Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Seagoing containers

Just bought a 40 footer, but with other projects, company, and breaking my
back, haven't gotten to go fool with it except put in a new Razr and four
ATVs today.

Is there a site that gives info on how to install windows, doors, etc?

The people who sell the containers sell doors and windows installed, but I'm
el Cheapo, and always figure I can do it cheaper. Is that true, or is it
worth it to have them come do it?

I kind of figure if I can find a source for metal doors and windows, I can
flame cut openings and frame with tube steel, then slap the door/window on
there. A surplus dealer or a scrounger would do for the quality of stuff I
need.

Is there much to installing this stuff other than the irregular surface? Is
there any flashing that is made to match the corrugations that would make
this chore easier? Do you use any insulation in the chinks, or use the
spray "Good Stuff" and trim the excess?

And lastly, roll up doors. I hate messing with POS things no matter what
they are. Are decent roll ups available without paying a lot? And where?

Tips and caveats appreciated.

Steve

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not the man who only talks or writes about how it ought to be done."
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SteveB wrote:

Just bought a 40 footer, but with other projects, company, and breaking my
back, haven't gotten to go fool with it except put in a new Razr and four
ATVs today.

Is there a site that gives info on how to install windows, doors, etc?


Not that I'm aware of, it's pretty dang simple.


The people who sell the containers sell doors and windows installed, but I'm
el Cheapo, and always figure I can do it cheaper. Is that true, or is it
worth it to have them come do it?


Might have been cheaper at their site, unlikely having them come out if
they even would.


I kind of figure if I can find a source for metal doors and windows, I can
flame cut openings and frame with tube steel, then slap the door/window on
there. A surplus dealer or a scrounger would do for the quality of stuff I
need.


Ordinary commercial metal frame doors and windows from a salvage place.
Frame the opening with square / rectangular steel. Install door or
window with zip screws. Don't skimp on good silicone caulk.


Is there much to installing this stuff other than the irregular surface? Is
there any flashing that is made to match the corrugations that would make
this chore easier?


Weld a strip of angle to the outside of the square tube frame around the
door or window to form a gutter. Caulk along the seam to seal the non
welded sections.

Do you use any insulation in the chinks, or use the
spray "Good Stuff" and trim the excess?


I can't see where you'd insulate anything on the outside, just caulk to
seal. If you want insulation glue rigid insul board in the interior and
finish with FRP glued onto that.


And lastly, roll up doors. I hate messing with POS things no matter what
they are. Are decent roll ups available without paying a lot? And where?


No suggestions there beyond getting one of the stock ones from Depot /
Lowe's and adapting it to fit. The ones I looked at at Lowe's seemed to
be acceptable quality.
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"Pete C." wrote

helpful items snipped

Thanks Pete. Some good info. It doesn't look hard, just like to think
about things and ask before jumping into it and finding out I took way too
much time and spent way too much money. It all looks simple enough.

Steve


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Default Seagoing containers

Might be able to find some good quality stuff in a salvage yard for building
wrecking. Stripping out old buildings and starting over is common.

Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


SteveB wrote:
"Pete C." wrote

helpful items snipped

Thanks Pete. Some good info. It doesn't look hard, just like to think
about things and ask before jumping into it and finding out I took way too
much time and spent way too much money. It all looks simple enough.

Steve




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"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message
news

"Pete C." wrote

helpful items snipped

Thanks Pete. Some good info. It doesn't look hard, just like to think
about things and ask before jumping into it and finding out I took way too
much time and spent way too much money. It all looks simple enough.

Steve


Do you know why those shipping containers are so cheap these days when
everything else made of metal keeps going up? It's because all those
containers originate in China. They fill them up with goods headed for the
US. In the old days the containers were filled with American goods going
elsewhere. Now, there is no merchandise to put in the containers to send
back to China. So the Chinese, rather than spending the money to ship the
empty containers back to China simply leaves them here and sends more stuff
in new ones. It's cheaper to build new ones than to ship empty ones back.
Which shows you how free trade is a game in which we get beaten badly. All
our money is going overseas for oil and goods is one of the reasons for the
decline in the value of our currency. Kind of makes you wonder why a country
that runs the world's biggest deficits in trade is so fond of free trade.
We're like a fighter that keeps wanting another rematch with a boxer that is
a lot better than he is. Doesn't make much sense, does it?

