On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 12:52:58 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

Question: How does some entity which is $3.5 BILLION in debt borrow an
extra $8.3B for a merger?!?

--snippage--
beneficiaries, and total assets of over $800 million. The Tribune
Company Master Retirement Savings Trust had over $2.2 billion in
assets for the 2006 plan year listed on Schedule H of Form 5500.
A really interesting part of this litigation to watch will be the
ultimate attorneys fees awarded when this litigation ends.
-------------
Information now surfacing indicates Zell got control of the
Tribune company and its pension funds/assets worth 8.2 billion
for an investment of 300 million.

Debt is now 13 billion and assets down to 7.6 billion, mostly in
the form of non-liquid assets.

Note that the Tribune [the company] was still profitable, just
not profitable *ENOUGH*. Also note that the pension funds,
"invested" in the sham ESOP were not guaranteed by the PBGC and
are just gone [apparently into Zell's pockets].

We are looking at the "evaporation" of about 11 billion dollars
[equity + new debt] from a company under Zell's control in less
than a year.

How gross does it have to get before its criminal?

==============
How Zell Killed Tribune
Stephane Fitch, 12.08.08, 07:42 PM EST
The ''grave dancer'' of real estate becomes the ''grave digger''
of the newspaper industry.

When Samuel Zell outbid two other billionaires, Eli Broad and
Ronald Burkle, for Tribune Co. last year, he was hailed as a
dealmaker.

For just thinnest possible sliver of equity--some $300
million--he landed an $8.2 billion empire featuring the Chicago
Cubs, a host of television stations and two of the most important
newspapers in America: The Chicago Tribune and Los Angeles Times.
Article Controls

"I am delighted to be associated with Tribune Company, which I
believe is a world-class publishing and broadcasting enterprise,"
Zell said back in April 2007, announcing the deal. "As a
long-term investor, I look forward to partnering with the
management and employees as we build on the great heritage of
Tribune Company."

Monday was a different story. Tribune declared bankruptcy in
Delaware. Against assets allegedly worth $7.6 billion, Tribune
Co. owes $13 billion. The "grave dancer" of real estate
development was now the "grave digger" of the newspaper world.

Bad economy or not, if it wasn't for Zell and the enormous debt
load he packed on the company, Tribune Co. would be trundling
along profitably. It hauled in operating cash flow--which is net
before taxes, depreciation, amortization and interest--of $90
million on $1 billion in revenue in the third quarter. In the six
quarters before that, Tribune Co. was hauling in $200 million to
$270 million per quarter in cash flow.
snip
--------------
for complete article click on
http://www.forbes.com/home/2008/12/0..._1208zell.html


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 12:52:58 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

Question: How does some entity which is $3.5 BILLION in debt borrow an
extra $8.3B for a merger?!?

--snippage--
beneficiaries, and total assets of over $800 million. The Tribune
Company Master Retirement Savings Trust had over $2.2 billion in
assets for the 2006 plan year listed on Schedule H of Form 5500.
A really interesting part of this litigation to watch will be the
ultimate attorneys fees awarded when this litigation ends.
-------------
Information now surfacing indicates Zell got control of the
Tribune company and its pension funds/assets worth 8.2 billion
for an investment of 300 million.

Debt is now 13 billion and assets down to 7.6 billion, mostly in
the form of non-liquid assets.

Note that the Tribune [the company] was still profitable, just
not profitable *ENOUGH*. Also note that the pension funds,
"invested" in the sham ESOP were not guaranteed by the PBGC and
are just gone [apparently into Zell's pockets].

We are looking at the "evaporation" of about 11 billion dollars
[equity + new debt] from a company under Zell's control in less
than a year.

How gross does it have to get before its criminal?

Quit top posting stuff George.
I'll answer your "question", but you already know.
As gross as stupidity may become, the rules and the law allowed all of this.
As a matter of fact, this behavior was encouraged and abetted.

Zell didn't kill anything.

JC

Question: How does some entity which is $3.5 BILLION in debt borrow an
extra $8.3B for a merger?!?

--snippage--
beneficiaries, and total assets of over $800 million. The Tribune
Company Master Retirement Savings Trust had over $2.2 billion in
assets for the 2006 plan year listed on Schedule H of Form 5500.
A really interesting part of this litigation to watch will be the
ultimate attorneys fees awarded when this litigation ends.
-------------
Information now surfacing indicates Zell got control of the
Tribune company and its pension funds/assets worth 8.2 billion
for an investment of 300 million.

