On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 21:41:45 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:57:06 -0400, the infamous "Ed Huntress"
scrawled the following:


"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Listen, young fella, if you were over 60, you'd know better. d8-)

Only 51 and got carded yesterday.

Wes

'Didn't believe you were really a senior citizen, eh? That's happened to
me
in reverse several times. They offer me senior rates. I angrily decline.
g

I'm pretty gray at the ripe old age of 55, so I take the discounts,
telling them I'm a youngun only _after_ I've paid.

I let them get angry instead of me. g

Smart. I take the discount for haircuts. It's only fair. There isn't much to
cut these days.
The young ladies at supercuts keep trying to trim my eyebrows but I
explain to them that if they did that, I might have to buy sun
glasses, and I wouldn't be able to intimidate anyone.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 02:42:09 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:57:06 -0400, the infamous "Ed Huntress"
scrawled the following:


"Wes" wrote in message
...
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Listen, young fella, if you were over 60, you'd know better. d8-)

Only 51 and got carded yesterday.

Wes

'Didn't believe you were really a senior citizen, eh? That's happened to
me
in reverse several times. They offer me senior rates. I angrily decline.
g

I'm pretty gray at the ripe old age of 55, so I take the discounts,
telling them I'm a youngun only _after_ I've paid.

I let them get angry instead of me. g

Smart. I take the discount for haircuts. It's only fair. There isn't much
to cut these days.

--
Ed Huntress



Heh! Haircuts?

Some guys even shave.

I still have most of my hair, slightly taller forehead than when I was in
high school. I get a haircut at least twice each year, need it, or not.

Haven't put a razor to my face since 1964. Don't expect I'll be doing it in
the near future, either.

Harold

Most I can get away with is about 4 months before SWMBO starts making
broad hints. OTOH she objects to anything around my mouth that grows
wild at the other end of the digestive tract.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

"Ed Huntress" wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking:


"RAM³" wrote in message
. 10...
"Ed Huntress" wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking:

I forgot he was a kook. Damn, I'm going to stop trying to be
helpful. g

He's not a "kook", Ed, since that term would elevate him lightyears
above his actual position.

I, personally, thank you for your excellent post.

BTW, the Hobby Lobby chain carries a limited range of lead hardnesses
but, at least, they DO carry them and the holders.

FWIW, the sharpener/pointer I use is an A. W. Faber "Mentor" 50/58
which has 3 openings and blades: 1 for gross sharpening of lead
pencils [leaving the lead exposed], 1 for putting a fine point on the
exposed lead and refining the taper of the pencil, and 1 strictly for
leads used with a holder. The body is a 9mm thick disk (flattened on
the side with the holes)
with a coin edge.

Kept in its leather? case, it goes into my pocket as soon as someone
askes what it might be! grin

Ha! I have a couple of toys like that. Nobody else gets to touch them.

One is my Dietzgen duralumin drafting set, pre-WWII. It's complete,
and it's going to stay that way.

--
Ed Huntress

--
Ed Huntress




Now THERE is a REAL Treasure!!!!!!!!!

IIWY, I'd get it appraised BUT that appraiser would have to agree to do
the appraisal while I had a loaded 1911 in my hand...

Forget jewelry, that set's worth a major mint!

Larry Jaques wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking:

On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:56:43 -0400, the infamous Wes
scrawled the following:

"RAM³" wrote:

CAD is handy when you have enough power to run the 'puter but it's
easier to use "old tech" when doodling at the coffee shop. grin

Being able to sketch something so I can make another is a pretty handy
skill I retained.

Yeah, those old technical/mechanical drawing class skills still come
in handy, don't they?

--
The best and safest thing is to keep a balance in your life,
acknowledge the great powers around us and in us. If you can
do that, and live that way, you are really a wise man.
-- Euripides


Amen, Bro', Amen!

"RAM³" wrote in message
. 10...
"Ed Huntress" wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking:


"RAM³" wrote in message
. 10...
"Ed Huntress" wrote in
rec.crafts.metalworking:

I forgot he was a kook. Damn, I'm going to stop trying to be
helpful. g

He's not a "kook", Ed, since that term would elevate him lightyears
above his actual position.

I, personally, thank you for your excellent post.

BTW, the Hobby Lobby chain carries a limited range of lead hardnesses
but, at least, they DO carry them and the holders.

FWIW, the sharpener/pointer I use is an A. W. Faber "Mentor" 50/58
which has 3 openings and blades: 1 for gross sharpening of lead
pencils [leaving the lead exposed], 1 for putting a fine point on the
exposed lead and refining the taper of the pencil, and 1 strictly for
leads used with a holder. The body is a 9mm thick disk (flattened on
the side with the holes)
with a coin edge.

Kept in its leather? case, it goes into my pocket as soon as someone
askes what it might be! grin

Ha! I have a couple of toys like that. Nobody else gets to touch them.

One is my Dietzgen duralumin drafting set, pre-WWII. It's complete,
and it's going to stay that way.

--
Ed Huntress

--
Ed Huntress




Now THERE is a REAL Treasure!!!!!!!!!

IIWY, I'd get it appraised BUT that appraiser would have to agree to do
the appraisal while I had a loaded 1911 in my hand...

That would be my Colt-manufactured model, original Parkerizing, made in
1941. g


Forget jewelry, that set's worth a major mint!

I'll keep it with the family silver. There's a Paul Revere piece in there.
We never let stuff go.

--
Ed Huntress

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:59:27 -0400, the infamous Gerald Miller
scrawled the following:

The young ladies at supercuts keep trying to trim my eyebrows but I
explain to them that if they did that, I might have to buy sun
glasses, and I wouldn't be able to intimidate anyone.

