FWIW, there are two eBay sellers offering these double-ended turning-facing
(threading?) toolholders presently.

HHip and tools4cheap are offering these holders with inserts for $44/45 plus
shipping.
I would expect that these tools are China imports, so expect that the
dovetail dimensions may differ on these generic/cloned parts.

The holder type-number for this particular style of holders is type 16 or
16* with a suffix letter, as a RCM participant with a genuine Aloris holder
had informed me of, when I had asked about the toolholder in a posting quite
some time ago.

A number of years ago, hhip was the only seller that I could find that was
listing these holders, then afer a while, there wasn't anyone that I could
find offering them for sale.

In case there might be anyone that's buying tooling these days that doesn't
already know, the fit/quality of "interchangeable" parts from China (or
India) is often fairly poor.

WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html

On 2008-09-30, Wild_Bill wrote:
FWIW, there are two eBay sellers offering these double-ended turning-facing
(threading?) toolholders presently.

HHip and tools4cheap are offering these holders with inserts for $44/45 plus
shipping.
I would expect that these tools are China imports, so expect that the
dovetail dimensions may differ on these generic/cloned parts.

They may. If the toolpost in question is a wedge style, it
generally has sufficient range to grip well anyway -- just a bit more
travel of the locking lever.

However, if it is a piston style, it may be that the piston does
not have sufficient travel to properly lock.

The holder type-number for this particular style of holders is type 16 or
16* with a suffix letter,

The 16N is the only one which I know of. That one has the
insert pocket sloped properly for a negative-rake insert, and with the
proper insert you can get six different cutting points from it by
flipping the insert over after the first three are worn -- as long as
you haven't hit anything hard enough to break off the point. :-)

as a RCM participant with a genuine Aloris holder
had informed me of, when I had asked about the toolholder in a posting quite
some time ago.

A number of years ago, hhip was the only seller that I could find that was
listing these holders,

You mean the only eBay seller? MSC has stocked the genuine
Aloris ones for a long time now. (Granted -- they cost a lot more than
the price which you mentioned. But at that time, I could not find any
eBay auctions for used ones which were not closing within 10% of the new
price from MSC, so I went to MSC.

Also - there is another accuracy factor to consider -- the
height of the pockets. Yes, you can adjust for a pocket too high or too
low -- but if the two pockets are not the same height, you will have to
re-adjust the height every time you switch from turning to facing
position or back. One of the benefits of the genuine ones is that you
*don't* have to touch the height adjustment when switching between
positions -- assuming that you have the same type of inserts on both
ends.

then afer a while, there wasn't anyone that I could
find offering them for sale.

In case there might be anyone that's buying tooling these days that doesn't
already know, the fit/quality of "interchangeable" parts from China (or
India) is often fairly poor.

Indeed so. Did you purchase either of these? And if so, what
quality did you find?

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Hi DoN, I was thinking it may have been you that told me about the Aloris
type 16N holder, and I think you have a BXA or larger than the AXA/100
series toolpost.
IIRC, the genuine Aloris holder cost was near $200 at the time, $170 now at
MSC.

The orientation of the inserts on the generic imports is different than the
genuine Aloris.

The tools4cheap seller is offering the larger holders, and their website
prices are lower than their eBay store prices, although shipping costs may
vary.
http://www.tools4cheap.net/products.php?cat=9

I haven't purchased either of the holders that I mentioned earlier.. I've
been looking at tools4cheap and some other sellers for 3C collets, a
MT3-to-C3 adapter, and some other items.
I haven't used carbide cutting tools on my wimpy machines, so these
toolholders might not be useful to me until I get a better lathe, whenever
that might happen.
HHip states that the included inserts (AXA type 16E) are TCMT-3(2.5)1-HF.
Tools4cheap states his AXA inserts are tcmt16t308 (according to his
supplier).

What you said about the insert height being precise on both ends is a wise
caution, since a lot of the cloned parts are often roughly-finished raw
materials which require finishing or else they're just miserable to use
(like the extremely poor quality HF/India AXA kit was, before I replaced it
by buying Phase II wedge and a piston models).

WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2008-09-30, Wild_Bill wrote:
FWIW, there are two eBay sellers offering these double-ended
turning-facing
(threading?) toolholders presently.

HHip and tools4cheap are offering these holders with inserts for $44/45
plus
shipping.
I would expect that these tools are China imports, so expect that the
dovetail dimensions may differ on these generic/cloned parts.

They may. If the toolpost in question is a wedge style, it
generally has sufficient range to grip well anyway -- just a bit more
travel of the locking lever.

However, if it is a piston style, it may be that the piston does
not have sufficient travel to properly lock.

The holder type-number for this particular style of holders is type 16 or
16* with a suffix letter,

The 16N is the only one which I know of. That one has the
insert pocket sloped properly for a negative-rake insert, and with the
proper insert you can get six different cutting points from it by
flipping the insert over after the first three are worn -- as long as
you haven't hit anything hard enough to break off the point. :-)

as a RCM participant with a genuine Aloris
holder
had informed me of, when I had asked about the toolholder in a posting
quite
some time ago.

A number of years ago, hhip was the only seller that I could find that
was
listing these holders,

You mean the only eBay seller? MSC has stocked the genuine
Aloris ones for a long time now. (Granted -- they cost a lot more than
the price which you mentioned. But at that time, I could not find any
eBay auctions for used ones which were not closing within 10% of the new
price from MSC, so I went to MSC.