Debt is now 13 billion and assets down to 7.6 billion, mostly in
the form of non-liquid assets.

Note that the Tribune [the company] was still profitable, just
not profitable *ENOUGH*. Also note that the pension funds,
"invested" in the sham ESOP were not guaranteed by the PBGC and
are just gone [apparently into Zell's pockets].

We are looking at the "evaporation" of about 11 billion dollars
[equity + new debt] from a company under Zell's control in less
than a year.

How gross does it have to get before its criminal?

Quit top posting stuff George.
I'll answer your "question", but you already know.
As gross as stupidity may become, the rules and the law allowed all of
this.
As a matter of fact, this behavior was encouraged and abetted.

Zell didn't kill anything.


How about his net worth? I don't know about these people that want to be
media tycoons. Rupert Murdoch is the same way. I guess these guys haven't
seen the handwriting on the wall yet when it comes to newspapers. They're
dead or at least on the way out. The internet is killing newspapers. It's an
obsolete form of media and it has no future. Why people are still trying to
own a newspaper chain is beyond me. I think they are fools and will only
bankrupt themselves. It's TV, computers, and handheld devices that are the
future. Paper and ink; that's so 19th century.

Hawke

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 12:52:58 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

Question: How does some entity which is $3.5 BILLION in debt borrow an
extra $8.3B for a merger?!?

--snippage--
beneficiaries, and total assets of over $800 million. The Tribune
Company Master Retirement Savings Trust had over $2.2 billion in
assets for the 2006 plan year listed on Schedule H of Form 5500.
A really interesting part of this litigation to watch will be the
ultimate attorneys fees awarded when this litigation ends.
-------------
Information now surfacing indicates Zell got control of the
Tribune company and its pension funds/assets worth 8.2 billion
for an investment of 300 million.

Debt is now 13 billion and assets down to 7.6 billion, mostly in
the form of non-liquid assets.

Note that the Tribune [the company] was still profitable, just
not profitable *ENOUGH*. Also note that the pension funds,
"invested" in the sham ESOP were not guaranteed by the PBGC and
are just gone [apparently into Zell's pockets].

We are looking at the "evaporation" of about 11 billion dollars
[equity + new debt] from a company under Zell's control in less
than a year.

How gross does it have to get before its criminal?

Wait 'till you hear the news today. The governor of Illinois is in FBI
custody for corruption as of this morning, and part of it, apparently,
involved deals made with the Tribune Company.

The wicket is getting very sticky.

--
Ed Huntress

On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 20:03:07 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

Information now surfacing indicates Zell got control of the
Tribune company and its pension funds/assets worth 8.2 billion
for an investment of 300 million.
-----------
I didn't think it was possible, but its getting even stinkier.
Crook county earned it's name.

==========
Illinois Governor Is Arrested on Corruption Charges (Update2)

By Thom Weidlich

Dec. 9 (Bloomberg) -- Illinois Governor Rod Blagojevich was
arrested with his chief of staff on charges they tried to sell
U.S. President-Elect Barack Obama’s vacated Senate seat,
according to Chicago U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald.

Blagojevich, 51, a Democrat, and John Harris, 46, the chief of
staff, are scheduled to appear later today in federal court in
Chicago, according to a statement by Fitzgerald.

==They and others also threatened to withhold state assistance
to Tribune Co. in connection with the company’s sale of the
Wrigley’s Field ballpark and to have fired members of the Chicago
Tribune editorial board who were critical of the governor,
according to the statement.==

Court-appointed wiretaps intercepted Blagojevich last month
conspiring to sell the Senate seat, according to Fitzgerald. At
various times, he sought in return a cabinet post, an
ambassadorship or a seat on a corporate board for his wife,
Fitzgerald said.

Tribune Co. filed for bankruptcy protection yesterday.
--------------
for complete article click on
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?p...OXc&refer=home


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 10:28:09 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:
snip
We are looking at the "evaporation" of about 11 billion dollars
[equity + new debt] from a company under Zell's control in less
than a year.

How gross does it have to get before its criminal?

Wait 'till you hear the news today. The governor of Illinois is in FBI
custody for corruption as of this morning, and part of it, apparently,
involved deals made with the Tribune Company.

