DIYbanter

DIYbanter (https://www.diybanter.com/)
-   Metalworking (https://www.diybanter.com/metalworking/)
-   -   OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots can kill you (https://www.diybanter.com/metalworking/276163-ot-small-cars-dangerous-cars-fuel-economy-zealots-can-kill-you.html)

Joseph Gwinn April 18th 09 12:42 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots can kill you
 
Title says it all. Actually tons of metal involved. But too little for
safety.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123993371229527975.html

This is a shot in the coming fight about CAFE.

The Wall Street Journal, 17 April 2009.

Joe Gwinn

Ignoramus14774 April 18th 09 01:16 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots cankill you
 
On 2009-04-17, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
Title says it all. Actually tons of metal involved. But too little for
safety.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123993371229527975.html

This is a shot in the coming fight about CAFE.

The Wall Street Journal, 17 April 2009.


So they say that minis fare badly in collision with heavier cars.
That's understandable.

I am wondering about something? Does fuel efficiency of those tiny
cars come from then being small in dimensions, or light in weight?

I suspect that it is mostly the former, due to improved wind
resistance and such.

If so, perhaps the tiny economy cars could be made heavier, but kept
to the same dimensions? Such as, perhaps, the frame could be made from
solid steel instead of tubing.

Too_Many_Tools April 18th 09 01:26 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots cankill you
 
On Apr 17, 5:42*pm, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
Title says it all. *Actually tons of metal involved. *But too little for
safety.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123993371229527975.html

This is a shot in the coming fight about CAFE.

The Wall Street Journal, 17 April 2009.

Joe Gwinn


Interesting and I have been following this.

Whether the American public understands it or not, smaller more
efficient vehicles are coming and are long over due.

If anyone thought gas prices will stay low, they need to do some
research.

Emissions are another big issue that was buried the last eight years
that is now being dealt with.

And from the looks of it, American companies will not be the producers
of these vehicles.

TMT


cavelamb April 18th 09 01:53 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots cankill you
 
Ignoramus14774 wrote:
On 2009-04-17, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
Title says it all. Actually tons of metal involved. But too little for
safety.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123993371229527975.html

This is a shot in the coming fight about CAFE.

The Wall Street Journal, 17 April 2009.


So they say that minis fare badly in collision with heavier cars.
That's understandable.




No, they said teh *single car* death rate was twice the norm.



I am wondering about something? Does fuel efficiency of those tiny
cars come from then being small in dimensions, or light in weight?



Both, but at around town speeds, it's almost all about weight.

The stop and go aspect of city traffic means constantly accelerating
up to speed - then stopping. Then accelerating again.

Lighter weights (actually less mass) takes less energy to accelerate.


I suspect that it is mostly the former, due to improved wind
resistance and such.


Only at high speeds. 60 - 70 MPH on the highway verses 20 to 30 around town.

Google "aerodynamics of bluff bodies" for the ugly details.

If so, perhaps the tiny economy cars could be made heavier, but kept
to the same dimensions? Such as, perhaps, the frame could be made from
solid steel instead of tubing.


They need "crush space" to allow structure to dissipate energy while collapsing.
That's hard to come by when your feet reach the front bumper...


Richard

Tim[_10_] April 18th 09 01:54 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots can kill you
 

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...
On Apr 17, 5:42 pm, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
Title says it all. Actually tons of metal involved. But too little for
safety.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123993371229527975.html

This is a shot in the coming fight about CAFE.

The Wall Street Journal, 17 April 2009.

Joe Gwinn


Interesting and I have been following this.

Whether the American public understands it or not, smaller more
efficient vehicles are coming and are long over due.

If anyone thought gas prices will stay low, they need to do some
research.

Emissions are another big issue that was buried the last eight years
that is now being dealt with.

And from the looks of it, American companies will not be the producers
of these vehicles.

TMT

---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\\

Indeed, it's high time people pay for their liability coverage by the pound.

If people want to drive an IRON chariot, let them pay the price in insurance
and the additonal damage they cause in an accident.





Martin H. Eastburn April 18th 09 04:58 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots cankill you
 
I remember the exact same rationale in 1985.

A lady engineer drove a monster tank of a Caddy.
It was the largest one made for people.

Other engineers drove sporty cars.

She got heck from them - but one after another 'others' were
in bad, bad crushing problems. She was T-Boned one day and
the other car was crushed. She needed paint and a little Bondo.

Larger mass wins. Battery cars - lead acid types are death unto
the other cars.

Martin


Ignoramus14774 wrote:
On 2009-04-17, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
Title says it all. Actually tons of metal involved. But too little for
safety.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123993371229527975.html

This is a shot in the coming fight about CAFE.

The Wall Street Journal, 17 April 2009.


So they say that minis fare badly in collision with heavier cars.
That's understandable.

