GM Failure
On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 12:52:58 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote: Question: How does some entity which is $3.5 BILLION in debt borrow an extra $8.3B for a merger?!? --snippage-- beneficiaries, and total assets of over $800 million. The Tribune Company Master Retirement Savings Trust had over $2.2 billion in assets for the 2006 plan year listed on Schedule H of Form 5500. A really interesting part of this litigation to watch will be the ultimate attorneys fees awarded when this litigation ends. ------------- Information now surfacing indicates Zell got control of the Tribune company and its pension funds/assets worth 8.2 billion for an investment of 300 million. Debt is now 13 billion and assets down to 7.6 billion, mostly in the form of non-liquid assets. Note that the Tribune [the company] was still profitable, just not profitable *ENOUGH*. Also note that the pension funds, "invested" in the sham ESOP were not guaranteed by the PBGC and are just gone [apparently into Zell's pockets]. We are looking at the "evaporation" of about 11 billion dollars [equity + new debt] from a company under Zell's control in less than a year. How gross does it have to get before its criminal? ============== How Zell Killed Tribune Stephane Fitch, 12.08.08, 07:42 PM EST The ''grave dancer'' of real estate becomes the ''grave digger'' of the newspaper industry. When Samuel Zell outbid two other billionaires, Eli Broad and Ronald Burkle, for Tribune Co. last year, he was hailed as a dealmaker. For just thinnest possible sliver of equity--some $300 million--he landed an $8.2 billion empire featuring the Chicago Cubs, a host of television stations and two of the most important newspapers in America: The Chicago Tribune and Los Angeles Times. Article Controls "I am delighted to be associated with Tribune Company, which I believe is a world-class publishing and broadcasting enterprise," Zell said back in April 2007, announcing the deal. "As a long-term investor, I look forward to partnering with the management and employees as we build on the great heritage of Tribune Company." Monday was a different story. Tribune declared bankruptcy in Delaware. Against assets allegedly worth $7.6 billion, Tribune Co. owes $13 billion. The "grave dancer" of real estate development was now the "grave digger" of the newspaper world. Bad economy or not, if it wasn't for Zell and the enormous debt load he packed on the company, Tribune Co. would be trundling along profitably. It hauled in operating cash flow--which is net before taxes, depreciation, amortization and interest--of $90 million on $1 billion in revenue in the third quarter. In the six quarters before that, Tribune Co. was hauling in $200 million to $270 million per quarter in cash flow. snip -------------- for complete article click on http://www.forbes.com/home/2008/12/0..._1208zell.html Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end? Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625). |
GM Failure
"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message ... On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 12:52:58 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: Question: How does some entity which is $3.5 BILLION in debt borrow an extra $8.3B for a merger?!? --snippage-- beneficiaries, and total assets of over $800 million. The Tribune Company Master Retirement Savings Trust had over $2.2 billion in assets for the 2006 plan year listed on Schedule H of Form 5500. A really interesting part of this litigation to watch will be the ultimate attorneys fees awarded when this litigation ends. ------------- Information now surfacing indicates Zell got control of the Tribune company and its pension funds/assets worth 8.2 billion for an investment of 300 million. Debt is now 13 billion and assets down to 7.6 billion, mostly in the form of non-liquid assets. Note that the Tribune [the company] was still profitable, just not profitable *ENOUGH*. Also note that the pension funds, "invested" in the sham ESOP were not guaranteed by the PBGC and are just gone [apparently into Zell's pockets]. We are looking at the "evaporation" of about 11 billion dollars [equity + new debt] from a company under Zell's control in less than a year. How gross does it have to get before its criminal? Quit top posting stuff George. I'll answer your "question", but you already know. As gross as stupidity may become, the rules and the law allowed all of this. As a matter of fact, this behavior was encouraged and abetted. Zell didn't kill anything. JC |
GM Failure