The wicket is getting very sticky.
snip
---------------
Indeed, and I fervently hope this is an isolated and exceptional
case rather than the new standard.

Unfortunately, a presumption of rampant and extensive political
corruption and collusion with the "financial interests" resulting
in "short circuiting" of the regulatory and law enforcement
process fits the known facts all too well.

This leads directly into the question "are the current bail-out
efforts the result of an earnest desire on the part of the
politicians to help the US economy recover, are they the result
of bribes/kickbacks, or does the financial industry now have
adequate 'black-mail' material to force rescue funding?"

Re exchange with jcarroll on this point:

While stupidity and incompetence in corporate governance may not
[yet] be criminal offences, conspiracy/bribery to evade/avoid
regulations and subvert/obstruct law enforcement most definitely
are.

Given the huge sums involved, have the wire and other transfers
been checked for compliance with the money laundering and other
statutes, and if not, why not? How much of this money has been
sent "off-shore?"


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 10:28:09 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:
snip
We are looking at the "evaporation" of about 11 billion dollars
[equity + new debt] from a company under Zell's control in less
than a year.

How gross does it have to get before its criminal?

Wait 'till you hear the news today. The governor of Illinois is in FBI
custody for corruption as of this morning, and part of it, apparently,
involved deals made with the Tribune Company.

The wicket is getting very sticky.
snip
---------------
Indeed, and I fervently hope this is an isolated and exceptional
case rather than the new standard.

Blagojevich's predecessor is in jail right now.
LOL


Unfortunately, a presumption of rampant and extensive political
corruption and collusion with the "financial interests" resulting
in "short circuiting" of the regulatory and law enforcement
process fits the known facts all too well.

This leads directly into the question "are the current bail-out
efforts the result of an earnest desire on the part of the
politicians to help the US economy recover, are they the result
of bribes/kickbacks, or does the financial industry now have
adequate 'black-mail' material to force rescue funding?"

Re exchange with jcarroll on this point:

While stupidity and incompetence in corporate governance may not
[yet] be criminal offences, conspiracy/bribery to evade/avoid
regulations and subvert/obstruct law enforcement most definitely
are.

Sure.
Seen any of that?
GM is good at exactly two things. The first is advertising.
The second is the legal version of what you seek to punish - lobbying.

J

F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 10:28:09 -0500, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:
snip

We are looking at the "evaporation" of about 11 billion dollars
[equity + new debt] from a company under Zell's control in less
than a year.

How gross does it have to get before its criminal?

Wait 'till you hear the news today. The governor of Illinois is in FBI
custody for corruption as of this morning, and part of it, apparently,
involved deals made with the Tribune Company.

The wicket is getting very sticky.

snip
---------------
Indeed, and I fervently hope this is an isolated and exceptional
case rather than the new standard.

Unfortunately, a presumption of rampant and extensive political
corruption and collusion with the "financial interests" resulting
in "short circuiting" of the regulatory and law enforcement
process fits the known facts all too well.

This leads directly into the question "are the current bail-out
efforts the result of an earnest desire on the part of the
politicians to help the US economy recover, are they the result
of bribes/kickbacks, or does the financial industry now have
adequate 'black-mail' material to force rescue funding?"




As you said, fits the facts...



Re exchange with jcarroll on this point:

While stupidity and incompetence in corporate governance may not
[yet] be criminal offences, conspiracy/bribery to evade/avoid
regulations and subvert/obstruct law enforcement most definitely
are.

Given the huge sums involved, have the wire and other transfers
been checked for compliance with the money laundering and other
statutes, and if not, why not? How much of this money has been
sent "off-shore?"


John is pretty sharp on these matters.
If he is concerned, I suspect we all should be.


Take note all, that this is NOT a situation we have ever been through
before. Like I mentioned to Ed last week, old models don't apply to
new situations.

Richard

On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 09:26:37 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

Re exchange with jcarroll on this point:

While stupidity and incompetence in corporate governance may not
[yet] be criminal offences, conspiracy/bribery to evade/avoid
regulations and subvert/obstruct law enforcement most definitely
are.

Sure.
Seen any of that?
GM is good at exactly two things. The first is advertising.
The second is the legal version of what you seek to punish - lobbying.
-----------
Key word is "legal."