I am wondering about something? Does fuel efficiency of those tiny
cars come from then being small in dimensions, or light in weight?

I suspect that it is mostly the former, due to improved wind
resistance and such.

If so, perhaps the tiny economy cars could be made heavier, but kept
to the same dimensions? Such as, perhaps, the frame could be made from
solid steel instead of tubing.


ignator April 18th 09 05:39 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots cankill you
 
On Apr 17, 5:42 pm, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
Title says it all. Actually tons of metal involved. But too little for
safety.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123993371229527975.html

This is a shot in the coming fight about CAFE.

The Wall Street Journal, 17 April 2009.

Joe Gwinn


The fix is simple. The operator "cockpit" shall only be allowed to be
in front of the bumper. This shall be law for all vehicles greater
then 2000 lbs. This cockpit shall be constructed only of thin plastic
and Plexiglas. When the operator does something stupid, they are kill
immediately, removing them from the gene pool. Those that drive
smartly do not kill any one else. This stops the "I'm invincible"
mentality where they make left turns in front of motor cycles, or
economy cars.
This applies to any thing over 2000 lbs. semi-trucks, ag-tractors,
etc. fixing this problem of idiots that drive with out consequences.
ignator

Bill Noble[_2_] April 18th 09 05:57 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots can kill you
 

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
Title says it all. Actually tons of metal involved. But too little for
safety.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123993371229527975.html

This is a shot in the coming fight about CAFE.

The Wall Street Journal, 17 April 2009.

Joe Gwinn


my experience is different - though the small cars I've driven for decades
have been high end ones not inexpensive econoboxes - it is much cheaper to
buy a 10 year old excellent car than a brand new cheapie



Gerald Miller April 18th 09 06:33 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots can kill you
 
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:57:27 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:


"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
Title says it all. Actually tons of metal involved. But too little for
safety.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123993371229527975.html

This is a shot in the coming fight about CAFE.

The Wall Street Journal, 17 April 2009.

Joe Gwinn


my experience is different - though the small cars I've driven for decades
have been high end ones not inexpensive econoboxes - it is much cheaper to
buy a 10 year old excellent car than a brand new cheapie

From what I've seen around here, the luxury car is kept for three
years and traded in for new. It then goes out as a taxi for about six
years until it becomes un-economical to keep on the road 24/7, at
which point it gets cleaned up, painted and put on the used car lot
and sold to a single mother with three kids on welfare. Of course she
can't keep up the payments, repairs and 5MPG city gas cost so it gets
repossessed and resold about three more times before going for
recycling.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Calif Bill April 18th 09 07:08 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots can kill you
 

"ignator" wrote in message
...
On Apr 17, 5:42 pm, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
Title says it all. Actually tons of metal involved. But too little for
safety.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123993371229527975.html

This is a shot in the coming fight about CAFE.

The Wall Street Journal, 17 April 2009.

Joe Gwinn


The fix is simple. The operator "cockpit" shall only be allowed to be
in front of the bumper. This shall be law for all vehicles greater
then 2000 lbs. This cockpit shall be constructed only of thin plastic
and Plexiglas. When the operator does something stupid, they are kill
immediately, removing them from the gene pool. Those that drive
smartly do not kill any one else. This stops the "I'm invincible"
mentality where they make left turns in front of motor cycles, or
economy cars.
This applies to any thing over 2000 lbs. semi-trucks, ag-tractors,
etc. fixing this problem of idiots that drive with out consequences.
ignator


The damage to the front of my pickup is from a small car backing in to the
front. Dark and rainy. So you think the small cars can get away with
killing and mayhem?



Michael A. Terrell April 18th 09 07:12 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots can killyou
 

Tim wrote:

"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...
On Apr 17, 5:42 pm, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
Title says it all. Actually tons of metal involved. But too little for
safety.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123993371229527975.html

This is a shot in the coming fight about CAFE.

The Wall Street Journal, 17 April 2009.

Joe Gwinn


Interesting and I have been following this.

Whether the American public understands it or not, smaller more
efficient vehicles are coming and are long over due.

If anyone thought gas prices will stay low, they need to do some
research.

Emissions are another big issue that was buried the last eight years
that is now being dealt with.

And from the looks of it, American companies will not be the producers
of these vehicles.

TMT

---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\\

Indeed, it's high time people pay for their liability coverage by the pound.

If people want to drive an IRON chariot, let them pay the price in insurance
and the additonal damage they cause in an accident.



What about people who physically can't fit into those tiny 'death on
wheels' toys because of longer than average legs, or being disabled?
Every small vehicle I looked at the last time was impossible to drive
because my knees hit the dash, or I couldn't get in or out without help,
because of so little room under the steering wheel that I couldn't use a
cane to help me in or out of the driver's seat?


