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Default DANGER! Gun question .....

For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model 12.
Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?

Steve


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"SteveB" wrote in message
...
For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model 12.
Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?

Steve


'Never shot a coyote, but I've shot two .22/250s, one on an '03 with a
recessed bolt face (Arisaka-style); one on an early Savage 110.

As an old varmint hunter, it's one of my favorite cartridges. It will really
reach out and it has plenty of power for coyotes. I killed a 55-pound
javelina with a smaller .22 than that -- a .223 -- and he got no more than 5
feet before dropping dead.

Most people will tell you that it's hell on barrels but new Savages may have
that licked. Watch out with the handloads; it's easy to run them well over
50,000 CUP if you aren't careful. However, when I shot .22/250s they were
wildcats -- which tells you how long ago that was. g They're probably
tamed now that they're a commercial cartridge. They had a reputation for
requiring experimenting with handloads to get good accuracy, a lot like the
..220 Swift.

--
Ed Huntress


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Default DANGER! Gun question .....

Ed Huntress wrote:
"SteveB" wrote in message
...
For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model
12. Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?

Steve


'Never shot a coyote, but I've shot two .22/250s, one on an '03 with a
recessed bolt face (Arisaka-style); one on an early Savage 110.


Had a couple myself . The Rem 788 semi-heavy was the best ...

As an old varmint hunter, it's one of my favorite cartridges. It will
really reach out and it has plenty of power for coyotes. I killed a
55-pound javelina with a smaller .22 than that -- a .223 -- and he
got no more than 5 feet before dropping dead.


Excellent accuracy with the right handload - which ain't necessarily the
hottest one . Useta pot rockchucks at 300+ yards ... pretty gory .

Most people will tell you that it's hell on barrels but new Savages
may have that licked. Watch out with the handloads; it's easy to run
them well over 50,000 CUP if you aren't careful. However, when I shot
.22/250s they were wildcats -- which tells you how long ago that was.
g They're probably tamed now that they're a commercial cartridge.
They had a reputation for requiring experimenting with handloads to
get good accuracy, a lot like the .220 Swift.

--
Ed Huntress



What he said . I found that a 52-53 match hp gave about the best accuracy
with moderate (3400-3700) velocities . Moderate loads are also a lot easier
on barrel throats ...

--
Snag
Wish I still had one !


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Default DANGER! Gun question .....

On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:38:32 -0600, the infamous "SteveB"
scrawled the following:

For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model 12.
Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?


Having just read an article about them (can't find the URL or I'd have
linked it), I'm sweeter on the .223.

Some other articles:
http://www.clcweb.net/Hunting/Varmin...armintguns.htm

http://longrangehunting.com/forums/f...t-rifle-24439/


--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson
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On 2009-09-18, SteveB wrote:
For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model 12.
Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?


That seems to be the standard cartridge for that sort of stuff.

i


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"SteveB" writes:

For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model 12.
Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?


Never shot one (either the coyote or the cartridge) but that cartridge
has a great reputation in that application.
--
As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should
be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
and this we should do freely and generously. (Benjamin Franklin)
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"SteveB" wrote in message
...
For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model 12.
Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?

Steve


I used to trap professionally, (two winters before the price crash at the
end of the 80s) but never seemed to have enough money for a good rifle. I
did however read The Trapper and Predator Caller magazine for several years,
and a good quality 22-250 seemed to be the rifle of choice by all the
callers writing articles for them. If you are in circumstance where you
might get multiple targets in rapid succession the usual preference
according to my gunsmith buddy is to glass bed the chamber (thick part of
the barrel) and action and float the barrel.

I had a Ruger mini-14 and it sucked. I never did figure out how to zero it
in until years after I sold it. It did however do a pretty good job of
dropping them if I could hit them.

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"Bob La Londe" writes:

"SteveB" wrote in message
...
For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model
12. Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?

Steve


I used to trap professionally, (two winters before the price crash at
the end of the 80s) but never seemed to have enough money for a good
rifle. I did however read The Trapper and Predator Caller magazine
for several years, and a good quality 22-250 seemed to be the rifle of
choice by all the callers writing articles for them. If you are in
circumstance where you might get multiple targets in rapid succession
the usual preference according to my gunsmith buddy is to glass bed
the chamber (thick part of the barrel) and action and float the
barrel.

I had a Ruger mini-14 and it sucked. I never did figure out how to
zero it in until years after I sold it. It did however do a pretty
good job of dropping them if I could hit them.

I've got one now, and... it sucks. LOUSY accuracy.
--
As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should
be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
and this we should do freely and generously. (Benjamin Franklin)
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"Joe Pfeiffer" wrote in message
...
"Bob La Londe" writes:

"SteveB" wrote in message
...
For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model
12. Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?

Steve


I used to trap professionally, (two winters before the price crash at
the end of the 80s) but never seemed to have enough money for a good
rifle. I did however read The Trapper and Predator Caller magazine
for several years, and a good quality 22-250 seemed to be the rifle of
choice by all the callers writing articles for them. If you are in
circumstance where you might get multiple targets in rapid succession
the usual preference according to my gunsmith buddy is to glass bed
the chamber (thick part of the barrel) and action and float the
barrel.

I had a Ruger mini-14 and it sucked. I never did figure out how to
zero it in until years after I sold it. It did however do a pretty
good job of dropping them if I could hit them.


I've got one now, and... it sucks. LOUSY accuracy.


This might help you. Next time you try to sight it in, take one shot. Make
an adjustment and let it cool down for 20 minutes. Make your next shot, and
repeat. The mini guys I know now say that's the only realistic way to site
one in. Because of the way its assembled after 2-3 shots in rapid
succession the barrel heats up enough to distort in its mounting. That's
why floating the barrel in some guns improves their consistency as they heat
up. Expansion is more uniform, and the stock isn't dragging on it, changing
the heat coefficient of one side of the barrel, or pushing the barrel away
as it expands.

I have talked to a couple different guys who say they sight their guns in
this way, and they can consistently get 2 shots off quickly in the field
with accuracy. They say that it spray bullets worse than a runaway fire
house if they try to drop a whole magazine rapidly though.

I am not convinced. I didn't know all that stuff back when I had mine, but
I have to say no matter what I did do with it I was never happy with how it
performed. Still its worth a try.



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Default DANGER! Gun question .....



"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * -- Thomas Jefferson

______________________________________________

I thought Tom was smatter than that ...

Ill translate ...




Community ethics do not allow anyone to even comercialize .

You cant act as if you are a businessman , or agent .
They wont even speak to you !

If you give the impression you are a professional ,
Doctor,Lawyer saleman , they will cut you out of
all dealings and purchases . Talk quality and utility
or they will drop you . Of Course there is no money .
its all electronic , instant debit .

You never talk about markup , it makes ppl nervous .
They buy in large quantities for the value , there are no Walmarts ,
No contracts , no financing , no "professionals" ,
only inventors and producers .

Its perfection in humans . If you cant understand this , you are
not producing .

