.250" plate was thick enough, and the hook loop looked a bit
thin to my eye.

I actually have no idea if the plate and loop are strong enough, but the most
reliable test is to lift something using this fixture. Do this twice, with a
fully asymmetrical load - full test load on the left hook, then full test load
on the right hook.

You said that the max intended is 1000#, so the proof test load is 4000#.

This test is cruel. The point is to break it in test, if it's going to break at
all.

Joe Gwinn


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Default Pictures of a double hook that I welded together

Wes wrote:
wrote:

Boy did you catch hell. I assume you know to never get under a lift.
Nuff said.

Wes


And here is a reminder why not
http://www.break.com/index/cable-fai...et-engine.html



We have a service company inspect our hoists every year. So far no incidents. Still, I
eyeball the situation before I perform a lift. Stuff happens.

I *always* operate on the concept that it is likely to fail. If the load needs
stabilizing, I use a tag line so I can stay away from the thing in case it falls. I'm
very squishy.

As far as Iggy, I'm fairly confident he understands physical properties well enough to
know if his setup is safe for what he is doing. If nothing else we have reinforced that
you don't get into the squish zone no matter how substantial your lifting setup appears to
be.


Wes




Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller



This site pretty well defines overhead lifting and the use of the proper
equipment to do the job.

http://www.jrclancy.com/Downloads/TrimChains-ESG.pdf


John
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Default Pictures of a double hook that I welded together

On 2010-05-01, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus26879 wrote:

On 2010-05-01, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus9191 wrote:

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...ble-Grab-Hook/

I welded this double hook from two Harbor Freight grab hooks and a
1/4" steel plate. The purpose of it is to let me use arbitrary lengths
of chain, single and two ends, when lifting stuff, as well as grab to
access lifting eyes with just a piece of chain (see last
picture). Welding was done with 1/8" E7018 electrodes.

While you will no doubt get lots of advice on welding and redoing the heat
treatment of the hooks (if HF hooks are in fact heat treated), don't forget
to
proof test this to four times the intended max load.


I just proof tested it in a 12 ton arbor press. See my another
post. This was actually a good idea Joe.


I don't quite visualize how you used the arbor press, but another poster
questioned if the 0.250" plate was thick enough, and the hook loop looked a bit
thin to my eye.

I actually have no idea if the plate and loop are strong enough, but the most
reliable test is to lift something using this fixture. Do this twice, with a
fully asymmetrical load - full test load on the left hook, then full test load
on the right hook.

You said that the max intended is 1000#, so the proof test load is 4000#.

This test is cruel. The point is to break it in test, if it's going to break at
all.

Joe Gwinn


I can try my my engine hoist (shop crane), it goes up to 2 tons.

i
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In article ,
Ignoramus26879 wrote:

On 2010-05-01, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus26879 wrote:

On 2010-05-01, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus9191 wrote:

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...ble-Grab-Hook/

I welded this double hook from two Harbor Freight grab hooks and a
1/4" steel plate. The purpose of it is to let me use arbitrary lengths
of chain, single and two ends, when lifting stuff, as well as grab to
access lifting eyes with just a piece of chain (see last
picture). Welding was done with 1/8" E7018 electrodes.

While you will no doubt get lots of advice on welding and redoing the
heat
treatment of the hooks (if HF hooks are in fact heat treated), don't
forget to
proof test this to four times the intended max load.

I just proof tested it in a 12 ton arbor press. See my another
post. This was actually a good idea Joe.


I don't quite visualize how you used the arbor press, but another poster
questioned if the 0.250" plate was thick enough, and the hook loop looked a
bit thin to my eye.

I actually have no idea if the plate and loop are strong enough, but the most
reliable test is to lift something using this fixture. Do this twice, with
a fully asymmetrical load - full test load on the left hook, then full test
load on the right hook.

You said that the max intended is 1000#, so the proof test load is 4000#.

This test is cruel. The point is to break it in test, if it's going to
break at all.

Joe Gwinn


I can try my my engine hoist (shop crane), it goes up to 2 tons.


How will you verify that the load is in fact 4000#?

This 4000# proof test should be adequate, and will shut off all (well most) of
the commentary about the inadvisability of welding such hooks. Now, I agree
with much of the spirit of the technical commentary, but if you will not sell
these fixtures, a real proof test (described above) should be adequate. And you
know the name of the likely victim if it is not.

