"SteveB" wrote in message
...
I bought a 12v. battery, a deep cycle marine, for a little bass boat I
have. The battery is three years old now at least and has not ever been
used.

I need a battery to spin my newly bought welder and figured this one would
be okay to get it going. But how long do you think it will last after
that? Should I just put a charger on it and try it? The battery has
actually spent a winter at below zero temps, but no signs of cracking or
dry cells.


Steve

A true deep-cycle battery is not designed for the heavy initial draw of a
starter motor, but a lot of 'marine' batteries are just warmed over car
batteries. If it has conventional round (automotive style) posts or says
'marine starting' on it, chances are it isn't a true deep-cycle and will
work OK as a starting battery. If the battery does NOT have automotive style
posts, then no, it won't work for very long.
As far as charging goes, most batteries will tolerate a 6 amp charge, but if
you have any doubts, go with 2 amps.

HTH -Carl

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 03:18:33 GMT, "Carl Byrns"
wrote:


"SteveB" wrote in message
...
I bought a 12v. battery, a deep cycle marine, for a little bass boat I
have. The battery is three years old now at least and has not ever been
used.

I need a battery to spin my newly bought welder and figured this one would
be okay to get it going. But how long do you think it will last after
that? Should I just put a charger on it and try it? The battery has
actually spent a winter at below zero temps, but no signs of cracking or
dry cells.


Steve

A true deep-cycle battery is not designed for the heavy initial draw of a
starter motor, but a lot of 'marine' batteries are just warmed over car
batteries. If it has conventional round (automotive style) posts or says
'marine starting' on it, chances are it isn't a true deep-cycle and will
work OK as a starting battery. If the battery does NOT have automotive style
posts, then no, it won't work for very long.
As far as charging goes, most batteries will tolerate a 6 amp charge, but if
you have any doubts, go with 2 amps.

HTH -Carl

Any battery that will run a thruster on a bass boat, or start an
engine, WILL take a 6 amp charge without danger. 2 amp for finishing,
perhaps.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

I bought a 12v. battery, a deep cycle marine, for a little bass boat I have.
The battery is three years old now at least and has not ever been used.

I need a battery to spin my newly bought welder and figured this one would
be okay to get it going. But how long do you think it will last after that?
Should I just put a charger on it and try it? The battery has actually
spent a winter at below zero temps, but no signs of cracking or dry cells.


Steve

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:41:29 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:

I bought a 12v. battery, a deep cycle marine, for a little bass boat I have.
The battery is three years old now at least and has not ever been used.

I need a battery to spin my newly bought welder and figured this one would
be okay to get it going. But how long do you think it will last after that?
Should I just put a charger on it and try it? The battery has actually
spent a winter at below zero temps, but no signs of cracking or dry cells.


Steve

This is a joke, right?

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 22:49:49 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:41:29 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:

I bought a 12v. battery, a deep cycle marine, for a little bass boat I have.
The battery is three years old now at least and has not ever been used.

I need a battery to spin my newly bought welder and figured this one would
be okay to get it going. But how long do you think it will last after that?
Should I just put a charger on it and try it? The battery has actually
spent a winter at below zero temps, but no signs of cracking or dry cells.


Steve

This is a joke, right?

Gunner


Never mind.

Id try to start with it as is.,.and if it wont start, stick your basic
12vt 10amp charger on it for an hour or so. If it starts..it should
charge the battery. Stick a volt meter on the leads and see if its at
least 13 volts when running

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:41:29 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:

I bought a 12v. battery, a deep cycle marine, for a little bass boat I have.
The battery is three years old now at least and has not ever been used.

I need a battery to spin my newly bought welder and figured this one would
be okay to get it going. But how long do you think it will last after that?
Should I just put a charger on it and try it? The battery has actually
spent a winter at below zero temps, but no signs of cracking or dry cells.


Steve

Three years is a long time to leave a battery without attention. See
if it'll take a charge. If it will, it may be OK. If not, it's
probably history. Don't be afraid to jam some current into it at
least for openers. You may need to do that to "get its attention".
After openers, a 10 amp charge rate is not excessive while it's low.

