I was rather surprised to see some rather nice looking wire rope terminators
at Harbor Freight this weekend, like so:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=97599
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=96892
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=96900

And, at less than $10 each, it's quite the bargain for stainless. But
does anyone else make these sorts of things at such reaonable prices? I know
Sta-Lok makes them for architectural and marine use, but they're seriously
pricey. Same goes for the ones McMaster carries. I'd really like to find
something fairly close to the same price range so I know where to source such
things affordably other than just Harbor Freight, but I haven't had any luck
after a decent bout of web searching. Any suggestions for retailers?

Try http://www.awdirect.com/
Tow truck supplier.

I don't kniow what the tensile rating is of the chuck joint, but I bet
it's nowhere near that of a properly swaged coupling.
JR
Dweller in the cellar

On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 02:58:08 GMT, The Hurdy Gurdy Man
wrote:


I was rather surprised to see some rather nice looking wire rope terminators
at Harbor Freight this weekend, like so:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=97599
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=96892
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=96900

And, at less than $10 each, it's quite the bargain for stainless. But
does anyone else make these sorts of things at such reaonable prices? I know
Sta-Lok makes them for architectural and marine use, but they're seriously
pricey. Same goes for the ones McMaster carries. I'd really like to find
something fairly close to the same price range so I know where to source such
things affordably other than just Harbor Freight, but I haven't had any luck
after a decent bout of web searching. Any suggestions for retailers?
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."

On Sep 8, 10:58*pm, The Hurdy Gurdy Man
wrote:
I was rather surprised to see some rather nice looking wire rope terminators
at Harbor Freight this weekend, like so:

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=96900

And, at less than $10 each, it's quite the bargain for stainless. *But
does anyone else make these sorts of things at such reaonable prices? *I know
Sta-Lok makes them for architectural and marine use, but they're seriously
pricey. *Same goes for the ones McMaster carries. *I'd really like to find
something fairly close to the same price range so I know where to source such
things affordably other than just Harbor Freight, but I haven't had any luck
after a decent bout of web searching. *Any suggestions for retailers?

I bought one, couldn't find 5/32" wire rope in the junk pile so tried
it on 3/16", and messed up the weak spring that holds the clamp jaws.
Now the jaws don't stay in place so I haven't been able to test it for
strength.

On Sep 8, 10:58*pm, The Hurdy Gurdy Man
wrote:
I was rather surprised to see some rather nice looking wire rope terminators
at Harbor Freight this weekend, like so:


I would tend to shy away from those in favor of properly swaged
couplings. They don't seem to have a very high load rating. I have
seen (somewhere, don't remember off the top of my head) a company that
sold protective/decorative "boots" for swaged couplings that concealed
and protected them.

On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:48:48 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, JR
North quickly quoth:

I don't kniow what the tensile rating is of the chuck joint, but I bet
it's nowhere near that of a properly swaged coupling.

2,680 pounds weight capacity. I wonder if you're supposed to divide
that by the 4mm opening, which would cut it to 422 lbs. Still, that'd
hold a couple large guys standing on one strand of the railing wire.

--
Music washes away from the soul the dust of everyday life.
---- --Unknown

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:48:48 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, JR
North quickly quoth:

I don't kniow what the tensile rating is of the chuck joint, but I bet
it's nowhere near that of a properly swaged coupling.

2,680 pounds weight capacity. I wonder if you're supposed to divide
that by the 4mm opening, which would cut it to 422 lbs. Still, that'd
hold a couple large guys standing on one strand of the railing wire.

Actually, no. When applying force perpendicular to a tight wire, the force
multiplies by a large factor. In a pinch, you can winch a vehicle out of a
tight spot by tightly tying a rope between the vehicle and a tree and
applying force perpendicular to the middle of the rope. Needless to say you
have to take up the slack between each push on the rope.

Ivan Vegvary

Jim Wilkins wrote:

I bought one, couldn't find 5/32" wire rope in the junk pile so tried
it on 3/16", and messed up the weak spring that holds the clamp jaws.
Now the jaws don't stay in place so I haven't been able to test it for
strength.

So it sounds like they're about par for the course with most Harbor Freight
items. I am mostly looking at them for some purely cosmetic applications,
nothing where any sort of significant load would be applied. If safety
were a factor I would absolutely look elsewhere, but at the moment I'm just
tryin to find something that's "pretty" and not terribly expensive with
perhaps some better quality than what Harbor Freight is normally known for.
I really like the Sta-Lok ones, but the price is just way too high (although
the quality is most likely there).

On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:48:49 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ivan
Vegvary" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:48:48 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, JR
North quickly quoth:

I don't kniow what the tensile rating is of the chuck joint, but I bet
it's nowhere near that of a properly swaged coupling.

2,680 pounds weight capacity. I wonder if you're supposed to divide
that by the 4mm opening, which would cut it to 422 lbs. Still, that'd
hold a couple large guys standing on one strand of the railing wire.

Actually, no. When applying force perpendicular to a tight wire, the force
multiplies by a large factor. In a pinch, you can winch a vehicle out of a
tight spot by tightly tying a rope between the vehicle and a tree and
applying force perpendicular to the middle of the rope. Needless to say you
have to take up the slack between each push on the rope.

I don't grok that, Ivan. A pull on the middle of the rope would be
equal on all 3 ends, wouldn't it? Even if it were a nice round pulley,
it would not give you any force increase. The individual snatch
blocks (pulley with a hook) we used on the tow trucks (at Flynn's
Frame and Collision eons ago) would only give us the -same- pull the
winch had, but it would be at a different angle, better for that
particular extraction. Multiple pulleys (forming a block and tackle)
would multiply the force.

If you still disagree, please cite the formula/law for us.

For S&G, I asked the question to the guys at Feeney, the Cable Rail
people. I'll post their answer if/when I get one.

--
"Most Folks Are As Happy As They Make Up Their Minds To Be"
-Abraham Lincoln
-----------------------------------------------------------

On 2008-09-10, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:48:49 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ivan
Vegvary" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:48:48 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, JR
North quickly quoth:

I don't kniow what the tensile rating is of the chuck joint, but I bet
it's nowhere near that of a properly swaged coupling.

2,680 pounds weight capacity. I wonder if you're supposed to divide
that by the 4mm opening, which would cut it to 422 lbs. Still, that'd
hold a couple large guys standing on one strand of the railing wire.

Actually, no. When applying force perpendicular to a tight wire, the force
multiplies by a large factor. In a pinch, you can winch a vehicle out of a
tight spot by tightly tying a rope between the vehicle and a tree and
applying force perpendicular to the middle of the rope. Needless to say you
have to take up the slack between each push on the rope.

I don't grok that, Ivan. A pull on the middle of the rope would be
equal on all 3 ends, wouldn't it?

No.

Try an experiment, you will need two pulleys.

i

Even if it were a nice round pulley,
it would not give you any force increase. The individual snatch
blocks (pulley with a hook) we used on the tow trucks (at Flynn's
Frame and Collision eons ago) would only give us the -same- pull the
winch had, but it would be at a different angle, better for that
particular extraction. Multiple pulleys (forming a block and tackle)
would multiply the force.