Hawke




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"Hawke" writes:

Do you know why those shipping containers are so cheap these days when
everything else made of metal keeps going up? It's because all those
containers originate in China. They fill them up with goods headed for the
US. In the old days the containers were filled with American goods going
elsewhere. Now, there is no merchandise to put in the containers to send
back to China. So the Chinese, rather than spending the money to ship the
empty containers back to China simply leaves them here and sends more stuff
in new ones. It's cheaper to build new ones than to ship empty ones back.
Which shows you how free trade is a game in which we get beaten badly. All
our money is going overseas for oil and goods is one of the reasons for the
decline in the value of our currency. Kind of makes you wonder why a country
that runs the world's biggest deficits in trade is so fond of free trade.
We're like a fighter that keeps wanting another rematch with a boxer that is
a lot better than he is. Doesn't make much sense, does it?


While everything you say here is (sadly) true, it should be mentioned
that the comparison really isn't between the price of building a new
container vs. shipping the old one back, it's between building a new
container and selling the old one vs. shipping the old one back. I
wouldn't be surprised if, even at the prices they go for, they're
being sold at very close to their cost of construction.
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"Joe Pfeiffer" wrote in message
...
"Hawke" writes:

Do you know why those shipping containers are so cheap these days when
everything else made of metal keeps going up? It's because all those
containers originate in China. They fill them up with goods headed for
the
US. In the old days the containers were filled with American goods going
elsewhere. Now, there is no merchandise to put in the containers to send
back to China. So the Chinese, rather than spending the money to ship the
empty containers back to China simply leaves them here and sends more
stuff
in new ones. It's cheaper to build new ones than to ship empty ones back.
Which shows you how free trade is a game in which we get beaten badly.
All
our money is going overseas for oil and goods is one of the reasons for
the
decline in the value of our currency. Kind of makes you wonder why a
country
that runs the world's biggest deficits in trade is so fond of free trade.
We're like a fighter that keeps wanting another rematch with a boxer that
is
a lot better than he is. Doesn't make much sense, does it?


While everything you say here is (sadly) true, it should be mentioned
that the comparison really isn't between the price of building a new
container vs. shipping the old one back, it's between building a new
container and selling the old one vs. shipping the old one back. I
wouldn't be surprised if, even at the prices they go for, they're
being sold at very close to their cost of construction.


I was amazed at the seeming glut of these things. They're sitting all over
with phone numbers to yards where there are many more. IIRC, the 40' was
$2900 delivered. Instant storage, and a good tight box. Looking forward to
modifying it. Saw one yesterday that was two side by side with about ten
foot between, and a roof over the whole thing. Doors and windows all over
the place. Like that center shaded area. But I bet the roof cost as much
as the containers. A guy could poor boy it if he could get past the local
inspector. We live in an Agricultural 1 zone, so our rules are more lenient
than on the other side of the crick where it's R1. Over there, you can't
even HAVE one on your property more than thirty days, allowing for the PODS
to move things in and out. But no longer than that.

Steve


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Put wheels on it and a tongue - now a mobile home. :-)
It would be nice to have some of the square ones - those made for
shipping explosives. I think they must be 1/4's or thereabouts.

One could mount on concrete 4 side by side and back to back.
Have 4 room metal house - quickly brick up the outsides for the inspectors....

Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


SteveB wrote:
"Joe Pfeiffer" wrote in message
...
"Hawke" writes:
Do you know why those shipping containers are so cheap these days when
everything else made of metal keeps going up? It's because all those
containers originate in China. They fill them up with goods headed for
the
US. In the old days the containers were filled with American goods going
elsewhere. Now, there is no merchandise to put in the containers to send
back to China. So the Chinese, rather than spending the money to ship the
empty containers back to China simply leaves them here and sends more
stuff
in new ones. It's cheaper to build new ones than to ship empty ones back.
Which shows you how free trade is a game in which we get beaten badly.
All
our money is going overseas for oil and goods is one of the reasons for
the
decline in the value of our currency. Kind of makes you wonder why a
country
that runs the world's biggest deficits in trade is so fond of free trade.
We're like a fighter that keeps wanting another rematch with a boxer that
is
a lot better than he is. Doesn't make much sense, does it?

While everything you say here is (sadly) true, it should be mentioned
that the comparison really isn't between the price of building a new
container vs. shipping the old one back, it's between building a new
container and selling the old one vs. shipping the old one back. I
wouldn't be surprised if, even at the prices they go for, they're
being sold at very close to their cost of construction.


I was amazed at the seeming glut of these things. They're sitting all over
with phone numbers to yards where there are many more. IIRC, the 40' was
$2900 delivered. Instant storage, and a good tight box. Looking forward to
modifying it. Saw one yesterday that was two side by side with about ten
foot between, and a roof over the whole thing. Doors and windows all over
the place. Like that center shaded area. But I bet the roof cost as much
as the containers. A guy could poor boy it if he could get past the local
inspector. We live in an Agricultural 1 zone, so our rules are more lenient
than on the other side of the crick where it's R1. Over there, you can't
even HAVE one on your property more than thirty days, allowing for the PODS
to move things in and out. But no longer than that.

