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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates

On Mar 24, 1:30*am, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:20:32 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

snipBy the same people who up to their chins in credit card debt....just
waiting to default.


TMT


===========
That's the next tsunami of CDOs to hit, although I don't know if
it will be the credit card debt backed or the auto loan backed
collateralized "securities."

Run for the high ground while you can and hope the wave dosen't
reach that high....

Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).


It will both...credit cards and cars.

Many people are very worried.

TMT
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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates

On Mar 24, 2:53*am, Gunner wrote:
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:26:42 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools





wrote:

The financial sector didn't like them. Elect a George Bush and it gets what
it wants. Pretty simple, really. They send their lobbyists to see republican
congressmen, they pay them, they do what they want. Why else would they want
republicans elected?


Hawke- Hide quoted text -


- Show quoted text -


Correct...and that is why I say this Administration is responsible.


It happened on their watch.


Time for them to pay the penalty.


TMT


If the balloon had burst on the Demonrats watch..you would be shouting
from the rooftops "everything is ok"

Your partisanship is awe inspiring.

And yes..it damned well could have happened on the Demonrats watch.

Gunner- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Another conservative making excuses while the country's financial
system crashes.....

It is happening on the Republican watch...and their heads will be
rolling in November.

TMT
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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates

On Mar 24, 2:53*am, Gunner wrote:
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:24:37 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools

wrote:

There has been fraud committed.


Time to build more jails for bankers and their friends.


TMT


Even the Democrat ones?

Gunner


Go ahead and try to change the subject Gunner.

It won't make the moneythe Republicans lost come back.

TMT
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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 00:22:39 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:26:22 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


snip

In the interim, what do you think about Warren Buffett's
Chairman's Letter to Berkshire? Interesting, oui?


I hadn't read it, and I've still read only a couple of pages, but Buffett is
always refreshing to read. I hope he keeps it up for a long time.


This was the first time I'd read him and I was delighted, too. He's
clear, informative, and witty.


OK, I'm reading the letter now. Do you feel that Greenspan was wrong
all this time? Now that I see (portions of?) what happened, I'm
surprised that we never heard cautions from him. Or was that just the
pick-'n-choose media's output? Does not compute.


I'm getting the impression that a lot of economists and finance experts
thought that Greenspan let a lot of things slip by him that he shouldn't
have. But I'm in no position to evaluate it. We know in hindsight that some
of his decisions worked out very badly, but how good they were at the time
he made them, I have no idea.


I'd always thought he was a god or something in his world.


Hindsight is easy. Economic theories always look better if they're based on
things that happened in the past -- until the future catches up with them.
It's like what you've read about climate models.


Yeah, I guess there's nothing sacred in this world.


Yes, that one being so juicy, please email the other 9 post haste.
Danke.


I sent off four so far, but I think I repeated one of them to you. Sorry.
I'll get the rest out shortly.


I'll get over it. Thankee, sir.

--
Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value.
-- Albert Einstein
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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 02:15:59 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:26:22 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, "Ed
Huntress" quickly quoth:


snip


OK, I'm reading the letter now. Do you feel that Greenspan was wrong
all this time? Now that I see (portions of?) what happened, I'm
surprised that we never heard cautions from him. Or was that just the
pick-'n-choose media's output? Does not compute.


Well, five years ago he said "derivatives are financial weapons of mass
destruction, carrying dangers that, while now latent, are potentially
lethal." He's always been wary of this stuff. But he's also bought a bunch
of credit derivatives, so he's hard to read on that one.


Indubitably.


"Only when the tide goes out do you discover who's been swimming naked." --
Warren Buffett


That was the other statement in the Chairman's Letter which tickled
me. g

--
Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value.
-- Albert Einstein


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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:12:20 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus14119 quickly quoth:

On 2008-03-24, F George McDuffee wrote:
It's like grade eight bolts. You buy based on the
certification/specifications. You expect counterfit grade 2
marked as grade 8 to come from a no-name Asian supplier, not
Unbrako.


Unbrako's bolts are socket head and they are not subject to grade 8,
though I see your point.

By the way, I have a boatload of Unbrako socket head cap
screws. Approximately 800 lbs of them.


What sizes, Ig? Selling any?

I hope you don't say "I got them for a song. The only problem is that
they're 3/8-16 by 3/8."

--
Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value.
-- Albert Einstein
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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 01:53:30 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner quickly quoth:

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:24:37 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:


There has been fraud committed.

Time to build more jails for bankers and their friends.

TMT


Even the Democrat ones?


Why does everyone and their brother keep biting on too-many-trolls'
trolls? Keeriste, I wish Agent let me filter responses to trolls
without filtering the respondees, too. I really don't want to have to
plonk you and Unk.

--
Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value.
-- Albert Einstein
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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates

"Ed Huntress" wrote:

AAackk! Now I have to go back and do it all again. g

OK, George, for you, I'll do it. Anyone else is on their own. Is that your
real e-mail address? If so, I'll have the articles e-mailed early today.


Ed,

I guess it would have been good idea to send them to yourself so you could
then forward them via a distribution list or forward them to one of us and
ake us the designated forwarder (even better) I recieved 6, one a
duplicate.

If anyone got all ten, how about stepping up and taking the load off of Ed?

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 02:47:46 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 01:54:48 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

I sent the rest. Let me know if you don't get 10.

--
Ed Huntress

==========
can you put me on the distro?

Thanks


AAackk! Now I have to go back and do it all again. g

OK, George, for you, I'll do it. Anyone else is on their own. Is that your
real e-mail address? If so, I'll have the articles e-mailed early today.

=======

yes

I can post on my webdsite for download if this is ok.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates


"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 02:47:46 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 01:54:48 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:

I sent the rest. Let me know if you don't get 10.

--
Ed Huntress
==========
can you put me on the distro?

Thanks


AAackk! Now I have to go back and do it all again. g

OK, George, for you, I'll do it. Anyone else is on their own. Is that your
real e-mail address? If so, I'll have the articles e-mailed early today.

=======

yes

I can post on my webdsite for download if this is ok.


I think we'd be violating some agreements I've OK'd, George. But I'll have
them e-mailed to you, and what you do with them is your business.

(update)

OK, I've sent you all ten. Let me know what you get.

--
Ed Huntress




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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates


"Wes" wrote in message
news
"Ed Huntress" wrote:

AAackk! Now I have to go back and do it all again. g

OK, George, for you, I'll do it. Anyone else is on their own. Is that your
real e-mail address? If so, I'll have the articles e-mailed early today.


Ed,

I guess it would have been good idea to send them to yourself so you could
then forward them via a distribution list or forward them to one of us and
ake us the designated forwarder (even better) I recieved 6, one a
duplicate.


Let's see if I can get the rest of them to you. Too bad I didn't anticipate
this better, but could you e-mail me the first three words or so of each
headline you got? Remove the "3" for my real e-mail address.


If anyone got all ten, how about stepping up and taking the load off of
Ed?


What you guys do with them is your business. But having been part of the
publishing world for most of my working life, I'm respectful of copyrights.
That's how I made my living. d8-) So I don't want to bundle them.

I will, however, bundle them to get any to you, or to anyone on this short
e-mail list, to fill in any that you didn't get in the original e-mail.

--
Ed Huntress


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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates

On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:46:43 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:
snip
OK, there are 10 parts to the report,

snip
==========
Thanks ED -- lots of good information.

I did not know that Bear Stearns had written 10 trillion $US of
CDSs. Well over 1/2 the US GDP. No wonder the Fed, the other
banks, etc. were (and are) sweating bullets...

I have converted to 14 point Times Roman font and pdf file, and
snipped the header/footer email info.

The people that are interested can click and download at
http://mcduffee-associates.us/NG/NGrelated.htm

note this page is not linked to/from the main website.

Let me know if you find this helpful.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 02:26:52 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

On Mar 24, 2:53*am, Gunner wrote:
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:24:37 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools

wrote:

There has been fraud committed.


Time to build more jails for bankers and their friends.


TMT


Even the Democrat ones?

Gunner


Go ahead and try to change the subject Gunner.

It won't make the moneythe Republicans lost come back.

TMT


So which is it? Are you also calling for the incarceration of the
Democrat financiers as well?

Or are you claiming that being marxists, Democrats cannot be
financiers?

That pretty much puts the lie to the claims of the Jewish Banking
Conspiracy eh? Considering most Jews vote Democrat.
Now Im curious...since most of the upper muckamuck financial people
live in Blue states as well as having the headquarters there...they
are the minorty Republicans living there eh?

My buy its very unattractive when you start screaming and frothing at
the mouth.

Gunner

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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates


"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:46:43 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:
snip
OK, there are 10 parts to the report,

snip
==========
Thanks ED -- lots of good information.

I did not know that Bear Stearns had written 10 trillion $US of
CDSs. Well over 1/2 the US GDP. No wonder the Fed, the other
banks, etc. were (and are) sweating bullets...


Here's the thing that got me: Financial services produced 10% of US
corporate profit in 1980. In 2006, they produced 40%: damned near half the
freaking profit of all US corporations combined! Yike. The business of the
United States is playing with money!

--
Ed Huntress


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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates

Ed Huntress wrote:

Here's the thing that got me: Financial services produced 10% of US
corporate profit in 1980. In 2006, they produced 40%: damned near half the
freaking profit of all US corporations combined! Yike. The business of the
United States is playing with money!

--
Ed Huntress




w a s


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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates


"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...
Ed Huntress wrote:

Here's the thing that got me: Financial services produced 10% of US
corporate profit in 1980. In 2006, they produced 40%: damned near half
the freaking profit of all US corporations combined! Yike. The business
of the United States is playing with money!

--
Ed Huntress



w a s


Good point. g

--
Ed Huntress


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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates


"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:08:54 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:46:43 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:
snip
OK, there are 10 parts to the report,
snip
==========
Thanks ED -- lots of good information.

I did not know that Bear Stearns had written 10 trillion $US of
CDSs. Well over 1/2 the US GDP. No wonder the Fed, the other
banks, etc. were (and are) sweating bullets...


Here's the thing that got me: Financial services produced 10% of US
corporate profit in 1980. In 2006, they produced 40%: damned near half the
freaking profit of all US corporations combined! Yike. The business of the
United States is playing with money!

==========
I think we had better parse the word "profit" and see if there
was any real money involved....

Alarming how close this is coming to "majik," where unending
wealth is created from nothing simply by the initiates chanting
arcane and incomprehensible words and phrases.


It's OK with me if I can get one of those jobs myself. I can speak Arcane
with a little practice.

--
Ed Huntress


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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:08:54 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:46:43 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:
snip
OK, there are 10 parts to the report,

snip
==========
Thanks ED -- lots of good information.

I did not know that Bear Stearns had written 10 trillion $US of
CDSs. Well over 1/2 the US GDP. No wonder the Fed, the other
banks, etc. were (and are) sweating bullets...


Here's the thing that got me: Financial services produced 10% of US
corporate profit in 1980. In 2006, they produced 40%: damned near half the
freaking profit of all US corporations combined! Yike. The business of the
United States is playing with money!

==========
I think we had better parse the word "profit" and see if there
was any real money involved....

Alarming how close this is coming to "majik," where unending
wealth is created from nothing simply by the initiates chanting
arcane and incomprehensible words and phrases.


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates

On Mar 24, 2:57*pm, Gunner wrote:
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 02:26:52 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools





wrote:
On Mar 24, 2:53*am, Gunner wrote:
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:24:37 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools


wrote:


There has been fraud committed.


Time to build more jails for bankers and their friends.


TMT


Even the Democrat ones?


Gunner


Go ahead and try to change the subject Gunner.


It won't make the moneythe Republicans lost come back.


TMT


So which is it? Are you also calling for the incarceration of the
Democrat financiers as well? *

Or are you claiming that being marxists, Democrats cannot be
financiers?

That pretty much puts the lie to the claims of the Jewish Banking
Conspiracy eh? *Considering most Jews vote Democrat.
Now Im curious...since most of the upper muckamuck financial people
live in Blue states *as well as having the headquarters there...they
are the minorty Republicans living there eh?

My buy its very unattractive when you start screaming and frothing at
the mouth.

Gunner- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


LOL...another attempt to change the subject Gunner...your handlers
need to teach you some new tricks.

On the subject of being ripped off, how do you like paying those ever
higher gas prices to the Arabs complements of your idol George "Screw
the American Fool Who Voted For An Oil Man" Bush?

Remember that Republican sucking sound..it is coming more and more
from your wallet.

TMT
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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates

On Mar 24, 7:41*pm, F. George McDuffee gmcduf...@mcduffee-
associates.us wrote:
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:08:54 -0400, "Ed Huntress"





wrote:

"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:46:43 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:
snip
OK, there are 10 parts to the report,
snip
==========
Thanks ED -- lots of good information.


I did not know that Bear Stearns had written *10 trillion $US of
CDSs. *Well over 1/2 the US GDP. *No wonder the Fed, the other
banks, etc. were (and are) sweating bullets...


Here's the thing that got me: Financial services produced 10% of US
corporate profit in 1980. In 2006, they produced 40%: damned near half the
freaking profit of all US corporations combined! Yike. The business of the
United States is playing with money!


==========
I think we had better parse the word "profit" and see if there
was any real money involved....

Alarming how close this is coming to "majik," where unending
wealth is created from nothing simply by the initiates chanting
arcane and incomprehensible words and phrases.

Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


LOL...just watch the GOP convention this summer...lots of "arcane and
incomprehensible words and phrases" for everyone unemployed due to the
recession.

TMT


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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 22:42:46 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:

On Mar 24, 2:57*pm, Gunner wrote:
On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 02:26:52 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools





wrote:
On Mar 24, 2:53*am, Gunner wrote:
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:24:37 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools


wrote:


There has been fraud committed.


Time to build more jails for bankers and their friends.


TMT


Even the Democrat ones?


Gunner


Go ahead and try to change the subject Gunner.


It won't make the moneythe Republicans lost come back.


TMT


So which is it? Are you also calling for the incarceration of the
Democrat financiers as well? *

Or are you claiming that being marxists, Democrats cannot be
financiers?

That pretty much puts the lie to the claims of the Jewish Banking
Conspiracy eh? *Considering most Jews vote Democrat.
Now Im curious...since most of the upper muckamuck financial people
live in Blue states *as well as having the headquarters there...they
are the minorty Republicans living there eh?

My buy its very unattractive when you start screaming and frothing at
the mouth.

Gunner- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


LOL...another attempt to change the subject Gunner...your handlers
need to teach you some new tricks.

On the subject of being ripped off, how do you like paying those ever
higher gas prices to the Arabs complements of your idol George "Screw
the American Fool Who Voted For An Oil Man" Bush?


Another lie on your part. The cause of the oil price increases is due
to your buds the Chicomms buying up so much of it.

Remember that Republican sucking sound..it is coming more and more
from your wallet.

TMT


Better a Republican taking 20% of my wallet, than a Demon rat taking
50% of it

Watching you bitch about the Republicans spending money is as funny as
watching a child molester bitching about shoplifters

Gunner
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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 22:44:41 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:


Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


LOL...just watch the GOP convention this summer...lots of "arcane and
incomprehensible words and phrases" for everyone unemployed due to the
recession.

TMT



Come November..it may be a Democrat Recession...think hard about that
one ....and with the Democrat Congress (and you admit they are
incompetent) flailing around like a group of retards on black ice..its
gonna be funny as hell

Gunner
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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:37:28 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


Alarming how close this is coming to "majik," where unending
wealth is created from nothing simply by the initiates chanting
arcane and incomprehensible words and phrases.


It's OK with me if I can get one of those jobs myself. I can speak Arcane
with a little practice.

========
I forgot to add the part about conducting periodic human
sacrifices...


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates

F. George McDuffee wrote:

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 21:37:28 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


Alarming how close this is coming to "majik," where unending
wealth is created from nothing simply by the initiates chanting
arcane and incomprehensible words and phrases.


It's OK with me if I can get one of those jobs myself. I can speak Arcane
with a little practice.


========
I forgot to add the part about conducting periodic human
sacrifices...




I dunno, George.

The only virgin around here is Hawkie.

That is NOT going to help...



Richard

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Gunner wrote:

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 22:44:41 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:


Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


LOL...just watch the GOP convention this summer...lots of "arcane and
incomprehensible words and phrases" for everyone unemployed due to the
recession.

TMT




Come November..it may be a Democrat Recession...think hard about that
one ....and with the Democrat Congress (and you admit they are
incompetent) flailing around like a group of retards on black ice..its
gonna be funny as hell

Gunner



No, it's not.

You guys are so caught up in the lables and name calling you both seem
to forget that we are all in this together...

Like it or not.


R



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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates

On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 02:11:19 -0600, cavelamb himself
wrote:

Gunner wrote:

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 22:44:41 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:


Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

LOL...just watch the GOP convention this summer...lots of "arcane and
incomprehensible words and phrases" for everyone unemployed due to the
recession.

TMT




Come November..it may be a Democrat Recession...think hard about that
one ....and with the Democrat Congress (and you admit they are
incompetent) flailing around like a group of retards on black ice..its
gonna be funny as hell

Gunner



No, it's not.

You guys are so caught up in the lables and name calling you both seem
to forget that we are all in this together...

Like it or not.


R


Son..if you havent prepared by now..nothing is going to help you.

Gunner
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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates


"cavelamb himself" wrote in message
...
Gunner wrote:

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 22:44:41 -0700 (PDT), Too_Many_Tools
wrote:


Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

LOL...just watch the GOP convention this summer...lots of "arcane and
incomprehensible words and phrases" for everyone unemployed due to the
recession.

TMT




Come November..it may be a Democrat Recession...think hard about that
one ....and with the Democrat Congress (and you admit they are
incompetent) flailing around like a group of retards on black ice..its
gonna be funny as hell

Gunner



No, it's not.

You guys are so caught up in the lables and name calling you both seem
to forget that we are all in this together...

Like it or not.


I used to complain about the same thing, until I realized we aren't really
in this together. Gunner is preparing a large hole somewhere in the desert
and he has enough machine tools to make more ersatz Reising guns than the
Marines threw into the ocean at Guadalcanal. If the **** hits the fan, TMT
and some others have dibs on a room at Neverland Ranch.

I'd think they'd grow tired of their own company.

--
Ed Huntress


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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates


You guys are so caught up in the lables and name calling you both seem
to forget that we are all in this together...

Like it or not.


R



Son..if you havent prepared by now..nothing is going to help you.

Gunner



--

Two things Gunner, maybe three...

One, lose the "son" crap - I'm older than you are - (punk!)
I just LOOK younger - 'cause I still have all my hair.

Then there's Dorothy - takes very good care of me - keeps me happy!
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/spirit.htm#dot


Two, I'm probably better prepared than you are.

I'm comfortably retired.
The home is paid for.
I have no outstanding debts (not even credit cards - they get
paid off every month).
I don't have to pay income taxes (!!).
AND! I live in Texas, not Californiastan.
Gas is finally up to $3 a gallon - what's yours???



Now, having said all that, just hold off for one more moment...


We ARE ALL In This Together.

Some of us are just more together than others...
As I'm sure you'll agree...



Richard

(remove the X to email)

It's never too late to be the person you might have been.
George Elliot
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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates

On Tue, 25 Mar 2008 15:18:13 -0600, cavelamb himself
wrote:


Son..if you havent prepared by now..nothing is going to help you.

Gunner



--

Two things Gunner, maybe three...

One, lose the "son" crap - I'm older than you are - (punk!)
I just LOOK younger - 'cause I still have all my hair.


I have most of my hair too. Though Im starting to lose the back hair.
and the pubes are getting a little gray...

Then there's Dorothy - takes very good care of me - keeps me happy!
http://www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb/spirit.htm#dot

Fair enough. Nice looking lady


Two, I'm probably better prepared than you are.

I'm comfortably retired.


Still working
The home is paid for.


Ditto
I have no outstanding debts (not even credit cards - they get
paid off every month).


I dont own any credit cards

I don't have to pay income taxes (!!).


grumble grumble....

AND! I live in Texas, not Californiastan.
Gas is finally up to $3 a gallon - what's yours???


$3.42 today




Now, having said all that, just hold off for one more moment...


We ARE ALL In This Together.

Some of us are just more together than others...
As I'm sure you'll agree...


True enough.

Gunner

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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates

Ed Huntress wrote:

If you get your financial advice from a mortgage broker, I will tell
you that you are nuts.


Well, why don't you tell us who got it right, Dan? What crank do you listen
to who would have told you that there was going to be a subprime mortgage
crises, provoked by a mortgage industry that was giving out ridiculous
loans, with prices dropping and buyers pulling out because of credit was
tied up by a collapse of derivatives that were collateralized by bundles of
those subprime mortgages, rated AAA by S&P and Moody's, which every major
investment bank (except Goldman Sachs) was buying like candy and which was
supported by the most sophisticated and most successful financial network in
the history of mankind?

Are you going to tell us that YOU knew it, fer chrissake?


Well, I didn't know, but I sure had a bad feeling
in my gut, driving past thousands of new $500k
homes and wondering who the fsk was going to pay
for them.

Silicon Valley and the SF Bay area went through a
similar ordeal after the dot com bust. Mortgages
in San Jose were "under water" as opposed to "upside-
down". Same difference. Warehouse space was dirt
cheap after millions of square feet of tilt-ups were
raised anticipating the continued boom.


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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates

On Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:08:54 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"F. George McDuffee" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:46:43 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:
snip
OK, there are 10 parts to the report,

snip
==========
Thanks ED -- lots of good information.

I did not know that Bear Stearns had written 10 trillion $US of
CDSs. Well over 1/2 the US GDP. No wonder the Fed, the other
banks, etc. were (and are) sweating bullets...


Here's the thing that got me: Financial services produced 10% of US
corporate profit in 1980. In 2006, they produced 40%: damned near half the
freaking profit of all US corporations combined! Yike. The business of the
United States is playing with money!

========== update ========
I just came across this news item.

== It now appears that these "profits" were [largely] cobwebs
and moonbeams.==

Note that a major accounting firm/auditor [KPMG] is again
implicated, although there appears to have been a considerable
amount of "blind eye" due diligence done by the lenders.

There ain't no body here but us chickens,
There ain't nobody here at all...

----------------
March 26, 2008
Report Assails Auditor for Work at Failed Home Lender
By VIKAS BAJAJ

In a sweeping accusation against one of the country’s largest
accounting firms, an investigator released a report on Wednesday
that said “improper and imprudent practices” by a once
high-flying mortgage company were condoned and enabled by its
auditors.

KPMG, one of the Big Four accounting firms, endorsed a move by
New Century Financial, a failed mortgage company, to change its
accounting practices in a way that allowed the lender to report a
profit, rather than a loss, at the height of the housing boom, an
independent report commissioned by a division of the Justice
Department concluded.

snip

The 580-page report documents how New Century lowered its
reserves for loans that investors were forcing it to buy back
even as such repurchases were surging. Had it not changed its
accounting, the company would have reported a loss rather a
profit in the second half of 2006. The company first acknowledged
that its accounting was wrong in February 2007 and sought
bankruptcy protection less than two months later as its lenders
stopped doing business with it.

The profit was important because it allowed executives to earn
bonuses and convince Wall Street that it was in fine shape
financially when in fact its business was coming apart, the
report contended. But the report stopped short of saying that the
company “engaged in earnings management or manipulation, although
its accounting irregularities almost always resulted in increased
earnings.”

snip

----------------
for complete article click on
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/26/bu...gewanted=print


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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Default OT - The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates

On Mar 21, 10:25*pm, Too_Many_Tools wrote:
There is a lesson to be learned here....

TMT

March 20, 2008
The Affluent, Too, Couldn't Resist Adjustable Rates
By JANE BIRNBAUM
They took out adjustable-rate mortgages at the peak of the housing
bubble to buy homes they would otherwise not be able to afford. Or
they refinanced existing mortgages to take cash out. And now, two or
three years later, the day of reckoning is here.

These are not lower- and middle-income borrowers, but more affluent
consumers with annual incomes of $100,000 or more who are increasingly
being ensnared in the home mortgage crisis.

People in all income categories "are facing the shock of new payments
that can be twice as much as previous ones," said Susan M. Wachter,
professor of business and a real estate specialist at the Wharton
School of the University of Pennsylvania.

Nor will falling interest rates help most of these homeowners, as
their low initial payments skyrocket and the worth of their homes
erodes, said Allen Fishbein, director of housing and credit policy at
the Consumer Federation of America.

According to Loan Performance, a unit of First American CoreLogic, a
real estate information company based in Santa Ana, Calif., about
870,000 borrowers took jumbo ARMs -- mortgages of $417,000 or more --
from 2005 to 2007.

In the fourth quarter of 2007, 8.10 percent were two or more payments
late, it found, while 2.62 percent were in the foreclosure process and
1.35 percent had been foreclosed. All the numbers were up from the
third quarter.

Mark Zandi, chief economist for Moody's Economy.com, predicted that
eventually 8 percent of these jumbo ARMs will be foreclosed. In the
first quarter of 2008, "the delinquency and foreclosure rate will
clearly be higher," he said.

Today's ARMs were "designed to fail, so you have to refinance," Ms.
Wachter said. "It shouldn't be surprising that values go up and down
in this kind of situation. And when you most need to refinance you
can't -- the crux of the crunch."

Jeffrey Conner, a San Francisco real estate lawyer, says he regularly
hears from his clients "that lenders assured them they could always
refinance."

So what are these homeowners to do now?

Refinancing requires some equity. Even if homeowners put a substantial
amount of money down, many have no equity because their homes are
worth less than they owe. In real estate parlance, their mortgages are
under water.

Richard Geller, founder of Mortgage Relief Formula, a for-profit
venture based in Fairfax, Va., that counsels troubled ARM borrowers,
said he received calls from affluent consumers in almost every major
metropolitan area. At the moment, Manhattan appears to be the only
exception in the weakening market, Mr. Geller said. "It's really late
in the schedule and will be the last place prices soften," he added.

The first step for distressed homeowners, said Rhonda Porter, a
certified mortgage planning specialist and broker in Seattle, is to
pull out their loan documents and see what they say.

Sean O'Toole, founder of ForeclosureRadar.com, which tracks California
foreclosures, divided borrowers into two camps. "If you have equity,
you have choices," he said. "If you don't, you have to work on a loan
modification with your lender."

Consumers with substantial equity, high credit scores and documented
income should be able to find conventional refinancing, he said.

Homeowners with at least 3 percent equity may qualify for refinancing
through the Federal Housing Administration. On March 6, it began
making loans up to $729,750, a new higher limit that expires Dec. 31
unless Congress extends it. Limits are 125 percent of median home
prices, by county. Consumers can find their local limits athttps://entp.hud.gov/idapp/html/hicost1.cfm.

To find a qualified lender or broker, consumers may call (800) CALL-
FHA, look in the Yellow Pages or visitwww.fha.govfor the four
regional centers.

Loan modifications entail freezing or reducing interest rates and may
also include balance reductions.

"But if your payments are still going to be more than half your gross
income, the lenders won't do it because they figure you're going to
default later," Mr. Geller said. "It's not rational to dedicate your
life to making the next $5,000 monthly payment on an asset declining
in value."

Negotiating a loan modification means understanding that in most cases
"the lenders really don't want to force people into foreclosure
because that virtually guarantees large losses in the market," said
Dean Baker, an economist with the Center for Economic and Policy
Research in Washington.

"It's a game of chicken," Mr. Baker said. "And you can't play it
effectively unless you know what your risks are, including whether
lenders can come after your other assets if you walk away."

Borrowers should determine if they live in a state with nonrecourse
laws. In general, lenders in those states cannot pursue borrowers for
money owed. But these laws are complex and change often, so consulting
with a lawyer may be necessary, Mr. Geller said. He has compiled a
list of nonrecourse states athttp://www.mortgagereliefformula.com/recourse..

Every affluent borrower who took an ARM has a different story.

In Oceanside, Calif., north of San Diego, people paid $650,000 to
$750,000 in 2003 and 2004 for row houses on Cleveland Street, said
Chris McBrearty, certified mortgage planning specialist, in Carlsbad,
Calif., who wrote many mortgages there. When prices for the houses
rose as high as $1.5 million in 2005, many of those people refinanced
with ARMs to take out cash, he said.

But while the borrowers had the best intentions, life -- job losses,
divorces, deaths -- changed their financial circumstances, Mr.
McBrearty said. Now, with a most recent listing at $920,000, "nothing
is selling on the street, and even for those with some equity, the
products needed to refinance such large loans are not out there."

One of those homeowners, a lawyer who spoke only on condition of
anonymity for professional reasons, said he refinanced his mortgage
with an ARM in January 2006 to take $510,000 out to invest in a hotel.
"I planned to run the hotel with my lovely wife," he said.

Their strategy was to sell the house after a couple of years, but when
they put it on the market in April 2007, there were no buyers. The
lawyer, now divorced, calculated that the mortgage payments, now
$6,200 a month, plus taxes consume 96 percent of his net income, which
includes occasional rent from vacationers who use the house. He lives
with relatives and sleeps on the floor.

"I don't regret what I did," he said. But a foreclosure would hurt his
career and finances, he said. "And I was raised to pay back what I
borrow."

His strategy now is to sell when prices revive. But that could take
time, because a bank just sold a neighbor's foreclosed home for
$850,000.

Elizabeth Hamilton, the maiden name of a Los Angeles real estate
consultant who did not want to be identified for professional reasons,
said she turned to a nonprofit housing counseling agency when she was
making no progress in persuading her lender to reduce the interest
rate for the ARM she took on her $1.5 million home. The introductory
rate was 7.9 percent for two years and payments were $6,541.

Now the interest rate is 10.25 percent and payments are $8,013. She
cannot afford the payments, she said, because her husband has died and
her income has fallen. "I need an interest rate reduction so I can get
myself and children back on track," she said.

A housing counselor, certified by the federal Department of Housing
and Urban Development, quickly got through to her servicer's loss
mitigation department, where loan modifications are made. Now Ms.
Hamilton needs to provide more personal financial information.

The best no- or low-cost housing advisers have contacts with lenders'
decision makers. "Our view is you need counselors who will negotiate
for you," said Bruce Dorpalen, director of counseling for Acorn
Housing, a nonprofit counseling group.

Mr. Geller said he had heard of just one loan balance reduction won by
a borrower.

That borrower, a real estate consultant in California who did not want
to be identified because he feared angering his lender, said he used
his understanding of state law to negotiate the refinancing. He bought
a condominium two years ago for $450,000 and invested another $50,000
for improvements. His ARM had a 5.5 percent initial rate that was soon
resetting to 7.25 percent. But his condo is now worth only about
$350,000.

His lender agreed to give him a 6 percent fixed-rate mortgage and, he
said, to knock $135,000 off the principal.

The agreement came only after he stopped paying his mortgage for two
months. "I am very happy and grateful to the lender because what I owe
on my condo now is in line with its worth," he said. "I'm ecstatic."


As the carnage continues....

Strange how this never shows up in the conservative talk shows.....

TMT

Foreclosures come to McMansion country By Andy Sullivan

Million-dollar fixer-upper for sale: five bedrooms, four baths, three-
car garage, cavernous living room. Big holes above fireplace where
flat-screen TV used to hang.

The U.S. housing crisis has come to McMansion country.

Just as the foreclosure crisis has hollowed out poorer neighborhoods,
"for sale" signs are sprouting in upscale developments so new they
don't show up on GPS navigation screens.

Poor people weren't the only ones who took out risky, high-interest
loans during the housing boom. The sharp increase in housing costs --
and the desire to live in brand-new, spacious houses with modern
features -- led many affluent buyers to take out loans they couldn't
afford.

"People had in their head, 'I need a mud room, I need giant columns, I
need a media room, and I'm going to do anything to get it,"' said
Robert Lang, co-director of Virginia Tech's Metropolitan Institute, a
research organization that focuses on real estate and development.

The crisis has hit especially hard here in Loudoun County, Virginia,
where upscale developments have supplanted horse farms over the past
fifteen years.

About an hour's drive from Washington, Loudoun is one of the nation's
most affluent counties, with a median household income of $98,000,
more than double the national figure.

The county has also ranked as one of the nation's fastest growing in
recent years as developers built thousands of super-sized, amenity-
laden houses to keep pace with the booming high-tech economy.

These houses are sometimes nicknamed "McMansions," disparaging both
their extravagance and their look of mass production -- like
hamburgers from a McDonald's restaurant.

Between 1990 and 2005, the county's population tripled to 272,000.
Many of those moving here relied on risky, high-interest loans to buy
the house of their dreams.

"People pushed the limits to be able to buy. They couldn't afford to
buy there otherwise," said Virginia Tech consumer-affairs professor
Irene Leach.

High-interest loans accounted for 16 percent of the total during the
height of the mortgage boom in 2005, less than other outer-ring
suburban counties in the region but more than neighboring counties
closer to Washington.

Now the bill has come due. One out of every 69 households in the
county was in foreclosure in the last three months of 2008, well above
the national average of one filing for every 555 households, according
to RealtyTrac.

Most of these have been concentrated in the county's poorer
neighborhoods, but local realtor Danilo Bogdanovic says he is
increasingly seeing more foreclosures on properties worth more than
$800,000 as affluent borrowers burn through savings in a vain attempt
to stay in houses they can't afford.

"They've just prolonged the pain," Bogdanovic said. "I don't think
they're immune to it."

At the end of 2007, 20 of the 25 houses for sale for more than
$850,000 in Loudoun County appeared to be foreclosures, according to
Tony Arko, his partner.

These can take years to sell, as they must compete with brand-new
developments still coming online.

Housing prices in the county plummeted 8 percent in 2007, the sharpest
drop in the region, according to the Washington Post. New home starts
plummeted by 50 percent.

Bogdanovic and Arko have sold many foreclosed properties to investors
looking to rent them out. But there's no market for a million-dollar
rental property, they say.

In the Beacon Hill development, a golf course snakes among large
houses and gazebos set on rolling hills. Residents keep their horses
at an equestrian center.

A 7,300-square-foot mansion on Spectacular Bid Place features three
chandeliers, a spiral staircase and a state-of-the-art kitchen. The
owner offered it at $1.35 million in January 2006, before foreclosing
in August 2007. The house found a buyer in January 2008 -- for
$963,000.

Several miles away, the million-dollar fixer-upper with the holes in
the walls has been on the market since December. It is still unsold.

(Reporting by Andy Sullivan; Editing by Eddie Evans)

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