So you're a Freddie Jones lookalike, are ya?

http://images.absoluteastronomy.com/...ddie_jones.gif

--
Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass;
it's about learning how to dance in the rain.
--Anon

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 02:31:35 -0700, "Steve R."
wrote:


"Andrew VK3BFA" wrote in message
...
On Jun 23, 5:36 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
Then you give the point a quick wipe with a tissue to keep the
graphite dust off of your paper.

--
Ed Huntress
Thanks for the tutorial Ed - they are still available, nice sketching
pencils, easier to manage than the tiny small diameter plastic modern
ones (they break too easy) Didn't know about the custom sharpeners
though, I use me pocketknife. As an aside, I did a unit at school on
"mechanical drawing" , ie how to do sketches to aid making things,
perspective drawing, use of engineering symbols and notation, drawing
re-assembly sketches, marking out angles, circles, dividing same.
Interesting, the very first exercise on page 1 was practising drawing
(freehand) straight lines - which sounds easy until you try it, takes
a while to get the precise muscles in your hand used to the
concept....so, their still teaching the "old way" - I did it last
year...
Also did an "intro to Autocad" - wow, 25 commands to draw a straight
line g - wont have enough years left to master it...

Andrew VK3BFA.


LOL! I can produce a drawing the old way faster than a professional cad
operator! The only advantage of cad is easy distribution of copies, and
corrections/modifications.

Steve R

Beg to disagree. It is also intrinsically more accurate, its ability
to do geometry and trig can be a huge convenience, and one need not
be a professional CAD operator for it to be significantly faster.

I've used and still have the traditional drafting tools and skills. I
worked as a draftsman/detailer at Chevy Engineering back in the '60's,
white shirt and all.

I find CAD both faster and more accurate, even when making
orhtographic projections, true views and suchlike. I use an ancient
version of AutoCAD (R-14) because I invested the time to become
fairly facile and comfortable with it years ago. I agree with others
that ACAD has its warts and is not easy to learn, but it's as
familiar as a pencil to me.

The fastest pro operators do much or most of their work with keyboard
rather than mouse, or at least that was once the case. People can
type a hell of a lot faster than they can mouse. Watching a real pro
make a drawing "happen" with ACAD is quite a show. I seriously doubt
that anyone could do it nearly as quickly with conventional drafting
tools. It would take a fast sketcher to keep up.

On Jun 24, 2:00 pm, Don Foreman wrote:

Don, it pains me to say it, but this thread proves we are turning/have
turned into a bunch of old farts, lamenting the "good old days"........
(I include myself in this, just had my 56 birthday)

Andrew VK3BFA.

Gerald Miller wrote:

The young ladies at supercuts keep trying to trim my eyebrows but I
explain to them that if they did that, I might have to buy sun
glasses, and I wouldn't be able to intimidate anyone.


Sounds like you're a 'Wookie Wannabe'. ;-)


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Gerald Miller wrote:

On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:54:53 -0400, Wes wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Listen, young fella, if you were over 60, you'd know better. d8-)

Only 51 and got carded yesterday.

Wes
You are only as old as you feel so I only have birthdays in odd
numbered years. Both Junior and I are 35 this year.


Any year that 'you' are in is odd... ;-)


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message
...

and takes only two or three spins to give you a
fine point. Then you give the point a quick wipe with a tissue to keep
the graphite dust off of your paper.

--
Ed Huntress

Ed, standard practice also used to be to simply wipe the excess graphite
under the armpit or your white shirt. You put on a clean one everyday so
made no difference.

I've seen those drafting departments. I wish I had the local laundry
franchise. g

Somebody (Gerry, I think) mentioned cigarette filters. My Staedtler
sharpener has one in a pocket in the top of the device. One filter is good
for a year or two. I still use those lead holders when I'm editing in
pencil; they're especially good in red and blue.

I remember rows and rows of draftsmen all wearing white shirts and ties.
All facing in the same directions to cut down on the chit-chat. Oh, those
were the days.

Ivan Vegvary

I used to love the craft of it. I did a lot of architectural drawing around
35 years ago, and I spent endless hours practicing architectural
lettering -- a limited enterprise, because only certain architectural fonts
are practical for lefties. My pre-war Dietzgen drafting set was the envy of
the classroom.

However, although I'm strictly an amateur with CAD (I've used GenericCADD,
Cadkey, AutoCAD, Vellum, Rhino, and several others), I wouldn't trade my
computer for the best traditional drafting equipment ever made.


Have you ever tried 'SwitcherCad'? It is a Spice program you can
download for free from Linear Technology.

http://www.linear.com/designtools/software/ltspice.jsp


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Ed Huntress wrote:

"Ivan Vegvary" wrote in message
...

and takes only two or three spins to give you a
fine point. Then you give the point a quick wipe with a tissue to keep
the graphite dust off of your paper.

--
Ed Huntress

Ed, standard practice also used to be to simply wipe the excess
graphite
under the armpit or your white shirt. You put on a clean one everyday
so
made no difference.

I've seen those drafting departments. I wish I had the local laundry
franchise. g

Somebody (Gerry, I think) mentioned cigarette filters. My Staedtler
sharpener has one in a pocket in the top of the device. One filter is
good
for a year or two. I still use those lead holders when I'm editing in
pencil; they're especially good in red and blue.

I remember rows and rows of draftsmen all wearing white shirts and
ties.
All facing in the same directions to cut down on the chit-chat. Oh,
those
were the days.

