clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote in
:

And when CEOs make billions for loosing 10s of billions of dollars you
KNOW the economy is in a HUGE world of hope.

"HOPE"? I don't THINK so!

"HURT" is much more like it!

When CEOs start to settle for a reasonable level of pay companies can
afford to manufacture things here again, and workers can work for an
"honest" wage, and not see the extreme difference between what they
earn PRODUCING and what CEOs earn screwing things up.

CEOs are like Doctors in that they have to make all of their money in a
very short period.

CEOs are unlike Doctors in that they don't have irrationally-high Liability
Insurance payments that have to come out of their own pockets.

Still, a CEO is usually paid according to a Legal Contract between
him/herself and an employer. These contracts often have "Performance"
clauses based NOT on the profitability of the company but upon the revenues
and/or stock performance of the company.

The best-known high-dollar payouts have been the result of a CEO's firing
when the company had to buy-out the CEO's contract.

FWIW, most of the bitching I've seen about CEO payscales seems to come from
individuals who couldn't do a CEO's job and are simply jealous that THEY
couldn't collect that much money. evil grin

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 19:33:09 -0700, the renowned Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 10:32:38 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
Spehro Pefhany quickly quoth:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 05:33:50 -0700, the renowned Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 21:49:13 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada quickly quoth:

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 05:36:20 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

What do you think about taking oil/gas under the public utility
umbrella? I like the idea but haven't quite thought it through yet.

Public utility? What dat?
Hydro used to be public in Ontario. Ain't no more.
Natural gas used to be public utility in many cities. Only a few still
hanging on.
Even our highways are going into private hands - along with airports,
etc etc.

How is that working out for y'all?

All the private sector competition is resulting in higher prices, more
user fees, and taxes only increasing slowly ('till they have spent all
the proceeds from selling off publically owned assets, of course)

Since when does competition increase prices?!?

When a sort of monopoly (a bridge, an expressway, a concession at an
airport, space in the RF spectrum) is sold to the highest bidder...
IOW when the competition is in gaining control over the captive
customers rather than serving the customers.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 17:04:18 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Apr 14, 4:29 am, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 21:56:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Apr 9, 5:27 am, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
Well it looks like we will definitely see $4 dollar gas this summer.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080408/...and;_ylt=Alg4Q...

Any thoughts as to how this will affect us HSMers in the shop?

I already find myself limiting the distance I will drive to view,
purchase and pickup machines and supplies for my shop.

TMT

Wow, $4 a gallon! - thats a really good price, where can I get some? -
here in OZ its $5.30 a gallon, and climbing. Predicted to be $5.67 by
end of next week - something to do with the price of crude in
Singapore going up.) Must be those pesky liberals again, making life
difficult for you guys...

(Gunner will respond with "proof" that this is so....)

Andrew VK3BFA.

Lefties will of course blame this on Bush.

Gunner


That would be far too simplistic Gunner - comforting, yes, but
accurate - no. He is just one silly person , the nominal head of a
whole system that has the planet drowning in its own garbage.
Replacing Mr Bush with "someone else" would make no difference.

Be sure to broadcast this datum to the Left.

But if you feel comfortable blaming left or right, thats fine -
nothing said here can change your mind in any way beyond reinforcing
lifelong beliefs.

See above.

Interestingly enough, the younger people are increasingly blaming our
generation for the mess the world is in. They don't get bogged down in
dinosaur politics - its irrelevant to them - they just damn us all! -
as long as we can find a convenient left/right scapegoat to absolve us
from actually taking any real responsibility at a personal level, they
may well be right.

Andrew VK3bFA.

The young generally didnt give a **** about anything other than sound
bytes with zip data backing those sound bytes up.

Meism and Nowism along with Cliche politics is more their forte.

Gunner



"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

On Apr 14, 1:51 am, Gunner Asch wrote:

DINOSAUR POLITICS!

What a delightful characterization of
your position.

I will leave you with a sample of the depth of "strategy"
of our commander (sic) in chief:
"We've gotta stop them over there BEFORE they
come over here".

You don't have to be a liberal to see how STUPID
THAT is.

Citizen Jimserac

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 00:30:17 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
Spehro Pefhany quickly quoth:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 19:33:09 -0700, the renowned Larry Jaques
wrote:

How is that working out for y'all?

All the private sector competition is resulting in higher prices, more
user fees, and taxes only increasing slowly ('till they have spent all
the proceeds from selling off publically owned assets, of course)

Since when does competition increase prices?!?