If you still disagree, please cite the formula/law for us.

For S&G, I asked the question to the guys at Feeney, the Cable Rail
people. I'll post their answer if/when I get one.


--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
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On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 20:00:50 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:48:49 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ivan
Vegvary" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:48:48 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, JR
North quickly quoth:

I don't kniow what the tensile rating is of the chuck joint, but I bet
it's nowhere near that of a properly swaged coupling.

2,680 pounds weight capacity. I wonder if you're supposed to divide
that by the 4mm opening, which would cut it to 422 lbs. Still, that'd
hold a couple large guys standing on one strand of the railing wire.

Actually, no. When applying force perpendicular to a tight wire, the force
multiplies by a large factor. In a pinch, you can winch a vehicle out of a
tight spot by tightly tying a rope between the vehicle and a tree and
applying force perpendicular to the middle of the rope. Needless to say you
have to take up the slack between each push on the rope.

I don't grok that, Ivan. A pull on the middle of the rope would be
equal on all 3 ends, wouldn't it? Even if it were a nice round pulley,
it would not give you any force increase. The individual snatch
blocks (pulley with a hook) we used on the tow trucks (at Flynn's
Frame and Collision eons ago) would only give us the -same- pull the
winch had, but it would be at a different angle, better for that
particular extraction. Multiple pulleys (forming a block and tackle)
would multiply the force.

If you still disagree, please cite the formula/law for us.

Ivan is right, and the easiest way to grok that is to make a vector
diagram of the forces involved.

Suppose you have a stretched, fairly straight rope and then hang a
weight at the middle of it. The rope stretches a bit, so you get an
angle. The downward force on the weight is counteracted by an upward
force, or you wouldn't have equilibrium.

That upward force is the resultant force of two force vectors, one
along each side of the rope.

Draw the diagram and you will see for yourself how huge the force
along the robe gets with even a little force downwards.

S.


For S&G, I asked the question to the guys at Feeney, the Cable Rail
people. I'll post their answer if/when I get one.

On Sep 9, 11:00*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:48:49 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ivan
Vegvary" quickly quoth:

I don't grok that, Ivan. *A pull on the middle of the rope would be
equal on all 3 ends, wouldn't it?

The pull he's talking about is at right angles, like plucking a guitar
string.

On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:29:46 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus15131 quickly quoth:

On 2008-09-10, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:48:49 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ivan
Vegvary" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:48:48 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, JR
North quickly quoth:

I don't kniow what the tensile rating is of the chuck joint, but I bet
it's nowhere near that of a properly swaged coupling.

2,680 pounds weight capacity. I wonder if you're supposed to divide
that by the 4mm opening, which would cut it to 422 lbs. Still, that'd
hold a couple large guys standing on one strand of the railing wire.

Actually, no. When applying force perpendicular to a tight wire, the force
multiplies by a large factor. In a pinch, you can winch a vehicle out of a
tight spot by tightly tying a rope between the vehicle and a tree and
applying force perpendicular to the middle of the rope. Needless to say you
have to take up the slack between each push on the rope.

I don't grok that, Ivan. A pull on the middle of the rope would be
equal on all 3 ends, wouldn't it?

No.

Try an experiment, you will need two pulleys.

"Try an experiment, you will need a block and tackle."

NOT the same as he was talking about, Ig.

--
"Most Folks Are As Happy As They Make Up Their Minds To Be"
-Abraham Lincoln
-----------------------------------------------------------

When applying force perpendicular to a tight wire, the force
multiplies by a large factor.

I don't grok that, Ivan. *A pull on the middle of the rope would be
equal on all 3 ends, wouldn't it?

No, this is not a simple straight line mechanics problem of pulleys
acting as levers, it's a vector addition problem. When you pull the
rope out of line at the center, the component of tension perpendicular
at each end of the main rope has to be very high to match the small
component needed to offset the sideways pull, and this approaches
infinity the tighter the main rope gets.

As soon as you begin to pull the main rope out of a striaght line, all
the angles change and your advantage goes way down. This is not
something you can do for a sustained pull, it's a game of inches.
Pull, retension to shrink the angles again, repeat, ad nauseum.

--Glenn Lyford

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:48:49 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ivan
Vegvary" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:48:48 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, JR
North quickly quoth:

I don't kniow what the tensile rating is of the chuck joint, but I bet
it's nowhere near that of a properly swaged coupling.

2,680 pounds weight capacity. I wonder if you're supposed to divide
that by the 4mm opening, which would cut it to 422 lbs. Still, that'd
hold a couple large guys standing on one strand of the railing wire.

Actually, no. When applying force perpendicular to a tight wire, the
force
multiplies by a large factor. In a pinch, you can winch a vehicle out of
a
tight spot by tightly tying a rope between the vehicle and a tree and
applying force perpendicular to the middle of the rope. Needless to say
you
have to take up the slack between each push on the rope.

I don't grok that, Ivan. A pull on the middle of the rope would be
equal on all 3 ends, wouldn't it? Even if it were a nice round pulley,
it would not give you any force increase. The individual snatch
blocks (pulley with a hook) we used on the tow trucks (at Flynn's
Frame and Collision eons ago) would only give us the -same- pull the
winch had, but it would be at a different angle, better for that
particular extraction. Multiple pulleys (forming a block and tackle)
would multiply the force.

If you still disagree, please cite the formula/law for us.

Larry, picture this.
You have a horizontal cable, say 100 feet long between two fixed points. In
the middle you hang a 50 pound weight. Going to one end, you try to tighten
the cable as much as possible in order to raise the weight and take all the
sag out of the cable. Impossible. It would take infinite amount of force
to make that cable truly horizontal since it has no vertical component
(needs to lift 50 pounds) of force. Accordingly if you were able to
tighten an unloaded cable (impossible, since it due to its weight it will
hang in a catenary shape) to a horizontal plane, a force in the middle will
induce an untold amount of tension in the cable. Of course, as soon as the
cable begins the develop sag the tensile force diminishes.

The whole point is that in cabled barriers, if the cable is extremely tight,
my stepping on the middle with my 280# of force, will induce tremendous
stress in the cable and connections.

Ivan Vegvary

On Sep 10, 10:28*am, "Ivan Vegvary" wrote:

Larry, picture this.
You have a horizontal cable, say 100 feet long between two fixed points. *In
the middle you hang a 50 pound weight. *
Ivan Vegvary

Tighten your environmentally responsible solar powered clothes dryer
(clothesline) as tight as you can, then drop a towel over it. It will
sag.

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:29:46 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus15131 quickly quoth:

On 2008-09-10, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:48:49 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ivan
Vegvary" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:48:48 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, JR
North quickly quoth:

I don't kniow what the tensile rating is of the chuck joint, but I bet
it's nowhere near that of a properly swaged coupling.