Ivan Vegvary

I used to love the craft of it. I did a lot of architectural drawing
around
35 years ago, and I spent endless hours practicing architectural
lettering -- a limited enterprise, because only certain architectural
fonts
are practical for lefties. My pre-war Dietzgen drafting set was the envy
of
the classroom.

However, although I'm strictly an amateur with CAD (I've used
GenericCADD,
Cadkey, AutoCAD, Vellum, Rhino, and several others), I wouldn't trade my
computer for the best traditional drafting equipment ever made.


Have you ever tried 'SwitcherCad'? It is a Spice program you can
download for free from Linear Technology.

http://www.linear.com/designtools/software/ltspice.jsp

I haven't, but I'm a registered Rhino user and I've settled on that for the
little bit of work I do with it these days. I did try an early version of
Spice for electronic design, but it's been years since I was involved in ham
radio.

I was one of the first beta testers for Rhino and I've stuck with it.

--
Ed Huntress
KC2NZT

In article ,
Don Foreman wrote:

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 02:31:35 -0700, "Steve R."
wrote:


"Andrew VK3BFA" wrote in message
...
On Jun 23, 5:36 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
Then you give the point a quick wipe with a tissue to keep the
graphite dust off of your paper.

--
Ed Huntress
Thanks for the tutorial Ed - they are still available, nice sketching
pencils, easier to manage than the tiny small diameter plastic modern
ones (they break too easy) Didn't know about the custom sharpeners
though, I use me pocketknife. As an aside, I did a unit at school on
"mechanical drawing" , ie how to do sketches to aid making things,
perspective drawing, use of engineering symbols and notation, drawing
re-assembly sketches, marking out angles, circles, dividing same.
Interesting, the very first exercise on page 1 was practising drawing
(freehand) straight lines - which sounds easy until you try it, takes
a while to get the precise muscles in your hand used to the
concept....so, their still teaching the "old way" - I did it last
year...
Also did an "intro to Autocad" - wow, 25 commands to draw a straight
line g - wont have enough years left to master it...

Andrew VK3BFA.


LOL! I can produce a drawing the old way faster than a professional cad
operator! The only advantage of cad is easy distribution of copies, and
corrections/modifications.

Steve R

Beg to disagree. It is also intrinsically more accurate, its ability
to do geometry and trig can be a huge convenience, and one need not
be a professional CAD operator for it to be significantly faster.

I've used and still have the traditional drafting tools and skills. I
worked as a draftsman/detailer at Chevy Engineering back in the '60's,
white shirt and all.

I find CAD both faster and more accurate, even when making
orhtographic projections, true views and suchlike. I use an ancient
version of AutoCAD (R-14) because I invested the time to become
fairly facile and comfortable with it years ago. I agree with others
that ACAD has its warts and is not easy to learn, but it's as
familiar as a pencil to me.

The fastest pro operators do much or most of their work with keyboard
rather than mouse, or at least that was once the case. People can
type a hell of a lot faster than they can mouse. Watching a real pro
make a drawing "happen" with ACAD is quite a show. I seriously doubt
that anyone could do it nearly as quickly with conventional drafting
tools. It would take a fast sketcher to keep up.

This reminds me of a contest reported when electronic calculators first
came out. The contest, in Japan, pitted an 80-something with abacus
against a 20-something with calculator. The geezer won hands down, of
course. He'd been practicing longer than the kid had been alive.

But if they had been asked to compute the sine of 27 degrees or the log
of 7689, the kid would win (if he had the right calculator).

Joe Gwinn

Ed Huntress wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

(...)

Have you ever tried 'SwitcherCad'? It is a Spice program you can
download for free from Linear Technology.

http://www.linear.com/designtools/software/ltspice.jsp

Second the motion. LTSpice is the best kept secret on the web.
It is free and works nearly as well as the $K simulators like Cadence
PSpice (Which I love but cannot afford.)

I've designed and simulated several circuits in LTSpice including
some that required importation of 3rd party models.
It's so easy, even Winston can do it!

I haven't, but I'm a registered Rhino user and I've settled on that for the
little bit of work I do with it these days. I did try an early version of
Spice for electronic design, but it's been years since I was involved in ham
radio.

Try LTSpice Ed! It's way different from the User Vicious (SM) Bad Old Days.
Very fun and user friendly. It is dangerous because you could find yourself
losing a few hours just noodling around with it.

I was one of the first beta testers for Rhino and I've stuck with it.

Rhino! Yay! I love Rhino.

--Winston

Let the Record show that "Snag" on or about
Mon, 22 Jun 2009 20:25:41 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Too late for graphite, too early for Cad

Hey , I'm under 60 (a little...) and I learned to draw with a T-square and
triangles . And lead holders ... I learned to sharpen the leads with a piece
of sandpaper glued to a flat piece of wood .

Ah, the good old days ....

"Why,when I was a boy, we didn't have this fancy graphite. Lead
pencils were made out of real lead! That taught you not to chew on
the pencil!"


tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
Old farts these days - no like when I was a boy. We used to
have us Real Geezers in those days. Now, they'll let anybody
with a little gray hair be an old fart.

Let the Record show that Wes on or about Mon, 22
Jun 2009 18:56:43 -0400 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"RAM³" wrote:
CAD is handy when you have enough power to run the 'puter but it's easier
to use "old tech" when doodling at the coffee shop. grin

Being able to sketch something so I can make another is a pretty handy skill I retained.

I'm of the opinion that you have to be able to sketch it 'on a
cocktail napkin' before you should be turned loose to fire up the
computer. I hear from an engineering friend that his problem on
finding "draftsmen" is that most of the ones who apply, need a full up
drawing for them to put on the computer. If he had time to do the
drawing, he wouldn't need draftsmen!
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 19:49:31 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 17:59:27 -0400, the infamous Gerald Miller
scrawled the following:

The young ladies at supercuts keep trying to trim my eyebrows but I
explain to them that if they did that, I might have to buy sun
glasses, and I wouldn't be able to intimidate anyone.

