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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Bimetalic domes (digression, explosive welding, copper clad cookware)
"Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message ... Explosive welding. Simple as that. Martin N_Cook wrote: Interesting , but no further forward. Looks as though these froststats will remain froststats. Surprising ping and bounce as much as six inches on change of state, the loud ping is somewhat damped when inside the casing. Need freezer spray to change the state of these discs (hysteresis and all that). When back to body temp I tried grinding a spot in the centre of the concave side, no change in set temp. Tried 4 diametrical marks on the concave side , no change in response. Tried deeper but small 8 cuts just on the perphery, now no ping but slowly migrates from one state to the other , still requiring freezer spray. I wonder how they "weld" these 2 materials together. (sorry for the digression.) huh! yesterday i was going to ask how they make copper clad stainless steel cookware but i thought it was too dumb and too trivial a question to ask. couple days ago i had a copper clad stainless pan delaminate the copper cladding and was stunned. made me wonder how they attach it in the first place. i'm guessing some sort of furnace brazing process(?). this pan is probably over 50 years old, i think this is one of the pans my mother got as a wedding present in the 50's. i've seen stuff (on tv and in books) about explosive welding but am totally assuming that's NOT how they make copper clad cookware. http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/delamination.jpg b.w. |
#2
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Bimetalic domes (digression, explosive welding, copper clad cookware)
"William Wixon" wrote in message ... huh! yesterday i was going to ask how they make copper clad stainless steel cookware but i thought it was too dumb and too trivial a question to ask. couple days ago i had a copper clad stainless pan delaminate the copper cladding and was stunned. made me wonder how they attach it in the first place. i'm guessing some sort of furnace brazing process(?). this pan is probably over 50 years old, i think this is one of the pans my mother got as a wedding present in the 50's. i've seen stuff (on tv and in books) about explosive welding but am totally assuming that's NOT how they make copper clad cookware. http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/delamination.jpg That is really wild. I have never heard of these delaminating. Was there something you did like overheat the pot or something? -- Roger Shoaf About the time I had mastered getting the toothpaste back in the tube, then they come up with this striped stuff. |
#3
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how they do it (digression, explosive welding, copper clad cookware)
"William Wixon" wrote in message ... (sorry for the digression.) huh! yesterday i was going to ask how they make copper clad stainless steel cookware but i thought it was too dumb and too trivial a question to ask. couple days ago i had a copper clad stainless pan delaminate the copper cladding and was stunned. made me wonder how they attach it in the first place. i'm guessing some sort of furnace brazing process(?). this pan is probably over 50 years old, i think this is one of the pans my mother got as a wedding present in the 50's. i've seen stuff (on tv and in books) about explosive welding but am totally assuming that's NOT how they make copper clad cookware. http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/delamination.jpg b.w. Here is how: http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/41...scription.html |
#4
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Bimetalic domes (digression, explosive welding, copper clad cookware)
"Roger Shoaf" wrote in message ... That is really wild. I have never heard of these delaminating. Was there something you did like overheat the pot or something? -- Roger Shoaf probably in it's 50 years of use it might've been overheated, there's no specific recent incident that i'm aware of though. for months and months when i put the pot on the stove i could hear little "pops" of steam explosions in between the copper and stainless, i figured something was going on but i assumed it was a pin hole in the copper or something. i think it happened eventually over time, and it probably wouldn't've even come off completely except i stacked it inside another pot the same size and when i lifted the one pot out of the other the copper stayed behind (which startled me). maybe some long slow electrolytic reaction? once water started getting in there, that ultra thin gap, wicked in by capillary action, it just kept getting worse and worse? probably a combination of an overheating incident and water getting in there? i mean, this is not an earth shattering event but just when someone posted about laminated metal, and "explosive welding" it reminded me of something i wanted to post yesterday but thought was too uninteresting to bother you all with. b.w. |
#5
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how they do it (digression, explosive welding, copper clad cookware)
"Roger Shoaf" wrote in message ... -snip- Here is how: http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/41...scription.html come to think of it, that's something i've wondered about too. even more. how in the heck do they make aluminum stick to stainless steel, and for thousands of heating cycles. it endures terrible abuse, fluctuations in heat thousands of times, probably like "shock cooling" too (i have no idea if that's an actual term)(ok, how about "quenching"?). i tried to read that article and tried to understand it as best i can and it still amazes me they're able to reliably get aluminum to stick to stainless steel, and copper to stainless too (under/after thousands of heating cycles). the article talks about bringing the two metals together under great pressure, or putting them through a rolling mill. wow. weird. i wouldn't think putting them through a rolling mill would make them stick, more like probably resist to an even greater degree wanting to stick together, like work hardening them both. and so like they make a round disc of copper stick to a sheet of stainless, but they can accurately register it?! hey, i guess for that matter, aren't some u.s. coins bimetallic? i know they can get dissimilar metals to stick together using explosive welding, but how to they do it otherwise? that's, as far as i know, a very rare and extremely limited technique. b.w. |
