Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Sorry for another OT post but I think this one could be interesting to some
on here. I have noticed in many discussions on this newsgroup people
stating things like the miracles in the Bible not being possible because
they defy the laws of physics, etc. One example is that people say the
flood of Noah is impossible because there is not enough water on Earth to
make a global flood possible. A basic ability of God is to create something
from nothing or multiplying something.

God's ability to create and multiply the physical is not new and not
outdated. This is reported to happen many times in the Bible. Some
examples are the flood of Noah, a lamp that wouldn't run out of oil, food
that wouldn't run out, etc. A new testament example is Jesus feeding 5000
men plus women and children with only a few fish and loaves. Yes, I know
that this isn't possible, that's why it's a miracle. The kicker is that
these kinds of things still happen today. There have been occasions that
people had a need to travel but no fuel, and through trusting God they have
driven hundreds of miles without fuel. Another instance I read about on the
web is when some folks had no fuel oil for heat, they prayed, their heat
came back on and got them through without fuel.

I know this isn't the same as creating something from nothing but God has
also provided for people in their times of need. Here's one that happened
within the last month. A few years ago my Mom lost her job when the
cleaners that she was a seamstress at closed down. She's been doing
alterations from her home and getting a little on retirement. She never
made much money, I think she got up to $8/hr before the cleaners closed.
Anyway, last month she had a slow month and only made $85 for the month.
Then she got over $2400 in the mail from a back tax return from a few years
ago when the cleaners closed. What's the chance of having your worst month
financially and getting a check from years past taxes in October? These
kind of occurrences aren't every day but they are fairly common.

Another thing that "just worked out" is that after my wife lost her job, I
needed 4 hours a week overtime to meet my budget. My new position at work
needed me to work an extra 8 hours every other week. Wow, just what my
budget needed. As my wife's unemployment ran out, my position changed to
where more overtime was available and I have been able to replace what she
lost with just a few extra hours per week. Anyway, the availability of
overtime and my loss of family income, and need for the overtime, has
coincided perfectly. This isn't nowhere near the best I've experienced but
it's more recent than other things.

Anyway, it just seems funny that some people are arguing the existance of
God while others are experiencing miracles, up to and including God raising
people from the dead, on a somewhat regular basis (miracles on a somewhat
regular basis, not God raising the dead on a regular basis). It's about
like someone that doesn't know what they are talking about in the
metalworking realm saying metal can't be cut. In other words, don't base
your knowledge of God on what an Athiest tells you, ask the best example of
a believer you can find why they believe in God. Or ask a missionary if
they have ever seen any miracles, or what's the most convincing miracle
they've seen.

RogerN


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"RogerN" wrote in message
m...
Sorry for another OT post but I think this one could be interesting to
some on here. snip---


Not to me. All it does is show you for the simpleton you appear to be.

Where was this God when 500 people died in a 747, hitting the side of a
mountain?

Am I too assume that that's what he/she/it wanted?

Where is this God when other people have similar hardships to those you
described, but they didn't receive a windfall in the mail------or didn't get
overtime, but instead maybe lost their jobs, and their house as well,
turning themselves and their young children out in the streets? A rather
vengeful God, wouldn't you say?

I was born at night, but not last night------I am all too well aware of the
fact that things happen---both good and bad things. Surely you can
remember times when you needed something that could make a big difference in
your life and you didn't get it? Was that God's fault? I think not.

As for these "miracles" you speak of------have you witnessed one? I
haven't----and I've lived more than 69 years now. The idea that the earth
was totally flooded is absurd----the stuff of folklore. Anyone can
fabricate a tall tale-----and reading something in print doesn't make it
true. Ever considered the idea that the Bible was written by charlatans
with less than honorable purposes in mind? Like stealing your mind and your
possessions? Surely you have seen the horrible atrocities committed by man
in the name of God? They're happening right now, in Afghanistan and Iraq.

Mind you, I have no doubt that the people that reported the "flood"
experienced one----their region most assuredly got flooded. But----the
entire earth? Utter nonsense.

Show me proof.

Mean time----try posting nonsense such as yours where it belongs-----not on
a forum dedicated to mechanical work. Leave your religious views at the
curb-----do not push them on others.

Harold


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On 2008-10-26, RogerN wrote:
that wouldn't run out, etc. A new testament example is Jesus feeding 5000
men plus women and children with only a few fish and loaves. Yes, I know


Linux is the modern equivalent of that, giving goodness to millions
for free.

I used to be an agnostic, but by now I made up my mind and am an
atheist.

i
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On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 21:56:29 -0500, "RogerN"
wrote:

Sorry for another OT post but I think this one could be interesting to some
on here.


