On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 22:23:25 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Gone Fishin'" wrote in message
al-september.org...
Confirmed: sanding these parts 24 hours after spraying 2nd coat and the
paint
is not dry. Gummed up the sand paper.

Boy, does this Rustoleum paint dry slowly... It says 48 hours, but at this
rate it looks like it will be longer.

Is Krylon a better choice? Or...?

Thanks.

Rustoleum is good paint. There are other heavy-duty enamels, from the
majors, but most straight alkyds are going to take a long time to dry hard.
That's just enamel. Rustoleum probably is slower to dry than most. In many
applications, they don't use a second coat. It's better to use a good
primer, and then the top coat will lay on a lot thicker than each coat used
without primer. Get a compatible primer made for use with the enamel.

There are a lot of industrial-type paint systems out there today, including
several polyurethane systems that are tough and that produce a nice finish.
Probably the toughest is two-part polyurethane, which comes in brushable
versions. Don't touch the spray-coat versions unless you study it well. It's
highly toxic and you can't protect yourself with just a respirator.

Rustoleum takes at least a week to get as hard as it ever will, which
isn't very.

There are respirator cartridges that are NIOSH-rated for urethanes.
The more significant issue is getting a good face-to-respirator seal.

Rustoleum takes at least a week to get as hard as it ever will, which
isn't very.

Can you recommend another brand of spray-can paint that you like better?

Thanks.

"Gone Fishin'" wrote in message
...
Rustoleum takes at least a week to get as hard as it ever will, which
isn't very.

Can you recommend another brand of spray-can paint that you like better?

Thanks.

I should wait for Don's opinion, since you asked him, but my opinion is that
none of them are worth the powder to blow them to hell.

If I need to spray paint on something, I use one of my spray rigs -- even
the little Badger "spray can," with a spare tire for an air supply, on
little jobs. It's better than spray cans, and a lot cheaper after you've
done a few jobs. Those Badger thingies are cheap.

You can get much better paints in a regular can than the junk they put in
spray cans.

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 09:43:34 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Gone Fishin'" wrote in message
al-september.org...
Rustoleum takes at least a week to get as hard as it ever will, which
isn't very.

Can you recommend another brand of spray-can paint that you like better?

Thanks.

I should wait for Don's opinion, since you asked him, but my opinion is that
none of them are worth the powder to blow them to hell.

If I need to spray paint on something, I use one of my spray rigs -- even
the little Badger "spray can," with a spare tire for an air supply, on
little jobs. It's better than spray cans, and a lot cheaper after you've
done a few jobs. Those Badger thingies are cheap.

You can get much better paints in a regular can than the junk they put in
spray cans.

I concur.

You can get much better paints in a regular can than the junk they put in
spray cans.

I concur.

For very small projects (this one I'm doing is about 10-12 square inches),
can you buy small quantities of quality paint? Where?

Thanks.

"Gone Fishin'" wrote in message
...
You can get much better paints in a regular can than the junk they put
in
spray cans.

I concur.

For very small projects (this one I'm doing is about 10-12 square inches),
can you buy small quantities of quality paint? Where?

Thanks.

Buy the smallest cans you can get and learn how to seal a paint can well
after using it. I have alkyd resin cans that are 20 years old and the paint
still goes on and dries just fine.

--
Ed Huntress

"Gone Fishin'" wrote in message
...
You can get much better paints in a regular can than the junk they put
in
spray cans.

I concur.

For very small projects (this one I'm doing is about 10-12 square inches),
can you buy small quantities of quality paint? Where?

Thanks.


BTW, I see that the tire/Propel adaptor and the hose come complete with the
sprayer on the "blister pack" offer here, for $17.99:

http://www.ehobbies.com/bad2504.html

If you find that the enamel you're using is too thick to spray well in a
little sprayer, I suggest using this trick before adding thinner: Heat a
saucepan of water and hold the assembled and filled sprayer in the hot (not
boiling; maybe 150 deg. F) water for a couple of minutes. Then wrap it in a
dishtowel while spraying. Watch out for water drips coming off the bottom of
the jar when you spray.