#6
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how they do it (digression, explosive welding, copper clad cookware)
"William Wixon" wrote in
: snip hey, i guess for that matter, aren't some u.s. coins bimetallic? i know they can get dissimilar metals to stick together using explosive welding, but how to they do it otherwise? that's, as far as i know, a very rare and extremely limited technique. US coins used to be explosively welded. I assuem that is still what they do. The use large thick sheets, and then roll them out thin. That way they get a lot of welded metal per bang. Doug White |
#7
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how they do it (digression, explosive welding, copper clad cookware)
On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 01:46:25 -0600, "William Wixon"
wrote: come to think of it, that's something i've wondered about too. even more. how in the heck do they make aluminum stick to stainless steel, and for thousands of heating cycles. it endures terrible abuse, fluctuations in heat thousands of times, probably like "shock cooling" too (i have no idea if that's an actual term)(ok, how about "quenching"?). i tried to read that article and tried to understand it as best i can and it still amazes me they're able to reliably get aluminum to stick to stainless steel, and copper to stainless too (under/after thousands of heating cycles). the article talks about bringing the two metals together under great pressure, or putting them through a rolling mill. wow. weird. i wouldn't think putting them through a rolling mill would make them stick, more like probably resist to an even greater degree wanting to stick together, like work hardening them both. and so like they make a round disc of copper stick to a sheet of stainless, but they can accurately register it?! hey, i guess for that matter, aren't some u.s. coins bimetallic? i know they can get dissimilar metals to stick together using explosive welding, but how to they do it otherwise? that's, as far as i know, a very rare and extremely limited technique. b.w. I remember reading that the process used by the Mint for forming tri-clad coins was invented (patented?) by the company that makes the very good but outrageously expensive All-Clad cookware. I think that their sucess at the coin process led them to introduce the cookware. Joe |
#8
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how they do it (digression, explosive welding, copper clad cookware)
"Joe" wrote in message ... On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 01:46:25 -0600, "William Wixon" wrote: I remember reading that the process used by the Mint for forming tri-clad coins was invented (patented?) by the company that makes the very good but outrageously expensive All-Clad cookware. I think that their sucess at the coin process led them to introduce the cookware. Joe DuPont patented the process of explosion welding that was originally used for the clad coins, but they stopped using the method somewhere along the line and now use some sort of rolling method to do it. http://www.dynamicmaterials.com/data...%20History.pdf -- Roger Shoaf If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent. |
#9
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how they do it (digression, explosive welding, copper clad cookware)
"Roger Shoaf" wrote in message ... "Joe" wrote in message ... On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 01:46:25 -0600, "William Wixon" wrote: I remember reading that the process used by the Mint for forming tri-clad coins was invented (patented?) by the company that makes the very good but outrageously expensive All-Clad cookware. I think that their sucess at the coin process led them to introduce the cookware. Joe DuPont patented the process of explosion welding that was originally used for the clad coins, but they stopped using the method somewhere along the line and now use some sort of rolling method to do it. http://www.dynamicmaterials.com/data...%20History.pdf -- Roger Shoaf If you are not part of the solution, you are not dissolved in the solvent. Kaiser Steel figured out the original Aluminum to steel "welding" Was used in the armor plating of tanks. Abrams I think. |
#10
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how they do it (digression, explosive welding, copper clad cookware)
Bill McKee wrote: Kaiser Steel figured out the original Aluminum to steel "welding" Was used in the armor plating of tanks. Abrams I think. Armco steel, (Now A-K Steel) developed the aluminum clad stainless steel used for catalytic converters. It was great for body work, too. -- The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary! |
#11
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how they do it (digression, explosive welding, copper clad cookware)
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message m... Bill McKee wrote: Kaiser Steel figured out the original Aluminum to steel "welding" Was used in the armor plating of tanks. Abrams I think. Armco steel, (Now A-K Steel) developed the aluminum clad stainless steel used for catalytic converters. It was great for body work, too. -- The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary! I got to tour the Armco rolling mill in Middletown, OH when it opened. One of the more impressive experiences. 50 ton block of steel goes into an oven to get red hot and then sheared off in to manageable pieces. That eventually are rolled out to very long sheets of steel. Those big rolls of steel you see at times. |
#12
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Bimetalic domes (digression, explosive welding, copper cladcookware)
Wareever pot so it looks like - Might have been electro-spotted in a press.
