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  #171   Report Post  
Old April 21st 08, 07:52 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,502
Default $4 dollar gas and its effects on metalworking

On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 03:55:15 -0700 (PDT), Citizen Jimserac
wrote:

On Apr 20, 10:53 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"CitizenJimserac" wrote in message

...



On Apr 17, 10:18 am, Gunner wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 06:09:54 -0700 (PDT), wrote:


The young generally didnt give a **** about anything other than sound
bytes with zip data backing those sound bytes up.


Meism and Nowism along with Cliche politics is more their forte.


Gunner


Well, yes - agree. They have largely given up, they have seen their
elders engage in endless vituperative debate, and nothing happens
except things get worse..why should they give a rats arse about the
dinosaurs, thrashing around, making lots of noise, but basically doing
nothing except blaming "someone else"....so, can opening themselves,
listening to sound bites, me too isms - desperately hoping, without
any real conviction, that someone will offer hope and inspiration, not
just more lies and broken promises.........


$4 gas is the least of our problems.....


Given up? The little skulls filled with mush never started. They were
educated to be leftards..which took too much effort so they have
simply become semimoble couch potatos who bow to the latest fashion
trends which make them all look the same, with little incentive to do
anything other than ****, get drunk and have a ready supply of
ringtones to download.


Gunner


And here we see a rare agreement between my views and Gunner's.
BOTH liberals and the right were
involved in the deceptive "re-engineering"
of our educational system over a period of
decades starting over 100 years ago.


Real education, it was decided,
was for the elite classes and
what was needed was a system
of "socialization" and indoctrination
to produce happy non-thinking
obedient worker drones
and cannon fodder for the military.


The logical problem with this kind of claim is that the people making it,
including Gunner and, perhaps, you, are all products of this "indoctrinating
educational system." Presumably you then are either a happy non-thinking
obedient worker drone, or cannon fodder.

It's clear that most people are aware of what the problems are; complaints
about education are nearly universal, so it's safe to say that nearly
everyone else recognizes the same things that you do. Maybe education hasn't
hurt them none; they can read the writing on the wall. Somehow, they've
escaped the grand conspiracy to turn them into mindless drones.

--
Ed Huntress


"Spare yourself the anxiety of thinking of this
school thing as a conspiracy, even though the
project is indeed riddled with petty conspirators.
It was and is a fully rational transaction in which
all of us play a part. We trade the liberty of our
kids and our free will for a secure social order
and a very prosperous economy. It's a bargain
in which most of us agree to become as children
ourselves, under the same tutelage which holds
the young, in exchange for food, entertainment,
and safety. The difficulty is that the contract fixes
the goal of human life so low that students go
mad trying to escape it."
Quoted from "The Underground History of American Education"
by John Taylor Gatto.

We are all prodcuts of some system or other
but there are enough misfits, loners and individualists
to escape the zombification process and become
real thinking human beings. Plenty have done it
and, with the incredibly liberating power of the Internet,
the medium in which we are now having this exchange,
the process is accelerated.

Citizen Jimserac



Well said

Gunner


"[L]iberals are afraid to state what they truly believe in, for to do so
would result in even less votes than they currently receive. Their
methodology is to lie about their real agenda in the hopes of regaining
power, at which point they will do whatever they damn well please. The
problem is they have concealed and obfuscated for so long that, as a group,
they themselves are no longer sure of their goals. They are a collection of
wild-eyed splinter groups, all holding a grab-bag of dreams and wishes. Some
want a Socialist, secular-humanist state, others the repeal of the Second
Amendment. Some want same sex/different species marriage, others want voting
rights for trees, fish, coal and bugs. Some want cradle to grave care and
complete subservience to the government nanny state, others want a culture
that walks in lockstep and speaks only with intonations of political
correctness. I view the American liberals in much the same way I view the
competing factions of Islamic
fundamentalists. The latter hate each other to the core, and only join
forces to attack the US or Israel. The former hate themselves to the core,
and only join forces to attack George Bush and conservatives." --Ron Marr

  #172   Report Post  
Old April 21st 08, 08:54 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Nov 2006
Posts: 12,529
Default $4 dollar gas and its effects on metalworking


"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 21 Apr 2008 03:55:15 -0700 (PDT), Citizen Jimserac
wrote:

On Apr 20, 10:53 am, "Ed Huntress" wrote:
"CitizenJimserac" wrote in message

...



