Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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On 2010-01-30, axolotl wrote:
Having said that, the business of hiring is screwy. A student of my
acquaintance is getting out in June with an MBA, MSME, and a BS in
physics. A couple of published papers. Very impressive engineering
project resume. Good (summer) engineering work history. No solid offers.
In the past someone like this would have to hand out numbers to the HR
departments. What gives?


That guy should consider going into finance industry. Interesting jobs
and good money. I have an MBA and a computer science degree in math
physics, that's how I know. I do not sell junk securities to suckers.

i
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"Steve B" wrote in message
...



But, would you prefer an employee that knows nothing but is able and
willing to quickly learn everything, or an employee that knows everything
and can't be taught anything?

RogerN



When I was in business, I would never hire anyone who had been in a union.

Steve


Why? The most anti-union people where I work were ex-union and glad we
didn't have one. However, the company couldn't have done more to make
people want a union if they handed out union cards.

RogerN



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On 1/30/2010 5:16 PM, Ignoramus10246 wrote:

That guy should consider going into finance industry. Interesting jobs
and good money. I have an MBA and a computer science degree in math
physics, that's how I know. I do not sell junk securities to suckers.


The student in question is a charming tall redhead without a Y
chromosome. All the more reason to be puzzled by the lack of blank
checks. Her interests are in engineering, and I presume she wants do
develop her engineering skills. I am sure the finance industry pays
better, but some kids are born to build things.

Kevin Gallimore
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"David R.Birch" wrote in message
...
Steve B wrote:
"David R.Birch" wrote in message
...
Steve B wrote:
But, would you prefer an employee that knows nothing but is able and
willing to quickly learn everything, or an employee that knows
everything
and can't be taught anything?

RogerN

When I was in business, I would never hire anyone who had been in a
union.

Steve
Too bad, I was in a union and the most important lesson I learned was
how bad they were.

But you wouldn't hire me in spite of my having learned my lesson.

David


I remember you. You wanted the break between the application and the
interview.


Nope, I was the guy being told by my fellow union members that my
productivity was making them look bad.

They asked, "why do you do more than you have to?"

I replied, "self respect, why would I do less than I can?"

I was not a good union man.

But you are too narrow minded to hire me.

Or for me to want to work for you.

David


David, I was in a union for 37 years. I hear you when your fellow workers
tell you to slow down, or you're the first to get laid off because they want
to take longer with the slower ones.

I was referring to "good union" men. Sounds like you do not fit that bill.

Steve


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"jk" wrote in message
...
"Steve B" wrote:


And the electricians were barred from moving freight. When crafts respect
each other's jobs, there's more work.


The hell there is! There is the same amount of "work" just more
people getting paid for standing around not doing part of it.


I didn't want to hook up electrical wires that I knew little about, and I
didn't want to turn over my fork lift to someone who didn't know how to
operate it. So, you have key personnel, and then the other usual suspects
surrounding the people actually getting the work done.




You might have observed for a day or
two, but you didn't learn much.

The convention business in Vegas is dismal. Light years away from what it
was decades ago. Out of towners, and under the table deals.



Gee and what do you think drives that????????????


Greed. Pure and simple. And union give aways over the years. Changing
rules that allow people to work there who have no business working there and
taking Teamster jobs. As for the industry itself, the economy has weakened
the amount of conventions, pure and simple.



Steve, who retired with 37 yrs. Teamster Union, a decent pension, and
continuing good benefits.


jk





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well, never having worked in HR, I'm sure I wouldn't know.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ignoramus10246" wrote
in message
...
On 2010-01-30, Stormin Mormon
wrote:
Occurs to me, that at least two interviews are needed. The
HR to discern if the person is a leech, or a worker. And
someone from the plant, to see if the candidate has the
technical skills.


How would HR determine if the person is a leech, or a
worker?

i


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On 2010-01-30, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
Ignoramus7752 wrote:
Some people are really good at bull****ting and manipulation and only
deep digging (asking detailed technical questions) can sort out those
BSers.