Everyone has a right to contact their Senators and
Representatives, and to present the most compelling case they can
about (existing & proposed) legislation/regulation.

At the other extreme, no one has the right to show up with an
actual or figurative attache case full of 100$ bills, nor does
the congressman have the right to accept.

The dividing line is very dim and blurred. For example, is a
standing weekly appointment to discuss current events of mutual
interest over a meal at a very expensive restaurant, paid for by
the contactor, acceptable?

In the case of GM, it can be plausibly argued that the
constituents' interests are indeed served by such meetings,
particularly where GM has a significant presence in the
district/state. SecDef "Engine Charlie" Wilson [under Eisenhower
when GM had 55% market share] was correct when he observed
"What's good for General Motors is good for the country, and
what's good for the country is good for General Motors," even
though this cost him his job. Even with "only" 20% of the
domestic US automotive market, GM remains a major factor/player.
Even the expensive restaurant can be "justified" as providing
"privacy," as compared to the House or Senate dining rooms.

Problems arise when contentious issues with broad societal
impact, for example emissions regulations, fuel economy,
crash-worthyness standards, work place safety, fiscal/financial
controls, etc. are discussed (and effectively decided) without
the opportunity for comparable input from the other
interested/affected/impacted groups.

It is becoming increasingly evident that far too much "lobbying"
is now on the wrong side of an admittedly dim and blurred line.
More than likely this was not an abrupt change, but a gradual
shift over the last 20 or so years.

FWIW -- it does not appear that GM was an especially egregious,
albeit highly effective, lobbying practitioner nor did they "push
the envelope," but the financial services and energy/mining
industries "let 'er rip."


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 09:26:37 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

Re exchange with jcarroll on this point:

While stupidity and incompetence in corporate governance may not
[yet] be criminal offences, conspiracy/bribery to evade/avoid
regulations and subvert/obstruct law enforcement most definitely
are.

Sure.
Seen any of that?
GM is good at exactly two things. The first is advertising.
The second is the legal version of what you seek to punish -
lobbying.
-----------
Key word is "legal."

Sure it is. Legislators and lobbyists know the law right down to the finest
detail for the most part.
They are obligated to follow the letter of the law, not its spirit.


Problems arise when contentious issues with broad societal
impact, for example emissions regulations, fuel economy,
crash-worthyness standards, work place safety, fiscal/financial
controls, etc. are discussed (and effectively decided) without
the opportunity for comparable input from the other
interested/affected/impacted groups.

An informed public that would trouble itself to excercise its right to vote
is the only voice required.
The ignorant and lazy forfeit their right at their own peril.


It is becoming increasingly evident that far too much "lobbying"
is now on the wrong side of an admittedly dim and blurred line.
More than likely this was not an abrupt change, but a gradual
shift over the last 20 or so years.

Things haven't really changed at all. The only difference is in the
mechanics, not the results.


FWIW -- it does not appear that GM was an especially egregious,
albeit highly effective, lobbying practitioner nor did they "push
the envelope," but the financial services and energy/mining
industries "let 'er rip."

Now there is where you will find criminals.

--

Dick

Not GM but Chrysler info.

Just ran across this article on how Chrysler was planning to
develop and produce small fuel efficient cars for the US to "save
the domestic auto industry."
============
Chrysler and Chery End Small-Car Project
Auto Makers' Efforts to Expand Their Reach Is Dealt a Setback
By NORIHIKO SHIROUZU in Beijing and ALEX P. KELLOGG in Detroit

Chrysler LLC's efforts to make its U.S.-dependent business more
international suffered a serious blow this week, taking down with
it Chinese partner Chery Automobile Co.'s bid to break into the
North American market, after the two auto makers ended a joint
project to make small cars for sale around the world.
For Chrysler, the severing of the Chery ties ended one of its
most promising potential routes to build a more competitive
small-car lineup.

Under a July 2007 deal, Chrysler had planned to develop a series
of small cars based on Chery designs and technology. The cars
were to be made in China to take advantage of Chery's low labor
costs and sold globally under Chrysler's Dodge brand.
snip
The venture's first model was going to be a compact car based on
Chery's 1.3-liter A1 car -- one of several cars the two
companies, according to Chrysler, were supposed to develop.