Don't know whether you're preaching or sharing here, but you're sure
right about being Off Topic.

Do keep the faith, perhaps testify elsewhere please?

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Perhaps your new-fangled God is a posiuer.
An and Enki are not dead.
Prove me wrong.


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If he was truly sorry he wouldn't have done it in the first place. He
started out with a lie and followed it with a justification.
He has sinned against us.

While discussing the legend of Brokk and Eitri forging Mjollnir, the golden
hammer of Thor, or sharing plans on how to best make a silver cross, could
be considered metalworking related, "loaves and fishes" is clearly not.
I am certain that there are still plenty of religious discussion groups on
the web. Please take your propaganda there.
--
The (mail order) Reverend Stupendous Man,
Defender of Freedom, Advocate of Liberty

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"RogerN" (clip) A basic ability of God is to create something
from nothing or multiplying something. (clip)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Basically, your entire argument can be condensed to: "Miracles seem
impossible. That's what makes them miracles." I can't recall seeing a
better example of circular argument. The God that I know of created the
laws of physics, and chose to stay behind the scenes where He cannot be
detected. These laws are so all-powerful that they cannot be broken. Since
He cannot be detected, it serves no purpose to believe He exists.


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"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
. net...

"RogerN" wrote in message
m...
Sorry for another OT post but I think this one could be interesting to
some on here. snip---


Not to me. All it does is show you for the simpleton you appear to be.

Where was this God when 500 people died in a 747, hitting the side of a
mountain?


Good question. There is a common mis-conception that the things that happen
on Earth are God's will. When the Disciples asked Jesus to teach them to
pray, part of that prayer was "thy will be done on Earth as it is in
Heaven." We wouldn't need to pray that if God's will was automatically done
on Earth. If Jesus went about doing God's will and healing the sick, then
it would stand to reason that their sickness was not God's will. Jesus also
raised the dead, those deaths must not have been God's will either. If 500
people die in a 747 hitting the side of a mountain in Heaven, then it would
be God's will, what happens on Earth isn't necessarily God's will.

Am I too assume that that's what he/she/it wanted?


Answered above

Where is this God when other people have similar hardships to those you
described, but they didn't receive a windfall in the mail------or didn't
get overtime, but instead maybe lost their jobs, and their house as well,
turning themselves and their young children out in the streets? A rather
vengeful God, wouldn't you say?


Where they trusting God as provider? Sick people that didn't get near Jesus
generally didn't get healed by Jesus. Exceptions being when someone came to
Jesus and asked him to heal someone that was at home sick.

I was born at night, but not last night------I am all too well aware of
the fact that things happen---both good and bad things. Surely you can
remember times when you needed something that could make a big difference
in your life and you didn't get it? Was that God's fault? I think not.

As for these "miracles" you speak of------have you witnessed one? I
haven't----and I've lived more than 69 years now. The idea that the
earth was totally flooded is absurd----the stuff of folklore. Anyone can
fabricate a tall tale-----and reading something in print doesn't make it
true. Ever considered the idea that the Bible was written by charlatans
with less than honorable purposes in mind? Like stealing your mind and
your possessions? Surely you have seen the horrible atrocities committed
by man in the name of God? They're happening right now, in Afghanistan
and Iraq.


Yes, I've had miracles happen to me and also witnessed them happening to
others. Nothing as good as someone being brought back from the dead but
definately miracles. However I've been living 45 years now and have
traveled probably a million miles but I've never seen the statue of liberty,
should I assume it doesn't exist? Should I assume all the witnesses that
have seen the statue of liberty are simpletons and just making stuff up
because they want me to believe that there is a statue of liberty?

Mind you, I have no doubt that the people that reported the "flood"
experienced one----their region most assuredly got flooded. But----the
entire earth? Utter nonsense.

Show me proof.

Mean time----try posting nonsense such as yours where it belongs-----not
on a forum dedicated to mechanical work. Leave your religious views at
the curb-----do not push them on others.

Harold


Harold, there's a lot of people like you that have lived many years and have
never seen a miracle. If the Bible is true and if a post might encourage
someone to check it out and see that what's in the Bible still happens
today, then perhaps it could do someone some good. A man I know had a
mother that was dying of cancer (before she had him), the Doctors sent her
home to die as they could not do anything for her. His father heard that
there was a man that prayed for people and they got healed. The father sent
for this person and he came and prayed for this woman that was nearly dead.
The woman got up and the cancer mass fell off of her body. That's the kind
of thing we could use today. If his father had never heard of anyone that
prayed for the sick with results then the woman would have died like
thousands of others do.