In any job interviews, I always ask "hard questions" that bull****ters
will not be able to answer correctly.

The worst interview suggestions are "body language" based suggestions,
paying attention to body language is truly a great way to get screwed.


I'll second that. I am an electrical engineer and have interviewed many
an engineer. Two cases stick out, both June grads from name
universities looking for their first job:

The EE football player. The interview was a struggle from the start and


Yep. There are two foolproof interview tips that I know.

1. Use proper body language indicating that you are honest and earnest
person. (very easy)

2. If possible, get the interviewer talk about himself or herself.

These do not guarantee employment if the interviewer is smart like Joe
Gwinn, but they guarantee a very warm fuzzy feeling.

i
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Stormin Mormon wrote:

well, never having worked in HR, I'm sure I wouldn't know.



Ask if they are a PHD? ;-)


--
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Ignoramus10246 wrote:

On 2010-01-30, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
Ignoramus7752 wrote:
Some people are really good at bull****ting and manipulation and only
deep digging (asking detailed technical questions) can sort out those
BSers.

In any job interviews, I always ask "hard questions" that bull****ters
will not be able to answer correctly.

The worst interview suggestions are "body language" based suggestions,
paying attention to body language is truly a great way to get screwed.


I'll second that. I am an electrical engineer and have interviewed many
an engineer. Two cases stick out, both June grads from name
universities looking for their first job:

The EE football player. The interview was a struggle from the start and


Yep. There are two foolproof interview tips that I know.

1. Use proper body language indicating that you are honest and earnest
person. (very easy)

2. If possible, get the interviewer talk about himself or herself.

These do not guarantee employment if the interviewer is smart like Joe
Gwinn, but they guarantee a very warm fuzzy feeling.



What good does that do when you need a job? a 'warm fuzzy feeling'
won't feed you.

BTW, great job the red Cross is doing at taking in all those homeless
Haitian kids. It's too bad that local churches have to do the heavy
lifting, and pay all the bills though.


--
Greed is the root of all eBay.
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Steve B wrote:
"David R.Birch" wrote in message
...
Steve B wrote:
"David R.Birch" wrote in message
...
Steve B wrote:
But, would you prefer an employee that knows nothing but is able and
willing to quickly learn everything, or an employee that knows
everything
and can't be taught anything?

RogerN
When I was in business, I would never hire anyone who had been in a
union.

Steve
Too bad, I was in a union and the most important lesson I learned was
how bad they were.

But you wouldn't hire me in spite of my having learned my lesson.

David
I remember you. You wanted the break between the application and the
interview.

Nope, I was the guy being told by my fellow union members that my
productivity was making them look bad.

They asked, "why do you do more than you have to?"

I replied, "self respect, why would I do less than I can?"

I was not a good union man.

But you are too narrow minded to hire me.

Or for me to want to work for you.

David


David, I was in a union for 37 years.


So less than 20 years of productive work.

I hear you when your fellow workers
tell you to slow down, or you're the first to get laid off because they want
to take longer with the slower ones.


Actually, when the layoffs started, my foreman shipped me out to other
depts which kept me from going before some others with more seniority
but less, or no, work ethic.

I was referring to "good union" men.


Yes, I understand, good union men with no self respect or pride in
what they do.

Sounds like you do not fit that bill.


Thanks.

You probably don't understand that you've complimented me.

David


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On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 09:43:01 -0800, the infamous "Steve B"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .


Most weren't
working, all waiting for the union electrician who could legally plug
a cord into an outlet, since they were barred from doing so. And on it
goes.


And the electricians were barred from moving freight. When crafts respect
each other's jobs, there's more work.


Sure there's more work. Only the "work" is falsely billing employers
for time waiting for the electrician, or somebody like him. (Did I
just say that?) 87 guys waiting around FOR HOURS for one of two
Sparkies. Brilliant planning. And when 'plugging an extension cord
into a power strip outlet designed specifically for it' becomes a
"craft", I'll eat my shorts.


You might have observed for a day or
two, but you didn't learn much.

The convention business in Vegas is dismal. Light years away from what it
was decades ago. Out of towners, and under the table deals.

Steve, who retired with 37 yrs. Teamster Union, a decent pension, and
continuing good benefits.


You may have retired with 37 years, but you didn't learn much.

Like I said, I learned my lesson with the Teamsters early on. YMMV

--
Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire,
you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
-- George Bernard Shaw
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On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 10:07:12 -0600, the infamous "David R.Birch"
scrawled the following:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Occurs to me, that at least two interviews are needed. The
HR to discern if the person is a leech, or a worker. And
someone from the plant, to see if the candidate has the
technical skills.


Most of the shops I've interviewed in send you to the guy you're going
to be working for first, then HR.

The one place where I went to HR first, the interviewer's description
of the company management made me not bother with the rest.


What a treat: You found an honest HR department employee!

--
Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire,
you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
-- George Bernard Shaw
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On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:27:57 -0800, the infamous "Steve B"
scrawled the following:


"David R.Birch" wrote in message
...
Steve B wrote:
"David R.Birch" wrote in message
...
Steve B wrote:
But, would you prefer an employee that knows nothing but is able and
willing to quickly learn everything, or an employee that knows
everything
and can't be taught anything?

RogerN

When I was in business, I would never hire anyone who had been in a
union.

Steve
Too bad, I was in a union and the most important lesson I learned was
how bad they were.

But you wouldn't hire me in spite of my having learned my lesson.

David

I remember you. You wanted the break between the application and the
interview.


Nope, I was the guy being told by my fellow union members that my
productivity was making them look bad.

They asked, "why do you do more than you have to?"

I replied, "self respect, why would I do less than I can?"

I was not a good union man.

But you are too narrow minded to hire me.

Or for me to want to work for you.

David


David, I was in a union for 37 years. I hear you when your fellow workers
tell you to slow down, or you're the first to get laid off because they want
to take longer with the slower ones.

I was referring to "good union" men. Sounds like you do not fit that bill.


Damn, Steve. With statements like that, you're _living_proof_ for the
disdain we have for unions and their members. That's truly sad.

--
Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire,
you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
-- George Bernard Shaw
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"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
There you go. The two level interview.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Buerste" wrote in message
...

Yep, I've been snookered a few times but no big deal. I
have a 90 day
probationary period and the head of the union will tell me
if the guy's a
worker or not and he wants his people to be a good team.



This guy gets it! He knows that the prosperity of the company is directly
related to his income. We use a production bonus system and the people can
double their pay checks if they work hard and suffer few breakdowns. Each
job is dependent on other people doing their job right. If there's a
slacker in the chain, other people's bonus suffers...they don't like that!
Therefore, peer pressure helps keep people on-time, sober, focused and
productive.

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"Steve B" wrote in message
...

But, would you prefer an employee that knows nothing but is able and
willing to quickly learn everything, or an employee that knows everything
and can't be taught anything?

RogerN


I have found out that the guy you actually hire shows up about two weeks
after starting. They can all do good for about two weeks, then you find
out if you made a good choice or not.

Steve



We call that the "Honeymoon".



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"RogerN" wrote in message
m...

"Steve B" wrote in message
...



But, would you prefer an employee that knows nothing but is able and
willing to quickly learn everything, or an employee that knows
everything
and can't be taught anything?

RogerN



When I was in business, I would never hire anyone who had been in a
union.

Steve


Why? The most anti-union people where I work were ex-union and glad we
didn't have one. However, the company couldn't have done more to make
people want a union if they handed out union cards.

RogerN


There was only one union that the workers had the skill set I needed. And
it was notorious for its tactics and practices at the local mill. Plus,
they all wanted $20 an hour to start.

