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Default economic discussion

F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Sun, 25 May 2008 10:15:05 -0700, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:
snip
He'd also like to prevent the spectacle of 35 year old middle
managers hanging from the worlds lamp posts.
That is admirable but beyond it's his ability.

snip
===========
2 good points.

I would too, as the "mob" never seems to get the "right" people


They get whoever is at hand.

(ones that caused the problems), or when to quit.


They quit when exhaustion sets in.
Ever see a real street fight?
They tend not to last very long.

--

John R. Carroll
www.machiningsolution.com


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Default economic discussion

F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Sun, 25 May 2008 10:15:05 -0700, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:
snip
He'd also like to prevent the spectacle of 35 year old middle
managers hanging from the worlds lamp posts.
That is admirable but beyond it's his ability.

snip
===========
2 good points.

I would too, as the "mob" never seems to get the "right" people
(ones that caused the problems), or when to quit.



http://ml-implode.com/


--

John R. Carroll
www.machiningsolution.com


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Default Obamas plans for the US

On Sat, 24 May 2008 08:37:02 -0700, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:

F. George McDuffee wrote:
On Tue, 20 May 2008 12:29:21 -0700, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:
snip
My bet is on a CDS default resulting from a major municipal or
IDB default, possibly in California. Most likely not as a direct
result, but the consequence of the municipal bond insurer
attempting to exercise the CDS they have which "insured" the
bond, which exposes how "bare the cupboards are" and triggers a
mass stampede for the exits.

That's a possibility but the next round of mortgage defaults on
mortgages known as Alt-A's is where I'd place my money.
Sub primes were a small fraction of the entire mortgage market.

snip
==========
Unfortunately one does not exclude the other, and indeed one may
even trigger/promote the other(s).

Its always dangerous to extrapolate from a single data point, but
this could be the first drops of water seeping through the cracks
as the dam bursts, although Vallejo is not a major municipality.


Like Orange was?

There are a lot of cities here that are in trouble. Cities, Counties and the
State.
Through the use of ballot initiatives, we've largely removed the
legistlatures ability to maneuver either in advance of or during a financial
calamity.
The State is seeing a tremendous decline in revenues. All of the churning in
the real estate market generated a tremendous inflow of revenue. A real
surplus. Unfortunately, it can't be saved. That's the law here. No "rainy
day" funds allowed.

Because of this, and many other mandates from the voters, the State is just
plain not paying the muni's what is due.
There just isn't any money.

Think about this. The Governor is trying to close a budget deficit that
can't be precisely estimated by selling future cash flows from the State
Lottery Commission to PE funds.
It isn't that people in charge don't know what to do. It's that their hands
have been tied by the law.


Now its up to them to start trimming.

And close the borders and stop entitlements to illegals.

Care to tell the folks what the percentage of our elementary schools
are the children of Illegal aliens?

The single biggest item of the California budget, is education.

Gunner

Who has always found this interesting as hell. Gobbels would have been
proud.

http://www.californiaprogressreport....ants_incl.html

Particularly when when compared to
http://www.novatownhall.com/blog/200...e_and_gang.php
http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_...gal_alien.html
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServe...h_researchf6ad




Gunner

Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional,
illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an
unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the
proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
  #124   Report Post  
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Posts: 2,152
Default Obamas plans for the US

On Sun, 25 May 2008 18:18:20 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

It isn't that people in charge don't know what to do. It's that their hands
have been tied by the law.


Now its up to them to start trimming.

And close the borders and stop entitlements to illegals.

Care to tell the folks what the percentage of our elementary schools
are the children of Illegal aliens?

================
The cost to educate the children of "undocumented workers" is
simply the tip of a "cost externalization" iceberg, and shows in
a small way just how expensive "cheap labor" is, when *ALL* the
costs are added up, not just what the employer pays.

In the case of education, the basic problem reduces to "It costs
a bazillion dollars to educate the children of the undocumented
workers, but it will cost 2 bazillion dollars to *NOT* educate
the children of the undocumented workers (assuming they remain
the in US), and it will cost 3 bazillion dollars to implement the
massive deportations (and a Constitutional amendment to eliminate
the automatic citizenship of anyone born on US territory) to
remove them. This is like the "choice" offered the prisoner at
his trial: "would you rather be shot, hung or beheaded."

The reason that so many businesses hire "undocumented workers" is
because the employers manage to fob off most of the actual
additional costs on the other taxpayers, either through higher
taxes, and/or decreased access to governmental services, and/or
reduced community "quality of life."

