Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
Reply |
|
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#41
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
OT- Pension funds
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 22:47:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 11:06:08 -0500, the infamous F. George McDuffee scrawled the following: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 06:58:25 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote: snip It appears under ERSIA and the PBGC, some of the pension obligations of these local/state governments may fall back on the American taxpayers in the case of bankruptcy/conservatorship, at least up to the PBGC limits. It all depends how the state/local governmental pension plans are legally structured and controlled. FWIW -- it appears that many of these plans have been "skimmed" and "looted" just like the private pension plans. And we haven't heard of a clubbing, shooting, hanging, or tar-and-feathering of these folks yet. Interesting. snip ============= While this would offer a large amount of satisfaction to many people, in the overall scheme of things, this would accomplish nothing, in that the basic/foundational problem of spending [promising] more than the [falling] governmental income can possibly cover is not addressed. Are you sure, Unk? the replacement folks might be a bit more polite to the public in their fiscal actions. It is well to remember that the responsibility/accountability for this problem has become so diffused that no one, other than possibly some long-term elected officials and the scam artists who work with them, can be held personally accountable. Govvy members 1-525 sign bill, Govvy members 1-525 are responsible. The O assigns Cabinet Member 1-5, all of whom cheat on their taxes. All 6 are guilty of something. Period. It ain't rocket science, Unk. It may well be that there is no "cure" in the sense that what we are seeing is the natural evolution/development of human created organizations. Old age and death are not pathological conditions for living things, just the final phase, and this appears to also be the case for artificial human constructs such as "government." Ooh, don't say that. shiver It does however appear that certain legislative actions would be very helpful such as prescribing the maximum and minimum numbers of governmental employees by function as a fraction of the served population, minimum and maximum service levels for different types/classes of governments, such as public safety, social services and education, per capita spending caps adjusted for inflation, minimum population, etc. Other useful limitations could include min/max limits on the size of the municipal governmental units by both land area and population. Absolutely. One of the more critical areas is the enactment of laws mandating the reconstitution of bankrupt municipal/county governments, possibly at a *MUCH* lower level of services and expenditures, with the total replacement of existing elected and appointed officials, *AFTER* a period of direct state control with full forensic audits and formal legal investigation to determine exactly what went wrong (and where the money went). "Who to hang" audits, wot? It would appear that considerable improvement in debt management could also be obtained by requiring a minimum of three bona fide bids on governmental bond issuance, and the prohibition of credit default and interest rate swaps, for federal tax exemption of the municipal bond interest income. Another improvement would be the replacement of the "custom" or "bespoke" municipal bond contracts with a plain vanilla contract with standardized terms and conditions. This would eliminate a considerable legal expense and make the bidding process much easier. They could also do away with highest possible union member (maximum possible spending) on wages for every public job. I'd have to hire people (laborers!) at twice -my- going rate to do any govvy construction jobs because some useless Union idiot in Portland is making that. When pigs fly.... After Gunner's Cull? There will be many job openings then. At least for dozer operators. VBG Gunner --- A book burrows into your life in a very profound way because the experience of reading is not passive. --Erica Jong "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost |
#42
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
OT- Pension funds
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 02:46:51 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch
scrawled the following: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 22:47:34 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 11:06:08 -0500, the infamous F. George McDuffee scrawled the following: When pigs fly.... After Gunner's Cull? There will be many job openings then. At least for dozer operators. VBG And quicklime plant workers, ah reckon? --- A book burrows into your life in a very profound way because the experience of reading is not passive. --Erica Jong |
#43
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
OT- Pension funds
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 22:47:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote: snip One of the more critical areas is the enactment of laws mandating the reconstitution of bankrupt municipal/county governments, possibly at a *MUCH* lower level of services and expenditures, with the total replacement of existing elected and appointed officials, *AFTER* a period of direct state control with full forensic audits and formal legal investigation to determine exactly what went wrong (and where the money went). "Who to hang" audits, wot? snip ========= While this is one possible outcome, the intention is to determine what went wrong, not who did wrong. As it stands, all we know for sure from the available information is that something has and is going very wrong. It appears astrologers make poor investment advisors [ala Orange county, California]. It should be noted that the astrologers involved may have been very good astrologers, and very good moral people, but the results were still a disaster, so better and/or more moral astrologers is most likely not the answer, nor would tarot readers be any better. http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=5326,5062430 http://news.google.com/newspapers?ni...g=6526,5240309 http://www.worldfreeinternet.net/news/nws25.htm To be sure, it appears that the reason(s) are obvious, but this is unavoidably filtered through ideological lenses. The fact this keeps occurring indicates that either the actual causes have not been identified and/or the correct legal prohibitions, proscriptions and prescriptions have not yet been enacted and/or enforced. An analogy is public health. Until the causes of the pandemics were identified [germ theory of disease] and basic changes made, e.g. the public supply of safe drinking water, sanatation/trash removal and pure food laws, the "morality" of the people involved had little to no effect. Unka George (George McDuffee) ............................... The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953). |
