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Default Sub panel to a sub panel

I am building a detatched garage about 75 feet from my attached
garage. I have my main panel and a sub panel beside each other in my
attached garage. The sub panel only has my small upstairs heat pump/
air conditioner for a bonus room hooked to it as well as a 50 amp plug
for a small welder I almost never use. Can I run a sub panel in my new
detached garage/workshop from the sub panel in my current attached
garage?

If so, do I need another ground rod at the detached garage?

If it helps, I can remove the 50 amp welding plug because I only plan
to wel in the detached garage anyway.

I have 200 amp service in my main panel. I think the sub panel next to
it I bought was either a 50 or 100 amp panel but like I sais, the only
thing on it is the 1.5 ton heat pump. It is usually turned off as the
upstairs is a play room for the kids.

I added the sub panel because all of the breakers in my main pannel
were almost full.
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Default Sub panel to a sub panel

In article , stryped wrote:
I am building a detatched garage about 75 feet from my attached
garage. I have my main panel and a sub panel beside each other in my
attached garage. The sub panel only has my small upstairs heat pump/
air conditioner for a bonus room hooked to it as well as a 50 amp plug
for a small welder I almost never use. Can I run a sub panel in my new
detached garage/workshop from the sub panel in my current attached
garage?


Maybe. What type of cable (size, material, and number of conductors) runs from
the main panel to the existing subpanel? What is the rating of the existing
subpanel? Is the subpanel connected to a breaker in the main panel, and if so,
what is the rating of that breaker?

If so, do I need another ground rod at the detached garage?


Yes.

If it helps, I can remove the 50 amp welding plug because I only plan
to wel in the detached garage anyway.


Do so.

I have 200 amp service in my main panel. I think the sub panel next to
it I bought was either a 50 or 100 amp panel


That makes a BIG difference.

but like I sais, the only
thing on it is the 1.5 ton heat pump. It is usually turned off as the
upstairs is a play room for the kids.

I added the sub panel because all of the breakers in my main pannel
were almost full.


IMO you're much better off hiring a licensed electrician. The questions you're
asking -- and the fact that you failed to gather such elementary but crucial
information such as the rating of the existing subpanel -- strongly suggest
that you do not possess the knowledge or the skills to do this safely on your
own.
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Default Sub panel to a sub panel

On Jul 13, 8:30*am, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
stryped fired this volley in news:2a8c8464-ab25-
:

Can I run a sub panel in my new
detached garage/workshop from the sub panel in my current attached
garage?


Someone could. *We've watched your progress long enough to think
that's not safe (for your family -- think "kids playing upstairs") for
you to do.



If so, do I need another ground rod at the detached garage?


Two, eight feet apart in many jurisdictions.

I added the sub panel because all of the breakers in my main pannel
were almost full.


That scares me. *It sound like you have multiple circuits stuffed into
all the available connector space on every breaker.

An electrician might be your best friend, here.

I'm not banging on you, Stryped. *This just doesn't sound like the
right project for you to undertake.

LLoyd


The main pannel had two spots left. I added a 100 amp breaker in the
main panel to the 100 amp sub panel. the wiring between the two was
the correct size for 100 amps. (I checked when I did this several
years ago.)

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Default Sub panel to a sub panel

In article , stryped wrote:

The main pannel had two spots left. I added a 100 amp breaker in the
main panel to the 100 amp sub panel. the wiring between the two was
the correct size for 100 amps. (I checked when I did this several
years ago.)


Let's double-check, OK? Please answer all of these questions:

What type of wire?
What gauge?
How many conductors did you run to the subpanel?
What are they connected to?
Does the subpanel have separate busses for neutral and ground?
Are they connected to each other, or electrically separate?
How are the neutral and ground busses in the subpanel connected to the main
panel?


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Default Sub panel to a sub panel

On Jul 13, 9:29*am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , stryped wrote:

The main pannel had two spots left. I added a 100 amp breaker in the
main panel to the 100 amp sub panel. the wiring between the two was
the correct size for 100 amps. (I checked when I did this several
years ago.)


Let's double-check, OK? Please answer all of these questions:

What type of wire?
What gauge?
How many conductors did you run to the subpanel?
What are they connected to?
Does the subpanel have separate busses for neutral and ground?
Are they connected to each other, or electrically separate?
How are the neutral and ground busses in the subpanel connected to the main
panel?


The sub panel is essentially a main type panel. I will have to look
again at the wire, but there is a 100 amp breaker form the main panel
feeding the sub pannel. The sub panel has a 100 amp main breaker also.