When a sort of monopoly (a bridge, an expressway, a concession at an
airport, space in the RF spectrum) is sold to the highest bidder...
IOW when the competition is in gaining control over the captive
customers rather than serving the customers.

Sorta like those uckerfays in oil futures, eh? sigh

I wouldn't call it competition, though. It's more like price gouging.

--
It is better to wear out than to rust out.
-- Bishop Richard Cumberland

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 02:46:56 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Eregon
quickly quoth:

CEOs are like Doctors in that they have to make all of their money in a
very short period.

WhatEVER are you talking about? When's the last time you saw a
silver-haired doctor? I see pictures of them in the newspaper every
week. Most doctors have a 40 year run, minimum. (Unless they, too,
suffer heart problems like their patients.)

--
It is better to wear out than to rust out.
-- Bishop Richard Cumberland

Before enlightenment, chop wood, haul water.
After enlightenment, chop wood, haul water.

Citizen Jimserac wrote in news:9aee4af6-228a-410b-
:

On Apr 14, 1:51 am, Gunner Asch wrote:

DINOSAUR POLITICS!

What a delightful characterization of
your position.

I will leave you with a sample of the depth of "strategy"
of our commander (sic) in chief:
"We've gotta stop them over there BEFORE they
come over here".

You don't have to be a liberal to see how STUPID
THAT is.

Citizen Jimserac


No, but you have to be a liberal to be stupid enough to make such a
statement.


How in your view is stopping them before they come over here and blow up
more stuff and kill more civilians a lack of depth in strategy?? If
someone tells me that they are going to kill my family and blow up my house
I'm not going to wait until it happens, I'm going to make sure one way or
another it CAN'T happen.

Bill

On Apr 14, 11:01 am, Bill wrote:
Citizen Jimserac wrote in news:9aee4af6-228a-410b-
:



On Apr 14, 1:51 am, Gunner Asch wrote:

DINOSAUR POLITICS!

What a delightful characterization of
your position.

I will leave you with a sample of the depth of "strategy"
of our commander (sic) in chief:
"We've gotta stop them over there BEFORE they
come over here".

You don't have to be a liberal to see how STUPID
THAT is.

Citizen Jimserac

No, but you have to be a liberal to be stupid enough to make such a
statement.

How in your view is stopping them before they come over here and blow up
more stuff and kill more civilians a lack of depth in strategy?? If
someone tells me that they are going to kill my family and blow up my house
I'm not going to wait until it happens, I'm going to make sure one way or
another it CAN'T happen.

Bill

BECAUSE WITH OUR OPEN BORDERS AND PORTS...
THEY'RE ALREADY HERE. OBVIOUS.

Citizen Jimserac

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 19:33:09 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 10:32:38 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
Spehro Pefhany quickly quoth:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 05:33:50 -0700, the renowned Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 21:49:13 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada quickly quoth:

On Thu, 10 Apr 2008 05:36:20 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

What do you think about taking oil/gas under the public utility
umbrella? I like the idea but haven't quite thought it through yet.

Public utility? What dat?
Hydro used to be public in Ontario. Ain't no more.
Natural gas used to be public utility in many cities. Only a few still
hanging on.
Even our highways are going into private hands - along with airports,
etc etc.

How is that working out for y'all?

All the private sector competition is resulting in higher prices, more
user fees, and taxes only increasing slowly ('till they have spent all
the proceeds from selling off publically owned assets, of course)

Since when does competition increase prices?!?


Since shareholders demand a positive return and CEOs get multimillion
dollar bonuses.

It's all about PROFIT - and don't tell me you really believe their is
such a thing as COMPETITION in the ENERGY business. I'll bet you
believe in the easter bunny too!!
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 02:46:56 GMT, Eregon wrote:

clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote in
:

And when CEOs make billions for loosing 10s of billions of dollars you
KNOW the economy is in a HUGE world of hope.

"HOPE"? I don't THINK so!

"HURT" is much more like it!

Darn spell checker!!!!!!!
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 19:37:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 11:56:54 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada quickly quoth:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 05:33:50 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 11 Apr 2008 21:49:13 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada quickly quoth:

Even our highways are going into private hands - along with airports,
etc etc.

How is that working out for y'all?
Not well.
Deregulated electricity and gas gets all the swindlers into high
gear.
The
privatized highways (electronic toll) are billing vehicles that have
never been on them, and if your tolls are unpaid you can't get your
tags renewed. If you have a transponder the rates are reasonable. If
you don't you get hit with a no-transponder fee that makes occaisional
use expensive.

That sucks, bigtime.


The government isn't putting enough of our fuel taxes back into road
infrastructure maintenance and repairs.