Batteries labelled "deep cycle marine" are often intended to both
start outboard engines and then run electronics and even a smaller
trolling motor for a while. It should work OK. I doubt that the
starter load of your welder exceeds that of even a 90 HP outboard.

The "deep cycle marine" battery in my lil' green boat is at least
five years old. It starts the engine (115) and then runs electronics,
livewell pump, lights, etc -- but not trolling motor. It was workin'
fine last autumn but I will replace it this spring. Five years is a
long life for a boat battery.

clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote in message
...
On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 03:18:33 GMT, "Carl Byrns"

Any battery that will run a thruster on a bass boat, or start an
engine, WILL take a 6 amp charge without danger. 2 amp for finishing,
perhaps.

I respectfully disagree- charging rate is a function of capacity in amp
hours (the rule of thumb is charge at 1/10 capacity for flooded lead-acid
cells). Smaller batteries (like garden tractor or motorcycle) will start an
engine, but a 6 amp rate might be too much.

-Carl

"Carl Byrns" wrote in message
news:dk0Dj.3269$sw3.123@trnddc06...

As far as charging goes, most batteries will tolerate a 6 amp charge, but if
you have any doubts, go with 2 amps.


But even a 2 amp "dumb" charger will eventually overcharge and ruin your
battery if left connected and forgotten. The best way I have found to store any
lead acid battery is by leaving it connected to a special "float" charger. In
any case, the battery should always be stored fully charged.

Vaughn

A marine battery is not well suitable for starting motors, I am
speaking from experience. It may even work sometimes, fooling you into
thinking that you can just use it. until you find that sometimes it
cannot.

I would go with a pickup truck battery.

i

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:47:13 -0500, Ignoramus4762
wrote:

A marine battery is not well suitable for starting motors, I am
speaking from experience. It may even work sometimes, fooling you into
thinking that you can just use it. until you find that sometimes it
cannot.

I would go with a pickup truck battery.

i
Now Ive got a battery question for the group.

My Lincoln Ranger 9 welder doesnt have a battery yet. Ive not had the
time to resolve the charging issue yet, but will shortly.

What size battery is proper for an 18hp engine? I put an Autozone
garden tractor battery on the 4000 watt Onan a couple weeks ago, when
I skid mounted it and set it up for home backup power. It starts the
Onan pretty well, and also the Ranger 9. But Id like to know what is
the proper size.

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Mar 16, 11:52*am, Gunner Asch wrote:

What size battery is proper for an 18hp engine? ...
Gunner

One of the two dozen or so fatal defects in my free 18HP garden
tractor was the old dead battery, a Workaholic SP-18R of 180CA
capacity. I put it on a higher-voltage charger and brought back the
one low cell, then equalized all of them and matched the gravity, and
used it for two more years of hard, cold starting to plow after
snowstorms and pulling logs with an electric winch. I retired it only
when its capacity fell too low to reliably crank the engine after a
long pull with the winch. Luckily I was in a neighbor's back yard when
that happened, not deep in the woods.

The advice I've heard is to use the largest battery that fits if you
need to start dependably, but you can go cheaper if it's possible to
jump start.

Jim Wilkins

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:47:13 -0500, Ignoramus4762
wrote:

A marine battery is not well suitable for starting motors, I am
speaking from experience. It may even work sometimes, fooling you into
thinking that you can just use it. until you find that sometimes it
cannot.

I would go with a pickup truck battery.

i

"Marine" batteries are often dual-purpose. They can certainly start
outboard engines, which typically are larger than the engines on
gennies and welders. They are designed to do exactly that. If your
boat has a Chevy 350 engine, then a truck battery might be a better
choice -- but automotive batteries are not as rugged. The pounding
they get running at speed in rough water will shake them apart inside.
If the battery is rated in amperehours (typically 80 or 105) it is
probably a deep cycle battery intended for running trolling motors
etc. They are not good starting batteries for large engines, but
they can deliver up to 50 amps with no problem.