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Don Foreman April 18th 09 08:52 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots can kill you
 
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:26:54 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

On Apr 17, 5:42*pm, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
Title says it all. *Actually tons of metal involved. *But too little for
safety.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123993371229527975.html

This is a shot in the coming fight about CAFE.

The Wall Street Journal, 17 April 2009.

Joe Gwinn


Interesting and I have been following this.

Whether the American public understands it or not, smaller more
efficient vehicles are coming and are long over due.

If anyone thought gas prices will stay low, they need to do some
research.

Emissions are another big issue that was buried the last eight years
that is now being dealt with.

And from the looks of it, American companies will not be the producers
of these vehicles.

TMT


Perhaps American companies will produce the armament for these
vehicle?

Bill Noble[_2_] April 18th 09 09:42 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots can kill you
 

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...



What about people who physically can't fit into those tiny 'death on
wheels' toys because of longer than average legs, or being disabled?
Every small vehicle I looked at the last time was impossible to drive
because my knees hit the dash, or I couldn't get in or out without help,
because of so little room under the steering wheel that I couldn't use a
cane to help me in or out of the driver's seat?


--


there certainly are "smaller" cars that are easy to get in and out of - they
just don't have them here in the good old USA because by god, if were were
meant to ride in small cars he wouldn't have given us high fat fast food.

ok, seriously, there are some - for example, the Fiat Doblo, but they aren't
imported.



Leon Fisk April 18th 09 09:28 PM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots can kill you
 
On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 00:42:54 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:

snip
there certainly are "smaller" cars that are easy to get in and out of - they
just don't have them here in the good old USA because by god, if were were
meant to ride in small cars he wouldn't have given us high fat fast food.

ok, seriously, there are some - for example, the Fiat Doblo, but they aren't
imported.


The new, redesigned VW Beetle is suppose to be easy for
oversized people to get in/out of (shrug).

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

[email protected] April 19th 09 12:19 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots can kill you
 
On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 00:33:25 -0400, Gerald Miller
wrote:

On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 20:57:27 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:


"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
Title says it all. Actually tons of metal involved. But too little for
safety.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123993371229527975.html

This is a shot in the coming fight about CAFE.

The Wall Street Journal, 17 April 2009.

Joe Gwinn


my experience is different - though the small cars I've driven for decades
have been high end ones not inexpensive econoboxes - it is much cheaper to
buy a 10 year old excellent car than a brand new cheapie

From what I've seen around here, the luxury car is kept for three
years and traded in for new. It then goes out as a taxi for about six
years until it becomes un-economical to keep on the road 24/7, at
which point it gets cleaned up, painted and put on the used car lot
and sold to a single mother with three kids on welfare. Of course she
can't keep up the payments, repairs and 5MPG city gas cost so it gets
repossessed and resold about three more times before going for
recycling.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Almost right Gerry.

Around here it's the "wannabee" Financial Planners and ReMax realtors
that drive the"used and abused" (5 year old or older)Caddies and
Conties, old Bimmers and even older Mercedes.
See one of them and 9:1 its one of the above or a "has-been".

Too_Many_Tools April 19th 09 12:58 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots cankill you
 
On Apr 18, 1:52*am, Don Foreman wrote:
On Fri, 17 Apr 2009 16:26:54 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools



wrote:
On Apr 17, 5:42*pm, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
Title says it all. *Actually tons of metal involved. *But too little for
safety.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123993371229527975.html


This is a shot in the coming fight about CAFE.


The Wall Street Journal, 17 April 2009.


Joe Gwinn


Interesting and I have been following this.


Whether the American public understands it or not, smaller more
efficient vehicles are coming and are long over due.


If anyone thought gas prices will stay low, they need to do some
research.


Emissions are another big issue that was buried the last eight years
that is now being dealt with.


And from the looks of it, American companies will not be the producers
of these vehicles.


TMT


Perhaps American companies will produce the armament for these
vehicle? *


Good suggestion...that we know how to do well.

TMT

Too_Many_Tools April 19th 09 01:01 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots cankill you
 
On Apr 17, 6:54*pm, "Tim" #__#@__.- wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message

...
On Apr 17, 5:42 pm, Joseph Gwinn wrote:

Title says it all. Actually tons of metal involved. But too little for
safety.


http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123993371229527975.html


This is a shot in the coming fight about CAFE.


The Wall Street Journal, 17 April 2009.


Joe Gwinn


Interesting and I have been following this.

Whether the American public understands it or not, smaller more
efficient vehicles are coming and are long over due.

If anyone thought gas prices will stay low, they need to do some
research.

Emissions are another big issue that was buried the last eight years
that is now being dealt with.

And from the looks of it, American companies will not be the producers
of these vehicles.