Ditto here. I was on Pennsyltucky's tollways in '98 and they're even
worse, with much higher tolls.


At least they had enough brains not to allow our aerospace expertise
(developed at taxpayers expense) to be given away to the americans.
Second time in 50 years we stood to loose it all under a conservative
government - this time they had the balls to say NO to the USA. Canada
and the world lost the AVRO ARROW in 1958, and with that loss , the
vast majority of Canada's not inconsequential aerospace expertise.

All because the USA could not allow Canada to be or be seen as having
something better than the US.

Now the USA wanted RadarSat and full controll over the CanadArm and
it's new little brother space manipulator.

Well, good for them.


We will not be held to the role of "Hewers of wood and haulers of
water"

Not this time, anyway.

Bbbbut, you're all lumberjacks (and you're OK), aren't you?


All the lumberjacks are either east of the Ottawa valley or north of
ther 49th. The vast majority of us Canuks live south of the 49th in
central ontario.
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

"Bill" wrote in message
. 97.142...
Citizen Jimserac wrote in news:9aee4af6-228a-410b-
:

On Apr 14, 1:51 am, Gunner Asch wrote:

DINOSAUR POLITICS!

What a delightful characterization of
your position.

I will leave you with a sample of the depth of "strategy"
of our commander (sic) in chief:
"We've gotta stop them over there BEFORE they
come over here".

You don't have to be a liberal to see how STUPID
THAT is.

Citizen Jimserac


No, but you have to be a liberal to be stupid enough to make such a
statement.


How in your view is stopping them before they come over here and blow up
more stuff and kill more civilians a lack of depth in strategy?? If
someone tells me that they are going to kill my family and blow up my
house
I'm not going to wait until it happens, I'm going to make sure one way or
another it CAN'T happen.

Because there's nothing stopping them *now* from coming over here and
blowing up more stuff. And there are fewer trained people here now to stop
them. Our defensive resources are busy, over there.

Bill, the whole idea that we're "stopping them" over there, so they won't
come over here, may be the stupidist strategy idea in the history of the US.
The people we're stopping "over there" aren't the same people who would come
over here, in the first place. Fighting them over there just increases their
incentive to strike over here. And we're wasting our resources fighting
thousands of them over there, when what we really need to do is to protect
against perhaps dozens of them attacking over here. See 9/11 for reference.

--
Ed Huntress

On Apr 13, 12:29*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 12 Apr 2008 21:56:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Apr 9, 5:27 am, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
Well it looks like we will definitely see $4 dollar gas this summer.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080408/...and;_ylt=Alg4Q....

Any thoughts as to how this will affect us HSMers in the shop?

I already find myself limiting the distance I will drive to view,
purchase and pickup machines and supplies for my shop.

TMT

Wow, $4 a gallon! - thats a really good price, where can I get some? -
here in OZ *its $5.30 a gallon, and climbing. Predicted to be $5.67 by
end of next week - something to do with the price of crude in
Singapore going up.) *Must be those pesky liberals again, making life
difficult for you guys...

(Gunner will respond with "proof" that this is so....)

Andrew VK3BFA.

Lefties will of course blame this on Bush.

Gunner

"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And who is the current President?

If he won't take responsibility, let a Democrat do the job who
will. ;)

TMT

On Apr 13, 12:33*pm, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 16:12:20 GMT, Eregon wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote in news:1527e5cd-f350-40f7-
:

Expensive fuel causes everything to become more expensive.

You can thank the various governments (state & federal) for keeping it as
low as it has been for the past half-century. After all, they COULD have
imposed the high taxes that are common in Europe.

I suspect we are at the beginning of a extended period of
hyperinflation.

A repeat of the late 70's?

Closer to the early '80s when the question "How do the folks in Detroit get
15 adults into a VW Beetle?" was answered by "Easy - tell them it's headed
to Texas!"

Wages definitely are not rising.

Wages in many fields/areas were already hyperinflated.

This is/was the cause of much of the "Outsourcing" and the "Offshore
Relocation" mania of the last 2 decades that saw Union jobs replaced by
non-Union jobs.

When burger-flippers expect $10+ /hr. to ask "Do you want fries with
that?" you should already know that the economy is in a World of Hurt.

When Illegal Immigrants earn enough money to buy mid-range homes you should
already know that the economy is in a World of Hurt.

When Welfare pays better than working you should already know that the
economy is in a World of Hurt.

When the Democrat Party was bought by the Peoples' Republic of China over a
decade ago you should expected that the economy would be in a World of Hurt
as the US Standard of Living was brought down to PRC levels.