#44
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
OT- Pension funds
On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 06:23:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Sat, 17 Apr 2010 02:46:51 -0700, the infamous Gunner Asch scrawled the following: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 22:47:34 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote: On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 11:06:08 -0500, the infamous F. George McDuffee scrawled the following: When pigs fly.... After Gunner's Cull? There will be many job openings then. At least for dozer operators. VBG And quicklime plant workers, ah reckon? Nah...simply put em into the ground with a dozer, bury em deep and in only a few years...the trees and grass and flowers are bright and tall and pretty. Quicklime tends to prevent proper plant growth. Gunner --- A book burrows into your life in a very profound way because the experience of reading is not passive. --Erica Jong "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost |
#45
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
OT- Pension funds
On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 17:16:26 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote: snip There was an interesting piece recently about some podunk town and their new waste treatment plant. I can't remember where I saw it but it had to do with the scams (all legal) that were run on local governments. In the instance I viewed, several city council members might end up in jail. snip ============ This appears to be a worldwide phonomania. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...ZKX1WJo&pos=15 snip April 15 (Bloomberg) -- The worst global financial crisis in 70 years arrived in Saint-Etienne this month, as embedded financial obligations began to blow up. A bill came due for 1.18 million euros ($1.61 million) owed to Deutsche Bank AG under a contract that initially saved the French city money. The 800-year-old town refused to pay, dodging for now one of 10 derivatives so speculative no bank will buy them back, said Cedric Grail, the municipal finance director. They would cost about 100 million euros to cancel today, he said. “It’s a joke that we’re in markets like this,” said Grail, 38, from the 19th-century city hall fronted by an arched facade and the words Liberte, Egalite, Fraternite. “We’re playing the dollar against the Swiss franc until 2042.” snip =========== FWIW -- history appears to be repeating itself. The great depression occurred in 2 waves in the United States. First there was the bursting of the domestic stock market bubble, and then as recovery from this was starting, the international finance bubble burst, starting with the default of a number of municipal bonds in Germany (largely sold because of the U.S. Dawes and Young plans) which exposed the entire global flim-flam and toppled the world's financial structure, which in many cases did not recover until after WW2. Indeed, the case can be made the global financial structure never "recovered," but rather the weaker participants simply died off, much as the bubonic plagues in Europe ended when everyone susceptible to the plague had died. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dawes_Plan snip The Dawes Plan did rely on money given to Germany by the US. The German economic state was one in which careful footing was required, and the Dawes plan was of the nature that only with the unrelated help of loans from the US could it succeed. snip The Dawes Plan provided short term economic benefits to the German economy. It softened the burdens of war reparations, stabilized the currency, and brought increased foreign investments and loans to the German market. However, it made the German economy dependent on foreign markets and economies, and therefore problems with the U.S. economy (e.g. the Great Depression) would later severely hurt Germany as it did the rest of the western world, which was subject to debt repayments for loans of American dollars. After World War I, this cycle of money from U.S. loans to Germany, which then made reparations to other European nations, which then used the money to pay off their debts to America, locked the western world's economy on that of the U.S. snip http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Young_Plan and a new word for most of us -- disaccumulation [first cousin to deflation, which may morph into deaccumulation]. http://hnn.us/articles/43038.html {written 09-24-07} snip Ahem. Accumulation of capital happens insofar as any increase in goods production and labor productivity—in a word, growth—requires net additions to the capital stock and the labor force, as in the period 1800-1920. Disaccumulation happens when economic growth occurs without these additions, and indeed proceeds as a function of declining net investment, as in the period 1920-present. There, I said it. Declining net investment? How so? Gross investment is composed of replacement and maintenance of the existing capital stock, plus net additions to the capital stock. Disaccumulation happens when the mere replacement and maintenance of that capital stock is sufficient to fuel economic growth on an astonishing scale. Now, the implications are pretty weird. On the one hand, human labor is extricated from the goods-productions