2,680 pounds weight capacity. I wonder if you're supposed to divide
that by the 4mm opening, which would cut it to 422 lbs. Still, that'd
hold a couple large guys standing on one strand of the railing wire.

Actually, no. When applying force perpendicular to a tight wire, the force
multiplies by a large factor. In a pinch, you can winch a vehicle out of a
tight spot by tightly tying a rope between the vehicle and a tree and
applying force perpendicular to the middle of the rope. Needless to say you
have to take up the slack between each push on the rope.

I don't grok that, Ivan. A pull on the middle of the rope would be
equal on all 3 ends, wouldn't it?

No.

Try an experiment, you will need two pulleys.

"Try an experiment, you will need a block and tackle."

NOT the same as he was talking about, Ig.

No, you need caulk and jars and GPS units.

On 2008-09-10, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:29:46 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus15131 quickly quoth:

On 2008-09-10, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:48:49 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ivan
Vegvary" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
m...
On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:48:48 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, JR
North quickly quoth:

I don't kniow what the tensile rating is of the chuck joint, but I bet
it's nowhere near that of a properly swaged coupling.

2,680 pounds weight capacity. I wonder if you're supposed to divide
that by the 4mm opening, which would cut it to 422 lbs. Still, that'd
hold a couple large guys standing on one strand of the railing wire.

Actually, no. When applying force perpendicular to a tight wire, the force
multiplies by a large factor. In a pinch, you can winch a vehicle out of a
tight spot by tightly tying a rope between the vehicle and a tree and
applying force perpendicular to the middle of the rope. Needless to say you
have to take up the slack between each push on the rope.

I don't grok that, Ivan. A pull on the middle of the rope would be
equal on all 3 ends, wouldn't it?

No.

Try an experiment, you will need two pulleys.

"Try an experiment, you will need a block and tackle."

NOT the same as he was talking about, Ig.


Fix two pulleys and hang a rope on them like this:

,___________x_________.
|O O|
| |
X X

Attach heavy weights to points X. zThe rope on top will be almost
straight, the lighter the rope, the straighter. Then hang a much
lighter weight on point x. You will see the rope sag in the middle.
--
Due to extreme spam originating from Google Groups, and their inattention
to spammers, I and many others block all articles originating
from Google Groups. If you want your postings to be seen by
more readers you will need to find a different means of
posting on Usenet.
http://improve-usenet.org/

wrote in message
...
When applying force perpendicular to a tight wire, the force
multiplies by a large factor.

I don't grok that, Ivan. A pull on the middle of the rope would be
equal on all 3 ends, wouldn't it?

No, this is not a simple straight line mechanics problem of pulleys
acting as levers, it's a vector addition problem. When you pull the
rope out of line at the center, the component of tension perpendicular
at each end of the main rope has to be very high to match the small
component needed to offset the sideways pull, and this approaches
infinity the tighter the main rope gets.

As soon as you begin to pull the main rope out of a striaght line, all
the angles change and your advantage goes way down. This is not
something you can do for a sustained pull, it's a game of inches.
Pull, retension to shrink the angles again, repeat, ad nauseum.

--Glenn Lyford


I have successfully used this technique to grunt a car up a incline into a
garage when a pusher vehicle/come-a-long were not available.

Anchor end of rope to immovable object.
tie to a chain with a hook.
Fasten other end of chain to bumper tightly.
Have a helper with a chock ready behind wheels.
Grab the middle of the rope and lean back
Car moves, and helper moves chock.
Release, take another bite on the chain and repeat

Works a treat.


mark




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http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
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On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:03:46 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus24166 quickly quoth:

On 2008-09-10, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:29:46 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus15131 quickly quoth:

On 2008-09-10, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:48:49 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ivan
Vegvary" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
om...
On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:48:48 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, JR
North quickly quoth:

I don't kniow what the tensile rating is of the chuck joint, but I bet
it's nowhere near that of a properly swaged coupling.

2,680 pounds weight capacity. I wonder if you're supposed to divide
that by the 4mm opening, which would cut it to 422 lbs. Still, that'd
hold a couple large guys standing on one strand of the railing wire.

Actually, no. When applying force perpendicular to a tight wire, the force
multiplies by a large factor. In a pinch, you can winch a vehicle out of a
tight spot by tightly tying a rope between the vehicle and a tree and
applying force perpendicular to the middle of the rope. Needless to say you
have to take up the slack between each push on the rope.

I don't grok that, Ivan. A pull on the middle of the rope would be
equal on all 3 ends, wouldn't it?

No.

Try an experiment, you will need two pulleys.

"Try an experiment, you will need a block and tackle."

NOT the same as he was talking about, Ig.


Fix two pulleys and hang a rope on them like this:

,___________x_________.
|O O|
| |
X X

Again, that's not what he was describing, Ig.

x-------------y-----------x Pull on Y, no pulleys.


Q: Who here on RCM has 3 spring scales with which they can perform
this experiment?

--
"Most Folks Are As Happy As They Make Up Their Minds To Be"
-Abraham Lincoln
-----------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:04:02 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
"Mark Dunning" quickly quoth:


wrote in message
...
When applying force perpendicular to a tight wire, the force
multiplies by a large factor.

I don't grok that, Ivan. A pull on the middle of the rope would be
equal on all 3 ends, wouldn't it?

No, this is not a simple straight line mechanics problem of pulleys
acting as levers, it's a vector addition problem. When you pull the
rope out of line at the center, the component of tension perpendicular
at each end of the main rope has to be very high to match the small
component needed to offset the sideways pull, and this approaches
infinity the tighter the main rope gets.

What's the math/law/formula, Mark?


As soon as you begin to pull the main rope out of a striaght line, all
the angles change and your advantage goes way down. This is not
something you can do for a sustained pull, it's a game of inches.
Pull, retension to shrink the angles again, repeat, ad nauseum.

I have successfully used this technique to grunt a car up a incline into a
garage when a pusher vehicle/come-a-long were not available.

Anchor end of rope to immovable object.
tie to a chain with a hook.
Fasten other end of chain to bumper tightly.
Have a helper with a chock ready behind wheels.
Grab the middle of the rope and lean back
Car moves, and helper moves chock.
Release, take another bite on the chain and repeat

Works a treat.

Interesting. Now, after all this, I forgot the OP's intent. g

--
"Most Folks Are As Happy As They Make Up Their Minds To Be"
-Abraham Lincoln
-----------------------------------------------------------

No, you need caulk and jars and GPS units.

Quick, i need a 7/8 end wrench, 3 pop rivets, a comic book, and an avocado.

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
| On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:04:02 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
| "Mark Dunning" quickly quoth:
|
|
| wrote in message
| ...
| When applying force perpendicular to a tight wire, the force
| multiplies by a large factor.
|
| I don't grok that, Ivan. A pull on the middle of the rope would be
| equal on all 3 ends, wouldn't it?
|
| No, this is not a simple straight line mechanics problem of pulleys
| acting as levers, it's a vector addition problem. When you pull the
| rope out of line at the center, the component of tension perpendicular
| at each end of the main rope has to be very high to match the small
| component needed to offset the sideways pull, and this approaches
| infinity the tighter the main rope gets.
|
| What's the math/law/formula, Mark?
|

The Resultant Force(Fr) produced along a straight line perpendicular to the
pull force(Fa) would equal to the Force Applied(Fa) X Cotangeant of the
Angle(A) between the straight line and the pulled rope angle. [Fr = Fa(Cot
A)]
The resulting tension(Ft) on the rope would be equal to Fa/Sin A. [Ft
=Fa/SinA]

It is Applied Trigonometry in Mechanics.