Steve


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"David R.Birch" wrote in message
...
Steve B wrote:
"David R.Birch" wrote in message
...
Steve B wrote:
"David R.Birch" wrote in message
...
Steve B wrote:
But, would you prefer an employee that knows nothing but is able and
willing to quickly learn everything, or an employee that knows
everything
and can't be taught anything?

RogerN
When I was in business, I would never hire anyone who had been in a
union.

Steve
Too bad, I was in a union and the most important lesson I learned was
how bad they were.

But you wouldn't hire me in spite of my having learned my lesson.

David
I remember you. You wanted the break between the application and the
interview.
Nope, I was the guy being told by my fellow union members that my
productivity was making them look bad.

They asked, "why do you do more than you have to?"

I replied, "self respect, why would I do less than I can?"

I was not a good union man.

But you are too narrow minded to hire me.

Or for me to want to work for you.

David


David, I was in a union for 37 years.


So less than 20 years of productive work.

I hear you when your fellow workers tell you to slow down, or you're the
first to get laid off because they want to take longer with the slower
ones.


Actually, when the layoffs started, my foreman shipped me out to other
depts which kept me from going before some others with more seniority but
less, or no, work ethic.

I was referring to "good union" men.


Yes, I understand, good union men with no self respect or pride in what
they do.

Sounds like you do not fit that bill.


Thanks.

You probably don't understand that you've complimented me.

David


You did get it, then.

Steve


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"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:27:57 -0800, the infamous "Steve B"
scrawled the following:


"David R.Birch" wrote in message
...
Steve B wrote:
"David R.Birch" wrote in message
...
Steve B wrote:
But, would you prefer an employee that knows nothing but is able and
willing to quickly learn everything, or an employee that knows
everything
and can't be taught anything?

RogerN

When I was in business, I would never hire anyone who had been in a
union.

Steve
Too bad, I was in a union and the most important lesson I learned was
how bad they were.

But you wouldn't hire me in spite of my having learned my lesson.

David

I remember you. You wanted the break between the application and the
interview.

Nope, I was the guy being told by my fellow union members that my
productivity was making them look bad.

They asked, "why do you do more than you have to?"

I replied, "self respect, why would I do less than I can?"

I was not a good union man.

But you are too narrow minded to hire me.

Or for me to want to work for you.

David


David, I was in a union for 37 years. I hear you when your fellow workers
tell you to slow down, or you're the first to get laid off because they
want
to take longer with the slower ones.

I was referring to "good union" men. Sounds like you do not fit that
bill.


Damn, Steve. With statements like that, you're _living_proof_ for the
disdain we have for unions and their members. That's truly sad.


I really believe SEIU had a little to do with it, too.

Steve


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"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 09:43:01 -0800, the infamous "Steve B"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..


Most weren't
working, all waiting for the union electrician who could legally plug
a cord into an outlet, since they were barred from doing so. And on it
goes.


And the electricians were barred from moving freight. When crafts respect
each other's jobs, there's more work.


Sure there's more work. Only the "work" is falsely billing employers
for time waiting for the electrician, or somebody like him. (Did I
just say that?) 87 guys waiting around FOR HOURS for one of two
Sparkies. Brilliant planning. And when 'plugging an extension cord
into a power strip outlet designed specifically for it' becomes a
"craft", I'll eat my shorts.


You might have observed for a day or
two, but you didn't learn much.

The convention business in Vegas is dismal. Light years away from what it
was decades ago. Out of towners, and under the table deals.

Steve, who retired with 37 yrs. Teamster Union, a decent pension, and
continuing good benefits.


You may have retired with 37 years, but you didn't learn much.

Like I said, I learned my lesson with the Teamsters early on. YMMV


And yet you contradict yourself with the statement that I didn't learn much.
I learned enough to get myself into a department that was performance based
(the only one there), and to work from bare floor to bare floor while the
other crews worked helter skelter and intermittently.

You may have learned something from your experience with the Las Vegas
Teamsters. But it wasn't "Shut up and do what you're told". When you do
that, it goes better. And you get more hours. Notice I said "hours" and
not "work". Soldiers who do what they are told fare better than those who
don't and have to question every order. They either get sent down the road
or killed.

Steve


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Steve B wrote:

Soldiers who do what they are told fare better than those who don't and
have to question every order. They either get sent down the road or
killed.



Not always. I got a letter of commendation and a promotion for
ignoring an order.


--
Greed is the root of all eBay.


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Let the Record show that "Steve B" on or
about Fri, 29 Jan 2010 15:35:06 -0800 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

There's a hundred ways to cook a poodle. But it all tastes like chicken.


LOL - I like that!

Steve

-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
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Let the Record show that "Buerste" on or about
Fri, 29 Jan 2010 21:26:44 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .
Let the Record show that " on or
about Fri, 29 Jan 2010 06:52:53 -0800 (PST) did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Jan 29, 3:39 am, "RogerN" wrote:

Couldn't you also be weeding out the best employees in the raw? I've
seen a
lot of burnt out experienced employees get preferred over a newbie
although
in a year or two sometimes the newbie goes far beyond the experienced
burnout.

RogerN

Lots of companies want specific experience and should be more open
minded. But it sounds like Tom's test of measuring the length of
lines falls into general knowledge. I once did not hire a high school
graduate that did not know how many inches were in a foot. I do not
think he would have turned out to be one of our best employees.


As bizarre as it sounds, I did work with a guy who could not read a
steel tape. Kind of a handclap when it came to measuring things
around the shop.
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!


Not bizarre at all! Did you ever try to teach somebody to read a tape that
has no concept of fractions?

Can't say.

Do not know, so cannot say.

I would wager it get a little bit difficult when they're missing
that little detail.
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
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Let the Record show that "Denis G." on or about
Fri, 29 Jan 2010 15:31:17 -0800 (PST) did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Jan 29, 2:21*pm, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Let the Record show that "Karl Townsend"
on or about Fri, 29 Jan 2010
02:24:15 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking *the following:



I recently read a Warren Buffet quote: "Someone once said that in
looking for people to hire you look for three qualities: integrity,
intelligence, and energy. *And if they don't have the first, the other
two will kill you."


Man I couldn't agree more. Give me a person with integrity and a good work


* * * * Integrity will give you a "good work ethic".

* * * * Buffet's point is that a hard worker without integrity, is working
for themselves, not you.


Being ethical and having integrity are one in the same. Warren
Buffets wants people he can trust. I expect that he understands
people who seek profit for themselves and he looks for as much value
as he can get for what he is paying in wages. Sounds like a fair
horse trader to me.


I think what Buffet (and the rest of us) want is someone who will
give an hour's work for an hour's wage, and figures if the company
makes money, we "both" get rich. That does go both ways, if the
company makes money, but doesn't share, or don't reward effort, then
.... "I was looking for a job when I started here."

The "unethical' may do a lot of work at the job, but it isn't for
the company. I know of a case where the guy built a database 'for the
company', then left and took it with him. Bad move.

There was a editorial in the Wall Street Journal 'last week" (Jan
25th,2010), commenting on the (Current flap with the late night TV
talk shows. The comparison was made to when Johnny Carson had the
tonight show. He had a favorite guest host who filled in while he was
gone. Once, he was going to be gone for three weeks. At the end of the
first week,the guest host announced that starting the next week, they
would have their own show, on a different network (iirc). Not nice.
But Johnny Carson simply replaced the guest host for the rest of the
gig, and forbade anything to be said about it on the show. Class act,
and a class response to a person who had taken advantage of him in
manner which might be considered unethical..
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
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Let the Record show that "David R.Birch" on or
about Sat, 30 Jan 2010 10:07:12 -0600 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Occurs to me, that at least two interviews are needed. The
HR to discern if the person is a leech, or a worker. And
someone from the plant, to see if the candidate has the
technical skills.


Most of the shops I've interviewed in send you to the guy you're going
to be working for first, then HR.

The one place where I went to HR first, the interviewer's description
of the company management made me not bother with the rest.


After a group orientation for a company, which ran a rotating
shift - twelve hour days (two on three off, three one two off, etc)
for two weeks, then reverse for two weeks on nights, a bunch of us
left before it got went any further. I didn't want to have to carry a
calendar to know if I'll be free on Saturday. and then said "I've only
been here a half hour, and already I have a bad attitude about working
here." Twelve hour shifts and an hour's drive in good traffic, each
way? I might not have much of a life, but I do have one.

-
pyotr filipivich
If the world was flat - some would sue about people falling off the edge.
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Let the Record show that Wes on or about Sat, 30
Jan 2010 07:59:23 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
pyotr filipivich wrote:

As bizarre as it sounds, I did work with a guy who could not read a
steel tape. Kind of a handclap when it came to measuring things
around the shop.


I'm dangeous if I'm reading it upside down. Tend to cut an inch short


Heard of a guy who used folding rulers - the wooden kinds. Till
he ,made a set of cabinets 6 inches short. Seems the first six inch
section had gotten broken off... and he had not noticed..


tschus
pyotr
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!


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"RogerN" wrote:



But, would you prefer an employee that knows nothing but is able and
willing to quickly learn everything, or an employee that knows everything
and can't be taught anything?

RogerN

Yes, but SOME of the examples given, show that the person ALREADY
didn't learn anything. [i.e. the one who didn't know how many inches
in a foot. No perhaps out of the US, that particular one would be
different.]
jk
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Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 10:07:12 -0600, the infamous "David R.Birch"
scrawled the following:

Stormin Mormon wrote:
Occurs to me, that at least two interviews are needed. The
HR to discern if the person is a leech, or a worker. And
someone from the plant, to see if the candidate has the
technical skills.

Most of the shops I've interviewed in send you to the guy you're going
to be working for first, then HR.

The one place where I went to HR first, the interviewer's description
of the company management made me not bother with the rest.


What a treat: You found an honest HR department employee!


Not really, she told me the company had been bought from a machinist
who started it by a much younger couple who had made some money in
accounting. I'd already experienced one company run by a bean counter
who had no idea how to make parts.

David
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On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 21:40:15 -0800, the infamous "Steve B"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 15:27:57 -0800, the infamous "Steve B"
scrawled the following:


I was referring to "good union" men. Sounds like you do not fit that
bill.


Damn, Steve. With statements like that, you're _living_proof_ for the
disdain we have for unions and their members. That's truly sad.


I really believe SEIU had a little to do with it, too.


Sure, they did. They corrupted you, Steve. Like I said: sad.

http://fwd4.me/Dfg More?


--
Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire,
you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
-- George Bernard Shaw
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On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 21:47:36 -0800, the infamous "Steve B"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 09:43:01 -0800, the infamous "Steve B"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...


Most weren't
working, all waiting for the union electrician who could legally plug
a cord into an outlet, since they were barred from doing so. And on it
goes.

And the electricians were barred from moving freight. When crafts respect
each other's jobs, there's more work.


Sure there's more work. Only the "work" is falsely billing employers
for time waiting for the electrician, or somebody like him. (Did I
just say that?) 87 guys waiting around FOR HOURS for one of two
Sparkies. Brilliant planning. And when 'plugging an extension cord
into a power strip outlet designed specifically for it' becomes a
"craft", I'll eat my shorts.


You might have observed for a day or
two, but you didn't learn much.

The convention business in Vegas is dismal. Light years away from what it
was decades ago. Out of towners, and under the table deals.

Steve, who retired with 37 yrs. Teamster Union, a decent pension, and
continuing good benefits.


You may have retired with 37 years, but you didn't learn much.

Like I said, I learned my lesson with the Teamsters early on. YMMV


And yet you contradict yourself with the statement that I didn't learn much.
I learned enough to get myself into a department that was performance based
(the only one there), and to work from bare floor to bare floor while the
other crews worked helter skelter and intermittently.


Huh? What I learned was ABOUT them, that they were scammers. I didn't
learn anything FROM them.


You may have learned something from your experience with the Las Vegas
Teamsters. But it wasn't "Shut up and do what you're told". When you do
that, it goes better. And you get more hours. Notice I said "hours" and
not "work".


You're unbelieveable, Steve. Weren't you just talking about hiring
people with ethics? What you've just recommended is the total opposite
of that.


Soldiers who do what they are told fare better than those who
don't and have to question every order. They either get sent down the road
or killed.


It's interesting that you used that particular analogy, Steve, given
the known syndicate backing of the Unions.

--
Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire,
you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
-- George Bernard Shaw
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pyotr filipivich wrote:

Let the Record show that "David R.Birch" on or
about Sat, 30 Jan 2010 10:07:12 -0600 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Stormin Mormon wrote:
Occurs to me, that at least two interviews are needed. The
HR to discern if the person is a leech, or a worker. And
someone from the plant, to see if the candidate has the
technical skills.


Most of the shops I've interviewed in send you to the guy you're going
to be working for first, then HR.

The one place where I went to HR first, the interviewer's description
of the company management made me not bother with the rest.


After a group orientation for a company, which ran a rotating
shift - twelve hour days (two on three off, three one two off, etc)
for two weeks, then reverse for two weeks on nights, a bunch of us
left before it got went any further. I didn't want to have to carry a
calendar to know if I'll be free on Saturday. and then said "I've only
been here a half hour, and already I have a bad attitude about working
here." Twelve hour shifts and an hour's drive in good traffic, each
way? I might not have much of a life, but I do have one.



Try 16+ hour days, three on, two off, two on, one week and three off,
two on, two off the next. I had a year of that in the US Army, at an
AFRTS Radio & TV station The Saturday & Sunday rotation could hit 40
hours in just two days.



--
Greed is the root of all eBay.


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On Jan 31, 12:10*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 21:47:36 -0800, the infamous "Steve B"
scrawled the following:
...
Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire,
you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *-- George Bernard Shaw-


Your quote is ironic considering Shaw's imaginary view of Stalin:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-killings.html

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On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 23:48:34 -0500, "Buerste"
wrote:


"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
There you go. The two level interview.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Buerste" wrote in message
...

Yep, I've been snookered a few times but no big deal. I
have a 90 day
probationary period and the head of the union will tell me
if the guy's a
worker or not and he wants his people to be a good team.



This guy gets it! He knows that the prosperity of the company is directly
related to his income. We use a production bonus system and the people can
double their pay checks if they work hard and suffer few breakdowns. Each
job is dependent on other people doing their job right. If there's a
slacker in the chain, other people's bonus suffers...they don't like that!
Therefore, peer pressure helps keep people on-time, sober, focused and
productive.


I built a railroad yard for a lumber mill and they used that business
model. It was only a 4 month contract (that I was there), but they
had a lot of employee injuries. Too many if you ask me. If any link
in the production chain broke, the entire operation came to a
screeching halt. Busting ass to catch back up was when the injuries
happened. That and pushing the limits to make the bonus. How do you
balance those aspects to keep injuries to a minimum?

And to add some metal working content, there is a lot of really cool
machinery in a lumber mill! Everything is timed like a watch with
product moving from raw trees to finished product in one plant. The
millwrights who keep that show running are worth their weight in gold.
I found the place facinating. I suspect your company is similar to
that.

Newb

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"Steve B" wrote:


And the electricians were barred from moving freight. When crafts respect
each other's jobs, there's more work.


The hell there is! There is the same amount of "work" just more
people getting paid for standing around not doing part of it.


You might have observed for a day or
two, but you didn't learn much.

The convention business in Vegas is dismal. Light years away from what it
was decades ago. Out of towners, and under the table deals.



Gee and what do you think drives that????????????

Steve, who retired with 37 yrs. Teamster Union, a decent pension, and
continuing good benefits.


jk
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"Larry Jaques" wrote

You're unbelieveable, Steve. Weren't you just talking about hiring
people with ethics? What you've just recommended is the total opposite
of that.


You're a piece of work. No, you are a piece of ****. Your reading
comprehension sucks, and your psychic powers are overrated. By YOU!

My two experiences are just that. One as a union member, and the other as a
business owner. Interspersed with 37 years of membership in the union was
three separate careers where I ventured outside the confines of the union
shop and into the real world. The first one almost didn't go so well,
venturing from union shop into offshore oil business. But I adapted.

You have mixed and muddled so many things with absolutely no comprehension
of any of it that I find you no longer interesting or worth of talking with.

You may go now.

Steve


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"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
On Jan 31, 12:10 pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 21:47:36 -0800, the infamous "Steve B"
scrawled the following:
...
Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire,
you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
-- George Bernard Shaw-


Your quote is ironic considering Shaw's imaginary view of Stalin:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukne...-killings.html

Sorry, but you have attributed something to me that I did not write.

Steve




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On Sun, 31 Jan 2010 17:52:37 -0800, the infamous "Steve B"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote

You're unbelieveable, Steve. Weren't you just talking about hiring
people with ethics? What you've just recommended is the total opposite
of that.


You're a piece of work. No, you are a piece of ****. Your reading
comprehension sucks, and your psychic powers are overrated. By YOU!

My two experiences are just that. One as a union member, and the other as a
business owner. Interspersed with 37 years of membership in the union was
three separate careers where I ventured outside the confines of the union
shop and into the real world. The first one almost didn't go so well,
venturing from union shop into offshore oil business. But I adapted.

You have mixed and muddled so many things with absolutely no comprehension
of any of it that I find you no longer interesting or worth of talking with.

You may go now.


Bwahahahahaha! You, too.

--
Imagination is the beginning of creation. You imagine what you desire,
you will what you imagine and at last you create what you will.
-- George Bernard Shaw
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wrote in message
...
On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 23:48:34 -0500, "Buerste"
wrote:


"Stormin Mormon" wrote in message
...
There you go. The two level interview.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Buerste" wrote in message
...

Yep, I've been snookered a few times but no big deal. I
have a 90 day
probationary period and the head of the union will tell me
if the guy's a
worker or not and he wants his people to be a good team.



This guy gets it! He knows that the prosperity of the company is directly
related to his income. We use a production bonus system and the people
can
double their pay checks if they work hard and suffer few breakdowns. Each
job is dependent on other people doing their job right. If there's a
slacker in the chain, other people's bonus suffers...they don't like that!
Therefore, peer pressure helps keep people on-time, sober, focused and
productive.


I built a railroad yard for a lumber mill and they used that business
model. It was only a 4 month contract (that I was there), but they
had a lot of employee injuries. Too many if you ask me. If any link
in the production chain broke, the entire operation came to a
screeching halt. Busting ass to catch back up was when the injuries
happened. That and pushing the limits to make the bonus. How do you
balance those aspects to keep injuries to a minimum?

And to add some metal working content, there is a lot of really cool
machinery in a lumber mill! Everything is timed like a watch with
product moving from raw trees to finished product in one plant. The
millwrights who keep that show running are worth their weight in gold.
I found the place facinating. I suspect your company is similar to
that.

Newb


We are pretty low risk injury wise AND we have safety protocols that work!
We haven't had a Workers Comp involved injury for 15 years. A few cuts and
back pains are the norm and on the whole my people take safety seriously.
Your point is very well taken, hurried people make mistakes. And, NO amount
of money is worth a serious injury, it would break my heart if somebody had
a run-in with a punch press.

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