Joe Gwinn
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Default Pictures of a double hook that I welded together

On Sat, 01 May 2010 10:06:38 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus26879
scrawled the following:

On 2010-05-01, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus9191 wrote:

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...ble-Grab-Hook/

I welded this double hook from two Harbor Freight grab hooks and a
1/4" steel plate. The purpose of it is to let me use arbitrary lengths
of chain, single and two ends, when lifting stuff, as well as grab to
access lifting eyes with just a piece of chain (see last
picture). Welding was done with 1/8" E7018 electrodes.


While you will no doubt get lots of advice on welding and redoing the heat
treatment of the hooks (if HF hooks are in fact heat treated), don't forget to
proof test this to four times the intended max load.


I just proof tested it in a 12 ton arbor press. See my another
post. This was actually a good idea Joe.


You _pulled_ on it in a _press_? Bar through the eye over the jack
backstop, chain under the ram fastened through the two hooks, I'm
guessing?

I'd think the eye would be by far the weakest link. Weld some 1/4" rod
around the top, eh? I'm sure you already know enough to not get
-under- anything lifted with it.

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist
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Default Pictures of a double hook that I welded together

On 2010-05-02, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 01 May 2010 10:06:38 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus26879
scrawled the following:

On 2010-05-01, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus9191 wrote:

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...ble-Grab-Hook/

I welded this double hook from two Harbor Freight grab hooks and a
1/4" steel plate. The purpose of it is to let me use arbitrary lengths
of chain, single and two ends, when lifting stuff, as well as grab to
access lifting eyes with just a piece of chain (see last
picture). Welding was done with 1/8" E7018 electrodes.

While you will no doubt get lots of advice on welding and redoing the heat
treatment of the hooks (if HF hooks are in fact heat treated), don't forget to
proof test this to four times the intended max load.


I just proof tested it in a 12 ton arbor press. See my another
post. This was actually a good idea Joe.


You _pulled_ on it in a _press_? Bar through the eye over the jack
backstop, chain under the ram fastened through the two hooks, I'm
guessing?

I'd think the eye would be by far the weakest link. Weld some 1/4" rod
around the top, eh? I'm sure you already know enough to not get
-under- anything lifted with it.


Something will always be the weakest link. This eye has a 1/4 of a
square inch in the smallest cross section. At 50000 PSI, it works out
to 10,000 lbs. I am not losing my sleep over it.

i

i


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On Sat, 1 May 2010 14:04:57 -0700, the infamous "anorton"
scrawled the following:


"Wes" wrote in message
...
Ignoramus9191 wrote:

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...ble-Grab-Hook/

I welded this double hook from two Harbor Freight grab hooks and a
1/4" steel plate. The purpose of it is to let me use arbitrary lengths
of chain, single and two ends, when lifting stuff, as well as grab to
access lifting eyes with just a piece of chain (see last
picture). Welding was done with 1/8" E7018 electrodes.



Boy did you catch hell. I assume you know to never get under a lift.
Nuff said.

Wes


And here is a reminder why not
http://www.break.com/index/cable-fai...et-engine.html


That one worker is sure lucky he bailed when he did. I wonder if he
heard the twang of a cable wire starting to detune...


--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist
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In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

I'd think the eye would be by far the weakest link. Weld some 1/4" rod
around the top, eh? I'm sure you already know enough to not get
-under- anything lifted with it.


Unofficial motto of Crane Component Company:

We stand behind our work, but not under it -- and neither should you.
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Nice work. Looks handy.
JR
Dweller in the cellar


On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 20:57:16 -0500, Ignoramus9191
wrote:

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...ble-Grab-Hook/

I welded this double hook from two Harbor Freight grab hooks and a
1/4" steel plate. The purpose of it is to let me use arbitrary lengths
of chain, single and two ends, when lifting stuff, as well as grab to
access lifting eyes with just a piece of chain (see last
picture). Welding was done with 1/8" E7018 electrodes.

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Default Pictures of a double hook that I welded together

In article ,
Ignoramus26879 wrote:

On 2010-05-02, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 01 May 2010 10:06:38 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus26879
scrawled the following:

On 2010-05-01, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus9191 wrote:

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...ble-Grab-Hook/

I welded this double hook from two Harbor Freight grab hooks and a
1/4" steel plate. The purpose of it is to let me use arbitrary lengths
of chain, single and two ends, when lifting stuff, as well as grab to
access lifting eyes with just a piece of chain (see last
picture). Welding was done with 1/8" E7018 electrodes.

While you will no doubt get lots of advice on welding and redoing the
heat
treatment of the hooks (if HF hooks are in fact heat treated), don't
forget to
proof test this to four times the intended max load.

