Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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On 5/2/2010 9:46 PM, Gerald Miller wrote:

(...)

Like the Lumina APV driver's door exterior handle


(...)

I told the clerk to put it back on the shelf
and I would repair the broken one. He looked at me as if I had four
ears but sarcastically wished me luck. Back home I drilled and tapped
the post and reassembled the mechanism with a 5M cap screw + lock
tight. No more problems until the vehicle was written off 7 years
latter.



Two RCM attaboys, Gerry!

--Winston
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On Mon, 03 May 2010 00:46:22 -0400, the infamous Gerald Miller
scrawled the following:

On Sun, 2 May 2010 21:54:27 -0700, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Winston" wrote in message
...
Was at the hardware store looking for a wheeled plastic
trash can for yard cleanup. There was only one that
matched my size requirement. Pulled it off the shelf
and one of the wheels fell off!

The end of the axle was dinged and apparently
would not allow the 'top hat' nut to stay fixed.
Figured I could fix it, so I bought it.

Drilled and tapped the end of the axle for 1/4-20 and
parted off a piece of tubing to make a spacer. Wheel
back on with a machine screw, washer and spacer.

It works a treat and I am *much* happier than I have
a right to be!


You rich Californicators love getting that nickel discount, don't you?
titter


I have fixed more than one $1 garden cart, two wheel dolly, or wheeled
device for pennies in the shop. Some were actually a few bucks, but there
was always a profit at the next yard sale.


Ditto. And I never tell the seller how I'll fix it. They may have
more in the future and I don't want to encourage them to attempt
fixing other things I might want.


Like the Lumina APV driver's door exterior handle, a "bell crank" is
mounted to a pot metal post by peening over the end of a 5mm pivot on
top of the post, when the pivot snaps off, the handle just flops
around. Having a broken wrist at the time, and having replaced both
exterior handles previously (when the low strength casting bent out of
shape) at $27.00 each, I visited the nearest Chevy parts counter. When
he rang it up at $69.++, I told the clerk to put it back on the shelf
and I would repair the broken one. He looked at me as if I had four
ears but sarcastically wished me luck. Back home I drilled and tapped
the post and reassembled the mechanism with a 5M cap screw + lock
tight. No more problems until the vehicle was written off 7 years
latter.


Gerry, me lad, you've just led me to the discovery of why so many
people buy Chebbies: They _like_ the fact that their POS cars are
always breaking down because they're inescapably "fixers" at heart.
It gives them justification to buy more tools and use them often.
As is said in some 12-step circles, "Some are sicker than others."

Question: Will you buy a -new- Obamamobile in the future?

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist
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On Sun, 02 May 2010 22:42:10 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

On 5/2/2010 9:54 PM, Steve B wrote:
wrote in message
...
Was at the hardware store looking for a wheeled plastic
trash can for yard cleanup. There was only one that
matched my size requirement. Pulled it off the shelf
and one of the wheels fell off!

The end of the axle was dinged and apparently
would not allow the 'top hat' nut to stay fixed.
Figured I could fix it, so I bought it.

Drilled and tapped the end of the axle for 1/4-20 and
parted off a piece of tubing to make a spacer. Wheel
back on with a machine screw, washer and spacer.

It works a treat and I am *much* happier than I have
a right to be!


--Winston


I have fixed more than one $1 garden cart, two wheel dolly, or wheeled
device for pennies in the shop. Some were actually a few bucks, but there
was always a profit at the next yard sale.


Yup. I don't know about others but I experience a disproportionate
'warm and fuzzy' feeling when I repair something like that.


We're the original recyclers, before all the enviros got involved.


It's the same deal in fixing flat tires


Isn't it amazing how the air just seems to know where to go, and does
so? The flat part of the tire always gets filled first.


or the odd garage door opener for neighbors.


Whoa, man. That must be a lot larger than a beer bottle opener.


If I could find a way to bottle that feeling, I would be
very wealthy indeed.


The Chinese discovered the poppy way long ago, sir.


P.S: And if you believe those lines above (other than the first, which
is actually true) I have some very moist, fertile land in Flowda to
sell to you. http://fwd4.me/MSV

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist
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On Sun, 02 May 2010 22:31:02 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

On 5/2/2010 2:50 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
On May 2, 2:28 pm, wrote:
Was at the hardware store looking for a wheeled plastic
trash can for yard cleanup. There was only one that
matched my size requirement. Pulled it off the shelf
and one of the wheels fell off!

The end of the axle was dinged and apparently
would not allow the 'top hat' nut to stay fixed.
Figured I could fix it, so I bought it.

Drilled and tapped the end of the axle for 1/4-20 and
parted off a piece of tubing to make a spacer. Wheel
back on with a machine screw, washer and spacer.

It works a treat and I am *much* happier than I have
a right to be!

--Winston


I'd be happy if I got it for half price with that hopelessly
unrepairable defect.