Everythign feeds to the main panel. (ground and everything.)

I will take some pictures tonight.
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Default Sub panel to a sub panel


"stryped" wrote in message
...
I am building a detatched garage about 75 feet from my attached
garage. I have my main panel and a sub panel beside each other in my
attached garage. The sub panel only has my small upstairs heat pump/
air conditioner for a bonus room hooked to it as well as a 50 amp plug
for a small welder I almost never use. Can I run a sub panel in my new
detached garage/workshop from the sub panel in my current attached
garage?

If so, do I need another ground rod at the detached garage?

If it helps, I can remove the 50 amp welding plug because I only plan
to wel in the detached garage anyway.

I have 200 amp service in my main panel. I think the sub panel next to
it I bought was either a 50 or 100 amp panel but like I sais, the only
thing on it is the 1.5 ton heat pump. It is usually turned off as the
upstairs is a play room for the kids.

I added the sub panel because all of the breakers in my main pannel
were almost full.


Make a hole in the main panel for another sub panel, just like you did
before. Move a couple of circuits to the other sub if necessary. Yes you
will need a main panel, ground rods and fused disconnect at the new shop.
I'd leave the welding plug for possible future use. It only matters if you
try to use it while heavily loaded on other circuits, but if everything is
fused/breakered correctly you should still be safe.



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Default Sub panel to a sub panel

stryped wrote:
I am building a detatched garage about 75 feet from my attached
garage. I have my main panel and a sub panel beside each other in my
attached garage. The sub panel only has my small upstairs heat pump/
air conditioner for a bonus room hooked to it as well as a 50 amp plug
for a small welder I almost never use. Can I run a sub panel in my new
detached garage/workshop from the sub panel in my current attached
garage?


How did that truck engine overhaul
work out?
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Default Sub panel to a sub panel

On Jul 13, 10:08*am, Jim Stewart wrote:
stryped wrote:
I am building a detatched garage about 75 feet from my attached
garage. I have my main panel and a sub panel beside each other in my
attached garage. The sub panel only has my small upstairs heat pump/
air conditioner for a bonus room hooked to it as well as a 50 amp plug
for a small welder I almost never use. Can I run a sub panel in my new
detached garage/workshop from the sub panel in my current attached
garage?


How did that truck engine overhaul
work out?


Great. I am sellign it as we speak. It runs like a scalded dog. (it is
fairly fast). the only thing I have noticed is after sittign overnight
when starting it there is some lifter ticking that goes away after
about 5 seconds.

For what it is worth. I ask alot of questions here but all of my
projects (knock on wood) have turned out ok, (That is why I ask alot
of questions, to make sure everythign is right.).

The tiller is still runnign too by the way


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Default Sub panel to a sub panel

On Jul 13, 10:01*am, "Tim" wrote:
"stryped" wrote in message

...





I am building a detatched garage about 75 feet from my attached
garage. I have my main panel and a sub panel beside each other in my
attached garage. The sub panel only has my small upstairs heat pump/
air conditioner for a bonus room hooked to it as well as a 50 amp plug
for a small welder I almost never use. Can I run a sub panel in my new
detached garage/workshop from the sub panel in my current attached
garage?


If so, do I need another ground rod at the detached garage?


If it helps, I can remove the 50 amp welding plug because I only plan
to wel in the detached garage anyway.


I have 200 amp service in my main panel. I think the sub panel next to
it I bought was either a 50 or 100 amp panel but like I sais, the only
thing on it is the 1.5 ton heat pump. It is usually turned off as the
upstairs is a play room for the kids.


I added the sub panel because all of the breakers in my main pannel
were almost full.


Make a hole in the main panel for another sub panel, just like you did
before. Move a couple of circuits to the other sub if necessary. *Yes you
will need a main panel, ground rods and fused disconnect at the new shop.
I'd leave the welding plug for possible future use. It only matters if you
try to use it while heavily loaded on other circuits, but if everything is
fused/breakered correctly you should still be safe.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


is there a reason to run the second sub from the main panel rather
than the 1st sub panel?

Do I need a disconnect on top of having a panel in the attached garage
with a main breaker? Where would I put it, on the outside of the
building?
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Default Sub panel to a sub panel


"stryped" wrote in message
...

-is there a reason to run the second sub from the main panel rather
-than the 1st sub panel?

Yes, you want your load to come through the 200 amp main breaker if you have
a 200 amp meter can and service. Connecting up stream or bypassing the 200
amp main could allow you to overload the service.