I just proof tested it in a 12 ton arbor press. See my another
post. This was actually a good idea Joe.


You _pulled_ on it in a _press_? Bar through the eye over the jack
backstop, chain under the ram fastened through the two hooks, I'm
guessing?

I'd think the eye would be by far the weakest link. Weld some 1/4" rod
around the top, eh? I'm sure you already know enough to not get
-under- anything lifted with it.


Something will always be the weakest link. This eye has a 1/4 of a
square inch in the smallest cross section. At 50000 PSI, it works out
to 10,000 lbs. I am not losing my sleep over it.


If the eye loop is 1/4" by 1/4" square, that's (0.25)(0.25)= 0.0625 square
inches, or 1/16 of a square inch. At 50,000 psi, that would be 50000/16= 3,125
pounds, which is a bit too close for comfort, for lots of reasons. Not least of
which the steel in hot rolled plate may not always be that good. And the eye
loop geometry may not be perfect. And so on.

Joe Gwinn
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On 2010-05-02, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus26879 wrote:

On 2010-05-02, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 01 May 2010 10:06:38 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus26879
scrawled the following:

On 2010-05-01, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus9191 wrote:

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...ble-Grab-Hook/

I welded this double hook from two Harbor Freight grab hooks and a
1/4" steel plate. The purpose of it is to let me use arbitrary lengths
of chain, single and two ends, when lifting stuff, as well as grab to
access lifting eyes with just a piece of chain (see last
picture). Welding was done with 1/8" E7018 electrodes.

While you will no doubt get lots of advice on welding and redoing the
heat
treatment of the hooks (if HF hooks are in fact heat treated), don't
forget to
proof test this to four times the intended max load.

I just proof tested it in a 12 ton arbor press. See my another
post. This was actually a good idea Joe.

You _pulled_ on it in a _press_? Bar through the eye over the jack
backstop, chain under the ram fastened through the two hooks, I'm
guessing?

I'd think the eye would be by far the weakest link. Weld some 1/4" rod
around the top, eh? I'm sure you already know enough to not get
-under- anything lifted with it.


Something will always be the weakest link. This eye has a 1/4 of a
square inch in the smallest cross section. At 50000 PSI, it works out
to 10,000 lbs. I am not losing my sleep over it.


If the eye loop is 1/4" by 1/4" square, that's (0.25)(0.25)= 0.0625 square
inches, or 1/16 of a square inch.


No, it is exactly as I said, 1/4 of a square inch. 0.25 square
inch. Two 1/2x1/4 areas in the smallest cross section.

At 50,000 psi, that would be 50000/16= 3,125
pounds, which is a bit too close for comfort, for lots of reasons. Not least of
which the steel in hot rolled plate may not always be that good. And the eye
loop geometry may not be perfect. And so on.



i


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In article ,
Ignoramus2896 wrote:

On 2010-05-02, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus26879 wrote:

On 2010-05-02, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 01 May 2010 10:06:38 -0500, the infamous Ignoramus26879
scrawled the following:

On 2010-05-01, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus9191 wrote:

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Weld...ble-Grab-Hook/

I welded this double hook from two Harbor Freight grab hooks and a
1/4" steel plate. The purpose of it is to let me use arbitrary
lengths
of chain, single and two ends, when lifting stuff, as well as grab to
access lifting eyes with just a piece of chain (see last
picture). Welding was done with 1/8" E7018 electrodes.

While you will no doubt get lots of advice on welding and redoing the
heat
treatment of the hooks (if HF hooks are in fact heat treated), don't
forget to
proof test this to four times the intended max load.

I just proof tested it in a 12 ton arbor press. See my another
post. This was actually a good idea Joe.

You _pulled_ on it in a _press_? Bar through the eye over the jack
backstop, chain under the ram fastened through the two hooks, I'm
guessing?

I'd think the eye would be by far the weakest link. Weld some 1/4" rod
around the top, eh? I'm sure you already know enough to not get
-under- anything lifted with it.


Something will always be the weakest link. This eye has a 1/4 of a
square inch in the smallest cross section. At 50000 PSI, it works out
to 10,000 lbs. I am not losing my sleep over it.


If the eye loop is 1/4" by 1/4" square, that's (0.25)(0.25)= 0.0625 square
inches, or 1/16 of a square inch.


No, it is exactly as I said, 1/4 of a square inch. 0.25 square
inch. Two 1/2x1/4 areas in the smallest cross section.


Ahh. That's better.

Joe Gwinn
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