Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse

The townhouse that was destroyed by the crane, contained a bar whose
name was "Fubar".

Very good picture here

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/nyregion/18crane.html

You can see presumably CM lever hoists creatively used, there. (the
article calls them "manual winches").

City inspector charged for false reports

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ase/index.html


i
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Default Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse


Ignoramus547 wrote:

The townhouse that was destroyed by the crane, contained a bar whose
name was "Fubar".

Very good picture here

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/nyregion/18crane.html

You can see presumably CM lever hoists creatively used, there. (the
article calls them "manual winches").


I don't see anything "creative" about it. Using a set of manual lever
hoists attached to a load or hang point with nylon slings to lift and
position a load is pretty normal. The question is what were the ratings
of those slings and lever hoists and the weight of the load?


City inspector charged for false reports

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ase/index.html


Not good, but from that report it sounds like he was practically a
volunteer given the cost of living in the area.
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Default Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 23:41:20 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Pete
C." quickly quoth:


Ignoramus547 wrote:

The townhouse that was destroyed by the crane, contained a bar whose
name was "Fubar".

Very good picture here

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/nyregion/18crane.html

You can see presumably CM lever hoists creatively used, there. (the
article calls them "manual winches").


I don't see anything "creative" about it. Using a set of manual lever
hoists attached to a load or hang point with nylon slings to lift and
position a load is pretty normal. The question is what were the ratings
of those slings and lever hoists and the weight of the load?


City inspector charged for false reports

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ase/index.html


Not good, but from that report it sounds like he was practically a
volunteer given the cost of living in the area.


A grand a week is "volunteer" work? I wish I were rich like you,
Pete.

--
Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives.
-- A. Sachs
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Default Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse


Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 23:41:20 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Pete
C." quickly quoth:


Ignoramus547 wrote:

The townhouse that was destroyed by the crane, contained a bar whose
name was "Fubar".

Very good picture here

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/nyregion/18crane.html

You can see presumably CM lever hoists creatively used, there. (the
article calls them "manual winches").


I don't see anything "creative" about it. Using a set of manual lever
hoists attached to a load or hang point with nylon slings to lift and
position a load is pretty normal. The question is what were the ratings
of those slings and lever hoists and the weight of the load?


City inspector charged for false reports

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ase/index.html


Not good, but from that report it sounds like he was practically a
volunteer given the cost of living in the area.


A grand a week is "volunteer" work? I wish I were rich like you,
Pete.


That's more like $900/wk gross. I make double that, live in a much lower
cost of living area, drive a 10yr old truck and I'm not rich.
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Default Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:35:10 -0500, Ignoramus547
wrote:

The townhouse that was destroyed by the crane, contained a bar whose
name was "Fubar".
Very good picture here
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/nyregion/18crane.html
e presumably CM lever hoists creatively used, there. (the
article calls them "manual winches").
City inspector charged for false reports
http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ase/index.html
i

===========
What did they know and when did they know it?

............
Inspector arrested in NYC crane collapse



By KAREN MATTHEWS, Associated Press Writer 33 minutes ago
[20 Mar 08]

NEW YORK - A city inspector has been charged with lying about
checking on a construction crane that later collapsed, killing
seven people in a dense Manhattan neighborhood, officials said
Thursday.
snip
"We will not tolerate this kind of behavior at the Department of
Buildings," she said.
{ I am shocked, shocked...}
A complaint about the crane was logged March 4 to a city hot
line, officials said, and Marquette said he inspected it. It was
later determined he had not.
snip
The gigantic piece of machinery toppled over when a six-ton steel
collar used to secure the crane to the building came loose,
plunging into another collar that acted as a major anchor.
Without that support, it came tumbling down with terrifying
force.

The collapse followed weeks of complaints by people in the
neighborhood that the crane didn't appear safe.

Bruce Silberblatt, the retired contractor who called in the
complaint, said he was stunned by the arrest.
snip
............
for complete article click on
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080321/...JomNCGjkJvzwcF



Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).


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Default Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse


"F. George McDuffee" wrote:

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:20:05 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

Inspector arrested in NYC crane collapse

===========
A quick survey

Given that the deaths of several people resulted along with
millions of dollars in property damage, and required extensive
emergency services such as police, fire and EM, what felonies do
you think the inspector, the inspector's supervisors and, if it
can be proven, the project manager/owner should be charged with
in addition to accepting/paying a bribe?

=================


snippage

=====================
Your suggestion --


A wee bit premature given that we don't have a good handle on exactly
what happened, mostly speculation. Certainly if improper rigging and
operation of the crane was the cause, the liability would rest with the
company operating the crane, which seems to neither be the crane's
owner, nor the construction company or developer.
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Default Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:20:05 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

Inspector arrested in NYC crane collapse

===========
A quick survey

Given that the deaths of several people resulted along with
millions of dollars in property damage, and required extensive
emergency services such as police, fire and EM, what felonies do
you think the inspector, the inspector's supervisors and, if it
can be proven, the project manager/owner should be charged with
in addition to accepting/paying a bribe?

=================
[ ] Inspector
[ ] Inspector's Supervisors
[ ] project manager/owner
Involuntary manslaughter --
Involuntary manslaughter usually refers to an unintentional
killing that results from recklessness or criminal negligence, or
from an unlawful act that is a misdemeanor or low-level felony
(such as DUI). The usual distinction from voluntary manslaughter
is that involuntary manslaughter (sometimes called "criminally
negligent homicide") is a crime in which the victim's death is
unintended.
=================
[ ] Inspector
[ ] Inspector's Supervisors
[ ] project manager/owner
Voluntary manslaughter --
Voluntary manslaughter is commonly defined as an intentional
killing in which the offender had no prior intent to kill, such
as a killing that occurs in the "heat of passion." The
circumstances leading to the killing must be the kind that would
cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally
disturbed; otherwise, the killing may be charged as a
first-degree or second-degree murder.
=================
[ ] Inspector
[ ] Inspector's Supervisors
[ ] project manager/owner
Felony murder --
Most states also adhere to a legal concept known as the "felony
murder rule," under which a person commits first-degree murder if
any death (even an accidental one) results from the commission of
certain felonies -- usually arson, burglary, kidnapping, rape,
and robbery. The underlying felony in this case is the
offering/accepting the bribe for non-insopection/non-enforcement.
=================
[ ] Inspector
[ ] Inspector's Supervisors
[ ] project manager/owner
Littering --
State littering violations range from $50 to $3,000. In 1995, New
York passed a criminal illegal dumping law with a four year
maximum prison sentence. The new law increased New York's illegal
dumping penalty from a maximum fine of $2,500 to between $10,000
to $25,000. The courts are apt to levy full penalties on those
actions which have detrimental effects on public welfare or
public health.
================
[ ] inspector
[ ] Inspector's Supervisors
[ ] project manager/owner
1st degree Reckless Endangerment --
§ 120.25 Reckless endangerment in the first degree. A person is
guilty of reckless endangerment in the first degree when, under
circumstances evincing a depraved indifference to human life,
he recklessly engages in conduct which creates a grave risk
of death to another person. Reckless endangerment in the first
degree is a class D felony.
================
[ ] inspector
[ ] Inspector's Supervisors
[ ] project manager/owner
Conspiracy - A person is guilty of conspiracy with another person
or persons to commit a crime if with the intent of promoting or
facilitating its commission he:
1. agrees with such other person or persons that they or one
or more of them will engage in conduct which constitutes such
crime or an attempt or solicitation to commit such crime; or
2. agrees to aid such other person or persons in the planning
or commission of such crime or of an attempt or solicitation to
commit such crime.
=====================
Your suggestion --


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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Default Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse

Larry Jaques wrote:

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 23:41:20 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Pete
C." quickly quoth:


Ignoramus547 wrote:

The townhouse that was destroyed by the crane, contained a bar whose
name was "Fubar".

Very good picture here

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/nyregion/18crane.html

You can see presumably CM lever hoists creatively used, there. (the
article calls them "manual winches").


I don't see anything "creative" about it. Using a set of manual lever
hoists attached to a load or hang point with nylon slings to lift and
position a load is pretty normal. The question is what were the ratings
of those slings and lever hoists and the weight of the load?


City inspector charged for false reports

http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ase/index.html


Not good, but from that report it sounds like he was practically a
volunteer given the cost of living in the area.



A grand a week is "volunteer" work? I wish I were rich like you,
Pete.

--
Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives.
-- A. Sachs


One question to consider is what was the CONDITION of the straps. Nylon
becomes very brittle when exposed to sunlight for long periods and it
also cuts very easily when under tension. Could be there was a sharp or
rough edge somewhere that the strap passed over and when tension was
applied it just cut. Saw some graphic demonstrations of that when I was
a loadmaster doing air drop. An 8 ply extration sling under tension
from the extration chute can be cut in one or two swipes with a not
necessarily sharp survival knife. Tends to open ones eyes, it does.

Jim
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Default Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse

Larry Jaques wrote:

A grand a week is "volunteer" work? I wish I were rich like you,
Pete.


80K is poor in NYC
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
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Default Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse

On 2008-03-21, Randy wrote:
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:22:46 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:20:05 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

Inspector arrested in NYC crane collapse

===========
A quick survey

Given that the deaths of several people resulted along with
millions of dollars in property damage, and required extensive
emergency services such as police, fire and EM, what felonies do
you think the inspector, the inspector's supervisors and, if it
can be proven, the project manager/owner should be charged with
in addition to accepting/paying a bribe?



That does not matter, this is the United States, Lawyers are now
looking into the net worth and insurance policies of every person,
corporation and government entity involved. They will place blame
with the person or persons with the biggest bank roll. But just in
case they will also name everyone in the lawsuits that they can tie
into anyone involved in any way possible.

If you sold an oil filter that was used on the truck which delivered
that nylon strap to the job site expect to be sued.


As far as I am concerned,


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Default Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 00:52:35 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, Wes
quickly quoth:

Larry Jaques wrote:

A grand a week is "volunteer" work? I wish I were rich like you,
Pete.


80K is poor in NYC


No WONDER I hate big cities. I's just a po white chile.

--
Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value.
-- Albert Einstein
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Default Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:22:46 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:20:05 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:

Inspector arrested in NYC crane collapse

===========
A quick survey

Given that the deaths of several people resulted along with
millions of dollars in property damage, and required extensive
emergency services such as police, fire and EM, what felonies do
you think the inspector, the inspector's supervisors and, if it
can be proven, the project manager/owner should be charged with
in addition to accepting/paying a bribe?



That does not matter, this is the United States, Lawyers are now
looking into the net worth and insurance policies of every person,
corporation and government entity involved. They will place blame
with the person or persons with the biggest bank roll. But just in
case they will also name everyone in the lawsuits that they can tie
into anyone involved in any way possible.

If you sold an oil filter that was used on the truck which delivered
that nylon strap to the job site expect to be sued.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.
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Default Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 03:55:44 GMT, Jim Chandler wrote:

One question to consider is what was the CONDITION of the straps. Nylon
becomes very brittle when exposed to sunlight for long periods and it
also cuts very easily when under tension. Could be there was a sharp or
rough edge somewhere that the strap passed over and when tension was
applied it just cut. Saw some graphic demonstrations of that when I was
a loadmaster doing air drop. An 8 ply extration sling under tension
from the extration chute can be cut in one or two swipes with a not
necessarily sharp survival knife. Tends to open ones eyes, it does.


I have a "snatchem strap" for my 4WD and have recently bought a
replacement because the original had a few strands frayed - it is
probably still good for at least 90% of original capacity but has been
relegated to a towrope only where there will be no extreme stress as
when snatching. Only been used about 3 times. Better to replace
than have vehicle damage caused by one snapping.
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Default Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse

On Mar 21, 7:09*am, Randy wrote:
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:22:46 -0600, F. George McDuffee

wrote:
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:20:05 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote:


Inspector arrested in NYC crane collapse

===========
A quick survey


Given that the deaths of several people resulted along with
millions of dollars in property damage, and required extensive
emergency services such as police, fire and EM, what felonies do
you think the inspector, the inspector's supervisors and, if it
can be proven, the project manager/owner should be charged with
in addition to accepting/paying a bribe?


That does not matter, this is the United States, Lawyers are now
looking into the net worth and insurance policies of every person,
corporation and government entity involved. *They will place blame
with the person or persons with the biggest bank roll. *But just in
case they will also name everyone in the lawsuits that they can tie
into anyone involved in any way possible.

If you sold an oil filter that was used on the truck which delivered
that nylon strap to the job site expect to be sued.

Thank You,
Randy

Remove 333 from email address to reply.


And if your loved one had been killed...you would just walk away?

I think not.

TMT
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Default Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse

Randy wrote:

That does not matter, this is the United States, Lawyers are now
looking into the net worth and insurance policies of every person,
corporation and government entity involved. They will place blame
with the person or persons with the biggest bank roll. But just in
case they will also name everyone in the lawsuits that they can tie
into anyone involved in any way possible.

If you sold an oil filter that was used on the truck which delivered
that nylon strap to the job site expect to be sued.


Welcome to the big pockets theory. Something only a lawyer could come up
with.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
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