Metrology - nearly metal
 

Have the need for a low cost CMM or equivalent.
The requirement is to measure bagpipe chanter reed blades (made with metal
machinery!). Reeds are of shaped bamboo slips one and one half inches long
by three quarter inches wide and sixty thou thick (that is the envelope
dimensions). Accuracy plus/minus half a thou. Blades are tapered in length
and width, variably.
Have considered a micrometer stage microscope, my eyes are getting weaker
but could probably manage with average of several readings. This method
would be OK for X & Y axes but what about Z? Could the focussing mechanism
provide accurate measurement?
Ideal would be a computerized laser measuring machine but definitely far too
costly.
Micrometers although very accurate are difficult to apply to the varying
thickness of the blades and angular geometry.
Anyone with experience measuring small parts in a quality control
environment. Any suggestions on suitable and available tools? (A hammer to
smash the reed and render the pipes inoperable is not an acceptable reply!)
Has anyone homebuilt a CMM equivalent?
Any leads on cheap components and plans for building one?
All help appreciated, and I promise that the reeds produced will make 'pipe
music better.
Ray

Metrology - nearly metal
 

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 04:24:06 GMT, "Ray Field"
wrote:

Have the need for a low cost CMM or equivalent.
The requirement is to measure bagpipe chanter reed blades (made with metal
machinery!). Reeds are of shaped bamboo slips one and one half inches long
by three quarter inches wide and sixty thou thick (that is the envelope
dimensions). Accuracy plus/minus half a thou. Blades are tapered in length
and width, variably.
Have considered a micrometer stage microscope, my eyes are getting weaker
but could probably manage with average of several readings. This method
would be OK for X & Y axes but what about Z? Could the focussing mechanism
provide accurate measurement?
Ideal would be a computerized laser measuring machine but definitely far too
costly.
Micrometers although very accurate are difficult to apply to the varying
thickness of the blades and angular geometry.
Anyone with experience measuring small parts in a quality control
environment. Any suggestions on suitable and available tools? (A hammer to
smash the reed and render the pipes inoperable is not an acceptable reply!)
Has anyone homebuilt a CMM equivalent?
Any leads on cheap components and plans for building one?
All help appreciated, and I promise that the reeds produced will make 'pipe
music better.
Ray


A toolmaker's microscope would work. The limit on resolution would be
the surface finish on the bamboo, especially when using the focus to
take Z dimensions. Presumably you could avoid taking depth
measurements with the focus by using the fat end as the X dimension
zero and rotating the reed on edge in a fixture to take Z dimensions.

An optical comparator might also work and give you a larger working
field, but would require using surface illumination in the Z
direction, but I don't think would be as sensitive as a microscope in
that axis.

If you send me a reject reed and a table of the dimensions you're
interested in, I'll measure it for you and take a few photos thru my
toolmaker's 'scope.

--
Ned Simmons

Metrology - nearly metal
 

On Dec 14, 9:24*pm, "Ray Field" wrote:
Have the need for a low cost CMM or equivalent.
The requirement is to measure bagpipe chanter reed blades (made with metal
machinery!). Reeds are of shaped bamboo slips one and one half inches long
by three quarter inches wide and sixty thou thick (that is the envelope
dimensions). Accuracy plus/minus half a thou. Blades are tapered in length
and width, variably.
Have considered a micrometer stage microscope, my eyes are getting weaker
but could probably manage with average of several readings. This method
would be OK for X & Y axes but what about Z? Could the focussing mechanism
provide accurate measurement?
Ideal would be a computerized laser measuring machine but definitely far too
costly.
Micrometers although very accurate are difficult to apply to the varying
thickness of the blades and angular geometry.
Anyone with experience measuring small parts in a quality control
environment. Any suggestions on suitable and available tools? (A hammer to
smash the reed and render the pipes inoperable is not an acceptable reply!)
Has anyone homebuilt a CMM equivalent?
Any leads on cheap components and plans for building one?
All help appreciated, and I promise that the reeds produced will make 'pipe
music better.
Ray

Might be an application for some sort of comparator, blow the
silhouette up on a screen and compare it with the outline of a good
one. Has been some old posts here on making one from an old fiche
projector. There are also knife-edge micrometers around, should you
prefer the direct method.

Bamboo, like wood, isn't a uniform material, I can remember reed
players in school always messing around with various jigs that the
band director had to improve their reeds. So you'll probably still
end up sanding and scraping to get the sound you want.

Stan

Metrology - nearly metal
 

Any suggestions on suitable and available tools? (A hammer t
o
smash the reed and render the pipes inoperable is not an acceptable
reply
!)

"The ill wind that no one blows good."