Also - there is another accuracy factor to consider -- the
height of the pockets. Yes, you can adjust for a pocket too high or too
low -- but if the two pockets are not the same height, you will have to
re-adjust the height every time you switch from turning to facing
position or back. One of the benefits of the genuine ones is that you
*don't* have to touch the height adjustment when switching between
positions -- assuming that you have the same type of inserts on both
ends.

then afer a while, there wasn't anyone that I
could
find offering them for sale.

In case there might be anyone that's buying tooling these days that
doesn't
already know, the fit/quality of "interchangeable" parts from China (or
India) is often fairly poor.

Indeed so. Did you purchase either of these? And if so, what
quality did you find?

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2008-10-01, Wild_Bill wrote:
Hi DoN, I was thinking it may have been you that told me about the Aloris
type 16N holder, and I think you have a BXA or larger than the AXA/100
series toolpost.

Correct on both points.

IIRC, the genuine Aloris holder cost was near $200 at the time, $170 now at
MSC.

Hmm ... I paid $116.63 for my Aloris BXA 16N. This was from
MSC, but back in early 2003

The orientation of the inserts on the generic imports is different than the
genuine Aloris.

The tools4cheap seller is offering the larger holders, and their website
prices are lower than their eBay store prices, although shipping costs may
vary.
http://www.tools4cheap.net/products.php?cat=9

Oh! That one is very different from mine. Mine has the cutting
edge parallel to the mounting face of the toolpost instead of at 60
degrees as this one has -- and larger inserts too. I don't see any clue
that this has the carbide anvils under the inserts, either. I would not
touch it, personally.

I haven't purchased either of the holders that I mentioned earlier.. I've
been looking at tools4cheap and some other sellers for 3C collets, a
MT3-to-C3 adapter, and some other items.
I haven't used carbide cutting tools on my wimpy machines, so these
toolholders might not be useful to me until I get a better lathe, whenever
that might happen.
HHip states that the included inserts (AXA type 16E) are TCMT-3(2.5)1-HF.
Tools4cheap states his AXA inserts are tcmt16t308 (according to his
supplier).

Hmm ... the proper one for the BXA-16N is the TNMG-322 (I'm
using MSC's part number 07080062, though I have older ones which are not
TiN coated, and also not as sharp.) The AXA-16N uses a smaller size,
and presumably the CXA-16N uses larger. This is another bad point for
this particular dealer of yours (tool4cheap) -- where the same insert
size fits all three.

What you said about the insert height being precise on both ends is a wise
caution, since a lot of the cloned parts are often roughly-finished raw
materials which require finishing or else they're just miserable to use
(like the extremely poor quality HF/India AXA kit was, before I replaced it
by buying Phase II wedge and a piston models).

I think a good reason to avoid both of your cheap eBay vendors.

Hmm ... looking at the photo on the page devoted to the BXA
size, I do see what looks like an anvil under the insert. Hmm ... going
back to the AXA size, I guess that there may be one. But I still don't
like the angle of the insert. It makes you have to rotate the toolpost
to turn up to a shoulder and then face the shoulder. The CA clearly has
the anvil, but the whole insert and support are too small for the lathe.
CXA also has it.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

I appreciate you taking the time to add your additional comments, DoN.

You observations are always appreciated.

WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2008-10-01, Wild_Bill wrote:
Hi DoN, I was thinking it may have been you that told me about the Aloris
type 16N holder, and I think you have a BXA or larger than the AXA/100
series toolpost.

Correct on both points.

IIRC, the genuine Aloris holder cost was near $200 at the time, $170 now
at
MSC.

Hmm ... I paid $116.63 for my Aloris BXA 16N. This was from
MSC, but back in early 2003

The orientation of the inserts on the generic imports is different than
the
genuine Aloris.

The tools4cheap seller is offering the larger holders, and their website
prices are lower than their eBay store prices, although shipping costs
may
vary.
http://www.tools4cheap.net/products.php?cat=9

Oh! That one is very different from mine. Mine has the cutting
edge parallel to the mounting face of the toolpost instead of at 60
degrees as this one has -- and larger inserts too. I don't see any clue
that this has the carbide anvils under the inserts, either. I would not
touch it, personally.

I haven't purchased either of the holders that I mentioned earlier.. I've
been looking at tools4cheap and some other sellers for 3C collets, a
MT3-to-C3 adapter, and some other items.
I haven't used carbide cutting tools on my wimpy machines, so these
toolholders might not be useful to me until I get a better lathe,
whenever
that might happen.
HHip states that the included inserts (AXA type 16E) are TCMT-3(2.5)1-HF.
Tools4cheap states his AXA inserts are tcmt16t308 (according to his
supplier).

Hmm ... the proper one for the BXA-16N is the TNMG-322 (I'm
using MSC's part number 07080062, though I have older ones which are not
TiN coated, and also not as sharp.) The AXA-16N uses a smaller size,
and presumably the CXA-16N uses larger. This is another bad point for
this particular dealer of yours (tool4cheap) -- where the same insert
size fits all three.

What you said about the insert height being precise on both ends is a
wise
caution, since a lot of the cloned parts are often roughly-finished raw
materials which require finishing or else they're just miserable to use
(like the extremely poor quality HF/India AXA kit was, before I replaced
it
by buying Phase II wedge and a piston models).

I think a good reason to avoid both of your cheap eBay vendors.

Hmm ... looking at the photo on the page devoted to the BXA
size, I do see what looks like an anvil under the insert. Hmm ... going
back to the AXA size, I guess that there may be one. But I still don't
like the angle of the insert. It makes you have to rotate the toolpost
to turn up to a shoulder and then face the shoulder. The CA clearly has
the anvil, but the whole insert and support are too small for the lathe.
CXA also has it.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---