On Apr 17, 10:18 am, Gunner wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 06:09:54 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

The young generally didnt give a **** about anything other than
sound
bytes with zip data backing those sound bytes up.

Meism and Nowism along with Cliche politics is more their forte.

Gunner

Well, yes - agree. They have largely given up, they have seen their
elders engage in endless vituperative debate, and nothing happens
except things get worse..why should they give a rats arse about the
dinosaurs, thrashing around, making lots of noise, but basically
doing
nothing except blaming "someone else"....so, can opening themselves,
listening to sound bites, me too isms - desperately hoping, without
any real conviction, that someone will offer hope and inspiration,
not
just more lies and broken promises.........

$4 gas is the least of our problems.....

Given up? The little skulls filled with mush never started. They
were
educated to be leftards..which took too much effort so they have
simply become semimoble couch potatos who bow to the latest fashion
trends which make them all look the same, with little incentive to do
anything other than ****, get drunk and have a ready supply of
ringtones to download.

Gunner

And here we see a rare agreement between my views and Gunner's.
BOTH liberals and the right were
involved in the deceptive "re-engineering"
of our educational system over a period of
decades starting over 100 years ago.

Real education, it was decided,
was for the elite classes and
what was needed was a system
of "socialization" and indoctrination
to produce happy non-thinking
obedient worker drones
and cannon fodder for the military.

The logical problem with this kind of claim is that the people making
it,
including Gunner and, perhaps, you, are all products of this
"indoctrinating
educational system." Presumably you then are either a happy non-thinking
obedient worker drone, or cannon fodder.

It's clear that most people are aware of what the problems are;
complaints
about education are nearly universal, so it's safe to say that nearly
everyone else recognizes the same things that you do. Maybe education
hasn't
hurt them none; they can read the writing on the wall. Somehow, they've
escaped the grand conspiracy to turn them into mindless drones.

--
Ed Huntress


"Spare yourself the anxiety of thinking of this
school thing as a conspiracy, even though the
project is indeed riddled with petty conspirators.
It was and is a fully rational transaction in which
all of us play a part. We trade the liberty of our
kids and our free will for a secure social order
and a very prosperous economy. It's a bargain
in which most of us agree to become as children
ourselves, under the same tutelage which holds
the young, in exchange for food, entertainment,
and safety. The difficulty is that the contract fixes
the goal of human life so low that students go
mad trying to escape it."
Quoted from "The Underground History of American Education"
by John Taylor Gatto.

We are all prodcuts of some system or other
but there are enough misfits, loners and individualists
to escape the zombification process and become
real thinking human beings. Plenty have done it
and, with the incredibly liberating power of the Internet,
the medium in which we are now having this exchange,
the process is accelerated.

Citizen Jimserac



Well said

Gunner


But how would you know, Gunner? Aren't you a product of the system yourself?

Or are you one of those who bemoan the education system -- which is
practically everyone -- and who feels that he is one of the exceptions, who
avoided the "zombification"? But, if nearly everyone who criticizes the
education system is among those who escaped, that means nearly everyone
escaped. Which means, of course, that the "zombification" didn't work, and
that you aren't one of the exceptions at all. You're one of the mainstream.

You've got yourself on the horns of a dilemma, Gunner. And they have very
sharp horns indeed.

--
Ed Huntress


  #173   Report Post  
Old April 22nd 08, 05:48 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Jan 2008
Posts: 658
Default $4 dollar gas and its effects on metalworking


On Apr 17, 10:18 am, Gunner wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 06:09:54 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

The young generally didnt give a **** about anything other than
sound
bytes with zip data backing those sound bytes up.

