I finally got around to installing the new Variable Speed (VS) and
Timing belts I got some months ago. I figured it would be a long and
messy process, and it was.

The VS belt was on its last legs, having already lost six or seven cogs,
with most of the others about to go as well, judging by the cracks. All
the missing cogs were contiguous, so there was a thump-thump-thump as
the drive ran.

The timing belt wasn't too bad, but I decided to replace both belts at
once, because most of the effort is in the removal and replacement of
the countershaft and clutch assembly.

Taking the countershaft assembly out wasn't that hard, but was a bit
awkward. Ditto reinstallation. It's really a two-man job, done by one
man.

With countershaft assembly on the workbench, take bearing caps off and
remove shaft et al from the countershaft frame.

At this point, discover a odd problem - The retaining ring that keeps
one bearing on the shaft is not seated in the groove, instead staying in
place by friction alone. Remove snap-ring and attempt to remove
bearing. It moves a little, then stops. There is this red muck
everywhere, the color of rust, but not gritty to the finger. Hmm.

Use bearing puller to remove the bearing. The very tip of the shaft,
between the snapring groove and the end of the shaft, about 0.25" in
length, is slightly oversize, although it looks perfect to the eye.

The toothed pulley, which is keyed to the shaft, slides freely axially,
but won't go over the oversize part. It leads a trail of red muck when
moved back and forth. Wipe muck up, time after time.

Clean up and use wet-dry sandpaper to polish the oversize down a bit.
Hi-Spot Blue used to see the high spots. The shaft appears to be case
hardened. Can almost get bearing on and off, but toothed pulley is
recalcitrant. Repeat. Decide not to go any further. Probably, it was
assembled from the other end, and seems to work just fine. If I do have
to get this all apart, I'll polish the high spot a bit more aggressively
with grit embedded in an aluminum tool bored to the correct diameter.

Used WD-40 to displace the water that caused the red muck, chased with
Vactra #2. It really is rust, rust that has been ground between steel
surfaces into a paint pigment. Nothing else was rusted. I bet that the
water came from condensation, and everything else was too greasy to rust.

The reason that the snapring was not seated is now clear. The spacer (a
machined thick steel tubular sleeve) between the toothed pulley and the
bearing (SKF 6205) is 0.030" too long. This bearing is probably an
aftermarket replacement, one that didn't quite fit.

Now the normal approach to the 0.030" problem would be to chuck the
spacer up in the lathe, and trim that 0.030" right off. Except that the
lathe's drivetrain is in pieces on the bench.

Revert yet again to 18th century methods. Clamp a 14" file to the
bench. Holding the sleeve in both hands, file it shorter, rotating the
sleeve an eighth of a turn between each cut. Clean swarf out of the
file grooves with compressed air. Every so often, flatten both ends of
sleeve with sandpaper on a granite flat. Took 20 or 30 minutes to get
to the correct length. The sleeve looks like it was machined to length,
not hand filed. Deburr sleeve and reassemble countershaft assembly,
this time with the snapring properly seated in its groove.

Reassemble lathe. It runs much quieter now. No thump-thump-thump.

Washed hands in paint thinner to get the black gunk off, then with Borax
to get the paint thinner off. Old car engines weren't this dirty.

Joe Gwinn

Joseph Gwinn wrote:

Snip...

Now the normal approach to the 0.030" problem would be to chuck the
spacer up in the lathe, and trim that 0.030" right off. Except that the
lathe's drivetrain is in pieces on the bench.

Coffee spew, been there, done that...

Jim Stewart wrote:
Joseph Gwinn wrote:

Snip...

Now the normal approach to the 0.030" problem would be to chuck the
spacer up in the lathe, and trim that 0.030" right off. Except that
the lathe's drivetrain is in pieces on the bench.


Coffee spew, been there, done that...

Does this principle have a name?
It's creepy how often the tool you are repairing would be most useful
in repairing the tool you are repairing.

