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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
As I understand things, there is a blowout preventer on the sea bottom. How does that device work? Is the presence of 5000 feet of well casing sticking out of the preventer and crumpled all over the floor of the gulf capable of keeping the pressures and flows regulated enough that the BOP thinks everything is OK? What would be the method of converting the floating drill rig activities into some kind of permanent production facility? |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
Stuart Wheaton wrote:
As I understand things, there is a blowout preventer on the sea bottom. How does that device work? http://www.glossary.oilfield.slb.com...age.cfm?ID=300 -- John R. Carroll |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
John R. Carroll wrote:
Stuart Wheaton wrote: As I understand things, there is a blowout preventer on the sea bottom. How does that device work? http://www.glossary.oilfield.slb.com...age.cfm?ID=300 Yeah, I've found pictures. I was wondering how it works. Is it supposed to operate off water pressure? Or by diverting the pressure in the well bore... What actually makes the rams push in and seal the well bore? |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
Stuart Wheaton wrote:
John R. Carroll wrote: Stuart Wheaton wrote: As I understand things, there is a blowout preventer on the sea bottom. How does that device work? http://www.glossary.oilfield.slb.com...age.cfm?ID=300 Yeah, I've found pictures. I was wondering how it works. Is it supposed to operate off water pressure? Or by diverting the pressure in the well bore... What actually makes the rams push in and seal the well bore? Hydraulic Rams. -- John R. Carroll |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
Stuart Wheaton wrote:
John R. Carroll wrote: Stuart Wheaton wrote: As I understand things, there is a blowout preventer on the sea bottom. How does that device work? http://www.glossary.oilfield.slb.com...age.cfm?ID=300 Yeah, I've found pictures. I was wondering how it works. Is it supposed to operate off water pressure? Or by diverting the pressure in the well bore... What actually makes the rams push in and seal the well bore? http://www.blowout-preventers.com/ -- John R. Carroll |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
Ok - here goes some of what I know.
I Think that was a drill rig - floating but had anchors into the bottom! It might have more than one drill stem working. Likely only one. They were talking about underwater robotics turning off the flow from T's. A T is normally put on post drilling. Preventer are for drilling. So it would sound as if drilling was completed and the hole was being changed over from drilling to production. T's hook up to pipes the pipes run to a production rig. Think umbrella - ribs are pipes to the production rig in the middle. A larger pipeline is routed to the mainland from the production rig. Underwater T's are used like faucet knobs. Turn on this or off that. Companies are in business to put on and others to play with them. It sounds like a coupling that was used blew or a T itself blew. That deep, you have to have robots to look and see and to do anything. They don't sit on the bottom and are brought out from the mainland. Not being an insider (I have friends in the business and such) I don't have any first hand on this. It might be the pressure was far in excess of what was expected at that site. The T might have burst. If so - then another has to be brought out and sent down by robot... What I want to know is why the Coast Guard waited around and did so little - and why did it take a 1 hour until disaster - to do an all out... The cargo planes dropping solvents - where are they - why not burns - why not containment or more of it... Something stinks on this - I suspect the far left let this go proving to the press that off shore wells can't be put near Santa Barbara or off the East coast or Florida. This long delay speaks volumes! Martin Stuart Wheaton wrote: As I understand things, there is a blowout preventer on the sea bottom. How does that device work? Is the presence of 5000 feet of well casing sticking out of the preventer and crumpled all over the floor of the gulf capable of keeping the pressures and flows regulated enough that the BOP thinks everything is OK? What would be the method of converting the floating drill rig activities into some kind of permanent production facility? |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
On Apr 30, 9:21*pm, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote: Ok - here goes some of what I know. I Think that was a drill rig - floating but had anchors into the bottom!-CORRECT, A SEMI-SUBMERSIBLE RIG, THAT WAS FLOATED TO THE SITE, THEN HAD IT'S BALLAST TANKS FILLED WITH WATER TO LOWER IT IN THE WATER. eIGHT ANCHORS AND EIGHT THRUSTERS HELD IT IN THE DESIRED LOCATION USING GPS It might have more than one drill stem working. *Likely only one. They were talking about underwater robotics turning off the flow from T's ROVS ARE CAPABLE OF OPERATING THE CONTROLS FOR THE BOP LOCALLY. tHEY MAY EVEN BE ABLE TO HOOK UP HYDRAULIC LINES FROM A NEW HYDRAULIC ACCUMILATOR TO OPERATE THE BOP SHOULD THE LINES FROM THE RIG BE DAMAGED A T is normally put on post drilling. *Preventer are for drilling.CORRECT. tHIS RIG WAS FINISHED DRILLING AND WAS IN THE PROCESS OF CEMENTING THE WELL IN PREP TO A PRODUCING WELL So it would sound as if drilling was completed and the hole was being changed over from drilling to production. *T's hook up to pipes the pipes run to a production rig. *Think umbrella - ribs are pipes to the production rig in the middle. *A larger pipeline is routed to the mainland from the production rig. Underwater T's are used like faucet knobs. *Turn on this or off that. Companies are in business to put on and others to play with them. It sounds like a coupling that was used blew or a T itself blew. That deep, you have to have robots to look and see and to do anything. They don't sit on the bottom and are brought out from the mainland. Not being an insider (I have friends in the business and such) I don't have any first hand on this. *It might be the pressure was far in excess of what was expected at that site. *The T might have burst. If so - then another has to be brought out and sent down by robot... What I want to know is why the Coast Guard waited around and did so little - and why did it take a 1 hour until disaster - to do an all out.... The cargo planes dropping solvents - where are they - why not burns - why not containment or more of it... * Something stinks on this - I suspect the far left let this go proving to the press that off shore wells can't be put near Santa Barbara or off the East coast or Florida. This long delay speaks volumes! Martin BOPS ARE DESIGNED TO EITHER SEAL AROUND THE DRILL PIPE TO CLOSE THE ANNULUS OR TO PINCH THE DRILLPIPE CLOSED AND SEVER THE PIPE ABOVE THE RAM. THEY ARE POWERED BY HIGH PRESSURE HYDRAULIC SYSTEM WHICH MAY BE LOCATED ON THE RIG OR ON THE BOP RACK AT THE SEA FLOOR. LOOKS LIKE, FOR SOME REASON, THESE BOP RAMS DID NOT SEAL. THEY HAVE RUBBER ELEMENTS THAT WILL QUICKLY BE EAT OUT IF ANY FLOW IS ALLOWED THROUGH THEM. ONCE EATEN OUT, YOU'RE SCREWED. PINCHING OFF THE DRILLPIPE IS LAST RESORT. ONCE THE RIG EXPLODED THERE MAY HAVE BEEN NO WAY TO OPERATE THE BOP FROM ANYWHERE BUT THE SEAFLOOR. IT IS UNLIKELY ANYONE WILL KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED UNTIL THEY ARE ABLE TO BRING THE BOP TO THE SURFACE. UNTIL THEN EVERYTHING IS SPECULATION SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS BUT THAT WAS THE EASIEST WAY FOR ME TO ADD TO MARTIN'S POST |
#8
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
Gerry wrote:
On Apr 30, 9:21 pm, "Martin H. Eastburn" wrote: Ok - here goes some of what I know. I Think that was a drill rig - floating but had anchors into the bottom!-CORRECT, A SEMI-SUBMERSIBLE RIG, THAT WAS FLOATED TO THE SITE, THEN HAD IT'S BALLAST TANKS FILLED WITH WATER TO LOWER IT IN THE WATER. eIGHT ANCHORS AND EIGHT THRUSTERS HELD IT IN THE DESIRED LOCATION USING GPS It might have more than one drill stem working. Likely only one. They were talking about underwater robotics turning off the flow from T's ROVS ARE CAPABLE OF OPERATING THE CONTROLS FOR THE BOP LOCALLY. tHEY MAY EVEN BE ABLE TO HOOK UP HYDRAULIC LINES FROM A NEW HYDRAULIC ACCUMILATOR TO OPERATE THE BOP SHOULD THE LINES FROM THE RIG BE DAMAGED A T is normally put on post drilling. Preventer are for drilling.CORRECT. tHIS RIG WAS FINISHED DRILLING AND WAS IN THE PROCESS OF CEMENTING THE WELL IN PREP TO A PRODUCING WELL So it would sound as if drilling was completed and the hole was being changed over from drilling to production. T's hook up to pipes the pipes run to a production rig. Think umbrella - ribs are pipes to the production rig in the middle. A larger pipeline is routed to the mainland from the production rig. Underwater T's are used like faucet knobs. Turn on this or off that. Companies are in business to put on and others to play with them. It sounds like a coupling that was used blew or a T itself blew. That deep, you have to have robots to look and see and to do anything. They don't sit on the bottom and are brought out from the mainland. Not being an insider (I have friends in the business and such) I don't have any first hand on this. It might be the pressure was far in excess of what was expected at that site. The T might have burst. If so - then another has to be brought out and sent down by robot... What I want to know is why the Coast Guard waited around and did so little - and why did it take a 1 hour until disaster - to do an all out... The cargo planes dropping solvents - where are they - why not burns - why not containment or more of it... Something stinks on this - I suspect the far left let this go proving to the press that off shore wells can't be put near Santa Barbara or off the East coast or Florida. This long delay speaks volumes! Martin BOPS ARE DESIGNED TO EITHER SEAL AROUND THE DRILL PIPE TO CLOSE THE ANNULUS OR TO PINCH THE DRILLPIPE CLOSED AND SEVER THE PIPE ABOVE THE RAM. THEY ARE POWERED BY HIGH PRESSURE HYDRAULIC SYSTEM WHICH MAY BE LOCATED ON THE RIG OR ON THE BOP RACK AT THE SEA FLOOR. LOOKS LIKE, FOR SOME REASON, THESE BOP RAMS DID NOT SEAL. THEY HAVE RUBBER ELEMENTS THAT WILL QUICKLY BE EAT OUT IF ANY FLOW IS ALLOWED THROUGH THEM. ONCE EATEN OUT, YOU'RE SCREWED. PINCHING OFF THE DRILLPIPE IS LAST RESORT. ONCE THE RIG EXPLODED THERE MAY HAVE BEEN NO WAY TO OPERATE THE BOP FROM ANYWHERE BUT THE SEAFLOOR. IT IS UNLIKELY ANYONE WILL KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED UNTIL THEY ARE ABLE TO BRING THE BOP TO THE SURFACE. UNTIL THEN EVERYTHING IS SPECULATION SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS BUT THAT WAS THE EASIEST WAY FOR ME TO ADD TO MARTIN'S POST Add this. BP says they had tested the BOP stack 10 days before the accident. -- John R. Carroll |
#9
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message ... The cargo planes dropping solvents - where are they - why not burns - why not containment or more of it... Something stinks on this - I suspect the far left let this go proving to the press that off shore wells can't be put near Santa Barbara or off the East coast or Florida. This long delay speaks volumes! Martin that was my thought after i saw cliff's links to youtube parodies of palin, the far left planted a operative on the rig and sabotaged it to embarrass the "drill baby drill" crowd. kinda like how bush and cheney coordinated events of 9/11. ( :-) ) b.w. |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
On Fri, 30 Apr 2010 21:28:23 -0400, Stuart Wheaton
wrote: As I understand things, there is a blowout preventer on the sea bottom. How does that device work? Is the presence of 5000 feet of well casing sticking out of the preventer and crumpled all over the floor of the gulf capable of keeping the pressures and flows regulated enough that the BOP thinks everything is OK? What would be the method of converting the floating drill rig activities into some kind of permanent production facility? There is normally a "BOP" (Blow Out Protector) stack. Depending on where the drilling program is there would normally be at least two hydraulic operated rams, one to close an open hole and a second to shear the drill pipe and close the hole with pipe in the hole. There is sometimes a third ram that closes around the drill pipe. If casing has been run there will be a "bag" what closes using an annular donut type diaphragm to close the hole. The report I read, written shortly after the rig sank, said that they had just completed cementing (pumping cement down the hole to seal a casing string in place) and were moving off the hole and would return to the hole at a later time. This would mean that the BOP stack was in place at the well head (at the sea bed) and there was an indication at the surface that the rams were closed. John B. Slocomb (johnbslocombatgmaildotcom) |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
What is worse on all of this - the rig burned and sank after
dumping the loose contents off decks. We can only hope that the contents and rig slid off to the side and didn't slice pipelines and brake well heads / trees. There might have been several Trees under there and this was the next well. Facts will eek out. I think I know the BP manager in charge (contractor). I sure don't want to call him. Another friend runs robots to put on trees and repair bottom stuff. Martin Gerry wrote: On Apr 30, 9:21 pm, "Martin H. Eastburn" wrote: Ok - here goes some of what I know. I Think that was a drill rig - floating but had anchors into the bottom!-CORRECT, A SEMI-SUBMERSIBLE RIG, THAT WAS FLOATED TO THE SITE, THEN HAD IT'S BALLAST TANKS FILLED WITH WATER TO LOWER IT IN THE WATER. eIGHT ANCHORS AND EIGHT THRUSTERS HELD IT IN THE DESIRED LOCATION USING GPS It might have more than one drill stem working. Likely only one. They were talking about underwater robotics turning off the flow from T's ROVS ARE CAPABLE OF OPERATING THE CONTROLS FOR THE BOP LOCALLY. tHEY MAY EVEN BE ABLE TO HOOK UP HYDRAULIC LINES FROM A NEW HYDRAULIC ACCUMILATOR TO OPERATE THE BOP SHOULD THE LINES FROM THE RIG BE DAMAGED A T is normally put on post drilling. Preventer are for drilling.CORRECT. tHIS RIG WAS FINISHED DRILLING AND WAS IN THE PROCESS OF CEMENTING THE WELL IN PREP TO A PRODUCING WELL So it would sound as if drilling was completed and the hole was being changed over from drilling to production. T's hook up to pipes the pipes run to a production rig. Think umbrella - ribs are pipes to the production rig in the middle. A larger pipeline is routed to the mainland from the production rig. Underwater T's are used like faucet knobs. Turn on this or off that. Companies are in business to put on and others to play with them. It sounds like a coupling that was used blew or a T itself blew. That deep, you have to have robots to look and see and to do anything. They don't sit on the bottom and are brought out from the mainland. Not being an insider (I have friends in the business and such) I don't have any first hand on this. It might be the pressure was far in excess of what was expected at that site. The T might have burst. If so - then another has to be brought out and sent down by robot... What I want to know is why the Coast Guard waited around and did so little - and why did it take a 1 hour until disaster - to do an all out... The cargo planes dropping solvents - where are they - why not burns - why not containment or more of it... Something stinks on this - I suspect the far left let this go proving to the press that off shore wells can't be put near Santa Barbara or off the East coast or Florida. This long delay speaks volumes! Martin BOPS ARE DESIGNED TO EITHER SEAL AROUND THE DRILL PIPE TO CLOSE THE ANNULUS OR TO PINCH THE DRILLPIPE CLOSED AND SEVER THE PIPE ABOVE THE RAM. THEY ARE POWERED BY HIGH PRESSURE HYDRAULIC SYSTEM WHICH MAY BE LOCATED ON THE RIG OR ON THE BOP RACK AT THE SEA FLOOR. LOOKS LIKE, FOR SOME REASON, THESE BOP RAMS DID NOT SEAL. THEY HAVE RUBBER ELEMENTS THAT WILL QUICKLY BE EAT OUT IF ANY FLOW IS ALLOWED THROUGH THEM. ONCE EATEN OUT, YOU'RE SCREWED. PINCHING OFF THE DRILLPIPE IS LAST RESORT. ONCE THE RIG EXPLODED THERE MAY HAVE BEEN NO WAY TO OPERATE THE BOP FROM ANYWHERE BUT THE SEAFLOOR. IT IS UNLIKELY ANYONE WILL KNOW EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED UNTIL THEY ARE ABLE TO BRING THE BOP TO THE SURFACE. UNTIL THEN EVERYTHING IS SPECULATION SORRY ABOUT THE CAPS BUT THAT WAS THE EASIEST WAY FOR ME TO ADD TO MARTIN'S POST |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