Question: How does some entity which is $3.5 BILLION in debt borrow an extra $8.3B for a merger?!? --snippage-- beneficiaries, and total assets of over $800 million. The Tribune Company Master Retirement Savings Trust had over $2.2 billion in assets for the 2006 plan year listed on Schedule H of Form 5500. A really interesting part of this litigation to watch will be the ultimate attorneys fees awarded when this litigation ends. ------------- Information now surfacing indicates Zell got control of the Tribune company and its pension funds/assets worth 8.2 billion for an investment of 300 million. Debt is now 13 billion and assets down to 7.6 billion, mostly in the form of non-liquid assets. Note that the Tribune [the company] was still profitable, just not profitable *ENOUGH*. Also note that the pension funds, "invested" in the sham ESOP were not guaranteed by the PBGC and are just gone [apparently into Zell's pockets]. We are looking at the "evaporation" of about 11 billion dollars [equity + new debt] from a company under Zell's control in less than a year. How gross does it have to get before its criminal? Quit top posting stuff George. I'll answer your "question", but you already know. As gross as stupidity may become, the rules and the law allowed all of this. As a matter of fact, this behavior was encouraged and abetted. Zell didn't kill anything. How about his net worth? I don't know about these people that want to be media tycoons. Rupert Murdoch is the same way. I guess these guys haven't seen the handwriting on the wall yet when it comes to newspapers. They're dead or at least on the way out. The internet is killing newspapers. It's an obsolete form of media and it has no future. Why people are still trying to own a newspaper chain is beyond me. I think they are fools and will only bankrupt themselves. It's TV, computers, and handheld devices that are the future. Paper and ink; that's so 19th century. Hawke |
GM Failure
"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message ... On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 12:52:58 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: Question: How does some entity which is $3.5 BILLION in debt borrow an extra $8.3B for a merger?!? --snippage-- beneficiaries, and total assets of over $800 million. The Tribune Company Master Retirement Savings Trust had over $2.2 billion in assets for the 2006 plan year listed on Schedule H of Form 5500. A really interesting part of this litigation to watch will be the ultimate attorneys fees awarded when this litigation ends. ------------- Information now surfacing indicates Zell got control of the Tribune company and its pension funds/assets worth 8.2 billion for an investment of 300 million. Debt is now 13 billion and assets down to 7.6 billion, mostly in the form of non-liquid assets. Note that the Tribune [the company] was still profitable, just not profitable *ENOUGH*. Also note that the pension funds, "invested" in the sham ESOP were not guaranteed by the PBGC and are just gone [apparently into Zell's pockets]. We are looking at the "evaporation" of about 11 billion dollars [equity + new debt] from a company under Zell's control in less than a year. How gross does it have to get before its criminal? Wait 'till you hear the news today. The governor of Illinois is in FBI custody for corruption as of this morning, and part of it, apparently, involved deals made with the Tribune Company. The wicket is getting very sticky. -- Ed Huntress |
GM Failure
On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 20:03:07 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote: Information now surfacing indicates Zell got control of the Tribune company and its pension funds/assets worth 8.2 billion for an investment of 300 million. ----------- I didn't think it was possible, but its getting even stinkier. Crook county earned it's name. ========== Illinois Governor Is Arrested on Corruption Charges (Update2) By Thom Weidlich Dec. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich was arrested with his chief of staff on charges they tried to sell U.S. President-Elect Barack Obama’s vacated Senate seat, according to Chicago U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald. Blagojevich, 51, a Democrat, and John Harris, 46, the chief of staff, are scheduled to appear later today in federal court in Chicago, according to a statement by Fitzgerald. ==They and others also threatened to withhold state assistance to Tribune Co. in connection with the company’s sale of the Wrigley’s Field ballpark and to have fired members of the Chicago Tribune editorial board who were critical of the governor, according to the statement.== Court-appointed wiretaps intercepted Blagojevich last month conspiring to sell the Senate seat, according to Fitzgerald. At various times, he sought in return a cabinet post, an ambassadorship or a seat on a corporate board for his wife, Fitzgerald said. Tribune Co. filed for bankruptcy protection yesterday. -------------- for complete article click on http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...OXc&refer=home Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end? Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625). |
