Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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--Mostly made of wood, but lotsa machining involved too.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/steambo...7622722319686/

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Currently broke and
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : looking for a job...
www.nmpproducts.com
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"steamer" wrote in message
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--Mostly made of wood, but lotsa machining involved too.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/steambo...7622722319686/

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Currently broke and
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : looking for a job...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---


Looks nice, Ed. Why so many?

--
Ed Huntress


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Wonderful work, thank you for posting.
Alway love your contributions.
Bert
"steamer" wrote in message
...
--Mostly made of wood, but lotsa machining involved too.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/steambo...7622722319686/

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Currently broke and
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : looking for a job...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---



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On 03 Nov 2009 03:56:43 GMT, steamer wrote:

--Mostly made of wood, but lotsa machining involved too.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/steambo...7622722319686/


Nyahh, you hadda finish something to make the rest of us look bad,
dintcha?
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On 03 Nov 2009 03:56:43 GMT, steamer wrote:

--Mostly made of wood, but lotsa machining involved too.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/steambo...7622722319686/



Looks like 6 somethings.

Nice work.

Thank You,
Randy

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Ed Huntress wrote:
Looks nice, Ed. Why so many?

--Had to make a set of jigs to do 'em right so it seemed kinda silly
to only use 'em once. Gonna give one to my woodworking guru, one will be a
portable 'resume' for job hunting and others for special occasion gifts.

--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Currently broke and
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : looking for a job...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---
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Randy wrote:
Looks like 6 somethings.

--Design came from a very kewl book called "Making Mechanical
Marvels in Wood", now out of print but maybe you can get one from a library.
It's chock full of kewl mechanisms that can be fabbed from wood.
--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Currently broke and
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : looking for a job...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---
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"steamer" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
Looks nice, Ed. Why so many?

--Had to make a set of jigs to do 'em right so it seemed kinda silly
to only use 'em once. Gonna give one to my woodworking guru, one will be a
portable 'resume' for job hunting and others for special occasion gifts.


Very nice. I thought maybe they were going to some schools or something.
They look like good demonstration pieces.

--
Ed Huntress


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"Ed Huntress" wrote in
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Very nice. I thought maybe they were going to some schools or
something. They look like good demonstration pieces.


Funny you should mention that, I used that book to create a series of
projects for a manufacturing tech. class back in 2001. They were great to
teach a variety of machine processes, including the requirement that at
least on operation had to be done with CNC. (they could even drill holes
with the software we had...sorry couldn't resist)

The mechanisms in the book were great for teaching manufacturing and the
finished mechanisms, they were taken by teachers to use as teaching aids.


Doc
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"Doc" wrote in message
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"Ed Huntress" wrote in
:


Very nice. I thought maybe they were going to some schools or
something. They look like good demonstration pieces.


Funny you should mention that, I used that book to create a series of
projects for a manufacturing tech. class back in 2001. They were great to
teach a variety of machine processes, including the requirement that at
least on operation had to be done with CNC. (they could even drill holes
with the software we had...sorry couldn't resist)

The mechanisms in the book were great for teaching manufacturing and the
finished mechanisms, they were taken by teachers to use as teaching aids.


Doc


Your experience probably agrees with that I've heard from many teachers,
that a physical example of what's being taught is a tremendous help both in
explaining the lesson, and, even more importantly, cementing it in the
students' memories. That's why I've built demonstration pieces for several
of my son's classes when he was in school. The tin-can electric motor was a
particular winner.

It's also a probable reason that physics was my best subject in high school,
and why I remember so much of it. We built equipment to demonstrate
practically everything. I even built a ruby-rod laser that was pumped with a
No. 25 photographic flash bulb in an elliptical reflector.

--
Ed Huntress




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"Ed Huntress" wrote in
:

The mechanisms in the book were great for teaching manufacturing and
the finished mechanisms, they were taken by teachers to use as
teaching aids.


Doc


Your experience probably agrees with that I've heard from many
teachers, that a physical example of what's being taught is a
tremendous help both in explaining the lesson, and, even more
importantly, cementing it in the students' memories. That's why I've
built demonstration pieces for several of my son's classes when he was
in school. The tin-can electric motor was a particular winner.

It's also a probable reason that physics was my best subject in high
school, and why I remember so much of it. We built equipment to
demonstrate practically everything. I even built a ruby-rod laser that
was pumped with a No. 25 photographic flash bulb in an elliptical
reflector.


Absolutely, I am convinced that a lot of machinists are tactile learners
and cannot count the number of times that students have told me, "I learn
best when I can have the real thing to figure out as opposed to reading the
manual". My guess is that a lot of the people in this group are of that
ilk.
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Doc wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in
:

The mechanisms in the book were great for teaching manufacturing and
the finished mechanisms, they were taken by teachers to use as
teaching aids.


Doc

Your experience probably agrees with that I've heard from many
teachers, that a physical example of what's being taught is a
tremendous help both in explaining the lesson, and, even more
importantly, cementing it in the students' memories. That's why I've
built demonstration pieces for several of my son's classes when he was
in school. The tin-can electric motor was a particular winner.

It's also a probable reason that physics was my best subject in high
school, and why I remember so much of it. We built equipment to
demonstrate practically everything. I even built a ruby-rod laser that
was pumped with a No. 25 photographic flash bulb in an elliptical
reflector.


Absolutely, I am convinced that a lot of machinists are tactile learners
and cannot count the number of times that students have told me, "I learn
best when I can have the real thing to figure out as opposed to reading the
manual". My guess is that a lot of the people in this group are of that
ilk.


I'd go much further than that.

I know of no one who learns better from text than from doing it themselves,
particularly with the guidance of an expert. Machining, electronics, math,
needlepoint ... the subject does not seem to matter a bit.

Personally, I'm almost hopeless in learning from plain text. There are just
too many ways to phrase a concept in an opaque manner.

Simple example: In my machining class, the instructor showed how to quickly
(and easily) open and close a "C" clamp by hanging on to the handle and
swinging the body of the clamp radially about the screw thread. By physical
example, we all got the concept within a second or so. I guarantee that
my explanation would be perfectly useless to some and somewhat dangerous
to others simply because no two people think exactly alike (and no one
person thinks exactly the same way over the period of an hour or so.)

Sounds like a good Mythbusters episode.

--Winston
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On Mon, 9 Nov 2009 14:20:46 +0000 (UTC), Doc
wrote:

snip
I am convinced that a lot of machinists are tactile learners
and cannot count the number of times that students have told me, "I learn
best when I can have the real thing to figure out as opposed to reading the
manual". My guess is that a lot of the people in this group are of that
ilk.


I learn best when I can fuddle around with the item for
awhile and then read a good manual/instruction later. Then I
can fill in the details I couldn't figure out. Things I
learn this way stick with me much longer than either reading
or playing by themselves will.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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I am convinced that a lot of machinists are tactile learners
and cannot count the number of times that students have told me, "I learn
best when I can have the real thing to figure out as opposed to reading
the
manual". My guess is that a lot of the people in this group are of that
ilk.


I sure know that with welding, I can show a guy more in a day than he can
get in a week out of a book. I don't think it's so much the people with
such things as welding or machining, but books would be better on such
subjects as medical or surveying or astronomy or more thought related
activities.

Steve


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Winston wrote in
:


Absolutely, I am convinced that a lot of machinists are tactile
learners and cannot count the number of times that students have told
me, "I learn best when I can have the real thing to figure out as
opposed to reading the manual". My guess is that a lot of the people
in this group are of that ilk.


I'd go much further than that.

I know of no one who learns better from text than from doing it
themselves, particularly with the guidance of an expert. Machining,
electronics, math, needlepoint ... the subject does not seem to
matter a bit.


Actually I have had several students who do exactly that. They take the
written stuff, don't tend to use only texts, and go off to do their own
thing. In fact one of them would rewrite the stuff in his own words as he
had found over time that this was the best way for him to learn. He had
problems if he had to work with others in a group or had to immediately
apply whatever the subject was. These types of learners are few and far
between in my experience, but they do exist.

My own opinion is that there is no one way to teach someone, so the best
method is to let them choose the way they learn best and provide support
for that (within reason).


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Doc wrote:
Winston wrote in
:

Absolutely, I am convinced that a lot of machinists are tactile
learners and cannot count the number of times that students have told
me, "I learn best when I can have the real thing to figure out as
opposed to reading the manual". My guess is that a lot of the people
in this group are of that ilk.

I'd go much further than that.

I know of no one who learns better from text than from doing it
themselves, particularly with the guidance of an expert. Machining,
electronics, math, needlepoint ... the subject does not seem to
matter a bit.


Actually I have had several students who do exactly that. They take the
written stuff, don't tend to use only texts, and go off to do their own
thing. In fact one of them would rewrite the stuff in his own words as he
had found over time that this was the best way for him to learn. He had
problems if he had to work with others in a group or had to immediately
apply whatever the subject was. These types of learners are few and far
between in my experience, but they do exist.

My own opinion is that there is no one way to teach someone, so the best
method is to let them choose the way they learn best and provide support
for that (within reason).


I could not agree more. Hand them the 'tools' and jump out of the way
as much as possible!

Regarding rewriting --
One thing that helped me immensely:
Pretend that I am to teach a class on a given concept.
That really focuses the mind!

I was a tech a prominent electronics company here in Silicon Valley.
A student had been sent to me for mentoring on some basic electronic
principles that were causing him difficulty. The last subject was
electronic impedance; he was particularly anxious because of an
upcoming exam.

As I parroted the usual litany regarding the efficiency advantage of
matching the source, transmission line and load impedances, I stopped
talking. Suddenly, for the first time in my life, I 'got' the gist
on a visceral level. I sat there for a moment doing my best impression
of a 'deer in the headlights'.

I could 'see' that 'impedance' was little more than the ratio of voltage
to current for a particular part at a particular frequency and that if
the E/I ratios of these three parts were the same (at a given frequency)
that power would flow from one to the next with the best efficiency and
least reflection back to the source. My mind's eye recreated the resulting
'bell curve' that would describe the point of maximum power transfer
with respect to frequency.

Holey Underwear!

I asked the student to think of the 'impedance' of a component (or any
part of a transmission line) as being little more than it's ratio of
voltage to current at a given frequency. I mentioned that generally
speaking, 'Low impedance' meant high relative current; that 'High
impedance' meant low relative current. (A gross oversimplification
but a useful visualization tool.)

His eyes lit up and he 'got' it instantly. Smart young man.

A week later, my boss visited wearing a big grin.
Our guy aced the exam! That made my week and 11 years later, it
still makes me grin.

--Winston


--

On YouTube, all the tools have volume controls.
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"Doc" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote in
:

The mechanisms in the book were great for teaching manufacturing and
the finished mechanisms, they were taken by teachers to use as
teaching aids.


Doc


Your experience probably agrees with that I've heard from many
teachers, that a physical example of what's being taught is a
tremendous help both in explaining the lesson, and, even more
importantly, cementing it in the students' memories. That's why I've
built demonstration pieces for several of my son's classes when he was
in school. The tin-can electric motor was a particular winner.

It's also a probable reason that physics was my best subject in high
school, and why I remember so much of it. We built equipment to
demonstrate practically everything. I even built a ruby-rod laser that
was pumped with a No. 25 photographic flash bulb in an elliptical
reflector.


Absolutely, I am convinced that a lot of machinists are tactile learners
and cannot count the number of times that students have told me, "I learn
best when I can have the real thing to figure out as opposed to reading
the
manual". My guess is that a lot of the people in this group are of that
ilk.


Probably so. I'd guess that most people are, actually. And most of us
certainly learn *some* things better by doing.

BTW, from that high school physics class I mentioned, one student got an 800
on his Physics SAT (then called "SAT Achievement" tests). Another got a 795,
and he just skipped over transistors completely, because he couldn't get
them into his head at the time.

And several more had very high scores. Three of us from that group competed
in our state high school Physics competition: one finished 8th, another
16th; the third was 64th in the state. And that was just from a regular
public school class, not Advanced Placement or anything like that.

It made a believer out of me. My wife is pretty deeply into this in a
specialized area, since she teaches handicapped kids. She's always designing
tactile lessons, and lessons where the kids have to put something
together -- usually with glue. g

--
Ed Huntress


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"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 5 Nov 2009 11:32:39 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:
snip
Your experience probably agrees with that I've heard from many teachers,
that a physical example of what's being taught is a tremendous help both
in
explaining the lesson, and, even more importantly, cementing it in the
students' memories.

snip

Although minimal attention is paid to this fact, this has been
known at least as far back as Comenius (and most likely much
earlier).
http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/...-Amos-Comenius

This was rediscovered by John Dewey in the U.S. and applied with
considerable success. {IMNSHO where Dewey got wrapped around the
axle was his attempt to both modify the educational process and
champion "progressive" socio-political reforms at the same time.}
http://www.brainyquote.com/quotes/au...ohn_dewey.html
http://wilderdom.com/experiential/Ex...tialDewey.html

His findings and the U.S. vocational/hands-on education credo can
be encapsulated as:

I hear and I forget.
I see and I remember.
I do and I understand.

Extensive work has been done on "learning styles" in both the
U.S. and Europe, and the traditional sage-on-a stage lecture mode
has been found to be optimal for 10 per cent or less of the
population, although over time most people can more-or-less adapt
to it.

The EEC has instituted "Project Comenius" with hands on
activities and student participation for exactly this reason.
http://project-comenius.eu/
[google on Project Comenius for c. 34.5 k hits]
also see
http://ec.europa.eu/education/lifelo...e/doc82_en.htm
This has been expanded by "Project Leonardo" with even more
emphasis on vocational/hands-on
http://www.leonardo.org.uk/
http://ec.europa.eu/education/progra...onardo_en.html

{For the traditional learners and the educational traditionalists
they have developed "Project Erasmus"
[google on Project Erasmus for c. 41.9 k hits]}
http://ec.europa.eu/education/lifelo...e/doc80_en.htm

Note that even Project Erasmus is gradually shifting to "hands
on" for the less academic subjects.
http://www.cmepius.si/files/cmepius/...ijavitelje.pdf

The sage-on-the-stage lecture mode remains dominant for several
reasons, a few of which a
(1) We all tend to teach the way we were taught.
(2) It is one of the most efficient methods of instruction in
terms of students per instructor. [How effective it is open to
question.]
(3) It is clean and neat, and no messes are created.
(4) "Objective" pencil and paper tests are much easier/quicker to
grade than student projects or performances.
(5) There is much less chance for a student to be injured setting
and listening to someone drone on than when actively engaged in
an activity. Injuries lead to lawsuits.
(6) Desks and blackboards are general purpose, low maintenance
and low cost. Materials/equipment for hands-on learning tend to
be special purpose, high maintenance, and high cost.

Note that this only covers *HOW* things should be taught. *WHAT*
should be taught is another, perhaps even bigger "can of worms,"

For what Europe is doing as we continue to squabble about "no
child left behind" see http://ec.europa.eu/education/index_en.htm


Unka' George [George McDuffee]


Very interesting stuff, George. I'll try to go through the rest of it
tonight.

--
Ed Huntress


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