Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Hay Scale? (It's made of metal!)

I just bought what I've always called a "hay scale". It's just a
balance beam with a top hook for hanging from wherever, and a bottom
hook for the load. The beam is brass, with a sliding counterweight,
and there are 2 extra weights (iron) for increasing the capacity.
(metal content)

When the counterweight is set to 0, the scale still acts as though
there needs to be more weight attached to the "load" hook. I guess
there was some sort of device added, but I dont know what (if it truly
was a hay scale, I doubt that there would be a pan). The needed extra
weight seems to be on the order of 5 - 10 lbs.

Anyway, I tried searching for information about these things, but got
mostly pay-scale nonsense. Anybody have any links for scale
collectors, or whatever. I have accumulated quite a collection of
various scales and balances, from a lab "chain weight" analytical
balance (measures as little as 0.01 mg), to a Fairbanks-Morse platform
balance that can handle up to 1000 lbs. This is my first foray into
the free-hanging scales, though.

Thanks,
Joe
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Joe fired this volley in
:

When the counterweight is set to 0, the scale still acts as though
there needs to be more weight attached to the "load" hook. I guess
there was some sort of device added, but I dont know what (if it truly
was a hay scale, I doubt that there would be a pan). The needed extra
weight seems to be on the order of 5 - 10 lbs.


It might require a chain-hung pan. It could have been a merchant's scale
for weighing things like nails.

Pictures? Weight range without counterweights?

LLoyd


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Default Hay Scale? (It's made of metal!)

It is probably a cotton scale.

I was told that it was common to have two sets of counterweights. One for
buying and one for selling.

It looks like you got the buying weight.

Paul K. Dickman

"Joe" wrote in message
...
I just bought what I've always called a "hay scale". It's just a
balance beam with a top hook for hanging from wherever, and a bottom
hook for the load. The beam is brass, with a sliding counterweight,
and there are 2 extra weights (iron) for increasing the capacity.
(metal content)

When the counterweight is set to 0, the scale still acts as though
there needs to be more weight attached to the "load" hook. I guess
there was some sort of device added, but I dont know what (if it truly
was a hay scale, I doubt that there would be a pan). The needed extra
weight seems to be on the order of 5 - 10 lbs.

Anyway, I tried searching for information about these things, but got
mostly pay-scale nonsense. Anybody have any links for scale
collectors, or whatever. I have accumulated quite a collection of
various scales and balances, from a lab "chain weight" analytical
balance (measures as little as 0.01 mg), to a Fairbanks-Morse platform
balance that can handle up to 1000 lbs. This is my first foray into
the free-hanging scales, though.

Thanks,
Joe



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"Joe" wrote: I just bought what I've always called a "hay scale". (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It sounds like a steelyard scale (pronounced stilyerd.) I have one hanging
in the living room with a pan, holding some plants. It is constructed so
the beam can be inverted to bring different hooks into play, changing the
ratio. Yours most likely has a pan missing. You could make one or find one
from an old grocery scale. You will have to tinker with the weight, of
course, if you want it to work.


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On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:40:20 -0400, Joe
wrote:

I just bought what I've always called a "hay scale". It's just a
balance beam with a top hook for hanging from wherever, and a bottom
hook for the load. The beam is brass, with a sliding counterweight,
and there are 2 extra weights (iron) for increasing the capacity.
(metal content)

snip

How about a picture or two?

There was a lot of these scales produced for almost an
infinite number of items. Ice scales is another one not yet
mentioned.

I'll take a look in some of my books and see if anything
looks similar if you want to post some picts.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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Default Hay Scale? (It's made of metal!)

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:13:32 -0400, Leon Fisk wrote:

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:40:20 -0400, Joe
wrote:

I just bought what I've always called a "hay scale". It's just a
balance beam with a top hook for hanging from wherever, and a bottom
hook for the load. The beam is brass, with a sliding counterweight,
and there are 2 extra weights (iron) for increasing the capacity.
(metal content)

snip

How about a picture or two?

