DAREX M5 was Costco/"Worksmith" 115 drill bit sets saga
 

SNIP

I could sell XXX my close to brand new Darex M5

SNIP

Darex M5 drill sharpener pics posted on request.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

Hey Jon,

Pretty happy with the Albrecht chuck I got from you recently. Now
what about that Darex M5? Better than my M3? I
I have a bunch of Drill Doctors spaced about the shop, and I use my
Black Diamond when I really care, so what would I gain, and how much
would it cost? I'd need it shipped to Detroit this time though,
instead of LA but we can work that out later if we go further on this.

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

DAREX M5 was Costco/"Worksmith" 115 drill bit sets saga
 

Hey Brian. Not to worry Buddy! AFAIK, the M3 and M5 differ only in that the M5 includes a Baldor
grinder, web-thinning attachment, and a point splitter. Otherwise, I think they are basically the
same. I have owned the Glendo version of the M3 for many years and have been very pleased with it.
It resides in front of my old 1/2" Craftsman bench grinder. Right now I'm moving the grinder, the
M3, and Glendo's protractor table onto a new 1/2" steel plate. I do most tool bit sharpening with
the old Craftsman. A new Glendo Accu-Finish diamond grinder is reserved for carbide tools. It sits
under a microscope.

PS: Re. all the chatter about point splitting: I can't imagine why anyone with machine tools would
be concerned with point splitting. Web thinning, a distant "maybe".

Bob Swinney





"Brian Lawson" wrote in message
...
SNIP

I could sell XXX my close to brand new Darex M5

SNIP

Darex M5 drill sharpener pics posted on request.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA

Hey Jon,

Pretty happy with the Albrecht chuck I got from you recently. Now
what about that Darex M5? Better than my M3? I
I have a bunch of Drill Doctors spaced about the shop, and I use my
Black Diamond when I really care, so what would I gain, and how much
would it cost? I'd need it shipped to Detroit this time though,
instead of LA but we can work that out later if we go further on this.

Take care.

Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.

DAREX M5 was Costco/"Worksmith" 115 drill bit sets saga
 

There are advantages to using split-point drills, Bob. It's likely that
you've heard or seen the following comments before, but I'll include them
for others to ponder.
Some advantages of split-point drills may not be considered to be cost
effective for some users, and the advantages may be somewhat over-emphasized
by drill sharpener makers and some mis-informed users.

I know that a lot of drill users are unaware of how easy it is to create
split points on on common twist drills, though.
Many users believe the split is created by cautiously sneaking up on the
center of a drill point with a gouging-type grinds, after the cutting faces
have been ground, with the impression that if the grinds aren't perfectly
centered, the drill needs to be reground (thus, more time invested in
resharpening).

This method is not how drill makers create split points. The "split" grinds
are done on the back sides of the flutes first, then the cutting faces are
ground normally.. as crowned and relieved or 4 facet, or other popular
grinds.
No ultra-precise machine required to insure that the "split" grinds are
perfectly centered, and no need to nervously sneak up on the center with
gouging-type grinds.

I used to be able to grind very accurate (although not perfect) split points
on drills down to about 1/8" by hand, when my eyes were much younger.

Split-point drills cut efficiently with less feed force and rotational
power. Many hobbiest/handy-types that might use hand drill motors more
frequently for drilling, appreciate that the split-drill point drill is less
likely to wander when starting a hole.

For those users that work with secured, properly positioned workpieces and a
center-punched mark or spot drills with very rigid machines, wandering
drills aren't usually a significant problem. Splitting drill points might
appear to be a waste of time.

That perspective may be different for a user when drilling a lot of holes
with a hand drill motor up on a ladder or some other precarious position.

The primary significance of the split-point drill is that it is cutting from
the instant/moment of contact. This is the reason that split-point drills
are less likely to wander when starting a hole.
Ordinary conventionally-ground drill points are not cutting upon contact.
That chisel section in the web requires force to displace the material being
drilled, enough that the cutting edges can contact the workpiece.
Because the conventionally-ground drill is rotating, the chisel point
doesn't require a lot of force to displace the material before the cutting
edges contact the workpiece, but the force needs to be maintained
continuously for the entire depth of the hole (as there was no existing
hole).
Of course, as the chisel edge in the web dulls, and it will because it's
essentially rubbing a small hole at low SFM, the required feed force
increases, even if the drill's cutting edges are still sharp.
The resistance of the web needing to be forced into the workpiece is the
major difference.

The split-point drill has two cutting edges in the center which are cutting
as a result of the drill rotating, not (as) dependent upon the feed force.