--Winston

In article eqv%j.10380$nx6.5144@trnddc03,
Winston wrote:

Jim Stewart wrote:
Joseph Gwinn wrote:

Snip...

Now the normal approach to the 0.030" problem would be to chuck the
spacer up in the lathe, and trim that 0.030" right off. Except that
the lathe's drivetrain is in pieces on the bench.


Coffee spew, been there, done that...

Does this principle have a name?
It's creepy how often the tool you are repairing would be most useful
in repairing the tool you are repairing.

Murphy?

Joe Gwinn

In article eqv%j.10380$nx6.5144@trnddc03,
Winston wrote:

Jim Stewart wrote:
Joseph Gwinn wrote:

Snip...

Now the normal approach to the 0.030" problem would be to chuck the
spacer up in the lathe, and trim that 0.030" right off. Except that
the lathe's drivetrain is in pieces on the bench.


Coffee spew, been there, done that...

Does this principle have a name?
It's creepy how often the tool you are repairing would be most useful
in repairing the tool you are repairing.

--Winston

Murphy's Law of Recursive (Reflexive?) Tool Utility?

In article eqv%j.10380$nx6.5144@trnddc03,
Winston wrote:

Does this principle have a name?
It's creepy how often the tool you are repairing would be most useful
in repairing the tool you are repairing.

It's called the "Yes, dear, I really NEED two of those machines"
principle.

Or three, or a dozen, and a lineshaft to drive them in the old style,
and a turbine in the basement to drive the lineshaft, and a mill over
the basement to house them all, and a couple of warehouses for spare
parts...

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by

Joe,

A year or so ago when I had to repair the snap ring that holds the hydrylic
plunger to the bottom cone I was sure happy I still had my small import
lathe. :-)

If I didn't recount it here, the whole outside edge that holds the ring is
had disintigrated. In the end I woud up making a much thincker disk atthe
end of the ram shaft, and drilled and tapped it IN PLACE with a drill
fixture.

It's funny, but just yesterday I said "Gee the 5914 has been running fine
now so I guess I can sell the import and get some shop space".

--.- Dave


"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
I finally got around to installing the new Variable Speed (VS) and
Timing belts I got some months ago. I figured it would be a long and
messy process, and it was.

The VS belt was on its last legs, having already lost six or seven cogs,
with most of the others about to go as well, judging by the cracks. All
the missing cogs were contiguous, so there was a thump-thump-thump as
the drive ran.

The timing belt wasn't too bad, but I decided to replace both belts at
once, because most of the effort is in the removal and replacement of
the countershaft and clutch assembly.

Taking the countershaft assembly out wasn't that hard, but was a bit
awkward. Ditto reinstallation. It's really a two-man job, done by one
man.

With countershaft assembly on the workbench, take bearing caps off and
remove shaft et al from the countershaft frame.

At this point, discover a odd problem - The retaining ring that keeps
one bearing on the shaft is not seated in the groove, instead staying in
place by friction alone. Remove snap-ring and attempt to remove
bearing. It moves a little, then stops. There is this red muck
everywhere, the color of rust, but not gritty to the finger. Hmm.

Use bearing puller to remove the bearing. The very tip of the shaft,
between the snapring groove and the end of the shaft, about 0.25" in
length, is slightly oversize, although it looks perfect to the eye.

The toothed pulley, which is keyed to the shaft, slides freely axially,
but won't go over the oversize part. It leads a trail of red muck when
moved back and forth. Wipe muck up, time after time.

Clean up and use wet-dry sandpaper to polish the oversize down a bit.
Hi-Spot Blue used to see the high spots. The shaft appears to be case
hardened. Can almost get bearing on and off, but toothed pulley is
recalcitrant. Repeat. Decide not to go any further. Probably, it was
assembled from the other end, and seems to work just fine. If I do have
to get this all apart, I'll polish the high spot a bit more aggressively
with grit embedded in an aluminum tool bored to the correct diameter.