To not produce , is a bus ride to Guatemala .

You cant keep your land/house , if you cant compete .
There is no middle class , only the competitive and those
who made a tiny mistake .

Thats why i get excited about the Jap engines . You can
for the first time , create a 1400 lb plane with 300 reliable
HP for under $20,000 .
You could not MAKE the engine for $100,000.

Its really that good . Yamaha tests these on a dyno for hours
at peak HP over 160 .

I invent ( No , Im NOT Hewlet Packard) , ever wonder how to
improve the cheap , centrifugal clutch ( seen on Go-Carts ) .
common drum and shoes with weights to help cent' force .

Control ( servo) Disc can apply the shoes ,
by a slight push on one side ..or

pull shoes off the drum ( even at hi speed ) by acting like
a disc brake .

All control on load side . .

, so cent' force against the engine drum is controlled by
load side / load speed , not engine speed.


Thus you can keep engine speed high and controlled .
Simply modulate the load .

Old method , trys to control engine speed to "control"
engagement . That dont work !

Control disc has many options .
Push it in ( natch on a thrust bearing) and load is started ,
push little to cog load a bit .
( centrifugal shoes are too slow to "stick" or lock up )

To disengage a centrifugal clutch , ya need force to pull the
shoes away from drum . Control disc has lots of power .



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"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
...
For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model 12.
Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?

Steve


'Never shot a coyote, but I've shot two .22/250s, one on an '03 with a
recessed bolt face (Arisaka-style); one on an early Savage 110.

As an old varmint hunter, it's one of my favorite cartridges. It will
really reach out and it has plenty of power for coyotes. I killed a
55-pound javelina with a smaller .22 than that -- a .223 -- and he got no
more than 5 feet before dropping dead.

Most people will tell you that it's hell on barrels but new Savages may
have that licked. Watch out with the handloads; it's easy to run them well
over 50,000 CUP if you aren't careful. However, when I shot .22/250s they
were wildcats -- which tells you how long ago that was. g They're
probably tamed now that they're a commercial cartridge. They had a
reputation for requiring experimenting with handloads to get good
accuracy, a lot like the .220 Swift.

--
Ed Huntress

I recently sold my .240 Gibbs. Probably the most accurate long rifle I've
ever seen! Too bad it was such a pain to fireform brass for it and load
cartridges. That's when I learned of "Cream of Wheat" as a loading
component. If I can ever justify another rifle of that sort it would be a
..220 Swift!


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"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:38:32 -0600, the infamous "SteveB"
scrawled the following:

For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model 12.
Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?


Having just read an article about them (can't find the URL or I'd have
linked it), I'm sweeter on the .223.

Some other articles:
http://www.clcweb.net/Hunting/Varmin...armintguns.htm

http://longrangehunting.com/forums/f...t-rifle-24439/


--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson


I've got a Mini-14 for sale if you're looking.


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"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"SteveB" wrote in message
...
For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model 12.
Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?

Steve


I used to trap professionally, (two winters before the price crash at the
end of the 80s) but never seemed to have enough money for a good rifle. I
did however read The Trapper and Predator Caller magazine for several
years, and a good quality 22-250 seemed to be the rifle of choice by all
the callers writing articles for them. If you are in circumstance where
you might get multiple targets in rapid succession the usual preference
according to my gunsmith buddy is to glass bed the chamber (thick part of
the barrel) and action and float the barrel.

I had a Ruger mini-14 and it sucked. I never did figure out how to zero
it in until years after I sold it. It did however do a pretty good job of
dropping them if I could hit them.


I have 2 Mini-14s and they will both dot an "I" right out of the box. What
was the issue with yours?


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On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 03:54:58 -0400, "Buerste"
wrote:


"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"SteveB" wrote in message
...
For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model 12.
Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?

Steve


I used to trap professionally, (two winters before the price crash at the
end of the 80s) but never seemed to have enough money for a good rifle. I
did however read The Trapper and Predator Caller magazine for several
years, and a good quality 22-250 seemed to be the rifle of choice by all
the callers writing articles for them. If you are in circumstance where
you might get multiple targets in rapid succession the usual preference
according to my gunsmith buddy is to glass bed the chamber (thick part of
the barrel) and action and float the barrel.

I had a Ruger mini-14 and it sucked. I never did figure out how to zero
it in until years after I sold it. It did however do a pretty good job of
dropping them if I could hit them.


I have 2 Mini-14s and they will both dot an "I" right out of the box. What
was the issue with yours?

Mine shot great when I was younger and could see better. It's pre
ranch rifle, so I haven't mounted a scope. The B-Square mount would
interfere with my brass catcher, but maybe I'll try one anyway.

Pete Keillor
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I have a Winchester 22 hornet rifle. I still have not figured out what
are the good uses for it. It was kind of a rash garage sale purchase
and I am still deciding whether I should keep it or not. I have
somewhat too many guns and, perhaps, it would be better to swap it for
a regular .22.

i


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"Buerste" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
...
For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model 12.
Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?

Steve


'Never shot a coyote, but I've shot two .22/250s, one on an '03 with a
recessed bolt face (Arisaka-style); one on an early Savage 110.

As an old varmint hunter, it's one of my favorite cartridges. It will
really reach out and it has plenty of power for coyotes. I killed a
55-pound javelina with a smaller .22 than that -- a .223 -- and he got no
more than 5 feet before dropping dead.

Most people will tell you that it's hell on barrels but new Savages may
have that licked. Watch out with the handloads; it's easy to run them
well over 50,000 CUP if you aren't careful. However, when I shot .22/250s
they were wildcats -- which tells you how long ago that was. g They're
probably tamed now that they're a commercial cartridge. They had a
reputation for requiring experimenting with handloads to get good
accuracy, a lot like the .220 Swift.

--
Ed Huntress

I recently sold my .240 Gibbs. Probably the most accurate long rifle I've
ever seen! Too bad it was such a pain to fireform brass for it and load
cartridges. That's when I learned of "Cream of Wheat" as a loading
component. If I can ever justify another rifle of that sort it would be a
.220 Swift!


Not having a place to shoot varmint rifles anymore, I haven't kept up for
decades. When I was shooting Swifts and .22/250s (1961 - 1964, shooting two
or three times a week through the spring and summer), both cartridges had a
rep for being *very* sensitive to small increases in powder charge. And
since they were wildcats, a lot of them were built on older actions, which
could be challenged by the pressures. Thus, the common use of the
vault-strength Savage 110 (which was based on the equally vault-strong
Enfield) and the modification of Springfield '03s, with the bolt-face
recess. I would hope that modern powders have tamed them both. I was just
learning handloading at that time and I wasn't allowed to load either one of
them.

However, I have to say that real wildcat freaks (I was one, in spades) liked
the fact that they were a little wild and crazy. The velocities of both
were, in those days, astonishing. There were hotter wildcats (.22/06, etc.)
but they were freaks and largely unsuccessful. But the Swift and the
Savage-derived .22/250 were both very successful. Unless you were shooting
in a crosswind, their accuracy out at ranges of 300+ yards was pretty
amazing, to me.