If it is rated in MCA (marine cranking amps) then it is a dual purpose
quite suitable for starting servce and for moderate deepcycle service
as running lights, electronics, livewell pump, etc while the main
engine is not running -- which for most fishermen is much of the time
except for trolling. Trolling is done in walleye tournaments, but not
in bass tournaments. Bass fishermen who pay hefy entry fees tend to
expect their engines to start so they can make it to weigh-in on time.
A battery that can start a 225 HP outboard a dozen or more times in a
day would have zero problem cranking a welder engine.

Both types typically have a carry handle, and the terminals are
stainless wing nuts on lead posts with stainless studs.

More info:

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknow...ne_battery.htm

http://www.exide.com/faq/faq_marine.html

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 22:49:49 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:41:29 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:

I bought a 12v. battery, a deep cycle marine, for a little bass boat I have.
The battery is three years old now at least and has not ever been used.

I need a battery to spin my newly bought welder and figured this one would
be okay to get it going. But how long do you think it will last after that?
Should I just put a charger on it and try it? The battery has actually
spent a winter at below zero temps, but no signs of cracking or dry cells.


Steve

This is a joke, right?

Gunner

Batteries do fine in subzero temps if they have any charge. A
discharged battery might freeze and crack, but Steve sez no cracks. I
leave my batteries in my boat outside over winter in MN. Winterize
boat with fully charged batteries before Hallowe'en, usually have at
least half-charge left in April. They usually last at least five
years. I replace 'em after five so I don't know how much longer some
of them might have gone.

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 08:52:09 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:47:13 -0500, Ignoramus4762
wrote:

A marine battery is not well suitable for starting motors, I am
speaking from experience. It may even work sometimes, fooling you into
thinking that you can just use it. until you find that sometimes it
cannot.

I would go with a pickup truck battery.

i
Now Ive got a battery question for the group.

My Lincoln Ranger 9 welder doesnt have a battery yet. Ive not had the
time to resolve the charging issue yet, but will shortly.

What size battery is proper for an 18hp engine? I put an Autozone
garden tractor battery on the 4000 watt Onan a couple weeks ago, when
I skid mounted it and set it up for home backup power. It starts the
Onan pretty well, and also the Ranger 9. But Id like to know what is
the proper size.

Gunner

If space permits, use the most common size of automotive battery.
That'll have ample capacity and will be the most battery for the buck
because they sell a bazillion of 'em.

Keep it charged with a trickle charger. Automotive batteries don't do
well if not kept charged. If that is impractical, then I'd go with a
marine dual-purpose battery for about $69. They're sorta deep-cycle,
will tolerate discharge much better.

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:46:13 GMT, "Carl Byrns"
wrote:


clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 03:18:33 GMT, "Carl Byrns"

Any battery that will run a thruster on a bass boat, or start an
engine, WILL take a 6 amp charge without danger. 2 amp for finishing,
perhaps.

I respectfully disagree- charging rate is a function of capacity in amp
hours (the rule of thumb is charge at 1/10 capacity for flooded lead-acid
cells). Smaller batteries (like garden tractor or motorcycle) will start an
engine, but a 6 amp rate might be too much.

-Carl


Gotta define your "might"

The battery will only take 6 (or 10) amps when sufficiently discharged
and will taper off according to the VOLTAGE supplied.
Sustained charge rates should not excede C/8 on most flooded acid
cells - meaning 6 amps is safe for any battery over 48 AH in capacity.
You can bet any thruster battery will be WELL in excess of 48AH, as
will virtually any starter battery.
It is the charging VOLTAGE that is critical (after the initial "bulk
charge")

A charger with no voltage control could conceivably overcharge a small
battery, even if it is only a 2 amp charger

However,

16AH Honda Goldwing 1200 battery (Odessy PC680MJ)is 220 CCA, 680 amps
for 5 seccond pulse, and has cyclic charge voltage spec 14.6 to 15
volts with NO CURRENT LIMIT.