Steve




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Martin H. Eastburn wrote:
(top posting fixed)

SteveB wrote:
"Joe Pfeiffer" wrote in message
...
"Hawke" writes:
Do you know why those shipping containers are so cheap these days when
everything else made of metal keeps going up? It's because all those
containers originate in China. They fill them up with goods headed

-- snip --
But I bet the roof cost as much as the containers. A guy could poor
boy it if he could get past the local inspector. We live in an
Agricultural 1 zone, so our rules are more lenient than on the other
side of the crick where it's R1. Over there, you can't even HAVE one
on your property more than thirty days, allowing for the PODS to move
things in and out. But no longer than that.

Steve

Put wheels on it and a tongue - now a mobile home. :-)
It would be nice to have some of the square ones - those made for
shipping explosives. I think they must be 1/4's or thereabouts.

One could mount on concrete 4 side by side and back to back.
Have 4 room metal house - quickly brick up the outsides for the
inspectors....


Or how about three full sized ones? Call the middle one a nice wide
hall, carve out a narrow living room, a narrow dining room, a narrow
kitchen, a few narrow bedrooms...

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Do you need to implement control loops in software?
"Applied Control Theory for Embedded Systems" gives you just what it says.
See details at http://www.wescottdesign.com/actfes/actfes.html
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Tim Wescott wrote:

Or how about three full sized ones? Call the middle one a nice wide
hall, carve out a narrow living room, a narrow dining room, a narrow
kitchen, a few narrow bedrooms...



Tampa Armature Works, A company in Tampa, Florida is using a pair of
modified shipping containers as part of low cost housing.


http://www.bobvila.com/BVTV/Bob_Vila/Episode-0226.html


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sheep.


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"Tim Wescott" wrote

Or how about three full sized ones? Call the middle one a nice wide hall,
carve out a narrow living room, a narrow dining room, a narrow kitchen, a
few narrow bedrooms...


I have seen these put into configurations for instant mountain cabins. The
big thing would be crane accessibility, but the ones I saw looked cool.

Steve


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"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message
...

"Tim Wescott" wrote

Or how about three full sized ones? Call the middle one a nice wide

hall,
carve out a narrow living room, a narrow dining room, a narrow kitchen,

a
few narrow bedrooms...


I have seen these put into configurations for instant mountain cabins.

The
big thing would be crane accessibility, but the ones I saw looked cool.

Steve


Being that we have nothing to ship to China in these containers, they have
become extremely plentiful and inexpensive. The result is that they are
being used all over the country in all kinds of innovative ways. I saw one
where they were making them into houses. These were brand new high tech
homes that were being built as modular units where you could use as many of
them as you wanted depending on your house plan. They were putting all kinds
of green, high tech, and environmentally safe technologies to work in the
construction. Like all things that seem to be a negative an injection of
brainpower and a bit of necessity can turn lemons into lemonade. The
oversupply of containers is one example and the same thing is happening in
oil too. I think the same thing is happening with the high price of
gasoline. While no one likes paying over four dollars a gallon for it, the
high price is causing all kinds of changes to occur. I wouldn't be surprised
if in the long run the high price of oil is what will spur the country to
new and better ways of providing our energy needs. It hurts now but it'll be
better in the future for the pain we suffer in the short run.

Hawke


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Has to be more than the scrap metal price. Otherwise that would be nice!
Take good and bad ones.
Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Hawke wrote:
"SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote in message
...
"Tim Wescott" wrote

Or how about three full sized ones? Call the middle one a nice wide

hall,
carve out a narrow living room, a narrow dining room, a narrow kitchen,

a
few narrow bedrooms...

I have seen these put into configurations for instant mountain cabins.

The
big thing would be crane accessibility, but the ones I saw looked cool.

Steve


Being that we have nothing to ship to China in these containers, they have
become extremely plentiful and inexpensive. The result is that they are
being used all over the country in all kinds of innovative ways. I saw one
where they were making them into houses. These were brand new high tech
homes that were being built as modular units where you could use as many of
them as you wanted depending on your house plan. They were putting all kinds
of green, high tech, and environmentally safe technologies to work in the
construction. Like all things that seem to be a negative an injection of
brainpower and a bit of necessity can turn lemons into lemonade. The
oversupply of containers is one example and the same thing is happening in
oil too. I think the same thing is happening with the high price of
gasoline. While no one likes paying over four dollars a gallon for it, the
high price is causing all kinds of changes to occur. I wouldn't be surprised
if in the long run the high price of oil is what will spur the country to
new and better ways of providing our energy needs. It hurts now but it'll be
better in the future for the pain we suffer in the short run.