GM Failure
On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 10:28:09 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote: snip We are looking at the "evaporation" of about 11 billion dollars [equity + new debt] from a company under Zell's control in less than a year. How gross does it have to get before its criminal? Wait 'till you hear the news today. The governor of Illinois is in FBI custody for corruption as of this morning, and part of it, apparently, involved deals made with the Tribune Company. The wicket is getting very sticky. snip --------------- Indeed, and I fervently hope this is an isolated and exceptional case rather than the new standard. Unfortunately, a presumption of rampant and extensive political corruption and collusion with the "financial interests" resulting in "short circuiting" of the regulatory and law enforcement process fits the known facts all too well. This leads directly into the question "are the current bail-out efforts the result of an earnest desire on the part of the politicians to help the US economy recover, are they the result of bribes/kickbacks, or does the financial industry now have adequate 'black-mail' material to force rescue funding?" Re exchange with jcarroll on this point: While stupidity and incompetence in corporate governance may not [yet] be criminal offences, conspiracy/bribery to evade/avoid regulations and subvert/obstruct law enforcement most definitely are. Given the huge sums involved, have the wire and other transfers been checked for compliance with the money laundering and other statutes, and if not, why not? How much of this money has been sent "off-shore?" Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end? Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625). |
GM Failure
"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message ... On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 10:28:09 -0500, "Ed Huntress" wrote: snip We are looking at the "evaporation" of about 11 billion dollars [equity + new debt] from a company under Zell's control in less than a year. How gross does it have to get before its criminal? Wait 'till you hear the news today. The governor of Illinois is in FBI custody for corruption as of this morning, and part of it, apparently, involved deals made with the Tribune Company. The wicket is getting very sticky. snip --------------- Indeed, and I fervently hope this is an isolated and exceptional case rather than the new standard. Blagojevich's predecessor is in jail right now. LOL Unfortunately, a presumption of rampant and extensive political corruption and collusion with the "financial interests" resulting in "short circuiting" of the regulatory and law enforcement process fits the known facts all too well. This leads directly into the question "are the current bail-out efforts the result of an earnest desire on the part of the politicians to help the US economy recover, are they the result of bribes/kickbacks, or does the financial industry now have adequate 'black-mail' material to force rescue funding?" Re exchange with jcarroll on this point: While stupidity and incompetence in corporate governance may not [yet] be criminal offences, conspiracy/bribery to evade/avoid regulations and subvert/obstruct law enforcement most definitely are. Sure. Seen any of that? GM is good at exactly two things. The first is advertising. The second is the legal version of what you seek to punish - lobbying. J |
GM Failure
F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 10:28:09 -0500, "Ed Huntress" wrote: snip We are looking at the "evaporation" of about 11 billion dollars [equity + new debt] from a company under Zell's control in less than a year. How gross does it have to get before its criminal? Wait 'till you hear the news today. The governor of Illinois is in FBI custody for corruption as of this morning, and part of it, apparently, involved deals made with the Tribune Company. The wicket is getting very sticky. snip --------------- Indeed, and I fervently hope this is an isolated and exceptional case rather than the new standard. Unfortunately, a presumption of rampant and extensive political corruption and collusion with the "financial interests" resulting in "short circuiting" of the regulatory and law enforcement process fits the known facts all too well. This leads directly into the question "are the current bail-out efforts the result of an earnest desire on the part of the politicians to help the US economy recover, are they the result of bribes/kickbacks, or does the financial industry now have adequate 'black-mail' material to force rescue funding?" As you said, fits the facts... Re exchange with jcarroll on this point: While stupidity and incompetence in corporate governance may not [yet] be criminal offences, conspiracy/bribery to evade/avoid regulations and subvert/obstruct law enforcement most definitely are. Given the huge sums involved, have the wire and other transfers been checked for compliance with the money laundering and other statutes, and if not, why not? How much of this money has been sent "off-shore?" John is pretty sharp on these matters. If he is concerned, I suspect we all should be. Take note all, that this is NOT a situation we have ever been through before. Like I mentioned to Ed last week, old models don't apply to new situations. Richard |
