Is there any interest in wood gas cogeneration of electricity on this
newsgroup? That's where you cook wood and use the combustible part of
the gases to run an internal combustion engine to make electricity.

Is there any ng of this type around?

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------

"spaco" wrote in message

Is there any interest in wood gas cogeneration of electricity on this
newsgroup? That's where you cook wood and use the combustible part of
the gases to run an internal combustion engine to make electricity.

Is there any ng of this type around?

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------

I have been thinking about this same thing. My thoughts were to build a
furnace similar to this one and use some of the wood gas to operate a gas or
diesel genset. http://www.greenwoodfurnace.com/ There are some plans on the
internet for wood gas generators. It seems during the last gas scare the
government funded studies on this subject. I have looked at some of the
contraptions that have been built to feed vehicles but to have a wood burner
on the back of your car seems kind of ungainly. It seems compressed wood gas
or an electric car charged by a wood gas fueled genset might be a better
alternative.
Steve

The so called "wood gas" is carbon monoxide, with all related safety
issues. Something to be kept in mind. Not as big deal on a moving
vehicle, but a big deal with a furnace type use.

i

spaco wrote:

Is there any interest in wood gas cogeneration of electricity on this
newsgroup? That's where you cook wood and use the combustible part of
the gases to run an internal combustion engine to make electricity.

Is there any ng of this type around?

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------

Sure, go for it. I notice when I make charcoal by filling two 3# coffee
cans with wood bits, hammering one over the other, and poking a few holes in
the cans, an impressive amount of gas is liberated while cooking away over a
small fire.

http://garage-machinist.com/usenet/rcm/charcoal.jpg

Not terribly efficent but on a fall day, a few brews in hand it was nice to
sit by the warm fire and make some charcoal for heat treating experiments.

This does seem like something best done in winter were you get both heat and
combustable gas.

Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:26:46 -0500, spaco
wrote:

Is there any interest in wood gas cogeneration of electricity on this
newsgroup? That's where you cook wood and use the combustible part of
the gases to run an internal combustion engine to make electricity.

Is there any ng of this type around?

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------


Im certainly interested in this.

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Mar 19, 10:26*am, spaco wrote:
Is there any interest in wood gas cogeneration of electricity on this
newsgroup? * That's where you cook wood and use the combustible part of
the gases to run an internal combustion engine to make electricity.

Is there any ng of this type around?

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------

There is an alt.energy.homepower but what I've seen there is far more
buy than build.

I bought the Lindsay books on producer gas and wood distillation and
pretty much decided it isn't worth all the effort for home use,
considering that I've reduced my average consumption of electricity to
about $0.60 a day but need the full line capacity for machinery and
welding. Wood heat and hot water chores take enough of my time already
and it's hard enough to keep the chimney smoke-free when heat is the
only goal.

Much of the distillate is non-condensible and has to be used
immediately which turns you into a full-time power-plant engineer. The
liquid is contaminated with difficult-to-remove acids and tars.

Jim Wilkins

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:57:03 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner Asch quickly quoth:

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:26:46 -0500, spaco
wrote:

Is there any interest in wood gas cogeneration of electricity on this
newsgroup? That's where you cook wood and use the combustible part of
the gases to run an internal combustion engine to make electricity.

Is there any ng of this type around?

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------


Im certainly interested in this.

Isn't that both extremely inefficient and extra-polluting? (Like
making charcoal)

--
Death is more universal than life; everyone dies but not everyone lives.
-- A. Sachs

spaco wrote in
:

Is there any interest in wood gas cogeneration of electricity on this
newsgroup? That's where you cook wood and use the combustible part of
the gases to run an internal combustion engine to make electricity.

Is there any ng of this type around?

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------

Dunno about NGs or electrical generation but the Aussies had cars (taxis)
powered this way back during WW2.

Perhaps there may be some archives in Oz that would have diagrams.

FWIW, there are a number of charcoal-makers that utilize the gasses
distilled from the wood to fuel the process.

It'd seem to me that the problem with electrical generation would be to
provide sufficient heat to keep the gas distillation process continuing
while also using the distilled gas for motor fuel.

It'd also require a large amount of wood...

"RAM³" wrote in message
0...
spaco wrote in
:

Is there any interest in wood gas cogeneration of electricity on this
newsgroup? That's where you cook wood and use the combustible part of
the gases to run an internal combustion engine to make electricity.

Is there any ng of this type around?

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------

Dunno about NGs or electrical generation but the Aussies had cars (taxis)
powered this way back during WW2.

Perhaps there may be some archives in Oz that would have diagrams.

FWIW, there are a number of charcoal-makers that utilize the gasses
distilled from the wood to fuel the process.

It'd seem to me that the problem with electrical generation would be to
provide sufficient heat to keep the gas distillation process continuing
while also using the distilled gas for motor fuel.

It'd also require a large amount of wood...


A friend related a story to me about the Nazis using wood gas in cars
during WWII.

"Jon" wrote in news:RLcEj.4489$Nr1.1247
@trnddc01:

A friend related a story to me about the Nazis using wood gas in cars
during WWII.

Forest J. Sterling - in his book "Wake of the Wahoo" - describes the taxi
that he frequently rode in while in Brisbane.

The gas used in Europe was most likely Methane - aka "cooking gas" - as was
used by the French. In fact, the Demand Regulator made famous by Jacques
Cousteau was originally invented (and modified for Cousteau) by Emil Gagnan
to allow cars to be fuelled by "cooking gas". [See Cousteau's "The Silent
World" for details.]

There are a number of photos circulating that show European cars running
around with large cylindrical gas-bag "balloons" tied to their roofs.

"spaco" wrote in message
.. .
Is there any interest in wood gas cogeneration of electricity on this
newsgroup? That's where you cook wood and use the combustible part of
the gases to run an internal combustion engine to make electricity.

Is there any ng of this type around?

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------

A few years ago I purchased a book from Lindsay Publications
called Producer Gas. It was a reprint from the late 1940,so. It was from
Australia and their was an amazing number of commercial wood gas
units available for automotive use. One thing that the book emphasized
is that the gas must be cleaned to get rid of the particles before it is
used to power an internal combustion engine.

"NewsGroups" spar@plaus wrote in message
. ..

"spaco" wrote in message
.. .
Is there any interest in wood gas cogeneration of electricity on this
newsgroup? That's where you cook wood and use the combustible part of
the gases to run an internal combustion engine to make electricity.

Is there any ng of this type around?

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------

A few years ago I purchased a book from Lindsay Publications
called Producer Gas. It was a reprint from the late 1940,so. It was from
Australia and their was an amazing number of commercial wood gas
units available for automotive use. One thing that the book emphasized
is that the gas must be cleaned to get rid of the particles before it is
used to power an internal combustion engine.

My dad, who was in Australia for six months recovering from malaria late in
WWII, used to tell me about the wood-gas-powered taxis they used to take to
and from the pubs. He said they'd do about 25 or 30 mph, tops. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

When I was in Germany in the early '70's there was a WWII wood-powered
car still operating in Karlsruhe.

As I understand it, engine vacuum pulls combustion air through the
wood/charcoal fire in the rear and the filter cannisters on the roof.
A propane-type carburetor mixes the over-rich H2, CO and distillate
gas with air. The footpedal throttle thus still controls engine power
and gas generation rate. The power is about half of what it would be
with gasoline, largely because of the necessary pressure drop in the
generator and especially the filters. You could try supercharging it
but don't bother going for a patent; Oliver Evans supercharged his
steam boiler's firebox around 1800.

It's possible to improve the mix a little with water injection onto
the charcoal to create producer gas and reduce the nitrogen
percentage. Modern sensors and controls might even make it practical.

Jim Wilkins

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:26:46 -0500, spaco
wrote:

Is there any interest in wood gas cogeneration of electricity on this
newsgroup? That's where you cook wood and use the combustible part of
the gases to run an internal combustion engine to make electricity.

Is there any ng of this type around?

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------
Mother Earth News had a Chevy Pickup in the 80's they drove around on
wood gas. They had a 55 gallon drum in the bed for a furnace for fuel.
I don't remember much about it.
Sounds like you might like the magazine and their web site.
Dan

http://www.motherearthnews.com/

In article ,
spaco wrote:

Is there any interest in wood gas cogeneration of electricity on this
newsgroup? That's where you cook wood and use the combustible part of
the gases to run an internal combustion engine to make electricity.

Is there any ng of this type around?

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------

All you need do is check for posts made by a guy named Alan Connor. Oh,
God, I mentioned his name! Sorry. So very, very sorry.

On Thu, 20 Mar 2008 00:26:41 GMT, Dan@ (Dan ) Dan@ wrote:

Mother Earth News had a Chevy Pickup in the 80's they drove around on
wood gas. They had a 55 gallon drum in the bed for a furnace for fuel.
I don't remember much about it.
Sounds like you might like the magazine and their web site.
http://www.motherearthnews.com/

This may be unfair but, I lost any trust in Mother Earth News when I
read an article about a home-made pottery wheel. They suggested that
the foot-powered flywheel, coupled to the pottery wheel's table, could
be filled with sand "or water" to add weight. Last I checked, water
makes a lousy flywheel unless you lower the temperature to
significantly less than room temperature.

From that article, I overgeneralized perhaps, to "great idea, assume
untested" for their designs.

Just think, we can pollute the sky even more this way. Seems to me,
we just should start drilling in the Gulf, even in sight of Florida beaches,
On the West Coast shelf and the East coast shelf both of which have been
sold at high expense to the oil companies for a option to drill. And as
in Alaska, the Eco frantics prevented, halted, made existing rigs to be
removed (working ones as a mater of fact).

If science was to put it together with industry that cared, we would be
transforming coal deposits (we are the Saudi of coal to the world) into
fuel cars and trucks can use.

Currently the trucking companies and independents are going belly up
with the high cost of diesel. And all of the big talk of buying a small
moped (pollution big time) and dumping our trucks(required for my job and life).

I'd consider to drive a battery unit if safe enough, able to leap potholes
and not cost me an arm and a leg to charge it.

I think we should buy a solar array with each battery car and have the
solar array to aid and replace what is used.

Martin

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/


Dan wrote:
On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:26:46 -0500, spaco
wrote:

Is there any interest in wood gas cogeneration of electricity on this
newsgroup? That's where you cook wood and use the combustible part of
the gases to run an internal combustion engine to make electricity.

Is there any ng of this type around?

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------
Mother Earth News had a Chevy Pickup in the 80's they drove around on
wood gas. They had a 55 gallon drum in the bed for a furnace for fuel.
I don't remember much about it.
Sounds like you might like the magazine and their web site.
Dan

http://www.motherearthnews.com/


----== Posted via Pronews.Com - Unlimited-Unrestricted-Secure Usenet News==----
http://www.pronews.com The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! 100,000 Newsgroups
---= - Total Privacy via Encryption =---

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 21:17:03 -0500, "Martin H. Eastburn"
wrote:

Mucho snippage====

Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/



Aww stop being logical,,,, everyone knows why we
don't do the obvious. It's the powers that won't
change things when they have us paying thru the nose
and there's mostly nothing anyone can do..

There are so many living in the house of pain ie getting drained at
the pump..I hear regularly that it's almost to the point of not
being gainfull to drive to work every day with the cost of gas
so high.

ED

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:07:20 -0500, Ignoramus30927
wrote:

The so called "wood gas" is carbon monoxide, with all related safety
issues. Something to be kept in mind. Not as big deal on a moving
vehicle, but a big deal with a furnace type use.

Yeah, there's some potential disaster in using that, and then
there's all the sludge and other gack that doesn't vaporize that you
are going to have to deal with somehow.

Might be a whole lot safer and simpler to build a wood fired steam
boiler and use a small steam engine to drive the generator. Also a
good source for steam space heating and process heat.

If you want it to run automatically when unattended you could have
it switch to wood pellets or chopped corncobs, etc., and an
auto-stoker. The safety controls part (low water shutdowns, etc.) is
already time tested and proven safe WHEN USED AS DIRECTED.

Gee, I wonder if you could build a stoker that would feed dried tree
chippings - you can get them for free. But they would have to be in
covered storage to get dry and stay dry.

Lots of small boilers run totally unattended except for startup and
shutdown. Granted, most of them are burning oil or natural gas.

And you can get a non-hermetic compressor and have the steam engine
drive a refrigeration compressor for space cooling - build a big
ice-bunker tank and you only have to fire the boiler once a day to
keep the house cool.

-- Bruce --

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 10:21:12 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:57:03 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner Asch quickly quoth:

On Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:26:46 -0500, spaco
wrote:

Is there any interest in wood gas cogeneration of electricity on this
newsgroup? That's where you cook wood and use the combustible part of
the gases to run an internal combustion engine to make electricity.

Is there any ng of this type around?

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------


Im certainly interested in this.

Isn't that both extremely inefficient and extra-polluting? (Like
making charcoal)

Yes it is.

Its also the only way you can power a truck using the remains of the
house next door.

Gunner

On Fri, 21 Mar 2008 12:21:33 -0400, Steve Ackman
wrote:

In , on Thu, 20 Mar 2008 00:26:41
GMT, Dan@ (Dan ), Dan@ wrote:

Mother Earth News had a Chevy Pickup in the 80's they drove around on
wood gas. They had a 55 gallon drum in the bed for a furnace for fuel.
I don't remember much about it.
Sounds like you might like the magazine and their web site.
Dan

http://www.motherearthnews.com/

From '74, in addition to producer gas, they also
touch on coal gas.
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green...r-On-Wood.aspx

I believe that wood fueled gas generators were used in Europe during
WW II.


Bruce-in-Bangkok
(correct email address for reply)

"Steve Ackman" wrote in message
rg...

I believe that wood fueled gas generators were used in Europe during
WW II.

Yes, they were.

And in Australia.
My father and his brother ran a '28 Dodge with a gas producer here in Sydney
during WWII.

He had to shave the head to achieve the required compression. Same head was
buried in the backyard of the family home (to dispose of it!) when petrol
again became available.

--
Jeff R.

John Husvar wrote:
In article ,
spaco wrote:


Is there any interest in wood gas cogeneration of electricity on this
newsgroup? That's where you cook wood and use the combustible part of
the gases to run an internal combustion engine to make electricity.

Is there any ng of this type around?

Pete Stanaitis
-----------------


All you need do is check for posts made by a guy named Alan Connor. Oh,
God, I mentioned his name! Sorry. So very, very sorry.

Hi all,
over the pond,

I read your posts daily, great news group and good original thinking
tho im in the UK.
you should count yourselves lucky,
Here gas is $9.50 an imp gallon and diesel is $11.00 an imp gallon.
Also water from the local utility is now $3.00 a cubic meter.
Our local council rates ie building tax is $3000.00 a year
Those of us who live in the sticks are supposed to be better off than
the town folk.
Its usually the opposite.
Fortunately we supply all our own utilities, our main cost is red
diesel, which is not taxed as its considered to be agricultural use.
That is still $1.00 a uk gallon on a delivery of 500.
We use this for power generation with a 6kw :Lister sr2 startamatic set.
Out in the sticks there are no bus services, road sweeping, lights,
refuse collection so we have to have our own wheels for everything..
To do ones weekly run around, shopping at the nearest super market is 35
miles away, post office,and local town for bank access.
weekly fuel costs for a 32mpg Suzuki vitara (1600CC) is $60.00 a week.
apart from road tax of $300.00 a year, plus insurance plus Dept of
transport test.
So were thinking of a wood gas plant, in a small trailer.
Its been done before during the second world war.
So with improved materials here all gas powered.
Could save $10,000.00 a year.
Fortunately we have enough wood on our holding but still need to turn
it into chips or pellets to supply the wood gas plants.
What with everything else to do, likely to be very busy!!
As electricity generation from wood gas, here many folk are looking at
reprocessing waste vegetable cooking oil with methanol and sodium
hydroxide for diesel power.
Weve 50 galls put by so far which I got for free from my local recycling
center Yet to process it.
Ted
Dorset
UK.

On Mar 23, 1:28*pm, Ted Frater wrote:
* Here gas is $9.50 an imp gallon and diesel is $11.00 an imp gallon.
...
Fortunately we supply all our own utilities, our main cost is red
diesel, which is not taxed as its considered to be agricultural use.
* That is still $1.00 a uk gallon on a delivery of 500.
...
Ted
Dorset
UK

But you get it all back in social services.

Is it practical to operate your own steam plant there, or are boilers
regulated out of existence?

DIY home energy is hardly practical here if we comply with all the
safety and hazardous-waste regulations. Even windmills are very hard
to get approved; they "ruin the view". Where I live lead-acid storage
batteries have to be outside the house and winter temps drop to -20C
and occasionally -30C.

At least our wood-framed houses are easy to super-insulate.

Jim Wilkins

Jim Wilkins wrote:
On Mar 23, 1:28 pm, Ted Frater wrote:

Here gas is $9.50 an imp gallon and diesel is $11.00 an imp gallon.

...

Fortunately we supply all our own utilities, our main cost is red
diesel, which is not taxed as its considered to be agricultural use.
That is still $1.00 a uk gallon on a delivery of 500.

...

Ted
Dorset
UK


But you get it all back in social services.

Is it practical to operate your own steam plant there, or are boilers
regulated out of existence?

DIY home energy is hardly practical here if we comply with all the
safety and hazardous-waste regulations. Even windmills are very hard
to get approved; they "ruin the view". Where I live lead-acid storage
batteries have to be outside the house and winter temps drop to -20C
and occasionally -30C.

At least our wood-framed houses are easy to super-insulate.

Jim Wilkins

Social services?
Thats a myth out in the sticks.
As to operating a steam plant or any other plant,
the local ie town council are too lazy to get out of their heated
offices to look around in the rural areas so you cando pretty much what
you want. they are city folk who havnt a clue what goes on in the rural
areas.
Good job too!!.
To give you one example, last year there was a great plan to bring
recycling to every house hold in their area. and reduce the tonnage
going to land fill.
With wheelie bins and small boxes for metal ,paper etc.
I cantacted them to say how were they going to collect from us? who had
never had a refuse collection for 35 yrs!!.
They asked where are you?
Altho they knew where to send the local taxes bills, they didnt know
actually where we were!!.
there was no way we were going to wheel a wheelie bin 1/4 mile to the
nearest public highway, and we said we wanted a reduction in our taxes
for a servive we hadnt had nor wanted.
they refused.
Afterall we dont pay for water or electricity or sewage we provide all
our own.
So we now use the wheelie bin for kindling storage.
My house is wood framed ,built it myself some 35 yrs ago. Also very warm
to live in.
We also have alkaline batteries(potassium hydroxide nife cells) stored
under the stairs, for our 12v low voltage lighting system.
Weve just invested in an outback system, to go with our gen set and the
other battery bank we aquired some 18mnths ago. thats some 3 tons of
"alcad" ex british rail standby signal batteries. New cost $500.000.00
I paid $60.00 a ton for them.
Weve 10 acres of land, with no neibours for 1 mile.
All wood for heating cooking.
Naturally proper tractor driven saw benches etc.
Very independent and bloody minded with it.