There was a lot of these scales produced for almost an
infinite number of items. Ice scales is another one not yet
mentioned.

I'll take a look in some of my books and see if anything
looks similar if you want to post some picts.


OK, I posted a photo in the Dropbox: Hay_CottonScale.gif & Hay_CottonScale.txt
Coming from this area, it's possible that it's a cotton scale, but I still don't
know what would have been attached to the left side to bring it level. The scale
is 0 - 50 lbs. Maybe a pan - it took about 2.75 lbs to level it out.

See my note about the extra weights; It looks like I missed a good deal, unless
I can find the dealer again.

Sorry about the file size - IrfanView converted it to a smaller format, but
defaulted to a .gif & I sent it before I realized it was no longer a .jpg.

Joe
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Default Hay Scale? (It's made of metal!)

Leo Lichtman wrote:
"Joe" wrote: I just bought what I've always called a "hay scale". (clip)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
It sounds like a steelyard scale (pronounced stilyerd.) I have one hanging
in the living room with a pan, holding some plants. It is constructed so
the beam can be inverted to bring different hooks into play, changing the
ratio. Yours most likely has a pan missing. You could make one or find one
from an old grocery scale. You will have to tinker with the weight, of
course, if you want it to work.


Yep the one I've used was about 3 ft long and we were using it to
weigh quarters of a beef in the butchering. The quarter were going
in the range of 200+ lbs (for all metric folks I havent any idea
how many Kilos that is :-) ) Havent been doing any butchering for
about 20 yrs now. The business end had a big hook to hang the
quarter on.
...lew...
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Default Hay Scale? (It's made of metal!)

On Apr 17, 9:40*am, Joe wrote:
I just bought what I've always called a "hay scale". It's just a
balance beam with a top hook for hanging from wherever, and a bottom
hook for the load. The beam is brass, with a sliding counterweight,
and there are 2 extra weights (iron) for increasing the capacity.
(metal content)

When the counterweight is set to 0, the scale still acts as though
there needs to be more weight attached to the "load" hook. I guess
there was some sort of device added, but I dont know what (if it truly
was a hay scale, I doubt that there would be a pan). The needed extra
weight seems to be on the order of 5 - 10 lbs.

Anyway, I tried searching for information about these things, but got
mostly pay-scale nonsense. Anybody have any links for scale
collectors, or whatever. I have accumulated quite a collection of
various scales and balances, from a lab "chain weight" analytical
balance (measures as little as 0.01 mg), to a Fairbanks-Morse platform
balance that can handle up to 1000 lbs. This is my first foray into
the free-hanging scales, though.

Thanks,
Joe


Search on "steelyard" and see what you find. Platform scales have
mostly taken over what they used to use the steelyards for, they take
less skill to use. It needs an overhead support to use, a barn or
shop rafter was commonly used. The load end used whatever was needed,
chain with a pan, chain with hook or hooks, whatever. Probably that
has been salvaged. Usually the beam was iron or steel and the one I
have is about 3' long, hence "steelyard", or so I've been told. It
was cheap, portable and gave results accurate enough for the purposes
for which it was used.

Stan
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Default Hay Scale? (It's made of metal!)


"Joe" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 15:13:32 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 11:40:20 -0400, Joe
wrote:

I just bought what I've always called a "hay scale". It's just a
balance beam with a top hook for hanging from wherever, and a bottom
hook for the load. The beam is brass, with a sliding counterweight,
and there are 2 extra weights (iron) for increasing the capacity.
(metal content)

snip

How about a picture or two?

There was a lot of these scales produced for almost an
infinite number of items. Ice scales is another one not yet
mentioned.

I'll take a look in some of my books and see if anything
looks similar if you want to post some picts.