So you're a Freddie Jones lookalike, are ya?

http://images.absoluteastronomy.com/...ddie_jones.gif
Somewhere along that line. I still have the shades I bought in 1971
when I used to hit Toronto on the 401 every Monday at 5AM.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 02:31:35 -0700, "Steve R."
wrote:

LOL! I can produce a drawing the old way faster than a professional cad
operator! The only advantage of cad is easy distribution of copies, and
corrections/modifications.

Steve R

Beg to disagree. It is also intrinsically more accurate, its ability
to do geometry and trig can be a huge convenience, and one need not
be a professional CAD operator for it to be significantly faster.

I've used and still have the traditional drafting tools and skills. I
worked as a draftsman/detailer at Chevy Engineering back in the '60's,
white shirt and all.

I find CAD both faster and more accurate, even when making
orhtographic projections, true views and suchlike. I use an ancient
version of AutoCAD (R-14) because I invested the time to become
fairly facile and comfortable with it years ago. I agree with others
that ACAD has its warts and is not easy to learn, but it's as
familiar as a pencil to me.

The fastest pro operators do much or most of their work with keyboard
rather than mouse, or at least that was once the case. People can
type a hell of a lot faster than they can mouse. Watching a real pro
make a drawing "happen" with ACAD is quite a show. I seriously doubt
that anyone could do it nearly as quickly with conventional drafting
tools. It would take a fast sketcher to keep up.

It seems that the later versions of ACAD have emphasized selecting tools and
menus as opposed to keyboard shortcuts or entering commands or coordinates
by typing. Most commands still work, I think a few old ones don't, but the
tutorials point you towards navigating the menu structure.I guess that's
true with most software, but it seems markedly less efficient to use ACAD
that way. It's still a tremendously complex program that is not going to be
made user-friendly with some tool palettes.

"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
news snip-
Most I can get away with is about 4 months before SWMBO starts making
broad hints. OTOH she objects to anything around my mouth that grows
wild at the other end of the digestive tract.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Heh! Not mine! She accepts me the way I am, even funky after a hard day's
work. She has never seen me shaved unless you can count the rare few times
she saw me as a young girl when I was chasing with her sister, who was
dating a friend.

I have what amounts to the perfect wife. She NEVER nags, and supports me
when I have a wild hair up my butt, like last fall, when I purchased a used
HAAS toolroom CNC mill. I have no need for it, just wanted it. She thinks
I should have it. She cooks from scratch, even makes whole wheat bread
from fresh ground wheat. I have a keeper.

Eat your hearts out, gents. :-)

Harold

"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:54:53 -0400, Wes wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Listen, young fella, if you were over 60, you'd know better. d8-)

Only 51 and got carded yesterday.

Wes
You are only as old as you feel so I only have birthdays in odd
numbered years. Both Junior and I are 35 this year.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Based on the formula, I'm well over 100 years old.
Can you phrase it a different way? :-)

Harold

"Winston" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

(...)

Have you ever tried 'SwitcherCad'? It is a Spice program you can
download for free from Linear Technology.

http://www.linear.com/designtools/software/ltspice.jsp

Second the motion.

OK, with both of you being enthusiastic, I downloaded it to try it out. I'll
get to it this weekend.

Thanks.

--
Ed Huntress


LTSpice is the best kept secret on the web.
It is free and works nearly as well as the $K simulators like Cadence
PSpice (Which I love but cannot afford.)

I've designed and simulated several circuits in LTSpice including
some that required importation of 3rd party models.
It's so easy, even Winston can do it!

I haven't, but I'm a registered Rhino user and I've settled on that for
the little bit of work I do with it these days. I did try an early
version of Spice for electronic design, but it's been years since I was
involved in ham radio.

Try LTSpice Ed! It's way different from the User Vicious (SM) Bad Old
Days.
Very fun and user friendly. It is dangerous because you could find
yourself
losing a few hours just noodling around with it.

I was one of the first beta testers for Rhino and I've stuck with it.

Rhino! Yay! I love Rhino.

--Winston

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:47:22 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
news snip-
Most I can get away with is about 4 months before SWMBO starts making
broad hints. OTOH she objects to anything around my mouth that grows
wild at the other end of the digestive tract.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Heh! Not mine! She accepts me the way I am, even funky after a hard day's
work. She has never seen me shaved unless you can count the rare few times
she saw me as a young girl when I was chasing with her sister, who was
dating a friend.

I have what amounts to the perfect wife. She NEVER nags, and supports me
when I have a wild hair up my butt, like last fall, when I purchased a used
HAAS toolroom CNC mill. I have no need for it, just wanted it. She thinks
I should have it. She cooks from scratch, even makes whole wheat bread
from fresh ground wheat. I have a keeper.

Eat your hearts out, gents. :-)

Harold

We are much in the same boat with a FEW exceptions, one being that
mine deals in "Uncle Logic". Anti logic being the direct opposite of
logic, "Uncle Logic" moves into another dimension (we will celebrate
our 47th. anniversary Sept. 08).
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:49:32 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:54:53 -0400, Wes wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Listen, young fella, if you were over 60, you'd know better. d8-)

Only 51 and got carded yesterday.

Wes
You are only as old as you feel so I only have birthdays in odd
numbered years. Both Junior and I are 35 this year.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Based on the formula, I'm well over 100 years old.
Can you phrase it a different way? :-)

Harold

You must be in worse shape than I!
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Ed Huntress wrote:
"Winston" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
(...)