On Sat, 01 May 2010 22:11:12 -0500, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote: What is worse on all of this - the rig burned and sank after dumping the loose contents off decks. We can only hope that the contents and rig slid off to the side and didn't slice pipelines and brake well heads / trees. There might have been several Trees under there and this was the next well. Facts will eek out. I think I know the BP manager in charge (contractor). I sure don't want to call him. Another friend runs robots to put on trees and repair bottom stuff. =========== The problem is that *NO ONE* is coming clean on what happened. For example, was a BOP [blow out preventer] even installed? http://www.andrewhalcro.com/exclusiv..._out_protector There were supposed to be other "fail safe" shut-offs, but it is apparent these did not function either. A robotic sub reportedly attempted to activate one of the secondary shut-offs with no success. Is it possible that they were unable to locate because there are none, or were "quakers" or "dummies" installed to save money. I have even seen claims on the internet this explosion was caused by environmentalist saboteurs. http://www.godlikeproductions.com/fo...age1052802/pg1 for some additional info see http://www.upstreamonline.com/live/article213497.ece http://drillingclub.proboards.com/in...&thread= 4471 -- Unka George (George McDuffee) ............................... The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953). |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
On Sat, 01 May 2010 23:50:37 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote: Facts will eek out. I think I know the BP manager in charge (contractor). I sure don't want to call him. Another friend runs robots to put on trees and repair bottom stuff. =========== The problem is that *NO ONE* is coming clean on what happened. For example, was a BOP [blow out preventer] even installed? http://www.andrewhalcro.com/exclusiv..._out_protector There were supposed to be other "fail safe" shut-offs, but it is apparent these did not function either. A robotic sub reportedly attempted to activate one of the secondary shut-offs with no success. Is it possible that they were unable to locate because there are none, or were "quakers" or "dummies" installed to save money. Ive worked in and around the oil fields for many years, and frankly I cannot imagine in my worst moments, any oil company NOT using a BOP in any drilling operation of this sort. Frankly..they are far far too critical for even minor "kicks" and all manner of other uses while drilling a well. It would be like having a motor vehicle without a reverse gear. Gunner "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message ... On Sat, 01 May 2010 23:50:37 -0500, F. George McDuffee wrote: Facts will eek out. I think I know the BP manager in charge (contractor). I sure don't want to call him. Another friend runs robots to put on trees and repair bottom stuff. =========== The problem is that *NO ONE* is coming clean on what happened. For example, was a BOP [blow out preventer] even installed? http://www.andrewhalcro.com/exclusiv..._out_protector There were supposed to be other "fail safe" shut-offs, but it is apparent these did not function either. A robotic sub reportedly attempted to activate one of the secondary shut-offs with no success. Is it possible that they were unable to locate because there are none, or were "quakers" or "dummies" installed to save money. Ive worked in and around the oil fields for many years, and frankly I cannot imagine in my worst moments, any oil company NOT using a BOP in any drilling operation of this sort. Frankly..they are far far too critical for even minor "kicks" and all manner of other uses while drilling a well. It would be like having a motor vehicle without a reverse gear. Gunner I agree with you Gunner. Not even the little two bit gas rigs in southern Alberta back in the seventies were that stupid. They used to get up to all sorts of shifty tricks to make a buck as the oil companies screwed the last cent out of every contract. They often would start drilling ahead as soon as they had set cement. As the holes were often only a couple of thousand feet deep, they would be into the Milk River sand before the cement had set up properly. They have some pretty high pressure pockets in that formation,and every once in a while somebody would run out of luck and hit one before the surface pipe was well set in. It would blow the drill string,surface pipe and BOP's out through the monkey board usually striking a spark and setting the whole bloody lot alight. It would then burn for days untill they got another rig in to drill a relief hole and kill it all. Because it was on land,and in south central nowhere, it didn't get much publicity. The rig hands generally saw it coming and watched it all from the next township. The sky was lit up most of the time from flares anyway so no one paid much attention to another fire. By the late sixties, the companies got a lot smater and had there guys wathing things and the practices improved a lot |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
On Sun, 2 May 2010 18:37:29 +1000, "Grumpy"
wrote: "Gunner Asch" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 01 May 2010 23:50:37 -0500, F. George McDuffee wrote: Facts will eek out. I think I know the BP manager in charge (contractor). I sure don't want to call him. Another friend runs robots to put on trees and repair bottom stuff. =========== The problem is that *NO ONE* is coming clean on what happened. For example, was a BOP [blow out preventer] even installed? http://www.andrewhalcro.com/exclusiv..._out_protector There were supposed to be other "fail safe" shut-offs, but it is apparent these did not function either. A robotic sub reportedly attempted to activate one of the secondary shut-offs with no success. Is it possible that they were unable to locate because there are none, or were "quakers" or "dummies" installed to save money. Ive worked in and around the oil fields for many years, and frankly I cannot imagine in my worst moments, any oil company NOT using a BOP in any drilling operation of this sort. Frankly..they are far far too critical for even minor "kicks" and all manner of other uses while drilling a well. It would be like having a motor vehicle without a reverse gear. Gunner I agree with you Gunner. Not even the little two bit gas rigs in southern Alberta back in the seventies were that stupid. They used to get up to all sorts of shifty tricks to make a buck as the oil companies screwed the last cent out of every contract. They often would start drilling ahead as soon as they had set cement. As the holes were often only a couple of thousand feet deep, they would be into the Milk River sand before the cement had set up properly. They have some pretty high pressure pockets in that formation,and every once in a while somebody would run out of luck and hit one before the surface pipe was well set in. It would blow the drill string,surface pipe and BOP's out through the monkey board usually striking a spark and setting the whole bloody lot alight. It would then burn for days untill they got another rig in to drill a relief hole and kill it all. Because it was on land,and in south central nowhere, it didn't get much publicity. The rig hands generally saw it coming and watched it all from the next township. The sky was lit up most of the time from flares anyway so no one paid much attention to another fire. By the late sixties, the companies got a lot smater and had there guys wathing things and the practices improved a lot Indeed. Hell..when I was working on bull**** rigs, we used BOPs on gas laden wells when we pulled pump strings..this back in the late 70s. The oil companies got a hell of a lot smarter..cash talks really well in the patch and ****ing money away on putting out a well fire eats way way into the bottom line, so they got religion. BOP rental was very very cheap insurance and then it became law. Gunner "Lenin called them "useful idiots," those people living in liberal democracies who by giving moral and material support to a totalitarian ideology in effect were braiding the rope that would hang them. Why people who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question, one still with us today. Now the useful idiots can be found in the chorus of appeasement, reflexive anti-Americanism, and sentimental idealism trying to inhibit the necessary responses to another freedom-hating ideology, radical Islam" Bruce C. Thornton, a professor of Classics at American University of Cal State Fresno |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