Stupendous Man wrote:


No, you need caulk and jars and GPS units.

Quick, i need a 7/8 end wrench, 3 pop rivets, a comic book, and an avocado.


Pervert.


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There are two kinds of people on this earth:
The crazy, and the insane.
The first sign of insanity is denying that you're crazy.

On 2008-09-11, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:03:46 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus24166 quickly quoth:

On 2008-09-10, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:29:46 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus15131 quickly quoth:

On 2008-09-10, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:48:49 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ivan
Vegvary" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
news:5p0dc49m9715uqhj8n9ogtdcbnedofds0h@4ax. com...
On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:48:48 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, JR
North quickly quoth:

I don't kniow what the tensile rating is of the chuck joint, but I bet
it's nowhere near that of a properly swaged coupling.

2,680 pounds weight capacity. I wonder if you're supposed to divide
that by the 4mm opening, which would cut it to 422 lbs. Still, that'd
hold a couple large guys standing on one strand of the railing wire.

Actually, no. When applying force perpendicular to a tight wire, the force
multiplies by a large factor. In a pinch, you can winch a vehicle out of a
tight spot by tightly tying a rope between the vehicle and a tree and
applying force perpendicular to the middle of the rope. Needless to say you
have to take up the slack between each push on the rope.

I don't grok that, Ivan. A pull on the middle of the rope would be
equal on all 3 ends, wouldn't it?

No.

Try an experiment, you will need two pulleys.

"Try an experiment, you will need a block and tackle."

NOT the same as he was talking about, Ig.


Fix two pulleys and hang a rope on them like this:

,___________x_________.
|O O|
| |
X X

Again, that's not what he was describing, Ig.

x-------------y-----------x Pull on Y, no pulleys.


It is the same experiment.

Q: Who here on RCM has 3 spring scales with which they can perform
this experiment?


--
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On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:15:50 -0700, "P D Fritz"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
| On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:04:02 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
| "Mark Dunning" quickly quoth:
|
|
| wrote in message
| ...
| When applying force perpendicular to a tight wire, the force
| multiplies by a large factor.
|
| I don't grok that, Ivan. A pull on the middle of the rope would be
| equal on all 3 ends, wouldn't it?
|
| No, this is not a simple straight line mechanics problem of pulleys
| acting as levers, it's a vector addition problem. When you pull the
| rope out of line at the center, the component of tension perpendicular
| at each end of the main rope has to be very high to match the small
| component needed to offset the sideways pull, and this approaches
| infinity the tighter the main rope gets.
|
| What's the math/law/formula, Mark?
|

The Resultant Force(Fr) produced along a straight line perpendicular to the
pull force(Fa) would equal to the Force Applied(Fa) X Cotangeant of the
Angle(A) between the straight line and the pulled rope angle. [Fr = Fa(Cot
A)]
The resulting tension(Ft) on the rope would be equal to Fa/Sin A. [Ft
=Fa/SinA]

It is Applied Trigonometry in Mechanics.

That's how I pulled the shrubbery stumps out of the flower bed this
spring, a choker around the stump with a cable across the lawn to a
come-along anchore to a good size maple tree. A couple timber blocks
under the cable near the stump to re-direct the pull upward then apply
tension and jump on the mid point of the cable. took about an hour to
get the two stumps (one Yew, one Spruce) out. Next door neighbour was
impressed!
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Larry, I would expect that only 2 spring scales would be required, as one
end of the rope can be tied to a fixed point.

One scale should work, eh, if the weight of the hanging load is known
(definite maybe).

WB
..........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

NOT the same as he was talking about, Ig.



Again, that's not what he was describing, Ig.

x-------------y-----------x Pull on Y, no pulleys.


Q: Who here on RCM has 3 spring scales with which they can perform
this experiment?

--
"Most Folks Are As Happy As They Make Up Their Minds To Be"
-Abraham Lincoln
-----------------------------------------------------------

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 19:01:03 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 17:03:46 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus24166 quickly quoth:

On 2008-09-10, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 22:29:46 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus15131 quickly quoth:

On 2008-09-10, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:48:49 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ivan
Vegvary" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
news:5p0dc49m9715uqhj8n9ogtdcbnedofds0h@4ax. com...
On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:48:48 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, JR
North quickly quoth:

I don't kniow what the tensile rating is of the chuck joint, but I bet
it's nowhere near that of a properly swaged coupling.

2,680 pounds weight capacity. I wonder if you're supposed to divide
that by the 4mm opening, which would cut it to 422 lbs. Still, that'd
hold a couple large guys standing on one strand of the railing wire.

Actually, no. When applying force perpendicular to a tight wire, the force
multiplies by a large factor. In a pinch, you can winch a vehicle out of a
tight spot by tightly tying a rope between the vehicle and a tree and
applying force perpendicular to the middle of the rope. Needless to say you
have to take up the slack between each push on the rope.

I don't grok that, Ivan. A pull on the middle of the rope would be
equal on all 3 ends, wouldn't it?

No.

Try an experiment, you will need two pulleys.

"Try an experiment, you will need a block and tackle."

NOT the same as he was talking about, Ig.


Fix two pulleys and hang a rope on them like this:

,___________x_________.
|O O|
| |
X X

Again, that's not what he was describing, Ig.

x-------------y-----------x Pull on Y, no pulleys.


Q: Who here on RCM has 3 spring scales with which they can perform
this experiment?

Yikes! I hadn't been following this thread. Something will give. Dad
used this technique in 1949 or so to unstick some early tracked
combines cutting rice. He'd tie on with 100 ft. of 1" cable, take the
steel wheeled poppin' johnny out and spin it down at the end, then get
in the middle with another tractor and pull sideways. He later
realized that he could have been killed had something let go.

It's just trig. At 0 deg deflection, the load on the ends is
infinite. At 1 deg,you've moved sideways 1.7%, and decreased the
length by 0.015%, so mechanical advantage is already down to 114:1. At
0.1 deg, the mechanical advantage was 1145, and at 0.01 deg, 11,459
and so on. I used sin/(1-cos).