process. The horizon of socially necessary labor recedes, and the class position once enacted by the industrial proletariat becomes increasingly difficult to articulate. So class consciousness gives way to other forms of identity in the 1920s and after. On the other hand, the deferral of consumption, which presupposes increased savings, is no longer the condition of increased production—of growth. Consumption now becomes the condition of growth because net investment becomes unnecessary. And so the deferral of gratification—saving for a rainy day—leads to economic crisis. Uh oh. As Stuart Chase exclaimed in 1934, “a whole moral fabric is thus rent and torn.” The Great Depression of the 1930s was the first crisis caused by the disaccumulation of capital. In the 1920s, consumer durables—automobiles, sure, but also radios, vacuum cleaners, refrigerators—were already the key to growth, the new “industrial blocs” that substituted for saving and thus offset declining net investment. And already they were financed with the extraordinary novelty of consumer credit, or “installment debt,” which tripled in the decade (consumer debt on car payments meanwhile increased 500%, as individual savings fell by half). At the same moment, in the industrial sector, capital costs were declining rapidly even as productivity was increasing sharply. Just one example. In oil refining, straight-run distillation of petroleum was replaced by “continuous thermal cracking” in the 1920s. The new process quadrupled the yield of gasoline per barrel of crude, and yet cut refinery construction costs in half. Similar innovation happened elsewhere in manufacturing, particularly in the automobile industry, with two results. First, the replacement and maintenance of the existing capital stock were more than enough to increase productivity and output; in other words, net investment was unnecessary to fuel fantastic growth (64% increase in output for the decade). Second, the labor force engaged in goods production—manufacturing, construction, transportation—declined absolutely, not relatively, by about 1 million. No wonder labor’s share of national income was falling precipitously as corporate profits soared after 1922 (an increase of 62%). A shift to profits coincided with declining capital requirements in goods production—that is, with a shrinking field of remunerative outlets for domestic investment, and, for that matter, foreign investment (most of the Eurasian land mass was off limits to private enterprise in the 1920s due to revolutions, civil wars, radical social movements, or Herbert Hoover’s rulings at the Department of Commerce). That is why these profits, this surplus capital, flooded the stock market, especially after 1926, and fed into “high-end” consumption as well. Meanwhile, the income required to buy the increasing output of “low-end” consumer durables—the income now required to sustain growth as such—was declining as a consequence of the same shift to profits. That is why automobile sales and residential construction stalled after 1926. And that is why Paul Krugman is wrong to claim, in 2007, that “America has never before experienced a disconnect between overall economic performance and the fortunes of workers as complete as the last four years.” A very similar disconnect happened between 1926 and 1929. It was a perfect storm. The stock market bubble of the late-1920s and the financial crisis of 1929 were not random events unrelated to the “real economy.” They were the immediate results of the disaccumulation of capital, which disallowed growth via increasing domestic investment and thus forced higher profits into the stock market— there was no place else to put it, unless you wanted to buy German municipal bonds or Peruvian consuls or Florida real estate, each a kind of risky foreign investment. Fast forward to our own time. The housing bubble was the inevitable result of a savings glut that had no promising outlets except “securitized” (bundled) mortgages underwritten not by consumers’ income but by consumers’ debt. The surplus capital accumulated by corporations could not, in other words, be converted into “investment” except as a bet on rising prices in the housing market, which presupposed miraculous increases either in consumers’ income or consumers’ debt. There was no place else to put it. snip Unka George (George McDuffee) ............................... The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953). |
#46
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
OT- Pension funds
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Wes" wrote in message ... "azotic" wrote: There was an interesting piece recently about some podunk town and their new waste treatment plant. I can't remember where I saw it but it had to do with the scams (all legal) that were run on local governments. In the instance I viewed, several city council members might end up in jail. I think this is the story: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics..._main_street/1 A very intresting read. Sure was. If the story was true, there should be a RICO prosecution of the bank. Wes Wes, that's banks doing bank business. That's what freewheeling competition in the financial industry breeds. It's another case of market failure. And Matt Taibbi, as much as I love his writing, sometimes runs a little over the top with his interpretations of the facts. d8-) Ed, as far as financial journalism goes, have you followed the NPR "This American Life" / "Planet Money" Team reports about the crisis? Of particular note were "giant pool of money" http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...-Pool-of-Money Another Frightening Show About the Economy http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...ut-the-Economy Bad bank http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...e/375/bad-bank The watchmen http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...2/The-Watchmen And last weeks joint story with Pro publica on Magnetar http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...405/inside-job These guys seem to be doing a very thorough autopsy on what actually happened, and not looking for the easiest scapegoats. |
#47
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