Meism and Nowism along with Cliche politics is more their forte.

Gunner

Well, yes - agree. They have largely given up, they have seen their
elders engage in endless vituperative debate, and nothing happens
except things get worse..why should they give a rats arse about the
dinosaurs, thrashing around, making lots of noise, but basically
doing
nothing except blaming "someone else"....so, can opening

themselves,
listening to sound bites, me too isms - desperately hoping, without
any real conviction, that someone will offer hope and inspiration,
not
just more lies and broken promises.........

$4 gas is the least of our problems.....

Given up? The little skulls filled with mush never started. They

were
educated to be leftards..which took too much effort so they have
simply become semimoble couch potatos who bow to the latest fashion
trends which make them all look the same, with little incentive to

do
anything other than ****, get drunk and have a ready supply of
ringtones to download.

Gunner

And here we see a rare agreement between my views and Gunner's.
BOTH liberals and the right were
involved in the deceptive "re-engineering"
of our educational system over a period of
decades starting over 100 years ago.

Real education, it was decided,
was for the elite classes and
what was needed was a system
of "socialization" and indoctrination
to produce happy non-thinking
obedient worker drones
and cannon fodder for the military.

The logical problem with this kind of claim is that the people making

it,
including Gunner and, perhaps, you, are all products of this
"indoctrinating
educational system." Presumably you then are either a happy

non-thinking
obedient worker drone, or cannon fodder.

It's clear that most people are aware of what the problems are;
complaints
about education are nearly universal, so it's safe to say that nearly
everyone else recognizes the same things that you do. Maybe education
hasn't
hurt them none; they can read the writing on the wall. Somehow, they've
escaped the grand conspiracy to turn them into mindless drones.

--
Ed Huntress


"Spare yourself the anxiety of thinking of this
school thing as a conspiracy, even though the
project is indeed riddled with petty conspirators.
It was and is a fully rational transaction in which
all of us play a part. We trade the liberty of our
kids and our free will for a secure social order
and a very prosperous economy. It's a bargain
in which most of us agree to become as children
ourselves, under the same tutelage which holds
the young, in exchange for food, entertainment,
and safety. The difficulty is that the contract fixes
the goal of human life so low that students go
mad trying to escape it."
Quoted from "The Underground History of American Education"
by John Taylor Gatto.


Gatto wrote an article for _Harper's_ a few years ago, which supposedly
summarized his argument. I remember thinking at the time that it sounded
like elaborated and generalized grumbling; the Prussian connection was
evidence of nothing much, IMO, as education has always been a kind of
socialization, and the Prussian model just happened to be the one that was
widely admired at the time American public education was becoming
generalized.

The trouble with Gatto's complaint, as well as most complaints about
education, is that the complaints all tend to sound the same, but the
solutions are all contradictory. The complaints are that we know too

little,
that we think too little, or that we're unable to learn anything except

what
we're spoon-fed. The solutions are that we spend too little time in

school;
we spend too much time in school (Gatto's position). School is too
permissive; school is too authoritarian. We spend too much time teaching

by
rote; we don't require kids to commit to memory the foundations of western
thought.

And on, and on, and on. No two critics see the problem in the same way,

and
few offer remedies that aren't contradicting the *last* remedy that

someone
published.

All they have in common is that they don't like what's going on. They all
seem to have a utopian vision of what education should be, but their

utopias
contradict each other.

It makes one skeptical about the whole enterprise.


We are all prodcuts of some system or other
but there are enough misfits, loners and individualists
to escape the zombification process and become
real thinking human beings. Plenty have done it
and, with the incredibly liberating power of the Internet,
the medium in which we are now having this exchange,
the process is accelerated.

Citizen Jimserac


That sounds like a retread of most complaints about education we've been
hearing for 50 years or more. Now it's the Internet. Good luck.