Have you ever tried 'SwitcherCad'? It is a Spice program you can
download for free from Linear Technology.

http://www.linear.com/designtools/software/ltspice.jsp
Second the motion.

OK, with both of you being enthusiastic, I downloaded it to try it out. I'll
get to it this weekend.

Thanks.

I'm interested in your reaction.

Notice how your mouse cursor changes from a voltage probe to a current
probe during simulation, depending on where you place it on the part.
Click to take a reading and the results show up on an oscilloscope -
type display.

LTSpice lets you create definitions for simulation measurements
using the Expression Editor.
You can, for instance dynamically calculate power in R1, for example by
editing it's current reading from: 'I(R1)' to: 'I(R1)*(V(n002)-V(n001))'
where the voltages are taken from each side of R1 to ground.
Notice how LTSpice automagically changes the display from 'amps' to 'watts'!


You can copy the equation and paste it into your schematic as a comment,
so it is handy for future simulations when you paste it back into the
Expression Editor.

Super Nifty.

--Winston

"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:47:22 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
news snip-
Most I can get away with is about 4 months before SWMBO starts making
broad hints. OTOH she objects to anything around my mouth that grows
wild at the other end of the digestive tract.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Heh! Not mine! She accepts me the way I am, even funky after a hard day's
work. She has never seen me shaved unless you can count the rare few
times
she saw me as a young girl when I was chasing with her sister, who was
dating a friend.

I have what amounts to the perfect wife. She NEVER nags, and supports
me
when I have a wild hair up my butt, like last fall, when I purchased a
used
HAAS toolroom CNC mill. I have no need for it, just wanted it. She
thinks
I should have it. She cooks from scratch, even makes whole wheat bread
from fresh ground wheat. I have a keeper.

Eat your hearts out, gents. :-)

Harold

We are much in the same boat with a FEW exceptions, one being that
mine deals in "Uncle Logic". Anti logic being the direct opposite of
logic, "Uncle Logic" moves into another dimension (we will celebrate
our 47th. anniversary Sept. 08).
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

You've lost me with the "uncle logic"---can't decide if that's good or bad,
but it sounds like you, too, have a keeper. Congrats on your upcoming
anniversary. Ours is this Saturday---32 years.

I put in 14 years with my ex, which was a very long sentence. g

This gal makes my ex look like the a shrew of the worst description. I
learned that a guy shouldn't get married until he has dated a few gals to
get to know the difference in women. She was the only gal I dated from the
time I was a senior in high school until we got married, five years later.
Biggest mistake of my life. You'd think I would have recognized her for
what she was, but you can't see the forest for the trees when you're that
close to a relationship.

Harold

"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:49:32 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:54:53 -0400, Wes wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Listen, young fella, if you were over 60, you'd know better. d8-)

Only 51 and got carded yesterday.

Wes
You are only as old as you feel so I only have birthdays in odd
numbered years. Both Junior and I are 35 this year.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Based on the formula, I'm well over 100 years old.
Can you phrase it a different way? :-)

Harold

You must be in worse shape than I!
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Heh! Depends on the day. My damned arthritis can make me miserable. It
flared up a week ago, damned near incapacitated me for a day or so. Left
thumb----which is fine now. :-)

I'm actually doing pretty well. Don't have those days I recall that were
full of ambition---but I still manage to put in a reasonable day. Don't
have the stamina I once had, but then I wasn't almost 70 then, either.
That's coming up in just three weeks. No more brown hair---all turned
silver. What's up with that? g

Harold

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 05:01:11 GMT, the infamous "Harold and Susan
Vordos" scrawled the following:


"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:49:32 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:54:53 -0400, Wes wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Listen, young fella, if you were over 60, you'd know better. d8-)

Only 51 and got carded yesterday.

Wes
You are only as old as you feel so I only have birthdays in odd
numbered years. Both Junior and I are 35 this year.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Based on the formula, I'm well over 100 years old.
Can you phrase it a different way? :-)

Harold

You must be in worse shape than I!
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Heh! Depends on the day. My damned arthritis can make me miserable. It
flared up a week ago, damned near incapacitated me for a day or so. Left
thumb----which is fine now. :-)

Find a nice kinesiologist or Naturopath and get yourself checked for
food allergies, 'Arry. When I ruled out the Nightshade family from my
diet, I felt ten years younger and no longer woke up aching in the
morning. When I got away from corn and slowed my coffee intake, the
tendinitis in my right knee went away entirely. I'd bet money on
foods causing 75% of non-flu/cold doctor visits now that mine have
been proven to me.


I'm actually doing pretty well. Don't have those days I recall that were
full of ambition---but I still manage to put in a reasonable day. Don't
have the stamina I once had, but then I wasn't almost 70 then, either.
That's coming up in just three weeks. No more brown hair---all turned
silver. What's up with that? g

It's a plot by the younger generations to make us feel old. I'm trying
not to play along, but it seems to be getting harder every year.

LJ, whose salt equals his pepper lately.

--
Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass;
it's about learning how to dance in the rain.
--Anon

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
.. .


Heh!

If my salt intake equaled my pepper intake, I'd be dead. I love pepper,
often turning the surface of my food black. Wonderful flavor.

I do occasionally wander from my relatively light salt diet. The vet
never told me to not use it, but I have voluntarily cut down, what with my
blood pressure finally requiring medication as of two years ago. Easily
returned to great numbers with just 10 mg of lisinopril. Damn stuff
makes me cough, though.