You are right, of course. I *should* have asked for a
discount. I was in a good mood though and the thought
just didn't occur at the time.


Turn in your Handyman Club of America card immediately, young man.

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist
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On 5/3/2010 6:36 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

(...)

wrote in message
...
Was at the hardware store looking for a wheeled plastic
trash can for yard cleanup. There was only one that
matched my size requirement. Pulled it off the shelf
and one of the wheels fell off!

The end of the axle was dinged and apparently
would not allow the 'top hat' nut to stay fixed.
Figured I could fix it, so I bought it.

Drilled and tapped the end of the axle for 1/4-20 and
parted off a piece of tubing to make a spacer. Wheel
back on with a machine screw, washer and spacer.

It works a treat and I am *much* happier than I have
a right to be!


You rich Californicators love getting that nickel discount, don't you?
titter


(?)

I paid full retail for a wheeled trash can that I knew was
broken at the time, just because I was happy to have
something to repair. The psychology behind this is left as
an exercise for the student.

Sorry, old bean. Can't quite cipher your jargon, Over.

--Winston


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On 5/3/2010 6:43 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 02 May 2010 22:42:10 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:


(...)

Yup. I don't know about others but I experience a disproportionate
'warm and fuzzy' feeling when I repair something like that.


We're the original recyclers, before all the enviros got involved.


Pappy was a recycler before recycling was cool.

It's the same deal in fixing flat tires


Isn't it amazing how the air just seems to know where to go, and does
so? The flat part of the tire always gets filled first.


Clearly God is on our side.

:P

or the odd garage door opener for neighbors.


Whoa, man. That must be a lot larger than a beer bottle opener.


You don't want to open that door right after an earthquake.
A bunch of Yugos squirt out all over your hands.

If I could find a way to bottle that feeling, I would be
very wealthy indeed.


The Chinese discovered the poppy way long ago, sir.


Validation!

P.S: And if you believe those lines above (other than the first, which
is actually true) I have some very moist, fertile land in Flowda to
sell to you. http://fwd4.me/MSV


Tell me they dropped the word 'gullible' from the dictionary and
I will believe you, because I am a Proud American Consumer.

--Winston
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On 5/3/2010 6:44 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 02 May 2010 22:31:02 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

On 5/2/2010 2:50 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:


(...)

I'd be happy if I got it for half price with that hopelessly
unrepairable defect.


You are right, of course. I *should* have asked for a
discount. I was in a good mood though and the thought
just didn't occur at the time.


Turn in your Handyman Club of America card immediately, young man.


Can I still use the Secret Handshake?

--Winston
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Winston wrote:

On 5/3/2010 6:44 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 02 May 2010 22:31:02 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

On 5/2/2010 2:50 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:


(...)

I'd be happy if I got it for half price with that hopelessly
unrepairable defect.

You are right, of course. I *should* have asked for a
discount. I was in a good mood though and the thought
just didn't occur at the time.


Turn in your Handyman Club of America card immediately, young man.


Can I still use the Secret Handshake?



Doesn't that require at least one missing finger?


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
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On Sun, 02 May 2010 22:42:10 -0700, Winston wrote:

[...]

Yup. I don't know about others but I experience a disproportionate
'warm and fuzzy' feeling when I repair something like that.
It's the same deal in fixing flat tires or the odd garage door
opener for neighbors.

If I could find a way to bottle that feeling, I would be
very wealthy indeed.

--Winston


Since you're in such a good mood... grin

Do you have any suggestions for repairing an old-ish city-provided
"supercan"? This is one of those large green plastic cans with
wheels, a hinged black lid, and bolted-on tubing that is designed to
be lifted by the city trash collection trucks. I'm not certain what
kind of plastic it is, but it's thick-ish (1/8"?), flexible, and I'm
assuming it's some sort of polyethylene.

For the most part the can is in great shape, but through a couple of
decades of being dragged rather than rolled the bottom front has
worn through. Since the abrasion is pretty much limited to the
front and a bit on the sides it hasn't started letting bags and
stuff drop out as it's being rolled, but I assume that will
eventually happen.

My first thought was sheet aluminium (Metal Content!!) tacked on
with pop rivets, and the bottom portion doubled over to add a bit
more wear protection. However, I'm concerned with how aluminium
would react with garbage leakage -- it might get eaten through
faster by organics than pavement weares it away.

I also have to be careful not to obstruct the "pickup" path up the
front of the can.

A smarter person would have called the Richmond DPU months ago, but
I look at it and see how much of it is still in good shape, and I
put off calling. I haven't had any luck finding sheet poly at the
local Home Depot or Lowes.

Any ideas? Or is this a Complete Waste of Time?


Frank McKenney
--
Indeed, the first step in applying someone's "optimal" formulation
is deciding if their "optimal" comes within the bounds of your
"good enough". -- Tim Wescott, in a comp.dsp post
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney ayut mined spring dawt cahm (y'all)
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Winston wrote:
Yup. I don't know about others but I experience a disproportionate
'warm and fuzzy' feeling when I repair something like that.

....

I 'spect that a much-larger-than-average proportion of RCM'ers feel that
way. I certainly do. Just the other day I got a broken recip saw from
a neighbor. Not because I need one - I have 2, & not because he wants
it fixed - he'd already bought a new one. Just because I was curious
about the failure (side-to-side blade motion) & if I could fix it.

Bob


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On Mon, 03 May 2010 14:01:36 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

Winston wrote:
Yup. I don't know about others but I experience a disproportionate
'warm and fuzzy' feeling when I repair something like that.

...

I 'spect that a much-larger-than-average proportion of RCM'ers feel that
way. I certainly do. Just the other day I got a broken recip saw from
a neighbor. Not because I need one - I have 2, & not because he wants
it fixed - he'd already bought a new one. Just because I was curious
about the failure (side-to-side blade motion) & if I could fix it.

Bob


Didcha fix it yet?

VBG

Gunner, who now has 4 recip saws aquired the same way.....all fixed


--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost
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Gunner Asch wrote:
Didcha fix it yet?


Not yet, but it's 3rd in line. Maybe 4th. Bob
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Gunner Asch wrote:
Bob Engelhardt wrote:
... Just the other day I got a broken recip saw from
a neighbor. ... I was curious
about the failure (side-to-side blade motion) & if I could fix it.


Didcha fix it yet?


Just did! And I don't think that I'll have the heart to tell my
neighbor what was wrong. The recip shaft rides in a "carrier tube
assembly" inside the front housing. That carrier tube is secured with a
screw on each side. One screw was loose, allowing the tube & shaft to
wobble side to side! Tightened it & I've got a Porter Cable Tiger saw
ready to go! (10A, variable speed, quick change blade holder.) If only
he had called me first.

Damn, that was satisfying,
Bob
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On Mon, 03 May 2010 06:59:36 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

On 5/3/2010 6:36 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:

(...)

wrote in message
...
Was at the hardware store looking for a wheeled plastic
trash can for yard cleanup. There was only one that
matched my size requirement. Pulled it off the shelf
and one of the wheels fell off!

The end of the axle was dinged and apparently
would not allow the 'top hat' nut to stay fixed.
Figured I could fix it, so I bought it.

Drilled and tapped the end of the axle for 1/4-20 and
parted off a piece of tubing to make a spacer. Wheel
back on with a machine screw, washer and spacer.


Yabbut, do you have one of these to do tubing cuts?
http://fwd4.me/MY6


It works a treat and I am *much* happier than I have
a right to be!


You rich Californicators love getting that nickel discount, don't you?
titter


(?)

I paid full retail for a wheeled trash can that I knew was
broken at the time, just because I was happy to have
something to repair. The psychology behind this is left as
an exercise for the student.


WTF? Teach isn't even asking for a discount when it would be quickly
and happily given by the Manager of the Drones? OK, the exercise I
just got was from shaking my head. Teacher's got it bad!


Sorry, old bean. Can't quite cipher your jargon, Over.


Yeah, I guessed that. I was chiding you on going after discount
items, then I read that you hadn't even done that.

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist
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On Mon, 03 May 2010 07:15:06 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

On 5/3/2010 6:44 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sun, 02 May 2010 22:31:02 -0700, the infamous Winston
scrawled the following:

On 5/2/2010 2:50 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:


(...)

I'd be happy if I got it for half price with that hopelessly
unrepairable defect.

You are right, of course. I *should* have asked for a
discount. I was in a good mood though and the thought
just didn't occur at the time.


Turn in your Handyman Club of America card immediately, young man.


Can I still use the Secret Handshake?


Not in public. You'll go blind!

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist


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Did he give you the saw to keep?

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in
message ...

Just did! And I don't think that I'll have the heart to
tell my
neighbor what was wrong. The recip shaft rides in a
"carrier tube
assembly" inside the front housing. That carrier tube is
secured with a
screw on each side. One screw was loose, allowing the tube
& shaft to
wobble side to side! Tightened it & I've got a Porter Cable
Tiger saw
ready to go! (10A, variable speed, quick change blade
holder.) If only
he had called me first.

Damn, that was satisfying,
Bob


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Default Repairing an abraded poly(?) trashcan (was: Having a...

On Mon, 03 May 2010 12:56:26 -0500, Frnak McKenney
wrote the following:

On Sun, 02 May 2010 22:42:10 -0700, Winston wrote:

[...]

Yup. I don't know about others but I experience a disproportionate
'warm and fuzzy' feeling when I repair something like that.
It's the same deal in fixing flat tires or the odd garage door
opener for neighbors.

If I could find a way to bottle that feeling, I would be
very wealthy indeed.

--Winston


Since you're in such a good mood... grin

Do you have any suggestions for repairing an old-ish city-provided
"supercan"? This is one of those large green plastic cans with
wheels, a hinged black lid, and bolted-on tubing that is designed to
be lifted by the city trash collection trucks. I'm not certain what
kind of plastic it is, but it's thick-ish (1/8"?), flexible, and I'm
assuming it's some sort of polyethylene.

For the most part the can is in great shape, but through a couple of
decades of being dragged rather than rolled the bottom front has
worn through. Since the abrasion is pretty much limited to the
front and a bit on the sides it hasn't started letting bags and
stuff drop out as it's being rolled, but I assume that will
eventually happen.


After the garbadj truck squoze mine too much and I detected vertical
cracks in it, I called the company and they replaced it a few days
later, free of charge. Won't your city do that?


My first thought was sheet aluminium (Metal Content!!) tacked on
with pop rivets, and the bottom portion doubled over to add a bit
more wear protection. However, I'm concerned with how aluminium
would react with garbage leakage -- it might get eaten through
faster by organics than pavement weares it away.


I rather doubt it, but that possibility exists. How often does your
garbage leak caustic fluids, Fwanky?


I also have to be careful not to obstruct the "pickup" path up the
front of the can.

A smarter person would have called the Richmond DPU months ago, but
I look at it and see how much of it is still in good shape, and I
put off calling. I haven't had any luck finding sheet poly at the
local Home Depot or Lowes.

Any ideas? Or is this a Complete Waste of Time?


CWOT, so I'll have Winston call you.

--
Courage is the power to let go of the familiar.
-- Raymond Lindquist
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Stormin Mormon wrote:
Did he give you the saw to keep?


Yep. Although I didn't take it to have, it is better than the corded
one that I have, so I will keep it if he still doesn't want it back.

Bob
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On 5/3/2010 5:48 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

(...)

Yabbut, do you have one of these to do tubing cuts?
http://fwd4.me/MY6


Ooooh!

(...)

WTF? Teach isn't even asking for a discount when it would be quickly
and happily given by the Manager of the Drones? OK, the exercise I
just got was from shaking my head. Teacher's got it bad!


Guilty, Yeronner.


Sorry, old bean. Can't quite cipher your jargon, Over.


Yeah, I guessed that. I was chiding you on going after discount
items, then I read that you hadn't even done that.


I was always a disappointment to you and Mom.

--Winston
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How about cut up some recycle boxes, and glue the plastic on
with Liquid Nails?

More seriously, call for replacement is the best idea going.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Frnak McKenney"
wrote in message
m...


Do you have any suggestions for repairing an old-ish
city-provided
"supercan"? This is one of those large green plastic cans
with
wheels, a hinged black lid, and bolted-on tubing that is
designed to
be lifted by the city trash collection trucks. I'm not
certain what
kind of plastic it is, but it's thick-ish (1/8"?), flexible,
and I'm
assuming it's some sort of polyethylene.

For the most part the can is in great shape, but through a
couple of
decades of being dragged rather than rolled the bottom front
has
worn through. Since the abrasion is pretty much limited to
the
front and a bit on the sides it hasn't started letting bags
and
stuff drop out as it's being rolled, but I assume that will
eventually happen.

My first thought was sheet aluminium (Metal Content!!)
tacked on
with pop rivets, and the bottom portion doubled over to add
a bit
more wear protection. However, I'm concerned with how
aluminium
would react with garbage leakage -- it might get eaten
through
faster by organics than pavement weares it away.

I also have to be careful not to obstruct the "pickup" path
up the
front of the can.

A smarter person would have called the Richmond DPU months
ago, but
I look at it and see how much of it is still in good shape,
and I
put off calling. I haven't had any luck finding sheet poly
at the
local Home Depot or Lowes.

Any ideas? Or is this a Complete Waste of Time?


Frank McKenney
--
Indeed, the first step in applying someone's "optimal"
formulation
is deciding if their "optimal" comes within the bounds of
your
"good enough". -- Tim Wescott, in a comp.dsp
post
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney ayut mined spring dawt
cahm (y'all)




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Any ideas? Or is this a Complete Waste of Time?


I just last month welded shut a large hole in the radiator overflow tank
of my SIL's Neon.

I cleaned and sanded the patch and the area around the hole with 80-grit
paper. Then I preheated both the patch and the tank area until both were
tacky and transparent (and beginning to sag), and applied the patch with
pressure until it cooled just enough to handle (used a stick and a wad of
paper towels down through the filler neck to apply pressure from the
inside, as well). Last, I "filleted" the edges of the patch to full-melt
down onto the tank body with a spreader tip on a big Weller soldering
gun, taking care not to cut into the tank material.

It is holding up fine so far, and it's under the abuse of hot fluids and
hot engine compartment. We examined the patch a few times with a
flashlight, and can't see any evidence of antifreeze leaking between
patch and tank wall.

Since your can isn't subject to pressure or extreme heat, I'd think just
an "overlay" of (say) 1/8" poly would do the trick; applied basically the
same way.

LLoyd
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Default Repairing an abraded poly(?) trashcan

On Tue, 04 May 2010 22:40:01 -0700, Winston
wrote the following:

On 5/3/2010 6:48 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:

(...)

Any ideas? Or is this a Complete Waste of Time?


CWOT, so I'll have Winston call you.


Why would you do that to Frank? Geeze.


Misery loves company?

P.S: Radiators are not made of polyethylene. NOTHING sticks to poly,
not even epoxy. Yeah, I thought of the HF plastic welder, but knew it
prolly wouldn't be large enough to work.

--
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian,
or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up
to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
--Thomas Paine
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On Mon, 03 May 2010 18:48:22 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 03 May 2010 12:56:26 -0500, Frnak McKenney
wrote the following:


[...]

Do you have any suggestions for repairing an old-ish city-provided
"supercan"? This is one of those large green plastic cans with
wheels, a hinged black lid, and bolted-on tubing that is designed to
be lifted by the city trash collection trucks. I'm not certain what
kind of plastic it is, but it's thick-ish (1/8"?), flexible, and I'm
assuming it's some sort of polyethylene.


[...]

After the garbadj truck squoze mine too much and I detected vertical
cracks in it, I called the company and they replaced it a few days
later, free of charge. Won't your city do that?


Presumably. On the other hand, why pass up a perfectly good chance
to gain some experience working with heavy-duty plastic? I'd much
rather learn something before I need it. grin!

My first thought was sheet aluminium (Metal Content!!) tacked on
with pop rivets, and the bottom portion doubled over to add a bit
more wear protection. However, I'm concerned with how aluminium
would react with garbage leakage -- it might get eaten through
faster by organics than pavement weares it away.


I rather doubt it, but that possibility exists. How often does your
garbage leak caustic fluids, Fwanky?


I know that the local wildlife ('possums and raccons) have, from
time to time, climbed up the side of this supercan, popped open the
lid, ripped my bags to shreds, and scattered the contents. And I
don't rinse (e.g.) every ice cream box before tossing it.

[...]

Any ideas? Or is this a Complete Waste of Time?


CWOT, so I'll have Winston call you.


Um... call me _what_? grin


Frank
--
If teachers now lack the knowledge they need to teach reading and
other subjects well, it is not because they are innately
incompetent but because they have been trained under faulty
romantic ideas about the nature of reading and the worthlessness
of "mere iformation". -- E.D. Hirsch, Jr./The Knowledge Deficit
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
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On Tue, 4 May 2010 10:18:32 -0400, Stormin Mormon wrote:
"Frnak McKenney" wrote in message
m...

Do you have any suggestions for repairing an old-ish city-provided
"supercan"? This is one of those large green plastic cans with
wheels, a hinged black lid, and bolted-on tubing that is designed
to be lifted by the city trash collection trucks. I'm not certain
what kind of plastic it is, but it's thick-ish (1/8"?), flexible,
and I'm assuming it's some sort of polyethylene.


How about cut up some recycle boxes, and glue the plastic on
with Liquid Nails?


Christopher,

Thanks for responding.

My own "recycle box" is provided by a local service. They already gave
me one new one this year when the old one vanished; I'm not sure how they
would respond to my sacrificing another to repair a DPU can. grin!

More seriously, call for replacement is the best idea going.


I may indeed wind up doing that. On the other hand, that route only
gives me experience in something I already know -- how to look things
up and how to use a telephone (or perhaps 'Web page these days).


Frank
--
The tendency to achieve our foreign policy objectives by inducing
other governments to sign up to professions of high moral and
legal principle appears to have a great and enduring vitality in
our diplomatic practice.
-- George F. Kennan / American Diplomacy 1900-1950
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
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On Tue, 04 May 2010 09:37:44 -0500, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

Any ideas? Or is this a Complete Waste of Time?


I just last month welded shut a large hole in the radiator overflow tank
of my SIL's Neon.

I cleaned and sanded the patch and the area around the hole with 80-grit
paper. Then I preheated both the patch and the tank area until both were
tacky and transparent (and beginning to sag), and applied the patch with
pressure until it cooled just enough to handle (used a stick and a wad of
paper towels down through the filler neck to apply pressure from the
inside, as well). Last, I "filleted" the edges of the patch to full-melt
down onto the tank body with a spreader tip on a big Weller soldering
gun, taking care not to cut into the tank material.

It is holding up fine so far, and it's under the abuse of hot fluids and
hot engine compartment. We examined the patch a few times with a
flashlight, and can't see any evidence of antifreeze leaking between
patch and tank wall.

Since your can isn't subject to pressure or extreme heat, I'd think just
an "overlay" of (say) 1/8" poly would do the trick; applied basically the
same way.


LLoyd,

Thank you for replying. You're a braver soul than I. grin!

It's very reassuring to hear from someone who has actually done something
similar to what I plan... especially the part about "holding up fine".
You also jarred my thinking a bit with the word "tank", so I did a bit of
searching on "patch plastic tank" and turned up all sorts of suggestions
and even kits.

Now all I need is a poly sheet perhaps 2'x1'. Any suggestions? For this
job even that "currogated" stuff would be fine.


Frakn
--
A striking fact of the last two years of financial trouble is how
accountability has differed in the public and private spheres. On
Wall Street and across the country, decades-old firms have failed,
fortunes have vanished, and some former captains of finance face
jail or fines. In Washington, meanwhile, most regulators and
Members of Congress remain on the job, often with enhanced power.
-- "Bernanke's Second Chance" / Wall Street Journal 08/26/09
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
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Default Repairing an abraded poly(?) trashcan

On Tue, 04 May 2010 22:28:39 -0700, Winston wrote:
On 5/3/2010 10:56 AM, Frnak McKenney wrote:


[...]

Since you're in such a good mood...grin

Do you have any suggestions for repairing an old-ish city-provided
"supercan"?


I would use my phone to repair that, Frank.


ROFL!

But thanks for the suggestion. Sometimes it's hard to remember which
size wrench is required to pound in the screw at hand. grin!

The garbage Co. that handles my area is very pro-active
and regularly repairs cans without any hassle at all.

If Richmond DPU doesn't return your call in a timely fashion,
you can consider hacking the can. (I have, but this is your nickle.)


If it looks like $50, I'm lazy enough to hand it off to the DPU; if it's
only $10 and some time, that's a minor Educational Expense. While I was
able to disprove polyethylene's claim to being "unbreakable" soon after
I first encountered it, I've never successfully repaired it.

As Lloyd says, there is apparently some hope of repair by welding
a thermoplastic patch. I've never done anything like that and
am *very* interested in your results.

As Larry says, try the easy cheap way first.

I bet there are 4 things on your 'to do' list that are more
entertaining than fixing the city's trash can, if'n you
don't have to, yes?


Well, there _is_ the project to rewire a set of solar-charged wlakway
"floodlamps" so they're motion-triggered, and a huge list of items that
are _much_ less interesting. But any repairs I do won't be for the City's
benefit, even if they gain a little by them.


Frank
--
A common hesitation in our day touching the use of extreme
convictions is a sort of notion that extreme convictions,
specially on cosmic matters, have been responsible in the past
for the thing which is called bigotry. But a very small amount of
direct experience will dissipate this view. In real life the
people who are most bigoted are the people who have no convictions
at all. ... Bigotry may roughly be defined as the frenzy of the
indifferent. This frenzy of the indifferent is in truth a terrible
thing; it has made all monstrous and widely pervading persecutions.
-- G.K. Chesterton: Concluding Remarks (1905)
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
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How about cut up some recycle boxes, and glue the plastic
on
with Liquid Nails?


Christopher,

Thanks for responding.

My own "recycle box" is provided by a local service. They
already gave
me one new one this year when the old one vanished; I'm not
sure how they
would respond to my sacrificing another to repair a DPU can.
grin!

CY: People throw away plastic items now and again. Ice
chests, or what not. Might be a source of plastic out there
some where.

More seriously, call for replacement is the best idea
going.


I may indeed wind up doing that. On the other hand, that
route only
gives me experience in something I already know -- how to
look things
up and how to use a telephone (or perhaps 'Web page these
days).

CY: I've not done a lot of plastic repairs in my life, and
don't expect to.



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Frnak McKenney fired this volley in
news
Now all I need is a poly sheet perhaps 2'x1'. Any suggestions? For this
job even that "currogated" stuff would be fine.


I get many square feet a year of 3/16" black polyethylene from a local boat
builder who routes out dash panels from it. Some of the "drops" have
sections as large as 2x3', but are useless to him because of the geometry
of his dashboards.

Any plastics dealer will have it, as do McMaster-Carr and MSC.

LLoyd
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On May 5, 9:38*am, Frnak McKenney
wrote:
On Mon, 03 May 2010 18:48:22 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 03 May 2010 12:56:26 -0500, Frnak McKenney
wrote the following:


* *[...]

Do you have any suggestions for repairing an old-ish city-provided
"supercan"? *This is one of those large green plastic cans with
wheels, a hinged black lid, and bolted-on tubing that is designed to
be lifted by the city trash collection trucks. *I'm not certain what
kind of plastic it is, but it's thick-ish (1/8"?), flexible, and I'm
assuming it's some sort of polyethylene.


Could be polyethylene, but chances are it's polypropylene or even ABS,
totally different stuff. There'll be a three-lobed recyling emblem
cast into it somewhere that will have the number of the plastic type.
As far as repairing cracks, welding is about the surest way to do
that, HF has a kit that requires some air and the rods to go with, of
various plastic types. I've repaired an aftermarket windshield washer
tank of polypropylene using a really big soldering gun and some
shopping bags of the same color. It held afterwards for quite a
number of years until I sold the car. More like frosting a cake than
welding, though. Adhesives, unless they're specially formulated,
probably won't stick. You might be able to add a skid plate with
aluminum and pop rivets, chances are that the stuff will crack at the
holes, though. If you've had to buy the thing yourself, fix it,
otherwise call the city and get it replaced, that's what you're paying
taxes for, right? They'll recycle the old one.