A forum dedicated to Mechanical work? I thought this was a political forum
:-)

RogerN


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"Ignoramus3071" wrote in message
...
On 2008-10-26, RogerN wrote:
that wouldn't run out, etc. A new testament example is Jesus feeding
5000
men plus women and children with only a few fish and loaves. Yes, I know


Linux is the modern equivalent of that, giving goodness to millions
for free.


Yeah, Linux is good stuff, I wish I knew it better. I have a lathe that I
run EMC2 on that uses Linux. If I can get my Windows PC's to share files,
I'll be able to transfer CNC files over wireless network to the lathe. I
have a CNC Bridgeport that I want to convert to Linux EMC2 next.

I remember you writing some files (scripts?) to give you coordinates to turn
your handwheels and getting circular interpolation, etc., on your manual
mill. If I remember correctly you were starting to look at the possibility
of motorizing some of the Axis' and looking at EMC2. Just wondering if you
went any further with that?

I used to be an agnostic, but by now I made up my mind and am an
atheist.

i


Gee Iggy, did I help you make up your mind? Glad to help... I guess. I
enjoy most of your posts Iggy, if I get to Heaven and you end up in Hell
I'll ask God if I can send you an Ice Cream bar, what kind do you like? :-)

RogerN


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RogerN wrote:

A forum dedicated to Mechanical work? I thought this was a political forum
:-)

RogerN


I think almost all of them are political forums right now. Hopefully that will change in
just over a week. However, I expect them to become debating forums then, discussing why
party X "lost" - or "won".

Your reply to the above topic was sound and in the right "tone" - unlike some of the name
calling that preceded it.

Thanks,

Al


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On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 23:04:30 -0500, Ignoramus3071
wrote:

On 2008-10-26, RogerN wrote:
that wouldn't run out, etc. A new testament example is Jesus feeding 5000
men plus women and children with only a few fish and loaves. Yes, I know


Linux is the modern equivalent of that, giving goodness to millions
for free.

I used to be an agnostic, but by now I made up my mind and am an
atheist.

i


Atheism, just another faith based belief system.


Gunner

Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.
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On 2008-10-26, RogerN wrote:

"Ignoramus3071" wrote in message
...
On 2008-10-26, RogerN wrote:
that wouldn't run out, etc. A new testament example is Jesus feeding
5000
men plus women and children with only a few fish and loaves. Yes, I know


Linux is the modern equivalent of that, giving goodness to millions
for free.


Yeah, Linux is good stuff, I wish I knew it better. I have a lathe that I
run EMC2 on that uses Linux. If I can get my Windows PC's to share files,
I'll be able to transfer CNC files over wireless network to the lathe. I
have a CNC Bridgeport that I want to convert to Linux EMC2 next.

I remember you writing some files (scripts?) to give you coordinates to turn
your handwheels and getting circular interpolation, etc., on your manual
mill. If I remember correctly you were starting to look at the possibility
of motorizing some of the Axis' and looking at EMC2. Just wondering if you
went any further with that?


No, I decided that converting my manual mill to CNC would be a
mistake.

I used to be an agnostic, but by now I made up my mind and am an
atheist.

i


Gee Iggy, did I help you make up your mind? Glad to help... I guess. I
enjoy most of your posts Iggy, if I get to Heaven and you end up in Hell
I'll ask God if I can send you an Ice Cream bar, what kind do you like? :-)


No, I made up my mind appx. 2 years ago. Definitely a great idea about
sending ice cream.
--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/
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Why limit yourself to one God? There are a lot more than that... If you
are going to believe then start believing in the greek pantheon. You'll
be seing miracles every day. You'll see the real reason behind thunder
and lighting, and why the sun rises and sets every day, even the stars
at night will show you recognizable patterns.
May Zeus preserve you
T.Alan
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Gunner Asch wrote:


Atheism, just another faith based belief system.


You're right, Gunner. It just takes a lot more faith to believe thar aint no God than it
does to believe there is One! ;-)
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On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 07:05:20 -0800, the infamous "T.Alan Kraus"
scrawled the following:

Why limit yourself to one God? There are a lot more than that... If you
are going to believe then start believing in the greek pantheon. You'll
be seing miracles every day. You'll see the real reason behind thunder
and lighting, and why the sun rises and sets every day, even the stars
at night will show you recognizable patterns.
May Zeus preserve you
T.Alan


(see sig)

-
If the gods had meant us to vote, they'd have given us candidates.
--------------


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"RogerN" wrote in message
m...
Sorry for another OT post but I think this one could be interesting to
some on here. I have noticed in many discussions on this newsgroup people
stating things like the miracles in the Bible not being possible because
they defy the laws of physics, etc. One example is that people say the
flood of Noah is impossible because there is not enough water on Earth to
make a global flood possible. A basic ability of God is to create
something from nothing or multiplying something.