I was in my early teens then and the father of my closest friend was a
well-off medical doctor who had the biggest collection of wildcat rifles I
ever saw. The three of us would go out hunting chucks or crows with a couple
of shorter-range guns (he had a K-Hornet and a .218 Bee); a .222, which was
the wunderkind for accuracy out to a little over 200 yards; a .22/250 or the
Swift; and a .25/06 (also a wildcat at that time), built on a Springfield
and with set triggers. Sometimes he'd bring a .244 Remington, an original
with the 1:12 twist (now called 6 mm and with a 1:9 twist, and a long story)
which was a great varmint gun with the right, very light, bullets. And he
had an early .222 Magnum, which was the predecessor to the .223. A couple of
those were factory cartridges but there were other wildcats in his
collection, too, including a .17 caliber thing and a .20 caliber thing,
neither of which I ever got to shoot.

All of that turned me into a wildcat fanatic but I never owned one of those
guns myself. Around 20 years ago a friend found a (new) gun in California
that I had been searching for all over the country: a Browning 1885 (the
same gun as a Winchester Hi-Wall) in .223. I was flush then and I went for
it, and got a Unertl 12X Varminter scope for it. At that time in NJ you
could hunt chucks with a centerfire rifle, but only on private property. A
friend of mine owned a farm in the western part of the state and I had a lot
of fun with it and killed some groundhogs while I was at it. My plan was to
eventually re-chamber it for .22/250. I used that gun in Arizona, for
javelina, and it was just about perfect in my mind. I put a bullet through
the heart of one with it at a pretty good range, which overcame my "Eastern
tenderfoot" status with the Arizona old-timers I was hunting with. g

Ah, those days are gone. My friend sold his farm, one of my legs partly gave
out and my days of climbing mesas in AZ were over, and the gun languished
here for ten years. So I sold it; it was a pretty prized number and I got
several times what I paid for it. Too bad. Deep down, I still love those hot
..22s, especially the wilder wildcats.

--
Ed Huntress


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"Ignoramus6211" wrote in message
...
I have a Winchester 22 hornet rifle. I still have not figured out what
are the good uses for it. It was kind of a rash garage sale purchase
and I am still deciding whether I should keep it or not. I have
somewhat too many guns and, perhaps, it would be better to swap it for
a regular .22.

i


What model Winchester? The Hornet is a very good cartridge but it's a
short-range varminter, compared to the hotter .22s. If it's legal in your
area for this use, it makes one hell of a fine squirrel gun. g Personally,
I wouldn't shoot a centerfire rifle at squirrels, but I knew someone who
used his Hornet for that and it was deadly. Head shots, of course.

--
Ed Huntress


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"Buerste" wrote in message
...

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"SteveB" wrote in message
...
For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model 12.
Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?

Steve


I used to trap professionally, (two winters before the price crash at the
end of the 80s) but never seemed to have enough money for a good rifle.
I did however read The Trapper and Predator Caller magazine for several
years, and a good quality 22-250 seemed to be the rifle of choice by all
the callers writing articles for them. If you are in circumstance where
you might get multiple targets in rapid succession the usual preference
according to my gunsmith buddy is to glass bed the chamber (thick part of
the barrel) and action and float the barrel.

I had a Ruger mini-14 and it sucked. I never did figure out how to zero
it in until years after I sold it. It did however do a pretty good job
of dropping them if I could hit them.


I have 2 Mini-14s and they will both dot an "I" right out of the box.
What was the issue with yours?


It sprayed bullets like a runaway fire hose. Found out it's the design
because the barrel is trapped. Could done better if I had known more about
rifles back then. See my other reply about sighting one in.

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"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Ignoramus6211" wrote in message
...
I have a Winchester 22 hornet rifle. I still have not figured out what
are the good uses for it. It was kind of a rash garage sale purchase
and I am still deciding whether I should keep it or not. I have
somewhat too many guns and, perhaps, it would be better to swap it for
a regular .22.

i


What model Winchester? The Hornet is a very good cartridge but it's a
short-range varminter, compared to the hotter .22s. If it's legal in your
area for this use, it makes one hell of a fine squirrel gun. g
Personally, I wouldn't shoot a centerfire rifle at squirrels, but I knew
someone who used his Hornet for that and it was deadly. Head shots, of
course.


Might try barking them with it. Seems like to much power though. I had
read about guys barking squirrels with muzzle loaders so I did some
experimenting with my .45 Kentucky rifle many years ago. With slightly less
powder than a pyramid load and a round ball it worked pretty darn good.
Stunned them good, and didn't go ricocheting through the trees. Not sure
how well that small bullet would do at throwing up enough bark to stun them,
but might be worth trying once or twice.

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On 2009-09-18, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ignoramus6211" wrote in message
...
I have a Winchester 22 hornet rifle. I still have not figured out what
are the good uses for it. It was kind of a rash garage sale purchase
and I am still deciding whether I should keep it or not. I have
somewhat too many guns and, perhaps, it would be better to swap it for
a regular .22.

i


What model Winchester? The Hornet is a very good cartridge but it's a
short-range varminter, compared to the hotter .22s. If it's legal in your
area for this use, it makes one hell of a fine squirrel gun. g Personally,
I wouldn't shoot a centerfire rifle at squirrels, but I knew someone who
used his Hornet for that and it was deadly. Head shots, of course.


I cannot recall what model, something like 740 or whatever.

As for squirrels, I had great luck killing them with an air
rifle. (Gamo 1000). This rifle is dead on accurate and drops squirrels
very reliably. I once made 5 shots and hit 4 squirrels. Three died
immediately, and one died under a shed (oops).

I stopped squirrel hunting because they taste very bad compared to
chickens.

That Gamo air rifle is beyond amazing. A lot of fun for just $200
(full retain price at Sports Authority). It does 1,000 fps.

i


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"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Ignoramus6211" wrote in message
...
I have a Winchester 22 hornet rifle. I still have not figured out what
are the good uses for it. It was kind of a rash garage sale purchase
and I am still deciding whether I should keep it or not. I have
somewhat too many guns and, perhaps, it would be better to swap it for
a regular .22.

i


What model Winchester? The Hornet is a very good cartridge but it's a
short-range varminter, compared to the hotter .22s. If it's legal in your
area for this use, it makes one hell of a fine squirrel gun. g
Personally, I wouldn't shoot a centerfire rifle at squirrels, but I knew
someone who used his Hornet for that and it was deadly. Head shots, of
course.


Might try barking them with it. Seems like to much power though.


I don't think it has enough oomph for barking. That's an iffy thing, anyway.
I tried it once with my .45 H&R muzzleloader and I broke the branch right
off the tree, in front of the squirrel, who really looked confused but was
totally unharmed. g

I had read about guys barking squirrels with muzzle loaders so I did some
experimenting with my .45 Kentucky rifle many years ago. With slightly
less powder than a pyramid load and a round ball it worked pretty darn
good. Stunned them good, and didn't go ricocheting through the trees. Not
sure how well that small bullet would do at throwing up enough bark to
stun them, but might be worth trying once or twice.