Hawke




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SteveB wrote:
"Tim Wescott" wrote

Or how about three full sized ones? Call the middle one a nice wide hall,
carve out a narrow living room, a narrow dining room, a narrow kitchen, a
few narrow bedrooms...


I have seen these put into configurations for instant mountain cabins. The
big thing would be crane accessibility, but the ones I saw looked cool.

Steve



There are a few companies around here that are using them to expand the
work areas. They set two on each side with room between them for a 4'
door. Then they install a fabric roof structure over them.

http://www.clearspan.com/fabric/structures/home
Look at the Low Profile roof frames

http://www.andelaproducts.com/index.html
Is one of the ones that is close by.

--
Steve W.
Near Cooperstown, New York
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On Jul 16, 2:11*pm, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote:
"Pete C." wrote

helpful items snipped

Thanks Pete. *Some good info. *It doesn't look hard, just like to think
about things and ask before jumping into it and finding out I took way too
much time and spent way too much money. *It all looks simple enough.

Steve


I posted about this stuff about a year ago and i'm making a 20 footer
into a machine shop

I was unable to find a suitable quality door so i did buy one

as we speak i'm taking a break from cutting out the doorway the trick
is to make sure you do not cut on corrugations and you can then easily
get a right angled frame back in with angle iron to allow the door to
frame back into place i'd say place the door the slide the angle in to
force the door into place then tack the angle so the door is "trapped"

I plan to leave the fit loose side to side and loose along the top and
bottom but tight front to back of the door
so that way the frame stays in place but there is wiggle room for
metal expansion (an 80C temp variation is possible where i live)

i plan to seal the gaps with window and door "great stuff"

Pictures are being taken



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SteveB wrote:
"Tim Wescott" wrote


Or how about three full sized ones? Call the middle one a nice wide hall,
carve out a narrow living room, a narrow dining room, a narrow kitchen, a
few narrow bedrooms...



I have seen these put into configurations for instant mountain cabins. The
big thing would be crane accessibility, but the ones I saw looked cool.

Steve


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...g_house_bw.jpg

Anywhere you want to put it.... :-)

Just costs $$$$.

Last time I was hearing costs ot was getting into five figures per
flying hour. Over $10K.

Still, whatever the cost, it can get you what you need to have lifted,
where you want it lifted too....

Cheers
Trevor Jones

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"Trevor Jones" wrote in message
news:mMpgk.451$nu6.175@edtnps83...
SteveB wrote:
"Tim Wescott" wrote


Or how about three full sized ones? Call the middle one a nice wide
hall, carve out a narrow living room, a narrow dining room, a narrow
kitchen, a few narrow bedrooms...



I have seen these put into configurations for instant mountain cabins.
The big thing would be crane accessibility, but the ones I saw looked
cool.

Steve

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedi...g_house_bw.jpg

Anywhere you want to put it.... :-)

Just costs $$$$.

Last time I was hearing costs ot was getting into five figures per flying
hour. Over $10K.

Still, whatever the cost, it can get you what you need to have lifted,
where you want it lifted too....

Cheers
Trevor Jones


I was coming west on 66 (now I-40) and I saw a Sikorsky with a big power
tower hanging under it. I had to pull off the road and watched it until it
disappeared. One of the darndest things I have ever seen.

Steve


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Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Brent wrote:
On Jul 16, 2:11 pm, "SteveB" toquerville@zionvistas wrote:
"Pete C." wrote

helpful items snipped

Thanks Pete. Some good info. It doesn't look hard, just like to think
about things and ask before jumping into it and finding out I took way too
much time and spent way too much money. It all looks simple enough.

Steve


I posted about this stuff about a year ago and i'm making a 20 footer
into a machine shop

I was unable to find a suitable quality door so i did buy one

as we speak i'm taking a break from cutting out the doorway the trick
is to make sure you do not cut on corrugations and you can then easily
get a right angled frame back in with angle iron to allow the door to
frame back into place i'd say place the door the slide the angle in to
force the door into place then tack the angle so the door is "trapped"

I plan to leave the fit loose side to side and loose along the top and
bottom but tight front to back of the door
so that way the frame stays in place but there is wiggle room for
metal expansion (an 80C temp variation is possible where i live)

i plan to seal the gaps with window and door "great stuff"

Pictures are being taken

Gapping like a log home ! Good plan.

Martin


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