Stan
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Default Repairing an abraded poly(?) trashcan (was: Having a...

On Wed, 05 May 2010 10:38:57 -0500, Frnak McKenney
wrote the following:

On Mon, 03 May 2010 18:48:22 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:
After the garbadj truck squoze mine too much and I detected vertical
cracks in it, I called the company and they replaced it a few days
later, free of charge. Won't your city do that?


Presumably. On the other hand, why pass up a perfectly good chance
to gain some experience working with heavy-duty plastic? I'd much
rather learn something before I need it. grin!


So ask the company the City uses for broken scraps and practice on
those...for next time.


My first thought was sheet aluminium (Metal Content!!) tacked on
with pop rivets, and the bottom portion doubled over to add a bit
more wear protection. However, I'm concerned with how aluminium
would react with garbage leakage -- it might get eaten through
faster by organics than pavement weares it away.


I rather doubt it, but that possibility exists. How often does your
garbage leak caustic fluids, Fwanky?


I know that the local wildlife ('possums and raccons) have, from
time to time, climbed up the side of this supercan, popped open the
lid, ripped my bags to shreds, and scattered the contents. And I
don't rinse (e.g.) every ice cream box before tossing it.


Drill a couple holes and mount a slab of iron on the lid so they can't
lift it. It still works upside down in the garbadj truck.


[...]

Any ideas? Or is this a Complete Waste of Time?


CWOT, so I'll have Winston call you.


Um... call me _what_? grin


That all depends on what mood Winnie is in when he calls.

--
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian,
or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up
to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
--Thomas Paine


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Default Repairing an abraded poly(?) trashcan

On 5/5/2010 9:27 AM, Frnak McKenney wrote:
On Tue, 04 May 2010 22:28:39 -0700, wrote:
On 5/3/2010 10:56 AM, Frnak McKenney wrote:


[...]

Since you're in such a good mood...grin

Do you have any suggestions for repairing an old-ish city-provided
"supercan"?


I would use my phone to repair that, Frank.


ROFL!

But thanks for the suggestion. Sometimes it's hard to remember which
size wrench is required to pound in the screw at hand.grin!


That's why I have all four sizes of Crescent Hammer.

(...)

I bet there are 4 things on your 'to do' list that are more
entertaining than fixing the city's trash can, if'n you
don't have to, yes?


Well, there _is_ the project to rewire a set of solar-charged wlakway
"floodlamps" so they're motion-triggered, and a huge list of items that
are _much_ less interesting.


But still *much more interesting* than repairing the can, yes?
You see where I'm going with this?

But any repairs I do won't be for the City's
benefit, even if they gain a little by them.


Hey go for it, Frank!
I've put repairs and modifications on my City - supplied trash can so
I really have no moral authority to advise you not to.
Please post your pictures to the dropbox.

One of my modifications *improved the balance* of the can on landing.
We speak with one voice WRT fixing other people's stuff.


--Winston


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Stan,

Thanks for the reply.

On Wed, 5 May 2010 11:45:35 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On May 5, 9:38*am, Frnak McKenney
wrote:
On Mon, 03 May 2010 18:48:22 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 03 May 2010 12:56:26 -0500, Frnak McKenney
wrote the following:


* *[...]

Do you have any suggestions for repairing an old-ish city-provided
"supercan"? *This is one of those large green plastic cans with
wheels, a hinged black lid, and bolted-on tubing that is designed to
be lifted by the city trash collection trucks. *I'm not certain what
kind of plastic it is, but it's thick-ish (1/8"?), flexible, and I'm
assuming it's some sort of polyethylene.


Could be polyethylene, but chances are it's polypropylene or even ABS,
totally different stuff.


Um. I went and checked the can over a bit more carefully. It's a
"Zarn Roll-a-Cart", made by a company in Reidsville, North Carolina;
unfortunately the company was bought up and then disappeared, and
but I haven't had any success in finding out exactly what material
this can... er, "cart" is made of.

... There'll be a three-lobed recyling emblem
cast into it somewhere that will have the number of the plastic type.


Nope. That would have been really nice, though.

I think you're right about it not being polyethylene, which I recall
as a glossy, single-layer material. This stuff is more of a matte
surface that feels... "dusty" and "greyish".

As far as repairing cracks, welding is about the surest way to do
that, HF has a kit that requires some air and the rods to go with, of
various plastic types.


Agh. I know where Harbor Freight is, but I'm starting to avoid it:
every time I go down there for X I wind up with the whole last half
of the alphabet. If I could sell the wind power generated by money
whooshing out of my wallet when I visit HF, I could retire. HF and
book stores: dangerous places. grin!