On Sat, 01 May 2010 22:37:30 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote: snip Ive worked in and around the oil fields for many years, and frankly I cannot imagine in my worst moments, any oil company NOT using a BOP in any drilling operation of this sort. Frankly..they are far far too critical for even minor "kicks" and all manner of other uses while drilling a well. snip In a rational world this would indeed appear to be the case, however there were several layers of contractors/subcontractors, etc. involved, and some of the individual management may have been involved in some sort of kickback/false invoice scheme to bill for a BOP [some cost estimates are 500k$US for basic device, higher for deep sea in-place (c. 5,000 feet)] and several hundred thousand $ more each for back-up and redundant/emergency cutoff valves, which were never installed, or were salvage repaints. If there is a buck to be skimmed, there will be people standing in line to do it. The same thing holds true for coalmines. Far more expensive to have an explosion or roof collapse than to provide adequate ventilation or roof supports. Another example is the use of sub-standard or counterfeit aircraft components. FWIW -- Pres. Obama should issue a directive ASAP to the DoJ to treat this as a crime scene with 11 likely counts of negligent homicide, possibly morphing into 11 counts of felony murder, if it can be shown the deaths occurred as the result of or during the commission of a crime. Also issue a directive to Homeland Security to treat this as a national security breach until determined otherwise. From a strictly economic standpoint, this has the potential to be far more costly and long-term that 9-11. All corporations involved should be prevented from transferring funds and/or any records outside US jurisdiction, destroying any records [under threat of "obstruction of justice" charges], and company executives (and other employees that might be involved or have knowledge) should be prevented from leaving US jurisdiction without permission. All materials recovered, especially the BOP and emergency cutoff valves, should be impounded and kept under guard at a federal facility pending complete inspection/evaluation. The NTSB, because of their expertise in accident reconstruction is suggested as the initial lead investigative agency with the closest and continuous cooperation/liaison with OSHA, BATF, FBI, IRS [follow the money], and other DoJ agencies including the U.S. Attorneys Office for the regions involved. -- -- Unka George (George McDuffee) ............................... The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953). |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message ... On Sun, 2 May 2010 18:37:29 +1000, "Grumpy" wrote: "Gunner Asch" wrote in message . .. On Sat, 01 May 2010 23:50:37 -0500, F. George McDuffee wrote: Facts will eek out. I think I know the BP manager in charge (contractor). I sure don't want to call him. Another friend runs robots to put on trees and repair bottom stuff. =========== The problem is that *NO ONE* is coming clean on what happened. For example, was a BOP [blow out preventer] even installed? http://www.andrewhalcro.com/exclusiv..._out_protector There were supposed to be other "fail safe" shut-offs, but it is apparent these did not function either. A robotic sub reportedly attempted to activate one of the secondary shut-offs with no success. Is it possible that they were unable to locate because there are none, or were "quakers" or "dummies" installed to save money. Ive worked in and around the oil fields for many years, and frankly I cannot imagine in my worst moments, any oil company NOT using a BOP in any drilling operation of this sort. Frankly..they are far far too critical for even minor "kicks" and all manner of other uses while drilling a well. It would be like having a motor vehicle without a reverse gear. Gunner I agree with you Gunner. Not even the little two bit gas rigs in southern Alberta back in the seventies were that stupid. They used to get up to all sorts of shifty tricks to make a buck as the oil companies screwed the last cent out of every contract. They often would start drilling ahead as soon as they had set cement. As the holes were often only a couple of thousand feet deep, they would be into the Milk River sand before the cement had set up properly. They have some pretty high pressure pockets in that formation,and every once in a while somebody would run out of luck and hit one before the surface pipe was well set in. It would blow the drill string,surface pipe and BOP's out through the monkey board usually striking a spark and setting the whole bloody lot alight. It would then burn for days untill they got another rig in to drill a relief hole and kill it all. Because it was on land,and in south central nowhere, it didn't get much publicity. The rig hands generally saw it coming and watched it all from the next township. The sky was lit up most of the time from flares anyway so no one paid much attention to another fire. By the late sixties, the companies got a lot smater and had there guys wathing things and the practices improved a lot Indeed. Hell..when I was working on bull**** rigs, we used BOPs on gas laden wells when we pulled pump strings..this back in the late 70s. The oil companies got a hell of a lot smarter..cash talks really well in the patch and ****ing money away on putting out a well fire eats way way into the bottom line, so they got religion. BOP rental was very very cheap insurance and then it became law. Gunner All the little rigs had BOP's as part of their equipment and didn't rent them. I did a jon near Red Deer, Alberta once on a really nasty well. It was a great earner, but the sour gas ( H2S) was high as was the shut in pressure. The company didn't want to kill the well,but needed to change the production tubing. We set a plug at the bottom of the production string and a snubber set was installed at the bottom of the workover rig as the pressure would have blown the tubing string into orbit. Every length was snubbed out of the hole and any gas was vented and burned to get rid if the sour gas. It must have cost a fortune just to change the production tubing! |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
On Sun, 02 May 2010 18:13:13 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote: On Sat, 01 May 2010 22:37:30 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: snip Ive worked in and around the oil fields for many years, and frankly I cannot imagine in my worst moments, any oil company NOT using a BOP in any drilling operation of this sort. Frankly..they are far far too critical for even minor "kicks" and all manner of other uses while drilling a well. snip In a rational world this would indeed appear to be the case, however there were several layers of contractors/subcontractors, etc. involved, and some of the individual management may have been involved in some sort of kickback/false invoice scheme to bill for a BOP [some cost estimates are 500k$US for basic device, higher for deep sea in-place (c. 5,000 feet)] and several hundred thousand $ more each for back-up and redundant/emergency cutoff valves, which were never installed, or were salvage repaints. If there is a buck to be skimmed, there will be people standing in line to do it. The same thing holds true for coalmines. Far more expensive to have an explosion or roof collapse than to provide adequate ventilation or roof supports. Another example is the use of sub-standard or counterfeit aircraft components. FWIW -- Pres. Obama should issue a directive ASAP to the DoJ to treat this as a crime scene with 11 likely counts of negligent homicide, possibly morphing into 11 counts of felony murder, if it can be shown the deaths occurred as the result of or during the commission of a crime. Also issue a directive to Homeland Security to treat this as a national security breach until determined otherwise. From a strictly economic standpoint, this has the potential to be far more costly and long-term that 9-11. All corporations involved should be prevented from transferring funds and/or any records outside US jurisdiction, destroying any records [under threat of "obstruction of justice" charges], and company executives (and other employees that might be involved or have knowledge) should be prevented from leaving US jurisdiction without permission. All materials recovered, especially the BOP and emergency cutoff valves, should be impounded and kept under guard at a federal facility pending complete inspection/evaluation. The NTSB, because of their expertise in accident reconstruction is suggested as the initial lead investigative agency with the closest and continuous cooperation/liaison with OSHA, BATF, FBI, IRS [follow the money], and other DoJ agencies including the U.S. Attorneys Office for the regions involved. Of course, but....do you think that a rig is spudded in, without a full and complete checkout by various agencies? A little basic info... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blowout_preventer And then the meat.... http://www.flickr.com/photos/uscgd8/4552485336/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/uscgd8/4551846015/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/uscgd8/4560777718/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/uscgd8/4549418892/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/uscgd8/4549418588/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/uscgd8/4542967408/ Ayup...pretty much shows that they had a BOP installed. Didnt work however. And no..there is no such thing as a Dummy BOP "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