In the case of the children of "undocumented workers," there is
not only the cost for the additional "standard" teaching
resources, but governmental mandates to provide expensive
additional services such as ESL [English as a Second Language],
and interim instruction in their native language, which in many
cases are far beyond the basic instructional costs. Because of
the socio-cultural isolation/alienation of the students, any
behavioral problems or anti-social tendencies are amplified and
exacerbated, requiring yet more taxpayer funded resources and
services. Note that any children born in the US are
automatically US citizens.

The failure of government to proactively respond to the
immigration problems on the one hand, combined with the demand
for cheap [below free market value] labor in the private sector
has impaled the citizens on the horns of a very nasty dilemma,
which has only bad, worse and worst solutions/outcomes.

No one wants to see mass deportations and "ethnic cleansing" on
the scale required to correct the problem at this point, but the
situation cannot and will not continue either, as it is simply
not economically possible, even though California is one of the
top economic areas in the entire world. The political-economic
resources simply do not exist to maintain public services such as
law enforcement, public health [think emergency rooms, potable
water and sewage] and free public education for the majority of
citizens and residents at the current levels.

The majority of citizens and legal residents are, understandably
enough, highly opposed to the significant reductions in their and
their families "standard of living" and "quality of life," to the
[ever decreasing] levels that are economically sustainable/viable
in the long term.

One of the worst aspects of uncontrolled immigration is the
continual introduction of police state measures such as identity
cards, residency permits, occupancy permits [e.g. restricting
single family residences/apartments to single family occupancy],
work permits, internal passports and travel documents, etc. in an
attempt to at least moderate the immediate problems.
Unfortunately, these repressive and intrusive measures have had
no measurable effect, so we now have the worst of both worlds.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
  #125   Report Post  
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Posts: 424
Default Obamas plans for the US

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 24 May 2008 08:37:02 -0700, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:


F. George McDuffee wrote:

On Tue, 20 May 2008 12:29:21 -0700, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:
snip

My bet is on a CDS default resulting from a major municipal or
IDB default, possibly in California. Most likely not as a direct
result, but the consequence of the municipal bond insurer
attempting to exercise the CDS they have which "insured" the
bond, which exposes how "bare the cupboards are" and triggers a
mass stampede for the exits.

That's a possibility but the next round of mortgage defaults on
mortgages known as Alt-A's is where I'd place my money.
Sub primes were a small fraction of the entire mortgage market.

snip
==========
Unfortunately one does not exclude the other, and indeed one may
even trigger/promote the other(s).

Its always dangerous to extrapolate from a single data point, but
this could be the first drops of water seeping through the cracks
as the dam bursts, although Vallejo is not a major municipality.


Like Orange was?

There are a lot of cities here that are in trouble. Cities, Counties and the
State.
Through the use of ballot initiatives, we've largely removed the
legistlatures ability to maneuver either in advance of or during a financial
calamity.
The State is seeing a tremendous decline in revenues. All of the churning in
the real estate market generated a tremendous inflow of revenue. A real
surplus. Unfortunately, it can't be saved. That's the law here. No "rainy
day" funds allowed.

Because of this, and many other mandates from the voters, the State is just
plain not paying the muni's what is due.
There just isn't any money.

Think about this. The Governor is trying to close a budget deficit that
can't be precisely estimated by selling future cash flows from the State
Lottery Commission to PE funds.
It isn't that people in charge don't know what to do. It's that their hands
have been tied by the law.



Now its up to them to start trimming.

And close the borders and stop entitlements to illegals.

Care to tell the folks what the percentage of our elementary schools
are the children of Illegal aliens?

The single biggest item of the California budget, is education.

Gunner

Who has always found this interesting as hell. Gobbels would have been
proud.

http://www.californiaprogressreport....ants_incl.html

Particularly when when compared to
http://www.novatownhall.com/blog/200...e_and_gang.php
http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_...gal_alien.html
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServe...h_researchf6ad




Gunner

Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional,
illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an
unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the
proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.



Gunner, this is OT but are you aware of AB2062? this is the bill
sponsored by some Dummycrap that would require ammunition purchasers to
register and be fingerprinted and undergo a BGC and fill out paperwork
each and every time you buy. It would also limit you to 50 rounds per
month. This piece of liberal **** passed out of the "Public Safety
(what a joke) Committee on Thursday by a 10-5 (Dummycrap/Republican)
vote. It's time to start calling ALL the idiots in Sacredtomato and
voicing your disapproval. Another "Hey, look what I did to make you
safer." liberal piece of garbage.