Well said

Gunner

"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And what has the Republican Congress been doing for a decade or two in
the mean time?

TMT

On Apr 13, 5:26*pm, clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote:
On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 16:12:20 GMT, Eregon wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote in news:1527e5cd-f350-40f7-
:

Expensive fuel causes everything to become more expensive.

You can thank the various governments (state & federal) for keeping it as
low as it has been for the past half-century. After all, they COULD have
imposed the high taxes that are common in Europe.

I suspect we are at the beginning of a extended period of
hyperinflation.

A repeat of the late 70's?

Closer to the early '80s when the question "How do the folks in Detroit get
15 adults into a VW Beetle?" was answered by "Easy - tell them it's headed
to Texas!"

Wages definitely are not rising.

Wages in many fields/areas were already hyperinflated.

This is/was the cause of much of the "Outsourcing" and the "Offshore
Relocation" mania of the last 2 decades that saw Union jobs replaced by
non-Union jobs.

When burger-flippers expect $10+ /hr. to ask "Do you want fries with
that?" you should already know that the economy is in a World of Hurt.

When Illegal Immigrants earn enough money to buy mid-range homes you should
already know that the economy is in a World of Hurt.

When Welfare pays better than working you should already know that the
economy is in a World of Hurt.

When the Democrat Party was bought by the Peoples' Republic of China over a
decade ago you should expected that the economy would be in a World of Hurt
as the US Standard of Living was brought down to PRC levels.

And when CEOs make billions for loosing 10s of billions of dollars you
KNOW the economy is in a HUGE world of hope.
When CEOs start to settle for a reasonable level of pay companies can
afford to manufacture things here again, and workers can work for an
"honest" wage, and not see the extreme difference between what they
earn PRODUCING and what CEOs earn screwing things up.
** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Make that losing hundreds of billions...

You are quite correct.

TMT

On Apr 13, 8:46*pm, Eregon wrote:
clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote :

And when CEOs make billions for loosing 10s of billions of dollars you
KNOW the economy is in a HUGE world of hope.

"HOPE"? I don't THINK so!

"HURT" is much more like it!

When CEOs start to settle for a reasonable level of pay companies can
afford to manufacture things here again, and workers can work for an
"honest" wage, and not see the extreme difference between what they
earn PRODUCING and what CEOs earn screwing things up.

CEOs are like Doctors in that they have to make all of their money in a
very short period.

CEOs are unlike Doctors in that they don't have irrationally-high Liability
Insurance payments that have to come out of their own pockets.

Still, a CEO is usually paid according to a Legal Contract between
him/herself and an employer. These contracts often have "Performance"
clauses based NOT on the profitability of the company but upon the revenues
and/or stock performance of the company.

The best-known high-dollar payouts have been the result of a CEO's firing
when the company had to buy-out the CEO's contract.

FWIW, most of the bitching I've seen about CEO payscales seems to come from
individuals who couldn't do a CEO's job and are simply jealous that THEY
couldn't collect that much money. evil grin

Incorrect.

If they were based on performance we would not see time and again CEOs
raping a company and taking a golden parachute worth tens/hundreds of
millions on their way out.

TMT

On Apr 14, 7:35*am, Citizen Jimserac wrote:
On Apr 14, 1:51 am, Gunner Asch wrote:

DINOSAUR POLITICS!

What a delightful characterization of
your position.

I will leave you with a sample of the depth of "strategy"
of our commander (sic) in chief:
"We've gotta stop them over there BEFORE they
come over here".

You don't have to be a liberal to see how STUPID
THAT is.

Citizen Jimserac

Hmmm..something that Gunner can think about as he pumps his +4 dollar
gas this summer..

TMT

On Apr 14, 10:25*am, Citizen Jimserac wrote:
On Apr 14, 11:01 am, Bill wrote:





Citizen Jimserac wrote in news:9aee4af6-228a-410b-
:

On Apr 14, 1:51 am, Gunner Asch wrote:

DINOSAUR POLITICS!

What a delightful characterization of
your position.

I will leave you with a sample of the depth of "strategy"
of our commander (sic) in chief:
"We've gotta stop them over there BEFORE they
come over here".

You don't have to be a liberal to see how STUPID
THAT is.

Citizen Jimserac

No, but you have to be a liberal to be stupid enough to make such a
statement.

How in your view is stopping them before they come over here and blow up
more stuff and kill more civilians a lack of depth in strategy?? *If
someone tells me that they are going to kill my family and blow up my house
I'm not going to wait until it happens, I'm going to make sure one way or
another it CAN'T happen.