Looks like some heat spots here and there and in a ring. Martin William Wixon wrote: "Martin H. Eastburn" wrote in message ... Explosive welding. Simple as that. Martin N_Cook wrote: Interesting , but no further forward. Looks as though these froststats will remain froststats. Surprising ping and bounce as much as six inches on change of state, the loud ping is somewhat damped when inside the casing. Need freezer spray to change the state of these discs (hysteresis and all that). When back to body temp I tried grinding a spot in the centre of the concave side, no change in set temp. Tried 4 diametrical marks on the concave side , no change in response. Tried deeper but small 8 cuts just on the perphery, now no ping but slowly migrates from one state to the other , still requiring freezer spray. I wonder how they "weld" these 2 materials together. (sorry for the digression.) huh! yesterday i was going to ask how they make copper clad stainless steel cookware but i thought it was too dumb and too trivial a question to ask. couple days ago i had a copper clad stainless pan delaminate the copper cladding and was stunned. made me wonder how they attach it in the first place. i'm guessing some sort of furnace brazing process(?). this pan is probably over 50 years old, i think this is one of the pans my mother got as a wedding present in the 50's. i've seen stuff (on tv and in books) about explosive welding but am totally assuming that's NOT how they make copper clad cookware. http://www.frontiernet.net/~wwixon/delamination.jpg b.w. |
#13
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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how they do it (digression, explosive welding, copper clad cookware)
Bill McKee wrote: "Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message m... Bill McKee wrote: Kaiser Steel figured out the original Aluminum to steel "welding" Was used in the armor plating of tanks. Abrams I think. Armco steel, (Now A-K Steel) developed the aluminum clad stainless steel used for catalytic converters. It was great for body work, too. -- The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary! I got to tour the Armco rolling mill in Middletown, OH when it opened. One of the more impressive experiences. 50 ton block of steel goes into an oven to get red hot and then sheared off in to manageable pieces. That eventually are rolled out to very long sheets of steel. Those big rolls of steel you see at times. I lived near the 'Project 600' plant for 20+ years. The original 'rolling mill' was built in the late 1800s. 'Project 600' was its replacement and the first computerized steel mill in the US. The air was red with rust, until the old mill was decommissioned, years after 'Project 600' was in full operation. It was used to make specialty steels, while 'Project 600' made steel for the big three auto companies and several companies that built major appliances. It also made the steel skin for their 'Armco Steel Buildings' division. Early pilots used the red cloud as a navigation aid. Some days it could be spotted 100 miles away. The original plant had so much of that fine rust clinging to the inside walls and roof that part of the complex collapsed. I had a friend who was their analytic chemist. He did all the stack sampling tests, as well as chemical testing of the various alloys. He got me a few pieces of aluminized stainless in the late '80s to repair the sliding doors on my stepvan. That stuff was hard to drill! -- The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary! |
#14
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how they do it (digression, explosive welding, copper clad cookware)
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message ... Bill McKee wrote: "Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message m... Bill McKee wrote: Kaiser Steel figured out the original Aluminum to steel "welding" Was used in the armor plating of tanks. Abrams I think. Armco steel, (Now A-K Steel) developed the aluminum clad stainless steel used for catalytic converters. It was great for body work, too. -- The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary! I got to tour the Armco rolling mill in Middletown, OH when it opened. One of the more impressive experiences. 50 ton block of steel goes into an oven to get red hot and then sheared off in to manageable pieces. That eventually are rolled out to very long sheets of steel. Those big rolls of steel you see at times. I lived near the 'Project 600' plant for 20+ years. The original 'rolling mill' was built in the late 1800s. 'Project 600' was its replacement and the first computerized steel mill in the US. The air was red with rust, until the old mill was decommissioned, years after 'Project 600' was in full operation. It was used to make specialty steels, while 'Project 600' made steel for the big three auto companies and several companies that built major appliances. It also made the steel skin for their 'Armco Steel Buildings' division. Early pilots used the red cloud as a navigation aid. Some days it could be spotted 100 miles away. The original plant had so much of that fine rust clinging to the inside walls and roof that part of the complex collapsed. I had a friend who was their analytic chemist. He did all the stack sampling tests, as well as chemical testing of the various alloys. He got me a few pieces of aluminized stainless in the late '80s to repair the sliding doors on my stepvan. That stuff was hard to drill! -- The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary! I remember seeing a red cloud above some buildings. Was 1968 and I worked for NCR in those days and wife and I went down to tour the plant when they opened it to the public for the grand opening. Was in Dayton for a class. Growing up 10 blocks from San Francisco bay, did not see a lot of rolling mills here. |
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