TMT

---------------------------------------------------------------------------\\\

Indeed, it's high time people pay for their liability coverage by the pound.

If people want to drive an IRON chariot, let them pay the price in insurance
and the additonal damage they cause in an accident.


Hmm...that is an interesting thought.

Pay by the pound...you want a big heavy vehicle then pay the user fee
assigned to it.

What does everyone else think of this?

FYI...I drive older American heavy iron so it would cause my costs to
go up.

TMT

Jim Wilkins April 19th 09 01:21 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots cankill you
 
On Apr 18, 3:28*pm, Leon Fisk wrote:

The new, redesigned VW Beetle is suppose to be easy for
oversized people to get in/out of (shrug).

Leon Fisk


The original one had a lot of headroom too. I used to carry a table
saw to the job upside down in the back seat. It was a convertible
which made loading the saw easy, but the top would close over the
legs.

I think it's still running near Concord NH. 1965 1200, dark green, top
from a later model, plywood fold-flat rear seat, hatch added to access
the starter and engine mounting bolts.

Gerald Miller April 19th 09 02:18 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots can kill you
 
On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 00:42:54 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:


"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...



What about people who physically can't fit into those tiny 'death on
wheels' toys because of longer than average legs, or being disabled?
Every small vehicle I looked at the last time was impossible to drive
because my knees hit the dash, or I couldn't get in or out without help,
because of so little room under the steering wheel that I couldn't use a
cane to help me in or out of the driver's seat?


--


there certainly are "smaller" cars that are easy to get in and out of - they
just don't have them here in the good old USA because by god, if were were
meant to ride in small cars he wouldn't have given us high fat fast food.

ok, seriously, there are some - for example, the Fiat Doblo, but they aren't
imported.

I am quite happy with my current econobox, but then, I am a somewhat
large/normal (5'8" - 225lb.) non crippled 70 yr. old male. I haven't
tried the new version yet but my '05 Toy Echo suits me fine. It also
gives me 48 miles per (imperial) gallon on a 400 mile trip.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Anthony April 19th 09 04:16 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots can kill you
 
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in
:



What about people who physically can't fit into those tiny 'death
on
wheels' toys because of longer than average legs, or being disabled?
Every small vehicle I looked at the last time was impossible to drive
because my knees hit the dash, or I couldn't get in or out without
help, because of so little room under the steering wheel that I
couldn't use a cane to help me in or out of the driver's seat?



Hrm.... I drive a 95 Dodge Neon, I'm 6'-5", 240 with bad knees...and don't
have any issue with it being too small. It gets 33 mpg in mixed
city/highway driving even though it's an automatic and it's got 200,000
miles on it.


--
Anthony

You can't 'idiot proof' anything....every time you try, they just make
better idiots.

Remove sp to reply via email

Michael A. Terrell April 20th 09 08:54 PM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots can killyou
 

Gerald Miller wrote:

I am quite happy with my current econobox, but then, I am a somewhat
large/normal (5'8" - 225lb.) non crippled 70 yr. old male. I haven't
tried the new version yet but my '05 Toy Echo suits me fine. It also
gives me 48 miles per (imperial) gallon on a 400 mile trip.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada



Good for you. Who is the 'crippled 70 yr. old male'?

I drive a Dodge Dakota because I usually have a lot to haul. I do
most of my shopping twice a month, and put off errands until i can make
a loop around town for three or more. Sometimes the truck isn't even
started for two weeks, or more. If I drove an econobox, I would have to
tow a trailer most days or make a lot more trips. Two trips at 48 mpg
come close to a single trip in the pickup truck.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Michael A. Terrell April 20th 09 09:00 PM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots can killyou
 

Anthony wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in
:


What about people who physically can't fit into those tiny 'death
on
wheels' toys because of longer than average legs, or being disabled?
Every small vehicle I looked at the last time was impossible to drive
because my knees hit the dash, or I couldn't get in or out without
help, because of so little room under the steering wheel that I
couldn't use a cane to help me in or out of the driver's seat?



Hrm.... I drive a 95 Dodge Neon, I'm 6'-5", 240 with bad knees...and don't
have any issue with it being too small. It gets 33 mpg in mixed
city/highway driving even though it's an automatic and it's got 200,000
miles on it.



My problem is swelling in my legs, and the fact that I sometimes have
to lift them into the truck with both hands. That can't be done in a
lot of vehicles. In fact, I miss my '73 Chevy stepvan. It was an
electronics shop on wheels to do commercial sound & industrial
electronics repairs. It had a 292 CID six cylinder and five speed
manual transmission. I could haul over two tons and still get 20 MPG.


I'm happy that you like your neon, but I have driven mostly trucks
since '72. I don't do any joy riding, and have driven less than 7,000
in the last 18 months. A good chunk of that was running errands for my
dad & step mom after each was in the hospital three times each.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Gerald Miller April 21st 09 03:00 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots can kill you
 
On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:54:10 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:



Good for you. Who is the 'crippled 70 yr. old male'?