OT- Pension funds
"Stuart Wheaton" wrote in message ... Ed Huntress wrote: "Wes" wrote in message ... "azotic" wrote: There was an interesting piece recently about some podunk town and their new waste treatment plant. I can't remember where I saw it but it had to do with the scams (all legal) that were run on local governments. In the instance I viewed, several city council members might end up in jail. I think this is the story: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics..._main_street/1 A very intresting read. Sure was. If the story was true, there should be a RICO prosecution of the bank. Wes Wes, that's banks doing bank business. That's what freewheeling competition in the financial industry breeds. It's another case of market failure. And Matt Taibbi, as much as I love his writing, sometimes runs a little over the top with his interpretations of the facts. d8-) Ed, as far as financial journalism goes, have you followed the NPR "This American Life" / "Planet Money" Team reports about the crisis? Of particular note were "giant pool of money" http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...-Pool-of-Money Another Frightening Show About the Economy http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...ut-the-Economy Bad bank http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...e/375/bad-bank The watchmen http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...2/The-Watchmen And last weeks joint story with Pro publica on Magnetar http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radi...405/inside-job These guys seem to be doing a very thorough autopsy on what actually happened, and not looking for the easiest scapegoats. They are, and I've seen a couple of them, but I just haven't had time to keep up. Thanks for reminding me, though. I'll try to catch up with them online. -- Ed Huntress |
#48
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
OT- Pension funds
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 13:19:16 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote: snip It continues to amaze me that corporations and government units contend they can do a better job of money management with part-time amateur help, political appointees, and minimal to no [use of] actuarial capabilities/techniques, than the dedicated insurance companies can do with their professional staffs, economies of scale, and generations of experience. There is no shortage of excellent actuaries in government. snip The problem is that while there are many excellent actuaries in government and industry, when they generate advice/projections that the elected officials, pension fund managers, and higher administrators don't like, they are ignored, and more palatable advice/projections are quickly obtained from actuarial firms that will tell you what you want to hear, even if this requires assuming a 15% compounded ROI, a "raging bull" stock market and the continued expansion of the real estate bubble. One example: http://www.sacbee.com/2010/04/11/267...nt-forget.html In most states, annuity and insurance companies do not have this option as their actuarial assumptions and calculations are continually monitored/checked/verified and their accounts audited by the regulatory agencies. Play fast and loose in these areas and the regulators will seize the company. Unka George (George McDuffee) ............................... The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953). |
#49
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
OT- Pension funds
F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 13:19:16 -0800, "John R. Carroll" wrote: snip It continues to amaze me that corporations and government units contend they can do a better job of money management with part-time amateur help, political appointees, and minimal to no [use of] actuarial capabilities/techniques, than the dedicated insurance companies can do with their professional staffs, economies of scale, and generations of experience. There is no shortage of excellent actuaries in government. snip The problem is that while there are many excellent actuaries in government and industry, when they generate advice/projections that the elected officials, pension fund managers, and higher administrators don't like, they are ignored, and more palatable advice/projections are quickly obtained from actuarial firms that will tell you what you want to hear, even if this requires assuming a 15% compounded ROI, a "raging bull" stock market and the continued expansion of the real estate bubble. One example: http://www.sacbee.com/2010/04/11/267...nt-forget.html In most states, annuity and insurance companies do not have this option as their actuarial assumptions and calculations are continually monitored/checked/verified and their accounts audited by the regulatory agencies. Play fast and loose in these areas and the regulators will seize the company. All that means is that voters have got to step up for a change and hold up their end of the bargain that is America. Crappy politicians are the result of crappy voters. -- John R. Carroll |
#50
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
OT- Pension funds
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 02:42:58 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote: On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 17:16:26 -0800, "John R. Carroll" wrote: Sometimes that's exactly what happens and sometimes not. There was an interesting piece recently about some podunk town and their new waste treatment plant. I can't remember where I saw it but it had to do with the scams (all legal) that were run on local governments. In the instance I viewed, several city council members might end up in jail. ========== Among others see Harrisburg PA. http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-correct-.html snip ======== Update on the Harrisburg soap opera. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=ab6OQc35weDI snip Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, which has missed $6 million in debt payments since Jan. 1, should consider seeking Chapter 9 bankruptcy protection, City Controller Dan Miller told a three-hour special committee hearing. Miller, the first of four people to testify last night in an “informational session” on insolvency convened by Gloria Martin-Roberts, council president, said bankruptcy may offer Harrisburg relief from $68 million in debt-service payments this year tied to a waste-to-energy incinerator project. snip Harrisburg, the capital of Pennsylvania, the sixth-most populous U.S. state, has guaranteed payments on $282 million in bonds on the incinerator, run by the Harrisburg Authority. The payments on the bonds and on a working-capital loan this year add up to four times the amount the city collects in property taxes each year, budget documents show. snip The city this month skipped a $637,500 payment due on a loan to Fairfield, New Jersey-based Covanta Holding Corp., operator of the incinerator. Missed Payment On April 23, the Harrisburg Authority told the city that it won’t make a $425,282 payment due May 1 on a $17 million bond issue the city has guaranteed, said Robert Kroboth, interim finance manager. Kroboth said it isn’t likely that the city will honor its guarantee, meaning the payment will fall to the bond’s insurer, Hamilton, Bermuda-based Assured Guaranty Municipal Corp. snip “It’s difficult to get into Chapter 9,” Miller said. He said Harrisburg would have to present a proposed debt relief plan to its creditors and get an endorsement from the state before it could seek bankruptcy. “You have to meet with the state Department of Economic and Community Development and convince them you are deserving of Chapter 9 protection,” Miller said. snip Unka George (George McDuffee) ............................... The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953). |
#51
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
OT- Pension funds
"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message ... On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 02:42:58 -0500, F. George McDuffee wrote: On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 17:16:26 -0800, "John R. Carroll" wrote: Sometimes that's exactly what happens and sometimes not. There was an interesting piece recently about some podunk town and their new waste treatment plant. I can't remember where I saw it but it had to do with the scams (all legal) that were run on local governments. In the instance I viewed, several city council members might end up in jail. ========== Among others see Harrisburg PA. http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-correct-.html snip ======== Update on the Harrisburg soap opera. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=ab6OQc35weDI snip Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, which has missed $6 million in debt payments since Jan. 1, should consider seeking Chapter 9 bankruptcy protection, City Controller Dan Miller told a three-hour special committee hearing. Miller, the first of four people to testify last night in an "informational session" on insolvency convened by Gloria Martin-Roberts, council president, said bankruptcy may offer Harrisburg relief from $68 million in debt-service payments this year tied to a waste-to-energy incinerator project. snip Harrisburg, the capital of Pennsylvania, the sixth-most populous U.S. state, has guaranteed payments on $282 million in bonds on the incinerator, run by the Harrisburg Authority. The payments on the bonds and on a working-capital loan this year add up to four times the amount the city collects in property taxes each year, budget documents show. snip The city this month skipped a $637,500 payment due on a loan to Fairfield, New Jersey-based Covanta Holding Corp., operator of the incinerator. Missed Payment On April 23, the Harrisburg Authority told the city that it won't make a $425,282 payment due May 1 on a $17 million bond issue the city has guaranteed, said Robert Kroboth, interim finance manager. Kroboth said it isn't likely that the city will honor its guarantee, meaning the payment will fall to the bond's insurer, Hamilton, Bermuda-based Assured Guaranty Municipal Corp. snip "It's difficult to get into Chapter 9," Miller said. He said Harrisburg would have to present a proposed debt relief plan to its creditors and get an endorsement from the state before it could seek bankruptcy. "You have to meet with the state Department of Economic and Community Development and convince them you are deserving of Chapter 9 protection," Miller said. snip Unka George (George McDuffee) So what happens if they can't pay the debt and they don't qualify for Chapter 9? Do the creditors come and tear up the streets? -- Ed Huntress |
#52
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
OT- Pension funds
F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 02:42:58 -0500, F. George McDuffee wrote: On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 17:16:26 -0800, "John R. Carroll" wrote: Sometimes that's exactly what happens and sometimes not. There was an interesting piece recently about some podunk town and their new waste treatment plant. I can't remember where I saw it but it had to do with the scams (all legal) that were run on local governments. In the instance I viewed, several city council members might end up in jail. ========== Among others see Harrisburg PA. http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-correct-.html snip ======== Update on the Harrisburg soap opera. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=ab6OQc35weDI snip Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, which has missed $6 million in debt payments since Jan. 1, should consider seeking Chapter 9 bankruptcy protection, City Controller Dan Miller told a three-hour special committee hearing. Miller, the first of four people to testify last night in an "informational session" on insolvency convened by Gloria Martin-Roberts, council president, said bankruptcy may offer Harrisburg relief from $68 million in debt-service payments this year tied to a waste-to-energy incinerator project. snip Harrisburg, the capital of Pennsylvania, the sixth-most populous U.S. state, has guaranteed payments on $282 million in bonds on the incinerator, run by the Harrisburg Authority. The payments on the bonds and on a working-capital loan this year add up to four times the amount the city collects in property taxes each year, budget documents show. snip The city this month skipped a $637,500 payment due on a loan to Fairfield, New Jersey-based Covanta Holding Corp., operator of the incinerator. Missed Payment On April 23, the Harrisburg Authority told the city that it won't make a $425,282 payment due May 1 on a $17 million bond issue the city has guaranteed, said Robert Kroboth, interim finance manager. Kroboth said it isn't likely that the city will honor its guarantee, meaning the payment will fall to the bond's insurer, Hamilton, Bermuda-based Assured Guaranty Municipal Corp. snip "It's difficult to get into Chapter 9," Miller said. He said Harrisburg would have to present a proposed debt relief plan to its creditors and get an endorsement from the state before it could seek bankruptcy. "You have to meet with the state Department of Economic and Community Development and convince them you are deserving of Chapter 9 protection," Miller said. snip They can also just stop paying their bills and let the creditors and the Courts force the issue. I think if it were me I'd just go ahead and file, daring the Court and the State to invoke any statutory bar. Screw them I say. It would be the equivalent of an underwater home owner sending jingle mail. LOL -- John R. Carroll |
#53
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
OT- Pension funds
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 16:23:11 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: "F. George McDuffee" wrote in message .. . On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 02:42:58 -0500, F. George McDuffee wrote: On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 17:16:26 -0800, "John R. Carroll" wrote: Sometimes that's exactly what happens and sometimes not. There was an interesting piece recently about some podunk town and their new waste treatment plant. I can't remember where I saw it but it had to do with the scams (all legal) that were run on local governments. In the instance I viewed, several city council members might end up in jail. ========== Among others see Harrisburg PA. http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-correct-.html snip ======== Update on the Harrisburg soap opera. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=ab6OQc35weDI snip Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, which has missed $6 million in debt payments since Jan. 1, should consider seeking Chapter 9 bankruptcy protection, City Controller Dan Miller told a three-hour special committee hearing. Miller, the first of four people to testify last night in an "informational session" on insolvency convened by Gloria Martin-Roberts, council president, said bankruptcy may offer Harrisburg relief from $68 million in debt-service payments this year tied to a waste-to-energy incinerator project. snip Harrisburg, the capital of Pennsylvania, the sixth-most populous U.S. state, has guaranteed payments on $282 million in bonds on the incinerator, run by the Harrisburg Authority. The payments on the bonds and on a working-capital loan this year add up to four times the amount the city collects in property taxes each year, budget documents show. snip The city this month skipped a $637,500 payment due on a loan to Fairfield, New Jersey-based Covanta Holding Corp., operator of the incinerator. Missed Payment On April 23, the Harrisburg Authority told the city that it won't make a $425,282 payment due May 1 on a $17 million bond issue the city has guaranteed, said Robert Kroboth, interim finance manager. Kroboth said it isn't likely that the city will honor its guarantee, meaning the payment will fall to the bond's insurer, Hamilton, Bermuda-based Assured Guaranty Municipal Corp. snip "It's difficult to get into Chapter 9," Miller said. He said Harrisburg would have to present a proposed debt relief plan to its creditors and get an endorsement from the state before it could seek bankruptcy. "You have to meet with the state Department of Economic and Community Development and convince them you are deserving of Chapter 9 protection," Miller said. snip Unka George (George McDuffee) So what happens if they can't pay the debt and they don't qualify for Chapter 9? Do the creditors come and tear up the streets? ======== Very good question!!! The Harrisburg homeowners and taxpayers must be pleased as punch with this development... It appears the bond insurance company will be on the hook to the bond holders, and it will then be up to them to squeeze some blood out of this particular turnip. This could get "sticky" if Assured Guaranty Municipal Corp. domiciled in Bermuda refuses to pay or "low balls" the claims as they are outside U.S. jurisdiction. Also unknown are the existance/amounts/terms of any CDSs on these bonds [bombs?]. It may well be the U.S. taxpayer will again take it in in the shorts when AIG has to pay off. Given that Harrisburg is the state capitol, it would seem appropriate to open a chain of bordellos, casinos and gin mills, possibly franchised from Nevada. Not only would this provide a considerable revenue stream, it would also provide considerable local employment. http://www.chickenranchbrothel.com/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_Ranch_%28Nevada%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Nevada Unka George (George McDuffee) ............................... The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953). |
#54
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
OT- Pension funds