On Sun, 02 May 2010 17:22:18 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote: snip Ayup...pretty much shows that they had a BOP installed. Didnt work however. And no..there is no such thing as a Dummy BOP snip ========== While in all large organizations you can find letters and memos in the files on every side of every question, the following may be of interest. http://business.timesonline.co.uk/to...cle7114087.ece {be sure and review the reader comments} Note that the [sub]contractors got the job because they had the low bid. There are several ways to produce a low bid and still make a profit, only one of which is effectiveness and efficiency.... -- -- Unka George (George McDuffee) ............................... The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953). |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
I heard today from a BP rep - that the hole was experimental. New field
I suppose. So it was a single hole and not a family of pipelines and other things. It sounds as if they hit a dome of oil that is gas powered. The top of the dome is high pressure gas. In movies and such - these shoot the drill stem out the top of the derrick. In drilling in these unknown ground fields - they see the data of exploration and think there is oil or gas - and put a well there to see if it is true. I have heard of times of a blow-out - land ones - that normally you stab the stem in the BOP. It has happened that this occured when the drilling head itself was just rising through and the two pinching units can't work through a head leaving a hole partly closed. One won't know until we get the final facts. There is thought that another hole into the dome might relieve the pressure but drilling would take weeks. Martin Grumpy wrote: "Gunner Asch" wrote in message ... On Sat, 01 May 2010 23:50:37 -0500, F. George McDuffee wrote: Facts will eek out. I think I know the BP manager in charge (contractor). I sure don't want to call him. Another friend runs robots to put on trees and repair bottom stuff. =========== The problem is that *NO ONE* is coming clean on what happened. For example, was a BOP [blow out preventer] even installed? http://www.andrewhalcro.com/exclusiv..._out_protector There were supposed to be other "fail safe" shut-offs, but it is apparent these did not function either. A robotic sub reportedly attempted to activate one of the secondary shut-offs with no success. Is it possible that they were unable to locate because there are none, or were "quakers" or "dummies" installed to save money. Ive worked in and around the oil fields for many years, and frankly I cannot imagine in my worst moments, any oil company NOT using a BOP in any drilling operation of this sort. Frankly..they are far far too critical for even minor "kicks" and all manner of other uses while drilling a well. It would be like having a motor vehicle without a reverse gear. Gunner I agree with you Gunner. Not even the little two bit gas rigs in southern Alberta back in the seventies were that stupid. They used to get up to all sorts of shifty tricks to make a buck as the oil companies screwed the last cent out of every contract. They often would start drilling ahead as soon as they had set cement. As the holes were often only a couple of thousand feet deep, they would be into the Milk River sand before the cement had set up properly. They have some pretty high pressure pockets in that formation,and every once in a while somebody would run out of luck and hit one before the surface pipe was well set in. It would blow the drill string,surface pipe and BOP's out through the monkey board usually striking a spark and setting the whole bloody lot alight. It would then burn for days untill they got another rig in to drill a relief hole and kill it all. Because it was on land,and in south central nowhere, it didn't get much publicity. The rig hands generally saw it coming and watched it all from the next township. The sky was lit up most of the time from flares anyway so no one paid much attention to another fire. By the late sixties, the companies got a lot smater and had there guys wathing things and the practices improved a lot |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message ... What is worse on all of this - the rig burned and sank after dumping the loose contents off decks. We can only hope that the contents and rig slid off to the side and didn't slice pipelines and brake well heads / trees. There might have been several Trees under there and this was the next well. Facts will eek out. I think I know the BP manager in charge (contractor). I sure don't want to call him. Another friend runs robots to put on trees and repair bottom stuff. Martin From what I read, it was one solitary well. Do not quote me. For a 23,000 foot drill string, there would have been a lot of drill pipe, collars, stabilizers, tools, jars, etc etc etc on deck. Most of the other stuff would have made a slower descent. Steve visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com watch for the book A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult. |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
On Sun, 2 May 2010 21:44:44 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote: snip How would one run a BOP so far down when a BOP must be hooked to hydraulic lines at all times in order to function? I am not familiar with the deep water drilling techniques. Steve ====== If I understand correctly, the "normal" position of the BOP is closed, with very considerable force, designed to shear the normal "string" of drill pipe. The hydraulic lines/pressure force/hold the BOP open, thus if all the junk on the oil platform did slide off and cut the lines, the BOP should have slammed shut. There is the possibility that the junk falling from the capsizing oil platform crushed the control lines trapping the pressure and holding the BOP open, but from the somewhat ambagious media reports it appears one of the remote submersibles managed to trip the emergency dump valve on the hydraulic lines at the BOP, and trip one of the emergency cutoff valves with no effect on the flow. Two other items that may have contributed/be contributing to the problem: There are several media report that the BOP was modified by the drilling contractor, but these modifications were not approved by or even known to the BOP manufacturer until they say the underwater photos of the BOP. Halliburton had just finished cementing the well about 20 hours before the blowout. Halliburton was a pioneer in the cementing of deep sea wells, but as the depth increased over the last few years [c. 5,000 feet] so did their problems, indicating that their procedures/materials may have exceeded their limits. Again according to the media, cementing is one of the most dangerous phases of bringing a deep sea well into production, with almost 1/2 of blowouts and other serious blow-outs over the last few years occurring at that time. Another factor according to several posters that appear to know was the use by Halliburton of a new and slightly less expensive cement formulation. If the oil flow is indeed around the outside of the well casing this is very critical and highly dangerous problem as the flow will scour a larger and larger channel increasing the flow rate, and in many cases has been known to blow the casing and its contents [drill stem, drill, cement plug] out of the well, and the emergency cutoff and BOP valves out of the way. -- -- Unka George (George McDuffee) ............................... The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953). |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message ... On Sat, 01 May 2010 23:50:37 -0500, F. George McDuffee wrote: Facts will eek out. I think I know the BP manager in charge (contractor). I sure don't want to call him. Another friend runs robots to put on trees and repair bottom stuff. =========== The problem is that *NO ONE* is coming clean on what happened. For example, was a BOP [blow out preventer] even installed? http://www.andrewhalcro.com/exclusiv..._out_protector There were supposed to be other "fail safe" shut-offs, but it is apparent these did not function either. A robotic sub reportedly attempted to activate one of the secondary shut-offs with no success. Is it possible that they were unable to locate because there are none, or were "quakers" or "dummies" installed to save money. Ive worked in and around the oil fields for many years, and frankly I cannot imagine in my worst moments, any oil company NOT using a BOP in any drilling operation of this sort. Frankly..they are far far too critical for even minor "kicks" and all manner of other uses while drilling a well. It would be like having a motor vehicle without a reverse gear. Gunner How would one run a BOP so far down when a BOP must be hooked to hydraulic lines at all times in order to function? I am not familiar with the deep water drilling techniques. Steve |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
On Sun, 2 May 2010 21:44:44 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote: "Gunner Asch" wrote in message .. . On Sat, 01 May 2010 23:50:37 -0500, F. George McDuffee wrote: Facts will eek out. I think I know the BP manager in charge (contractor). I sure don't want to call him. Another friend runs robots to put on trees and repair bottom stuff. =========== The problem is that *NO ONE* is coming clean on what happened. For example, was a BOP [blow out preventer] even installed? http://www.andrewhalcro.com/exclusiv..._out_protector There were supposed to be other "fail safe" shut-offs, but it is apparent these did not function either. A robotic sub reportedly attempted to activate one of the secondary shut-offs with no success. Is it possible that they were unable to locate because there are none, or were "quakers" or "dummies" installed to save money. Ive worked in and around the oil fields for many years, and frankly I cannot imagine in my worst moments, any oil company NOT using a BOP in any drilling operation of this sort. Frankly..they are far far too critical for even minor "kicks" and all manner of other uses while drilling a well. It would be like having a motor vehicle without a reverse gear. Gunner How would one run a BOP so far down when a BOP must be hooked to hydraulic lines at all times in order to function? I am not familiar with the deep water drilling techniques. Steve They are set on wellhead or on top of the casing. Hydraulic lines can be quite long. Gunner -- "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
On Sun, 02 May 2010 23:44:02 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote: If I understand correctly, the "normal" position of the BOP is closed, with very considerable force, designed to shear the normal "string" of drill pipe. The hydraulic lines/pressure force/hold the BOP open, Nope..with no pressure, they are open. Add pressure and they close. Gunner -- "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
This was apparently a deep water type. Might now work with
hydrolyic pressure. That might be bad if there was a problem on the platform and so forth. Martin Steve B wrote: "Gunner Asch" wrote in message ... On Sat, 01 May 2010 23:50:37 -0500, F. George McDuffee wrote: Facts will eek out. I think I know the BP manager in charge (contractor). I sure don't want to call him. Another friend runs robots to put on trees and repair bottom stuff. =========== The problem is that *NO ONE* is coming clean on what happened. For example, was a BOP [blow out preventer] even installed? http://www.andrewhalcro.com/exclusiv..._out_protector There were supposed to be other "fail safe" shut-offs, but it is apparent these did not function either. A robotic sub reportedly attempted to activate one of the secondary shut-offs with no success. Is it possible that they were unable to locate because there are none, or were "quakers" or "dummies" installed to save money. Ive worked in and around the oil fields for many years, and frankly I cannot imagine in my worst moments, any oil company NOT using a BOP in any drilling operation of this sort. Frankly..they are far far too critical for even minor "kicks" and all manner of other uses while drilling a well. It would be like having a motor vehicle without a reverse gear. Gunner How would one run a BOP so far down when a BOP must be hooked to hydraulic lines at all times in order to function? I am not familiar with the deep water drilling techniques. Steve |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
The pictures Gunner provided showed the bent pipe and issues -
and where the platform landed - away from the hole. The BOP looked free and clear. I'm not sure about the stem. Two leaks are coming from it as it lies on the bottom. I'd think and consider it a logical idea - that a portable BOP - one that clamps around and bolts on - could be put on the pipe as it is. I don't know if there is such a thing since it would be almost only use in times like this with pipes askew or normal with a blowout in progress. Robots would have to install it due to the danger. Martin Steve B wrote: "Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message ... What is worse on all of this - the rig burned and sank after dumping the loose contents off decks. We can only hope that the contents and rig slid off to the side and didn't slice pipelines and brake well heads / trees. There might have been several Trees under there and this was the next well. Facts will eek out. I think I know the BP manager in charge (contractor). I sure don't want to call him. Another friend runs robots to put on trees and repair bottom stuff. Martin From what I read, it was one solitary well. Do not quote me. For a 23,000 foot drill string, there would have been a lot of drill pipe, collars, stabilizers, tools, jars, etc etc etc on deck. Most of the other stuff would have made a slower descent. Steve visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com watch for the book A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult. |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
apparently there was drill stem inside the pipe, which would explain why the
BOP couldn't crush it closed "Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message ... The pictures Gunner provided showed the bent pipe and issues - and where the platform landed - away from the hole. The BOP looked free and clear. I'm not sure about the stem. Two leaks are coming from it as it lies on the bottom. I'd think and consider it a logical idea - that a portable BOP - one that clamps around and bolts on - could be put on the pipe as it is. I don't know if there is such a thing since it would be almost only use in times like this with pipes askew or normal with a blowout in progress. Robots would have to install it due to the danger. Martin Steve B wrote: "Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message ... What is worse on all of this - the rig burned and sank after dumping the loose contents off decks. We can only hope that the contents and rig slid off to the side and didn't slice pipelines and brake well heads / trees. There might have been several Trees under there and this was the next well. Facts will eek out. I think I know the BP manager in charge (contractor). I sure don't want to call him. Another friend runs robots to put on trees and repair bottom stuff. Martin From what I read, it was one solitary well. Do not quote me. For a 23,000 foot drill string, there would have been a lot of drill pipe, collars, stabilizers, tools, jars, etc etc etc on deck. Most of the other stuff would have made a slower descent. Steve visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com watch for the book A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult. |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