GM Failure
On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 09:26:37 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote: Re exchange with jcarroll on this point: While stupidity and incompetence in corporate governance may not [yet] be criminal offences, conspiracy/bribery to evade/avoid regulations and subvert/obstruct law enforcement most definitely are. Sure. Seen any of that? GM is good at exactly two things. The first is advertising. The second is the legal version of what you seek to punish - lobbying. ----------- Key word is "legal." Everyone has a right to contact their Senators and Representatives, and to present the most compelling case they can about (existing & proposed) legislation/regulation. At the other extreme, no one has the right to show up with an actual or figurative attache case full of 100$ bills, nor does the congressman have the right to accept. The dividing line is very dim and blurred. For example, is a standing weekly appointment to discuss current events of mutual interest over a meal at a very expensive restaurant, paid for by the contactor, acceptable? In the case of GM, it can be plausibly argued that the constituents' interests are indeed served by such meetings, particularly where GM has a significant presence in the district/state. SecDef "Engine Charlie" Wilson [under Eisenhower when GM had 55% market share] was correct when he observed "What's good for General Motors is good for the country, and what's good for the country is good for General Motors," even though this cost him his job. Even with "only" 20% of the domestic US automotive market, GM remains a major factor/player. Even the expensive restaurant can be "justified" as providing "privacy," as compared to the House or Senate dining rooms. Problems arise when contentious issues with broad societal impact, for example emissions regulations, fuel economy, crash-worthyness standards, work place safety, fiscal/financial controls, etc. are discussed (and effectively decided) without the opportunity for comparable input from the other interested/affected/impacted groups. It is becoming increasingly evident that far too much "lobbying" is now on the wrong side of an admittedly dim and blurred line. More than likely this was not an abrupt change, but a gradual shift over the last 20 or so years. FWIW -- it does not appear that GM was an especially egregious, albeit highly effective, lobbying practitioner nor did they "push the envelope," but the financial services and energy/mining industries "let 'er rip." Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end? Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625). |
GM Failure
F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 09:26:37 -0800, "John R. Carroll" wrote: Re exchange with jcarroll on this point: While stupidity and incompetence in corporate governance may not [yet] be criminal offences, conspiracy/bribery to evade/avoid regulations and subvert/obstruct law enforcement most definitely are. Sure. Seen any of that? GM is good at exactly two things. The first is advertising. The second is the legal version of what you seek to punish - lobbying. ----------- Key word is "legal." Sure it is. Legislators and lobbyists know the law right down to the finest detail for the most part. They are obligated to follow the letter of the law, not its spirit. Problems arise when contentious issues with broad societal impact, for example emissions regulations, fuel economy, crash-worthyness standards, work place safety, fiscal/financial controls, etc. are discussed (and effectively decided) without the opportunity for comparable input from the other interested/affected/impacted groups. An informed public that would trouble itself to excercise its right to vote is the only voice required. The ignorant and lazy forfeit their right at their own peril. It is becoming increasingly evident that far too much "lobbying" is now on the wrong side of an admittedly dim and blurred line. More than likely this was not an abrupt change, but a gradual shift over the last 20 or so years. Things haven't really changed at all. The only difference is in the mechanics, not the results. FWIW -- it does not appear that GM was an especially egregious, albeit highly effective, lobbying practitioner nor did they "push the envelope," but the financial services and energy/mining industries "let 'er rip." Now there is where you will find criminals. -- Dick |
GM Failure
Not GM but Chrysler info.