Then again, my Genesis EP batteries (starved electrolyte) are 26 AH
and specify 14.7 to 15 volt cyclic charging rate, with - get this- NO
CURRENT LIMIT. At up to 15 volts it is IMPOSSIBLE to overcharge this
battery. Float charge voltage is 13.5 to 13.8 volts - and again NO
CURRENT LIMIT.

No difference in spec from 13ah to over 200ah on these batteries.
Funny, eh???

95% charge efficiency too - better than most.

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:04:38 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 22:49:49 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:41:29 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:

I bought a 12v. battery, a deep cycle marine, for a little bass boat I have.
The battery is three years old now at least and has not ever been used.

I need a battery to spin my newly bought welder and figured this one would
be okay to get it going. But how long do you think it will last after that?
Should I just put a charger on it and try it? The battery has actually
spent a winter at below zero temps, but no signs of cracking or dry cells.


Steve

This is a joke, right?

Gunner

Batteries do fine in subzero temps if they have any charge. A
discharged battery might freeze and crack, but Steve sez no cracks. I
leave my batteries in my boat outside over winter in MN. Winterize
boat with fully charged batteries before Hallowe'en, usually have at
least half-charge left in April. They usually last at least five
years. I replace 'em after five so I don't know how much longer some
of them might have gone.


Pretty much what I was thinking, given that a host of people live in
places where it freezes in the wintertime, with boats etc etc

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 08:52:09 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:47:13 -0500, Ignoramus4762
wrote:

A marine battery is not well suitable for starting motors, I am
speaking from experience. It may even work sometimes, fooling you into
thinking that you can just use it. until you find that sometimes it
cannot.

I would go with a pickup truck battery.

i
Now Ive got a battery question for the group.

My Lincoln Ranger 9 welder doesnt have a battery yet. Ive not had the
time to resolve the charging issue yet, but will shortly.

What size battery is proper for an 18hp engine? I put an Autozone
garden tractor battery on the 4000 watt Onan a couple weeks ago, when
I skid mounted it and set it up for home backup power. It starts the
Onan pretty well, and also the Ranger 9. But Id like to know what is
the proper size.

Gunner


What current does the starter draw when the engine is cold?
You want to excede that cranking current by about 10% minimum in CCA
rating if you will be operating in cold conditions, or excede the CA
rating by about 15% for warm only conditions. (cca is Cold Cranking
Amps - 30 seconds at 0 C degrees)(ca is cranking amps (also known as
Marine Cranking Amps) - rated at 0 F, and HCA is Hot Cranking Amps,
rated at 80 F) AH rating is not really usefull for starting
batteries. Reserve Capacity rating is also good to know - how many
minutes it will support a 25 amp load before dropping below 10.5 volts
(under load).

In automotive use it is general practice to spec a battery with
roughly the same, or slightly greater CCA rating as the displacement
in cubic inches. Up here where it gets cold, that seems to work pretty
good.

"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 11:53:51 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:47:13 -0500, Ignoramus4762
wrote:

A marine battery is not well suitable for starting motors, I am
speaking from experience. It may even work sometimes, fooling you into
thinking that you can just use it. until you find that sometimes it
cannot.

I would go with a pickup truck battery.

i

"Marine" batteries are often dual-purpose. They can certainly start
outboard engines, which typically are larger than the engines on
gennies and welders. They are designed to do exactly that. If your
boat has a Chevy 350 engine, then a truck battery might be a better
choice -- but automotive batteries are not as rugged. The pounding
they get running at speed in rough water will shake them apart inside.
If the battery is rated in amperehours (typically 80 or 105) it is
probably a deep cycle battery intended for running trolling motors
etc. They are not good starting batteries for large engines, but
they can deliver up to 50 amps with no problem.

If it is rated in MCA (marine cranking amps) then it is a dual purpose
quite suitable for starting servce and for moderate deepcycle service
as running lights, electronics, livewell pump, etc while the main
engine is not running -- which for most fishermen is much of the time
except for trolling. Trolling is done in walleye tournaments, but not
in bass tournaments. Bass fishermen who pay hefy entry fees tend to
expect their engines to start so they can make it to weigh-in on time.
A battery that can start a 225 HP outboard a dozen or more times in a
day would have zero problem cranking a welder engine.