Bill

BECAUSE WITH OUR OPEN BORDERS AND PORTS...
THEY'RE ALREADY HERE. * OBVIOUS.

Citizen Jimserac- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Correct.

And those open borders are because of Bush.

TMT

On Apr 14, 9:01*am, Bill wrote:
Citizen Jimserac wrote in news:9aee4af6-228a-410b-
:





On Apr 14, 1:51 am, Gunner Asch wrote:

DINOSAUR POLITICS!

What a delightful characterization of
your position.

I will leave you with a sample of the depth of "strategy"
of our commander (sic) in chief:
"We've gotta stop them over there BEFORE they
come over here".

You don't have to be a liberal to see how STUPID
THAT is.

Citizen Jimserac

No, but you have to be a liberal to be stupid enough to make such a
statement.

How in your view is stopping them before they come over here and blow up
more stuff and kill more civilians a lack of depth in strategy?? *If
someone tells me that they are going to kill my family and blow up my house
I'm not going to wait until it happens, I'm going to make sure one way or
another it CAN'T happen.

Bill- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

So Bill...could you explain to us why our borders are wide open to
illegal aliens and terrorists because of Bush?

Take all the white space you need.

TMT

On Apr 14, 10:55*am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"Bill" wrote in message

. 97.142...





Citizen Jimserac wrote in news:9aee4af6-228a-410b-
:

On Apr 14, 1:51 am, Gunner Asch wrote:

DINOSAUR POLITICS!

What a delightful characterization of
your position.

I will leave you with a sample of the depth of "strategy"
of our commander (sic) in chief:
"We've gotta stop them over there BEFORE they
come over here".

You don't have to be a liberal to see how STUPID
THAT is.

Citizen Jimserac

No, but you have to be a liberal to be stupid enough to make such a
statement.

How in your view is stopping them before they come over here and blow up
more stuff and kill more civilians a lack of depth in strategy?? *If
someone tells me that they are going to kill my family and blow up my
house
I'm not going to wait until it happens, I'm going to make sure one way or
another it CAN'T happen.

Because there's nothing stopping them *now* from coming over here and
blowing up more stuff. And there are fewer trained people here now to stop
them. Our defensive resources are busy, over there.

Bill, the whole idea that we're "stopping them" over there, so they won't
come over here, may be the stupidist strategy idea in the history of the US.
The people we're stopping "over there" aren't the same people who would come
over here, in the first place. Fighting them over there just increases their
incentive to strike over here. And we're wasting our resources fighting
thousands of them over there, when what we really need to do is to protect
against perhaps dozens of them attacking over here. See 9/11 for reference..

--
Ed Huntress- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

And logic would dictate that the next dozen of terrorists have easily
slipped into the United States along with the millions of illegal
aliens that Bush has allowed to freely cross our boarders.

The blame for the next 9/11 lies squarely on Bush and those who
support him.

TMT

Citizen Jimserac wrote in
:

snip

BECAUSE WITH OUR OPEN BORDERS AND PORTS...
THEY'RE ALREADY HERE. OBVIOUS.

Citizen Jimserac


You need to find caps lock key and turn it off or did you mean to look
completely unhinged.

The boarders need to be tightened up quite a bit and I completely disagree
with the way the President and Congress has dropped the ball, kicked it and
then walked the other way to find it but if you haven't noticed the bad
guys are mostly focused on the middle east since we bitch slapped Saddam.
I'd rather have Al-Qaeda and friends over there trying to blow up people
and places then right in the US trying the same thing.

I'm sure there are sleeper cells all over the US but since they are still
trying to prove we can be driven out of the middle east they've not spent
the energy to do more damage here which allows the Alphabet soup groups
along with homeland security more leeway in finding the ones here.

Bill

clare, at, snyder, dot, ontario, dot, canada wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 19:37:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:.

Bbbbut, you're all lumberjacks (and you're OK), aren't you?

All the lumberjacks are either east of the Ottawa valley or north of
ther 49th. The vast majority of us Canuks live south of the 49th in
central ontario.


So you're not OK? ;-)


--
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On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 06:35:16 -0700 (PDT), Citizen Jimserac
wrote:

On Apr 14, 1:51 am, Gunner Asch wrote:

DINOSAUR POLITICS!

What a delightful characterization of
your position.

I will leave you with a sample of the depth of "strategy"
of our commander (sic) in chief:
"We've gotta stop them over there BEFORE they
come over here".

You don't have to be a liberal to see how STUPID
THAT is.

Citizen Jimserac

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kv4s3fn8jDc




"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:17:34 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


clare, at, snyder, dot, ontario, dot, canada wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 19:37:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:.