Just ran across this article on how Chrysler was planning to develop and produce small fuel efficient cars for the US to "save the domestic auto industry." ============ Chrysler and Chery End Small-Car Project Auto Makers' Efforts to Expand Their Reach Is Dealt a Setback By NORIHIKO SHIROUZU in Beijing and ALEX P. KELLOGG in Detroit Chrysler LLC's efforts to make its U.S.-dependent business more international suffered a serious blow this week, taking down with it Chinese partner Chery Automobile Co.'s bid to break into the North American market, after the two auto makers ended a joint project to make small cars for sale around the world. For Chrysler, the severing of the Chery ties ended one of its most promising potential routes to build a more competitive small-car lineup. Under a July 2007 deal, Chrysler had planned to develop a series of small cars based on Chery designs and technology. The cars were to be made in China to take advantage of Chery's low labor costs and sold globally under Chrysler's Dodge brand. snip The venture's first model was going to be a compact car based on Chery's 1.3-liter A1 car -- one of several cars the two companies, according to Chrysler, were supposed to develop. Phil Murtaugh, a top Chrysler executive in China, told a group of reporters at the Beijing auto show in April that the project was taking more time than Chrysler had initially expected because of some last-minute engineering "tweaks" being made to the Chery-designed platform to ensure the joint vehicle's structural rigidity meets safety regulations in the U.S. and elsewhere. Mr. Murtaugh didn't elaborate. Reached by phone Tuesday, he declined to comment. It wasn't immediately clear whether Chrysler is still trying to develop and produce small cars in China. After agreeing with Chery to jointly develop small cars, Chrysler went on to begin courting another start-up Chinese auto maker, Great Wall Motor Co. In July, Chrysler signed an agreement with Great Wall to explore cooperation in the areas of distribution and technology. According to a Chrysler spokesman, the end of the Chery deal won't affect any of the more than two dozen other alliances and partnerships Chrysler is currently engaged in. "Our partnerships are not interdependent," said Chrysler spokesman David Elshoff in an email. snip ----------- for complete article click on http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...googlenews_wsj FWIW -- From several articles it appears Chrysler/Cerberus is looking for an "Alt-A" zero documentation "bridge loan" in that they are refusing to release "confidential" information such as "total assets," "total debts," cash on hand, cash flow, etc. which publicly traded corporations like GM and FoMoCo must disclose in their SEC mandated quarterly and annual reports. The Cerberus hedge fund also owns slightly over half of GMAC [GM owns the rest] which has applied to become a one bank holding company which could then tap into the FRB. ==Note that Cerberus has refused to put any more of their own money into Chrysler.== I don't know about a taxpayer loan, but Cerberus/Chrysler does seem to qualify for a "Brass Balls of the Year" award. http://nymag.com/news/features/2007/hedgefunds/30342/ http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...0/b3953110.htm http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...0/b3953149.htm http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/ap...hedg-a27.shtml (note Delphi/GM involvement) http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...us-cover_x.htm http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ersight-grows/ (details efforts as Cerberus efforts as a registered lobbyist -- cut out the middleman?) Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end? Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625). |
GM Failure
On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 10:28:09 -0500, the infamous "Ed Huntress"
scrawled the following: "F. George McDuffee" wrote in message .. . On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 12:52:58 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: Question: How does some entity which is $3.5 BILLION in debt borrow an extra $8.3B for a merger?!? --snippage-- beneficiaries, and total assets of over $800 million. The Tribune Company Master Retirement Savings Trust had over $2.2 billion in assets for the 2006 plan year listed on Schedule H of Form 5500. A really interesting part of this litigation to watch will be the ultimate attorneys fees awarded when this litigation ends. ------------- Information now surfacing indicates Zell got control of the Tribune company and its pension funds/assets worth 8.2 billion for an investment of 300 million. Debt is now 13 billion and assets down to 7.6 billion, mostly in the form of non-liquid assets. Note that the Tribune [the company] was still profitable, just not profitable *ENOUGH*. Also note that the pension funds, "invested" in the sham ESOP were not guaranteed by the PBGC and are just gone [apparently into Zell's pockets]. We are looking at the "evaporation" of about 11 billion dollars [equity + new debt] from a company under Zell's control in less than a year. How gross does it have to get before its criminal? Wait 'till you hear the news today. The governor of Illinois is in FBI custody for corruption as of this morning, and part of it, apparently, involved deals made with the Tribune Company. The wicket is getting very sticky. For a certain someone _else_ from that area, perhaps? ;) Q: Are there any upstanding politicians (from city officials on up) from the state of Illinois? -- At current market valuations (GM is worth less than Mattel) the Chinese government can afford to buy GM with petty cash. --Bertel Shmitt on kencan7 blogspot |
GM Failure
==If any of our posters have funds in GMAC notes, make every