Jim


  #126   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 2,502
Default Obamas plans for the US

On Sun, 25 May 2008 22:07:53 -0500, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

In the case of the children of "undocumented workers," there is
not only the cost for the additional "standard" teaching
resources, but governmental mandates to provide expensive
additional services such as ESL [English as a Second Language],
and interim instruction in their native language, which in many
cases are far beyond the basic instructional costs. Because of
the socio-cultural isolation/alienation of the students, any
behavioral problems or anti-social tendencies are amplified and
exacerbated, requiring yet more taxpayer funded resources and
services.


Including welfare and medical expenses. One should note that 84
emergency rooms closed in California since 2003, as a result of
illegal aliens taking advantage of state/federal law requireing them
to be treated at ERs..and not paying their bills.

Note that any children born in the US are
automatically US citizens.


Only as the result of a court decision. That Constitutional tidbit is
being reviewed again by scholars and the interpretation is coming up
short..really short

Anchor babies may soon be a thing of the past.

Gunner


at yoyodyne they were all veterans of the psychic wars
exiled from the eighth dimension where the winds of limbo roar"
* * * * * * *mariposa rand mair theal
  #127   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 2,502
Default Obamas plans for the US

On Mon, 26 May 2008 04:15:58 GMT, Jim Chandler wrote:

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 24 May 2008 08:37:02 -0700, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:


F. George McDuffee wrote:

On Tue, 20 May 2008 12:29:21 -0700, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:
snip

My bet is on a CDS default resulting from a major municipal or
IDB default, possibly in California. Most likely not as a direct
result, but the consequence of the municipal bond insurer
attempting to exercise the CDS they have which "insured" the
bond, which exposes how "bare the cupboards are" and triggers a
mass stampede for the exits.

That's a possibility but the next round of mortgage defaults on
mortgages known as Alt-A's is where I'd place my money.
Sub primes were a small fraction of the entire mortgage market.

snip
==========
Unfortunately one does not exclude the other, and indeed one may
even trigger/promote the other(s).

Its always dangerous to extrapolate from a single data point, but
this could be the first drops of water seeping through the cracks
as the dam bursts, although Vallejo is not a major municipality.

Like Orange was?

There are a lot of cities here that are in trouble. Cities, Counties and the
State.
Through the use of ballot initiatives, we've largely removed the
legistlatures ability to maneuver either in advance of or during a financial
calamity.
The State is seeing a tremendous decline in revenues. All of the churning in
the real estate market generated a tremendous inflow of revenue. A real
surplus. Unfortunately, it can't be saved. That's the law here. No "rainy
day" funds allowed.

Because of this, and many other mandates from the voters, the State is just
plain not paying the muni's what is due.
There just isn't any money.

Think about this. The Governor is trying to close a budget deficit that
can't be precisely estimated by selling future cash flows from the State
Lottery Commission to PE funds.
It isn't that people in charge don't know what to do. It's that their hands
have been tied by the law.



Now its up to them to start trimming.

And close the borders and stop entitlements to illegals.

Care to tell the folks what the percentage of our elementary schools
are the children of Illegal aliens?

The single biggest item of the California budget, is education.

Gunner

Who has always found this interesting as hell. Gobbels would have been
proud.

http://www.californiaprogressreport....ants_incl.html

Particularly when when compared to
http://www.novatownhall.com/blog/200...e_and_gang.php
http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_...gal_alien.html
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServe...h_researchf6ad




Gunner

Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional,
illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an
unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the
proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.



Gunner, this is OT but are you aware of AB2062? this is the bill
sponsored by some Dummycrap that would require ammunition purchasers to
register and be fingerprinted and undergo a BGC and fill out paperwork
each and every time you buy. It would also limit you to 50 rounds per
month. This piece of liberal **** passed out of the "Public Safety
(what a joke) Committee on Thursday by a 10-5 (Dummycrap/Republican)
vote. It's time to start calling ALL the idiots in Sacredtomato and
voicing your disapproval. Another "Hey, look what I did to make you
safer." liberal piece of garbage.

Jim



ayup..sent some money, have made some phone calls.

****ing leftwing buffoons on the move again.

The Assualt Weapons Ban sunsetted in 49 states because it was proven
that "assault weapons" were not a problem.

California still has their own AWB. Rather draconian as well. Not to
mention all handguns must be "safety approved" by some jerkoff
commision in Sacrademento.

Fascinating that a number of the weapons once "rejected" are standard
issue for California law enforcement agencies, notably the Glock.