If there are any advantages of using ordinary conventionally-ground drills
over split-point drills, I'd very much appreciate hearing about them.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Robert Swinney" wrote in message
...
Hey Brian. Not to worry Buddy! AFAIK, the M3 and M5 differ only in that
the M5 includes a Baldor
grinder, web-thinning attachment, and a point splitter. Otherwise, I
think they are basically the
same. I have owned the Glendo version of the M3 for many years and have
been very pleased with it.
It resides in front of my old 1/2" Craftsman bench grinder. Right now I'm
moving the grinder, the
M3, and Glendo's protractor table onto a new 1/2" steel plate. I do most
tool bit sharpening with
the old Craftsman. A new Glendo Accu-Finish diamond grinder is reserved
for carbide tools. It sits
under a microscope.

PS: Re. all the chatter about point splitting: I can't imagine why
anyone with machine tools would
be concerned with point splitting. Web thinning, a distant "maybe".

Bob Swinney

DAREX M5 was Costco/"Worksmith" 115 drill bit sets saga
 

Wild_Bill wrote:
There are advantages to using split-point drills, Bob. It's likely that
you've heard or seen the following comments before, but I'll include
them for others to ponder.

(...)

Do you write professionally?
That was a pleasure to read, even though it was On Topic.

:)

--Winston

DAREX M5 was Costco/"Worksmith" 115 drill bit sets saga
 

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Wild_Bill wrote:
There are advantages to using split-point drills, Bob. It's likely that
you've heard or seen the following comments before, but I'll include them
for others to ponder.

(...)

Do you write professionally?
That was a pleasure to read, even though it was On Topic.

:)

--Winston

Damn! An On Topic and I missed it!!

DAREX M5 was Costco/"Worksmith" 115 drill bit sets saga
 

I'm glad you found it legible, as a couple of my keyboard keys haven't been
working reliably, and I keep putting off connecting a spare keyboard.

Since I started using high quality split-point drills in the 1970s, I knew
immediately that I liked using them more than conventionally-ground drills,
but I didn't know why, really.

So I've discovered the various advantages of split-points over the years,
and try to express them to users that understand the specific aspects that
make them.. well, better, faster, easier etc. to use.

The most difficult "point" to get across, I think, is that the split-points
aren't especially difficult to create.
Fairly accurate split-points can be accomplished freehand, although
attempting to create them on small drills (under 1/8") can be frustrating.
I've recommended practicing on larger drills (about 1/4" or larger) while
examining/comparing the practice drill to a factory-ground new split-point
drill's angles. After the facets have been ground on the trailing/back sides
of the flutes first, the cutting faces and edges can be finished in any
style that's preferred.

The splitting facet grinds are acomplished by bringing the back side of each
flute to the face of the grinding wheel at a fairly low angle. With the
drill standing point up, the top of the drill can be angled back to the
grinding wheel.
A small fixture could be fabricated to facilitate positioning for these
steps, which would insure a fairly precise, repeatable angle for the back
side grinds.
The back side grinds could also be done with the drill point down, but
visibility of the point area is zero.

I've mentioned most of the characteristics of split-points in several
previous posts, but generally don't get any responses.
Thanks for mentioning that you get it.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Winston" wrote in message
...
Wild_Bill wrote:
There are advantages to using split-point drills, Bob. It's likely that
you've heard or seen the following comments before, but I'll include them
for others to ponder.

(...)

Do you write professionally?
That was a pleasure to read, even though it was On Topic.

:)

--Winston

DAREX M5 was Costco/"Worksmith" 115 drill bit sets saga
 

Stu Fields wrote:
"Winston" wrote in message
...
Wild_Bill wrote:
There are advantages to using split-point drills, Bob. It's likely that
you've heard or seen the following comments before, but I'll include them
for others to ponder.
(...)

Do you write professionally?
That was a pleasure to read, even though it was On Topic.

:)

--Winston

Damn! An On Topic and I missed it!!

To paraphrase Salman Rushdie correcting Steve Jobs:

"Blink Differently"

--Winston

DAREX M5 was Costco/"Worksmith" 115 drill bit sets saga
 

Wild_Bill wrote:

(Snip creation of split point geometry)

I've mentioned most of the characteristics of split-points in several
previous posts, but generally don't get any responses.
Thanks for mentioning that you get it.

I am sure I could reproduce a serviceable split-point
from your description but it would save much experimentation
(and four perfectly good drills) if I could see the actual
operation. (Especially if it included pointers on sharpening
smaller drills by hand).

If you should happen to post a video to say, YouTube I would
be very interested in seeing it.

Thanks!