Bbbbut, you're all lumberjacks (and you're OK), aren't you?

All the lumberjacks are either east of the Ottawa valley or north of
ther 49th. The vast majority of us Canuks live south of the 49th in
central ontario.


So you're not OK? ;-)

'e puts on women's clothing and hangs around in bars
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

Too_Many_Tools wrote in news:81209b9d-8ea9-436a-
:

And what has the Republican Congress been doing for a decade or two in
the mean time?

Trying to keep the Dumberncraps from spending MY money!

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 02:46:56 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Eregon
quickly quoth:

CEOs are like Doctors in that they have to make all of their money in a
very short period.

WhatEVER are you talking about? When's the last time you saw a
silver-haired doctor? I see pictures of them in the newspaper every
week. Most doctors have a 40 year run, minimum. (Unless they, too,
suffer heart problems like their patients.)


This past Friday - two of them, in fact.

While some continue as "Family Practice Specialists" [AKA GP's], the rapid
advance of medicine renders many specialists - including many Surgeons -
obsolete within 20 years.

For that matter, large numbers of Specialists have elected to revert to
being GPs simply because of the insanely-high Malpractice Insurance
Premiums demanded for their specialities. [Neurosurgery, for example]

clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote in
:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 02:46:56 GMT, Eregon wrote:

clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote in
m:

And when CEOs make billions for loosing 10s of billions of dollars you
KNOW the economy is in a HUGE world of hope.

"HOPE"? I don't THINK so!

"HURT" is much more like it!

Darn spell checker!!!!!!!
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **


You're forgiven. g

Too_Many_Tools wrote in
:

On Apr 13, 8:46*pm, Eregon wrote:
clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote
innews:dd5504p0etbfj4o56irca4
:

And when CEOs make billions for loosing 10s of billions of dollars
you KNOW the economy is in a HUGE world of hope.

"HOPE"? I don't THINK so!

"HURT" is much more like it!

When CEOs start to settle for a reasonable level of pay companies
can afford to manufacture things here again, and workers can work
for an "honest" wage, and not see the extreme difference between
what they earn PRODUCING and what CEOs earn screwing things up.

CEOs are like Doctors in that they have to make all of their money in
a very short period.

CEOs are unlike Doctors in that they don't have irrationally-high
Liabilit
y
Insurance payments that have to come out of their own pockets.

Still, a CEO is usually paid according to a Legal Contract between
him/herself and an employer. These contracts often have "Performance"
clauses based NOT on the profitability of the company but upon the
revenue
s
and/or stock performance of the company.

The best-known high-dollar payouts have been the result of a CEO's
firing when the company had to buy-out the CEO's contract.

FWIW, most of the bitching I've seen about CEO payscales seems to
come fro
m
individuals who couldn't do a CEO's job and are simply jealous that
THEY couldn't collect that much money. evil grin

Incorrect.

If they were based on performance we would not see time and again CEOs
raping a company and taking a golden parachute worth tens/hundreds of
millions on their way out.

TMT


Sure we would - it's in their CONTRACT! G

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:55:44 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Bill" wrote in message
How in your view is stopping them before they come over here and blow up
more stuff and kill more civilians a lack of depth in strategy?? If
someone tells me that they are going to kill my family and blow up my
house
I'm not going to wait until it happens, I'm going to make sure one way or
another it CAN'T happen.

Because there's nothing stopping them *now* from coming over here and
blowing up more stuff. And there are fewer trained people here now to stop
them. Our defensive resources are busy, over there.

What? You feel that our highly trained airport goons aren't any good?
That our holey border fences north and south won't stop the tangoes?


Bill, the whole idea that we're "stopping them" over there, so they won't
come over here, may be the stupidist strategy idea in the history of the US.
The people we're stopping "over there" aren't the same people who would come
over here, in the first place. Fighting them over there just increases their
incentive to strike over here.

Ironic, ain't it?


And we're wasting our resources fighting
thousands of them over there, when what we really need to do is to protect
against perhaps dozens of them attacking over here. See 9/11 for reference.

Awww, you were doing so well, too, Ed. The glitch is that we cannot
protect ourselves or our country from terrorist attacks, period. We
can catch several (maybe even most) attempts, but we can't get all of
them. And that included both foreign and domestic terrorists. You or
anyone you know (or don't know) could cause any one of hundreds of
terrorist acts and nobody would be the wiser until it was over.
That's its beauty (when our military needs it) and terror (when they
do it to us.)

--
It is better to wear out than to rust out.
-- Bishop Richard Cumberland

Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:17:34 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


clare, at, snyder, dot, ontario, dot, canada wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 19:37:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:.