On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 01:03:13 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gerald Miller quickly quoth:

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 20:15:50 -0700, "P D Fritz"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
| On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 18:04:02 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
| "Mark Dunning" quickly quoth:
|
|
| wrote in message
| ...
| When applying force perpendicular to a tight wire, the force
| multiplies by a large factor.
|
| I don't grok that, Ivan. A pull on the middle of the rope would be
| equal on all 3 ends, wouldn't it?
|
| No, this is not a simple straight line mechanics problem of pulleys
| acting as levers, it's a vector addition problem. When you pull the
| rope out of line at the center, the component of tension perpendicular
| at each end of the main rope has to be very high to match the small
| component needed to offset the sideways pull, and this approaches
| infinity the tighter the main rope gets.
|
| What's the math/law/formula, Mark?
|

The Resultant Force(Fr) produced along a straight line perpendicular to the
pull force(Fa) would equal to the Force Applied(Fa) X Cotangeant of the
Angle(A) between the straight line and the pulled rope angle. [Fr = Fa(Cot
A)]
The resulting tension(Ft) on the rope would be equal to Fa/Sin A. [Ft
=Fa/SinA]

It is Applied Trigonometry in Mechanics.

That's how I pulled the shrubbery stumps out of the flower bed this
spring, a choker around the stump with a cable across the lawn to a
come-along anchore to a good size maple tree. A couple timber blocks
under the cable near the stump to re-direct the pull upward then apply
tension and jump on the mid point of the cable. took about an hour to
get the two stumps (one Yew, one Spruce) out. Next door neighbour was
impressed!

Thanks to P.D. and Gerry for those. I'll definitely apply them in the
years to come.

--
"Most Folks Are As Happy As They Make Up Their Minds To Be"
-Abraham Lincoln
-----------------------------------------------------------

On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:05:15 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, Pete
Keillor quickly quoth:

On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 19:01:03 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

Q: Who here on RCM has 3 spring scales with which they can perform
this experiment?

Yikes! I hadn't been following this thread. Something will give. Dad
used this technique in 1949 or so to unstick some early tracked
combines cutting rice. He'd tie on with 100 ft. of 1" cable, take the
steel wheeled poppin' johnny out and spin it down at the end, then get
in the middle with another tractor and pull sideways. He later
realized that he could have been killed had something let go.

It's just trig. At 0 deg deflection, the load on the ends is
infinite. At 1 deg,you've moved sideways 1.7%, and decreased the
length by 0.015%, so mechanical advantage is already down to 114:1. At
0.1 deg, the mechanical advantage was 1145, and at 0.01 deg, 11,459
and so on. I used sin/(1-cos).

Ah, those are the figures I was looking for. Man, those Cable Rail
style wires take a beating, don't they?

I trode across a suspension footbridge (The Swinging Bridge over the
Illinois River in Kerby, OR) yesterday and admired the engineering.
12x12" uprights about 20' tall and 1" galv steel wire ropes supporting
about an 80' span. I wonder how far they had to sink the terminations
to support that structure. I found a pic already online:
http://www.cavejunction.com/cavejunction/cj-pics.shtml
click on "Swinging Bridge - donated by Poodlenuts"

--
"Most Folks Are As Happy As They Make Up Their Minds To Be"
-Abraham Lincoln
-----------------------------------------------------------

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

snip

I trode across a suspension footbridge (The Swinging Bridge over the
Illinois River in Kerby, OR) yesterday and admired the engineering.
12x12" uprights about 20' tall and 1" galv steel wire ropes supporting
about an 80' span. I wonder how far they had to sink the terminations
to support that structure...

Oh, sink the terminations? You mean, like, in concrete? Oh. We were supposed
to do that?...

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 07:05:15 -0400, Pete Keillor
wrote:



Yikes! I hadn't been following this thread. Something will give. Dad
used this technique in 1949 or so to unstick some early tracked
combines cutting rice. He'd tie on with 100 ft. of 1" cable, take the
steel wheeled poppin' johnny out and spin it down at the end, then get
in the middle with another tractor and pull sideways. He later
realized that he could have been killed had something let go.

It's just trig. At 0 deg deflection, the load on the ends is
infinite. At 1 deg,you've moved sideways 1.7%, and decreased the
length by 0.015%, so mechanical advantage is already down to 114:1. At
0.1 deg, the mechanical advantage was 1145, and at 0.01 deg, 11,459
and so on. I used sin/(1-cos).
And something's gotta give!
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:31:05 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .

snip

I trode across a suspension footbridge (The Swinging Bridge over the
Illinois River in Kerby, OR) yesterday and admired the engineering.
12x12" uprights about 20' tall and 1" galv steel wire ropes supporting
about an 80' span. I wonder how far they had to sink the terminations
to support that structure...

Oh, sink the terminations? You mean, like, in concrete? Oh. We were supposed
to do that?...

I believe that it would have "fall down, go boom" long before now if
they hadn't done that, Ed.

I found a nice secluded "beach" and took a dip in the nice, refreshing
(70F or better) river yesterday. It was great. I need to get out and
do more hiking before it gets cold and wet to do so this year. It give
me and my Nikon more exercise.

--
"Most Folks Are As Happy As They Make Up Their Minds To Be"
-Abraham Lincoln
-----------------------------------------------------------

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:31:05 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..

snip

I trode across a suspension footbridge (The Swinging Bridge over the
Illinois River in Kerby, OR) yesterday and admired the engineering.
12x12" uprights about 20' tall and 1" galv steel wire ropes supporting
about an 80' span. I wonder how far they had to sink the terminations
to support that structure...

Oh, sink the terminations? You mean, like, in concrete? Oh. We were
supposed
to do that?...

I believe that it would have "fall down, go boom" long before now if
they hadn't done that, Ed.

I found a nice secluded "beach" and took a dip in the nice, refreshing
(70F or better) river yesterday. It was great. I need to get out and
do more hiking before it gets cold and wet to do so this year. It give
me and my Nikon more exercise.

'Beats hanging around here. If my freaking eyes were better (my sixth laser
eye surgery is tomorrow -- I may or may not be able to see the screen until
Saturday), if the tendonitis in my right Achilles heel wasn't keeping me
from walking (literally), and if a few other things weren't barking and
screaming at me, I'd be on the beach surf casting for bluefish, myself.

However, being temporarily blind (five times in the past two months) is very
interesting. You really can think clearly without the distraction of seeing
things. I had hope for Michael in that regard but it seems to have had the
opposite effect on him.

Are there any fish in that river? If so, why are you wasting your time
splashing around in it?

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 22:39:46 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:31:05 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

snip

I trode across a suspension footbridge (The Swinging Bridge over the
Illinois River in Kerby, OR) yesterday and admired the engineering.
12x12" uprights about 20' tall and 1" galv steel wire ropes supporting
about an 80' span. I wonder how far they had to sink the terminations
to support that structure...

Oh, sink the terminations? You mean, like, in concrete? Oh. We were
supposed
to do that?...

I believe that it would have "fall down, go boom" long before now if
they hadn't done that, Ed.

I found a nice secluded "beach" and took a dip in the nice, refreshing
(70F or better) river yesterday. It was great. I need to get out and
do more hiking before it gets cold and wet to do so this year. It give
me and my Nikon more exercise.

'Beats hanging around here. If my freaking eyes were better (my sixth laser
eye surgery is tomorrow -- I may or may not be able to see the screen until
Saturday),

SIXTH? What hack are you going to, sir? Are you flying to Tijuana,
B.C. for the $49.99 specials, or what?