Phil Murtaugh, a top Chrysler executive in China, told a group of
reporters at the Beijing auto show in April that the project was
taking more time than Chrysler had initially expected because of
some last-minute engineering "tweaks" being made to the
Chery-designed platform to ensure the joint vehicle's structural
rigidity meets safety regulations in the U.S. and elsewhere. Mr.
Murtaugh didn't elaborate. Reached by phone Tuesday, he declined
to comment.

It wasn't immediately clear whether Chrysler is still trying to
develop and produce small cars in China. After agreeing with
Chery to jointly develop small cars, Chrysler went on to begin
courting another start-up Chinese auto maker, Great Wall Motor
Co. In July, Chrysler signed an agreement with Great Wall to
explore cooperation in the areas of distribution and technology.

According to a Chrysler spokesman, the end of the Chery deal
won't affect any of the more than two dozen other alliances and
partnerships Chrysler is currently engaged in. "Our partnerships
are not interdependent," said Chrysler spokesman David Elshoff in
an email.
snip
-----------
for complete article click on
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1228...googlenews_wsj

FWIW -- From several articles it appears Chrysler/Cerberus is
looking for an "Alt-A" zero documentation "bridge loan" in that
they are refusing to release "confidential" information such as
"total assets," "total debts," cash on hand, cash flow, etc.
which publicly traded corporations like GM and FoMoCo must
disclose in their SEC mandated quarterly and annual reports. The
Cerberus hedge fund also owns slightly over half of GMAC [GM owns
the rest] which has applied to become a one bank holding company
which could then tap into the FRB.

==Note that Cerberus has refused to put any more of their own
money into Chrysler.==

I don't know about a taxpayer loan, but Cerberus/Chrysler does
seem to qualify for a "Brass Balls of the Year" award.
http://nymag.com/news/features/2007/hedgefunds/30342/
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...0/b3953110.htm
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...0/b3953149.htm
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/ap...hedg-a27.shtml
(note Delphi/GM involvement)
http://www.usatoday.com/news/washing...us-cover_x.htm
http://dealbook.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ersight-grows/
(details efforts as Cerberus efforts as a registered lobbyist --
cut out the middleman?)



Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 10:28:09 -0500, the infamous "Ed Huntress"
scrawled the following:


"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 08 Dec 2008 12:52:58 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

Question: How does some entity which is $3.5 BILLION in debt borrow an
extra $8.3B for a merger?!?

--snippage--
beneficiaries, and total assets of over $800 million. The Tribune
Company Master Retirement Savings Trust had over $2.2 billion in
assets for the 2006 plan year listed on Schedule H of Form 5500.
A really interesting part of this litigation to watch will be the
ultimate attorneys fees awarded when this litigation ends.
-------------
Information now surfacing indicates Zell got control of the
Tribune company and its pension funds/assets worth 8.2 billion
for an investment of 300 million.

Debt is now 13 billion and assets down to 7.6 billion, mostly in
the form of non-liquid assets.

Note that the Tribune [the company] was still profitable, just
not profitable *ENOUGH*. Also note that the pension funds,
"invested" in the sham ESOP were not guaranteed by the PBGC and
are just gone [apparently into Zell's pockets].

We are looking at the "evaporation" of about 11 billion dollars
[equity + new debt] from a company under Zell's control in less
than a year.

How gross does it have to get before its criminal?

Wait 'till you hear the news today. The governor of Illinois is in FBI
custody for corruption as of this morning, and part of it, apparently,
involved deals made with the Tribune Company.

The wicket is getting very sticky.

For a certain someone _else_ from that area, perhaps?

Q: Are there any upstanding politicians (from city officials on up)
from the state of Illinois?

--
At current market valuations (GM is worth less than Mattel)
the Chinese government can afford to buy GM with petty cash.
--Bertel Shmitt on kencan7 blogspot

==If any of our posters have funds in GMAC notes, make every
effort to get your funds transferred to a GMAC bank account ASAP.
The GMAC bank is FDIC insured, and your money will be safe
there.==

Although it looks like the preliminary "bridge loans" to keep GM
and Chrysler in business for the next 90 days or so are going to
be approved, another major problem has just surfaced.

GM and Cerberus, parent of Chrysler, jointly own GMAC
[Residential Capital -- ResCap, Diatech Funding], which is in
serious financial difficulty. An attempt is underway for GMAC to
become a "one bank holding company" as they control GMAC bank, a
FDIC insured institution, which would allow them to access the
FRB discount window, among other taxpayer funding sources.