The exception I speak of is a tomato salad that I make. Nothing but
fresh garden ripened tomatoes (in season), grown where nights are warm,
and sweet onions. Cut them in bite size pieces, add oregano, olive oil
(which I've eaten all my life---that's what Greeks do), vinegar (plain old
white vinegar is fine) and salt. Too much salt. I always say add what
you think is enough, then add a lot more.

There's nothing like my tomato salad with a heated loaf of either Italian
or French bread, sesame seeds optional.

Harold


huh.
i didn't put any tomatos in this year, should've.
my tomato salad is,
vine ripened tomatoes
sliced cucumbers
mozzarella cheese
chopped basil leaves
garlic
olive oil
vinegar
salt
grated romano cheese.

served chilled.

doesn't keep well. gotta fix it and eat it.

i hate onions gak

i like to think this tomato salad it italian. i always think it's of the
colors of the italian flag, tomatoes, mozzarella cheese, basil/cucumbers.

b.w.

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 05:01:11 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:49:32 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:54:53 -0400, Wes wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Listen, young fella, if you were over 60, you'd know better. d8-)

Only 51 and got carded yesterday.

Wes
You are only as old as you feel so I only have birthdays in odd
numbered years. Both Junior and I are 35 this year.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Based on the formula, I'm well over 100 years old.
Can you phrase it a different way? :-)

Harold

You must be in worse shape than I!
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Heh! Depends on the day. My damned arthritis can make me miserable. It
flared up a week ago, damned near incapacitated me for a day or so. Left
thumb----which is fine now. :-)

I'm actually doing pretty well. Don't have those days I recall that were
full of ambition---but I still manage to put in a reasonable day. Don't
have the stamina I once had, but then I wasn't almost 70 then, either.
That's coming up in just three weeks. No more brown hair---all turned
silver. What's up with that? g

Harold

Maternal Grandfather's hair turned white before he was twenty leaving
him with a RED handlebar moustache - must have been an impressive
figure as a 5'6" tall ferrier. I still have a few strands that haven't
gone white (somewhat of a "goatee" look from a distance. Every three
months my doctor informs me that I am still alive and keep taking
Lipitor although she has just added B12 and tells me to get more
exercise (I'm too busy to walk Puppy around the block).
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Gerald Miller wrote:

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 05:01:11 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:49:32 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:54:53 -0400, Wes wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Listen, young fella, if you were over 60, you'd know better. d8-)

Only 51 and got carded yesterday.

Wes
You are only as old as you feel so I only have birthdays in odd
numbered years. Both Junior and I are 35 this year.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Based on the formula, I'm well over 100 years old.
Can you phrase it a different way? :-)

Harold

You must be in worse shape than I!
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Heh! Depends on the day. My damned arthritis can make me miserable. It
flared up a week ago, damned near incapacitated me for a day or so. Left
thumb----which is fine now. :-)

I'm actually doing pretty well. Don't have those days I recall that were
full of ambition---but I still manage to put in a reasonable day. Don't
have the stamina I once had, but then I wasn't almost 70 then, either.
That's coming up in just three weeks. No more brown hair---all turned
silver. What's up with that? g

Harold

Maternal Grandfather's hair turned white before he was twenty leaving
him with a RED handlebar moustache - must have been an impressive
figure as a 5'6" tall ferrier. I still have a few strands that haven't
gone white (somewhat of a "goatee" look from a distance. Every three
months my doctor informs me that I am still alive and keep taking
Lipitor although she has just added B12 and tells me to get more
exercise (I'm too busy to walk Puppy around the block).


I have idiots suggest I jog three miles a day while I'm standing
there, leaning on my cane to keep from falling.

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 23:28:23 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Gerald Miller wrote:
Every three
months my doctor informs me that I am still alive and keep taking
Lipitor although she has just added B12 and tells me to get more
exercise (I'm too busy to walk Puppy around the block).


I have idiots suggest I jog three miles a day while I'm standing
there, leaning on my cane to keep from falling.
I am extremely fortunate in that the only problem I have is the
aftermath of a broken heel 21 years ago and walking is the recommended
physio therapy for that. If I over exercise, I get discomfort, but the
more I do, the more I can do. Thus, my lack of exercise can only be
attributed to lack of motivation.



Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Wed, 24 Jun 2009 21:19:32 -0400, "ATP*"
wrote:


"Don Foreman" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 02:31:35 -0700, "Steve R."
wrote:

LOL! I can produce a drawing the old way faster than a professional cad
operator! The only advantage of cad is easy distribution of copies, and
corrections/modifications.

Steve R

Beg to disagree. It is also intrinsically more accurate, its ability
to do geometry and trig can be a huge convenience, and one need not
be a professional CAD operator for it to be significantly faster.

I've used and still have the traditional drafting tools and skills. I
worked as a draftsman/detailer at Chevy Engineering back in the '60's,
white shirt and all.

I find CAD both faster and more accurate, even when making
orhtographic projections, true views and suchlike. I use an ancient
version of AutoCAD (R-14) because I invested the time to become
fairly facile and comfortable with it years ago. I agree with others
that ACAD has its warts and is not easy to learn, but it's as
familiar as a pencil to me.

The fastest pro operators do much or most of their work with keyboard
rather than mouse, or at least that was once the case. People can
type a hell of a lot faster than they can mouse. Watching a real pro
make a drawing "happen" with ACAD is quite a show. I seriously doubt
that anyone could do it nearly as quickly with conventional drafting
tools. It would take a fast sketcher to keep up.

It seems that the later versions of ACAD have emphasized selecting tools and
menus as opposed to keyboard shortcuts or entering commands or coordinates
by typing. Most commands still work, I think a few old ones don't, but the
tutorials point you towards navigating the menu structure.I guess that's
true with most software, but it seems markedly less efficient to use ACAD
that way. It's still a tremendously complex program that is not going to be
made user-friendly with some tool palettes.

Right, and that may be why it continues to be a de facto standard
drafting program for professionals, particularly architechts. It
doesn't compromise speed and efficiency for skilled users to be
"user-friendly" to casual users. CAD technology and software has made
huge strides in the past two decades as regards design and 3D
parametric modelling e.g. ProE, SolidWorks, Alibre, etc, but drafting
is still pretty much drafting. ACAD does drafting and geometry with
almost arbitrary precision, and with mindboggling speed at the hands
of a skilled operator. It is possible (and easy) to make a drawing
with scope of precision like a drawing of a state-wide railroad
network that can zoom in on the winding stem of a brakeman's watch
dimensioned in microns.

Gerald Miller wrote:

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 23:28:23 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Gerald Miller wrote:
Every three
months my doctor informs me that I am still alive and keep taking
Lipitor although she has just added B12 and tells me to get more
exercise (I'm too busy to walk Puppy around the block).


I have idiots suggest I jog three miles a day while I'm standing
there, leaning on my cane to keep from falling.
I am extremely fortunate in that the only problem I have is the
aftermath of a broken heel 21 years ago and walking is the recommended
physio therapy for that. If I over exercise, I get discomfort, but the
more I do, the more I can do. Thus, my lack of exercise can only be
attributed to lack of motivation.


I used to spend up to 16 hours a day on my feet while working two
full time jobs. I'm lucky if I can spend one or two hours a day on my
feet, these days.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

On Tue, 23 Jun 2009 21:08:45 -0700 (PDT), Andrew VK3BFA
wrote:

On Jun 24, 2:00 pm, Don Foreman wrote:

Don, it pains me to say it, but this thread proves we are turning/have
turned into a bunch of old farts, lamenting the "good old days"........
(I include myself in this, just had my 56 birthday)

Andrew VK3BFA.

I'm definitely a card-carrying cardiac-implanted, creaky,
grandfatherly old fart, kid, but I don't lament the retirement of my
old drafting tools in favor of CAD software. I haven't used my old
Vemco drafting machine in more than a decade.

I keep learning new skills. That takes longer than it used to, but we
retired guys have time to spend on learning slowly. Five years ago I
could barely hit the inside of an outhouse with a 1911 .45. I've
practiced and improved some since then. Selecting a gray head as prey
can be risky to a predator in Minnesota USA, perhaps less so in Oz if
you have fewer predators and no predators have firearms in Oz. I
suppose that depends a lot on where in Oz, as it does here.

In the "good old days" in the U.S., young men didn't expect instant
gratification, gov't handouts or easy paths paved by "others" and we
didn't have to lock our doors. I do lament the passing of that era.

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 21:23:10 -0400, Gerald Miller
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Jun 2009 05:01:11 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 25 Jun 2009 07:49:32 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 22 Jun 2009 18:54:53 -0400, Wes wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

Listen, young fella, if you were over 60, you'd know better. d8-)

Only 51 and got carded yesterday.

Wes
You are only as old as you feel so I only have birthdays in odd
numbered years. Both Junior and I are 35 this year.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Based on the formula, I'm well over 100 years old.
Can you phrase it a different way? :-)

Harold

You must be in worse shape than I!
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Heh! Depends on the day. My damned arthritis can make me miserable. It
flared up a week ago, damned near incapacitated me for a day or so. Left
thumb----which is fine now. :-)

I'm actually doing pretty well. Don't have those days I recall that were
full of ambition---but I still manage to put in a reasonable day. Don't
have the stamina I once had, but then I wasn't almost 70 then, either.
That's coming up in just three weeks. No more brown hair---all turned
silver. What's up with that? g

Harold

Maternal Grandfather's hair turned white before he was twenty leaving
him with a RED handlebar moustache - must have been an impressive
figure as a 5'6" tall ferrier. I still have a few strands that haven't
gone white (somewhat of a "goatee" look from a distance. Every three
months my doctor informs me that I am still alive and keep taking
Lipitor although she has just added B12 and tells me to get more
exercise (I'm too busy to walk Puppy around the block).
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Too busy to live? Your choice, of course.

Having a heart attack due to arterial blockages and subsequent bypass
surgery can adjust attitude a bit for some. It did for me.

Walking puppy round the block doesn't nearly get 'er done -- but
shorter good life surely would beat the hell out of an extended
invalid life of dependance and inexorable decay.

Pick yer pony, take yer ride. G

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
snip--.

LJ, whose salt equals his pepper lately.

Heh!

If my salt intake equaled my pepper intake, I'd be dead. I love pepper,
often turning the surface of my food black. Wonderful flavor.

I do occasionally wander from my relatively light salt diet. The vet never
told me to not use it, but I have voluntarily cut down, what with my blood
pressure finally requiring medication as of two years ago. Easily returned
to great numbers with just 10 mg of lisinopril. Damn stuff makes me cough,
though.

The exception I speak of is a tomato salad that I make. Nothing but fresh
garden ripened tomatoes (in season), grown where nights are warm, and sweet
onions. Cut them in bite size pieces, add oregano, olive oil (which I've
eaten all my life---that's what Greeks do), vinegar (plain old white vinegar
is fine) and salt. Too much salt. I always say add what you think is
enough, then add a lot more.

There's nothing like my tomato salad with a heated loaf of either Italian or
French bread, sesame seeds optional.

Harold

On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 07:39:17 GMT, the infamous "Harold and Susan
Vordos" scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
snip--.

LJ, whose salt equals his pepper lately.

Heh!