My BIL got his done on Base and the surgeon accidentally tore the flap
off during his RK procedure. It's no big deal, except it increases the
pain level about six hundred percent. I hope to never, -ever- hear a
doctor say "Oops!" during my visit to him.


if the tendonitis in my right Achilles heel wasn't keeping me

I finally figured out that the patellar tendinitis in my right knee
was only a food allergy. Whenever I eat corn and hot sauce at the same
time, my knee gives me all sorts of grief. Neither one by itself
affects me nearly as much. I had already discovered my allergy to the
Nightshade family (tomatoes, potatoes, chiles, peppers, and eggplant)
and have been a much happier man in the past 17 years. I'd be willing
to bet that a majority of people's illnesses is due to food allergies
and urge you to go see a WooWoo Doctor (as my BIL called them, aka a
kinesiologist) or Naturopath, for testing. An old girlfriend's mother
was studying to become a Naturopath and tested me for free, finding my
nightshade plant allergies. I have half again more energy now with
those foods out of my body, and my arthritis pain level is markedly
decreased. I'm just now getting over my allergy to potatoes.
Ahhh--Potato chips again! (in moderation)

When I eat hot sauce, and I still love Mexican food, I notice all
sorts of muscle aches. I think it releases lactic acid in my muscles,
as if I'd overexerted myself (think a day of horseback riding after 20
years of not doing so, then remember what your inner thigh muscles
felt like afterwards.) Not a pretty picture.

Tomatoes give my entire body an acid condition and I feel 40 years
older than I am in my joints and muscles. That was the largest problem
in my allergies.

Potatoes used to give me horrible aches in the intestines as they were
processed.

If any of this sounds familiar, try getting tested for food allergies
by the WooWoos. I gare-on-TEE that you'll not regret having done so.


from walking (literally), and if a few other things weren't barking and
screaming at me, I'd be on the beach surf casting for bluefish, myself.

It's hell gettin' old, ain't it?


However, being temporarily blind (five times in the past two months) is very
interesting. You really can think clearly without the distraction of seeing
things. I had hope for Michael in that regard but it seems to have had the
opposite effect on him.

MT? Yeah, I plonked him long ago for is recto-cranial inversion
problem. John joined him yesterday. Life's too short to suffer fools.


Are there any fish in that river? If so, why are you wasting your time
splashing around in it?

Nothing much. Just salmon and steelhead at various times of the year.
I haven't been much of a fisherman since I turned teen, though.

--
"Most Folks Are As Happy As They Make Up Their Minds To Be"
-Abraham Lincoln
-----------------------------------------------------------

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 22:39:46 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 11 Sep 2008 09:31:05 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
m...

snip

I trode across a suspension footbridge (The Swinging Bridge over the
Illinois River in Kerby, OR) yesterday and admired the engineering.
12x12" uprights about 20' tall and 1" galv steel wire ropes supporting
about an 80' span. I wonder how far they had to sink the terminations
to support that structure...

Oh, sink the terminations? You mean, like, in concrete? Oh. We were
supposed
to do that?...

I believe that it would have "fall down, go boom" long before now if
they hadn't done that, Ed.

I found a nice secluded "beach" and took a dip in the nice, refreshing
(70F or better) river yesterday. It was great. I need to get out and
do more hiking before it gets cold and wet to do so this year. It give
me and my Nikon more exercise.

'Beats hanging around here. If my freaking eyes were better (my sixth
laser
eye surgery is tomorrow -- I may or may not be able to see the screen
until
Saturday),

SIXTH? What hack are you going to, sir? Are you flying to Tijuana,
B.C. for the $49.99 specials, or what?

It's a series of procedures to deal with Proliferative Diabetic Retinopathy.
Bad ****. They have to do it a small bit at a time so your retinas don't
peel off your eyeballs and leave you blind. Another of my doc's patients, a
23-year-old kid, just lost 100% of his vision because of it. I've been a lot
luckier, and I'm thankful for the advanced laser-diode technique they use
now. So far they've burned out over 3,000 spots on my retinas, and I can
still see. They cauterize blood vessels in your eyes with the laser. I am
one lucky dood.

Today should be the last. If I keep being lucky, I won't have any trouble
with it again.


My BIL got his done on Base and the surgeon accidentally tore the flap
off during his RK procedure. It's no big deal, except it increases the
pain level about six hundred percent. I hope to never, -ever- hear a
doctor say "Oops!" during my visit to him.

I've been joking with my doc about that. "What happens if the laser is on
and you sneeze?," I asked him. I picture my brain being sliced in half as he
says "oops"...g



if the tendonitis in my right Achilles heel wasn't keeping me

I finally figured out that the patellar tendinitis in my right knee
was only a food allergy. Whenever I eat corn and hot sauce at the same
time, my knee gives me all sorts of grief. Neither one by itself
affects me nearly as much.

Holy cow. What have I been eating lately? A lot of barbecued chicken and
corn on the cob. Big salads, Jersey tomatoes and summer squash up the
yin-yang. Some marinated London broil. Lots of fish. Hmmm...that's my usual
summertime stuff.

This is a weird one, because my orthopedic surgeon, an excellent sports
medicine guy, says it's an overuse injury. But I haven't been overusing it.
He's scratching his head. He wants me to wear this thing that looks like a
big, black ski boot. It's really stylish with shorts, and when you walk in
it you sound like one of the creatures that come out of the dark in
Halloween movies. 'Scares the hell out of little kids...

Anyway, it seems to be improving. For a couple of months I could hardly
leave the house. Now I can walk for about a mile without it flaring up. When
it hits four miles, I'll be satisfied.

I had already discovered my allergy to the
Nightshade family (tomatoes, potatoes, chiles, peppers, and eggplant)
and have been a much happier man in the past 17 years.

Those are some of my favorite things.

I'd be willing
to bet that a majority of people's illnesses is due to food allergies
and urge you to go see a WooWoo Doctor (as my BIL called them, aka a
kinesiologist) or Naturopath, for testing. An old girlfriend's mother
was studying to become a Naturopath and tested me for free, finding my
nightshade plant allergies. I have half again more energy now with
those foods out of my body, and my arthritis pain level is markedly
decreased. I'm just now getting over my allergy to potatoes.
Ahhh--Potato chips again! (in moderation)

'Glad to hear it. I'd just open my veins and be done with it if I couldn't
eat fresh tomatoes.


When I eat hot sauce, and I still love Mexican food, I notice all
sorts of muscle aches. I think it releases lactic acid in my muscles,
as if I'd overexerted myself (think a day of horseback riding after 20
years of not doing so, then remember what your inner thigh muscles
felt like afterwards.) Not a pretty picture.

Very interesting.


Tomatoes give my entire body an acid condition and I feel 40 years
older than I am in my joints and muscles. That was the largest problem
in my allergies.

Potatoes used to give me horrible aches in the intestines as they were
processed.