God's ability to create and multiply the physical is not new and not
outdated. This is reported to happen many times in the Bible. Some
examples are the flood of Noah,


Which begs the question....Why did such an omnipotent god need to go through
the drill of the great flood when a snap of the fingers (figuratively) would
have wiped out the entire population of the Earth except Noah's family? Why
have Noah build an ark when a snap of the fingers would have made it appear?



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Ignoramus3071 wrote:

I used to be an agnostic, but by now I made up my mind and am an
atheist.


It is alright to not believe in God unless he decides he doesn't believe in you anymore.

Wes
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Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 23:04:30 -0500, Ignoramus3071
wrote:

On 2008-10-26, RogerN wrote:
that wouldn't run out, etc. A new testament example is Jesus feeding 5000
men plus women and children with only a few fish and loaves. Yes, I know

Linux is the modern equivalent of that, giving goodness to millions
for free.

I used to be an agnostic, but by now I made up my mind and am an
atheist.

i


Atheism, just another faith based belief system.


Gunner


Which is why I'm an agnostic pantheist.

Except on Leap Day.

Then I'm a pantheistic agnostic.

David
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John Kunkel wrote:

Which begs the question....Why did such an omnipotent god need to go through
the drill of the great flood when a snap of the fingers (figuratively) would
have wiped out the entire population of the Earth except Noah's family? Why
have Noah build an ark when a snap of the fingers would have made it appear?


Supposedly it took Noah 120 years to build that ark and he was preaching/testifying to his
generation at that time. God was giving that generation 120 years to repent of all their
evils, even while knowing beforehand that none of them would. While His judgments may
seem harsh by some standards today He has been quite lenient in dealing with His people,
and those who are not His chosen people.
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"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...

Don't know whether you're preaching or sharing here, but you're sure
right about being Off Topic.

Do keep the faith, perhaps testify elsewhere please?


I agree with Don's sentiment 100%, but I just wonder why about 10 folks
jumped on RogerN, but most folks who post political **** to rcm get a pass? To
my way of thinking, politics and religion are about equally offensive here.

Vaughn






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"John Kunkel" wrote in message
. ..

snip
,

Which begs the question....Why did such an omnipotent god need to go
through the drill of the great flood when a snap of the fingers
(figuratively) would have wiped out the entire population of the Earth
except Noah's family? Why have Noah build an ark when a snap of the
fingers would have made it appear?


I wondered that same type of thing. Why didn't God just "beam" them into
Heaven for a while and then send them back after the flood. About the only
thing I can figure is that it is an illustration related to Baptism. The
earth was flooded to rid it of evil, the Israelites went through the sea in
their deliverance from bondage, and believers are Baptized. There are a lot
of old testament stories that show God's plan of salvation through Jesus.

If any here are interested and have a half hour a day that they can listen,
Dr. J. Vernon McGee goes through the entire Bible in 5 years. Allot of the
things that don't seem to make sense get explained.

http://www.ttb.org

Also I found it interesting that the book of Job is the oldest book in the
Bible and there is a lot of insight in it that is way ahead of the time and
agrees with modern science. Such as the world being a sphere, rotating on
it's axis, hanging out in space, etc.
John McArthur has been teaching on this.
http://www.gty.org/

RogerN


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On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:42:46 -0400, Al Patrick wrote:



Supposedly it took Noah 120 years to build that ark and he was preaching/testifying to his
generation at that time. God was giving that generation 120 years to repent of all their
evils, even while knowing beforehand that none of them would. While His judgments may
seem harsh by some standards today He has been quite lenient in dealing with His people,
and those who are not His chosen people.



So you are saying that Noah lived for, well, it would have had to be
more than 120 years, assuimg he was at least 10 years old before his
dad trusted him with the power tools g.


Riiiight....


Perhaps you religion freaks should go preach your bloody nonsense
somewhere else.

Frankly, I can tolerate the political OT **** a whole lot easier than
the religious OT ****...


Morons...
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"Vaughn Simon" wrote in message
...

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...

Don't know whether you're preaching or sharing here, but you're sure
right about being Off Topic.

Do keep the faith, perhaps testify elsewhere please?


I agree with Don's sentiment 100%, but I just wonder why about 10 folks
jumped on RogerN, but most folks who post political **** to rcm get a
pass? To my way of thinking, politics and religion are about equally
offensive here.

Vaughn


I beg to differ. I can accept anyone's bent on religion/God/whatever. I
cannot take anyone's socialist liberal leanings. If that purple lipped big
eared Alfred E Newman gets in there, we're pretty much hosed.

People think Bush was bad. This guy's going to soak it ALL up.