This conversion is dependent on the existing GMAC bond holders
"swapping" their debt for equity in GMAC to provide the capital
demanded by the FRB to become a "one bank holding company."
Being rational, the bond holders have so far refused, so the
bankruptcy of GMAC by year's end is likely.

GM and Chrysler/Cererbus are also intimently linked through
Delphi, currently in chapter 11, now heading for chapter 7.

----------
GMAC extends deadline for tender offers

By BREE FOWLER, AP

NEW YORK – GMAC Financial Services, the financing arm of General
Motors, said Wednesday that it hasn't raised enough capital to
become a bank holding company and qualify for aid under the
government's $700 billion bank rescue plan.

GMAC, which provides both mortgage and car loans, is trying to
reduce its debt and raise $30 billion in capital that regulators
are requiring before it can become a bank holding company and
possibly get access to government assistance.

It warned that a failure to convert to a bank holding company
would have a "material adverse effect" on its business.

The finance company is raising capital by offering to exchange
debt for cash, notes or preferred stock. But it said Wednesday it
has only raised about $8.3 billion through the offers so far.

In a last ditch effort, GMAC extended the early delivery time
under its offers by three days, to Friday.

It was the third time that the New York-based company, which is
majority owned by the private equity firm Cerberus Capital
Management LP, has extended the deadline. The automaker GM owns
the remaining 49 percent of the financing company.

GMAC is trying to exchange $38 billion of debt held by its
divisions and mortgage business, Residential Capital LLC, for
cash, new notes or preferred stock.

If GMAC were to become a bank holding company, it could
potentially be eligible for part of the government's $700 billion
rescue package for the financial sector.

snip

In order to approve GMAC's application to become a bank holding
company, the Federal Reserve has said the company needs at least
$30 billion in regulatory capital. In order to meet that
requirement, GMAC said it would have to have about 75 percent
participation on its offers.

So far, only about $6.3 billion, or 22 percent, of the
outstanding GMAC notes have been tendered and about $2 billion,
or 21 percent, of the outstanding ResCap notes have been
tendered, GMAC said.

If the offers aren't successful, GMAC said it will withdraw its
application to become a bank holding company and it's unclear
what its next move would be.

GMAC said that if it's unable to transform into a bank holding
company and complete the GMAC and ResCap offers by the end of the
year, it would have a "near-term material adverse effect on
GMAC's business, results of operations, and financial position."

snip
----------
for complete article click on
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20081210/...ANSCKn7w2yBhIF


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Tue, 9 Dec 2008 09:26:37 -0800, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

Re exchange with jcarroll on this point:

While stupidity and incompetence in corporate governance may not
[yet] be criminal offences, conspiracy/bribery to evade/avoid
regulations and subvert/obstruct law enforcement most definitely
are.

Sure.
Seen any of that?
GM is good at exactly two things. The first is advertising.
The second is the legal version of what you seek to punish - lobbying.
=============
snip

FWIW -- it does not appear that GM was an especially egregious,
albeit highly effective, lobbying practitioner nor did they "push
the envelope," but the financial services and energy/mining
industries "let 'er rip."
..............following added ..............
FWIW -- an example of how the financial services sector "let 'er
rip" on a bipartisan basis. In fairness, the ROI [return on
inventement] for this sponsorship was exceptionaly good.
--------
Before handouts, big firms bankrolled conventions
Dec 10 01:09 PM US/Eastern
By PETE YOST
Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) - Financial giants now being bailed out by the
government spent millions underwriting the Democratic and
Republican conventions last summer, just weeks before coming to
Washington begging for multibillion-dollar handouts.

The big donors included AIG, Ford Motor Co., Citigroup, Goldman
Sachs and Freddie Mac.

In all, major corporations, labor unions and individual
millionaires dumped $118 million into the nominating conventions
for Barack Obama and John McCain, according to reports from the
Campaign Finance Institute and the Center for Responsive
Politics. The private groups compiled the numbers from filings
required under federal law.

Private financing of the national political conventions is among
the last avenues for corporations, unions and wealthy individuals
to curry favor through big-bucks political contributions.
Congress banned the giving of six- and seven-figure donations to
the political parties, offerings known as "soft money," in a 2002
law that revamped campaign financing in response to concerns that
large sums of money could give donors undue influence and lead to
corruption.