--Winston

DAREX M5 was Costco/"Worksmith" 115 drill bit sets saga
 

On Sat, 4 Jul 2009 11:05:05 -0500, "Robert Swinney"
wrote:

SNIP

PS: Re. all the chatter about point splitting: I can't imagine why anyone with machine tools would
be concerned with point splitting. Web thinning, a distant "maybe".

Bob Swinney


Hey Bob,

Gotta agree. 99.999999999% of all the holes I drill are "clearance"
holes. Just want to bolt something together, or drain something. I
just want it to be sharp, and drill quick without requiring an "Old
Man" lever for anything under 3/4".

Take care.

Brian.

DAREX M5 was Costco/"Worksmith" 115 drill bit sets saga
 

On Jul 8, 12:15*am, "Wild_Bill" wrote:

If there are any advantages of using ordinary conventionally-ground drills
over split-point drills, I'd very much appreciate hearing about them.

--
WB
.........
metalworking projectswww.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html

If I'm doing a lot of drilling in difficult materials I have found
that not splitting the points makes the drill last longer.

Jon Banquer
San Diego, CA








"Robert Swinney" wrote in message

...

Hey Brian. *Not to worry Buddy! *AFAIK, the M3 and M5 differ only in that
the M5 includes a Baldor
grinder, web-thinning attachment, and a point splitter. *Otherwise, I
think they are basically the
same. *I have owned the Glendo version of the M3 for many years and have
been very pleased with it.
It resides in front of my old 1/2" Craftsman bench grinder. *Right now I'm
moving the grinder, the
M3, and Glendo's protractor table onto a new 1/2" steel plate. *I do most
tool bit sharpening with
the old Craftsman. *A new Glendo Accu-Finish diamond grinder is reserved
for carbide tools. *It sits
under a microscope.

PS: *Re. all the chatter about point splitting: *I can't imagine why
anyone with machine tools would
be concerned with point splitting. *Web thinning, a distant "maybe".

Bob Swinney

DAREX M5 was Costco/"Worksmith" 115 drill bit sets saga
 

"Brian Lawson" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 4 Jul 2009 11:05:05 -0500, "Robert Swinney"
wrote:

SNIP

PS: Re. all the chatter about point splitting: I can't imagine why
anyone with machine tools would
be concerned with point splitting. Web thinning, a distant "maybe".

Bob Swinney


Hey Bob,

Gotta agree. 99.999999999% of all the holes I drill are "clearance"
holes. Just want to bolt something together, or drain something. I
just want it to be sharp, and drill quick without requiring an "Old
Man" lever for anything under 3/4".

Take care.

Brian.

There are some good reasons to use split points. They drill with less
effort, and as has been mentioned already, they are more likely to drill
where they're aimed. The split point cuts to center, so the web doesn't
act like a deflector.

Someone already mentioned that split points don't hold up as well. They're
somewhat more fragile, true.

When drilling in a vertical mill, if the job at hand isn't critical, by
using split point screw machine drills, you can avoid center drilling (or
spot drilling, for the CNC folks here).

Harold

DAREX M5 was Costco/"Worksmith" 115 drill bit sets saga
 

I doubt that a video would be likely any time soon, but I've been interested
in making some on various subjects.

Videos on YouTube that I've seen don't seem to be able to, or haven't been
made in a way to show much detail on small parts.
A friend said he thought the poor detail of most online videos is due to the
various types of compression used.

I can't begin to tell ya how much I dislike working with software, even
though the universal opinion of overall ease of use (for anything these
days) seems to be... it's simple and/or great, all ya gotta do is..

However, if I would happen to get something made that's reasonably clear,
I'll certainly mention it here.

--
WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Winston" wrote in message
...

I am sure I could reproduce a serviceable split-point
from your description but it would save much experimentation
(and four perfectly good drills) if I could see the actual
operation. (Especially if it included pointers on sharpening
smaller drills by hand).

If you should happen to post a video to say, YouTube I would
be very interested in seeing it.

Thanks!

--Winston

DAREX M5 was Costco/"Worksmith" 115 drill bit sets saga
 

Wild_Bill wrote:
I doubt that a video would be likely any time soon, but I've been
interested in making some on various subjects.

Videos on YouTube that I've seen don't seem to be able to, or haven't
been made in a way to show much detail on small parts.
A friend said he thought the poor detail of most online videos is due to
the various types of compression used.

A macro lens and your writing style would go a long way to address
that issue. A mirror jig to show compound angle of the bit would
be excellent, too.

I can't begin to tell ya how much I dislike working with software, even
though the universal opinion of overall ease of use (for anything these
days) seems to be... it's simple and/or great, all ya gotta do is..

Yup. 'Intuitive approach' isn't the same thing for everybody.

However, if I would happen to get something made that's reasonably
clear, I'll certainly mention it here.

Good!

--Winston