If any of this sounds familiar, try getting tested for food allergies
by the WooWoos. I gare-on-TEE that you'll not regret having done so.

OK, but what's a WooWoo?



from walking (literally), and if a few other things weren't barking and
screaming at me, I'd be on the beach surf casting for bluefish, myself.

It's hell gettin' old, ain't it?

As they say, it beats the alternative.



However, being temporarily blind (five times in the past two months) is
very
interesting. You really can think clearly without the distraction of
seeing
things. I had hope for Michael in that regard but it seems to have had the
opposite effect on him.

MT? Yeah, I plonked him long ago for is recto-cranial inversion
problem. John joined him yesterday. Life's too short to suffer fools.

Watch out, there will be no one left but the people who want to know what
grade of rod to use for welding up trailers out of recycled bed frames, and
whether a Chinese drill press is stiff enough for milling diesel engine
blocks.



Are there any fish in that river? If so, why are you wasting your time
splashing around in it?

Nothing much. Just salmon and steelhead at various times of the year.
I haven't been much of a fisherman since I turned teen, though.

"Just" salmon and steelhead? And you spash around in that sacred water?
Heathen!!

--
Ed Huntress

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 09 Sep 2008 17:48:49 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ivan
Vegvary" quickly quoth:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 08 Sep 2008 23:48:48 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, JR
North quickly quoth:

I don't kniow what the tensile rating is of the chuck joint, but I bet
it's nowhere near that of a properly swaged coupling.
2,680 pounds weight capacity. I wonder if you're supposed to divide
that by the 4mm opening, which would cut it to 422 lbs. Still, that'd
hold a couple large guys standing on one strand of the railing wire.
Actually, no. When applying force perpendicular to a tight wire, the force
multiplies by a large factor. In a pinch, you can winch a vehicle out of a
tight spot by tightly tying a rope between the vehicle and a tree and
applying force perpendicular to the middle of the rope. Needless to say you
have to take up the slack between each push on the rope.

I don't grok that, Ivan. A pull on the middle of the rope would be
equal on all 3 ends, wouldn't it? Even if it were a nice round pulley,
it would not give you any force increase. The individual snatch
blocks (pulley with a hook) we used on the tow trucks (at Flynn's
Frame and Collision eons ago) would only give us the -same- pull the
winch had, but it would be at a different angle, better for that
particular extraction. Multiple pulleys (forming a block and tackle)
would multiply the force.

If you still disagree, please cite the formula/law for us.

For S&G, I asked the question to the guys at Feeney, the Cable Rail
people. I'll post their answer if/when I get one.


Look here, go down to the table "Bridles"

http://www.ia470.com/primer/rigging.htm

Stuart

IF YOU CAN READ THIS...






On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 09:04:47 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .

SIXTH? What hack are you going to, sir? Are you flying to Tijuana,
B.C. for the $49.99 specials, or what?

It's a series of procedures to deal with Proliferative Diabetic Retinopathy.
Bad ****. They have to do it a small bit at a time so your retinas don't
peel off your eyeballs and leave you blind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetic_retinopathy Damn. Sux 2 B U
right now, huh? Well, if you went blind, it wouldn't be so bad. You
wouldn't have to see the crap they're broadcasting on the telebishun.
Well, are you sure it wasn't caused by all that strokin' you did as a
kid? Your mother _told_ you you'd go blind if you kept that up.


Another of my doc's patients, a
23-year-old kid, just lost 100% of his vision because of it. I've been a lot
luckier, and I'm thankful for the advanced laser-diode technique they use
now. So far they've burned out over 3,000 spots on my retinas, and I can
still see. They cauterize blood vessels in your eyes with the laser. I am
one lucky dood.

Holy ****, Maynard! That's gotta hurt. Is it panretinal
photocoagulation therapy you're receiving?


Today should be the last. If I keep being lucky, I won't have any trouble
with it again.

I hope you sailed through it, Ed.


My BIL got his done on Base and the surgeon accidentally tore the flap
off during his RK procedure. It's no big deal, except it increases the
pain level about six hundred percent. I hope to never, -ever- hear a
doctor say "Oops!" during my visit to him.

I've been joking with my doc about that. "What happens if the laser is on
and you sneeze?," I asked him. I picture my brain being sliced in half as he
says "oops"...g

Tell him to set it on STUN. That'll make it safer.


if the tendonitis in my right Achilles heel wasn't keeping me

I finally figured out that the patellar tendinitis in my right knee
was only a food allergy. Whenever I eat corn and hot sauce at the same
time, my knee gives me all sorts of grief. Neither one by itself
affects me nearly as much.

Holy cow. What have I been eating lately? A lot of barbecued chicken and
corn on the cob. Big salads, Jersey tomatoes and summer squash up the
yin-yang. Some marinated London broil. Lots of fish. Hmmm...that's my usual
summertime stuff.

Allergies usually come on after you eat one food for too long. The
"usual summertime stuff" is highly suspect.


This is a weird one, because my orthopedic surgeon, an excellent sports
medicine guy, says it's an overuse injury. But I haven't been overusing it.
He's scratching his head. He wants me to wear this thing that looks like a
big, black ski boot. It's really stylish with shorts, and when you walk in
it you sound like one of the creatures that come out of the dark in
Halloween movies. 'Scares the hell out of little kids...

And they look real comfy, don't they?


Anyway, it seems to be improving. For a couple of months I could hardly
leave the house. Now I can walk for about a mile without it flaring up. When
it hits four miles, I'll be satisfied.

Goodonya, mate.


I had already discovered my allergy to the
Nightshade family (tomatoes, potatoes, chiles, peppers, and eggplant)
and have been a much happier man in the past 17 years.

Those are some of my favorite things.

They were mine, too. sigh


I'd be willing
to bet that a majority of people's illnesses is due to food allergies
and urge you to go see a WooWoo Doctor (as my BIL called them, aka a
kinesiologist) or Naturopath, for testing. An old girlfriend's mother
was studying to become a Naturopath and tested me for free, finding my
nightshade plant allergies. I have half again more energy now with
those foods out of my body, and my arthritis pain level is markedly
decreased. I'm just now getting over my allergy to potatoes.
Ahhh--Potato chips again! (in moderation)

'Glad to hear it. I'd just open my veins and be done with it if I couldn't
eat fresh tomatoes.

Tell the laser doc to plug it into the 240v outlet. He'll slice and
dice ya up nice.


If any of this sounds familiar, try getting tested for food allergies
by the WooWoos. I gare-on-TEE that you'll not regret having done so.

OK, but what's a WooWoo?

See 3 paragraphs above, ya skip-reader. (shameful!)


from walking (literally), and if a few other things weren't barking and
screaming at me, I'd be on the beach surf casting for bluefish, myself.

It's hell gettin' old, ain't it?

As they say, it beats the alternative.

True.


However, being temporarily blind (five times in the past two months) is
very
interesting. You really can think clearly without the distraction of
seeing
things. I had hope for Michael in that regard but it seems to have had the
opposite effect on him.