effort to get your funds transferred to a GMAC bank account ASAP. The GMAC bank is FDIC insured, and your money will be safe there.== Although it looks like the preliminary "bridge loans" to keep GM and Chrysler in business for the next 90 days or so are going to be approved, another major problem has just surfaced. GM and Cerberus, parent of Chrysler, jointly own GMAC [Residential Capital -- ResCap, Diatech Funding], which is in serious financial difficulty. An attempt is underway for GMAC to become a "one bank holding company" as they control GMAC bank, a FDIC insured institution, which would allow them to access the FRB discount window, among other taxpayer funding sources. This conversion is dependent on the existing GMAC bond holders "swapping" their debt for equity in GMAC to provide the capital demanded by the FRB to become a "one bank holding company." Being rational, the bond holders have so far refused, so the bankruptcy of GMAC by year's end is likely. GM and Chrysler/Cererbus are also intimently linked through Delphi, currently in chapter 11, now heading for chapter 7. ---------- GMAC extends deadline for tender offers By BREE FOWLER, AP NEW YORK – GMAC Financial Services, the financing arm of General Motors, said Wednesday that it hasn't raised enough capital to become a bank holding company and qualify for aid under the government's $700 billion bank rescue plan. GMAC, which provides both mortgage and car loans, is trying to reduce its debt and raise $30 billion in capital that regulators are requiring before it can become a bank holding company and possibly get access to government assistance. It warned that a failure to convert to a bank holding company would have a "material adverse effect" on its business. The finance company is raising capital by offering to exchange debt for cash, notes or preferred stock. But it said Wednesday it has only raised about $8.3 billion through the offers so far. In a last ditch effort, GMAC extended the early delivery time under its offers by three days, to Friday. It was the third time that the New York-based company, which is majority owned by the private equity firm Cerberus Capital Management LP, has extended the deadline. The automaker GM owns the remaining 49 percent of the financing company. GMAC is trying to exchange $38 billion of debt held by its divisions and mortgage business, Residential Capital LLC, for cash, new notes or preferred stock. If GMAC were to become a bank holding company, it could potentially be eligible for part of the government's $700 billion rescue package for the financial sector. snip In order to approve GMAC's application to become a bank holding company, the Federal Reserve has said the company needs at least $30 billion in regulatory capital. In order to meet that requirement, GMAC said it would have to have about 75 percent participation on its offers. So far, only about $6.3 billion, or 22 percent, of the outstanding GMAC notes have been tendered and about $2 billion, or 21 percent, of the outstanding ResCap notes have been tendered, GMAC said. If the offers aren't successful, GMAC said it will withdraw its application to become a bank holding company and it's unclear what its next move would be. GMAC said that if it's unable to transform into a bank holding company and complete the GMAC and ResCap offers by the end of the year, it would have a "near-term material adverse effect on GMAC's business, results of operations, and financial position." snip ---------- for complete article click on http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081210/...ANSCKn7w2yBhIF Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end? Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625). |
GM Failure
On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 09:26:37 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote: Re exchange with jcarroll on this point: While stupidity and incompetence in corporate governance may not [yet] be criminal offences, conspiracy/bribery to evade/avoid regulations and subvert/obstruct law enforcement most definitely are. Sure. Seen any of that? GM is good at exactly two things. The first is advertising. The second is the legal version of what you seek to punish - lobbying. ============= snip FWIW -- it does not appear that GM was an especially egregious, albeit highly effective, lobbying practitioner nor did they "push the envelope," but the financial services and energy/mining industries "let 'er rip." ..............following added .............. FWIW -- an example of how the financial services sector "let 'er rip" on a bipartisan basis. In fairness, the ROI [return on inventement] for this sponsorship was exceptionaly good. -------- Before handouts, big firms bankrolled conventions Dec 10 01:09 PM US/Eastern By PETE YOST Associated Press Writer WASHINGTON (AP) - Financial giants now being bailed out by the government spent millions underwriting the Democratic and Republican conventions last summer, just weeks before coming to Washington begging for multibillion-dollar handouts. The big donors included AIG, Ford Motor Co., Citigroup, Goldman Sachs and Freddie Mac. In all, major corporations, labor unions and individual millionaires dumped $118 million into the nominating conventions for Barack Obama and John McCain, according to reports from the Campaign Finance Institute and the Center for Responsive Politics. The private groups compiled the numbers from filings required under federal law. Private financing of the national political conventions is among the last avenues for corporations, unions and wealthy individuals to curry favor through big-bucks political contributions. Congress banned the giving of six- and seven-figure donations to the political parties, offerings known as "soft money," in a 2002 law that revamped campaign financing in response to concerns that large sums of money could give donors undue influence and lead to corruption. Together, all the donors spent $61 million on the Democratic convention and $57 million on the GOP convention. Among the corporate contributors: _American International Group Inc. gave $1.5 million, split down the middle between the Democratic convention in Denver and the Republican convention in Minneapolis-St. Paul. The government now is providing AIG a $150 billion financial-rescue package. _Citigroup, receiving tens of billions in bailout funds, spent $600,000, including $250,000 for the Democratic convention. _Goldman Sachs, the recipient of $10 billion in bailout money, spent $505,000 on the political conventions, including $255,000 for the Republican gathering. _Bank of America is receiving $15 billion in bailout funds and its newest acquisition, Merrill Lynch & Co., is getting $10 billion. Bank of America spent $100,000 on the Democratic convention, none on the Republican. The corporate donors also include Freddie Mac, the financially stricken mortgage housing giant which the government took over in September along with its sister company, Fannie Mae. Freddie Mac gave $250,000 to each convention. The company is asking for an injection of $13.8 billion in government aid after posting a huge quarterly loss. Wall Street hedge fund operators got into the act as well. The GOP convention got $2 million from Raymond Dalio of Bridgewater Associates. The Democratic convention received $500,000 from James Chanos of Kynikos Associates. The individual donors included billionaire Kirk Kerkorian, whose fortune has been stung by the plight of Ford Motor Co. and an economic downturn that has damaged his other investments. Kerkorian gave $2 million to help underwrite the Republican convention and $1.5 million for the Democratic convention. He gave the money through a foundation that he controls. Ford spent $200,000 on the conventions, divided evenly. Ford could benefit from the proposed auto industry bailout being worked out in Washington. Ford wants a $9 billion standby line of credit in case a competitor fails. The Federal Election Commission has continued to allow large contributions to flow to local committees set up to host the political conventions, and those host committees promise donors special access to each party's top leaders. snip ----------- for complete article [well worth reading] click on http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...cle=1&catnum=3 Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end? Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625). |
GM Failure
On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:24:26 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote: Wait 'till you hear the news today. The governor of Illinois is in FBI custody for corruption as of this morning, and part of it, apparently, involved deals made with the Tribune Company. The wicket is getting very sticky. For a certain someone _else_ from that area, perhaps? ;) Q: Are there any upstanding politicians (from city officials on up) from the state of Illinois? No. And one is about to take office as President of the US. Seen the new gun control laws his cronies are starting to push? Coded ammunition..must destroy your own personal stocks of "uncoded" stocks, including handloads.... Read Unintended Consequences recently? It may become true soon..... |
GM Failure
Gunner wrote:
On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:24:26 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: Wait 'till you hear the news today. The governor of Illinois is in FBI custody for corruption as of this morning, and part of it, apparently, involved deals made with the Tribune Company. The wicket is getting very sticky. For a certain someone _else_ from that area, perhaps? ;) Q: Are there any upstanding politicians (from city officials on up) from the state of Illinois? No. And one is about to take office as President of the US. Seen the new gun control laws his cronies are starting to push? I haven't, and at 46 years of age you don't have "cronies". Why don't you go ahead and post actual legislation - or even proposed legislation? -- Dick |
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Dick 'Tater wrote:
Gunner wrote: On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:24:26 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: Wait 'till you hear the news today. The governor of Illinois is in FBI custody for corruption as of this morning, and part of it, apparently, involved deals made with the Tribune Company. The wicket is getting very sticky. For a certain someone _else_ from that area, perhaps? ;) Q: Are there any upstanding politicians (from city officials on up) from the state of Illinois? No. And one is about to take office as President of the US. Seen the new gun control laws his cronies are starting to push? I haven't, and at 46 years of age you don't have "cronies". Why don't you go ahead and post actual legislation - or even proposed legislation? I've see some of it. There was a link posted here a few days ago. It's pretty much a dead issus - for anyone who wants to be reelected. http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/2142368/posts |
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Richard wrote:
Dick 'Tater wrote: Gunner wrote: On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:24:26 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: Wait 'till you hear the news today. The governor of Illinois is in FBI custody for corruption as of this morning, and part of it, apparently, involved deals made with the Tribune Company. The wicket is getting very sticky. For a certain someone _else_ from that area, perhaps? ;) Q: Are there any upstanding politicians (from city officials on up) from the state of Illinois? No. And one is about to take office as President of the US. Seen the new gun control laws his cronies are starting to push? I haven't, and at 46 years of age you don't have "cronies". Why don't you go ahead and post actual legislation - or even proposed legislation? I've see some of it. There was a link posted here a few days ago. It's pretty much a dead issus - for anyone who wants to be reelected. http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/2142368/posts Yeah, State laws, not federal. What State has Obama been elected President of? -- Dick |
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"Dick 'Tater" wrote in news:jy20l.11166$ZP4.5574
@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com: What State has Obama been elected President of? Chaos -- I used to be an anarchist but had to give it up: _far_ too many rules. |
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"Dick 'Tater" wrote in news:jy20l.11166$ZP4.5574
@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com: What State has Obama been elected President of? Denial - he denies people/things faster than anyone else. |
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Dick 'Tater wrote: Richard wrote: Dick 'Tater wrote: Gunner wrote: On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:24:26 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: Wait 'till you hear the news today. The governor of Illinois is in FBI custody for corruption as of this morning, and part of it, apparently, involved deals made with the Tribune Company. The wicket is getting very sticky. For a certain someone _else_ from that area, perhaps? ;) Q: Are there any upstanding politicians (from city officials on up) from the state of Illinois? No. And one is about to take office as President of the US. Seen the new gun control laws his cronies are starting to push? I haven't, and at 46 years of age you don't have "cronies". Why don't you go ahead and post actual legislation - or even proposed legislation? I've see some of it. There was a link posted here a few days ago. It's pretty much a dead issus - for anyone who wants to be reelected. http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/2142368/posts Yeah, State laws, not federal. What State has Obama been elected President of? Confusion. -- http://improve-usenet.org/index.html aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white listed, or I will not see your messages. If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm There are two kinds of people on this earth: The crazy, and the insane. The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy. |
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On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:50:18 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote: Dick 'Tater wrote: Richard wrote: Dick 'Tater wrote: Gunner wrote: On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:24:26 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: Wait 'till you hear the news today. The governor of Illinois is in FBI custody for corruption as of this morning, and part of it, apparently, involved deals made with the Tribune Company. The wicket is getting very sticky. For a certain someone _else_ from that area, perhaps? ;) Q: Are there any upstanding politicians (from city officials on up) from the state of Illinois? No. And one is about to take office as President of the US. Seen the new gun control laws his cronies are starting to push? I haven't, and at 46 years of age you don't have "cronies". Why don't you go ahead and post actual legislation - or even proposed legislation? I've see some of it. There was a link posted here a few days ago. It's pretty much a dead issus - for anyone who wants to be reelected. http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/2142368/posts Yeah, State laws, not federal. What State has Obama been elected President of? Confusion. Id say the State of "Leftist Denial" Which is not in Egypt. |
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Gunner wrote: On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:50:18 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell" wrote: Dick 'Tater wrote: Richard wrote: Dick 'Tater wrote: Gunner wrote: On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:24:26 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote: Wait 'till you hear the news today. The governor of Illinois is in FBI custody for corruption as of this morning, and part of it, apparently, involved deals made with the Tribune Company. The wicket is getting very sticky. For a certain someone _else_ from that area, perhaps? ;) Q: Are there any upstanding politicians (from city officials on up) from the state of Illinois? No. And one is about to take office as President of the US. Seen the new gun control laws his cronies are starting to push? I haven't, and at 46 years of age you don't have "cronies". Why don't you go ahead and post actual legislation - or even proposed legislation? I've see some of it. There was a link posted here a few days ago. It's pretty much a dead issus - for anyone who wants to be reelected. http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/2142368/posts Yeah, State laws, not federal. What State has Obama been elected President of? Confusion. Id say the State of "Leftist Denial" Confusion is the first stop on that journey. -- http://improve-usenet.org/index.html aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white listed, or I will not see your messages. If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm There are two kinds of people on this earth: The crazy, and the insane. The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy. |
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