Both types typically have a carry handle, and the terminals are
stainless wing nuts on lead posts with stainless studs.

More info:

http://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknow...ne_battery.htm

http://www.exide.com/faq/faq_marine.html

Excellent explanation.

For high vibration, use a spiral cell battery like the Odessy Blue
Top.
Yellow is deep cycle, red is SLA, and Blue is Marine (higher vibration
and combination of high current and deep cycle)

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote in message
...
On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:46:13 GMT, "Carl Byrns"
wrote:

Then again, my Genesis EP batteries (starved electrolyte) are 26 AH
and specify 14.7 to 15 volt cyclic charging rate, with - get this- NO
CURRENT LIMIT. At up to 15 volts it is IMPOSSIBLE to overcharge this
battery. Float charge voltage is 13.5 to 13.8 volts - and again NO
CURRENT LIMIT.

Whatcha using them for?
I looked at AGM batteries for my camping trailer but from a
dollar/watt/frequency-of-use point they didn't make any sense for that
application.

-Carl

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 08:52:09 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:
On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:47:13 -0500, Ignoramus4762
wrote:

A marine battery is not well suitable for starting motors, I am
speaking from experience. It may even work sometimes, fooling you into
thinking that you can just use it. until you find that sometimes it
cannot.

I would go with a pickup truck battery.

Many marine batteries are dual Starting/Charging - they have the
deep cycle chemistry, but heavy enough plates and interconnects to
start small engines.

The thing that worries me about the OP's post is the "I bought it
and it's sat unused for three years" part. If you don't top off the
charge at least every six months, you can damage the battery just by
NOT using it. They'll self-discharge and then sulfate up, and after
three years it's almost a given.

Put that old "new" battery on a proper charger and give it a good
overnight soak, then give it a try turning over the generator. But I
don't hold a whole lot of hope for it's long term survival.

Now Ive got a battery question for the group.

My Lincoln Ranger 9 welder doesnt have a battery yet. Ive not had the
time to resolve the charging issue yet, but will shortly.

What size battery is proper for an 18hp engine? I put an Autozone
garden tractor battery on the 4000 watt Onan a couple weeks ago, when
I skid mounted it and set it up for home backup power. It starts the
Onan pretty well, and also the Ranger 9. But Id like to know what is
the proper size.

They don't take a lotta amps to crank over, so it's more in the form
factor of what fits in the tray, and the price. If you have the room
to mount it buy the cheapest Group 27 Chebby Battery you can find, too
big (within reason) won't hurt anything - IOW if you can lift it with
one hand, it'll be fine.

(And Gunner: Considering your history with Epic Level "Duck and
Cover!" Oopsies [spare tire bracket] ;-) if you mount the battery
outboard go get a marine battery box for it, so someone can't drop a
chunk of scrap and short across the battery terminals. Trust me,
that's not the welding power output there...)

There's the 2U "garden tractor battery" if you have tray size
restrictions, but they tend to be more expensive simply because they
don't sell in large volumes. Look in the smaller 'car' batteries
because they can sell for far less. And you'll be able to find
replacements far easier in the future.

There are several choices in small batteries used in small Hondas
and Hyundai's - the Group 51 (or 51R if you need the terminals
reversed) is a cheap drop-in replacement for the "Unobtanium"
Expensive Group 57 used in my Corvair - and also found in many
forklifts and other power gear that only has room for that special
long skinny and tall battery.

Same skinny, same tall, same top-posts, but not as long - and far
more CCA than the original battery thanks to improved materials and
thinner plastic cases leaving more room for plates and acid.

-- Bruce --

"Vaughn Simon" wrote in message
...

"Carl Byrns" wrote in message
news:dk0Dj.3269$sw3.123@trnddc06...

As far as charging goes, most batteries will tolerate a 6 amp charge, but
if you have any doubts, go with 2 amps.