Seeing those children singing Obama songs reminded me of the old black and
white films of the Nazi youth groups who were encouraged to turn in ANYONE,
including their parents.

We're almost there, folks.

Steve


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"Alex B. Graham" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:42:46 -0400, Al Patrick wrote:



Supposedly it took Noah 120 years to build that ark and he was
preaching/testifying to his
generation at that time. God was giving that generation 120 years to
repent of all their
evils, even while knowing beforehand that none of them would. While His
judgments may
seem harsh by some standards today He has been quite lenient in dealing
with His people,
and those who are not His chosen people.



So you are saying that Noah lived for, well, it would have had to be
more than 120 years, assuimg he was at least 10 years old before his
dad trusted him with the power tools g.


Riiiight....


Perhaps you religion freaks should go preach your bloody nonsense
somewhere else.

Frankly, I can tolerate the political OT **** a whole lot easier than
the religious OT ****...


Morons...


I couldn't have said it better.

Harold


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"RogerN" wrote in message
m...

"Harold and Susan Vordos" wrote in message
. net...

"RogerN" wrote in message
m...
Sorry for another OT post but I think this one could be interesting to
some on here. snip---


Not to me. All it does is show you for the simpleton you appear to be.

Where was this God when 500 people died in a 747, hitting the side of a
mountain?


Good question. There is a common mis-conception that the things that
happen on Earth are God's will. When the Disciples asked Jesus to teach
them to pray, part of that prayer was "thy will be done on Earth as it is
in Heaven." We wouldn't need to pray that if God's will was automatically
done on Earth. If Jesus went about doing God's will and healing the sick,
then it would stand to reason that their sickness was not God's will.
Jesus also raised the dead, those deaths must not have been God's will
either. If 500 people die in a 747 hitting the side of a mountain in
Heaven, then it would be God's will, what happens on Earth isn't
necessarily God's will.


Nice job of double talk. Surely, you remember when the 747 did exactly as I
mentioned, killing over 500 people, mostly Japanese? They must have
forgotten to pray (or beg) for mercy.


Where is this God when other people have similar hardships to those you
described, but they didn't receive a windfall in the mail------or didn't
get overtime, but instead maybe lost their jobs, and their house as well,
turning themselves and their young children out in the streets? A rather
vengeful God, wouldn't you say?


Where they trusting God as provider? Sick people that didn't get near
Jesus generally didn't get healed by Jesus. Exceptions being when someone
came to Jesus and asked him to heal someone that was at home sick.


So what you're saying is that your God is a vengeful God, with whom a person
must beg for mercy?


I was born at night, but not last night------I am all too well aware of
the fact that things happen---both good and bad things. Surely you can
remember times when you needed something that could make a big difference
in your life and you didn't get it? Was that God's fault? I think not.

As for these "miracles" you speak of------have you witnessed one? I
haven't----and I've lived more than 69 years now. The idea that the
earth was totally flooded is absurd----the stuff of folklore. Anyone
can fabricate a tall tale-----and reading something in print doesn't make
it true. Ever considered the idea that the Bible was written by
charlatans with less than honorable purposes in mind? Like stealing your
mind and your possessions? Surely you have seen the horrible atrocities
committed by man in the name of God? They're happening right now, in
Afghanistan and Iraq.


Yes, I've had miracles happen to me and also witnessed them happening to
others. Nothing as good as someone being brought back from the dead but
definately miracles.


Can you describe these "miracles"?

However I've been living 45 years now and have traveled probably a
million miles but I've never seen the statue of liberty, should I assume
it doesn't exist? Should I assume all the witnesses that have seen the
statue of liberty are simpletons and just making stuff up because they
want me to believe that there is a statue of liberty?


Bad example, one of which you should be ashamed.

Do not play mind games with me.

The Statue of Liberty is well documented and visible. It is there for me,
or anyone, to examine. You can not claim the same thing for your God, nor
can you find a majority of people that agree with your assessment. You
can't even provide a shred of evidence there is a God-----you have ONLY your
belief that there is. That's not good enough. I've known people that think
there's a tooth fairy, too, but I have my doubts.

Someone testifying to me that they have seen the Statue of Liberty has
nothing to gain by having me believe them, or not. You can't make the same
claim with your example. Quite the contrary, people like you have bilked
the masses out of their possessions and minds as long as time has existed,
using their personal connection with the god of their choosing as the pry
bar. You have an agenda-----the guy that may have seen the Statue likely
has not, and has little to gain.


Mind you, I have no doubt that the people that reported the "flood"
experienced one----their region most assuredly got flooded. But----the
entire earth? Utter nonsense.

Show me proof.

