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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse
The townhouse that was destroyed by the crane, contained a bar whose
name was "Fubar". Very good picture here http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/nyregion/18crane.html You can see presumably CM lever hoists creatively used, there. (the article calls them "manual winches"). City inspector charged for false reports http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ase/index.html i |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse
Ignoramus547 wrote: The townhouse that was destroyed by the crane, contained a bar whose name was "Fubar". Very good picture here http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/nyregion/18crane.html You can see presumably CM lever hoists creatively used, there. (the article calls them "manual winches"). I don't see anything "creative" about it. Using a set of manual lever hoists attached to a load or hang point with nylon slings to lift and position a load is pretty normal. The question is what were the ratings of those slings and lever hoists and the weight of the load? City inspector charged for false reports http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ase/index.html Not good, but from that report it sounds like he was practically a volunteer given the cost of living in the area. |
#3
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Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 23:41:20 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Pete
C." quickly quoth: Ignoramus547 wrote: The townhouse that was destroyed by the crane, contained a bar whose name was "Fubar". Very good picture here http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/nyregion/18crane.html You can see presumably CM lever hoists creatively used, there. (the article calls them "manual winches"). I don't see anything "creative" about it. Using a set of manual lever hoists attached to a load or hang point with nylon slings to lift and position a load is pretty normal. The question is what were the ratings of those slings and lever hoists and the weight of the load? City inspector charged for false reports http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ase/index.html Not good, but from that report it sounds like he was practically a volunteer given the cost of living in the area. A grand a week is "volunteer" work? I wish I were rich like you, Pete. -- Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives. -- A. Sachs |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse
Larry Jaques wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 23:41:20 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Pete C." quickly quoth: Ignoramus547 wrote: The townhouse that was destroyed by the crane, contained a bar whose name was "Fubar". Very good picture here http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/nyregion/18crane.html You can see presumably CM lever hoists creatively used, there. (the article calls them "manual winches"). I don't see anything "creative" about it. Using a set of manual lever hoists attached to a load or hang point with nylon slings to lift and position a load is pretty normal. The question is what were the ratings of those slings and lever hoists and the weight of the load? City inspector charged for false reports http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ase/index.html Not good, but from that report it sounds like he was practically a volunteer given the cost of living in the area. A grand a week is "volunteer" work? I wish I were rich like you, Pete. That's more like $900/wk gross. I make double that, live in a much lower cost of living area, drive a 10yr old truck and I'm not rich. |
#5
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Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 15:35:10 -0500, Ignoramus547
wrote: The townhouse that was destroyed by the crane, contained a bar whose name was "Fubar". Very good picture here http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/nyregion/18crane.html e presumably CM lever hoists creatively used, there. (the article calls them "manual winches"). City inspector charged for false reports http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ase/index.html i =========== What did they know and when did they know it? ............ Inspector arrested in NYC crane collapse By KAREN MATTHEWS, Associated Press Writer 33 minutes ago [20 Mar 08] NEW YORK - A city inspector has been charged with lying about checking on a construction crane that later collapsed, killing seven people in a dense Manhattan neighborhood, officials said Thursday. snip "We will not tolerate this kind of behavior at the Department of Buildings," she said. { I am shocked, shocked...} A complaint about the crane was logged March 4 to a city hot line, officials said, and Marquette said he inspected it. It was later determined he had not. snip The gigantic piece of machinery toppled over when a six-ton steel collar used to secure the crane to the building came loose, plunging into another collar that acted as a major anchor. Without that support, it came tumbling down with terrifying force. The collapse followed weeks of complaints by people in the neighborhood that the crane didn't appear safe. Bruce Silberblatt, the retired contractor who called in the complaint, said he was stunned by the arrest. snip ............ for complete article click on http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080321/...JomNCGjkJvzwcF Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end? Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625). |
#6
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Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse
"F. George McDuffee" wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:20:05 -0600, F. George McDuffee wrote: Inspector arrested in NYC crane collapse =========== A quick survey Given that the deaths of several people resulted along with millions of dollars in property damage, and required extensive emergency services such as police, fire and EM, what felonies do you think the inspector, the inspector's supervisors and, if it can be proven, the project manager/owner should be charged with in addition to accepting/paying a bribe? ================= snippage ===================== Your suggestion -- A wee bit premature given that we don't have a good handle on exactly what happened, mostly speculation. Certainly if improper rigging and operation of the crane was the cause, the liability would rest with the company operating the crane, which seems to neither be the crane's owner, nor the construction company or developer. |