MT? Yeah, I plonked him long ago for is recto-cranial inversion
problem. John joined him yesterday. Life's too short to suffer fools.

Watch out, there will be no one left but the people who want to know what
grade of rod to use for welding up trailers out of recycled bed frames, and
whether a Chinese drill press is stiff enough for milling diesel engine
blocks.

Yeah, only the metaldorkers, huh? g


Are there any fish in that river? If so, why are you wasting your time
splashing around in it?

Nothing much. Just salmon and steelhead at various times of the year.
I haven't been much of a fisherman since I turned teen, though.

"Just" salmon and steelhead?

I thought you might like that one. giggle


And you spash around in that sacred water?
Heathen!!

Hey, if the fish can **** in it, I can pee in it. It says right here
in the fine print.

--
"Most Folks Are As Happy As They Make Up Their Minds To Be"
-Abraham Lincoln
-----------------------------------------------------------

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...




IF YOU CAN READ THIS...

Yup. Yesterday was just a sort of clean-up, maybe 200 burns, and I got off
easy. My vision started to come back in just a couple of hours. That was a
refreshing change from the earlier ones.


On Fri, 12 Sep 2008 09:04:47 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..

SIXTH? What hack are you going to, sir? Are you flying to Tijuana,
B.C. for the $49.99 specials, or what?

It's a series of procedures to deal with Proliferative Diabetic
Retinopathy.
Bad ****. They have to do it a small bit at a time so your retinas don't
peel off your eyeballs and leave you blind.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diabetic_retinopathy Damn. Sux 2 B U
right now, huh? Well, if you went blind, it wouldn't be so bad. You
wouldn't have to see the crap they're broadcasting on the telebishun.
Well, are you sure it wasn't caused by all that strokin' you did as a
kid? Your mother _told_ you you'd go blind if you kept that up.

sigh And I didn't believe her...



Another of my doc's patients, a
23-year-old kid, just lost 100% of his vision because of it. I've been a
lot
luckier, and I'm thankful for the advanced laser-diode technique they use
now. So far they've burned out over 3,000 spots on my retinas, and I can
still see. They cauterize blood vessels in your eyes with the laser. I am
one lucky dood.

Holy ****, Maynard! That's gotta hurt. Is it panretinal
photocoagulation therapy you're receiving?

Jeez. Yes. You are a serious student.

As for the pain, it's not so bad, except when the laser hits a nerve. Then I
jump and the restraints keep me from driving my head through the machine.
d8-)


Today should be the last. If I keep being lucky, I won't have any trouble
with it again.

I hope you sailed through it, Ed.

It looks good so far. I didn't even lose any peripheral vision. They'll just
up my eyeglass prescription a bit and reading should be fine...for a while,
at least.

snip


I had already discovered my allergy to the
Nightshade family (tomatoes, potatoes, chiles, peppers, and eggplant)
and have been a much happier man in the past 17 years.

Those are some of my favorite things.

They were mine, too. sigh


snip



If any of this sounds familiar, try getting tested for food allergies
by the WooWoos. I gare-on-TEE that you'll not regret having done so.

OK, but what's a WooWoo?

See 3 paragraphs above, ya skip-reader. (shameful!)

Hey, don't mock the afflicted. g

snip
..


However, being temporarily blind (five times in the past two months) is
very
interesting. You really can think clearly without the distraction of
seeing
things. I had hope for Michael in that regard but it seems to have had
the
opposite effect on him.

MT? Yeah, I plonked him long ago for is recto-cranial inversion
problem. John joined him yesterday. Life's too short to suffer fools.

Watch out, there will be no one left but the people who want to know what
grade of rod to use for welding up trailers out of recycled bed frames,
and
whether a Chinese drill press is stiff enough for milling diesel engine
blocks.

Yeah, only the metaldorkers, huh? g

There seems to be a growing number of metal maulers. I miss Jim Rosen.



Are there any fish in that river? If so, why are you wasting your time
splashing around in it?

Nothing much. Just salmon and steelhead at various times of the year.
I haven't been much of a fisherman since I turned teen, though.

"Just" salmon and steelhead?

I thought you might like that one. giggle


And you spash around in that sacred water?
Heathen!!

Hey, if the fish can **** in it, I can pee in it. It says right here
in the fine print.

Salmon and steelhead don't **** in the river. They're too genteel. They wait
until they're in your creel.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sat, 13 Sep 2008 08:07:27 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .

IF YOU CAN READ THIS...

Yup. Yesterday was just a sort of clean-up, maybe 200 burns, and I got off
easy. My vision started to come back in just a couple of hours. That was a
refreshing change from the earlier ones.

Most excellent, sir.


kid? Your mother _told_ you you'd go blind if you kept that up.

sigh And I didn't believe her...

g


Holy ****, Maynard! That's gotta hurt. Is it panretinal
photocoagulation therapy you're receiving?

Jeez. Yes. You are a serious student.

But, of course.


As for the pain, it's not so bad, except when the laser hits a nerve. Then I
jump and the restraints keep me from driving my head through the machine.
d8-)

It hurts just to hear you tell it, Ed. shudder Kinda like the
dentist who says "This will pinch a little" as he rams the needle in,
doesn't wait for the novocaine to take effect, and cuts a slit inside
your gum instead of pulling the needle out and changing directions. I
mentioned this to my current dentist and he shuddered, noting that he
had seen this done in school and cringed every time, knowing the
damage these jerks were doing to their patients. He's not one of the
slashers, thank goodness.


Today should be the last. If I keep being lucky, I won't have any trouble
with it again.

I hope you sailed through it, Ed.

It looks good so far. I didn't even lose any peripheral vision. They'll just
up my eyeglass prescription a bit and reading should be fine...for a while,
at least.

Wunnerful.


See 3 paragraphs above, ya skip-reader. (shameful!)

Hey, don't mock the afflicted. g

Here's what I think of your afflicted drivel:
bends over and moons Ed whilst making raspberry sounds


MT? Yeah, I plonked him long ago for is recto-cranial inversion
problem. John joined him yesterday. Life's too short to suffer fools.

Watch out, there will be no one left but the people who want to know what
grade of rod to use for welding up trailers out of recycled bed frames,
and
whether a Chinese drill press is stiff enough for milling diesel engine
blocks.

Yeah, only the metaldorkers, huh? g

There seems to be a growing number of metal maulers. I miss Jim Rosen.

Ditto, and I'm glad to see 'Arry back.


Are there any fish in that river? If so, why are you wasting your time
splashing around in it?

Nothing much. Just salmon and steelhead at various times of the year.
I haven't been much of a fisherman since I turned teen, though.

"Just" salmon and steelhead?

I thought you might like that one. giggle


And you spash around in that sacred water?
Heathen!!

Hey, if the fish can **** in it, I can pee in it. It says right here
in the fine print.

Salmon and steelhead don't **** in the river. They're too genteel. They wait
until they're in your creel.

What's a creel? gd&r

--
"Most Folks Are As Happy As They Make Up Their Minds To Be"
-Abraham Lincoln
-----------------------------------------------------------