Bbbbut, you're all lumberjacks (and you're OK), aren't you?

All the lumberjacks are either east of the Ottawa valley or north of
ther 49th. The vast majority of us Canuks live south of the 49th in
central ontario.


So you're not OK? ;-)

'e puts on women's clothing and hangs around in bars


I guess that you have to make your own entertainment during those
long Canadian winters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clPYfaTvHT0

http://www.geocities.com/fang_club/lumberjack_song.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lumberjack_Song


--
aioe.org is home to cowards and terrorists

Add this line to your news proxy nfilter.dat file
* drop Path:*aioe.org!not-for-mail to drop all aioe.org traffic.

http://improve-usenet.org/index.html


Use any search engine other than Google till they stop polluting USENET
with porn and junk commercial SPAM

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:08:52 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
Spehro Pefhany quickly quoth:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:17:34 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


clare, at, snyder, dot, ontario, dot, canada wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 19:37:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:.

Bbbbut, you're all lumberjacks (and you're OK), aren't you?

All the lumberjacks are either east of the Ottawa valley or north of
ther 49th. The vast majority of us Canuks live south of the 49th in
central ontario.


So you're not OK? ;-)

'e puts on women's clothing and hangs around in bars

He must not have as good a taste in comedy as we do, Spehro.

--
It is better to wear out than to rust out.
-- Bishop Richard Cumberland

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:28:42 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Eregon
quickly quoth:

Larry Jaques wrote in
:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 02:46:56 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Eregon
quickly quoth:

CEOs are like Doctors in that they have to make all of their money in a
very short period.

WhatEVER are you talking about? When's the last time you saw a
silver-haired doctor? I see pictures of them in the newspaper every
week. Most doctors have a 40 year run, minimum. (Unless they, too,
suffer heart problems like their patients.)


This past Friday - two of them, in fact.

While some continue as "Family Practice Specialists" [AKA GP's], the rapid
advance of medicine renders many specialists - including many Surgeons -
obsolete within 20 years.

So, do MDs in your area go out of business once their specialty has
run its course?


For that matter, large numbers of Specialists have elected to revert to
being GPs simply because of the insanely-high Malpractice Insurance
Premiums demanded for their specialities. [Neurosurgery, for example]

Ah, so they don't make money looking at 132 coughs, colds, sprains,
and abrasions every day...at $140 a pop? Poor guys!

--
It is better to wear out than to rust out.
-- Bishop Richard Cumberland

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:08:52 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
Spehro Pefhany quickly quoth:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:17:34 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


clare, at, snyder, dot, ontario, dot, canada wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 19:37:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:.

Bbbbut, you're all lumberjacks (and you're OK), aren't you?

All the lumberjacks are either east of the Ottawa valley or north of
ther 49th. The vast majority of us Canuks live south of the 49th in
central ontario.


So you're not OK? ;-)

'e puts on women's clothing and hangs around in bars

OK, turn the volume UP, boys and girls.

In case Clare hasn't heard it, here is the object of my inference:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clPYfaTvHT0

And another fun one, decanted much more recently:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4ajZ...eature=related

And last, while you're still there, one of my all-time faves:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKeQp...eature=related

Metal content: They wear armor (if you watch some of the Holy Grail
also linked on the YouTube page.)

--
It is better to wear out than to rust out.
-- Bishop Richard Cumberland

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 19:34:53 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Spehro Pefhany wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:17:34 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


clare, at, snyder, dot, ontario, dot, canada wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 19:37:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:.

Bbbbut, you're all lumberjacks (and you're OK), aren't you?

All the lumberjacks are either east of the Ottawa valley or north of
ther 49th. The vast majority of us Canuks live south of the 49th in
central ontario.


So you're not OK? ;-)

'e puts on women's clothing and hangs around in bars


No, I build airplanes
and silly bikes
I'm not a "hoser" - I don't drink beer.

I guess that you have to make your own entertainment during those
long Canadian winters.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clPYfaTvHT0

http://www.geocities.com/fang_club/lumberjack_song.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Lumberjack_Song

** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 15:08:52 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
Spehro Pefhany quickly quoth:

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 14:17:34 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


clare, at, snyder, dot, ontario, dot, canada wrote:

On Sun, 13 Apr 2008 19:37:38 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:.

Bbbbut, you're all lumberjacks (and you're OK), aren't you?

All the lumberjacks are either east of the Ottawa valley or north of
ther 49th. The vast majority of us Canuks live south of the 49th in
central ontario.