But even a 2 amp "dumb" charger will eventually overcharge and ruin your
battery if left connected and forgotten. The best way I have found to
store any lead acid battery is by leaving it connected to a special
"float" charger. In any case, the battery should always be stored fully
charged.

Vaughn

And most 'float' chargers are nothing more than a 13.6 volt 1 amp wall
wart with no charging control. They will kill a battery eventually. DAMHIKT.
I use a 'smart charger' that varies the charging current as needed and shuts
off when the battery is fully charged. According to the guys at a local
industrial battery supply house, unused batteries should be charged every 90
days. One of my deep-cycle batteries is 8 years old and works just fine.

-Carl

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 19:42:30 GMT, "Carl Byrns"
wrote:


clare at snyder dot ontario dot canada wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:46:13 GMT, "Carl Byrns"
wrote:

Then again, my Genesis EP batteries (starved electrolyte) are 26 AH
and specify 14.7 to 15 volt cyclic charging rate, with - get this- NO
CURRENT LIMIT. At up to 15 volts it is IMPOSSIBLE to overcharge this
battery. Float charge voltage is 13.5 to 13.8 volts - and again NO
CURRENT LIMIT.

Whatcha using them for?
I looked at AGM batteries for my camping trailer but from a
dollar/watt/frequency-of-use point they didn't make any sense for that
application.

-Carl

Will likely power an electric bike this summer. Currently just "in
reserve"

--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"Carl Byrns" wrote in message
news:1VeDj.6071$%Y2.4022@trnddc08...


And most 'float' chargers are nothing more than a 13.6 volt 1 amp wall wart
with no charging control.

Not so. I also once thought that a "trickle" charger and a "float" charger
were interchangeable, and I ruined far too many batteries proving it ain't so.

A real float charger is not cheap. I use the ones from these folks.
http://www.batterytender.com/

Vaughn

"Vaughn Simon" wrote

As far as charging goes, most batteries will tolerate a 6 amp charge, but
if you have any doubts, go with 2 amps.


But even a 2 amp "dumb" charger will eventually overcharge and ruin your
battery if left connected and forgotten. The best way I have found to
store any lead acid battery is by leaving it connected to a special
"float" charger. In any case, the battery should always be stored fully
charged.

Vaughn


My charger is a Dayton. A pretty decent charger I think. It has settings
for starting, 10, 6, and 2 amps. But there's a needle to show how many amps
it is actually charging at. You can put it on ten, and the needle might
point to only six. Then as it charges up, the needle drops to zero. Looks
to me like it senses the charge, and tapers off.

Steve

"Ignoramus4762" wrote in message
...
A marine battery is not well suitable for starting motors, I am
speaking from experience. It may even work sometimes, fooling you into
thinking that you can just use it. until you find that sometimes it
cannot.

I would go with a pickup truck battery.

i

This battery is FAR more important in powering my bass buggy than just
spinning an old welder during testing. I'll buy another battery for the
welder. And if this one is toast, I'll buy another for the bass buggy and
this time try to go fishing within three years. I just need to use it for a
short time to get the welder running. I mainly was asking what the thoughts
were as to how much life it had left after sitting for so long, but never
being used.

Of course, I COULD use the battery to get to the lake, then take it out and
use it to fish, then put it back in ............ you know you're a redneck
if .............

Steve ;-)

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 22:49:49 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:41:29 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:

I bought a 12v. battery, a deep cycle marine, for a little bass boat I
have.
The battery is three years old now at least and has not ever been used.

I need a battery to spin my newly bought welder and figured this one
would
be okay to get it going. But how long do you think it will last after
that?
Should I just put a charger on it and try it? The battery has actually
spent a winter at below zero temps, but no signs of cracking or dry
cells.


Steve

This is a joke, right?

Gunner

Huh?

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:04:38 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

Batteries do fine in subzero temps if they have any charge. A
discharged battery might freeze and crack, but Steve sez no cracks. I
leave my batteries in my boat outside over winter in MN. Winterize
boat with fully charged batteries before Hallowe'en, usually have at
least half-charge left in April. They usually last at least five
years. I replace 'em after five so I don't know how much longer some
of them might have gone.