This works with really heavy paint and modest (40 psi or so) spraying
pressures, which is all you should use with that rig -- especially if you're
using a tire for air. g

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 10:31:25 -0700, Gone Fishin'
wrote:

You can get much better paints in a regular can than the junk they put in
spray cans.

I concur.

For very small projects (this one I'm doing is about 10-12 square inches),
can you buy small quantities of quality paint? Where?

Thanks.

The local O'Reilly's auto store was willing to shake up a quarter of a
pint (half a cup) of paint for me. I got a pint which turned out to
be much more than I needed. It was quite expensive, though, about $25
or so.

Terry

On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 10:31:25 -0700, Gone Fishin'
wrote:

You can get much better paints in a regular can than the junk they put in
spray cans.

I concur.

For very small projects (this one I'm doing is about 10-12 square inches),
can you buy small quantities of quality paint? Where?

Thanks.

Depends on what your needs are. As disdainful as I am about
Rustoleum, I do use it now and then. If you use it, use their thinning
oil for spraying. It really does make a difference.

I think Red Devil offers a line of 1-part urethanes in a variety of
colors in 8 oz cans. It's not automotive quality by a long shot but it
ain't half bad.

There are some epoxy paints in rattlecans that are pretty good but you
don't get nearly the control with a rattlecan that you do with an
airbrush or jamb gun. 10 square inches is definitely airbrush
territory. You also don't get the "build" or film thickness because
the stuff in rattlecans is very thin and mostly propellent.

I prefer the Paasche airbrushes to Badger, but they both do a good
job. I think the Paasche is easier to clean and it copes better with
"large" jobs like 10 to 12 square inches. I think they are similar in
cost.

On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 06:43:34 -0700, Ed Huntress wrote
(in article ):

If I need to spray paint on something, I use one of my spray rigs -- even
the little Badger "spray can," with a spare tire for an air supply, on
little jobs. It's better than spray cans, and a lot cheaper after you've
done a few jobs. Those Badger thingies are cheap.

All I see by Badger is the air brushes:

http://www.alliedhobbies.com/catalog.asp?prodid=604276&showprevnext=1

Can you point to the Badger "spray can" device?

Thanks.

"Gone Fishin'" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 06:43:34 -0700, Ed Huntress wrote
(in article ):

If I need to spray paint on something, I use one of my spray rigs -- even
the little Badger "spray can," with a spare tire for an air supply, on
little jobs. It's better than spray cans, and a lot cheaper after you've
done a few jobs. Those Badger thingies are cheap.

All I see by Badger is the air brushes:

http://www.alliedhobbies.com/catalog.asp?prodid=604276&showprevnext=1

Can you point to the Badger "spray can" device?

Thanks.

This is the newest version, I guess. It's a little fancier-looking than
mine, but it looks like it's still the same old suction-type atomizer
device:

http://www.ehobbies.com/bad2504.html

Mine has served me well for around 35 years. I got the tire converter for
it, which I think came with it when I got mine. But I use it most often with
a little compressor. The cans of "Propel" work well, too.

BTW, if you have any metalworking tools, these things are simple as can be
to make, from an old screw-top jar and a couple of aluminum rod scraps. But
you need one that works from which to take the proportions and get them
right.

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 10:28:25 -0700, the infamous Gone Fishin'
scrawled the following:

On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 06:43:34 -0700, Ed Huntress wrote
(in article ):

If I need to spray paint on something, I use one of my spray rigs -- even
the little Badger "spray can," with a spare tire for an air supply, on
little jobs. It's better than spray cans, and a lot cheaper after you've
done a few jobs. Those Badger thingies are cheap.

All I see by Badger is the air brushes:

http://www.alliedhobbies.com/catalog.asp?prodid=604276&showprevnext=1

Can you point to the Badger "spray can" device?

Maybe he meant that the Badger used an air can.