--
Ed Huntress



I think the complainers have forgotten what we had before the adoption of
universal public education. It used to be that everyone was ignorant and
illiterate except for a tiny minority of elites that were able to pay for a
private education or tutoring. When it was decided that everyone would
benefit from universal education some kind of system where all children were
to be "educated" had to be chosen. For many years the system we had was the
envy of the world and was unquestionably the best system invented to educate
the children of an entire nation. Now it's charged with doing the same job
for a country of 300 million with a huge number of children of different
countries speaking different languages as well an underclass and a huge
income disparity to deal with. All in all it's still doing a rather
remarkable job. In addition, if you look at what the statistics are when you
take out blacks and Hispanics you find that the system is excellent. An
objective view shows that the minorities throw the stats way out of whack by
pulling down the averages for the whole system. What's ironic is that the
minorities take the least advantage of our free system and by all accounts
they would benefit the most from it. What's that saying about advice most
needed is advice least heeded? Those who need it the most use it the least.
No wonder the system appears broken. I think it's not the system that's
flawed but the children who are in it.

Hawke


  #174   Report Post  
Old April 22nd 08, 05:51 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,380
Default $4 dollar gas and its effects on metalworking

On Apr 19, 12:03*pm, Eregon wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote :





On Apr 15, 10:53*pm, Eregon wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote
innews:4a50e39d-af69-4b4f-

:


On Apr 14, 1:28*pm, Eregon wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote
innews:rgn604deg7di6h2c
:


On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 02:46:56 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm,
Eregon quickly quoth:


CEOs are like Doctors in that they have to make all of their
money in a very short period.


WhatEVER are you talking about? *When's the last time you saw a
silver-haired doctor? *I see pictures of them in the newspaper
every week. Most doctors have a 40 year run, minimum. (Unless
they, too, suffer heart problems like their patients.)


This past Friday - two of them, in fact.


While some continue as "Family Practice Specialists" [AKA GP's],
the rapid


advance of medicine renders many specialists - including many
Surgeons - obsolete within 20 years.


For that matter, large numbers of Specialists have elected to
revert to being GPs simply because of the insanely-high
Malpractice Insurance Premiums demanded for their specialities.
[Neurosurgery, for example]


Agreed...it is good to live in a country where doctors just can't
bury their mistakes and move on to the next victum...err I mean
patient.


If you have been paying attention, you will note that insurance
companies are now laying the groundwork to ship patients off shore
for medical care...all types of it. The little detail they forget
to mention to the patients is that if something goes wrong, there
is no recourse legally.


If you don't like it, you can always pay the total bill yourself.


TMT


ROFLMAO!!!


Shipping patients offshore?


People come to this area from all over the world just for the Medical
Care. G


If Jerry Lewis hadn't come to this area for his Medical Care he'd
have died over a decade ago.


Perhaps you are ignorant of the Texas Medical Center in Houston - the
"home" of the Texas Heart Institute, Baylor College of Medicine, M.
D. Anderson Cancer Institute, and many others.


You really should learn more about things before you start flapping
your mouth about them.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


I am feeling charitable tonight...here's a crumb for a poor
conservative.


http://www.rediff.com/money/2008/mar/25hospital.htm


Now who is flapping their mouth about things before doing his
homework? ;)


Be sure to thank your insurance company for putting profits before
your welfare.


TMT


He elected to go there - he wasn't required to do so.

One good reason that he might have made such a decision would be to keep
his employer from learning the results.

Another good reason would have been if he'd wanted to deduct the travel
expenses from his Income Taxes, including his "stopover" in Bangkok's Red
Light District. grin

If THAT was the reason, he'd have even more reason to conceal the actual
purpose of his trip: AIDS treatment.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


LOL...you get a freebie cite and still deny it.

It sounds like you got a Red State education.

Thanks for playing.

TMT
  #175   Report Post  
Old April 22nd 08, 06:48 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Nov 2006
Posts: 12,529
Default $4 dollar gas and its effects on metalworking


"Hawke" wrote in message
...