Not many men my age enjoy my degree of mobility.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Michael A. Terrell April 21st 09 03:26 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots cankill you
 

Gerald Miller wrote:

On Mon, 20 Apr 2009 14:54:10 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Good for you. Who is the 'crippled 70 yr. old male'?

Not many men my age enjoy my degree of mobility.



Enjoy it while you can. I am starting to have trouble getting out of
a chair and I'm still in my '50s.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Michael A. Terrell April 25th 09 04:22 PM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots can killyou
 

Bill Noble wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...



What about people who physically can't fit into those tiny 'death on
wheels' toys because of longer than average legs, or being disabled?
Every small vehicle I looked at the last time was impossible to drive
because my knees hit the dash, or I couldn't get in or out without help,
because of so little room under the steering wheel that I couldn't use a
cane to help me in or out of the driver's seat?


--


there certainly are "smaller" cars that are easy to get in and out of - they
just don't have them here in the good old USA because by god, if were were
meant to ride in small cars he wouldn't have given us high fat fast food.



Who eats fast food? I am diabetic, have high blood pressure, and eat
the meals approved by my dietitian. I guess you speak from personal
experience of eating too much fast food, and are grossly obese?



ok, seriously, there are some - for example, the Fiat Doblo, but they aren't
imported.



Does it meet ALL US safety standards? If not, it might as well not
exist, as far as the US market is concerned.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Michael A. Terrell April 25th 09 04:24 PM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots can killyou
 

Leon Fisk wrote:

On Sat, 18 Apr 2009 00:42:54 -0700, "Bill Noble"
wrote:

snip
there certainly are "smaller" cars that are easy to get in and out of - they
just don't have them here in the good old USA because by god, if were were
meant to ride in small cars he wouldn't have given us high fat fast food.

ok, seriously, there are some - for example, the Fiat Doblo, but they aren't
imported.


The new, redesigned VW Beetle is suppose to be easy for
oversized people to get in/out of (shrug).



Who can afford 'new' on a VA pension? I have to hope the 12 year old
Dodge Dakota runs six more years, till the house is paid off. :(


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Leon Fisk April 25th 09 08:33 PM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots can kill you
 
On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 10:24:40 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

snip
The new, redesigned VW Beetle is suppose to be easy for
oversized people to get in/out of (shrug).



Who can afford 'new' on a VA pension? I have to hope the 12 year old
Dodge Dakota runs six more years, till the house is paid off. :(


New was only used to differentiate between the old style bug
and the newest version. The new version has been around
since 1997. I guess they call it the "Volkswagen New Beetle"
(shrug).

I sure wouldn't buy a brand new anything nowadays. What I
don't want in a vehicle; no airbags, anti-skid/traction
crap, air conditioning, tire air pressure monitor/alarm,
Onstar... I'm sure there must be a few more things I can't
think of right now too. Most likely if I have to replace my
old 1982 truck someday it will be with something else old.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Michael A. Terrell April 25th 09 09:08 PM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots cankill you
 

Leon Fisk wrote:

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 10:24:40 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

snip
The new, redesigned VW Beetle is suppose to be easy for
oversized people to get in/out of (shrug).



Who can afford 'new' on a VA pension? I have to hope the 12 year old
Dodge Dakota runs six more years, till the house is paid off. :(


New was only used to differentiate between the old style bug
and the newest version. The new version has been around
since 1997. I guess they call it the "Volkswagen New Beetle"
(shrug).

I sure wouldn't buy a brand new anything nowadays. What I
don't want in a vehicle; no airbags, anti-skid/traction
crap, air conditioning, tire air pressure monitor/alarm,
Onstar... I'm sure there must be a few more things I can't
think of right now too. Most likely if I have to replace my
old 1982 truck someday it will be with something else old.



I miss my '73 Chevy stepvan with a Union City body. It gve me 20
MPG, no matter how much I hauled in it. It had non commercial tags, and
one trip had over 8,000 of cargo.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Buerste April 26th 09 09:43 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots can kill you
 

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...
snip
I miss my '73 Chevy stepvan with a Union City body. It gve me 20
MPG, no matter how much I hauled in it. It had non commercial tags, and
one trip had over 8,000 of cargo.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!


I bet that was a white-knuckle trip!



Too_Many_Tools April 26th 09 04:49 PM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots cankill you
 
On Apr 20, 1:54*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Gerald Miller wrote:

I am quite happy with my current econobox, but then, I am a somewhat
large/normal (5'8" - 225lb.) non crippled 70 yr. old male. I haven't
tried the new version yet but my '05 Toy Echo suits me fine. It also
gives me 48 miles per (imperial) gallon on a 400 mile trip.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada


* *Good for you. *Who is the 'crippled 70 yr. old male'?