Jeez, I should have read ahead. Well, you're the second person I've heard
from who got it to work. I always thought there are more cases like mine,
but who knows. I've only tried it once.

The .22 Hornet will drive tacks out to 125 yards, and it's a decent
groundhog gun out to 150 or a little more, if you're used to the ballistics.
At normal squirrel-hunting ranges you should be able to make a head shot
nearly every time.

The K-Hornet is another matter; it gets another 25 - 50 yards. It's a
wildcat cartridge based on a fire-formed Hornet, with squared shoulders.

--
Ed Huntress


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"Ignoramus6211" wrote in message
...
On 2009-09-18, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ignoramus6211" wrote in message
...
I have a Winchester 22 hornet rifle. I still have not figured out what
are the good uses for it. It was kind of a rash garage sale purchase
and I am still deciding whether I should keep it or not. I have
somewhat too many guns and, perhaps, it would be better to swap it for
a regular .22.

i


What model Winchester? The Hornet is a very good cartridge but it's a
short-range varminter, compared to the hotter .22s. If it's legal in your
area for this use, it makes one hell of a fine squirrel gun. g
Personally,
I wouldn't shoot a centerfire rifle at squirrels, but I knew someone who
used his Hornet for that and it was deadly. Head shots, of course.


I cannot recall what model, something like 740 or whatever.


Hmm. 'Don't know that one. Maybe a Model 54 or Model 70? What kind of action
is it?


As for squirrels, I had great luck killing them with an air
rifle. (Gamo 1000). This rifle is dead on accurate and drops squirrels
very reliably. I once made 5 shots and hit 4 squirrels. Three died
immediately, and one died under a shed (oops).


Sometimes you're hunting where the squirrels have been shot at, and it's
hard to get within 60 or 70 yards of them. That's when a Hornet would be
nice. However, you'd better be one heck of a good shot to head-shoot a
squirrel at 70 yards or more. You need at least a tree to rest against.

The bullet carries pretty far when you shoot up on an angle like that. I
don't know specifically what the carry distance is for a Hornet, but it must
be close to two miles. Where I hunt, and even in most states with average
population density, that would be dangerous.


I stopped squirrel hunting because they taste very bad compared to
chickens.


g I think I posted a recipe for Brunswick Stew here once upon a time. The
original is made with squirrel.


That Gamo air rifle is beyond amazing. A lot of fun for just $200
(full retain price at Sports Authority). It does 1,000 fps.

i


sigh In NJ, there are hardly any places you can legally shoot one.

--
Ed Huntress


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On 2009-09-18, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ignoramus6211" wrote in message
...
On 2009-09-18, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ignoramus6211" wrote in message
...
I have a Winchester 22 hornet rifle. I still have not figured out what
are the good uses for it. It was kind of a rash garage sale purchase
and I am still deciding whether I should keep it or not. I have
somewhat too many guns and, perhaps, it would be better to swap it for
a regular .22.

i

What model Winchester? The Hornet is a very good cartridge but it's a
short-range varminter, compared to the hotter .22s. If it's legal in your
area for this use, it makes one hell of a fine squirrel gun. g
Personally,
I wouldn't shoot a centerfire rifle at squirrels, but I knew someone who
used his Hornet for that and it was deadly. Head shots, of course.


I cannot recall what model, something like 740 or whatever.


Hmm. 'Don't know that one. Maybe a Model 54 or Model 70? What kind of action
is it?


I think that it is Model 70.


As for squirrels, I had great luck killing them with an air
rifle. (Gamo 1000). This rifle is dead on accurate and drops squirrels
very reliably. I once made 5 shots and hit 4 squirrels. Three died
immediately, and one died under a shed (oops).


Sometimes you're hunting where the squirrels have been shot at, and it's
hard to get within 60 or 70 yards of them. That's when a Hornet would be
nice. However, you'd better be one heck of a good shot to head-shoot a
squirrel at 70 yards or more. You need at least a tree to rest against.

The bullet carries pretty far when you shoot up on an angle like that. I
don't know specifically what the carry distance is for a Hornet, but it must
be close to two miles. Where I hunt, and even in most states with average
population density, that would be dangerous.


I agree. I would be OK with a .22 for this application, but nothing
beyond.


I stopped squirrel hunting because they taste very bad compared to
chickens.


g I think I posted a recipe for Brunswick Stew here once upon a time. The
original is made with squirrel.


That Gamo air rifle is beyond amazing. A lot of fun for just $200
(full retain price at Sports Authority). It does 1,000 fps.

i


sigh In NJ, there are hardly any places you can legally shoot one.


Fortunately, they are relatively quiet rifles.

i
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"Ignoramus6211" wrote in message
...
On 2009-09-18, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ignoramus6211" wrote in message
...
On 2009-09-18, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ignoramus6211" wrote in message
...
I have a Winchester 22 hornet rifle. I still have not figured out what
are the good uses for it. It was kind of a rash garage sale purchase
and I am still deciding whether I should keep it or not. I have
somewhat too many guns and, perhaps, it would be better to swap it for
a regular .22.

i

What model Winchester? The Hornet is a very good cartridge but it's a
short-range varminter, compared to the hotter .22s. If it's legal in
your
area for this use, it makes one hell of a fine squirrel gun. g
Personally,
I wouldn't shoot a centerfire rifle at squirrels, but I knew someone
who
used his Hornet for that and it was deadly. Head shots, of course.

I cannot recall what model, something like 740 or whatever.


Hmm. 'Don't know that one. Maybe a Model 54 or Model 70? What kind of
action
is it?


I think that it is Model 70.


Well, pard', you'd better find out about that gun before disposing of it, if
you intend to do that. If it's an "old series" (pre-'64) rifle in top
condition, it's worth more than a few bucks. Furthermore, I have no idea of
the numbers produced but an old-series Model 70 in .22 Hornet *has* to be a
fairly rare number. I can't imagine that it was very popular, ever.

--
Ed Huntress



As for squirrels, I had great luck killing them with an air
rifle. (Gamo 1000). This rifle is dead on accurate and drops squirrels
very reliably. I once made 5 shots and hit 4 squirrels. Three died
immediately, and one died under a shed (oops).


Sometimes you're hunting where the squirrels have been shot at, and it's
hard to get within 60 or 70 yards of them. That's when a Hornet would be
nice. However, you'd better be one heck of a good shot to head-shoot a
squirrel at 70 yards or more. You need at least a tree to rest against.

The bullet carries pretty far when you shoot up on an angle like that. I
don't know specifically what the carry distance is for a Hornet, but it
must
be close to two miles. Where I hunt, and even in most states with average
population density, that would be dangerous.


I agree. I would be OK with a .22 for this application, but nothing
beyond.


I stopped squirrel hunting because they taste very bad compared to
chickens.


g I think I posted a recipe for Brunswick Stew here once upon a time.
The
original is made with squirrel.


That Gamo air rifle is beyond amazing. A lot of fun for just $200
(full retain price at Sports Authority). It does 1,000 fps.

i


sigh In NJ, there are hardly any places you can legally shoot one.


Fortunately, they are relatively quiet rifles.

i



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Posts: 5,154
Default DANGER! Gun question .....

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 03:52:30 -0400, the infamous "Buerste"
scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:38:32 -0600, the infamous "SteveB"
scrawled the following:

For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model 12.
Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?


Having just read an article about them (can't find the URL or I'd have
linked it), I'm sweeter on the .223.

Some other articles:
http://www.clcweb.net/Hunting/Varmin...armintguns.htm

http://longrangehunting.com/forums/f...t-rifle-24439/


--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson


I've got a Mini-14 for sale if you're looking.


AC-556, for the errant flock of varmints? evil grinne

--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson


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Default DANGER! Gun question .....

On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 03:54:58 -0400, the infamous "Buerste"
scrawled the following:


"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"SteveB" wrote in message
...
For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model 12.
Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?

Steve


I used to trap professionally, (two winters before the price crash at the
end of the 80s) but never seemed to have enough money for a good rifle. I
did however read The Trapper and Predator Caller magazine for several
years, and a good quality 22-250 seemed to be the rifle of choice by all
the callers writing articles for them. If you are in circumstance where
you might get multiple targets in rapid succession the usual preference
according to my gunsmith buddy is to glass bed the chamber (thick part of
the barrel) and action and float the barrel.

I had a Ruger mini-14 and it sucked. I never did figure out how to zero
it in until years after I sold it. It did however do a pretty good job of
dropping them if I could hit them.


I have 2 Mini-14s and they will both dot an "I" right out of the box. What
was the issue with yours?


How does one dot a capital I, Tawmmy?

--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson
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Default DANGER! Gun question .....

"Bob La Londe" writes:

"Joe Pfeiffer" wrote in message
...
"Bob La Londe" writes:

"SteveB" wrote in message
...
For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model
12. Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?

Steve

I used to trap professionally, (two winters before the price crash at
the end of the 80s) but never seemed to have enough money for a good
rifle. I did however read The Trapper and Predator Caller magazine
for several years, and a good quality 22-250 seemed to be the rifle of
choice by all the callers writing articles for them. If you are in
circumstance where you might get multiple targets in rapid succession
the usual preference according to my gunsmith buddy is to glass bed
the chamber (thick part of the barrel) and action and float the
barrel.

I had a Ruger mini-14 and it sucked. I never did figure out how to
zero it in until years after I sold it. It did however do a pretty
good job of dropping them if I could hit them.


I've got one now, and... it sucks. LOUSY accuracy.


This might help you. Next time you try to sight it in, take one shot.
Make an adjustment and let it cool down for 20 minutes. Make your
next shot, and repeat. The mini guys I know now say that's the only
realistic way to site one in. Because of the way its assembled after
2-3 shots in rapid succession the barrel heats up enough to distort in
its mounting. That's why floating the barrel in some guns improves
their consistency as they heat up. Expansion is more uniform, and the
stock isn't dragging on it, changing the heat coefficient of one side
of the barrel, or pushing the barrel away as it expands.

I have talked to a couple different guys who say they sight their guns
in this way, and they can consistently get 2 shots off quickly in the
field with accuracy. They say that it spray bullets worse than a
runaway fire house if they try to drop a whole magazine rapidly
though.

I am not convinced. I didn't know all that stuff back when I had
mine, but I have to say no matter what I did do with it I was never
happy with how it performed. Still its worth a try.


What they're describing is the only way to get the accuracy up to
"lousy" -- probably a 3 inch circle at 100 yards with that sort of
cooling-off between shots. Shoot at all quickly, and the shots walk on
up the paper (I think it goes up and to the right, though I don't
remember for sure) until after a half dozen it's off the paper
completely. Before somebody misinterprets, no I don't have some sort of
full-auto conversion; I am talking about 'take a shot, aim again, take
another shot...
--
As we enjoy great advantages from the inventions of others, we should
be glad of an opportunity to serve others by any invention of ours;
and this we should do freely and generously. (Benjamin Franklin)
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Buerste wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:38:32 -0600, the infamous "SteveB"
scrawled the following:

For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model 12.
Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?

Having just read an article about them (can't find the URL or I'd have
linked it), I'm sweeter on the .223.

Some other articles:
http://www.clcweb.net/Hunting/Varmin...armintguns.htm

http://longrangehunting.com/forums/f...t-rifle-24439/


--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson


I've got a Mini-14 for sale if you're looking.



Which series is it?

I currently have an early ranch and a 180 series.
Always liked the mini design. They are a very reliable gun and great for
most uses. Not a tack driver (best group I have ever had was a 5 shot
3/4" at 100 yards) but they were never meant to be.


--
Steve W.
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On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 10:12:58 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer
wrote:

"Bob La Londe" writes:

"Joe Pfeiffer" wrote in message
...
"Bob La Londe" writes:

"SteveB" wrote in message
...
For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model
12. Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?

Steve

I used to trap professionally, (two winters before the price crash at
the end of the 80s) but never seemed to have enough money for a good
rifle. I did however read The Trapper and Predator Caller magazine
for several years, and a good quality 22-250 seemed to be the rifle of
choice by all the callers writing articles for them. If you are in
circumstance where you might get multiple targets in rapid succession
the usual preference according to my gunsmith buddy is to glass bed
the chamber (thick part of the barrel) and action and float the
barrel.

I had a Ruger mini-14 and it sucked. I never did figure out how to
zero it in until years after I sold it. It did however do a pretty
good job of dropping them if I could hit them.


I've got one now, and... it sucks. LOUSY accuracy.


This might help you. Next time you try to sight it in, take one shot.
Make an adjustment and let it cool down for 20 minutes. Make your
next shot, and repeat. The mini guys I know now say that's the only
realistic way to site one in. Because of the way its assembled after
2-3 shots in rapid succession the barrel heats up enough to distort in
its mounting. That's why floating the barrel in some guns improves
their consistency as they heat up. Expansion is more uniform, and the
stock isn't dragging on it, changing the heat coefficient of one side
of the barrel, or pushing the barrel away as it expands.

I have talked to a couple different guys who say they sight their guns
in this way, and they can consistently get 2 shots off quickly in the
field with accuracy. They say that it spray bullets worse than a
runaway fire house if they try to drop a whole magazine rapidly
though.

I am not convinced. I didn't know all that stuff back when I had
mine, but I have to say no matter what I did do with it I was never
happy with how it performed. Still its worth a try.


What they're describing is the only way to get the accuracy up to
"lousy" -- probably a 3 inch circle at 100 yards with that sort of
cooling-off between shots. Shoot at all quickly, and the shots walk on
up the paper (I think it goes up and to the right, though I don't
remember for sure) until after a half dozen it's off the paper
completely. Before somebody misinterprets, no I don't have some sort of
full-auto conversion; I am talking about 'take a shot, aim again, take
another shot...


Wow! I'm keeping mine. It shoots way better than that, even hot. It
must be rare as hell.

Pete Keillor
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On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 08:43:37 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 03:54:58 -0400, the infamous "Buerste"
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"SteveB" wrote in message
...
For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model
12. Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?

I used to trap professionally, (two winters before the price crash at
the end of the 80s) but never seemed to have enough money for a good
rifle. I did however read The Trapper and Predator Caller magazine for
several years, and a good quality 22-250 seemed to be the rifle of
choice by all the callers writing articles for them. If you are in
circumstance where you might get multiple targets in rapid succession
the usual preference according to my gunsmith buddy is to glass bed the
chamber (thick part of the barrel) and action and float the barrel.

I had a Ruger mini-14 and it sucked. I never did figure out how to
zero it in until years after I sold it. It did however do a pretty
good job of dropping them if I could hit them.


I have 2 Mini-14s and they will both dot an "I" right out of the box.
What was the issue with yours?


How does one dot a capital I, Tawmmy?


You know you're a good shooter when you can dot your 't's while crossing
your 'i's. ;-)

Cheers!
Rich



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On 2009-09-18, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ignoramus6211" wrote in message
...
On 2009-09-18, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ignoramus6211" wrote in message
...
On 2009-09-18, Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ignoramus6211" wrote in message
...
I have a Winchester 22 hornet rifle. I still have not figured out what
are the good uses for it. It was kind of a rash garage sale purchase
and I am still deciding whether I should keep it or not. I have
somewhat too many guns and, perhaps, it would be better to swap it for
a regular .22.

i

What model Winchester? The Hornet is a very good cartridge but it's a
short-range varminter, compared to the hotter .22s. If it's legal in
your
area for this use, it makes one hell of a fine squirrel gun. g
Personally,
I wouldn't shoot a centerfire rifle at squirrels, but I knew someone
who
used his Hornet for that and it was deadly. Head shots, of course.

I cannot recall what model, something like 740 or whatever.

Hmm. 'Don't know that one. Maybe a Model 54 or Model 70? What kind of
action
is it?


I think that it is Model 70.


Well, pard', you'd better find out about that gun before disposing of it, if
you intend to do that. If it's an "old series" (pre-'64) rifle in top
condition, it's worth more than a few bucks. Furthermore, I have no idea of
the numbers produced but an old-series Model 70 in .22 Hornet *has* to be a
fairly rare number. I can't imagine that it was very popular, ever.


I will check indeed. I think that I will be better with a .22 LR
instead of this one -- or maybe in addition to.

i
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"Pete Keillor" wrote in message
news
On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 10:12:58 -0600, Joe Pfeiffer
wrote:

"Bob La Londe" writes:

"Joe Pfeiffer" wrote in message
...
"Bob La Londe" writes:

"SteveB" wrote in message
...
For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model
12. Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?

Steve

I used to trap professionally, (two winters before the price crash at
the end of the 80s) but never seemed to have enough money for a good
rifle. I did however read The Trapper and Predator Caller magazine
for several years, and a good quality 22-250 seemed to be the rifle of
choice by all the callers writing articles for them. If you are in
circumstance where you might get multiple targets in rapid succession
the usual preference according to my gunsmith buddy is to glass bed
the chamber (thick part of the barrel) and action and float the
barrel.

I had a Ruger mini-14 and it sucked. I never did figure out how to
zero it in until years after I sold it. It did however do a pretty
good job of dropping them if I could hit them.


I've got one now, and... it sucks. LOUSY accuracy.

This might help you. Next time you try to sight it in, take one shot.
Make an adjustment and let it cool down for 20 minutes. Make your
next shot, and repeat. The mini guys I know now say that's the only
realistic way to site one in. Because of the way its assembled after
2-3 shots in rapid succession the barrel heats up enough to distort in
its mounting. That's why floating the barrel in some guns improves
their consistency as they heat up. Expansion is more uniform, and the
stock isn't dragging on it, changing the heat coefficient of one side
of the barrel, or pushing the barrel away as it expands.

I have talked to a couple different guys who say they sight their guns
in this way, and they can consistently get 2 shots off quickly in the
field with accuracy. They say that it spray bullets worse than a
runaway fire house if they try to drop a whole magazine rapidly
though.

I am not convinced. I didn't know all that stuff back when I had
mine, but I have to say no matter what I did do with it I was never
happy with how it performed. Still its worth a try.


What they're describing is the only way to get the accuracy up to
"lousy" -- probably a 3 inch circle at 100 yards with that sort of
cooling-off between shots. Shoot at all quickly, and the shots walk on
up the paper (I think it goes up and to the right, though I don't
remember for sure) until after a half dozen it's off the paper
completely. Before somebody misinterprets, no I don't have some sort of
full-auto conversion; I am talking about 'take a shot, aim again, take
another shot...


Wow! I'm keeping mine. It shoots way better than that, even hot. It
must be rare as hell.


I've heard some people like you say they like theirs and plenty like myself
who could never do very well with theirs. Most of the time I only hear
people tell how good "theirs" is when somebody tells about what a horrible
experience they had with their own. They can't all suck or they wouldn't
keep selling them. I traded mine for a computer hard drive about 16-17
years ago.

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"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Ignoramus6211" wrote in message
...
I have a Winchester 22 hornet rifle. I still have not figured out what
are the good uses for it. It was kind of a rash garage sale purchase
and I am still deciding whether I should keep it or not. I have
somewhat too many guns and, perhaps, it would be better to swap it for
a regular .22.

i

What model Winchester? The Hornet is a very good cartridge but it's a
short-range varminter, compared to the hotter .22s. If it's legal in
your area for this use, it makes one hell of a fine squirrel gun. g
Personally, I wouldn't shoot a centerfire rifle at squirrels, but I knew
someone who used his Hornet for that and it was deadly. Head shots, of
course.


Might try barking them with it. Seems like to much power though.


I don't think it has enough oomph for barking. That's an iffy thing,
anyway. I tried it once with my .45 H&R muzzleloader and I broke the
branch right off the tree, in front of the squirrel, who really looked
confused but was totally unharmed. g

I had read about guys barking squirrels with muzzle loaders so I did some
experimenting with my .45 Kentucky rifle many years ago. With slightly
less powder than a pyramid load and a round ball it worked pretty darn
good. Stunned them good, and didn't go ricocheting through the trees.
Not sure how well that small bullet would do at throwing up enough bark
to stun them, but might be worth trying once or twice.


Jeez, I should have read ahead. Well, you're the second person I've heard
from who got it to work. I always thought there are more cases like mine,
but who knows. I've only tried it once.

The .22 Hornet will drive tacks out to 125 yards, and it's a decent
groundhog gun out to 150 or a little more, if you're used to the
ballistics. At normal squirrel-hunting ranges you should be able to make a
head shot nearly every time.


At "normal" squirrel hunting ranges you should be able to drop them with any
decent pellet gun from when I was a kid. With today's 1000 fps + spring
piston guns it's a gimme. I killed plenty of ground squirrels and gophers
for the 50¢ bounty with my old Daisy 880 just using regular old BBs. 10
pumps and let fly. If you was rich enough to have an actual .22 you was the
king of bounty hunting. In fact I paid for my first .22 rifle shooting
gophers. Was a lot faster than trapping them and a lot more fun.

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"Ignoramus6211" wrote in message
...

I stopped squirrel hunting because they taste very bad compared to
chickens.


And chicken hunting is a lot more fun and challenging with the farmer
shooting back at you.


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Posts: 3,138
Default DANGER! Gun question .....

On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:38:32 -0600, "SteveB"
wrote:

For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model 12.
Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?

Steve


The Savage 12's are good rifles and good value. You might also
consider the CZ550, either American or Varmint. I recently examined
some barrels with a borescope. The several CZ barrels I looked at
compared favorably with custom match-grade barrels, and they were
considerably better than the Savage barrels I examined. The CZ's are
tackdrivers right out of the box. That said, the two Savage 12's in
..22-250 (mine and another guy's) I know about shoot very acceptably
indeed.

Some coyote hunters have told me that they like the Barnes Varmint
Grenade bullets because they do less pelt damage. No exit hole, just
jellied coyote within. I get best accuracy from my 12 in .22-250
with 55 grain Nosler BT's and Hornady V-Max though the VG's would
certainly be accurate enough for coyote out to 500 yards or so.


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Default DANGER! Gun question .....


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Buerste" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
...
For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model
12. Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?

Steve

'Never shot a coyote, but I've shot two .22/250s, one on an '03 with a
recessed bolt face (Arisaka-style); one on an early Savage 110.

As an old varmint hunter, it's one of my favorite cartridges. It will
really reach out and it has plenty of power for coyotes. I killed a
55-pound javelina with a smaller .22 than that -- a .223 -- and he got
no more than 5 feet before dropping dead.

Most people will tell you that it's hell on barrels but new Savages may
have that licked. Watch out with the handloads; it's easy to run them
well over 50,000 CUP if you aren't careful. However, when I shot
.22/250s they were wildcats -- which tells you how long ago that was.
g They're probably tamed now that they're a commercial cartridge. They
had a reputation for requiring experimenting with handloads to get good
accuracy, a lot like the .220 Swift.

--
Ed Huntress

I recently sold my .240 Gibbs. Probably the most accurate long rifle
I've ever seen! Too bad it was such a pain to fireform brass for it and
load cartridges. That's when I learned of "Cream of Wheat" as a loading
component. If I can ever justify another rifle of that sort it would be
a .220 Swift!


Not having a place to shoot varmint rifles anymore, I haven't kept up for
decades. When I was shooting Swifts and .22/250s (1961 - 1964, shooting
two or three times a week through the spring and summer), both cartridges
had a rep for being *very* sensitive to small increases in powder charge.
And since they were wildcats, a lot of them were built on older actions,
which could be challenged by the pressures. Thus, the common use of the
vault-strength Savage 110 (which was based on the equally vault-strong
Enfield) and the modification of Springfield '03s, with the bolt-face
recess. I would hope that modern powders have tamed them both. I was just
learning handloading at that time and I wasn't allowed to load either one
of them.

However, I have to say that real wildcat freaks (I was one, in spades)
liked the fact that they were a little wild and crazy. The velocities of
both were, in those days, astonishing. There were hotter wildcats (.22/06,
etc.) but they were freaks and largely unsuccessful. But the Swift and the
Savage-derived .22/250 were both very successful. Unless you were shooting
in a crosswind, their accuracy out at ranges of 300+ yards was pretty
amazing, to me.

I was in my early teens then and the father of my closest friend was a
well-off medical doctor who had the biggest collection of wildcat rifles I
ever saw. The three of us would go out hunting chucks or crows with a
couple of shorter-range guns (he had a K-Hornet and a .218 Bee); a .222,
which was the wunderkind for accuracy out to a little over 200 yards; a
.22/250 or the Swift; and a .25/06 (also a wildcat at that time), built on
a Springfield and with set triggers. Sometimes he'd bring a .244
Remington, an original with the 1:12 twist (now called 6 mm and with a 1:9
twist, and a long story) which was a great varmint gun with the right,
very light, bullets. And he had an early .222 Magnum, which was the
predecessor to the .223. A couple of those were factory cartridges but
there were other wildcats in his collection, too, including a .17 caliber
thing and a .20 caliber thing, neither of which I ever got to shoot.

All of that turned me into a wildcat fanatic but I never owned one of
those guns myself. Around 20 years ago a friend found a (new) gun in
California that I had been searching for all over the country: a Browning
1885 (the same gun as a Winchester Hi-Wall) in .223. I was flush then and
I went for it, and got a Unertl 12X Varminter scope for it. At that time
in NJ you could hunt chucks with a centerfire rifle, but only on private
property. A friend of mine owned a farm in the western part of the state
and I had a lot of fun with it and killed some groundhogs while I was at
it. My plan was to eventually re-chamber it for .22/250. I used that gun
in Arizona, for javelina, and it was just about perfect in my mind. I put
a bullet through the heart of one with it at a pretty good range, which
overcame my "Eastern tenderfoot" status with the Arizona old-timers I was
hunting with. g

Ah, those days are gone. My friend sold his farm, one of my legs partly
gave out and my days of climbing mesas in AZ were over, and the gun
languished here for ten years. So I sold it; it was a pretty prized number
and I got several times what I paid for it. Too bad. Deep down, I still
love those hot .22s, especially the wilder wildcats.

--
Ed Huntress


The wind sure plays havoc with those little projectiles. I do shoot .223s
now a days but don't even try for sub-minute. My Mini-14s aren't built for
that.


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Default DANGER! Gun question .....


"Steve W." wrote in message
...
Buerste wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Sep 2009 18:38:32 -0600, the infamous "SteveB"
scrawled the following:

For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model
12.
Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?
Having just read an article about them (can't find the URL or I'd have
linked it), I'm sweeter on the .223.

Some other articles:
http://www.clcweb.net/Hunting/Varmin...armintguns.htm

http://longrangehunting.com/forums/f...t-rifle-24439/


--
"To compel a man to subsidize with his taxes the propagation of
ideas which he disbelieves and abhors is sinful and tyrannical."
-- Thomas Jefferson


I've got a Mini-14 for sale if you're looking.



Which series is it?

I currently have an early ranch and a 180 series.
Always liked the mini design. They are a very reliable gun and great for
most uses. Not a tack driver (best group I have ever had was a 5 shot
3/4" at 100 yards) but they were never meant to be.


--
Steve W.


I bought it used in the early '80s, it has no manual bolt hold open.


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Default DANGER! Gun question .....