On Apr 17, 10:18 am, Gunner wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2008 06:09:54 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

The young generally didnt give a **** about anything other than
sound
bytes with zip data backing those sound bytes up.

Meism and Nowism along with Cliche politics is more their forte.

Gunner

Well, yes - agree. They have largely given up, they have seen
their
elders engage in endless vituperative debate, and nothing happens
except things get worse..why should they give a rats arse about
the
dinosaurs, thrashing around, making lots of noise, but basically
doing
nothing except blaming "someone else"....so, can opening

themselves,
listening to sound bites, me too isms - desperately hoping,
without
any real conviction, that someone will offer hope and inspiration,
not
just more lies and broken promises.........

$4 gas is the least of our problems.....

Given up? The little skulls filled with mush never started. They

were
educated to be leftards..which took too much effort so they have
simply become semimoble couch potatos who bow to the latest fashion
trends which make them all look the same, with little incentive to

do
anything other than ****, get drunk and have a ready supply of
ringtones to download.

Gunner

And here we see a rare agreement between my views and Gunner's.
BOTH liberals and the right were
involved in the deceptive "re-engineering"
of our educational system over a period of
decades starting over 100 years ago.

Real education, it was decided,
was for the elite classes and
what was needed was a system
of "socialization" and indoctrination
to produce happy non-thinking
obedient worker drones
and cannon fodder for the military.

The logical problem with this kind of claim is that the people making

it,
including Gunner and, perhaps, you, are all products of this
"indoctrinating
educational system." Presumably you then are either a happy

non-thinking
obedient worker drone, or cannon fodder.

It's clear that most people are aware of what the problems are;
complaints
about education are nearly universal, so it's safe to say that nearly
everyone else recognizes the same things that you do. Maybe education
hasn't
hurt them none; they can read the writing on the wall. Somehow,
they've
escaped the grand conspiracy to turn them into mindless drones.

--
Ed Huntress

"Spare yourself the anxiety of thinking of this
school thing as a conspiracy, even though the
project is indeed riddled with petty conspirators.
It was and is a fully rational transaction in which
all of us play a part. We trade the liberty of our
kids and our free will for a secure social order
and a very prosperous economy. It's a bargain
in which most of us agree to become as children
ourselves, under the same tutelage which holds
the young, in exchange for food, entertainment,
and safety. The difficulty is that the contract fixes
the goal of human life so low that students go
mad trying to escape it."
Quoted from "The Underground History of American Education"
by John Taylor Gatto.


Gatto wrote an article for _Harper's_ a few years ago, which supposedly
summarized his argument. I remember thinking at the time that it sounded
like elaborated and generalized grumbling; the Prussian connection was
evidence of nothing much, IMO, as education has always been a kind of
socialization, and the Prussian model just happened to be the one that
was
widely admired at the time American public education was becoming
generalized.

The trouble with Gatto's complaint, as well as most complaints about
education, is that the complaints all tend to sound the same, but the
solutions are all contradictory. The complaints are that we know too

little,
that we think too little, or that we're unable to learn anything except

what
we're spoon-fed. The solutions are that we spend too little time in

school;
we spend too much time in school (Gatto's position). School is too
permissive; school is too authoritarian. We spend too much time teaching

by
rote; we don't require kids to commit to memory the foundations of
western
thought.

And on, and on, and on. No two critics see the problem in the same way,

and
few offer remedies that aren't contradicting the *last* remedy that

someone
published.

All they have in common is that they don't like what's going on. They all
seem to have a utopian vision of what education should be, but their

utopias
contradict each other.

It makes one skeptical about the whole enterprise.


We are all prodcuts of some system or other
but there are enough misfits, loners and individualists
to escape the zombification process and become
real thinking human beings. Plenty have done it
and, with the incredibly liberating power of the Internet,
the medium in which we are now having this exchange,
the process is accelerated.