#7
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Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:20:05 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote: Inspector arrested in NYC crane collapse =========== A quick survey Given that the deaths of several people resulted along with millions of dollars in property damage, and required extensive emergency services such as police, fire and EM, what felonies do you think the inspector, the inspector's supervisors and, if it can be proven, the project manager/owner should be charged with in addition to accepting/paying a bribe? ================= [ ] Inspector [ ] Inspector's Supervisors [ ] project manager/owner Involuntary manslaughter -- Involuntary manslaughter usually refers to an unintentional killing that results from recklessness or criminal negligence, or from an unlawful act that is a misdemeanor or low-level felony (such as DUI). The usual distinction from voluntary manslaughter is that involuntary manslaughter (sometimes called "criminally negligent homicide") is a crime in which the victim's death is unintended. ================= [ ] Inspector [ ] Inspector's Supervisors [ ] project manager/owner Voluntary manslaughter -- Voluntary manslaughter is commonly defined as an intentional killing in which the offender had no prior intent to kill, such as a killing that occurs in the "heat of passion." The circumstances leading to the killing must be the kind that would cause a reasonable person to become emotionally or mentally disturbed; otherwise, the killing may be charged as a first-degree or second-degree murder. ================= [ ] Inspector [ ] Inspector's Supervisors [ ] project manager/owner Felony murder -- Most states also adhere to a legal concept known as the "felony murder rule," under which a person commits first-degree murder if any death (even an accidental one) results from the commission of certain felonies -- usually arson, burglary, kidnapping, rape, and robbery. The underlying felony in this case is the offering/accepting the bribe for non-insopection/non-enforcement. ================= [ ] Inspector [ ] Inspector's Supervisors [ ] project manager/owner Littering -- State littering violations range from $50 to $3,000. In 1995, New York passed a criminal illegal dumping law with a four year maximum prison sentence. The new law increased New York's illegal dumping penalty from a maximum fine of $2,500 to between $10,000 to $25,000. The courts are apt to levy full penalties on those actions which have detrimental effects on public welfare or public health. ================ [ ] inspector [ ] Inspector's Supervisors [ ] project manager/owner 1st degree Reckless Endangerment -- § 120.25 Reckless endangerment in the first degree. A person is guilty of reckless endangerment in the first degree when, under circumstances evincing a depraved indifference to human life, he recklessly engages in conduct which creates a grave risk of death to another person. Reckless endangerment in the first degree is a class D felony. ================ [ ] inspector [ ] Inspector's Supervisors [ ] project manager/owner Conspiracy - A person is guilty of conspiracy with another person or persons to commit a crime if with the intent of promoting or facilitating its commission he: 1. agrees with such other person or persons that they or one or more of them will engage in conduct which constitutes such crime or an attempt or solicitation to commit such crime; or 2. agrees to aid such other person or persons in the planning or commission of such crime or of an attempt or solicitation to commit such crime. ===================== Your suggestion -- Unka' George [George McDuffee] ------------------------------------------- He that will not apply new remedies, must expect new evils: for Time is the greatest innovator: and if Time, of course, alter things to the worse, and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better, what shall be the end? Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman. Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625). |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse
Larry Jaques wrote:
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 23:41:20 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Pete C." quickly quoth: Ignoramus547 wrote: The townhouse that was destroyed by the crane, contained a bar whose name was "Fubar". Very good picture here http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/nyregion/18crane.html You can see presumably CM lever hoists creatively used, there. (the article calls them "manual winches"). I don't see anything "creative" about it. Using a set of manual lever hoists attached to a load or hang point with nylon slings to lift and position a load is pretty normal. The question is what were the ratings of those slings and lever hoists and the weight of the load? City inspector charged for false reports http://cityroom.blogs.nytimes.com/20...ase/index.html Not good, but from that report it sounds like he was practically a volunteer given the cost of living in the area. A grand a week is "volunteer" work? I wish I were rich like you, Pete. -- Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives. -- A. Sachs One question to consider is what was the CONDITION of the straps. Nylon becomes very brittle when exposed to sunlight for long periods and it also cuts very easily when under tension. Could be there was a sharp or rough edge somewhere that the strap passed over and when tension was applied it just cut. Saw some graphic demonstrations of that when I was a loadmaster doing air drop. An 8 ply extration sling under tension from the extration chute can be cut in one or two swipes with a not necessarily sharp survival knife. Tends to open ones eyes, it does. Jim |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse
Larry Jaques wrote:
A grand a week is "volunteer" work? I wish I were rich like you, Pete. 80K is poor in NYC -- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse
On 2008-03-21, Randy wrote:
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:22:46 -0600, F. George McDuffee wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:20:05 -0600, F. George McDuffee wrote: Inspector arrested in NYC crane collapse =========== A quick survey Given that the deaths of several people resulted along with millions of dollars in property damage, and required extensive emergency services such as police, fire and EM, what felonies do you think the inspector, the inspector's supervisors and, if it can be proven, the project manager/owner should be charged with in addition to accepting/paying a bribe? That does not matter, this is the United States, Lawyers are now looking into the net worth and insurance policies of every person, corporation and government entity involved. They will place blame with the person or persons with the biggest bank roll. But just in case they will also name everyone in the lawsuits that they can tie into anyone involved in any way possible. If you sold an oil filter that was used on the truck which delivered that nylon strap to the job site expect to be sued. As far as I am concerned, |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 00:52:35 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, Wes
quickly quoth: Larry Jaques wrote: A grand a week is "volunteer" work? I wish I were rich like you, Pete. 80K is poor in NYC No WONDER I hate big cities. I's just a po white chile. -- Try not to become a man of success but rather to become a man of value. -- Albert Einstein |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:22:46 -0600, F. George McDuffee
wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:20:05 -0600, F. George McDuffee wrote: Inspector arrested in NYC crane collapse =========== A quick survey Given that the deaths of several people resulted along with millions of dollars in property damage, and required extensive emergency services such as police, fire and EM, what felonies do you think the inspector, the inspector's supervisors and, if it can be proven, the project manager/owner should be charged with in addition to accepting/paying a bribe? That does not matter, this is the United States, Lawyers are now looking into the net worth and insurance policies of every person, corporation and government entity involved. They will place blame with the person or persons with the biggest bank roll. But just in case they will also name everyone in the lawsuits that they can tie into anyone involved in any way possible. If you sold an oil filter that was used on the truck which delivered that nylon strap to the job site expect to be sued. Thank You, Randy Remove 333 from email address to reply. |
#13
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Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse
On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 03:55:44 GMT, Jim Chandler wrote:
One question to consider is what was the CONDITION of the straps. Nylon becomes very brittle when exposed to sunlight for long periods and it also cuts very easily when under tension. Could be there was a sharp or rough edge somewhere that the strap passed over and when tension was applied it just cut. Saw some graphic demonstrations of that when I was a loadmaster doing air drop. An 8 ply extration sling under tension from the extration chute can be cut in one or two swipes with a not necessarily sharp survival knife. Tends to open ones eyes, it does. I have a "snatchem strap" for my 4WD and have recently bought a replacement because the original had a few strands frayed - it is probably still good for at least 90% of original capacity but has been relegated to a towrope only where there will be no extreme stress as when snatching. Only been used about 3 times. Better to replace than have vehicle damage caused by one snapping. |
#14
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Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse
On Mar 21, 7:09*am, Randy wrote:
On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 21:22:46 -0600, F. George McDuffee wrote: On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 20:20:05 -0600, F. George McDuffee wrote: Inspector arrested in NYC crane collapse =========== A quick survey Given that the deaths of several people resulted along with millions of dollars in property damage, and required extensive emergency services such as police, fire and EM, what felonies do you think the inspector, the inspector's supervisors and, if it can be proven, the project manager/owner should be charged with in addition to accepting/paying a bribe? That does not matter, this is the United States, Lawyers are now looking into the net worth and insurance policies of every person, corporation and government entity involved. *They will place blame with the person or persons with the biggest bank roll. *But just in case they will also name everyone in the lawsuits that they can tie into anyone involved in any way possible. If you sold an oil filter that was used on the truck which delivered that nylon strap to the job site expect to be sued. Thank You, Randy Remove 333 from email address to reply. And if your loved one had been killed...you would just walk away? I think not. TMT |
#15
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Failure of strap may have caused NY crane collapse
Randy wrote:
That does not matter, this is the United States, Lawyers are now looking into the net worth and insurance policies of every person, corporation and government entity involved. They will place blame with the person or persons with the biggest bank roll. But just in case they will also name everyone in the lawsuits that they can tie into anyone involved in any way possible. If you sold an oil filter that was used on the truck which delivered that nylon strap to the job site expect to be sued. Welcome to the big pockets theory. Something only a lawyer could come up with. Wes -- "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller |
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