Together, all the donors spent $61 million on the Democratic
convention and $57 million on the GOP convention.

Among the corporate contributors:

_American International Group Inc. gave $1.5 million, split down
the middle between the Democratic convention in Denver and the
Republican convention in Minneapolis-St. Paul. The government now
is providing AIG a $150 billion financial-rescue package.

_Citigroup, receiving tens of billions in bailout funds, spent
$600,000, including $250,000 for the Democratic convention.

_Goldman Sachs, the recipient of $10 billion in bailout money,
spent $505,000 on the political conventions, including $255,000
for the Republican gathering.

_Bank of America is receiving $15 billion in bailout funds and
its newest acquisition, Merrill Lynch & Co., is getting $10
billion. Bank of America spent $100,000 on the Democratic
convention, none on the Republican.

The corporate donors also include Freddie Mac, the financially
stricken mortgage housing giant which the government took over in
September along with its sister company, Fannie Mae. Freddie Mac
gave $250,000 to each convention. The company is asking for an
injection of $13.8 billion in government aid after posting a huge
quarterly loss.

Wall Street hedge fund operators got into the act as well. The
GOP convention got $2 million from Raymond Dalio of Bridgewater
Associates. The Democratic convention received $500,000 from
James Chanos of Kynikos Associates.

The individual donors included billionaire Kirk Kerkorian, whose
fortune has been stung by the plight of Ford Motor Co. and an
economic downturn that has damaged his other investments.

Kerkorian gave $2 million to help underwrite the Republican
convention and $1.5 million for the Democratic convention. He
gave the money through a foundation that he controls.

Ford spent $200,000 on the conventions, divided evenly. Ford
could benefit from the proposed auto industry bailout being
worked out in Washington. Ford wants a $9 billion standby line of
credit in case a competitor fails.

The Federal Election Commission has continued to allow large
contributions to flow to local committees set up to host the
political conventions, and those host committees promise donors
special access to each party's top leaders.
snip
-----------
for complete article [well worth reading] click on
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php...cle=1&catnum=3


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).

On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:24:26 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Wait 'till you hear the news today. The governor of Illinois is in FBI
custody for corruption as of this morning, and part of it, apparently,
involved deals made with the Tribune Company.

The wicket is getting very sticky.

For a certain someone _else_ from that area, perhaps?

Q: Are there any upstanding politicians (from city officials on up)
from the state of Illinois?


No. And one is about to take office as President of the US.

Seen the new gun control laws his cronies are starting to push?

Coded ammunition..must destroy your own personal stocks of "uncoded"
stocks, including handloads....

Read Unintended Consequences recently? It may become true soon.....

Gunner wrote:
On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:24:26 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Wait 'till you hear the news today. The governor of Illinois is in
FBI custody for corruption as of this morning, and part of it,
apparently, involved deals made with the Tribune Company.

The wicket is getting very sticky.

For a certain someone _else_ from that area, perhaps?

Q: Are there any upstanding politicians (from city officials on up)
from the state of Illinois?


No. And one is about to take office as President of the US.

Seen the new gun control laws his cronies are starting to push?

I haven't, and at 46 years of age you don't have "cronies".

Why don't you go ahead and post actual legislation - or even proposed
legislation?


--

Dick

Dick 'Tater wrote:
Gunner wrote:

On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:24:26 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Wait 'till you hear the news today. The governor of Illinois is in
FBI custody for corruption as of this morning, and part of it,
apparently, involved deals made with the Tribune Company.

The wicket is getting very sticky.

For a certain someone _else_ from that area, perhaps?

Q: Are there any upstanding politicians (from city officials on up)
from the state of Illinois?


No. And one is about to take office as President of the US.

Seen the new gun control laws his cronies are starting to push?


I haven't, and at 46 years of age you don't have "cronies".

Why don't you go ahead and post actual legislation - or even proposed
legislation?



I've see some of it.

There was a link posted here a few days ago.

It's pretty much a dead issus - for anyone who wants to be reelected.

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/2142368/posts

Richard wrote:
Dick 'Tater wrote:
Gunner wrote:

On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:24:26 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Wait 'till you hear the news today. The governor of Illinois is in
FBI custody for corruption as of this morning, and part of it,
apparently, involved deals made with the Tribune Company.

The wicket is getting very sticky.