Citizen Jimserac


That sounds like a retread of most complaints about education we've been
hearing for 50 years or more. Now it's the Internet. Good luck.

--
Ed Huntress



I think the complainers have forgotten what we had before the adoption of
universal public education. It used to be that everyone was ignorant and
illiterate except for a tiny minority of elites that were able to pay for
a
private education or tutoring. When it was decided that everyone would
benefit from universal education some kind of system where all children
were
to be "educated" had to be chosen. For many years the system we had was
the
envy of the world and was unquestionably the best system invented to
educate
the children of an entire nation. Now it's charged with doing the same job
for a country of 300 million with a huge number of children of different
countries speaking different languages as well an underclass and a huge
income disparity to deal with. All in all it's still doing a rather
remarkable job. In addition, if you look at what the statistics are when
you
take out blacks and Hispanics you find that the system is excellent. An
objective view shows that the minorities throw the stats way out of whack
by
pulling down the averages for the whole system. What's ironic is that the
minorities take the least advantage of our free system and by all accounts
they would benefit the most from it. What's that saying about advice most
needed is advice least heeded? Those who need it the most use it the
least.
No wonder the system appears broken. I think it's not the system that's
flawed but the children who are in it.

Hawke


Without checking the numbers and some of the facts, I'd say that sounds
about right on the surface. Asian-Americans seem to do very well indeed with
our educational system. It must be good for some people...maybe the ones who
have family support and motivation.

--
Ed Huntress




  #176   Report Post  
Old April 22nd 08, 09:02 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 733
Default $4 dollar gas and its effects on metalworking


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  #177   Report Post  
Old April 22nd 08, 01:07 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 5,154
Default $4 dollar gas and its effects on metalworking

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 01:48:25 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Hawke" wrote in message


No wonder the system appears broken. I think it's not the system that's
flawed but the children who are in it.

Hawke


Without checking the numbers and some of the facts, I'd say that sounds
about right on the surface. Asian-Americans seem to do very well indeed with
our educational system. It must be good for some people...maybe the ones who
have family support and motivation.


Asian-Americans (I hate politically correct hyphens) do better in
school because the Asian mindset is that of their teaching system.
School is severe and ruggedly enforced, and their children do better
because of that. It could never happen here, but we need more burger-
flippers here than the Japanese do, so it's OK.

I feel blessed to have had an educated and loving family behind me to
prop me up through several nastyass teaching experiences, including
the metal brace one teacher mandated that I use in my left hand (since
I was left handed.) One full school-day of crying + coming home in
tears put an end to that. Mom ripped her a new asshole.

I also had a few -real- teachers in my life, those who taught me to
want to learn and how to do so. [Thanks Ms. Hankins (2nd grade) and
Mr. Downs (high school civics) for your love and support.]

Hawke's half right. Many children are broken. Anyone with a chip on
their shoulder will have one helluva time learning through it. But our
school system is seriously flawed. I got more out of life because I
wanted to read. (Sci-Fi books made me what I am today, and I'm leaving
my body to science fiction. But, seriously, I was wider read than
most students (not so more widely read than other honor roll students)
and it helped me.

If anything, I'd like for all of our teachers to learn how to teach or
inspire curiosity. That's the key to getting more out of life. Without
curiosity, students are fodder for the lovely "Would you like fries
with that?" or union worker lifestyles.

Luckily, there are lots of curious kids in our schools today, despite
the teacher's union, the NEA, and uncaring parents/teachers. For a lot
of other kids, it's a choice, and it's sad that so many make the wrong
one in life. C'est la guerre, non?

--
It's a sad day when you find out that it's not accident or time
or fortune, but just yourself that kept things from you.
-- Lillian Hellman
  #178   Report Post  
Old April 22nd 08, 02:26 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Oct 2007
Posts: 200
Default $4 dollar gas and its effects on metalworking

On Apr 18, 1:16 pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
On Apr 17, 7:09 am, wrote:



Interestingly enough, the younger people are increasingly blaming our
generation for the mess the world is in. They don't get bogged down in
dinosaur politics - its irrelevant to them - they just damn us all! -
as long as we can find a convenient left/right scapegoat to absolve us
from actually taking any real responsibility at a personal level, they
may well be right.