Mean time----try posting nonsense such as yours where it belongs-----not
on a forum dedicated to mechanical work. Leave your religious views at
the curb-----do not push them on others.



If the Bible is true


Yeah! IF. What evidence do you have to support that it is? None of us
can be held responsible for your chosen beliefs, nor should we be held
hostage by them.

Polite people don't put their religious beliefs on others. Trust me---- I
know. I was born and raised in Utah, where the natives consider it their
eternal duty to annoy anyone that does not belong to their faith.

and if a post might encourage
someone to check it out and see that what's in the Bible still happens
today, then perhaps it could do someone some good.


Not on this forum. Park your bible at the curb. If you do not, you will
readily wear out your welcome. If I must tolerate your dribble, then I must
also tolerate the dribble of other sects and "religions". I don't need
that in my life. Would you welcome my posting on a site of your choosing,
trying to steer you away from religion, perhaps to join those of us that are
agnostic? I think not, and I think you'd be highly offended---just as I
am. Knock it off, moron.

A man I know had a
mother that was dying of cancer (before she had him), the Doctors sent her
home to die as they could not do anything for her. His father heard that
there was a man that prayed for people and they got healed. The father
sent for this person and he came and prayed for this woman that was nearly
dead. The woman got up and the cancer mass fell off of her body. That's
the kind of thing we could use today. If his father had never heard of
anyone that prayed for the sick with results then the woman would have
died like thousands of others do.


And you know this woman? You witnessed the cancer "fall off her body"?
I don't think I've ever encountered a religious person that hasn't a tale in
keeping with yours. Problem is, everyone that tells the tale refers to a
third party, one that is never available to prove the claim.

Sound familiar? I know a guy that knows a guy that knows a guy that has a
car that runs on water. All you do is drop this little pill in the tank and
fill it up with the garden hose. The oil industry killed him, though, to
keep the pill off the market so they could keep selling gas.

Did you ever find the guy with the pill?

Didn't think so.

Remember me telling you that words don't do it for me? Not calling you a
liar----just a badly misinformed, misguided, gullible individual that is
prime pray for the charlatans of "religion". They can't get their hooks in
guys like you fast enough. Strangely, such people can see evidence that
can't be refuted that conflicts with what they want to believe, and
conveniently discount the evidence, secure in their little fairytale world.
Not me. Show me (us) proof ---real proof, not the inane tales you've
provided thus far----, or quit wasting the time of the readers of this
forum.

Harold





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"Ignoramus3071" wrote in message
...
On 2008-10-26, RogerN wrote:
that wouldn't run out, etc. A new testament example is Jesus feeding

5000
men plus women and children with only a few fish and loaves. Yes, I

know

Linux is the modern equivalent of that, giving goodness to millions
for free.

I used to be an agnostic, but by now I made up my mind and am an
atheist.

i


That is ample proof you are a man with the ability to reason, unlike the
original poster. He's a man who is a believer. Not surprisingly, he is able
to find more than adequate proof to support whatever it is he believes. It
always works that way though.

Hawke


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that wouldn't run out, etc. A new testament example is Jesus feeding
5000
men plus women and children with only a few fish and loaves. Yes, I

know

Linux is the modern equivalent of that, giving goodness to millions
for free.


Yeah, Linux is good stuff, I wish I knew it better. I have a lathe that I
run EMC2 on that uses Linux. If I can get my Windows PC's to share files,
I'll be able to transfer CNC files over wireless network to the lathe. I
have a CNC Bridgeport that I want to convert to Linux EMC2 next.

I remember you writing some files (scripts?) to give you coordinates to

turn
your handwheels and getting circular interpolation, etc., on your manual
mill. If I remember correctly you were starting to look at the

possibility
of motorizing some of the Axis' and looking at EMC2. Just wondering if

you
went any further with that?

I used to be an agnostic, but by now I made up my mind and am an
atheist.

i


Gee Iggy, did I help you make up your mind? Glad to help... I guess. I
enjoy most of your posts Iggy, if I get to Heaven and you end up in Hell
I'll ask God if I can send you an Ice Cream bar, what kind do you like?

:-)

RogerN



Where did you get the idea that anyone eats after they are dead?


Hawke


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"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 23:04:30 -0500, Ignoramus3071
wrote:

On 2008-10-26, RogerN wrote:
that wouldn't run out, etc. A new testament example is Jesus feeding

5000
men plus women and children with only a few fish and loaves. Yes, I

know

Linux is the modern equivalent of that, giving goodness to millions
for free.

I used to be an agnostic, but by now I made up my mind and am an
atheist.

i


Atheism, just another faith based belief system.


Gunner


Just another ignorant comment from someone who doesn't know jack about
Atheism. If he did he'd know that not believing in a religion is not a
belief system based on faith.

