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OT -- off grid power systems
I'd like to chat offline with someone who has installed a solar
array system that feeds your load AND backfeeds to the grid {"meter backwards"}. And/or, I'm looking for a pointer to forums [formi??] centered around such. -- A host is a host from coast to & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 |
OT -- off grid power systems
David Lesher wrote:
I'd like to chat offline with someone who has installed a solar array system that feeds your load AND backfeeds to the grid {"meter backwards"}. And/or, I'm looking for a pointer to forums [formi??] centered around such. Weve been off grid for some 39 yrs. used diesels for power generation, on demand systems by Lister, called the startamatic set up. 5 yrs ago found 3 tons of nicad alkaline( sodium hydroxide ) batteries. so then invested in an 3kw "outback" US system of charger/inverter. Been in use for 6 months and has proved very efficient. Next step is to use one of our 6/1 diesels running on straight vegetable oil as a dc generator to eliminate the use of fossil fuel. Will need to make a suitable alternator aka windmill permanent magnet type. as for solar, this could be a possibility but due to the poor UK weatherm sunshine is not reliable enough for us. also the cost of connecting to our uk grid is prohibitive, due to the distance. Google for outback there the best right now for what you want. Ted Dorset uk |
OT -- off grid power systems
Ted Frater wrote:
David Lesher wrote: I'd like to chat offline with someone who has installed a solar array system that feeds your load AND backfeeds to the grid {"meter backwards"}. And/or, I'm looking for a pointer to forums [formi??] centered around such. Weve been off grid for some 39 yrs. used diesels for power generation, on demand systems by Lister, called the startamatic set up. 5 yrs ago found 3 tons of nicad alkaline( sodium hydroxide ) batteries. so then invested in an 3kw "outback" US system of charger/inverter. Been in use for 6 months and has proved very efficient. Next step is to use one of our 6/1 diesels running on straight vegetable oil as a dc generator to eliminate the use of fossil fuel. Will need to make a suitable alternator aka windmill permanent magnet type. as for solar, this could be a possibility but due to the poor UK weatherm sunshine is not reliable enough for us. also the cost of connecting to our uk grid is prohibitive, due to the distance. Google for outback there the best right now for what you want. Ted Dorset uk I though UK sunshine was measure in inches per hour...!!! I built a couple of the MEN style conventional wind turbines a few years ago. They work OK but I'm thinking of building a couple vertical vane units to eliminate many problems that you have with conventional wind turbines. No need for a wind vane or directional control. Should be able to put the actual generator at the base and use a simple shaft up to the vanes. MUCH easier service that way. With all the Amish around here now I might even have a market for them! Most of them use an automatic diesel system for the milk house to provide vacuum and cooling and air power. -- Steve W. |
OT -- off grid power systems
Steve W. wrote:
Ted Frater wrote: David Lesher wrote: I'd like to chat offline with someone who has installed a solar array system that feeds your load AND backfeeds to the grid {"meter backwards"}. And/or, I'm looking for a pointer to forums [formi??] centered around such. Weve been off grid for some 39 yrs. used diesels for power generation, on demand systems by Lister, called the startamatic set up. 5 yrs ago found 3 tons of nicad alkaline( sodium hydroxide ) batteries. so then invested in an 3kw "outback" US system of charger/inverter. Been in use for 6 months and has proved very efficient. Next step is to use one of our 6/1 diesels running on straight vegetable oil as a dc generator to eliminate the use of fossil fuel. Will need to make a suitable alternator aka windmill permanent magnet type. as for solar, this could be a possibility but due to the poor UK weatherm sunshine is not reliable enough for us. also the cost of connecting to our uk grid is prohibitive, due to the distance. Google for outback there the best right now for what you want. Ted Dorset uk I though UK sunshine was measure in inches per hour...!!! I built a couple of the MEN style conventional wind turbines a few years ago. They work OK but I'm thinking of building a couple vertical vane units to eliminate many problems that you have with conventional wind turbines. No need for a wind vane or directional control. Should be able to put the actual generator at the base and use a simple shaft up to the vanes. MUCH easier service that way. With all the Amish around here now I might even have a market for them! Most of them use an automatic diesel system for the milk house to provide vacuum and cooling and air power. Re Vertical axis