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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#41
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Breathing air from a compressor
Richard J Kinch writes:
You breathe more oil fog and vapor cooking dinner. Yeah, but that's vegetable oil, not mineral oil ... So what? You're just being superstitious. Please explain the organic chemistry if you assert some hazard to mineral oil. Mineral oil is in the USP. People coat their skin with it and drink it medicinally. It is in all kinds of cosmetics applied near sensitive tissues. Mineral oil is a legal food additive in the USA. Maybe you're confused by the indiscriminate "harmful or fatal" warnings. We breathe mineral oil fog and vapor all day long in a metalworking environment from hot chips. You should use non-detergent types without the additives, not automotive motor oil, if there will be bodily exposure. Breathing air fed off the compressed air main is done commercially - see it in foundry fettling shops. For a person working in a fixed position, it gives a light-weight uninterrupted feed. Here's equipment I've seen - "3M" Co's website http://solutions.3m.co.uk/wps/portal...Z C6FRTPMWXgl 3M Aircare Air Filter Units The 3M Aircare 500GR Air Filtration Units for preparation of compressed air for the 3M range of Supplied-Air Respirators or PDF: http://solutions.3m.co.uk/wps/portal...Z C6FRTPMWXgl "Supplied Air Range Brochure - Data Sheet (PDF 1.4 MB)" Richard Smith |
#42
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Breathing air from a compressor
In article ,
Richard J Kinch wrote: You breathe more oil fog and vapor cooking dinner. Yeah, but that's vegetable oil, not mineral oil ... So what? You're just being superstitious. Please explain the organic chemistry if you assert some hazard to mineral oil. Mineral oil is in the USP. People coat their skin with it and drink it medicinally. It is in all kinds of cosmetics applied near sensitive tissues. Mineral oil is a legal food additive in the USA. Maybe you're confused by the indiscriminate "harmful or fatal" warnings. We breathe mineral oil fog and vapor all day long in a metalworking environment from hot chips. You should use non-detergent types without the additives, not automotive motor oil, if there will be bodily exposure. Well, I breathed a bit too much oil emulsion coolant mist one busy weekend, and was coughing for days. Maybe not a danger, but sure was annoying. So I got a face mask that filters oil mist out, which worked. So I can sympathize with the OP who wants to keep the oil mists out. Joe Gwinn |
#43
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Breathing air from a compressor
On Jun 13, 12:41*am, Richard J Kinch wrote:
Too_Many_Tools writes: You might want to read this. You can get chemical pneumonia from your own saliva. The dose makes the poison. You can break your neck falling out of bed too. It is up to each individual to decide what risks they want to take in life. And to pay the resulting price for errors in their judgment. TMT |
#44
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Breathing air from a compressor
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message ... On Jun 13, 12:41 am, Richard J Kinch wrote: Too_Many_Tools writes: You might want to read this. You can get chemical pneumonia from your own saliva. The dose makes the poison. You can break your neck falling out of bed too. It is up to each individual to decide what risks they want to take in life. And to pay the resulting price for errors in their judgment. TMT ------------------------------------------------------- Yeah perhaps, but just because some people like to run around screaming the sky is falling, is no reason for knowledgeable people to dive in to the basement. Scuba divers have been breathing compressed, filtered air from piston compressors with petroleum oil for more than 50 years without incident. It's just not that hard to adequately filter the air. |
#45
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Breathing air from a compressor
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message ... On Jun 13, 12:41 am, Richard J Kinch wrote: Too_Many_Tools writes: You might want to read this. You can get chemical pneumonia from your own saliva. The dose makes the poison. You can break your neck falling out of bed too. It is up to each individual to decide what risks they want to take in life. And to pay the resulting price for errors in their judgment. TMT Oh my gosh. An extreme liberal saying self responsibility is good. The world may end, Hades may be freezing over. |
#46
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Breathing air from a compressor
Too_Many_Tools writes:
It is up to each individual to decide what risks they want to take in life. No yankee-can-do spirit for you, eh? I refuse to live a squeamish, abstemious life ruled by superstitious fears. If the theory and experience show something to be safe, one should have faith in the scientific knowledge instead of quailing over something invisible. It does amaze me that someone will stand over a pan of frying bacon every morning, inhaling significant doses of organic chemical fog and vapor, including hydrocarbon oils and fatty acids, nitrates, nitrosamines, combustion products, and particulates, and then recoil in horror at a whiff of petroleum. Turpentine and petroleum oil are US FDA GRAS food ingredients, or US CPSC "harmful or fatal if swallowed", depending on which bit of the government is looking over your shoulder. |
#47
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Breathing air from a compressor
The air that comes out of my 58 year old compressor is definitely
unsuitable for breathing. This compressor may not be representative, for obvious reasons. In any case, I would try to put at least two filters in the air line to be on the safe side. If the air does not smell after filteriing, I would use it. as there are many cheap sources of breathing air, there is no sense to use anything substandard. ** Sent from my Google phone ** I apologize for any typos ** i |
#48
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Breathing air from a compressor
"Ignoramus5857" wrote in message ... The air that comes out of my 58 year old compressor is definitely unsuitable for breathing. This compressor may not be representative, for obvious reasons. In any case, I would try to put at least two filters in the air line to be on the safe side. If the air does not smell after filteriing, I would use it. as there are many cheap sources of breathing air, there is no sense to use anything substandard. Why would anybody screw around with breathing air? Look at the junk that gets drained out of compressor tanks. Not what I want to breathe, unless it's been through a big Bullard filter, and they cost a bit more than most of us are willing to spring for. |
#49