"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message ... On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 16:23:11 -0400, "Ed Huntress" wrote: "F. George McDuffee" wrote in message . .. On Fri, 16 Apr 2010 02:42:58 -0500, F. George McDuffee wrote: On Thu, 15 Apr 2010 17:16:26 -0800, "John R. Carroll" wrote: Sometimes that's exactly what happens and sometimes not. There was an interesting piece recently about some podunk town and their new waste treatment plant. I can't remember where I saw it but it had to do with the scams (all legal) that were run on local governments. In the instance I viewed, several city council members might end up in jail. ========== Among others see Harrisburg PA. http://www.businessweek.com/news/201...-correct-.html snip ======== Update on the Harrisburg soap opera. http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...d=ab6OQc35weDI snip Harrisburg, Pennsylvania, which has missed $6 million in debt payments since Jan. 1, should consider seeking Chapter 9 bankruptcy protection, City Controller Dan Miller told a three-hour special committee hearing. Miller, the first of four people to testify last night in an "informational session" on insolvency convened by Gloria Martin-Roberts, council president, said bankruptcy may offer Harrisburg relief from $68 million in debt-service payments this year tied to a waste-to-energy incinerator project. snip Harrisburg, the capital of Pennsylvania, the sixth-most populous U.S. state, has guaranteed payments on $282 million in bonds on the incinerator, run by the Harrisburg Authority. The payments on the bonds and on a working-capital loan this year add up to four times the amount the city collects in property taxes each year, budget documents show. snip The city this month skipped a $637,500 payment due on a loan to Fairfield, New Jersey-based Covanta Holding Corp., operator of the incinerator. Missed Payment On April 23, the Harrisburg Authority told the city that it won't make a $425,282 payment due May 1 on a $17 million bond issue the city has guaranteed, said Robert Kroboth, interim finance manager. Kroboth said it isn't likely that the city will honor its guarantee, meaning the payment will fall to the bond's insurer, Hamilton, Bermuda-based Assured Guaranty Municipal Corp. snip "It's difficult to get into Chapter 9," Miller said. He said Harrisburg would have to present a proposed debt relief plan to its creditors and get an endorsement from the state before it could seek bankruptcy. "You have to meet with the state Department of Economic and Community Development and convince them you are deserving of Chapter 9 protection," Miller said. snip Unka George (George McDuffee) So what happens if they can't pay the debt and they don't qualify for Chapter 9? Do the creditors come and tear up the streets? ======== Very good question!!! The Harrisburg homeowners and taxpayers must be pleased as punch with this development... It appears the bond insurance company will be on the hook to the bond holders, and it will then be up to them to squeeze some blood out of this particular turnip. This could get "sticky" if Assured Guaranty Municipal Corp. domiciled in Bermuda refuses to pay or "low balls" the claims as they are outside U.S. jurisdiction. Also unknown are the existance/amounts/terms of any CDSs on these bonds [bombs?]. It may well be the U.S. taxpayer will again take it in in the shorts when AIG has to pay off. Given that Harrisburg is the state capitol, it would seem appropriate to open a chain of bordellos, casinos and gin mills, possibly franchised from Nevada. Not only would this provide a considerable revenue stream, it would also provide considerable local employment. http://www.chickenranchbrothel.com/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chicken_Ranch_%28Nevada%29 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prostitution_in_Nevada Unka George (George McDuffee) Ha-ha! That's creative financing, George. d8-) -- Ed Huntress |
#55
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
OT- Pension funds
Homeland Security Attorney Guilty In Bribery Scandal
Last Updated: Wed, 04/21/2010 - 1:59pm A senior attorney at the Homeland Security agency that enforces immigration laws and protects the U.S. against terrorist attacks has been convicted of three dozen corruption-related charges for posing as an immigration judge and accepting thousands of dollars in bribes from illegal aliens. The assistant chief counsel for U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement (Constantine Kallas) had already been indicted by a grand jury with 75 counts, including bribery, money laundering, federal worker’s compensation fraud and a series of other serious crimes related to accepting hefty cash bribes from dozens of foreigners seeking documents to stay in the U.S. This week a federal jury in Los Angeles found Kallas guilty of conspiracy, six counts of bribery, two counts of obstruction of justice, seven counts of fraud and misuse of entry documents, three counts of aggravated identity theft, nine counts of making false statements to the Department of Labor, four counts of making false statements to obtain federal employee compensation and four counts of tax evasion. The disgraced government official faces hundreds of years in prison. Kallas accepted bribes of as much as $20,000 in exchange for helping illegal immigrants who were often in the midst of deportation proceedings. He even took a $7,000 bribe from his housekeeper and got a smuggling case against her daughter dismissed. The crooked official also set up two fake companies and filed false employment petitions with the federal government for dozens of illegal immigrants. When federal agents searched his home they found a hidden floor safe with nearly $200,000 in cash and dozens of official immigration files. They also found a ledger with the names of more than 60 illegal immigrants and the amount they had paid to remain in the U.S. “legally.” Similar internal corruption has infested other Homeland Security agencies responsible for protecting the nation against foreign threats in the last few years. However, the problem has been most rampant on the front lines rather than the corporate offices like in this case. Corruption is so widespread among federal officers guarding the U.S.-Mexico border that the government created an internal web site devoted to recently convicted border agents. Dozens of U.S. Customs and Border Protection agents have been bribed with cash and attractive women to assure the safe passage of truckloads of illegal immigrants, drugs and other contraband into the U.S. "First Law of Leftist Debate The more you present a leftist with factual evidence that is counter to his preconceived world view and the more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot, homophobe approaches infinity. This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to the subject." Grey Ghost |
#56
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
OT- Pension funds