* *I drive a Dodge Dakota *because I usually have a lot to haul. *I do
most of my shopping twice a month, and put off errands until i can make
a loop around town for three or more. *Sometimes the truck isn't even
started for two weeks, or more. *If I drove an econobox, I would have to
tow a trailer most days or make a lot more trips. *Two trips at 48 mpg
come close to a single trip in the pickup truck.

--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!


That is a good approach to minimizing cost to one's pocketbook and
impact on environment.

TMT

CalifBill April 27th 09 06:57 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots can kill you
 

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

Leon Fisk wrote:

On Sat, 25 Apr 2009 10:24:40 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

snip
The new, redesigned VW Beetle is suppose to be easy for
oversized people to get in/out of (shrug).


Who can afford 'new' on a VA pension? I have to hope the 12 year old
Dodge Dakota runs six more years, till the house is paid off. :(


New was only used to differentiate between the old style bug
and the newest version. The new version has been around
since 1997. I guess they call it the "Volkswagen New Beetle"
(shrug).

I sure wouldn't buy a brand new anything nowadays. What I
don't want in a vehicle; no airbags, anti-skid/traction
crap, air conditioning, tire air pressure monitor/alarm,
Onstar... I'm sure there must be a few more things I can't
think of right now too. Most likely if I have to replace my
old 1982 truck someday it will be with something else old.



I miss my '73 Chevy stepvan with a Union City body. It gve me 20
MPG, no matter how much I hauled in it. It had non commercial tags, and
one trip had over 8,000 of cargo.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!


I just bought wife a new Toyota Venza. Drove it 350 miles down I-5 to L.A.
Ran 85-90 comfortably all the way, listening to Satellite radio, and got
22.2 mpg for the trip. Helping the economy. But the car I replaced a 1996
S-10 Blazer with 144k miles means I buy and hold. A long time hold. Lots
to be said for newer cars. Rarely break, quiet, and comfortable. Someimes
you need to spend some money.



Michael A. Terrell April 28th 09 06:01 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots cankill you
 

Buerste wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...
snip
I miss my '73 Chevy stepvan with a Union City body. It gve me 20
MPG, no matter how much I hauled in it. It had non commercial tags, and
one trip had over 8,000 of cargo.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!


I bet that was a white-knuckle trip!



Only when the Georgia Highway Patrol chased me just south of Atlanta,
long enough to see I had non commercial tags. Then he slammed on the
brakes, slid into the median, and was pounding the dash with both fists.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Michael A. Terrell April 28th 09 06:05 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots cankill you
 

CalifBill wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

I miss my '73 Chevy stepvan with a Union City body. It gve me 20
MPG, no matter how much I hauled in it. It had non commercial tags, and
one trip had over 8,000 of cargo.


I just bought wife a new Toyota Venza. Drove it 350 miles down I-5 to L.A.
Ran 85-90 comfortably all the way, listening to Satellite radio, and got
22.2 mpg for the trip. Helping the economy. But the car I replaced a 1996
S-10 Blazer with 144k miles means I buy and hold. A long time hold. Lots
to be said for newer cars. Rarely break, quiet, and comfortable. Sometimes
you need to spend some money.



You can't do that when you don't have it to spend. My VA disability
states that due to my health, I will never be able to work again, and I
miss working. I had my last two vehicles given to me. In fact, I've
only spent S1,000 to buy vehicles in the last 25 years.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Gunner Asch[_4_] April 28th 09 07:02 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots can kill you
 
On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 00:05:36 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


CalifBill wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

I miss my '73 Chevy stepvan with a Union City body. It gve me 20
MPG, no matter how much I hauled in it. It had non commercial tags, and
one trip had over 8,000 of cargo.


I just bought wife a new Toyota Venza. Drove it 350 miles down I-5 to L.A.
Ran 85-90 comfortably all the way, listening to Satellite radio, and got
22.2 mpg for the trip. Helping the economy. But the car I replaced a 1996
S-10 Blazer with 144k miles means I buy and hold. A long time hold. Lots
to be said for newer cars. Rarely break, quiet, and comfortable. Sometimes
you need to spend some money.



You can't do that when you don't have it to spend. My VA disability
states that due to my health, I will never be able to work again, and I
miss working. I had my last two vehicles given to me. In fact, I've
only spent S1,000 to buy vehicles in the last 25 years.


I just gave away an '84 C10 Chevy van (today) to a very nice family who
are barely making it. Its not been run or even started for at least 10
yrs..having the front seal of the auto tranny start to pour out fluid.

We cleaned out the computer equipment its been storing for those 10 yrs,
poured in some gas, a bit down the carby, stuck in a good used batttery
and fired it up. I put on a tire, filled up the other 3 and he drove it
home.