Hawke



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On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 16:50:23 -0600, "David R.Birch"
wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 23:04:30 -0500, Ignoramus3071
wrote:

On 2008-10-26, RogerN wrote:
that wouldn't run out, etc. A new testament example is Jesus feeding 5000
men plus women and children with only a few fish and loaves. Yes, I know
Linux is the modern equivalent of that, giving goodness to millions
for free.

I used to be an agnostic, but by now I made up my mind and am an
atheist.

i


Atheism, just another faith based belief system.


Gunner


Which is why I'm an agnostic pantheist.

Except on Leap Day.

Then I'm a pantheistic agnostic.

David



Bravo! A thinking man indeed!

Gunner

Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.
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On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 04:53:58 GMT, "Harold and Susan Vordos"
wrote:


"Alex B. Graham" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 19:42:46 -0400, Al Patrick wrote:



Supposedly it took Noah 120 years to build that ark and he was
preaching/testifying to his
generation at that time. God was giving that generation 120 years to
repent of all their
evils, even while knowing beforehand that none of them would. While His
judgments may
seem harsh by some standards today He has been quite lenient in dealing
with His people,
and those who are not His chosen people.



So you are saying that Noah lived for, well, it would have had to be
more than 120 years, assuimg he was at least 10 years old before his
dad trusted him with the power tools g.


Riiiight....


Perhaps you religion freaks should go preach your bloody nonsense
somewhere else.

Frankly, I can tolerate the political OT **** a whole lot easier than
the religious OT ****...


Morons...


I couldn't have said it better.

Harold

LIberalism IS the religion of half the Leftists here.
Marxism covers the other half.

So why dont the Liberals go run along and **** off?

Gunner, Buddhist


Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.


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On Sun, 26 Oct 2008 20:24:21 -0800, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas
wrote:


"Vaughn Simon" wrote in message
...

"Don Foreman" wrote in message
...

Don't know whether you're preaching or sharing here, but you're sure
right about being Off Topic.

Do keep the faith, perhaps testify elsewhere please?


I agree with Don's sentiment 100%, but I just wonder why about 10 folks
jumped on RogerN, but most folks who post political **** to rcm get a
pass? To my way of thinking, politics and religion are about equally
offensive here.

Vaughn


I beg to differ. I can accept anyone's bent on religion/God/whatever. I
cannot take anyone's socialist liberal leanings. If that purple lipped big
eared Alfred E Newman gets in there, we're pretty much hosed.

People think Bush was bad. This guy's going to soak it ALL up.

Seeing those children singing Obama songs reminded me of the old black and
white films of the Nazi youth groups who were encouraged to turn in ANYONE,
including their parents.

We're almost there, folks.

Steve

Nazisim, like Liberalism, is nothing more than a totalitarian
personality cult.

Oh looky! A greek temple!!

http://www.thirdreichruins.com/ParteiTag1.jpg


Wikipedia, 2043

"The primary aspect of the Democrat Rallies was to strengthen the
personality cult of Barrack Obama, portraying Obama as Americas
saviour, chosen by providence. The gathered masses listened to the
Massias speeches, swore loyalty and marched before him. Representing
the Volksgemeinschaft as a whole, the rallies served to demonstrate
the might of the Liberal people. The visitors of the rallies by their
own free will were subordinate to the discipline and order in which
they should be reborn as a new people."





Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.
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Which begs the question....Why did such an omnipotent god need to go
through the drill of the great flood when a snap of the fingers
(figuratively) would have wiped out the entire population of the Earth
except Noah's family? Why have Noah build an ark when a snap of the
fingers would have made it appear?


I wondered that same type of thing. Why didn't God just "beam" them into
Heaven for a while and then send them back after the flood. About the

only
thing I can figure is that it is an illustration related to Baptism. The
earth was flooded to rid it of evil, the Israelites went through the sea

in
their deliverance from bondage, and believers are Baptized. There are a

lot
of old testament stories that show God's plan of salvation through Jesus.

If any here are interested and have a half hour a day that they can

listen,
Dr. J. Vernon McGee goes through the entire Bible in 5 years. Allot of

the
things that don't seem to make sense get explained.

http://www.ttb.org

Also I found it interesting that the book of Job is the oldest book in the
Bible and there is a lot of insight in it that is way ahead of the time

and
agrees with modern science. Such as the world being a sphere, rotating on
it's axis, hanging out in space, etc.
John McArthur has been teaching on this.
http://www.gty.org/

RogerN



I think teaching is using the wrong word. I think what you should have said
is on this site John McArthur is spreading misinformation and fantasies.


Hawke


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"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message
...

People think Bush was bad...