Used WD-40 to displace the water that caused the red muck, chased with
Vactra #2. It really is rust, rust that has been ground between steel
surfaces into a paint pigment. Nothing else was rusted. I bet that the
water came from condensation, and everything else was too greasy to rust.

The reason that the snapring was not seated is now clear. The spacer (a
machined thick steel tubular sleeve) between the toothed pulley and the
bearing (SKF 6205) is 0.030" too long. This bearing is probably an
aftermarket replacement, one that didn't quite fit.

Now the normal approach to the 0.030" problem would be to chuck the
spacer up in the lathe, and trim that 0.030" right off. Except that the
lathe's drivetrain is in pieces on the bench.

Revert yet again to 18th century methods. Clamp a 14" file to the
bench. Holding the sleeve in both hands, file it shorter, rotating the
sleeve an eighth of a turn between each cut. Clean swarf out of the
file grooves with compressed air. Every so often, flatten both ends of
sleeve with sandpaper on a granite flat. Took 20 or 30 minutes to get
to the correct length. The sleeve looks like it was machined to length,
not hand filed. Deburr sleeve and reassemble countershaft assembly,
this time with the snapring properly seated in its groove.

Reassemble lathe. It runs much quieter now. No thump-thump-thump.

Washed hands in paint thinner to get the black gunk off, then with Borax
to get the paint thinner off. Old car engines weren't this dirty.

Joe Gwinn

In article ,
"Dave August" wrote:

Joe,

A year or so ago when I had to repair the snap ring that holds the hydraulic
plunger to the bottom cone I was sure happy I still had my small import
lathe. :-)

If I didn't recount it here, the whole outside edge that holds the ring
had disintigrated. In the end I wound up making a much thicker disk at the
end of the ram shaft, and drilled and tapped it IN PLACE with a drill
fixture.

It's funny, but just yesterday I said "Gee the 5914 has been running fine
now so I guess I can sell the import and get some shop space".

I must admit I did think that this is why one needs two lathes. And two
mills. Vertical, and of course horizontal. And two ...

And a surface grinder.


Joe Gwinn


--.- Dave


"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
I finally got around to installing the new Variable Speed (VS) and
Timing belts I got some months ago. I figured it would be a long and
messy process, and it was.

[snip]

In article ,
Ecnerwal wrote:

In article eqv%j.10380$nx6.5144@trnddc03,
Winston wrote:

Does this principle have a name?
It's creepy how often the tool you are repairing would be most useful
in repairing the tool you are repairing.

It's called the "Yes, dear, I really NEED two of those machines"
principle.

Or three, or a dozen, and a lineshaft to drive them in the old style,
and a turbine in the basement to drive the lineshaft, and a mill over
the basement to house them all, and a couple of warehouses for spare
parts...

Yes, yes, yes. We used to have such buildings available for a song, but
now they are filled with biotech startups.

Joe Gwinn

On Thu, 29 May 2008 09:19:51 -0700, "Dave August"
wrote:

Joe,

A year or so ago when I had to repair the snap ring that holds the hydrylic
plunger to the bottom cone I was sure happy I still had my small import
lathe. :-)

If I didn't recount it here, the whole outside edge that holds the ring is
had disintigrated. In the end I woud up making a much thincker disk atthe
end of the ram shaft, and drilled and tapped it IN PLACE with a drill
fixture.

It's funny, but just yesterday I said "Gee the 5914 has been running fine
now so I guess I can sell the import and get some shop space".

--.- Dave

NEVER sell your spare lathe

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
I finally got around to installing the new Variable Speed (VS) and
Timing belts I got some months ago. I figured it would be a long and
messy process, and it was.

The VS belt was on its last legs, having already lost six or seven cogs,
with most of the others about to go as well, judging by the cracks. All
the missing cogs were contiguous, so there was a thump-thump-thump as
the drive ran.