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Breathing air from a compressor
On 2009-06-14, ATP* wrote:
"Ignoramus5857" wrote in message ... The air that comes out of my 58 year old compressor is definitely unsuitable for breathing. This compressor may not be representative, for obvious reasons. In any case, I would try to put at least two filters in the air line to be on the safe side. If the air does not smell after filteriing, I would use it. as there are many cheap sources of breathing air, there is no sense to use anything substandard. Why would anybody screw around with breathing air? Look at the junk that gets drained out of compressor tanks. Not what I want to breathe, unless it's been through a big Bullard filter, and they cost a bit more than most of us are willing to spring for. Those are not necessarily expensive. I had a 5 HP Bullard breathing air pump once that I could not sell for even $50. That was a very lucky circumstance, as I quickly realized that I could use its 5 HP single phase motor on my old Curtis compressor. I think that a HVLP turbine should be acceptable for breathing air and is a nice inexpensive package. Same with a very cheap vacuum cleaner switched to blowing, as long as you did not use it for collecting dust. Again, I would not hesitate to use a compressor, if after filtering its air does not smell of anything (and this is a big if). i |
#50
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Breathing air from a compressor
Calif Bill wrote: "jay" wrote in message ... On Jun 11, 8:59 pm, Richard J Kinch wrote: jay writes: I assume it's not safe to breathe air from an oil lubricated air compressor at sea level. I do it all the time and so do my kids. We hook it up to a scuba regulator and practice scuba diving in the swimming pool. Never detected any irritation or as much as a scratchy throat from doing this for long periods. Boat and pool repair guys do this to work underwater. The compressor consists of some metal and clean hydrocarbon oil, so there's nothing particularly toxic in low amounts. The amount of oil entrained into the air must be way below any OSHA limits for oil vapor, since the oil consumption of a well-running compressor is miniscule. I'm sure that running a lathe with kerosene cutting fluid and hot chips generates more oil vapor into the lungs via ambient air than this. I was working with this every day I might add a filter canister. Now in filling scuba tanks to 3500 psi you have to be scrupulously clean, but this is only 90 psi. I'm more worried about microbes growing in the puddle in the bottom of the compressor tank. But the intake filter should keep out most of the nutrition for them, so there's just clean distilled water and rust in there. http://www.truetex.com/scuba_lp.pdf Are you saying that even an oil lubricated compressor is safe to breathe @ 1 bar (sea level). If oil lubed compressors are safe a 1 bar, that's great news for me. Being a former SCUBA diver we were always told not to use an oiled compressor. Just need the oil to get by the rings just once to cause a really bad case of pneumonia. Since there are oil less pumps, why tempt fate? Nearly all SCUBA/SCBA HP compressors are oil lubricated, pretty much the only breathing air compressors that are oilless are the little portable airline units for surface use. The two important points with the oil lubed units are proper filtration and proper maintenance of the compressor so it's running within spec. Poor maint can lead to excessive operating temps in the HP stages, combustion of the oil and resulting carbon monoxide in the output air. |
#51
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Breathing air from a compressor
"Ignoramus5857" wrote in message ... On 2009-06-14, ATP* wrote: "Ignoramus5857" wrote in message ... The air that comes out of my 58 year old compressor is definitely unsuitable for breathing. This compressor may not be representative, for obvious reasons. In any case, I would try to put at least two filters in the air line to be on the safe side. If the air does not smell after filteriing, I would use it. as there are many cheap sources of breathing air, there is no sense to use anything substandard. Why would anybody screw around with breathing air? Look at the junk that gets drained out of compressor tanks. Not what I want to breathe, unless it's been through a big Bullard filter, and they cost a bit more than most of us are willing to spring for. Those are not necessarily expensive. I had a 5 HP Bullard breathing air pump once that I could not sell for even $50. That was a very lucky circumstance, as I quickly realized that I could use its 5 HP single phase motor on my old Curtis compressor. I think that a HVLP turbine should be acceptable for breathing air and is a nice inexpensive package. Same with a very cheap vacuum cleaner switched to blowing, as long as you did not use it for collecting dust. Again, I would not hesitate to use a compressor, if after filtering its air does not smell of anything (and this is a big if). i 5 hp would supply a lot of breathing air! The Bullard filter I was referring to can be used with a regular tow-behind compressor, in conjunction with CO monitoring. The setup is fairly expensive. |
#52
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Breathing air from a compressor
On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 20:16:01 -0700 (PDT), jay wrote:
Hi All I assume it's not safe to breathe air from an oil lubricated air compressor at sea level. As an alternative to all the other posturing, here's a thought. Specifically relating to oil contamination of the air. If the air's clean enough to use in a paint spray gun, it's clean enough to breath. This does not account for carbon monoxide from the gas engine driving the compressor or re-circulated isocyanate fumes from the paint booth :-) Mark Rand(been spray painting today) RTFM |
#53
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Breathing air from a compressor
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 23:22:17 +0100, Mark Rand
wrote: On Thu, 11 Jun 2009 20:16:01 -0700 (PDT), jay wrote: Hi All I assume it's not safe to breathe air from an oil lubricated air compressor at sea level. As an alternative to all the other posturing, here's a thought. Specifically relating to oil contamination of the air. If the air's clean enough to use in a paint spray gun, it's clean enough to breath. This does not account for carbon monoxide from the gas engine driving the compressor or re-circulated isocyanate fumes from the paint booth :-) Nor does it account for the carbon monoxide sometimes produced from the lubricating oil getting past the rings and getting hot. And the problem with CO is that it binds to hemoglobin much better than O2 so even a tiny amount over a long period of time can poison you. Mark Rand(been spray painting today) RTFM ERS |
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