Yep, that is exactly the type of disgusting post I was talking about. Thanks
for the example.

Vaughn


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On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 00:17:20 GMT, the infamous "Vaughn Simon"
scrawled the following:


"Don Foreman" wrote in message
.. .

Don't know whether you're preaching or sharing here, but you're sure
right about being Off Topic.

Do keep the faith, perhaps testify elsewhere please?


I agree with Don's sentiment 100%, but I just wonder why about 10 folks
jumped on RogerN, but most folks who post political **** to rcm get a pass? To
my way of thinking, politics and religion are about equally offensive here.


Simple: Politics is a semi-necessary evil. Religion isn't. (Necessary,
that is.)

--
All national institutions of churches, whether Jewish, Christian,
or Turkish, appear to me no other than human inventions, set up
to terrify and enslave mankind, and monopolize power and profit.
--Thomas Paine
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Alex B. Graham wrote:

Perhaps you religion freaks should go preach your bloody nonsense
somewhere else.

Frankly, I can tolerate the political OT **** a whole lot easier than
the religious OT ****...


Morons...


Perhaps you should go peddle your anti-God propaganda elsewhere??? :-)

Those who preach "tolerance" the greatest are often the ones with no tolerance. They want
people to be tolerant of them but they don't chose to be tolerant toward others. Shame!
Shame!


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Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:


So what you're saying is that your God is a vengeful God, with whom a person
must beg for mercy?


Romans 12:19 "....Vengeance is mine; I will repay, saith the Lord."
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Harold and Susan Vordos wrote:
Not me. Show me (us) proof ---real proof, not the inane tales you've
provided thus far----, or quit wasting the time of the readers of this
forum.

Harold


Harold, youre "From Missouri". I can tell, so am I :-)
...lew...
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I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that "David R.Birch"
wrote on Sun, 26 Oct 2008 16:50:23 -0600 in
rec.crafts.metalworking :
Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 23:04:30 -0500, Ignoramus3071
wrote:

On 2008-10-26, RogerN wrote:
that wouldn't run out, etc. A new testament example is Jesus feeding 5000
men plus women and children with only a few fish and loaves. Yes, I know
Linux is the modern equivalent of that, giving goodness to millions
for free.

I used to be an agnostic, but by now I made up my mind and am an
atheist.

i


Atheism, just another faith based belief system.


Gunner


Which is why I'm an agnostic pantheist.

Except on Leap Day.

Then I'm a pantheistic agnostic.

David


Have you considered Slag-Blah? It is a philosophy of militant
agnosticism "We don't know, and you don't either!" Because so many
religions contradict the others, they give each religion it's own day
when those Doctrines reign supreme.
It does cause some problems, the calendar is some 17,823 days long
- and they only get paid once a year. But you're vested in the
pension plan after the first quarter.


cheers
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"I had just been through hell and must have looked like death warmed
over walking into the saloon, because when I asked the bartender
whether they served zombies he said, ‘Sure, what'll you have?'"
from I Hear America Swinging by Peter DeVries
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On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 07:59:22 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

I missed the Staff meeting, but the Memos showed that "David R.Birch"
wrote on Sun, 26 Oct 2008 16:50:23 -0600 in
rec.crafts.metalworking :
Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 25 Oct 2008 23:04:30 -0500, Ignoramus3071
wrote:

On 2008-10-26, RogerN wrote:
that wouldn't run out, etc. A new testament example is Jesus feeding 5000
men plus women and children with only a few fish and loaves. Yes, I know
Linux is the modern equivalent of that, giving goodness to millions
for free.

I used to be an agnostic, but by now I made up my mind and am an
atheist.

i

Atheism, just another faith based belief system.


Gunner


Which is why I'm an agnostic pantheist.

Except on Leap Day.

Then I'm a pantheistic agnostic.

David


Have you considered Slag-Blah? It is a philosophy of militant
agnosticism "We don't know, and you don't either!" Because so many
religions contradict the others, they give each religion it's own day
when those Doctrines reign supreme.
It does cause some problems, the calendar is some 17,823 days long
- and they only get paid once a year. But you're vested in the
pension plan after the first quarter.


cheers
pyotr



Where do I sign up??

Gunner

Whenever a Liberal utters the term "Common Sense approach"....grab your
wallet, your ass, and your guns because the sombitch is about to do
something damned nasty to all three of them.
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On Mon, 27 Oct 2008 09:18:47 -0400, Al Patrick wrote:



Those who preach "tolerance" the greatest are often the ones with no tolerance. They want
people to be tolerant of them but they don't chose to be tolerant toward others. Shame!
Shame!



Pre-****ing-cisely...

Now **** off...


PLONK
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