The timing belt wasn't too bad, but I decided to replace both belts at
once, because most of the effort is in the removal and replacement of
the countershaft and clutch assembly.

Taking the countershaft assembly out wasn't that hard, but was a bit
awkward. Ditto reinstallation. It's really a two-man job, done by one
man.

With countershaft assembly on the workbench, take bearing caps off and
remove shaft et al from the countershaft frame.

At this point, discover a odd problem - The retaining ring that keeps
one bearing on the shaft is not seated in the groove, instead staying in
place by friction alone. Remove snap-ring and attempt to remove
bearing. It moves a little, then stops. There is this red muck
everywhere, the color of rust, but not gritty to the finger. Hmm.

Use bearing puller to remove the bearing. The very tip of the shaft,
between the snapring groove and the end of the shaft, about 0.25" in
length, is slightly oversize, although it looks perfect to the eye.

The toothed pulley, which is keyed to the shaft, slides freely axially,
but won't go over the oversize part. It leads a trail of red muck when
moved back and forth. Wipe muck up, time after time.

Clean up and use wet-dry sandpaper to polish the oversize down a bit.
Hi-Spot Blue used to see the high spots. The shaft appears to be case
hardened. Can almost get bearing on and off, but toothed pulley is
recalcitrant. Repeat. Decide not to go any further. Probably, it was
assembled from the other end, and seems to work just fine. If I do have
to get this all apart, I'll polish the high spot a bit more aggressively
with grit embedded in an aluminum tool bored to the correct diameter.

Used WD-40 to displace the water that caused the red muck, chased with
Vactra #2. It really is rust, rust that has been ground between steel
surfaces into a paint pigment. Nothing else was rusted. I bet that the
water came from condensation, and everything else was too greasy to rust.

The reason that the snapring was not seated is now clear. The spacer (a
machined thick steel tubular sleeve) between the toothed pulley and the
bearing (SKF 6205) is 0.030" too long. This bearing is probably an
aftermarket replacement, one that didn't quite fit.

Now the normal approach to the 0.030" problem would be to chuck the
spacer up in the lathe, and trim that 0.030" right off. Except that the
lathe's drivetrain is in pieces on the bench.

Revert yet again to 18th century methods. Clamp a 14" file to the
bench. Holding the sleeve in both hands, file it shorter, rotating the
sleeve an eighth of a turn between each cut. Clean swarf out of the
file grooves with compressed air. Every so often, flatten both ends of
sleeve with sandpaper on a granite flat. Took 20 or 30 minutes to get
to the correct length. The sleeve looks like it was machined to length,
not hand filed. Deburr sleeve and reassemble countershaft assembly,
this time with the snapring properly seated in its groove.

Reassemble lathe. It runs much quieter now. No thump-thump-thump.

Washed hands in paint thinner to get the black gunk off, then with Borax
to get the paint thinner off. Old car engines weren't this dirty.

Joe Gwinn

Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Hell Gerry,

I coulda done what I did in the BridgePort... The spindle dosen't care if
it's a tool or a work piece it's spinning...

No it's time to pass the import on to someone who can use it, 'cides I need
the space.. And I have 2 friend 5 minutes away with lathes...

--.- Dave

"Gerald Miller" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 29 May 2008 09:19:51 -0700, "Dave August"
wrote:

Joe,

A year or so ago when I had to repair the snap ring that holds the
hydrylic
plunger to the bottom cone I was sure happy I still had my small import
lathe. :-)

If I didn't recount it here, the whole outside edge that holds the ring
is
had disintigrated. In the end I woud up making a much thincker disk atthe
end of the ram shaft, and drilled and tapped it IN PLACE with a drill
fixture.

It's funny, but just yesterday I said "Gee the 5914 has been running fine
now so I guess I can sell the import and get some shop space".