OK, I posted a photo in the Dropbox: Hay_CottonScale.gif &
Hay_CottonScale.txt
Coming from this area, it's possible that it's a cotton scale, but I still
don't
know what would have been attached to the left side to bring it level. The
scale
is 0 - 50 lbs. Maybe a pan - it took about 2.75 lbs to level it out.

See my note about the extra weights; It looks like I missed a good deal,
unless
I can find the dealer again.

Sorry about the file size - IrfanView converted it to a smaller format,
but
defaulted to a .gif & I sent it before I realized it was no longer a .jpg.

Joe


50 lbs is way too light to be for cotton or hay.
From the picture, it looks like the scale the old hardware store used to
weigh nails in. Except it is missing the scoop shaped pan.

Paul K. Dickman


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Default Hay Scale? (It's made of metal!)

Paul K. Dickman wrote:

50 lbs is way too light to be for cotton or hay.
From the picture, it looks like the scale the old hardware store used to
weigh nails in. Except it is missing the scoop shaped pan.

Paul K. Dickman


If one were to hang a counterweight on the loop shown to the right,
would that act as a multiplier? A small counterweight would say double
the reading shown on the slider and a large counterweight might let the
scale read say 500 lbs, max?

--Winston


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"Winston" wrote: If one were to hang a counterweight on the loop shown to
the right,
would that act as a multiplier? (clip)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Physics 1A: No. A counter weight shifts the zero--it does not change the
ratios.


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On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 18:11:17 GMT, "Leo Lichtman"
wrote:


"Winston" wrote: If one were to hang a counterweight on the loop shown to
the right,
would that act as a multiplier? (clip)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Physics 1A: No. A counter weight shifts the zero--it does not change the
ratios.


Right, my large Fairbanks platform scale (as well as all others of
that type I've seen) does exactly that. There are a number of flat,
circular plates that are stacked on a hanging plate that is suspended
from the right side. As you say, the zero is shifted, so the scale
that read from 0 - 200 lbs now reads from (say) 300 - 500 lbs. I
assume that is the purpose of the loop on my scale in question, as
well.

Joe
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On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:02:58 -0500, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:


"Joe" wrote in message
.. .


OK, I posted a photo in the Dropbox: Hay_CottonScale.gif &
Hay_CottonScale.txt
Coming from this area, it's possible that it's a cotton scale, but I still
don't
know what would have been attached to the left side to bring it level. The
scale
is 0 - 50 lbs. Maybe a pan - it took about 2.75 lbs to level it out.

See my note about the extra weights; It looks like I missed a good deal,
unless
I can find the dealer again.

Sorry about the file size - IrfanView converted it to a smaller format,
but
defaulted to a .gif & I sent it before I realized it was no longer a .jpg.

Joe


50 lbs is way too light to be for cotton or hay.
From the picture, it looks like the scale the old hardware store used to
weigh nails in. Except it is missing the scoop shaped pan.

Paul K. Dickman

I was under the impression that a lot of cotton scales were used in
the field to weigh the bags (not bales) as the individual brought them
in. Of course, I don't know how much any one bag would weigh when
full.

One interesting thing about the scale is that the beam is tapered. If
you loosen the counterweight setscrew just a little, it will slide to
the right, but not to the left. There must be a specific reason for
this, but I don't know what it is.

Joe
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Default Hay Scale? (It's made of metal!)

Leo Lichtman wrote:

"Winston" wrote: If one were to hang a counterweight on the loop shown to
the right,

would that act as a multiplier? (clip)


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Physics 1A: No. A counter weight shifts the zero--it does not change the
ratios.


Ah, I see. Thanks

--Winston
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"Joe" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 18 Apr 2008 08:02:58 -0500, "Paul K. Dickman"
wrote:


"Joe" wrote in message
. ..


OK, I posted a photo in the Dropbox: Hay_CottonScale.gif &
Hay_CottonScale.txt
Coming from this area, it's possible that it's a cotton scale, but I
still
don't
know what would have been attached to the left side to bring it level.
The
scale
is 0 - 50 lbs. Maybe a pan - it took about 2.75 lbs to level it out.