The law is such that many weapons manufactures simply refuse to send
in one of every type, variant etc with a huge fee every year for
"approval"

As to small scale ammo purchases...case lots from over the border in
Aridzona etc will simply increase...along with large cap magazines.

As will reloading supplies.

**** the ******s.


Gunner

at yoyodyne they were all veterans of the psychic wars
exiled from the eighth dimension where the winds of limbo roar"
* * * * * * *mariposa rand mair theal
  #128   Report Post  
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Posts: 424
Default Obamas plans for the US

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 26 May 2008 04:15:58 GMT, Jim Chandler wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:


On Sat, 24 May 2008 08:37:02 -0700, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:



F. George McDuffee wrote:


On Tue, 20 May 2008 12:29:21 -0700, "John R. Carroll"
wrote:
snip

My bet is on a CDS default resulting from a major municipal or
IDB default, possibly in California. Most likely not as a direct
result, but the consequence of the municipal bond insurer
attempting to exercise the CDS they have which "insured" the
bond, which exposes how "bare the cupboards are" and triggers a
mass stampede for the exits.

That's a possibility but the next round of mortgage defaults on
mortgages known as Alt-A's is where I'd place my money.
Sub primes were a small fraction of the entire mortgage market.

snip
==========
Unfortunately one does not exclude the other, and indeed one may
even trigger/promote the other(s).

Its always dangerous to extrapolate from a single data point, but
this could be the first drops of water seeping through the cracks
as the dam bursts, although Vallejo is not a major municipality.

Like Orange was?

There are a lot of cities here that are in trouble. Cities, Counties and the
State.
Through the use of ballot initiatives, we've largely removed the
legistlatures ability to maneuver either in advance of or during a financial
calamity.
The State is seeing a tremendous decline in revenues. All of the churning in
the real estate market generated a tremendous inflow of revenue. A real
surplus. Unfortunately, it can't be saved. That's the law here. No "rainy
day" funds allowed.

Because of this, and many other mandates from the voters, the State is just
plain not paying the muni's what is due.
There just isn't any money.

Think about this. The Governor is trying to close a budget deficit that
can't be precisely estimated by selling future cash flows from the State
Lottery Commission to PE funds.
It isn't that people in charge don't know what to do. It's that their hands
have been tied by the law.


Now its up to them to start trimming.

And close the borders and stop entitlements to illegals.

Care to tell the folks what the percentage of our elementary schools
are the children of Illegal aliens?

The single biggest item of the California budget, is education.

Gunner

Who has always found this interesting as hell. Gobbels would have been
proud.

http://www.californiaprogressreport....ants_incl.html

Particularly when when compared to
http://www.novatownhall.com/blog/200...e_and_gang.php
http://www.city-journal.org/html/14_...gal_alien.html
http://www.fairus.org/site/PageServe...h_researchf6ad




Gunner

Political Correctness is a doctrine fostered by a delusional,
illogical liberal minority, and rabidly promoted by an
unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the
proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.



Gunner, this is OT but are you aware of AB2062? this is the bill
sponsored by some Dummycrap that would require ammunition purchasers to
register and be fingerprinted and undergo a BGC and fill out paperwork
each and every time you buy. It would also limit you to 50 rounds per
month. This piece of liberal **** passed out of the "Public Safety
(what a joke) Committee on Thursday by a 10-5 (Dummycrap/Republican)
vote. It's time to start calling ALL the idiots in Sacredtomato and
voicing your disapproval. Another "Hey, look what I did to make you
safer." liberal piece of garbage.

Jim




ayup..sent some money, have made some phone calls.

****ing leftwing buffoons on the move again.

The Assualt Weapons Ban sunsetted in 49 states because it was proven
that "assault weapons" were not a problem.

California still has their own AWB. Rather draconian as well. Not to
mention all handguns must be "safety approved" by some jerkoff
commision in Sacrademento.

Fascinating that a number of the weapons once "rejected" are standard
issue for California law enforcement agencies, notably the Glock.

The law is such that many weapons manufactures simply refuse to send
in one of every type, variant etc with a huge fee every year for
"approval"

As to small scale ammo purchases...case lots from over the border in
Aridzona etc will simply increase...along with large cap magazines.

As will reloading supplies.

**** the ******s.


Gunner

at yoyodyne they were all veterans of the psychic wars
exiled from the eighth dimension where the winds of limbo roar"
mariposa rand mair theal



**** the ******s.


I concur.

Jim
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