Ahh... my son and I have been working on that issue for a couple of
years. He plays both highland and Illian (dry wind) pipes.

The problem is that a good reed that can switch octaves is ultimately a
VERY complex shape -- not merely a single-plane profile, but contoured in
all three axes.

He's become very good at carving his own slips and tailoring them to a
particular chanter or drone, but hasn't yet quantified much of anything.
He's made reeds from everything from beer cans to credit cards to
graphite composites, and they all work (some only passibly).

You have quite an analysis project ahead of you. Even the real
"masters" still carve pipe reeds by hand. (although the Japanese seem to
be successfully making cast composite reeds for orchestral woodwinds)

LLoyd

Metrology - nearly metal
 

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 04:24:06 +0000, Ray Field wrote:

Have the need for a low cost CMM or equivalent. The requirement is to
measure bagpipe chanter reed blades (made with metal machinery!). Reeds
are of shaped bamboo slips one and one half inches long by three quarter
inches wide and sixty thou thick (that is the envelope dimensions).
Accuracy plus/minus half a thou. Blades are tapered in length and width,
variably.
Have considered a micrometer stage microscope, my eyes are getting
weaker but could probably manage with average of several readings. This
method would be OK for X & Y axes but what about Z? Could the focussing
mechanism provide accurate measurement?
Ideal would be a computerized laser measuring machine but definitely far
too costly.
Micrometers although very accurate are difficult to apply to the varying
thickness of the blades and angular geometry. Anyone with experience
measuring small parts in a quality control environment. Any suggestions
on suitable and available tools? (A hammer to smash the reed and render
the pipes inoperable is not an acceptable reply!) Has anyone homebuilt a
CMM equivalent? Any leads on cheap components and plans for building
one? All help appreciated, and I promise that the reeds produced will
make 'pipe music better.
Ray

Cutting it into sections and laying them on end to get your Z-axis
measure is a good second best to smashing them. You'll still save the
neighbor's ears, but you won't have the satisfaction of generating shards
with each hammer blow.

--
www.wescottdesign.com

Metrology - nearly metal
 

"Ray Field" wrote in message
news:GbEVm.57633$PH1.5785@edtnps82...
Have the need for a low cost CMM or equivalent.
The requirement is to measure bagpipe chanter reed blades (made with metal
machinery!). Reeds are of shaped bamboo slips one and one half inches long
by three quarter inches wide and sixty thou thick (that is the envelope
dimensions). Accuracy plus/minus half a thou. Blades are tapered in length
and width, variably.
Have considered a micrometer stage microscope, my eyes are getting weaker
but could probably manage with average of several readings. This method
would be OK for X & Y axes but what about Z? Could the focussing mechanism
provide accurate measurement?
Ideal would be a computerized laser measuring machine but definitely far
too
costly.
Micrometers although very accurate are difficult to apply to the varying
thickness of the blades and angular geometry.
Anyone with experience measuring small parts in a quality control
environment. Any suggestions on suitable and available tools? (A hammer to
smash the reed and render the pipes inoperable is not an acceptable
reply!)
Has anyone homebuilt a CMM equivalent?
Any leads on cheap components and plans for building one?
All help appreciated, and I promise that the reeds produced will make
'pipe
music better.
Ray



What if you put a dial indicator in a stand and laid the reed flat on a
surface plate?

Seems to me that you could measure the Z profile with little problem that
way.

--

Roger Shoaf

About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then
they come up with this striped stuff.

Metrology - nearly metal
 

On Dec 14, 8:24*pm, "Ray Field" wrote:
Have the need for a low cost CMM or equivalent.
The requirement is to measure bagpipe chanter reed ...
Have considered a micrometer stage microscope, my eyes are getting weaker
but could probably manage with average of several readings. This method
would be OK for X & Y axes but what about Z? Could the focussing mechanism
provide accurate measurement?

Probably the Z axis is not gonna work with an optical system;
even if you could identify the focus, how do you make the reference
surface (the back side of the reed) known to that half-a-thousandth
tolerance?

Lever/anvil/dial gage meters are what some reed-makers use,
is that unacceptable for some reason? Look for 'dial thickness
gage'.

I've heard of measurement systems based on air pressure that would
allow you
to make a no-contact measurement; instead of anvils in contact, it's
orifice in near proximity (and when the air flow gets partly blocked,
the
pressure rise says you're exactly THIS close).