On Mon, 03 May 2010 22:03:57 -0500, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote: The pictures Gunner provided showed the bent pipe and issues - and where the platform landed - away from the hole. The BOP looked free and clear. I'm not sure about the stem. Two leaks are coming from it as it lies on the bottom. I'd think and consider it a logical idea - that a portable BOP - one that clamps around and bolts on - could be put on the pipe as it is. I don't know if there is such a thing since it would be almost only use in times like this with pipes askew or normal with a blowout in progress. Robots would have to install it due to the danger. Not just the danger..but the depth. Martin Steve B wrote: "Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message ... What is worse on all of this - the rig burned and sank after dumping the loose contents off decks. We can only hope that the contents and rig slid off to the side and didn't slice pipelines and brake well heads / trees. There might have been several Trees under there and this was the next well. Facts will eek out. I think I know the BP manager in charge (contractor). I sure don't want to call him. Another friend runs robots to put on trees and repair bottom stuff. Martin From what I read, it was one solitary well. Do not quote me. For a 23,000 foot drill string, there would have been a lot of drill pipe, collars, stabilizers, tools, jars, etc etc etc on deck. Most of the other stuff would have made a slower descent. Steve visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com watch for the book A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult. -- "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
On Mon, 3 May 2010 22:19:25 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote: apparently there was drill stem inside the pipe, which would explain why the BOP couldn't crush it closed BOPs crush and shear drill stem like cheap drinking straws. Gunner "Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message ... The pictures Gunner provided showed the bent pipe and issues - and where the platform landed - away from the hole. The BOP looked free and clear. I'm not sure about the stem. Two leaks are coming from it as it lies on the bottom. I'd think and consider it a logical idea - that a portable BOP - one that clamps around and bolts on - could be put on the pipe as it is. I don't know if there is such a thing since it would be almost only use in times like this with pipes askew or normal with a blowout in progress. Robots would have to install it due to the danger. Martin Steve B wrote: "Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message ... What is worse on all of this - the rig burned and sank after dumping the loose contents off decks. We can only hope that the contents and rig slid off to the side and didn't slice pipelines and brake well heads / trees. There might have been several Trees under there and this was the next well. Facts will eek out. I think I know the BP manager in charge (contractor). I sure don't want to call him. Another friend runs robots to put on trees and repair bottom stuff. Martin From what I read, it was one solitary well. Do not quote me. For a 23,000 foot drill string, there would have been a lot of drill pipe, collars, stabilizers, tools, jars, etc etc etc on deck. Most of the other stuff would have made a slower descent. Steve visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com watch for the book A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult. -- "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
BOP's crush both pipes without problem.
The only problem I have heard of is when the cutting head is inside the BOP the larger mass and strength inhibits the BOP closure. It seems this isn't the case, unknown - as they were trying to yank on the manual throw - meaning it never triggered. Martin Bill Noble wrote: apparently there was drill stem inside the pipe, which would explain why the BOP couldn't crush it closed "Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message ... The pictures Gunner provided showed the bent pipe and issues - and where the platform landed - away from the hole. The BOP looked free and clear. I'm not sure about the stem. Two leaks are coming from it as it lies on the bottom. I'd think and consider it a logical idea - that a portable BOP - one that clamps around and bolts on - could be put on the pipe as it is. I don't know if there is such a thing since it would be almost only use in times like this with pipes askew or normal with a blowout in progress. Robots would have to install it due to the danger. Martin Steve B wrote: "Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message ... What is worse on all of this - the rig burned and sank after dumping the loose contents off decks. We can only hope that the contents and rig slid off to the side and didn't slice pipelines and brake well heads / trees. There might have been several Trees under there and this was the next well. Facts will eek out. I think I know the BP manager in charge (contractor). I sure don't want to call him. Another friend runs robots to put on trees and repair bottom stuff. Martin From what I read, it was one solitary well. Do not quote me. For a 23,000 foot drill string, there would have been a lot of drill pipe, collars, stabilizers, tools, jars, etc etc etc on deck. Most of the other stuff would have made a slower descent. Steve visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com watch for the book A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult. |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
I was watching the BP control room running robots from Houston.
They experimented with a cutter tool and it sliced through the main pipe and drill stem. Oil rerouted. What I don't understand with the 'BELL' they are putting in - Why not cut the pipe very near the down-hole - and then drop the bell over that trapping all of the oil. It sounds as if they intend of dropping it at pipe end and seal off any leaks. Seems prone for future problems. Martin On 5/5/2010 9:28 PM, Martin H. Eastburn wrote: BOP's crush both pipes without problem. The only problem I have heard of is when the cutting head is inside the BOP the larger mass and strength inhibits the BOP closure. It seems this isn't the case, unknown - as they were trying to yank on the manual throw - meaning it never triggered. Martin Bill Noble wrote: apparently there was drill stem inside the pipe, which would explain why the BOP couldn't crush it closed "Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message ... The pictures Gunner provided showed the bent pipe and issues - and where the platform landed - away from the hole. The BOP looked free and clear. I'm not sure about the stem. Two leaks are coming from it as it lies on the bottom. I'd think and consider it a logical idea - that a portable BOP - one that clamps around and bolts on - could be put on the pipe as it is. I don't know if there is such a thing since it would be almost only use in times like this with pipes askew or normal with a blowout in progress. Robots would have to install it due to the danger. Martin Steve B wrote: "Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message ... What is worse on all of this - the rig burned and sank after dumping the loose contents off decks. We can only hope that the contents and rig slid off to the side and didn't slice pipelines and brake well heads / trees. There might have been several Trees under there and this was the next well. Facts will eek out. I think I know the BP manager in charge (contractor). I sure don't want to call him. Another friend runs robots to put on trees and repair bottom stuff. Martin From what I read, it was one solitary well. Do not quote me. For a 23,000 foot drill string, there would have been a lot of drill pipe, collars, stabilizers, tools, jars, etc etc etc on deck. Most of the other stuff would have made a slower descent. Steve visit my blog at http://cabgbypasssurgery.com watch for the book A fool shows his annoyance at once, but a prudent man overlooks an insult. |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
On May 3, 2:28*am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 02 May 2010 23:44:02 -0500, F. George McDuffee wrote: If I understand correctly, the "normal" position of the BOP is closed, with very considerable force, designed to shear the normal "string" of drill pipe. *The hydraulic lines/pressure force/hold the BOP open, Nope..with no pressure, they are open. Add pressure and they close. Gunner If that is truly the case, then it's really a bull**** design. How could any right-thinking person design a system to protect against a failure at the bottom of the ocean that depends on miles of hydraulic lines and pumps on the surface? Westinghouse had this pretty much covered a hundred and forty years ago. A "failsafe" system should go to the "safe" condition when something "fails." |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