See my note about the extra weights; It looks like I missed a good deal,
unless
I can find the dealer again.

Sorry about the file size - IrfanView converted it to a smaller format,
but
defaulted to a .gif & I sent it before I realized it was no longer a
.jpg.

Joe


50 lbs is way too light to be for cotton or hay.
From the picture, it looks like the scale the old hardware store used to
weigh nails in. Except it is missing the scoop shaped pan.

Paul K. Dickman

I was under the impression that a lot of cotton scales were used in
the field to weigh the bags (not bales) as the individual brought them
in. Of course, I don't know how much any one bag would weigh when
full.

One interesting thing about the scale is that the beam is tapered. If
you loosen the counterweight setscrew just a little, it will slide to
the right, but not to the left. There must be a specific reason for
this, but I don't know what it is.

Joe


No, the bags are enormous,usually well over a hundred lbs.

The cotton scales I've seen are all rustic looking things and weigh upwards
to 200lbs.

Here's a picture of one:
http://cgi.ebay.com/Antique-Hand-Cot...QQcmdZViewItem

I think if you showed up at the end of the day with a 50lb sack of cotton,
you'ld be lookin for another line of work.

Paul K. Dickman




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On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:22:22 -0400, Joe
wrote:

OK, I posted a photo in the Dropbox: Hay_CottonScale.gif & Hay_CottonScale.txt
Coming from this area, it's possible that it's a cotton scale, but I still don't
know what would have been attached to the left side to bring it level. The scale
is 0 - 50 lbs. Maybe a pan - it took about 2.75 lbs to level it out.


Hi Joe,

I suspect you only have the beam portion of a platform
scale. Take a look at Fig 1 in this old patent diagram:

http://www.google.com/patents?vid=1072020

It looks like your beam may have been meant to sit in some
sort of framework. That would explain why it doesn't have
any hooks to hang it up with or hang stuff to be weighed on.

The McFarlane patent diagrams also use the same shape of
cut-out on the sliding weight. I couldn't find out much
about McFarlane Manufacturing other than they did make some
platform scales that used a dial indicator...

It seems like I have seen some floor type platform scales
that used a similar balance beam system before. Maybe this
will stir up some other peoples memories of what they looked
like.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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On Sat, 19 Apr 2008 15:26:51 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 22:22:22 -0400, Joe
wrote:

OK, I posted a photo in the Dropbox: Hay_CottonScale.gif & Hay_CottonScale.txt
Coming from this area, it's possible that it's a cotton scale, but I still don't
know what would have been attached to the left side to bring it level. The scale
is 0 - 50 lbs. Maybe a pan - it took about 2.75 lbs to level it out.


Hi Joe,

I suspect you only have the beam portion of a platform
scale. Take a look at Fig 1 in this old patent diagram:

http://www.google.com/patents?vid=1072020

It looks like your beam may have been meant to sit in some
sort of framework. That would explain why it doesn't have
any hooks to hang it up with or hang stuff to be weighed on.

If this were the case, then the upward loop to the left of the sliding
weight would not be there, this would be the place where the knife
edges would rest on the bearings of the scale.

The McFarlane patent diagrams also use the same shape of
cut-out on the sliding weight. I couldn't find out much
about McFarlane Manufacturing other than they did make some
platform scales that used a dial indicator...

This is common to every beam scale I have operated in the range of 5
pounds to 50 tons. Incidentally, this is why my signature is so
terrible - at one time I was signing up to 500 weigh tickets in a 12
hour shift.
It seems like I have seen some floor type platform scales
that used a similar balance beam system before. Maybe this
will stir up some other peoples memories of what they looked
like.