wind turbine, My son ,( now 26) researched, designed and built for his senior school CDT final year project some 10 yrs ago a 10ft tall vertical axis 3 blade darius windurbine for just this purpose. The intersting bit was the blade making. If you like I can write up what we did.We still have all the. bits somewhere in a shed. we used an all metal construction for them.very strong and simple. however the advantages of this type of wind turbine are outweighed by its poorer efficiency than the horizontal axis type.To get the same power output they need to be twice as big. Ie there only 50% as efficient as the other type.Sorry to say. whatever anyone else may say. In 15mph wind tests it spun well , tho it was out of balance due to blade inaccuraces We also had a neibour who built a horizontal axis turbine some 20ft dia. using 4 3ft dia cones. this was effectively a drag machine with the torque output being the difference between the drag of the down wind going cups and the upwind . going ones. Never heard how he got on. Been dismantled some time. Can find out again if you would like to know. Ted in Dorset UK. |
OT -- off grid power systems
On Mar 26, 9:37*pm, David Lesher wrote:
I'd like to chat offline with someone who has installed a solar array system that feeds your load AND backfeeds to the grid {"meter backwards"}. And/or, I'm looking for a pointer to forums [formi??] centered around such. A few offgridders have posted on alt.energy.homepower but the level of technical info was far lower than here on R.C.M. jsw |
OT -- off grid power systems
Steve Spence, at Greentrust (he's got a web page
http://www.green-trust.org/wordpress/ ) might know that kind of thing. He's big alternative energy guy. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "David Lesher" wrote in message ... I'd like to chat offline with someone who has installed a solar array system that feeds your load AND backfeeds to the grid {"meter backwards"}. And/or, I'm looking for a pointer to forums [formi??] centered around such. -- A host is a host from coast to & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 |
OT -- off grid power systems
On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 05:39:48 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Jim Wilkins
scrawled the following: On Mar 26, 9:37*pm, David Lesher wrote: I'd like to chat offline with someone who has installed a solar array system that feeds your load AND backfeeds to the grid {"meter backwards"}. And/or, I'm looking for a pointer to forums [formi??] centered around such. A few offgridders have posted on alt.energy.homepower but the level of technical info was far lower than here on R.C.M. I'm interested in this stuff, too, and found the same lack of in-depth info on AEH depressing. The breadth and depth of info found here is wonderful. Great group. -- "Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein -=-=- |
OT -- off grid power systems
On Mar 27, 9:40*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 05:39:48 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Jim Wilkins scrawled the following: On Mar 26, 9:37 pm, David Lesher wrote: I'd like to chat offline with someone who has installed a solar array system that feeds your load AND backfeeds to the grid {"meter backwards"}. And/or, I'm looking for a pointer to forums [formi??] centered around such. A few offgridders have posted on alt.energy.homepower but the level of technical info was far lower than here on R.C.M. I'm interested in this stuff, too, and found the same lack of in-depth info on AEH depressing. *The breadth and depth of info found here is wonderful. *Great group. -- * * "Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -=-=- Try searching Backwoodshome.com. It is a magazine for self-reliant living. You can search their back issues for past articles. It is a great magazine. Tons of solar articles over the years. |
OT -- off grid power systems
On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 01:37:24 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote: I'd like to chat offline with someone who has installed a solar array system that feeds your load AND backfeeds to the grid {"meter backwards"}. And/or, I'm looking for a pointer to forums [formi??] centered around such. Try here. http://www.outbackpower.com/forum/vi...b175305 978f6 You might also search alt.energy.homepower looking for posts by Clarence Dold. Or just post your question there so that he and other grid-solar types will see it. Wayne |
OT -- off grid power systems
Steve W. wrote:
Weve been off grid for some 39 yrs. used diesels for power generation, on demand systems by Lister, called the startamatic set up. 5 yrs ago found 3 tons of nicad alkaline( sodium hydroxide ) batteries. so then invested in an 3kw "outback" US system of charger/inverter. Been in use for 6 months and has proved very efficient. Next step is to use one of our 6/1 diesels running on straight vegetable oil as a dc generator to eliminate the use of fossil fuel. Will need to make a suitable alternator aka windmill permanent magnet type. as for solar, this could be a possibility but due to the poor UK weatherm sunshine is not reliable enough for us. also the cost of connecting to our uk grid is prohibitive, due to the distance. Google for outback there the best right now for what you want. Ted Dorset uk I though UK sunshine was measure in inches per hour...!!! That's crazy! They are metric. -- Richard Lamb http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/ |
OT -- off grid power systems
On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 07:02:23 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Jesse
scrawled the following: On Mar 27, 9:40*am, Larry Jaques wrote: On Sat, 27 Mar 2010 05:39:48 -0700 (PDT), the infamous Jim Wilkins scrawled the following: On Mar 26, 9:37 pm, David Lesher wrote: I'd like to chat offline with someone who has installed a solar array system that feeds your load AND backfeeds to the grid {"meter backwards"}. And/or, I'm looking for a pointer to forums [formi??] centered around such. A few offgridders have posted on alt.energy.homepower but the level of technical info was far lower than here on R.C.M. I'm interested in this stuff, too, and found the same lack of in-depth info on AEH depressing. *The breadth and depth of info found here is wonderful. *Great group. -- * * "Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -=-=- Try searching Backwoodshome.com. It is a magazine for self-reliant living. You can search their back issues for past articles. It is a great magazine. Tons of solar articles over the years. Thanks. I'll give 'er a looksee. -- "Not always right, but never uncertain." --Heinlein -=-=- |
OT -- off grid power systems
On Mar 28, 6:10*pm, "Bill McKee" wrote:
... The problems I see of feeding back into the grid are multiple. *... You'd definitely want a UL-listed commercial product, which solves all those: http://www.xantrex.com/web/id/25/learn.asp jsw |
OT -- off grid power systems
"Bill McKee" writes:
The problems I see of feeding back into the grid are multiple. Matching frequency precisely. If there is a down line in the grid, and the power is turned off for repairs, does the lineman die because your grid came online and fed power backwards? Or your controller burns up, because the grid looks like a direct short when no power in to the grid. All true. But grid-tie systems are out there, in use. The question is: what's available in dual mode systems: a) Grid-tie, feeding power back IFF there is utility power. b) Power failure mode: supplying the house from solar and battery when the utility goes down. -- A host is a host from coast to & no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 |
OT -- off grid power systems
On Mar 29, 12:31*am, wrote:
... Wonder if Edison cells would have a market these days? *Railroads used them in a lot of high-reliabiity, low-maintenance roles. Stan Nickel-iron cells are available, but look at the price: http://www.beutilityfree.com/content...4&It emid=129 I can buy deep-discharge lead acid batteries for 1/10 of that. NiCads are too hazardous for DIY construction. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmium_poisoning jsw |
OT -- off grid power systems
On Mon, 29 Mar 2010 01:26:44 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote: "Bill McKee" writes: The problems I see of feeding back into the grid are multiple. Matching frequency precisely. If there is a down line in the grid, and the power is turned off for repairs, does the lineman die because your grid came online and fed power backwards? Or your controller burns up, because the grid looks like a direct short when no power in to the grid. All true. But grid-tie systems are out there, in use. Yes it is, there's a growing industry relating to that in Europe too. Germany is setting up solar systems on homes and buildings just for this purpose, mini power generation systems feeding the grid for distribution to where it's needed. That technology is here. The question is: what's available in dual mode systems: a) Grid-tie, feeding power back IFF there is utility power. b) Power failure mode: supplying the house from solar and battery when the utility goes down. Exactly. If anyone knows a company that can provide both features, I'd sure appreciate their contact info. The way I figure this is that it would be a shame to have an excess of solar generated power go to waste. I plan to over build this system in order to ensure we'll always have as much as we'll need. Thanks, Newb |
OT -- off grid power systems
On Mar 29, 3:15*pm, wrote:
... Exactly. *If anyone knows a company that can provide both features, I'd sure appreciate their contact info. * .... Newb A link is in my previous posting. jsw |
OT -- off grid power systems
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OT -- off grid power systems
And NiCads have memory.