-Do I need a disconnect on top of having a panel in the attached garage
-with a main breaker? Where would I put it, on the outside of the
-building?

I'm not certain what the codes say, but a disconnect on the outside of your
main service panel could be a good idea just before you go underground. When
you come up to the new service, a fused disconnect shouldn't be necessary if
you come through the wall, and immediately in to your new panel. If you
cannot locate your new main panel, just inside the wall from your service
entrance, then yes, a fused disconnect would be a must.







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Default Sub panel to a sub panel

What Lloyd said.

What Doug said.

FWIW: My shop uses the cheapest available (usu. on sale) 4 ft. fluorescent fixtures, mounted 2 each
over major machine tools. Additional spot lighting on each machine tool is turned on as needed.

Recommend you get the services of a licensed electrician for bulk of electrical specks and design,
even if you do the work yourself. This may prevent grief from the electrical inspector. In the
same regard, be sure to obtain a building permit as required in your area.

Bob Swinney

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Default Sub panel to a sub panel

On Jul 13, 10:42*am, "Tim" wrote:
"stryped" wrote in message

...

-is there a reason to run the second sub from the main panel rather
-than the 1st sub panel?

Yes, you want your load to come through the 200 amp main breaker if you have
a 200 amp meter can and service. Connecting up stream or bypassing the 200
amp main could allow you to overload the service.

-Do I need a disconnect on top of having a panel in the attached garage
-with a main breaker? Where would I put it, on the outside of the
-building?

I'm not certain what the codes say, but a disconnect on the outside of your
main service panel could be a good idea just before you go underground. When
you come up to the new service, a fused disconnect shouldn't be necessary if
you come through the wall, and immediately in to your new panel. If you
cannot locate your new main panel, just inside the wall from your service
entrance, then yes, a fused disconnect would be a must.


What size panel for the new garage would I need? (If my home service
is 200 amps, and my current sub panel is 100 amps?) Can I put another
100 amp panel in my new garage/shop?

I will have to route the cable under the house (crawl space) and
outside under a deck to a ditch to the new shop. So you are sayign a
disconnect where the wite comes out of the house? (Which would be
under the deck).

B the way, I will have to disconnect somethignin the main panel to
give me space for the extra sub panel. If there is not enough slack to
move it over. (wire wise). What can I do?
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Default Sub panel to a sub panel

In article , stryped wrote:
On Jul 13, 9:29=A0am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article =

..com, stryped wrote:

The main pannel had two spots left. I added a 100 amp breaker in the
main panel to the 100 amp sub panel. the wiring between the two was
the correct size for 100 amps. (I checked when I did this several
years ago.)


Let's double-check, OK? Please answer all of these questions:

What type of wire?
What gauge?
How many conductors did you run to the subpanel?
What are they connected to?
Does the subpanel have separate busses for neutral and ground?
Are they connected to each other, or electrically separate?
How are the neutral and ground busses in the subpanel connected to the ma=

in
panel?


The sub panel is essentially a main type panel.


If you installed it the same way as a main panel is installed, then you
installed it wrong.

I will have to look
again at the wire, but there is a 100 amp breaker form the main panel
feeding the sub pannel. The sub panel has a 100 amp main breaker also.


And is the subpanel rated for 100A?


Everythign feeds to the main panel. (ground and everything.)

I will take some pictures tonight.


That's fine, but make sure to answer the questions too -- we won't be able to
tell wire type or gauge from photographs.


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Default Sub panel to a sub panel

In article , "Tim" wrote:

"stryped" wrote in message
...

-is there a reason to run the second sub from the main panel rather
-than the 1st sub panel?

Yes, you want your load to come through the 200 amp main breaker if you have
a 200 amp meter can and service. Connecting up stream or bypassing the 200
amp main could allow you to overload the service.


???

The 1st subpanel is fed from the main; if he feeds the second subpanel from
the first, he's still feeding from the main anyway. There's no danger of
overloading the service.

And *assuming* that the breaker protecting the feed from the main to the first
subpanel is properly sized for the conductors, there's no danger of
overloading that feed either.
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Default Sub panel to a sub panel

In article , stryped wrote:


B the way, I will have to disconnect somethignin the main panel to
give me space for the extra sub panel. If there is not enough slack to
move it over. (wire wise). What can I do?


What can you do? Hire an electrician. Please. You're in over your head. The
safety of your family is at stake.
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Default Sub panel to a sub panel

On Jul 13, 12:37*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , stryped wrote:





On Jul 13, 9:29=A0am, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article =

..com, stryped wrote:


The main pannel had two spots left. I added a 100 amp breaker in the
main panel to the 100 amp sub panel. the wiring between the two was
the correct size for 100 amps. (I checked when I did this several
years ago.)


Let's double-check, OK? Please answer all of these questions:


What type of wire?
What gauge?
How many conductors did you run to the subpanel?
What are they connected to?
Does the subpanel have separate busses for neutral and ground?
Are they connected to each other, or electrically separate?
How are the neutral and ground busses in the subpanel connected to the ma=

in
panel?


The sub panel is essentially a main type panel.


If you installed it the same way as a main panel is installed, then you
installed it wrong.

I will have to look
again at the wire, but there is a 100 amp breaker form the main panel
feeding the sub pannel. The sub panel has a 100 amp main breaker also.


And is the subpanel rated for 100A?



Everythign feeds to the main panel. (ground and everything.)


I will take some pictures tonight.


That's fine, but make sure to answer the questions too -- we won't be able to
tell wire type or gauge from photographs.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


What do you mean if I installed it the same as the main panel it is
wrong? I put a (rated) 100 am sub panel right next to the main panel.
There is a 100 amp breaker in the main panel feeding the sub panel and
also a 100 amp main breaker in the sub panel. the ground in the sub
runs to the grounding bus in the main panel.
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Default Sub panel to a sub panel

In article , stryped wrote:

What do you mean if I installed it the same as the main panel it is
wrong?


Code requires the main and neutral bus bars to be bonded together in the main
panel, and requires them to be electrically *isolated* in subpanels.
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Default Sub panel to a sub panel

On 2009-07-13, Doug Miller wrote:
In article , stryped wrote:

What do you mean if I installed it the same as the main panel it is
wrong?


Code requires the main and neutral bus bars to be bonded together in the main
panel, and requires them to be electrically *isolated* in subpanels.


Do you mean ground and neutral?

i


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In article , Ignoramus20849 wrote:
On 2009-07-13, Doug Miller wrote:
In article

, stryped
wrote:

What do you mean if I installed it the same as the main panel it is
wrong?


Code requires the main and neutral bus bars to be bonded together in the main
panel, and requires them to be electrically *isolated* in subpanels.


Do you mean ground and neutral?


OOPS!! Yes, I do. Thanks for catching that.
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Default Sub panel to a sub panel

In article , stryped wrote:

What do you mean if I installed it the same as the main panel it is
wrong?


Code requires the ground and neutral bus bars to be bonded together in the
main panel, and requires them to be electrically *isolated* in subpanels.
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On Jul 13, 2:22*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , stryped wrote:

What do you mean if I installed it the same as the main panel it is
wrong?


Code requires the ground and neutral bus bars to be bonded together in the
main panel, and requires them to be electrically *isolated* in subpanels.


To be honest I cant rememebr I will have to look if they are isolated
in the sub panel. How is the connection between the two "isolated"?
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Default Sub panel to a sub panel

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 12:37:15 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

On Jul 13, 2:22*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article , stryped wrote:

What do you mean if I installed it the same as the main panel it is
wrong?


Code requires the ground and neutral bus bars to be bonded together in the
main panel, and requires them to be electrically *isolated* in subpanels.


To be honest I cant rememebr I will have to look if they are isolated
in the sub panel. How is the connection between the two "isolated"?


It has been a long time...

Used to be a screw with a paper tag attached to it by the
ground and neutral connections. Tag said to install screw to
bond ground to neutral or similar words. Leave said screw
out if you don't want the two bonded (shrug).

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email
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In article , stryped wrote:
On Jul 13, 2:22=A0pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article .=

com, stryped wrote:

What do you mean if I installed it the same as the main panel it is
wrong?


Code requires the ground and neutral bus bars to be bonded together in the
main panel, and requires them to be electrically *isolated* in subpanels.


To be honest I cant rememebr I will have to look if they are isolated
in the sub panel. How is the connection between the two "isolated"?


"Isolated" means not connected electrically. One of the busses will be bolted
or screwed directly to the box -- that's the ground bar. The other one will be
mounted to the box with plastic insulators -- that's the neutral bar.

In a main panel, the two bars MUST be electrically connected to each other,
either by means of a jumper wire or bar connecting them, or by means of a
screw driven through the neutral bar and into the box, to provide
metal-to-metal contact.

In a subpanel, the two bars MUST NOT be electrically connected.

Thus, if you installed the subpanel "the same as the main panel" then you
installed it incorrectly -- and dangerously.


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In article , Leon Fisk wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 12:37:15 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

On Jul 13, 2:22*pm, (Doug Miller) wrote:
In article

, stryped
wrote:

What do you mean if I installed it the same as the main panel it is
wrong?

Code requires the ground and neutral bus bars to be bonded together in the
main panel, and requires them to be electrically *isolated* in subpanels.


To be honest I cant rememebr I will have to look if they are isolated
in the sub panel. How is the connection between the two "isolated"?


It has been a long time...

Used to be a screw with a paper tag attached to it by the
ground and neutral connections. Tag said to install screw to
bond ground to neutral or similar words. Leave said screw
out if you don't want the two bonded (shrug).


I've seen some panels -- granted, not recently -- that shipped with the
bonding screw already installed, with instructions to take it out if the panel
would be used as a subpanel.

And the absence of a bonding screw does *not* mean that the two bars are
isolated. There might be a bonding *jumper* instead: in a main panel, Code
permits bonding the neutral bar to the box directly, or to the ground bar.
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On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 08:29:52 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:

On Jul 13, 10:01Â*am, "Tim" wrote:
"stryped" wrote in message

...





I am building a detatched garage about 75 feet from my attached
garage. I have my main panel and a sub panel beside each other in my
attached garage. The sub panel only has my small upstairs heat pump/
air conditioner for a bonus room hooked to it as well as a 50 amp plug
for a small welder I almost never use. Can I run a sub panel in my new
detached garage/workshop from the sub panel in my current attached
garage?


If so, do I need another ground rod at the detached garage?


If it helps, I can remove the 50 amp welding plug because I only plan
to wel in the detached garage anyway.


I have 200 amp service in my main panel. I think the sub panel next to
it I bought was either a 50 or 100 amp panel but like I sais, the only
thing on it is the 1.5 ton heat pump. It is usually turned off as the
upstairs is a play room for the kids.


I added the sub panel because all of the breakers in my main pannel
were almost full.


Make a hole in the main panel for another sub panel, just like you did
before. Move a couple of circuits to the other sub if necessary. Â*Yes you
will need a main panel, ground rods and fused disconnect at the new shop.
I'd leave the welding plug for possible future use. It only matters if you
try to use it while heavily loaded on other circuits, but if everything is
fused/breakered correctly you should still be safe.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


is there a reason to run the second sub from the main panel rather
than the 1st sub panel?

Do I need a disconnect on top of having a panel in the attached garage
with a main breaker? Where would I put it, on the outside of the
building?

If the main panel in the separate garage is within a few feet of the
door and is, again, a main panel type with it's own main breaker no
other disconnect is required. Running the second sub from the main
panel WOULD be the preferred method. Fewer connections between the
meter and the load that way. Each series connection is a possible
point of resistance, and therefore voltage drop.
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On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:42:02 -0500, "Tim" wrote:


"stryped" wrote in message
...

-is there a reason to run the second sub from the main panel rather
-than the 1st sub panel?

Yes, you want your load to come through the 200 amp main breaker if you have
a 200 amp meter can and service. Connecting up stream or bypassing the 200
amp main could allow you to overload the service.

Pardon? The first sub is protected by the main as well as the 100 amp
distribution breaker.
Connecting the second sub to that could not contribute to overloading
the service. However, it would be better to bypass that second panel
and put the outbuilding feed directly on the main breaker panel

-Do I need a disconnect on top of having a panel in the attached garage
-with a main breaker? Where would I put it, on the outside of the
-building?

I'm not certain what the codes say, but a disconnect on the outside of your
main service panel could be a good idea just before you go underground. When
you come up to the new service, a fused disconnect shouldn't be necessary if
you come through the wall, and immediately in to your new panel. If you
cannot locate your new main panel, just inside the wall from your service
entrance, then yes, a fused disconnect would be a must.







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On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 11:33:43 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:


What do you mean if I installed it the same as the main panel it is
wrong? I put a (rated) 100 am sub panel right next to the main panel.
There is a 100 amp breaker in the main panel feeding the sub panel and
also a 100 amp main breaker in the sub panel. the ground in the sub
runs to the grounding bus in the main panel.

One of the 100 amp breakers is redundant. Won't hurt anything but not
required if the panels are side by side.


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Default Sub panel to a sub panel

In article , David Lesher wrote:
(Doug Miller) writes:


In a subpanel, the two bars MUST NOT be electrically connected.



I don't claim to know the code, but if this is a standalone
building, I'd verify the same rule applied. I believe it does
but...


This applies to any subpanel, regardless of whether it's in a separate
building or not. If he installs a separate _service entrance_ in the new
building instead -- that is, *not* fed from his existing service -- then it
would be a main panel.
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Default Sub panel to a sub panel



Specifically the 100A breaker in the subpanel is redundant. The 100A breaker
in the main panel is required, to provide overcurrent protection for the
feeder to the subpanel.

In his new building, he needs both: one whichever panel the feeder is taken
from (to protect the feeder), and one in the subpanel in the new building (to
provide a disconnect for that building).


Doug et al

There is an exception in the NEC for this. If the feed from the main
panel is from a 60 AMP or smaller breaker, a main in the sub panel is
not required. Also some AHJs have made the exception moot by other
requirements. The additional/new panel can be rated at larger then 60
Amps also. Mine is 125 amp. Gives me 20 spaces I think it is. This
makes the panel a 60 Amp though. My neutral and ground are separated
and I have a 10" ground bar also. Habitable structure or not, also
makes a difference.

Bob AZ
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Default Sub panel to a sub panel


wrote in message
...
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 10:42:02 -0500, "Tim" wrote:


"stryped" wrote in message
...

-is there a reason to run the second sub from the main panel rather
-than the 1st sub panel?

Yes, you want your load to come through the 200 amp main breaker if you
have
a 200 amp meter can and service. Connecting up stream or bypassing the 200
amp main could allow you to overload the service.

Pardon? The first sub is protected by the main as well as the 100 amp
distribution breaker.
Connecting the second sub to that could not contribute to overloading
the service. However, it would be better to bypass that second panel
and put the outbuilding feed directly on the main breaker panel


I think you miss read me. The first sub is protected by a 100, I was say
don't bypass the 200 amp main in the main panel, or come off the meter can.
The service entrance is should only be wired for 200 amp, and feeding a 200
amp panel and a 100 panel off the meter could result in drawing 300 amps
through the service.





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Default Sub panel to a sub panel


"stryped" wrote in message
...
On Jul 13, 10:42 am, "Tim" wrote:
"stryped" wrote in message


-What size panel for the new garage would I need? (If my home service
-is 200 amps, and my current sub panel is 100 amps?) Can I put another
-100 amp panel in my new garage/shop?

Yes. Just remember if your collective load cannot exceed 200 amps. That's
why you want all your loads to come through the original main breaker.


-l have to route the cable under the house (crawl space) and
-outside under a deck to a ditch to the new shop. So you are sayign a
-disconnect where the wite comes out of the house? (Which would be
-under the deck).

Probably not, but I don't recall what the codes say.


-B the way, I will have to disconnect somethignin the main panel to
-give me space for the extra sub panel. If there is not enough slack to
-move it over. (wire wise). What can I do?

Splice it.


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Default Sub panel to a sub panel

On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 23:24:03 GMT, (Doug Miller)
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:
On Mon, 13 Jul 2009 11:33:43 -0700 (PDT), stryped
wrote:


What do you mean if I installed it the same as the main panel it is
wrong? I put a (rated) 100 am sub panel right next to the main panel.
There is a 100 amp breaker in the main panel feeding the sub panel and
also a 100 amp main breaker in the sub panel. the ground in the sub
runs to the grounding bus in the main panel.


One of the 100 amp breakers is redundant. Won't hurt anything but not
required if the panels are side by side.


Specifically the 100A breaker in the subpanel is redundant. The 100A breaker
in the main panel is required, to provide overcurrent protection for the
feeder to the subpanel.

In his new building, he needs both: one whichever panel the feeder is taken
from (to protect the feeder), and one in the subpanel in the new building (to
provide a disconnect for that building).


Having another Main Breaker disconnect in the subpanel in the
detached building isn't an absolute necessity if you have six or less
circuits in the sub-panel (Per 2002 NEC Article 225.32 and the
exceptions see "Installations under single management", and Article
225.33)

But it is still a darned good idea to have another Main - so you can
Kill It all RIGHT NOW. Cheap insurance, but it does make another
point to find and reset if you get a nuisance trip...

You have to keep the Neutral and Safety Ground totally seperate
except at the Main Service Panel - meaning you need to run four wires
out to the detached shop. Two hots, Neutral and Ground.

Meaning if it's an aerial run you have to buy Quadplex aerial
service wire to get three insulated plus a bare messenger for the
ground. Triplex like Edison uses won't cut it.

-- Bruce --
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