On Thu, 6 May 2010 19:19:33 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote: On May 3, 2:28*am, Gunner Asch wrote: On Sun, 02 May 2010 23:44:02 -0500, F. George McDuffee wrote: If I understand correctly, the "normal" position of the BOP is closed, with very considerable force, designed to shear the normal "string" of drill pipe. *The hydraulic lines/pressure force/hold the BOP open, Nope..with no pressure, they are open. Add pressure and they close. Gunner If that is truly the case, then it's really a bull**** design. How could any right-thinking person design a system to protect against a failure at the bottom of the ocean that depends on miles of hydraulic lines and pumps on the surface? Westinghouse had this pretty much covered a hundred and forty years ago. A "failsafe" system should go to the "safe" condition when something "fails." =============== This may be a case of sending a boy to do a gorilla's job... I have not been able to track down actual specs, but from several media articles it appears that the BOP and emergency guillotine emergency valves used were rated to 60k PSI. There is always some safety factor, so the valves would most likely operate at 80k PSI, although with some leaks and a reduced duty cycle. The apparent fact that the BOP and other emergency valves were blown apart/off like a cheap mailbox with an M-80, indicates a *MUCH* higher well pressure when the "kick" occurred. The working well pressures at these depths [c 5,000 feet sea water, 18,000 feet well, possibly much deeper] do not seem to be known with any accuracy, but if this is indeed above c. 150k PSI we may not have the technology required to control/cap. FWIW 0.44 PSI per foot of sea water X 5,000 feet = 2,200 PSI. http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_d...ertical _foot -- Unka George (George McDuffee) ............................... The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953). |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
I was watching the BP control room running robots from Houston. They experimented with a cutter tool and it sliced through the main pipe and drill stem. Oil rerouted. What I don't understand with the 'BELL' they are putting in - Why not cut the pipe very near the down-hole - and then drop the bell over that trapping all of the oil. It sounds as if they intend of dropping it at pipe end and seal off any leaks. Seems prone for future problems. Martin Just a wild guess, of course, but maybe they still want to harvest that oil? First stop the leaks, then tap in and pump it up. -- Richard Lamb http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/ |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
So cut the pipe at the well head - put the bell over it and then
draw the oil from the bell. What is so hard to think of that. Martin On 5/7/2010 7:04 AM, cavelamb wrote: Martin H. Eastburn wrote: I was watching the BP control room running robots from Houston. They experimented with a cutter tool and it sliced through the main pipe and drill stem. Oil rerouted. What I don't understand with the 'BELL' they are putting in - Why not cut the pipe very near the down-hole - and then drop the bell over that trapping all of the oil. It sounds as if they intend of dropping it at pipe end and seal off any leaks. Seems prone for future problems. Martin Just a wild guess, of course, but maybe they still want to harvest that oil? First stop the leaks, then tap in and pump it up. |
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Questions about underwater oil drilling..
In case you missed it.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100508/D9FIL6L00.html May 8, 8:04 AM (ET) By JEFF DONN AND SETH BORENSTEIN HOUSTON (AP) - Cutoff valves like the one that failed to stop the Gulf of Mexico oil disaster have repeatedly broken down at other wells in the years since federal regulators weakened testing requirements, according to an Associated Press investigation. These steel monsters known as blowout preventers or BOPs - sometimes as big as a double-decker bus and weighing up to 640,000 pounds - guard the mouth of wells. They act as the last defense to choke off unintended releases, slamming a gushing pipe with up to 1 million pounds of force. snip - Accident reports from the U.S. Minerals Management Service, a branch of the Interior Department, show that the devices have failed or otherwise played a role in at least 14 accidents, mostly since 2005. - Government and industry reports have raised questions about the reliability of blowout preventers for more than a decade. A 2003 report by Transocean, the owner of the destroyed rig, said: "Floating drilling rig downtime due to poor BOP reliability is a common and very costly issue confronting all offshore drilling contractors." - Lawsuits have fingered these valves as a factor in previous blowouts. snip After the accident, BP CEO Tony Hayward said of blowout preventers in general: "It's unprecedented for it to fail." Yet the AP review turned up instances where preventer seals have failed outright, obstructions have blocked them, or valves simply weren't designed for the task. Sometimes there were blowouts. The control systems also have proved goof-prone. When a worker accidentally disconnected a blowout preventer at one rig in 2000, federal regulators recommended changes in the control panels. Later that year, a worker at a rig off the Louisiana coast was making those very changes when he accidentally pushed the wrong button - and unlatched the valves; the ensuing blowout released 8,400 gallons of crude. The government has long known of such problems, according to a historical review conducted by the AP. In the late 1990s, the industry appealed for fewer required pressure tests on these valves. The federal minerals service did two studies, each finding that failures were more common than the industry said. But the agency, known as MMS, then did its turnaround and required tests half as often. It estimated that the rule would yield an annual savings of up to $340,000 per rig. An industry executive praised the "flexibility" of regulators, long plagued with accusations that it has been too cozy with the industry it supervises. Laurence Power, of Robert Gordon University in Aberdeen, Scotland, an engineering teacher who has studied these valves in offshore oil wells, said he has "not been able to see their logic" for reducing the frequency of testing. In 1999, right after that rule change, an MMS-commissioned report by a research group identified 117 blowout preventer failures at deepwater rigs within the previous year. These breakdowns created 3,638 hours of lost time - a 4 percent chunk of drilling time. In 2004, an engineering study for federal regulators said only 3 of 14 new devices could shear pipe, as sometimes required to check leaks, at maximum rated depths. Only half of operators accepting a newly built device tested this function during commissioning or acceptance, according to the report. snip Two years later, a trade journal's article still noted that shearing preventers "may also have difficulty cutting today's high-strength, high toughness drill pipe" at deep wells. The special cutting preventers were blamed in 1979 for the biggest peacetime well spill in history, when about 140 million gallons of oil poured from a Mexican well in the Gulf. Questions about reliability hung heavily but were mostly unspoken Thursday at a Houston conference on offshore oil rig technology. Shown a spreadsheet of problems with blowout preventers, Transocean technology manager John Kozicz said, "We know that - but they don't happen frequently." Even Transocean's Earl Shanks, lead author of the 2003 study reporting "poor BOP reliability," now views blowout preventers as "very reliable." But he did acknowledge problems in the complex electronic and hydraulic tangle that activates and controls the devices. At Deepwater Horizon, he said, "Something went wrong - and we don't know what." snip Cameron International, which made the Deepwater Horizon preventers, has acknowledged that these lumbering emergency stoppers need lots of upkeep. "You have to maintain it," CEO Jack Moore told investors last year. "You have to replace the mechanical and rubber elements." snip -- -- Unka George (George McDuffee) ............................... The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953). |
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