It only had 80k on a factory new motor with 150k actual miles on the
vehicle. I handed him the new front tranny seal, put a jack and jack
stands in the van, and added two sets of manuals. Told him Id help him
next weekend if he needed help dropping the tranny, replacing the seal
and putting the tranny back in place.

Nice family, trying hard to make a go of it.

He helped me replace the alternator in the ex's Saturn later this
afternoon. Figured that he owed me something. I told him he could
help..but if he was under some feeling of obligation...he should go work
on his new van and dont pester me G

I could have fixed it up and sold it..maybe got $1200 out of
it...shrug...but he busts his ass taking care of his family and that
means he gets first dibs.

Shrug

Gunner

"Somewhere a True Believer is training to kill you. He is training with
minimum food or water,in austere conditions, day and night. The only thing
clean on him is his weapon. He doesn't worry about what workout to do---
his rucksack weighs what it weighs, and he runs until the enemy stops chasing him.
The True Believer doesn't care 'how hard it is'; he knows he either wins or he dies.
He doesn't go home at 1700; he is home. He knows only the 'Cause.' Now, who wants to quit?"

NCOIC of the Special Forces Assessment and Selection Course in a welcome speech to new SF candidates

cavelamb April 28th 09 07:55 AM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots cankill you
 
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
CalifBill wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
I miss my '73 Chevy stepvan with a Union City body. It gve me 20
MPG, no matter how much I hauled in it. It had non commercial tags, and
one trip had over 8,000 of cargo.

I just bought wife a new Toyota Venza. Drove it 350 miles down I-5 to L.A.
Ran 85-90 comfortably all the way, listening to Satellite radio, and got
22.2 mpg for the trip. Helping the economy. But the car I replaced a 1996
S-10 Blazer with 144k miles means I buy and hold. A long time hold. Lots
to be said for newer cars. Rarely break, quiet, and comfortable. Sometimes
you need to spend some money.



You can't do that when you don't have it to spend. My VA disability
states that due to my health, I will never be able to work again, and I
miss working. I had my last two vehicles given to me. In fact, I've
only spent S1,000 to buy vehicles in the last 25 years.



If you check carefully you may find that you are allowed a certain (small)
earned income without endangering your VA status.

It's probably something like $4000.

Richard

Michael A. Terrell April 28th 09 05:12 PM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots cankillyou
 

cavelamb wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
CalifBill wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
I miss my '73 Chevy stepvan with a Union City body. It gve me 20
MPG, no matter how much I hauled in it. It had non commercial tags, and
one trip had over 8,000 of cargo.
I just bought wife a new Toyota Venza. Drove it 350 miles down I-5 to L.A.
Ran 85-90 comfortably all the way, listening to Satellite radio, and got
22.2 mpg for the trip. Helping the economy. But the car I replaced a 1996
S-10 Blazer with 144k miles means I buy and hold. A long time hold. Lots
to be said for newer cars. Rarely break, quiet, and comfortable. Sometimes
you need to spend some money.



You can't do that when you don't have it to spend. My VA disability
states that due to my health, I will never be able to work again, and I
miss working. I had my last two vehicles given to me. In fact, I've
only spent S1,000 to buy vehicles in the last 25 years.



If you check carefully you may find that you are allowed a certain (small)
earned income without endangering your VA status.

It's probably something like $4000.



I have asked repeatedly for the last three years, and still haven't
got an answer. Most give me a blank stare, or just shrug, then ignore
me. One hinted that if I earned even $1, I would lose the zero co-pay on
all the medication, and some of the other benefits. To make up for that
amount could cost me the pension, as well. No one is willing to give a
straight answer, and there is nothing on the VA website, or in the
benefits handbook that I can find.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

Michael A. Terrell April 28th 09 05:18 PM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots cankill you
 

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2009 00:05:36 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


CalifBill wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

I miss my '73 Chevy stepvan with a Union City body. It gve me 20
MPG, no matter how much I hauled in it. It had non commercial tags, and
one trip had over 8,000 of cargo.

I just bought wife a new Toyota Venza. Drove it 350 miles down I-5 to L.A.
Ran 85-90 comfortably all the way, listening to Satellite radio, and got
22.2 mpg for the trip. Helping the economy. But the car I replaced a 1996
S-10 Blazer with 144k miles means I buy and hold. A long time hold. Lots
to be said for newer cars. Rarely break, quiet, and comfortable. Sometimes
you need to spend some money.



You can't do that when you don't have it to spend. My VA disability
states that due to my health, I will never be able to work again, and I
miss working. I had my last two vehicles given to me. In fact, I've
only spent S1,000 to buy vehicles in the last 25 years.