The additional weights may be marked "50" and "100" which would extend
the capacity to 200 pounds.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada
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On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:38:28 -0400, Gerald Miller
wrote:

If this were the case, then the upward loop to the left of the sliding
weight would not be there, this would be the place where the knife
edges would rest on the bearings of the scale.


I was thinking that too until I looked at the patent I
referenced. It has the same loop and yet shows a stand
holding it. McFarlane had several similar patents from this
same time period, all for their dial indicator and beam. One
of the other patent drawings used a hook that held the beam
loop up.

I realize that this could have been a drawing error, but
would rather believe the draftsman just copied something
that was already in existence that they had on hand (shrug).

See this patent for one that they represented using a hook
to grab the loop:

http://www.google.com/patents?vid=1072018

I couldn't find any good images/diagrams that showed how the
beam was implemented in old platform scales...

snip
The additional weights may be marked "50" and "100" which would extend
the capacity to 200 pounds.


The loops are around 5/16-3/8 inch in diameter and so are
the knife edge pins. Seems like pretty stout stuff for just
50 pound capacity.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:24:14 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:38:28 -0400, Gerald Miller
wrote:

If this were the case, then the upward loop to the left of the sliding
weight would not be there, this would be the place where the knife
edges would rest on the bearings of the scale.


I was thinking that too until I looked at the patent I
referenced. It has the same loop and yet shows a stand
holding it. McFarlane had several similar patents from this
same time period, all for their dial indicator and beam. One
of the other patent drawings used a hook that held the beam
loop up.

I realize that this could have been a drawing error, but
would rather believe the draftsman just copied something
that was already in existence that they had on hand (shrug).

See this patent for one that they represented using a hook
to grab the loop:

http://www.google.com/patents?vid=1072018

Now, that is a different configuration

I couldn't find any good images/diagrams that showed how the
beam was implemented in old platform scales...

snip
The additional weights may be marked "50" and "100" which would extend
the capacity to 200 pounds.


The loops are around 5/16-3/8 inch in diameter and so are
the knife edge pins. Seems like pretty stout stuff for just
50 pound capacity.

Gerry :-)}
London, Canada
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On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:38:55 -0400, Gerald Miller wrote:

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 14:24:14 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Sun, 20 Apr 2008 17:38:28 -0400, Gerald Miller
wrote:

If this were the case, then the upward loop to the left of the sliding
weight would not be there, this would be the place where the knife
edges would rest on the bearings of the scale.


I was thinking that too until I looked at the patent I
referenced. It has the same loop and yet shows a stand
holding it. McFarlane had several similar patents from this
same time period, all for their dial indicator and beam. One
of the other patent drawings used a hook that held the beam
loop up.

I realize that this could have been a drawing error, but
would rather believe the draftsman just copied something
that was already in existence that they had on hand (shrug).

See this patent for one that they represented using a hook
to grab the loop:

http://www.google.com/patents?vid=1072018

Now, that is a different configuration

I couldn't find any good images/diagrams that showed how the
beam was implemented in old platform scales...

snip
The additional weights may be marked "50" and "100" which would extend
the capacity to 200 pounds.


The loops are around 5/16-3/8 inch in diameter and so are
the knife edge pins. Seems like pretty stout stuff for just
50 pound capacity.

Gerry :-)}
London, Canada


Wow! Thanks to both of you guys for your comments. Leon, I noticed in the 2nd
patent drawing that there appears to be both a hanging loop and a pillar; seems
a bit redundant. Maybe the pillar is supporting the hanging hook. I'll have to
read the full application later to see if this is explained. Also, you are
correct that the loops are 3/8" dia.

My wife is going back to the flea market tomorrow (it's only open on Wednesdays)
I'm asking her to be on the lookout for the other beam the guy had, which I
think goes with the 2 weights. The undersides of the hooks for those weights
come to a knife edge, and I believe they hung from the notches on the beam of
the other scale. It looked like what around here is called a tobacco scale.
Maybe I'll luck out.

Again, thanks to all who offered help.

Joe
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