Maybe he was referring to a Critter, as some guys on the Wreck liked.
http://www.amazon.com/Critter-Spray-.../dp/B00006FRPJ

Or maybe he was thinking of the HF spray can you fill yourself.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=65297

--
Good intentions will always be pleaded for every assumption of authority.
It is hardly too strong to say that the Constitution was made to guard
the people against the dangers of good intentions. There are men in all
ages who mean to govern well, but they mean to govern. They promise to
be good masters, but they mean to be masters. --Daniel Webster

On Wed, 02 Sep 2009 19:20:45 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Maybe he meant that the Badger used an air can.

Maybe he was referring to a Critter, as some guys on the Wreck liked.
http://www.amazon.com/Critter-Spray-.../dp/B00006FRPJ

This item must be listed on Amazon's Chinese web site:

Product Description
From the Manufacturer
The Critter Spray Products 22032 118SG Siphon Gun is ideal for the
beginner to serious the woodworker who wants to achieve professional
finishes.

Either that, or the people who write the descriptions shouldn't do so
while texting. g

Joe

On Sep 2, 7:17*am, Gone Fishin' wrote:
Rustoleum takes at least a week to get as hard as it ever will, which
isn't very. *

Can you recommend another brand of spray-can paint that you like better?

Thanks.

I can not remember the brand right now, but I think it was an
appliance company. Anyway they had a one part spray can epoxy that we
used to spray on the heads of staples. We then stapled paneling to 2
by 4s . And the paint did not chip off. The spray cans were not
Rustoleum or Krylon. MIght have been Sherwin-Williams. It was
recommended by the guy that sold the staples. Sorry I can not
remember the brand.

Dan

On Sep 2, 2:17*am, Gone Fishin' wrote:
Rustoleum takes at least a week to get as hard as it ever will, which
isn't very. *

Can you recommend another brand of spray-can paint that you like better?

Thanks.

My experience with this is from painting dozens of motorcycle engine
cases and cylinder fins about 30 years ago, so it may or may not apply
here, but here's what I did.:

After glass beading the surface, clean it with ATF followed by CRC
BraKleen. Warm the part to 250°F, Spray a rather heavy coat of Krylon
flat black enamel. After this dries out (almost immediately on the hot
metal), spray another heavy coat, which will also dry quickly. Let the
part "cure" for a couple of days, sitting out in the sun. The finish
will be closer to glossy than flat.

After doing this, the paint was as tough as nails, and damn near
impossible to remove.

Of course, your mileage may vary.

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 22:23:25 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Gone Fishin'" wrote in message
l-september.org...
Confirmed: sanding these parts 24 hours after spraying 2nd coat and the
paint
is not dry. Gummed up the sand paper.

Boy, does this Rustoleum paint dry slowly... It says 48 hours, but at
this
rate it looks like it will be longer.

Is Krylon a better choice? Or...?

Thanks.

Rustoleum is good paint. There are other heavy-duty enamels, from the
majors, but most straight alkyds are going to take a long time to dry
hard.
That's just enamel. Rustoleum probably is slower to dry than most. In many
applications, they don't use a second coat. It's better to use a good
primer, and then the top coat will lay on a lot thicker than each coat
used
without primer. Get a compatible primer made for use with the enamel.

There are a lot of industrial-type paint systems out there today,
including
several polyurethane systems that are tough and that produce a nice
finish.
Probably the toughest is two-part polyurethane, which comes in brushable
versions. Don't touch the spray-coat versions unless you study it well.
It's
highly toxic and you can't protect yourself with just a respirator.

Rustoleum takes at least a week to get as hard as it ever will, which
isn't very.

There are respirator cartridges that are NIOSH-rated for urethanes.
The more significant issue is getting a good face-to-respirator seal.

You go first. I'll watch. g

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 09:40:02 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Don Foreman" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 22:23:25 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Gone Fishin'" wrote in message
al-september.org...
Confirmed: sanding these parts 24 hours after spraying 2nd coat and the
paint
is not dry. Gummed up the sand paper.

Boy, does this Rustoleum paint dry slowly... It says 48 hours, but at
this
rate it looks like it will be longer.

Is Krylon a better choice? Or...?

Thanks.