So you're not OK? ;-)

'e puts on women's clothing and hangs around in bars

He must not have as good a taste in comedy as we do, Spehro.


He, who?


--
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Add this line to your news proxy nfilter.dat file
* drop Path:*aioe.org!not-for-mail to drop all aioe.org traffic.

http://improve-usenet.org/index.html


Use any search engine other than Google till they stop polluting USENET
with porn and junk commercial SPAM

clare, at, snyder, dot, ontario, dot, canada wrote:

No, I build airplanes
and silly bikes


Like I said, you make your own entertainment.


I'm not a "hoser" - I don't drink beer.


Haven't had one in about 34 years, or any other alcohol for that
matter. I always had something else to spend money on, and you can't do
good work when you're drunk.


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On Apr 14, 11:57*am, Bill wrote:
Citizen Jimserac wrote :

snip



BECAUSE WITH OUR OPEN BORDERS AND PORTS...
THEY'RE ALREADY HERE. * OBVIOUS.

Citizen Jimserac

You need to find caps lock key and turn it off or did you mean to look
completely unhinged.

The boarders need to be tightened up quite a bit and I completely disagree
with the way the President and Congress has dropped the ball, kicked it and
then walked the other way to find it but if you haven't noticed the bad
guys are mostly focused on the middle east since we bitch slapped Saddam.
I'd rather have Al-Qaeda and friends over there trying to blow up people
and places then right in the US trying the same thing. *

I'm sure there are sleeper cells all over the US but since they are still
trying to prove we can be driven out of the middle east they've not spent
the energy to do more damage here which allows the Alphabet soup groups
along with homeland security more leeway in finding the ones here.

Bill *

Bill...sleeper cells wait for the right time(s).

The fact that they ARE here and have not acted YET speaks volumes.

That fact keeps a lot of good law enforcement people awake at night.

TMT

On Apr 14, 2:48*pm, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 12:55:44 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:



"Bill" wrote in message
How in your view is stopping them before they come over here and blow up
more stuff and kill more civilians a lack of depth in strategy?? *If
someone tells me that they are going to kill my family and blow up my
house
I'm not going to wait until it happens, I'm going to make sure one way or
another it CAN'T happen.

Because there's nothing stopping them *now* from coming over here and
blowing up more stuff. And there are fewer trained people here now to stop
them. Our defensive resources are busy, over there.

What? *You feel that our highly trained airport goons aren't any good?
That our holey border fences north and south won't stop the tangoes?

Bill, the whole idea that we're "stopping them" over there, so they won't
come over here, may be the stupidist strategy idea in the history of the US.
The people we're stopping "over there" aren't the same people who would come
over here, in the first place. Fighting them over there just increases their
incentive to strike over here.

Ironic, ain't it?

And we're wasting our resources fighting
thousands of them over there, when what we really need to do is to protect
against perhaps dozens of them attacking over here. See 9/11 for reference.

Awww, you were doing so well, too, Ed. The glitch is that we cannot
protect ourselves or our country from terrorist attacks, period. *We
can catch several (maybe even most) attempts, but we can't get all of
them. And that included both foreign and domestic terrorists. You or
anyone you know (or don't know) could cause any one of hundreds of
terrorist acts and nobody would be the wiser until it was over.
That's its beauty (when our military needs it) and terror (when they
do it to us.)

--
It is better to wear out than to rust out.
* * * * * * -- Bishop Richard Cumberland

Very good points.

TMT

On Apr 14, 1:28*pm, Eregon wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote :

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 02:46:56 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, Eregon
quickly quoth:

CEOs are like Doctors in that they have to make all of their money in a
very short period.

WhatEVER are you talking about? *When's the last time you saw a
silver-haired doctor? *I see pictures of them in the newspaper every
week. Most doctors have a 40 year run, minimum. (Unless they, too,
suffer heart problems like their patients.)

This past Friday - two of them, in fact.

While some continue as "Family Practice Specialists" [AKA GP's], the rapid
advance of medicine renders many specialists - including many Surgeons -
obsolete within 20 years.

For that matter, large numbers of Specialists have elected to revert to
being GPs simply because of the insanely-high Malpractice Insurance
Premiums demanded for their specialities. [Neurosurgery, for example]

Agreed...it is good to live in a country where doctors just can't bury
their mistakes and move on to the next victum...err I mean patient.

If you have been paying attention, you will note that insurance
companies are now laying the groundwork to ship patients off shore for
medical care...all types of it. The little detail they forget to
mention to the patients is that if something goes wrong, there is no
recourse legally.

If you don't like it, you can always pay the total bill yourself.

TMT