If my salt intake equaled my pepper intake, I'd be dead. I love pepper,
often turning the surface of my food black. Wonderful flavor.

I'm with you. The reference above was my hair color, not my dietary
habits, sir. Blushing yet, 'Arry? g


I do occasionally wander from my relatively light salt diet. The vet never
told me to not use it, but I have voluntarily cut down, what with my blood
pressure finally requiring medication as of two years ago. Easily returned
to great numbers with just 10 mg of lisinopril. Damn stuff makes me cough,
though.


The exception I speak of is a tomato salad that I make. Nothing but fresh
garden ripened tomatoes (in season), grown where nights are warm, and sweet
onions. Cut them in bite size pieces, add oregano, olive oil (which I've
eaten all my life---that's what Greeks do), vinegar (plain old white vinegar
is fine) and salt. Too much salt. I always say add what you think is
enough, then add a lot more.

Hasen't your vet switched you to Potassium Chloride yet? I'm thinking
about making the jump myself. I have white rings around both irises,
but I use 5x more pepper than salt, and have for 25 years now. I do
love my salty snacks, though. A bag of pretzels a week isn't too
much, IMHO, but my eyes state a different set of facts.


There's nothing like my tomato salad with a heated loaf of either Italian or
French bread, sesame seeds optional.

Since I'm allergic, I'll pass on your type of salad. I put everything
under the sun in mine, usually having a large bucket of precut
greens/yellows/oranges in the fridge for a quick salad prep. Well, at
least I did. I don't know what's happened to my salad eating lately. I
have been letting various veggies go bad in the fridge for nearly a
year now with no apparent excuse nor rhyme nor reason for it.

I finally put a (raised bed and) garden in this year and it's getting
me more in the mood for fresh veggies. I tried a pinto-bean sized
radish yesterday and it was great, and HOT. Yum! (I need to put my
little "Grow, damnit!" laser-carved pebble out there to encourage the
little buggers.)

--
Life is not about waiting for the storms to pass;
it's about learning how to dance in the rain.
--Anon

On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 07:39:17 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:

snip
The exception I speak of is a tomato salad that I make. Nothing but fresh
garden ripened tomatoes (in season), grown where nights are warm, and sweet
onions. Cut them in bite size pieces, add oregano, olive oil (which I've
eaten all my life---that's what Greeks do), vinegar (plain old white vinegar
is fine) and salt. Too much salt. I always say add what you think is
enough, then add a lot more.

There's nothing like my tomato salad with a heated loaf of either Italian or
French bread, sesame seeds optional.

Harold

NPR recently had an interesting Tomato Pie recipe. I haven't
tried it yet, but it sounded good. See:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...0854#104469203

===
Tomato Pie

Make 1 biscuit recipe from the Bisquick box

Use as a pie crust and bake it. Place either ceramic baking
beads or another pie plate on top of it to keep it from
rising out of control.

Layer in the pie crust (really high) the sweet onions sliced
pretty thin (generally 1 big one) and the garden fresh
tomatoes not too thin (about 2 lbs). Season each layer of
tomatoes with salt, fresh cracked pepper and fresh basil.

Make a top crust with 2 cups shredded cheddar and 1 cup
mayo. Mix the cheese and mayo with your hands and squish it
all over the pie like a top crust.

Bake at 350 degrees for 45 minutes to an hour.

On the crust, I used half goat cheese, half mayo, but you
have to have the mayo to make the crust.

From: Kathy Lloyd, Pittsfield, Mass
===

Some pictures and comments if you follow the link.

No ripe tomatoes here yet

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 07:39:17 GMT, the infamous "Harold and Susan
Vordos" scrawled the following:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
snip--.

LJ, whose salt equals his pepper lately.

Heh!

If my salt intake equaled my pepper intake, I'd be dead. I love pepper,
often turning the surface of my food black. Wonderful flavor.

I'm with you. The reference above was my hair color, not my dietary
habits, sir. Blushing yet, 'Arry? g

You kidding? I'm too stupid to get embarrassed.

snip

Hasen't your vet switched you to Potassium Chloride yet? I'm thinking
about making the jump myself. I have white rings around both irises,
but I use 5x more pepper than salt, and have for 25 years now. I do
love my salty snacks, though. A bag of pretzels a week isn't too
much, IMHO, but my eyes state a different set of facts.

Don't know anything about white rings around eyes, but my vet, who is no
longer in the clinic we visit, never made mention about using salt, or a
substitute. I can only imagine it's because my pressure was just marginally
high. He was very thorough about other matters. We miss him. Politics in
the clinic drove him away, just as it has others. He was an exceptional
vet, ex-military.

Eat your veggies! You should know better than to avoid them. Even
boiled mustard greens, which are a favorite of mine.

Harold

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 27 Jun 2009 07:39:17 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:

snip
The exception I speak of is a tomato salad that I make. Nothing but
fresh
garden ripened tomatoes (in season), grown where nights are warm, and
sweet
onions. Cut them in bite size pieces, add oregano, olive oil (which
I've
eaten all my life---that's what Greeks do), vinegar (plain old white
vinegar
is fine) and salt. Too much salt. I always say add what you think is
enough, then add a lot more.

There's nothing like my tomato salad with a heated loaf of either Italian
or
French bread, sesame seeds optional.

Harold

NPR recently had an interesting Tomato Pie recipe. I haven't
tried it yet, but it sounded good. See:

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/s...0854#104469203

I mentioned it to Susan, who thought it might be a good idea to try. I've
copied the recipe. Now to find time to give it a go. She has so many
good things she prepares that we go months before repeating some of her
recipes.

Thanks, Leon.

Harold