Rustoleum is good paint. There are other heavy-duty enamels, from the
majors, but most straight alkyds are going to take a long time to dry
hard.
That's just enamel. Rustoleum probably is slower to dry than most. In many
applications, they don't use a second coat. It's better to use a good
primer, and then the top coat will lay on a lot thicker than each coat
used
without primer. Get a compatible primer made for use with the enamel.

There are a lot of industrial-type paint systems out there today,
including
several polyurethane systems that are tough and that produce a nice
finish.
Probably the toughest is two-part polyurethane, which comes in brushable
versions. Don't touch the spray-coat versions unless you study it well.
It's
highly toxic and you can't protect yourself with just a respirator.

Rustoleum takes at least a week to get as hard as it ever will, which
isn't very.

There are respirator cartridges that are NIOSH-rated for urethanes.
The more significant issue is getting a good face-to-respirator seal.

You go first. I'll watch. g

I've painted several cars with PPG/Ditzler basecoat-clearcoat
urethane. No problems. I renewed the cartridges after each job.

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 09:40:02 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Don Foreman" wrote in message
. ..
On Tue, 1 Sep 2009 22:23:25 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Gone Fishin'" wrote in message
nal-september.org...
Confirmed: sanding these parts 24 hours after spraying 2nd coat and
the
paint
is not dry. Gummed up the sand paper.

Boy, does this Rustoleum paint dry slowly... It says 48 hours, but at
this
rate it looks like it will be longer.

Is Krylon a better choice? Or...?

Thanks.

Rustoleum is good paint. There are other heavy-duty enamels, from the
majors, but most straight alkyds are going to take a long time to dry
hard.
That's just enamel. Rustoleum probably is slower to dry than most. In
many
applications, they don't use a second coat. It's better to use a good
primer, and then the top coat will lay on a lot thicker than each coat
used
without primer. Get a compatible primer made for use with the enamel.

There are a lot of industrial-type paint systems out there today,
including
several polyurethane systems that are tough and that produce a nice
finish.
Probably the toughest is two-part polyurethane, which comes in brushable
versions. Don't touch the spray-coat versions unless you study it well.
It's
highly toxic and you can't protect yourself with just a respirator.

Rustoleum takes at least a week to get as hard as it ever will, which
isn't very.

There are respirator cartridges that are NIOSH-rated for urethanes.
The more significant issue is getting a good face-to-respirator seal.

You go first. I'll watch. g

I've painted several cars with PPG/Ditzler basecoat-clearcoat
urethane. No problems. I renewed the cartridges after each job.

OK. Have you taken an IQ test since you did that, to see if the numbers
still hold up? ggg

Just so people are aware that ordinary paint respirators are NOT up to the
job. From there, they should research it thoroughly.

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 13:41:48 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Don Foreman" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 09:40:02 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...


There are respirator cartridges that are NIOSH-rated for urethanes.
The more significant issue is getting a good face-to-respirator seal.

You go first. I'll watch. g

I've painted several cars with PPG/Ditzler basecoat-clearcoat
urethane. No problems. I renewed the cartridges after each job.

OK. Have you taken an IQ test since you did that, to see if the numbers
still hold up? ggg

Just so people are aware that ordinary paint respirators are NOT up to the
job. From there, they should research it thoroughly.

I've been using a half-face mask from Draeger with the appropriate filter
cartridges while spraying the HLV that I'm still doing up. Using Isocyanate
hardened paint. The mask even gives a decent seal over my straggly beard and
works well enough that I cannot even smell the paint when spraying.

Doesn't stop the symptoms when you do a stupid and spill hardener on your
hands after forgetting your gloves though...


Mark Rand
RTFM

On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 13:41:48 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


I've painted several cars with PPG/Ditzler basecoat-clearcoat
urethane. No problems. I renewed the cartridges after each job.

OK. Have you taken an IQ test since you did that, to see if the numbers
still hold up? ggg

I somehow knew before I opened this post that you were gonna say that,
Ed. G No, I've not taken an IQ test since then and I'm not gonna!
If I've become dumb as a bowl of mice, I don't wanna know and don't
care. I'm happy, enjoy every day of my life, what the hell.

The numbers wouldn't hold up anyway because there's no good baseline.
I was tested a number of times when I was young but they never seemed
to be able to come up with a score. I make no claim of being
particularly bright but my approach to such tests seemed to confound
the testers. I got interested in the more challenging questions, spent
all my time on them. One tester, after looking at my test, said
"engineer, huh?" "Uh, yuh." "It shows." She may have been looking
at my tie, or perhaps my nerdpack pocket protector ...

The Army tested me, as I suppose they test everyone. When I asked them
about my score they wouldn't tell me. Perhaps they figured I didn't
have a need to know. No argument, I was just curious.

The only prospective employer that tested me during an interview visit
for first job after Army made the higest salary offer by a good 20%.
I didn't take it. I liked the people at Honeywell in Minneapolis
better. Never regretted that decision.

Just so people are aware that ordinary paint respirators are NOT up to the
job. From there, they should research it thoroughly.

Roger that! But adequate respirators with filter cartridges
NIOSH-rated for the application aren't expensive, maybe 30 bux as a
guess. I think I paid $18 for mine quite a while ago.

I am very allergic to some of that stuff. I dare not even open a can
of two-part epoxy primer without respirator in place. If I do, I'll
be wheezing for a while. But with respirator I can mix it and shoot
it with no problems. I don't paint cars anymore but I still do small
jobs now and then.

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 2 Sep 2009 13:41:48 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


I've painted several cars with PPG/Ditzler basecoat-clearcoat
urethane. No problems. I renewed the cartridges after each job.

OK. Have you taken an IQ test since you did that, to see if the numbers
still hold up? ggg

I somehow knew before I opened this post that you were gonna say that,
Ed. G No, I've not taken an IQ test since then and I'm not gonna!
If I've become dumb as a bowl of mice, I don't wanna know and don't
care. I'm happy, enjoy every day of my life, what the hell.

The numbers wouldn't hold up anyway because there's no good baseline.
I was tested a number of times when I was young but they never seemed
to be able to come up with a score. I make no claim of being
particularly bright but my approach to such tests seemed to confound
the testers. I got interested in the more challenging questions, spent
all my time on them. One tester, after looking at my test, said
"engineer, huh?" "Uh, yuh." "It shows." She may have been looking
at my tie, or perhaps my nerdpack pocket protector ...

The Army tested me, as I suppose they test everyone. When I asked them
about my score they wouldn't tell me. Perhaps they figured I didn't
have a need to know. No argument, I was just curious.

I've taken about four of them over my life, starting in 5th grade and ending
with an employment test around six or seven years ago. Mine were remarkably
consistent. I thought the last one would show evidence of decline, but it
actually was the highest.

Ah, well, we'll never match Gunner. I hear he tested at 157. Or maybe he
said 154. He probably turned down his invitations to the Glia Society and
Iquadrivium. They were beneath him. d8-)


The only prospective employer that tested me during an interview visit
for first job after Army made the higest salary offer by a good 20%.
I didn't take it. I liked the people at Honeywell in Minneapolis
better. Never regretted that decision.

Just so people are aware that ordinary paint respirators are NOT up to the
job. From there, they should research it thoroughly.

Roger that! But adequate respirators with filter cartridges
NIOSH-rated for the application aren't expensive, maybe 30 bux as a
guess. I think I paid $18 for mine quite a while ago.

I'll be sure to look into it if I ever spray two-part polyurethane. I was
discouraged by the air systems they recommend. More junk in the shop, and a
lot of money.


I am very allergic to some of that stuff. I dare not even open a can
of two-part epoxy primer without respirator in place. If I do, I'll
be wheezing for a while. But with respirator I can mix it and shoot
it with no problems. I don't paint cars anymore but I still do small
jobs now and then.

Regarding your reaction to epoxy, do you remember if it was always that way,
or if the problem built up over years of exposure? You can get an
accumulative reaction to epoxy to the point where you can't touch CURED
epoxy without developing a rash.

At one time I used quite a lot of it, and it always worried me. I was always
careful with the stuff when laminating with it, using respirators and
gloves, etc.

--
Ed Huntress