... I've repaired an aftermarket windshield washer
tank of polypropylene using a really big soldering gun and some
shopping bags of the same color. It held afterwards for quite a
number of years until I sold the car. More like frosting a cake than
welding, though.


Interesting imagery, though. grin

... Adhesives, unless they're specially formulated,
probably won't stick. You might be able to add a skid plate with
aluminum and pop rivets, chances are that the stuff will crack at the
holes, though.


Ah. Something I hadn't considered. Thanks.

... If you've had to buy the thing yourself, fix it,
otherwise call the city and get it replaced, that's what you're paying
taxes for, right? They'll recycle the old one.


Naah, I pay them taxes to provide me with educational materials for
my 30-year Independent Study Program in Materials Science. grin!


Frank
--
...[u]nless a man is in part a humorist, he is only in part a man.
-- G.K. Chesterton: Mr. McCabe and a Divine Frivolity (1905)
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
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On Wed, 05 May 2010 21:41:31 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 05 May 2010 10:38:57 -0500, Frnak McKenney
wrote the following:

On Mon, 03 May 2010 18:48:22 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:
After the garbadj truck squoze mine too much and I detected vertical
cracks in it, I called the company and they replaced it a few days
later, free of charge. Won't your city do that?


Presumably. On the other hand, why pass up a perfectly good chance
to gain some experience working with heavy-duty plastic? I'd much
rather learn something before I need it. grin!


So ask the company the City uses for broken scraps and practice on
those...for next time.


Nice thought. Unfortunately, the manufacturer (a Zarn, Inc. of
Reidsville, North Carolina) appears to have gone out of business.

[...]

I know that the local wildlife ('possums and raccons) have, from
time to time, climbed up the side of this supercan, popped open the
lid, ripped my bags to shreds, and scattered the contents. And I
don't rinse (e.g.) every ice cream box before tossing it.


Drill a couple holes and mount a slab of iron on the lid so they can't
lift it. It still works upside down in the garbadj truck.


Ouch! I can see the headline now: "Class Action Suit Filed on
Behalf of Park Animals; Seeks 10M Damages for Malicious Wounding!".
grin!

Interestingly, even though my house is closer to the James River
Park than most on the street, my can seems to have less plastic
gnawed off the cart's edges.


Frank
--
Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass;
it's about learning how to dance in the rain.
--Anon
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
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On Wed, 05 May 2010 11:34:13 -0500, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Frnak McKenney fired this volley in
news
Now all I need is a poly sheet perhaps 2'x1'. Any suggestions? For this
job even that "currogated" stuff would be fine.


I get many square feet a year of 3/16" black polyethylene from a local boat
builder who routes out dash panels from it. Some of the "drops" have
sections as large as 2x3', but are useless to him because of the geometry
of his dashboards.

Any plastics dealer will have it, as do McMaster-Carr and MSC.

LLoyd


Thanks for the pointer. It turns out that I was wrong on the "cart"
being polyethylene, although I haven't figured out exactly what it
_is_ yet. I know it does crack -- there is one small one where a
bolt holds the belly-band lift support tubing in place -- and the
color and surface have a "weathered" appearance. I need to make
sure that whatever adhesive I use will adhere to both the cart and
the patching material.


Frank
--
[W]hy is it that men men who seem so keen on reforming the
world equip themselves with the worst possible philosophies
for doing it?
-- G.K. Chesterton: On Algernon Charles Swinburne (1932)
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
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Frnak McKenney wrote:

Nice thought. Unfortunately, the manufacturer (a Zarn, Inc. of
Reidsville, North Carolina) appears to have gone out of business.



Zarn Inc 13326 Scenic Glade DR Houston, TX, 77059


Description:
ZARN Inc in Houston, TX serves customers.We offer services in Garbage
Containers.We specialize in Garbage Containers.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.


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On Mon, 10 May 2010 08:22:01 -0500, Frnak McKenney
wrote:

30-year Independent Study Program in Materials Science. grin!



Oooooh! I Like that!!!!!!


Gunner

--


"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.

This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost
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Frnak McKenney fired this volley
in :

Thanks for the pointer. It turns out that I was wrong on the "cart"
being polyethylene, although I haven't figured out exactly what it
_is_ yet. I know it does crack -- there is one small one where a
bolt holds the belly-band lift support tubing in place -- and the
color and surface have a "weathered" appearance.


I'm not sure what you've described rules out polyethylene. PE oxidizes
and is deteriorated by sunlight. When it does, it achieves that
"weathered" appearance - rough, grey, pourous, dusty - and begins to
crack easily.

So... what else make you suppose it isn't PE? It should have a recycling
stamp somewhere on the bottom indicating which one of several general
types of plastic it is. If it's PE, it will say so; same for
polypropylene. Mixed resins will carry a number.

LLoyd
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