Martin Jim Wilkins wrote: On Mar 29, 12:31 am, wrote: ... Wonder if Edison cells would have a market these days? Railroads used them in a lot of high-reliabiity, low-maintenance roles. Stan Nickel-iron cells are available, but look at the price: http://www.beutilityfree.com/content...4&It emid=129 I can buy deep-discharge lead acid batteries for 1/10 of that. NiCads are too hazardous for DIY construction. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmium_poisoning jsw |
OT -- off grid power systems
"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote: And NiCads have memory. Only when their charging is abused. This belief came from early failures aboard satellites and was traced to the very controlled charge/discharge cycles which damaged the cells. -- Lead free solder is Belgium's version of 'Hold my beer and watch this!' |
OT -- off grid power systems
In article ,
"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote: And NiCads have memory. Caused by widespread misunderstanding of how to handle them in a circuit design. See the ³Video Battery Handbook² from Anton Bauer: http://www.antonbauer.com/Downloads. Joe Gwinn Martin Jim Wilkins wrote: On Mar 29, 12:31 am, wrote: ... Wonder if Edison cells would have a market these days? Railroads used them in a lot of high-reliabiity, low-maintenance roles. Stan Nickel-iron cells are available, but look at the price: http://www.beutilityfree.com/content...ent&view=artic le&id=44&Itemid=129 I can buy deep-discharge lead acid batteries for 1/10 of that. NiCads are too hazardous for DIY construction. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cadmium_poisoning jsw |
OT -- off grid power systems
On Mar 29, 10:58*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: "Martin H. Eastburn" wrote: And NiCads have memory. * *Only when their charging is abused. *This belief came from early failures aboard satellites and was traced to the very controlled charge/discharge cycles which damaged the cells. They charged when the spacecraft was in sunlight and discharged when it passed through Earth's shadow, so the cycle was exactly the same for each orbit. Memory is difficult to recreate in the lab. jsw |
OT -- off grid power systems
On Tue, 30 Mar 2010 07:29:19 -0400, the infamous Joseph Gwinn
scrawled the following: In article , "Martin H. Eastburn" wrote: And NiCads have memory. Caused by widespread misunderstanding of how to handle them in a circuit design. See the ³Video Battery Handbook² from Anton Bauer: http://www.antonbauer.com/Downloads. That link flaked on me (defaulted to 'choose country' map) but I was able to find the ebook. Good one, Joe. The Dionic 160 warning was eye-opening, too. Our gov't, in its ultimate wisdom, can forbid the boarding of a plane with those dangerous, exploding lithium type batteries unless specific rules are followed to the letter. From the DOT manual: "All batteries, wet, dry, nonspillable, and lithium, must be securely packaged with the equipment in such a way that prevents the dangerous evolution of heat and protects against short circuits, or the batteries must be properly installed in the equipment. Properly cushion items to prevent shifting. The equipment must be designed, packaged, and be in proper condition so that no dangerous evolution of heat, fumes, gases, or fire will result. Leave devices in the “off” position. The device may not operate on its own or short circuit the battery in it. This can be achieved by engaging a trigger lock or disabling the power button/ switch. Batteries may not be recharged during transportation. Batteries packed in equipment may not exceed certain weight limits: Lithium batteries in equipment: 5kg net (passenger air/rail), 35kg net (cargo air) Lithium batteries packed with equipment: 5kg net (passenger air/rail), 35kg gross (cargo air) Wet batteries: 30kg gross (passenger air/rail), no limit by cargo air Dry batteries and Nonspillable batteries: no limit Important sections pertaining to batteries installed in and packaged with equipment: §§ 172.102, (Special Provisions 134, 157, 188, 189, A101, A103, and A104), 173.185(b) and (c ), and 173.220(d)." Note the requirement of a TRIGGER LOCK. Are these f**ks paranoid, or what? -- Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for. -- Earl Warren |
OT -- off grid power systems
On Mar 30, 9:04*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
...The device may not operate on its own or short circuit the battery in it. This can be achieved by engaging a trigger lock or disabling the power button/ switch. Batteries may not be recharged during transportation. .... Note the requirement of a TRIGGER LOCK. *Are these f**ks paranoid, or what? I believe that means two separate actions are needed to activate the switch, rubbing against something isn't enough. My chain saw has one that's like the grip safety on a 1911. I test batteries, sometimes to destruction. Those regulations aren't unreasonable. Aircraft rules attempt to minimize the fuel ignition risk in a crash, which can occur without warning on takeoff or landing. The Concorde is an example. You should see how the fire department responds to an alarm at Segway, because of all the lithium batteries there. jsw |
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