--.- Dave

NEVER sell your spare lathe

"Joseph Gwinn" wrote in message
...
I finally got around to installing the new Variable Speed (VS) and
Timing belts I got some months ago. I figured it would be a long and
messy process, and it was.

The VS belt was on its last legs, having already lost six or seven cogs,
with most of the others about to go as well, judging by the cracks. All
the missing cogs were contiguous, so there was a thump-thump-thump as
the drive ran.

The timing belt wasn't too bad, but I decided to replace both belts at
once, because most of the effort is in the removal and replacement of
the countershaft and clutch assembly.

Taking the countershaft assembly out wasn't that hard, but was a bit
awkward. Ditto reinstallation. It's really a two-man job, done by one
man.

With countershaft assembly on the workbench, take bearing caps off and
remove shaft et al from the countershaft frame.

At this point, discover a odd problem - The retaining ring that keeps
one bearing on the shaft is not seated in the groove, instead staying in
place by friction alone. Remove snap-ring and attempt to remove
bearing. It moves a little, then stops. There is this red muck
everywhere, the color of rust, but not gritty to the finger. Hmm.

Use bearing puller to remove the bearing. The very tip of the shaft,
between the snapring groove and the end of the shaft, about 0.25" in
length, is slightly oversize, although it looks perfect to the eye.

The toothed pulley, which is keyed to the shaft, slides freely axially,
but won't go over the oversize part. It leads a trail of red muck when
moved back and forth. Wipe muck up, time after time.

Clean up and use wet-dry sandpaper to polish the oversize down a bit.
Hi-Spot Blue used to see the high spots. The shaft appears to be case
hardened. Can almost get bearing on and off, but toothed pulley is
recalcitrant. Repeat. Decide not to go any further. Probably, it was
assembled from the other end, and seems to work just fine. If I do have
to get this all apart, I'll polish the high spot a bit more aggressively
with grit embedded in an aluminum tool bored to the correct diameter.

Used WD-40 to displace the water that caused the red muck, chased with
Vactra #2. It really is rust, rust that has been ground between steel
surfaces into a paint pigment. Nothing else was rusted. I bet that the
water came from condensation, and everything else was too greasy to
rust.

The reason that the snapring was not seated is now clear. The spacer (a
machined thick steel tubular sleeve) between the toothed pulley and the
bearing (SKF 6205) is 0.030" too long. This bearing is probably an
aftermarket replacement, one that didn't quite fit.

Now the normal approach to the 0.030" problem would be to chuck the
spacer up in the lathe, and trim that 0.030" right off. Except that the
lathe's drivetrain is in pieces on the bench.

Revert yet again to 18th century methods. Clamp a 14" file to the
bench. Holding the sleeve in both hands, file it shorter, rotating the
sleeve an eighth of a turn between each cut. Clean swarf out of the
file grooves with compressed air. Every so often, flatten both ends of
sleeve with sandpaper on a granite flat. Took 20 or 30 minutes to get
to the correct length. The sleeve looks like it was machined to length,
not hand filed. Deburr sleeve and reassemble countershaft assembly,
this time with the snapring properly seated in its groove.

Reassemble lathe. It runs much quieter now. No thump-thump-thump.

Washed hands in paint thinner to get the black gunk off, then with Borax
to get the paint thinner off. Old car engines weren't this dirty.

Joe Gwinn

Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

On Fri, 30 May 2008 14:09:48 -0700, "Dave August"
wrote:

Hell Gerry,

I coulda done what I did in the BridgePort... The spindle dosen't care if
it's a tool or a work piece it's spinning...

No it's time to pass the import on to someone who can use it, 'cides I need
the space.. And I have 2 friend 5 minutes away with lathes...

--.- Dave
Isn't that the definition of networking?
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

Close...

Networking is my Buddy 100 miles away who has a BridgePort and a 5914...

We swap tooling and technique ALL the time.. :-))

--.- Dave

Isn't that the definition of networking?
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada