Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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"Karl Townsend" wrote:

"The Kid" got laid off Thursday. Last day of work on Friday. He's got a ton
o' payments - house, car, student loan, credit cards.

It took him till 10:00 A.M. today to get another good job. He's lead man -
programmer, setup, order tooling etc. in a five man shop. Quite a change
from the large corporation. Pay is close to the same at $25 but little OT,
vs. 10 - 20 hours before.


Glad that your son was able to rapidly gain another job. I hope he took
reflection on how his choices and obligations require a fairly constant
stream of income.

Ask him how long he could have lasted if the economy was totally down and he
had to rely on unemployement and savings.

Your son has good marketable skills but he needs to always keep in mind what
would happen if... If you get hurt outside of work, most places don't keep
you on for long and poof goes the health insurance unless you can make the
cobra payments.

He needs to have a reserve fund in liquid funds. Hopefully he has it but I
bet he doesn't.

Wes






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On Mar 17, 10:27*am, Wes wrote:
"Karl Townsend" wrote:
"The Kid" got laid off Thursday. Last day of work on Friday. He's got a ton
o' payments - house, car, student loan, credit cards.


It took him till 10:00 A.M. today to get another good job. He's lead man -
programmer, setup, order tooling etc. in a five man shop. Quite a change
from the large corporation. Pay is close to the same at $25 but little OT,
vs. 10 - 20 hours before.


Glad that your son was able to rapidly gain another job. *I hope he took
reflection on how his choices and obligations require a fairly constant
stream of income.

Ask him how long he could have lasted if the economy was totally down and he
had to rely on unemployement and savings.

Your son has good marketable skills but he needs to always keep in mind what
would happen if... *If you get hurt outside of work, most places don't keep
you on for long and poof goes the health insurance unless you can make the
cobra payments.

He needs to have a reserve fund in liquid funds. *Hopefully he has it but I
bet he doesn't.

Wes


And prepare for the next layoff...the economy is tanking and has not
seen the bottom.

And then there is that small matter of daily bank failures...

It's time to be eating beans until the debts are paid off...

TMT
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On Mar 17, 10:27*am, Wes wrote:
"Karl Townsend" wrote:
"The Kid" got laid off Thursday. Last day of work on Friday. He's got a ton
o' payments - house, car, student loan, credit cards.


It took him till 10:00 A.M. today to get another good job. He's lead man -
programmer, setup, order tooling etc. in a five man shop. Quite a change
from the large corporation. Pay is close to the same at $25 but little OT,
vs. 10 - 20 hours before.


Glad that your son was able to rapidly gain another job. *I hope he took
reflection on how his choices and obligations require a fairly constant
stream of income.

Ask him how long he could have lasted if the economy was totally down and he
had to rely on unemployement and savings.

Your son has good marketable skills but he needs to always keep in mind what
would happen if... *If you get hurt outside of work, most places don't keep
you on for long and poof goes the health insurance unless you can make the
cobra payments.

He needs to have a reserve fund in liquid funds. *Hopefully he has it but I
bet he doesn't.

Wes


I should add that Wes is giving some EXCELLENT advice.

I know far too many people with similar qualifications who have been
unemployed for well over a year...and their rainy day funds are long
gone.

TMT
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Too_Many_Tools wrote:

And prepare for the next layoff...the economy is tanking and has not
seen the bottom.

And then there is that small matter of daily bank failures...


That Bear Sterns thing gave me the willies. Notice how fast government can
move on approvals when it has to?

There is something rotten in our psychic when we believe in ez money over
just plain hard effort and work to get a head. Flipping properties, buying
over your ability to pay and believing the road a head is bright and pothole
free. The character of our citizens is declining for the most part.

Mining equity for temporary pleasure has to be the most brainless acts of
consumption.

noun
1. the act of consuming, as by use, decay, or destruction.

Wes


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Ask him how long he could have lasted if the economy was totally down and
he
had to rely on unemployement and savings.


He would have been in trouble by Wednesday. (day after tommorrow)


Your son has good marketable skills but he needs to always keep in mind
what
would happen if... If you get hurt outside of work, most places don't
keep
you on for long and poof goes the health insurance unless you can make the
cobra payments.

He needs to have a reserve fund in liquid funds. Hopefully he has it but
I
bet he doesn't.


I tells him and tells him. He don't listen. I didn't listen to my dad either
when I was a young buck. What goes around comes around.

Karl





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On 2008-03-17, Wes wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

And prepare for the next layoff...the economy is tanking and has not
seen the bottom.

And then there is that small matter of daily bank failures...


That Bear Sterns thing gave me the willies. Notice how fast government can
move on approvals when it has to?

There is something rotten in our psychic when we believe in ez money over
just plain hard effort and work to get a head. Flipping properties, buying
over your ability to pay and believing the road a head is bright and pothole
free. The character of our citizens is declining for the most part.


I agree with you, but this character decline was caused by willingness of
lenders to make loans that were too risky. No doubt this was caused by
mortgage securitization that allowed "dumb money" to participate in
mortgage lending.

Mining equity for temporary pleasure has to be the most brainless acts of
consumption.

noun
1. the act of consuming, as by use, decay, or destruction.

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Ignoramus22030 wrote:

I agree with you, but this character decline was caused by willingness of
lenders to make loans that were too risky. No doubt this was caused by
mortgage securitization that allowed "dumb money" to participate in
mortgage lending.


The other part is not teaching the realities of finance to those young heads
of mush. Look at how schools of higher education cut deals with the credit
card companies. That sure is teaching the kids something usefull.

You feeling good about your gold investments atm?

Wes
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On Mar 17, 11:45*am, Wes wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
And prepare for the next layoff...the economy is tanking and has not
seen the bottom.


And then there is that small matter of daily bank failures...


That Bear Sterns thing gave me the willies. *Notice how fast government can
move on approvals when it has to?

There is something rotten in our psychic when we believe in ez money over
just plain hard effort and work to get a head. *Flipping properties, buying
over your ability to pay and believing the road a head is bright and pothole
free. The character of our citizens is declining for the most part.

Mining equity for temporary pleasure has to be the most brainless acts of
consumption.

noun
1. * * *the act of consuming, as by use, decay, or destruction.

Wes


It should give every American taxpayer the shock of their lives...they
were just signed up to pay for that default.

And it is not the last one....

This is how a depression starts....

TMT
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Ignoramus22030 wrote:

On 2008-03-17, Wes wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

And prepare for the next layoff...the economy is tanking and has not
seen the bottom.

And then there is that small matter of daily bank failures...


That Bear Sterns thing gave me the willies. Notice how fast government can
move on approvals when it has to?

There is something rotten in our psychic when we believe in ez money over
just plain hard effort and work to get a head. Flipping properties, buying
over your ability to pay and believing the road a head is bright and pothole
free. The character of our citizens is declining for the most part.


I agree with you, but this character decline was caused by willingness of
lenders to make loans that were too risky. No doubt this was caused by
mortgage securitization that allowed "dumb money" to participate in
mortgage lending.


You don't think the corruption of the stock market from a long term
investment where you expected to take income from the dividends to a
market timing short term game to extract virtual wealth had anything to
do with it? I think our economy is still in doo doo and will continue to
be until this issue is addressed as well.
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"Karl Townsend" wrote:

I tells him and tells him. He don't listen. I didn't listen to my dad either
when I was a young buck. What goes around comes around.


We do seem to get our smarts after we tried the other way a few times first.

Wes


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On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 13:45:04 -0400, Wes wrote:

Too_Many_Tools wrote:

And prepare for the next layoff...the economy is tanking and has not
seen the bottom.

And then there is that small matter of daily bank failures...


That Bear Sterns thing gave me the willies. Notice how fast government can
move on approvals when it has to?

The FED had been reluctant to even reconize the problem back in
August, they just played around with interest rate bumps when all
along this crisis screamed for major intervention, Remember Prez
Bush reassuring us that government needs to leave the markets
alone yada yada. And again last week he says the same,..he's an
idiot.

It's really a tragady of historic proportions to see BSC go under the
way it did.

There was a huge amount of pension money that just went poof...
and this is far from over. If the fed had acted last week in the
manor it did yesterday BSC would have survived IMO Stay
tuned we haven't seen anything yet...ED









Wes


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On 2008-03-17, Wes wrote:
Ignoramus22030 wrote:

I agree with you, but this character decline was caused by willingness of
lenders to make loans that were too risky. No doubt this was caused by
mortgage securitization that allowed "dumb money" to participate in
mortgage lending.


The other part is not teaching the realities of finance to those
young heads of mush. Look at how schools of higher education cut
deals with the credit card companies. That sure is teaching the
kids something usefull.


That's true. People who borrowed too much relative to their income,
definitely are responsible for their downfall. However, investors who
lent money based on lax criteria, have themselves to blame for this.

You feeling good about your gold investments atm?


I never owned any gold, but I have Euros.

I am not feeling too good about these developments, as both most of my
assets and all my income and life in general is based on the US
economy, so my Euro investment means that I lost somewhat less than I
could. Ideally, I would much prefer my euro investment to wither due to
a more responsible fiscal policy.

i
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On 2008-03-17, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus22030 wrote:

On 2008-03-17, Wes wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

And prepare for the next layoff...the economy is tanking and has not
seen the bottom.

And then there is that small matter of daily bank failures...


That Bear Sterns thing gave me the willies. Notice how fast government can
move on approvals when it has to?

There is something rotten in our psychic when we believe in ez money over
just plain hard effort and work to get a head. Flipping properties, buying
over your ability to pay and believing the road a head is bright and pothole
free. The character of our citizens is declining for the most part.


I agree with you, but this character decline was caused by willingness of
lenders to make loans that were too risky. No doubt this was caused by
mortgage securitization that allowed "dumb money" to participate in
mortgage lending.


You don't think the corruption of the stock market from a long term
investment where you expected to take income from the dividends to a
market timing short term game to extract virtual wealth had anything to
do with it? I think our economy is still in doo doo and will continue to
be until this issue is addressed as well.


If I understand you right, this issue of greed and fear periodically
overtaking each other, is very hard to solve.

i
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On Mar 17, 11:48*am, "Karl Townsend"
wrote:
Ask him how long he could have lasted if the economy was totally down and
he
had to rely on unemployement and savings.


He would have been in trouble by Wednesday. (day after tommorrow)



Your son has good marketable skills but he needs to always keep in mind
what
would happen if... *If you get hurt outside of work, most places don't
keep
you on for long and poof goes the health insurance unless you can make the
cobra payments.


He needs to have a reserve fund in liquid funds. *Hopefully he has it but
I
bet he doesn't.


I tells him and tells him. He don't listen. I didn't listen to my dad either
when I was a young buck. What goes around comes around.

Karl


I am sorry to hear that.

I know of several families who are seeing the same thing...and their
kids are going through very bad financial stuff...only to get worse.

As a parent you need to decide how much you will help him when IT
happens...and IT will.

Defining the boundaries early as to how much help you will offer is
best for all involved.

And don't offer to cosign any loans.

TMT
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Ignoramus22030 wrote:

On 2008-03-17, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus22030 wrote:

On 2008-03-17, Wes wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

And prepare for the next layoff...the economy is tanking and has not
seen the bottom.

And then there is that small matter of daily bank failures...


That Bear Sterns thing gave me the willies. Notice how fast government can
move on approvals when it has to?

There is something rotten in our psychic when we believe in ez money over
just plain hard effort and work to get a head. Flipping properties, buying
over your ability to pay and believing the road a head is bright and pothole
free. The character of our citizens is declining for the most part.

I agree with you, but this character decline was caused by willingness of
lenders to make loans that were too risky. No doubt this was caused by
mortgage securitization that allowed "dumb money" to participate in
mortgage lending.


You don't think the corruption of the stock market from a long term
investment where you expected to take income from the dividends to a
market timing short term game to extract virtual wealth had anything to
do with it? I think our economy is still in doo doo and will continue to
be until this issue is addressed as well.


If I understand you right, this issue of greed and fear periodically
overtaking each other, is very hard to solve.

i


Ultimately I think it all comes down to a global short attention span.
The knowledge gained from any particular bad event, be it a world war,
genocide, great depression, etc. pretty much never sinks in to the next
generations psyche and is further lost on subsequent generations so the
mistakes that lead to the problem will inevitably be repeated.


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"Pete C." wrote in message
et...

Ignoramus22030 wrote:

On 2008-03-17, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus22030 wrote:

On 2008-03-17, Wes wrote:
Too_Many_Tools wrote:

And prepare for the next layoff...the economy is tanking and has not
seen the bottom.

And then there is that small matter of daily bank failures...


That Bear Sterns thing gave me the willies. Notice how fast
government can
move on approvals when it has to?

There is something rotten in our psychic when we believe in ez money
over
just plain hard effort and work to get a head. Flipping properties,
buying
over your ability to pay and believing the road a head is bright and
pothole
free. The character of our citizens is declining for the most part.


Belief in easy money is easy, because it's real.

My son, who is an economics student at a very small, fairly conservative
Southern university that turns out an exceptional number of Wall Street
tycoons, attended a Morgan Stanley presentation last week. With 1,750 total
students on campus, one of the largest halls was packed to standing-room
only.

These kids are interested because that's where the action is. It's a lively
business; there's huge money floating all around you, and the action is hot.
If you look good and you're personable -- and if you're good at calculus --
the analyst's jobs are not that hard to get. And they pay more to start, in
some cases, than I've ever made in my life.

What's not to like? Working hard is highly overrated as a way to make money.
It's not a bad way to live, but its connection to money-making has grown
pretty remote. Right?

--
Ed Huntress


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On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:22:31 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Pete C." wrote in message
. net...

Ignoramus22030 wrote:

On 2008-03-17, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus22030 wrote:

e.

What's not to like? Working hard is highly overrated as a way to make money.
It's not a bad way to live, but its connection to money-making has grown
pretty remote. Right?


Getting hired in NYC in the financial district is just the first
step. Most of the folks (I know a few) I know who work there put in
very long hours. Seriously. 7-9 is average, that's 14 hrs 6-7 days a
week the new kids really have no life other than work. And
the higher you get the harder you have to work...

But if you are talented, driven, well educated, and a bit lucky and
like the NYC lifestyle it's great.

ED



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"ED" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:22:31 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


"Pete C." wrote in message
.net...

Ignoramus22030 wrote:

On 2008-03-17, Pete C. wrote:

Ignoramus22030 wrote:

e.

What's not to like? Working hard is highly overrated as a way to make
money.
It's not a bad way to live, but its connection to money-making has grown
pretty remote. Right?


Getting hired in NYC in the financial district is just the first
step. Most of the folks (I know a few) I know who work there put in
very long hours. Seriously. 7-9 is average, that's 14 hrs 6-7 days a
week the new kids really have no life other than work. And
the higher you get the harder you have to work...

But if you are talented, driven, well educated, and a bit lucky and
like the NYC lifestyle it's great.


Yeah, I know they work like dogs, and my son does, too. I think that most of
the interest from these kids is the excitement and glamour.

Still, on an income/effort basis, it beats most work all to hell.

--
Ed Huntress


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On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:21:17 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


But if you are talented, driven, well educated, and a bit lucky and
like the NYC lifestyle it's great.


Yeah, I know they work like dogs, and my son does, too. I think that most of
the interest from these kids is the excitement and glamour.

Still, on an income/effort basis, it beats most work all to hell.




Thats why it's called work, I suppose, and yep they make some
serious dough. But I also have it on good authority that a life
out west on a ranch or some such is not necessiarly a bad thing....I
agree..
ED



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"ED" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 20:21:17 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:


But if you are talented, driven, well educated, and a bit lucky and
like the NYC lifestyle it's great.


Yeah, I know they work like dogs, and my son does, too. I think that most
of
the interest from these kids is the excitement and glamour.

Still, on an income/effort basis, it beats most work all to hell.




Thats why it's called work, I suppose, and yep they make some
serious dough. But I also have it on good authority that a life
out west on a ranch or some such is not necessiarly a bad thing....I
agree..



We haven't seen a polished and highly public pitch for that idea for quite a
while, but Bill McKibben's _Deep Economy_ comes close. You might find it
interesting.

--
Ed Huntress




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"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...
On Mar 17, 10:27 am, Wes wrote:
"Karl Townsend" wrote:
"The Kid" got laid off Thursday. Last day of work on Friday. He's got a ton
o' payments - house, car, student loan, credit cards.


It took him till 10:00 A.M. today to get another good job. He's lead man -
programmer, setup, order tooling etc. in a five man shop. Quite a change
from the large corporation. Pay is close to the same at $25 but little OT,
vs. 10 - 20 hours before.


Glad that your son was able to rapidly gain another job. I hope he took
reflection on how his choices and obligations require a fairly constant
stream of income.

Ask him how long he could have lasted if the economy was totally down and he
had to rely on unemployement and savings.

Your son has good marketable skills but he needs to always keep in mind what
would happen if... If you get hurt outside of work, most places don't keep
you on for long and poof goes the health insurance unless you can make the
cobra payments.

He needs to have a reserve fund in liquid funds. Hopefully he has it but I
bet he doesn't.

Wes


And prepare for the next layoff...the economy is tanking and has not
seen the bottom.

And then there is that small matter of daily bank failures...

It's time to be eating beans until the debts are paid off...

TMT

That's one look. Another, more realistic is that this is a HUGE opportunity.
If you're so doomy-gloomy you should take all your worthless money and all you
can borrow and use it to buy hard goods that won't loose all their value like
money will. I'd recommend wire brushes, but lead time are getting longer as I'm
booked for months even running over-time and weekends, and hiring warm bodies as
fast as I can.


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On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:30:41 -0400, "Ed Huntress"
wrote:




We haven't seen a polished and highly public pitch for that idea for quite a
while, but Bill McKibben's _Deep Economy_ comes close. You might find it
interesting.




Thank you---It does look quite interesting--and in these times
on target ..It's on my list. ED
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On Mar 17, 8:57*pm, "Tom Gardner" wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message

...
On Mar 17, 10:27 am, Wes wrote:





"Karl Townsend" wrote:
"The Kid" got laid off Thursday. Last day of work on Friday. He's got a ton
o' payments - house, car, student loan, credit cards.


It took him till 10:00 A.M. today to get another good job. He's lead man -
programmer, setup, order tooling etc. in a five man shop. Quite a change
from the large corporation. Pay is close to the same at $25 but little OT,
vs. 10 - 20 hours before.


Glad that your son was able to rapidly gain another job. I hope he took
reflection on how his choices and obligations require a fairly constant
stream of income.


Ask him how long he could have lasted if the economy was totally down and he
had to rely on unemployement and savings.


Your son has good marketable skills but he needs to always keep in mind what
would happen if... If you get hurt outside of work, most places don't keep
you on for long and poof goes the health insurance unless you can make the
cobra payments.


He needs to have a reserve fund in liquid funds. Hopefully he has it but I
bet he doesn't.


Wes


And prepare for the next layoff...the economy is tanking and has not
seen the bottom.

And then there is that small matter of daily bank failures...

It's time to be eating beans until the debts are paid off...

TMT

That's one look. *Another, more realistic is that this is a HUGE opportunity.
If you're so doomy-gloomy you should take all your worthless money and all you
can borrow and use it to buy hard goods that won't loose all their value like
money will. *I'd recommend wire brushes, but lead time are getting longer as I'm
booked for months even running over-time and weekends, and hiring warm bodies as
fast as I can.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


LOL...Good to hear times are good with you...you are an
exception...that is if times are actually good.

Times were good at Bear Stearns last week...not so good today.

A dose of reality might help correct your mispreception of what is
really going on.

If you feel lucky maybe you might want to use all your worthless money
to buy some of Bear Stearns.

TMT


Deepening slump envelops factory sector By Glenn Somerville
Mon Mar 17

A spreading economic malaise seeped into U.S. factories in February
and March as waning demand more than offset the export benefits of a
cheaper dollar, a series of reports showed on Monday.

A Federal Reserve report on industrial output showed factories ran at
their slowest rate in more than two years during February while a key
gauge of factory business in the Northeastern U.S. slumped to a record
low in March.

Taken together, the reports reinforced concern that the world's
largest economy stalled during the first quarter and was in an actual
downturn, though Bush administration officials refuse to concede a
recession has started.

The New York Fed said its "Empire State" gauge of general business
activity plunged in March to a record minus 22.23 from minus 11.72 in
February, far worse than analysts had expected, as was the case with
the broader industrial production report.

The Fed report showed overall industrial production by the nation's
mines, factories and utilities fell an unexpectedly steep 0.5 percent
in February. That followed a slight 0.1 percent January gain and was
the biggest decline in total output since last October.

Market participants, transfixed by developments in the U.S. financial
sector after a weekend collapse of one large firm and new Fed action
to add liquidity, paid scant attention to the latest economic numbers.

After see-sawing throughout the day, the Dow Jones industrial average
ended up 0.18 percent at 11,972.25. The Nasdaq Composite Index posted
a 1.6 percent loss to close at 2,177.01.

Investors scrambled for safety into U.S. Treasury securities, driving
prices up for longer maturities and yields down ahead of a Fed policy-
setting meeting on Tuesday that is widely expected to deliver the
central bank's next move, a hefty cut in its benchmark federal funds
rate.

The stress on factories showed up in the measure of manufacturing,
with output down 0.2 percent in February after being flat in January.
That left the manufacturing sector running at 79.3 percent of total
operating capacity, the lowest rate since 79.2 percent in October
2005.

"The implication for the economy is that the manufacturing sector,
even though it benefits substantially by a weaker dollar, is in
decline, hurt by a domestic slowdown," said economist Cary Leahey of
Decision Economics Inc in New York.

"This report is saying that the economy is in recession in the first
quarter," Leahey added.

Separately, the National Association of Home Builders said builder
sentiment remained near historic lows in March. Its NAHB/Wells Fargo
Housing Market Index was unchanged from February at 20 -- with any
reading under 50 signaling that more builders see conditions as bleak
than view them favorably.

The latest signs of economic distress occur against a backdrop of
mounting woe in the U.S. financial sector, where the Fed once more
stepped in on Sunday night to cut a lending rate to try to keep
financial markets from panicking and seizing up.

That came hours after a deal was announced for a takeover of ailing
investment bank Bear Stearns by JPMorgan Chase & Co for a bargain-
basement price of $2 a share. That deal committed the Fed to fund up
to $30 billion of Bear Stearns' less-liquid assets and highlighted a
loss of investor confidence in the health of the U.S. financial
system.

President George W. Bush, who met his top economic advisers on Monday
morning, said afterward the economy faced "challenging times" but
played down fears cited by some analysts that it was confronting its
worst set of conditions in decades.

"In the long run our economy's going to be fine," said Bush, who
leaves office next January and does not want to leave presumed
Republican presidential nominee Sen. John McCain in any worse position
than necessary when November elections occur. He said the United
States was "on top of the situation."

A Treasury Department report showing net overall capital inflows to
the United States fell sharply in January underlined the skepticism
that foreigners have about the direction of the U.S. economy.

Inflows dropped to $37.4 billion from $72.7 billion in December -- not
enough to cover the month's $58.2 billion deficit on trade with the
rest of the world and therefore likely to maintain pressure on a
steadily sliding U.S. dollar.

The only glimmer of hope came in a report from the Commerce Department
showing a modest improvement in the broadest gauge of total U.S. trade
with the rest of the world.

Soaring U.S. deficits are cited by academic economists as a root cause
of deepening problems in the economy because they reflect the
propensity of U.S. consumers to spend rather than save and to borrow
endlessly from abroad to finance spending.

The U.S. current account deficit narrowed in the fourth quarter to
$172.9 billion from a revised $177.4 billion in the third quarter, the
Commerce Department said.

(Additional reporting by Burton Frierson, Pedro Nicolaci da Costa and
Gertrude Chavez in New York; Editing by Dan Grebler)



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"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...

LOL...Good to hear times are good with you...you are an
exception...that is if times are actually good.

Times were good at Bear Stearns last week...not so good today.

A dose of reality might help correct your mispreception of what is
really going on.

If you feel lucky maybe you might want to use all your worthless money
to buy some of Bear Stearns.

TMT

I have no misconceptions, you should examine yours. Bear Stearns is/was a house
of cards. Volumes will be written about this period and lessons will be
learned. But, it's not the end of the world. Sorry for you to hear but EVERY
one I know in business (it seems almost all of my friends are in business) is
going gang-busters! It could be that we all have the same value system and have
built our businesses on solid foundations and not "get rich quick" schemes. Can
Bear Sterns say the same? Why do you think the housing market/sub-prime bubble
was unsustainable? Gee, who didn't see THAT coming?


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Tom Gardner wrote:

I have no misconceptions, you should examine yours. Bear Stearns is/was a house
of cards. Volumes will be written about this period and lessons will be
learned. But, it's not the end of the world. Sorry for you to hear but EVERY
one I know in business (it seems almost all of my friends are in business) is
going gang-busters! It could be that we all have the same value system and have
built our businesses on solid foundations and not "get rich quick" schemes. Can
Bear Sterns say the same? Why do you think the housing market/sub-prime bubble
was unsustainable? Gee, who didn't see THAT coming?



Their investors?


BTW, if you get too tired of the snow, and looking for workers, you
should consider Florida. Reasonable real estate, lots of willing
workers, plus it's a "Right to Work" state.


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"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Tom Gardner wrote:

I have no misconceptions, you should examine yours. Bear Stearns is/was a
house
of cards. Volumes will be written about this period and lessons will be
learned. But, it's not the end of the world. Sorry for you to hear but
EVERY
one I know in business (it seems almost all of my friends are in business) is
going gang-busters! It could be that we all have the same value system and
have
built our businesses on solid foundations and not "get rich quick" schemes.
Can
Bear Sterns say the same? Why do you think the housing market/sub-prime
bubble
was unsustainable? Gee, who didn't see THAT coming?



Their investors?


BTW, if you get too tired of the snow, and looking for workers, you
should consider Florida. Reasonable real estate, lots of willing
workers, plus it's a "Right to Work" state.


And, 365 fishing, golf, etc... But, heat, bugs, crocodiles and lots of old
people.


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"Wes" wrote in message
...
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
There is something rotten in our psychic when we believe in ez money
over
just plain hard effort and work to get a head. Flipping properties,
buying
over your ability to pay and believing the road a head is bright and
pothole
free. The character of our citizens is declining for the most part.


Sounds like thermo dynamics for humans.

B


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On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 04:35:42 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:


"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...

LOL...Good to hear times are good with you...you are an
exception...that is if times are actually good.

Times were good at Bear Stearns last week...not so good today.

A dose of reality might help correct your mispreception of what is
really going on.

If you feel lucky maybe you might want to use all your worthless money
to buy some of Bear Stearns.

TMT

I have no misconceptions, you should examine yours. Bear Stearns is/was a house
of cards.


Not exactly a house of cards..One of the biggest business
underwriters in the world.

Their losses from the two hedge funds that went under triggering the
subprime crisis were more than offset by other units
within their operations but to no avail..

It was the CREDIT CRUNCH that did them in---not subprime paper. It
was the subprime that set off the credit crunch..






Were these guys one of your customers?

http://new.savannahnow.com/node/424634

ED





Volumes will be written about this period and lessons will be
learned. But, it's not the end of the world. Sorry for you to hear but EVERY
one I know in business (it seems almost all of my friends are in business) is
going gang-busters! It could be that we all have the same value system and have
built our businesses on solid foundations and not "get rich quick" schemes. Can
Bear Sterns say the same? Why do you think the housing market/sub-prime bubble
was unsustainable? Gee, who didn't see THAT coming?


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"ED" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 04:35:42 GMT, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:


"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...

LOL...Good to hear times are good with you...you are an
exception...that is if times are actually good.

Times were good at Bear Stearns last week...not so good today.

A dose of reality might help correct your mispreception of what is
really going on.

If you feel lucky maybe you might want to use all your worthless money
to buy some of Bear Stearns.

TMT

I have no misconceptions, you should examine yours. Bear Stearns is/was a
house
of cards.


Not exactly a house of cards..One of the biggest business
underwriters in the world.

Their losses from the two hedge funds that went under triggering the
subprime crisis were more than offset by other units
within their operations but to no avail..

It was the CREDIT CRUNCH that did them in---not subprime paper. It
was the subprime that set off the credit crunch..






Were these guys one of your customers?

http://new.savannahnow.com/node/424634

ED


Not directly, but they could have been buying from a number of shipyard supply
outfits in Missouri that I sell to.


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On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 22:57:43 -0400, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:

That's one look. Another, more realistic is that this is a HUGE opportunity.
If you're so doomy-gloomy you should take all your worthless money and all you
can borrow and use it to buy hard goods that won't loose all their value like
money will. I'd recommend wire brushes, but lead time are getting longer as I'm
booked for months even running over-time and weekends, and hiring warm bodies as
fast as I can.


So? The Kid needs a little overtime, so why isn't he coming up to
the plant and putting some in? I think he knows where to find it...

-- Bruce --



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On Tue, 18 Mar 2008 12:17:14 GMT, "Bernie" wrote:


"Wes" wrote in message
...
Too_Many_Tools wrote:
There is something rotten in our psychic when we believe in ez money
over
just plain hard effort and work to get a head. Flipping properties,
buying
over your ability to pay and believing the road a head is bright and
pothole
free. The character of our citizens is declining for the most part.


Sounds like thermo dynamics for humans.

B

=============
IMNSHO the problem is not so much the people in general, as these
tend to be a "tabula rasa" [blank slate] but rather the
enormously effect "agitprop" activities are having that now
bombard and assail the citizens their entire waking hours,
pushing EZ credit, fast food, pill popping (for anything that
ails you, and lots of things you never thought of before), and
casual sex.

Take one hour [the maximum that most people can stand] and really
watch TV or listen to radio, paying particular attention to the
ads and product placements within the shows.

The amazing thing is not that the people are acting against their
own best long-term self interests, but that so many do not.

I have no solution for this, easy or otherwise, except to note
"when things can't continue, they won't..."


Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?

Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
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Tom Gardner wrote:

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

Their investors?

BTW, if you get too tired of the snow, and looking for workers, you
should consider Florida. Reasonable real estate, lots of willing
workers, plus it's a "Right to Work" state.


And, 365 fishing, golf, etc... But, heat, bugs, crocodiles and lots of old
people.



Only in the tourist areas of the state. The good areas are reserved
for the full time residents.


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On Mar 17, 10:35*pm, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message

...

LOL...Good to hear times are good with you...you are an
exception...that is if times are actually good.

Times were good at Bear Stearns last week...not so good today.

A dose of reality might help correct your mispreception of what is
really going on.

If you feel lucky maybe you might want to use all your worthless money
to buy some of Bear Stearns.

TMT

I have no misconceptions, you should examine yours. *Bear Stearns is/was a house
of cards. *Volumes will be written about this period and lessons will be
learned. *But, it's not the end of the world. *Sorry for you to hear but EVERY
one I know in business (it seems almost all of my friends are in business) is
going gang-busters! *It could be that we all have the same value system and have
built our businesses on solid foundations and not "get rich quick" schemes.. *Can
Bear Sterns say the same? *Why do you think the housing market/sub-prime bubble
was unsustainable? *Gee, who didn't see THAT coming?


Tom...read the article I posted.

Most everybody is NOT going gang-busters....they are hurting.

That is reality...no matter what you think is going on.

If your little corner of the world is doing well...great..and I am
happy for your good fortune...but realize that you are the minority at
the moment.

In other words, your fortunes are likely to change...so prepare for
the rainy day...it is coming.

TMT
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On Mar 17, 10:55*pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Tom Gardner wrote:

I have no misconceptions, you should examine yours. *Bear Stearns is/was a house
of cards. *Volumes will be written about this period and lessons will be
learned. *But, it's not the end of the world. *Sorry for you to hear but EVERY
one I know in business (it seems almost all of my friends are in business) is
going gang-busters! *It could be that we all have the same value system and have
built our businesses on solid foundations and not "get rich quick" schemes. *Can
Bear Sterns say the same? *Why do you think the housing market/sub-prime bubble
was unsustainable? *Gee, who didn't see THAT coming?


* *Their investors?

* *BTW, if you get too tired of the snow, and looking for workers, you
should consider Florida. Reasonable real estate, lots of willing
workers, plus it's a "Right to Work" state.

--
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Add this line to your news proxy nfilter.dat file
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http://improve-usenet.org/index.html


Huh...better read some FL financials...the state is hurting.

I would be very hesitant to move there.

TMT
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Too_Many_Tools wrote:

On Mar 17, 10:55 pm, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
Tom Gardner wrote:

I have no misconceptions, you should examine yours. Bear Stearns is/was a house
of cards. Volumes will be written about this period and lessons will be
learned. But, it's not the end of the world. Sorry for you to hear but EVERY
one I know in business (it seems almost all of my friends are in business) is
going gang-busters! It could be that we all have the same value system and have
built our businesses on solid foundations and not "get rich quick" schemes. Can
Bear Sterns say the same? Why do you think the housing market/sub-prime bubble
was unsustainable? Gee, who didn't see THAT coming?


Their investors?

BTW, if you get too tired of the snow, and looking for workers, you
should consider Florida. Reasonable real estate, lots of willing
workers, plus it's a "Right to Work" state.

--
aioe.org is home to cowards and terrorists

Add this line to your news proxy nfilter.dat file
* drop Path:*aioe.org!not-for-mail to drop all aioe.org traffic.

http://improve-usenet.org/index.html


Huh...better read some FL financials...the state is hurting.

I would be very hesitant to move there.



Not the whole state, idiot.


--
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Michael A. Terrell wrote:
BTW, if you get too tired of the snow, and looking for workers, you
should consider Florida. Reasonable real estate, lots of willing
workers, plus it's a "Right to Work" state.


AND HURRICANES!!!!
...lew...
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Lew Hartswick wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
BTW, if you get too tired of the snow, and looking for workers, you
should consider Florida. Reasonable real estate, lots of willing
workers, plus it's a "Right to Work" state.


AND HURRICANES!!!!
...lew...



A few years out of the 20+ I've been here. Ohio has plenty of
TORNADOS, though, and those are almost every year.


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"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
...

Huh...better read some FL financials...the state is hurting.

I would be very hesitant to move there.

TMT

All the better! Having a responsibility to community, the idea of pumping
millions into a depressed economy interests me. You might try to understand
that.


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On Mar 19, 10:45*pm, "Tom Gardner"
wrote:
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message

...

Huh...better read some FL financials...the state is hurting.

I would be very hesitant to move there.

TMT

All the better! *Having a responsibility to community, the idea of pumping
millions into a depressed economy interests me. * You might try to understand
that.


Well good for you Tom.

I know of many crack houses that need to be fixed up for their
residents...got that "responsibility to community" cash handy?

TMT
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