Andrew VK3bFA.


The young generally didnt give a **** about anything other than sound
bytes with zip data backing those sound bytes up.


Meism and Nowism along with Cliche politics is more their forte.


Gunner


Well, yes - agree. They have largely given up, they have seen their
elders engage in endless vituperative debate, and nothing happens
except things get worse..why should they give a rats arse about the
dinosaurs, thrashing around, making lots of noise, but basically doing
nothing except blaming "someone else"....so, can opening themselves,
listening to sound bites, me too isms - desperately hoping, without
any real conviction, that someone will offer hope and inspiration, not
just more lies and broken promises.........


$4 gas is the least of our problems.....


Andrew VK3BFA.- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


I disagree...the vast majority of young people I know are working
their butts off trying to get ahead.

Considering that they will be handed the largest debt in history
because of the stupidity of their parents, they will be paying for
that debt for their entire lives.

In reality we have failed them.

The Greatest Generation made it, our generation lost it.

TMT


I know HEAPS who are as you describe, ie all the Kiddies I go to trade
school with - and others who are hopeless and will probably never work
in their lives.

I think Gunnerland is composed of the latter...glad I dont live
there..visit sometimes, but dont live there...

Andrew VK3BFA.
  #179   Report Post  
Old April 22nd 08, 03:23 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 310
Default $4 dollar gas and its effects on metalworking

In article ,
Larry Jaques wrote:

I feel blessed to have had an educated and loving family behind me to
prop me up through several nastyass teaching experiences, including
the metal brace one teacher mandated that I use in my left hand (since
I was left handed.) One full school-day of crying + coming home in
tears put an end to that. Mom ripped her a new asshole.


Good on Mom!


I also had a few -real- teachers in my life, those who taught me to
want to learn and how to do so. [Thanks Ms. Hankins (2nd grade) and
Mr. Downs (high school civics) for your love and support.]


The very first thing a pupil should hear is: "You can learn. Learning is
one of the things people do best. Learning can be slower or faster for
some people, but everyone can learn and learning is fun. So let's get
curious!"

I had the pleasure (?) of being assigned to tutor a fellow student in
high school. Skip was considered slow. Maybe so, but he was also
thorough. In three weeks he learned enough to pass his final exam in
French with a low A. Since French was what would prevent him graduating,
we both felt really good about that. The very first thing I said to Skip
was: "You can learn this, it's just another way of talking." Turned out
the whole problem was he didn't do well in a classroom setting, but
glommed onto it one-on-one like he was born in France. Slow? I don't
think slow so much as needing a different way of learning that
particular thing.

I got a contract once from the VA to teach a guy basic blacksmithing and
metalwork. He was very interested, but also very hard on himself. He
seemed to think he should be able to perfect every manual skill in one
try. Finally had to tell him:" I said to do, not to do well the first
time. Do each skill many times. Well will come. One day you'll pick and
use the right technique without consciously thinking about it -- and
you'll laugh at yourself over how it will surprise you."
  #180   Report Post  
Old April 22nd 08, 05:09 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 2,152
Default $4 dollar gas and its effects on metalworking

On Tue, 22 Apr 2008 10:23:16 -0400, John Husvar
wrote:
snip
Turned out
the whole problem was he didn't do well in a classroom setting, but
glommed onto it one-on-one like he was born in France. Slow? I don't
think slow so much as needing a different way of learning that
particular thing.

snip
============
FWIW

Over the entire student body [there are always exceptions] it has
been know for the last 85 years or so that the *LEAST* effective
method of instruction, measured both as how much knowledge is
retained, and how long it takes to acquire the knowledge, is the
traditional "sage on the stage" classroom lecture / text book
method.

So what method do we stress??????


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).


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