Metrology - nearly metal
 

On Dec 14, 11:24*pm, "Ray Field" wrote:
Have the need for a low cost CMM or equivalent.
The requirement is to measure bagpipe chanter reed blades (made with metal
machinery!). Reeds are of shaped bamboo slips one and one half inches long
by three quarter inches wide and sixty thou thick (that is the envelope
dimensions). Accuracy plus/minus half a thou. Blades are tapered in length
and width, variably.
...
Ray

Gear tooth caliper:
http://www.tresnainstrument.com/meas...ipers_sc21.jpg

jsw

Metrology - nearly metal
 

Thanks for all the answers. Lots of good tips.
What are typical X &Y ranges for toolmakers measuring microscopes?
Ray
"Ray Field" wrote in message
news:GbEVm.57633$PH1.5785@edtnps82...
Have the need for a low cost CMM or equivalent.
The requirement is to measure bagpipe chanter reed blades (made with metal
machinery!). Reeds are of shaped bamboo slips one and one half inches long
by three quarter inches wide and sixty thou thick (that is the envelope
dimensions). Accuracy plus/minus half a thou. Blades are tapered in length
and width, variably.
Have considered a micrometer stage microscope, my eyes are getting weaker
but could probably manage with average of several readings. This method
would be OK for X & Y axes but what about Z? Could the focussing mechanism
provide accurate measurement?
Ideal would be a computerized laser measuring machine but definitely far
too costly.
Micrometers although very accurate are difficult to apply to the varying
thickness of the blades and angular geometry.
Anyone with experience measuring small parts in a quality control
environment. Any suggestions on suitable and available tools? (A hammer to
smash the reed and render the pipes inoperable is not an acceptable
reply!)
Has anyone homebuilt a CMM equivalent?
Any leads on cheap components and plans for building one?
All help appreciated, and I promise that the reeds produced will make
'pipe music better.
Ray

Metrology - nearly metal
 

On Tue, 15 Dec 2009 04:24:06 GMT, the infamous "Ray Field"
scrawled the following:

Have the need for a low cost CMM or equivalent.
The requirement is to measure bagpipe chanter reed blades (made with metal
machinery!). Reeds are of shaped bamboo slips one and one half inches long
by three quarter inches wide and sixty thou thick (that is the envelope
dimensions). Accuracy plus/minus half a thou. Blades are tapered in length
and width, variably.
Have considered a micrometer stage microscope, my eyes are getting weaker
but could probably manage with average of several readings. This method
would be OK for X & Y axes but what about Z? Could the focussing mechanism
provide accurate measurement?
Ideal would be a computerized laser measuring machine but definitely far too
costly.
Micrometers although very accurate are difficult to apply to the varying
thickness of the blades and angular geometry.
Anyone with experience measuring small parts in a quality control
environment. Any suggestions on suitable and available tools? (A hammer to
smash the reed and render the pipes inoperable is not an acceptable reply!)
Has anyone homebuilt a CMM equivalent?
Any leads on cheap components and plans for building one?
All help appreciated, and I promise that the reeds produced will make 'pipe
music better.

Ray, your post reminded me of the joke I received the other day.
Sorry, I have no CMM advice.
--snip--

As a bagpiper, I play many gigs. Recently I was asked by a funeral
director to play at a grave side service for a homeless man. He had no
family or friends, so the service was to be at a pauper's cemetery in
the Kentucky back-country.

As I was not familiar with the backwoods, I got lost; and being a
typical man I didn't stop for directions. I finally arrived an hour
late and saw the funeral guy had evidently gone and the hearse was
nowhere in sight.

There were only the diggers and crew left and they were eating lunch.
I felt badly and apologized to the men for being late. I went to the
side of the grave and looked down and the vault lid was already in
place. I didn't know what else to do, so I started to play.

The workers put down their lunches and began to gather around. I
played out my heart and soul for this man with no family and friends.
I played like I've never played before for this homeless man.

And as I played 'Amazing Grace,' the workers began to weep. They wept,
I wept, we all wept together. When I finished I packed up my bagpipes
and started for my car. Though my head hung low my heart was full.

As I was opened the door to my car, I heard one of the workers say,
"Sweet Mother of Jesus, I never seen nothin' like that before and I've
been putting in septic tanks for over twenty years."

--snip--

Oops, I just found another one. Sorry. ;)
--snip--

So, this guy goes into a bar carrying an octopus, and he bets the
crowd $50 that the octopus can play any musical instrument like a pro.
People laugh.

First, someone leads the octopus over to a piano. The octopus plays
it beautifully, a haunting concerto. Next, someone brings out a
violin,
and the octopus plays that instrument like a pro. The owner of the
octopus collects on both bets.

Finally, someone brings out bagpipes. The octopus stares at it for a
long time, and finally tries to take it apart. Its owners gets it to
stop, and asks the octopus, "What's the matter with you? Play the
bagpipes!"

The octopus answers, "Play it? If I can get its pajamas off, I want
to screw it!"

--snip--

--
Every day above ground is a Good Day(tm).
-----------