I just gave away an '84 C10 Chevy van (today) to a very nice family who
are barely making it. Its not been run or even started for at least 10
yrs..having the front seal of the auto tranny start to pour out fluid.

We cleaned out the computer equipment its been storing for those 10 yrs,
poured in some gas, a bit down the carby, stuck in a good used batttery
and fired it up. I put on a tire, filled up the other 3 and he drove it
home.

It only had 80k on a factory new motor with 150k actual miles on the
vehicle. I handed him the new front tranny seal, put a jack and jack
stands in the van, and added two sets of manuals. Told him Id help him
next weekend if he needed help dropping the tranny, replacing the seal
and putting the tranny back in place.

Nice family, trying hard to make a go of it.

He helped me replace the alternator in the ex's Saturn later this
afternoon. Figured that he owed me something. I told him he could
help..but if he was under some feeling of obligation...he should go work
on his new van and dont pester me G

I could have fixed it up and sold it..maybe got $1200 out of
it...shrug...but he busts his ass taking care of his family and that
means he gets first dibs.



Good for you. I have crawled out of bed with pneumonia to do
emergency repairs to a neighbor's house. I always helped where I could,
back when I could.

BTW, I an into a guy at a local flea market with a case of new socket
370 motherboards for $15 each. They were still in the retail boxes with
the CDROM, manual and cables, and had three EISA slots and one PCI slot.
Too bad it wasn't six months ago, when you could have made some money on
them. :(

I considered buying the case of ten, but just couldn't justify it.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

cavelamb April 28th 09 06:20 PM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots cankillyou
 
Michael A. Terrell wrote:

You can't do that when you don't have it to spend. My VA disability
states that due to my health, I will never be able to work again, and I
miss working. I had my last two vehicles given to me. In fact, I've
only spent S1,000 to buy vehicles in the last 25 years.


If you check carefully you may find that you are allowed a certain (small)
earned income without endangering your VA status.

It's probably something like $4000.



I have asked repeatedly for the last three years, and still haven't
got an answer. Most give me a blank stare, or just shrug, then ignore
me. One hinted that if I earned even $1, I would lose the zero co-pay on
all the medication, and some of the other benefits. To make up for that
amount could cost me the pension, as well. No one is willing to give a
straight answer, and there is nothing on the VA website, or in the
benefits handbook that I can find.



That's not true - but about normal.

I suspect that's because most of them are government class morons who don't
know and don't care.

Do you have a counselor you can trust?
It would be worth the effort to find one.


Richard

Michael A. Terrell April 28th 09 09:07 PM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealotscankillyou
 

cavelamb wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

You can't do that when you don't have it to spend. My VA disability
states that due to my health, I will never be able to work again, and I
miss working. I had my last two vehicles given to me. In fact, I've
only spent S1,000 to buy vehicles in the last 25 years.


If you check carefully you may find that you are allowed a certain (small)
earned income without endangering your VA status.

It's probably something like $4000.



I have asked repeatedly for the last three years, and still haven't
got an answer. Most give me a blank stare, or just shrug, then ignore
me. One hinted that if I earned even $1, I would lose the zero co-pay on
all the medication, and some of the other benefits. To make up for that
amount could cost me the pension, as well. No one is willing to give a
straight answer, and there is nothing on the VA website, or in the
benefits handbook that I can find.



That's not true - but about normal.

I suspect that's because most of them are government class morons who don't
know and don't care.

Do you have a counselor you can trust?
It would be worth the effort to find one.

Richard



I had a VA caseworker try to get a valid answer for a year, before he
gave up. I could make some cash by doing some IT consulting part time.
I have turned down the work, because I don't know where I stand under
the contradicting laws. In one letter the VA tells me I will never be
able to work again. In the next, they tell me that I am not
unemployable. Which is right?


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!

CalifBill April 28th 09 11:16 PM

OT -- Small Cars Are Dangerous Cars - Fuel economy zealots can kill you
 

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...

Buerste wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
m...
snip
I miss my '73 Chevy stepvan with a Union City body. It gve me 20
MPG, no matter how much I hauled in it. It had non commercial tags,
and
one trip had over 8,000 of cargo.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!


I bet that was a white-knuckle trip!



Only when the Georgia Highway Patrol chased me just south of Atlanta,
long enough to see I had non commercial tags. Then he slammed on the
brakes, slid into the median, and was pounding the dash with both fists.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense!


Sort of like my S10 4x4 Pickup. Got a load of pavers for the back yard.
Said a pallet load was 1500#. Pick up the load one night from HD, drive
home, luckily the wife is with me as the truck barely steers. Front wheels
probably would not of touched if wife was not in cab. The pallet they
referred to was much smaller. We figured there were 4500# of pavers in the
truck, Setting on the axle stops.




All times are GMT +1. The time now is 08:32 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004 - 2014 DIYbanter