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 05:38:26 -0700, "John R. Carroll"
wrote: In most states, annuity and insurance companies do not have this option as their actuarial assumptions and calculations are continually monitored/checked/verified and their accounts audited by the regulatory agencies. Play fast and loose in these areas and the regulators will seize the company. All that means is that voters have got to step up for a change and hold up their end of the bargain that is America. Crappy politicians are the result of crappy voters. ============== Public -- private -- makes no difference. For one example of what happens when the actuaries tell the boss what s/he wants to hear: http://www.sacbee.com/2010/04/30/271...advertent.html Anthem Blue Cross admits 'inadvertent miscalculations' in rate hikes By Bobby Caina Calvan Published: Friday, Apr. 30, 2010 - 12:00 am | Page 1A Anthem Blue Cross used deeply flawed math and assumptions when it announced plans to hike premiums by as much as 39 percent for thousands of California subscribers, the Department of Insurance announced Thursday. Acknowledging that it had made "inadvertent miscalculations," the state's largest for-profit health insurer said it would withdraw its controversial rate filing. The company said it is considering re-submitting its filing as soon as next month but did not disclose specifics. The decision to withdraw its original proposal brings relief to more than 700,000 Blue Cross subscribers in California who buy health policies on their own. snip Insurance Commissioner Steve Poizner, a Republican running for governor, hired an outside actuary in February to investigate the proposed rate hike. "We found substantial mistakes," Poizner said, adding that the errors "would have led to massive and unjustified rate increases. We notified Anthem of these errors, and they admitted to the mistakes. snip ========= -- Unka George (George McDuffee) ............................... The past is a foreign country; they do things differently there. L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author. The Go-Between, Prologue (1953). |
#57
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
OT- Pension funds
F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Tue, 27 Apr 2010 05:38:26 -0700, "John R. Carroll" wrote: In most states, annuity and insurance companies do not have this option as their actuarial assumptions and calculations are continually monitored/checked/verified and their accounts audited by the regulatory agencies. Play fast and loose in these areas and the regulators will seize the company. All that means is that voters have got to step up for a change and hold up their end of the bargain that is America. Crappy politicians are the result of crappy voters. ============== Public -- private -- makes no difference. For one example of what happens when the actuaries tell the boss what s/he wants to hear: http://www.sacbee.com/2010/04/30/271...advertent.html Anthem Blue Cross admits 'inadvertent miscalculations' in rate hikes By Bobby Caina Calvan Published: Friday, Apr. 30, 2010 - 12:00 am | Page 1A Anthem Blue Cross used deeply flawed math and assumptions when it announced plans to hike premiums by as much as 39 percent for thousands of California subscribers, the Department of Insurance announced Thursday. Acknowledging that it had made "inadvertent miscalculations," the state's largest for-profit health insurer said it would withdraw its controversial rate filing. The company said it is considering re-submitting its filing as soon as next month but did not disclose specifics. The decision to withdraw its original proposal brings relief to more than 700,000 Blue Cross subscribers in California who buy health policies on their own. snip Insurance Commissioner Steve Poizner, a Republican running for governor, hired an outside actuary in February to investigate the proposed rate hike. "We found substantial mistakes," Poizner said, adding that the errors "would have led to massive and unjustified rate increases. We notified Anthem of these errors, and they admitted to the mistakes. snip ========= I think you've got it backwards George. The boss told their regulatory committee to go ahead and monkey around with the numbers so an increase in rates would be justified. They got caught. -- John R. Carroll |
#58
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
|
|||
|
|||
OT- Pension funds
On 2010-05-22, azotic wrote:
Everyone should be concerned. Goole has been harvesting Wifi data and MAC numbers from unsecured networks Where i live there are 6 unsecured wifi networks that i can log onto. One of them is an electrical contractors business. Scarry how careless small businesses can be. When asked for my SS# i ask why they need it, then i refuse. Google said it collected Wi-Fi network data, such as SSID (Service Set Identifier) information and MAC (Media Access Control) addresses. The company said it only collected fragments of personal Web traffic as its Wi-Fi equipment automatically changed channels five times a second. Wi-Fi networks can carry several megabytes of data per second. I would not worry, what bad can come out from a few packets collected by a passing car. There is software to crack WEP networks, I could crack up to 5 networks per hour, that's even scarier. i http://www.pcworld.com/article/19676..._google. html Google admitted in a blog post Friday that its Street View cars had unintentionally intercepted fragments of data from open Wi-Fi networks for periods of 200 milliseconds at a time. Google said that it didn't know that it was collecting or storing this information. The lawsuit asserts that Google willfully obtained and stored private information from personal Wi-Fi hotspots as its vehicles, equipped with cameras and "packet sniffers" drove around neighborhoods throughout Oregon. http://news.cnet.com/8301-30686_3-20005515-266.html Best Regards Tom. |
Reply |
|
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
#OT# Raiding the pension "trust funds" | Metalworking | |||
#OT# Raiding the pension "trust funds" | Metalworking | |||
#OT# Raiding the pension "trust funds" | Metalworking | |||
#OT# Raiding the pension "trust funds" | Metalworking | |||
OT - Where your pension? | Metalworking |