"Bob La Londe" wrote:

I've heard some people like you say they like theirs and plenty like myself
who could never do very well with theirs. Most of the time I only hear
people tell how good "theirs" is when somebody tells about what a horrible
experience they had with their own. They can't all suck or they wouldn't
keep selling them. I traded mine for a computer hard drive about 16-17
years ago.


Lever action rifles sell well too. Not a type of rifle that is intrinsically capable of
shooting ragged one hole groups at 100 yards. It all boils down to the ability and needs
of the shooter.

Minute of whitetail is all some hunters care about.

Wes
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On Fri, 18 Sep 2009 18:19:38 -0700, Bob La Londe wrote:
"Ed Huntress" wrote in message

The .22 Hornet will drive tacks out to 125 yards, and it's a decent
groundhog gun out to 150 or a little more, if you're used to the
ballistics. At normal squirrel-hunting ranges you should be able to make
a head shot nearly every time.


At "normal" squirrel hunting ranges you should be able to drop them with
any decent pellet gun from when I was a kid. With today's 1000 fps +
spring piston guns it's a gimme. I killed plenty of ground squirrels and
gophers for the 50¢ bounty with my old Daisy 880 just using regular old
BBs. 10 pumps and let fly. If you was rich enough to have an actual .22
you was the king of bounty hunting. In fact I paid for my first .22 rifle
shooting gophers. Was a lot faster than trapping them and a lot more fun.


Once, when I was very young (10 YO), I was visiting the neighbors, and I
saw the dad, with his .22, take two squirrels out of trees, plus a rabbit
running through the brush. I mean, it was on the RUN! and he got it in
two shots.

I was amazed. I also watched him skin them and gut them, but they didn't
invite me for dinner. )-;

Cheers!
Rich

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Default DANGER! Gun question .....


"Buerste" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Buerste" wrote in message
...

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"SteveB" wrote in message
...
For a coyote gun, I'm considering a 22/250. I like the Savage Model
12. Should I consider other calibers, or is this a good choice?

Steve

'Never shot a coyote, but I've shot two .22/250s, one on an '03 with a
recessed bolt face (Arisaka-style); one on an early Savage 110.

As an old varmint hunter, it's one of my favorite cartridges. It will
really reach out and it has plenty of power for coyotes. I killed a
55-pound javelina with a smaller .22 than that -- a .223 -- and he got
no more than 5 feet before dropping dead.

Most people will tell you that it's hell on barrels but new Savages may
have that licked. Watch out with the handloads; it's easy to run them
well over 50,000 CUP if you aren't careful. However, when I shot
.22/250s they were wildcats -- which tells you how long ago that was.
g They're probably tamed now that they're a commercial cartridge.
They had a reputation for requiring experimenting with handloads to get
good accuracy, a lot like the .220 Swift.

--
Ed Huntress

I recently sold my .240 Gibbs. Probably the most accurate long rifle
I've ever seen! Too bad it was such a pain to fireform brass for it and
load cartridges. That's when I learned of "Cream of Wheat" as a loading
component. If I can ever justify another rifle of that sort it would be
a .220 Swift!


Not having a place to shoot varmint rifles anymore, I haven't kept up for
decades. When I was shooting Swifts and .22/250s (1961 - 1964, shooting
two or three times a week through the spring and summer), both cartridges
had a rep for being *very* sensitive to small increases in powder charge.
And since they were wildcats, a lot of them were built on older actions,
which could be challenged by the pressures. Thus, the common use of the
vault-strength Savage 110 (which was based on the equally vault-strong
Enfield) and the modification of Springfield '03s, with the bolt-face
recess. I would hope that modern powders have tamed them both. I was just
learning handloading at that time and I wasn't allowed to load either one
of them.

However, I have to say that real wildcat freaks (I was one, in spades)
liked the fact that they were a little wild and crazy. The velocities of
both were, in those days, astonishing. There were hotter wildcats
(.22/06, etc.) but they were freaks and largely unsuccessful. But the
Swift and the Savage-derived .22/250 were both very successful. Unless
you were shooting in a crosswind, their accuracy out at ranges of 300+
yards was pretty amazing, to me.

I was in my early teens then and the father of my closest friend was a
well-off medical doctor who had the biggest collection of wildcat rifles
I ever saw. The three of us would go out hunting chucks or crows with a
couple of shorter-range guns (he had a K-Hornet and a .218 Bee); a .222,
which was the wunderkind for accuracy out to a little over 200 yards; a
.22/250 or the Swift; and a .25/06 (also a wildcat at that time), built
on a Springfield and with set triggers. Sometimes he'd bring a .244
Remington, an original with the 1:12 twist (now called 6 mm and with a
1:9 twist, and a long story) which was a great varmint gun with the
right, very light, bullets. And he had an early .222 Magnum, which was
the predecessor to the .223. A couple of those were factory cartridges
but there were other wildcats in his collection, too, including a .17
caliber thing and a .20 caliber thing, neither of which I ever got to
shoot.

All of that turned me into a wildcat fanatic but I never owned one of
those guns myself. Around 20 years ago a friend found a (new) gun in
California that I had been searching for all over the country: a Browning
1885 (the same gun as a Winchester Hi-Wall) in .223. I was flush then and
I went for it, and got a Unertl 12X Varminter scope for it. At that time
in NJ you could hunt chucks with a centerfire rifle, but only on private
property. A friend of mine owned a farm in the western part of the state
and I had a lot of fun with it and killed some groundhogs while I was at
it. My plan was to eventually re-chamber it for .22/250. I used that gun
in Arizona, for javelina, and it was just about perfect in my mind. I put
a bullet through the heart of one with it at a pretty good range, which
overcame my "Eastern tenderfoot" status with the Arizona old-timers I was
hunting with. g

Ah, those days are gone. My friend sold his farm, one of my legs partly
gave out and my days of climbing mesas in AZ were over, and the gun
languished here for ten years. So I sold it; it was a pretty prized
number and I got several times what I paid for it. Too bad. Deep down, I
still love those hot .22s, especially the wilder wildcats.

--
Ed Huntress


The wind sure plays havoc with those little projectiles. I do shoot .223s
now a days but don't even try for sub-minute. My Mini-14s aren't built
for that.


That's one of the challenges with high-velocity .22 centerfires. Some of
them are capable of amazing accuracy out to around 300 yards or even more,
but even a slight breeze can really move those bullets around. I've never
shot the .17s or .20s but they're even trickier. And the smaller bullets
have dog-leg type trajectories, which makes it doubly challenging to shoot
them at the longer ranges. All of that is much of what makes it interesting.

If it was just a matter of making the gun shoot straight and having a good
sandbag, shooting 'chucks would be much less interesting. It's a multi-facet
game.

FWIW, which is about nothing g, there's no gun I can think of that
interests me less than a semiauto .22 centerfire with mediocre accuracy.
It's the worst of all worlds unless you have a very specific use for it, and
those uses interest me even less than the guns.

--
Ed Huntress


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