For a certain someone _else_ from that area, perhaps?

Q: Are there any upstanding politicians (from city officials on up)
from the state of Illinois?


No. And one is about to take office as President of the US.

Seen the new gun control laws his cronies are starting to push?


I haven't, and at 46 years of age you don't have "cronies".

Why don't you go ahead and post actual legislation - or even proposed
legislation?



I've see some of it.

There was a link posted here a few days ago.

It's pretty much a dead issus - for anyone who wants to be reelected.

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/2142368/posts

Yeah,
State laws, not federal.
What State has Obama been elected President of?


--

Dick

"Dick 'Tater" wrote in news:jy20l.11166$ZP4.5574
@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com:

What State has Obama been elected President of?

Chaos

--

I used to be an anarchist but had to give it up: _far_ too many rules.

"Dick 'Tater" wrote in news:jy20l.11166$ZP4.5574
@nlpi067.nbdc.sbc.com:

What State has Obama been elected President of?

Denial - he denies people/things faster than anyone else.

Dick 'Tater wrote:

Richard wrote:
Dick 'Tater wrote:
Gunner wrote:

On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:24:26 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Wait 'till you hear the news today. The governor of Illinois is in
FBI custody for corruption as of this morning, and part of it,
apparently, involved deals made with the Tribune Company.

The wicket is getting very sticky.

For a certain someone _else_ from that area, perhaps?

Q: Are there any upstanding politicians (from city officials on up)
from the state of Illinois?


No. And one is about to take office as President of the US.

Seen the new gun control laws his cronies are starting to push?


I haven't, and at 46 years of age you don't have "cronies".

Why don't you go ahead and post actual legislation - or even proposed
legislation?



I've see some of it.

There was a link posted here a few days ago.

It's pretty much a dead issus - for anyone who wants to be reelected.

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/2142368/posts

Yeah,
State laws, not federal.
What State has Obama been elected President of?


Confusion.


--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
listed, or I will not see your messages.

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:50:18 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Dick 'Tater wrote:

Richard wrote:
Dick 'Tater wrote:
Gunner wrote:

On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:24:26 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Wait 'till you hear the news today. The governor of Illinois is in
FBI custody for corruption as of this morning, and part of it,
apparently, involved deals made with the Tribune Company.

The wicket is getting very sticky.

For a certain someone _else_ from that area, perhaps?

Q: Are there any upstanding politicians (from city officials on up)
from the state of Illinois?


No. And one is about to take office as President of the US.

Seen the new gun control laws his cronies are starting to push?


I haven't, and at 46 years of age you don't have "cronies".

Why don't you go ahead and post actual legislation - or even proposed
legislation?



I've see some of it.

There was a link posted here a few days ago.

It's pretty much a dead issus - for anyone who wants to be reelected.

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/2142368/posts

Yeah,
State laws, not federal.
What State has Obama been elected President of?


Confusion.

Id say the State of "Leftist Denial"

Which is not in Egypt.

Gunner wrote:

On Thu, 11 Dec 2008 11:50:18 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Dick 'Tater wrote:

Richard wrote:
Dick 'Tater wrote:
Gunner wrote:

On Tue, 09 Dec 2008 20:24:26 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Wait 'till you hear the news today. The governor of Illinois is in
FBI custody for corruption as of this morning, and part of it,
apparently, involved deals made with the Tribune Company.

The wicket is getting very sticky.

For a certain someone _else_ from that area, perhaps?

Q: Are there any upstanding politicians (from city officials on up)
from the state of Illinois?


No. And one is about to take office as President of the US.

Seen the new gun control laws his cronies are starting to push?


I haven't, and at 46 years of age you don't have "cronies".

Why don't you go ahead and post actual legislation - or even proposed
legislation?



I've see some of it.

There was a link posted here a few days ago.

It's pretty much a dead issus - for anyone who wants to be reelected.

http://209.157.64.200/focus/f-news/2142368/posts

Yeah,
State laws, not federal.
What State has Obama been elected President of?


Confusion.

Id say the State of "Leftist Denial"


Confusion is the first stop on that journey.


--
http://improve-usenet.org/index.html

aioe.org, Goggle Groups, and Web TV users must request to be white
listed, or I will not see your messages.

If you have broadband, your ISP may have a NNTP news server included in
your account: http://www.usenettools.net/ISP.htm


There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.