Pretty much what I was thinking, given that a host of people live in
places where it freezes in the wintertime, with boats etc etc


We used a battery blanket, lower radiator heater and dipstick heater
to be able to start engines at Ft. Greely. Most radiators had 85% to
95% blocked with scrap cardboard, so he engine could finally warm up.
Manual transmissions and rear ends were drained, and refilled with 10W
motor oil. Tires were the worst, because nylon cord tires were still in
use, and they would freeze with a flat spot that took several miles of
driving to thaw out. The area was known as the land of the square tire.

The -40F (Or colder) temperatures could last for months at a time.
Forget to plug in the heaters and you might need a new battery, radiator
and engine. Very few other places ot that cold, except Antarctica. Not
something you need to worry about in the desert.


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They also make a battery heating pad for the battery to sit on. I used a
battery blanket with a heating element and a block heater down in the
Wisconsin Banana Belt (just north of Illinois).

I thought that gasoline fueled block heaters were common in Alaska.

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
We used a battery blanket, lower radiator heater and dipstick heater
to be able to start engines at Ft. Greely.

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 17:18:12 -0600, Louis Ohland
wrote:

They also make a battery heating pad for the battery to sit on. I used a
battery blanket with a heating element and a block heater down in the
Wisconsin Banana Belt (just north of Illinois).

I thought that gasoline fueled block heaters were common in Alaska.

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
We used a battery blanket, lower radiator heater and dipstick heater
to be able to start engines at Ft. Greely.

Piggybacks are common now for starting more remote stuff (equipment
too far from the grid to plug in, that only needs to be run
occaisionally). You drive in with your truck, snow-cat, or dozer and
connect hoses with quick-connects like hydraulic hoses between engines
and warm the cold one up with the warm one.

On my brother's old highway tractor we had a propane RV water heater
and a circulating pump that would bring the engine up to operating
temp in less than an hour. Was a good bunk heater too - he could shut
the engine down when he stopped for the night and keep the bunk warm
as well as being assured the engine would restart.
We put it in when he lived up on the farm and often had to leave the
truck at the end of the lane when he was home for a few days in the
winter. Fire up the "boiler" an hour before it was time to pull out,
and there was no problem starting, and the cab was defrosted to boot.

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On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 19:08:30 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:04:38 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

Batteries do fine in subzero temps if they have any charge. A
discharged battery might freeze and crack, but Steve sez no cracks. I
leave my batteries in my boat outside over winter in MN. Winterize
boat with fully charged batteries before Hallowe'en, usually have at
least half-charge left in April. They usually last at least five
years. I replace 'em after five so I don't know how much longer some
of them might have gone.

Pretty much what I was thinking, given that a host of people live in
places where it freezes in the wintertime, with boats etc etc


We used a battery blanket, lower radiator heater and dipstick heater
to be able to start engines at Ft. Greely. Most radiators had 85% to
95% blocked with scrap cardboard, so he engine could finally warm up.
Manual transmissions and rear ends were drained, and refilled with 10W
motor oil. Tires were the worst, because nylon cord tires were still in
use, and they would freeze with a flat spot that took several miles of
driving to thaw out. The area was known as the land of the square tire.

The -40F (Or colder) temperatures could last for months at a time.
Forget to plug in the heaters and you might need a new battery, radiator
and engine. Very few other places ot that cold, except Antarctica. Not
something you need to worry about in the desert.


I grew up on Lake Superior, in the Upper Penninsula of northern
Michigan.

I worked for a number of winters on the North Slope.

Im rather familiar with the subject of cold......

Which is why I now live in California
G

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 15:07:21 -0400, clare at snyder dot ontario dot
canada wrote:

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 08:52:09 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 09:47:13 -0500, Ignoramus4762
wrote:

A marine battery is not well suitable for starting motors, I am
speaking from experience. It may even work sometimes, fooling you into
thinking that you can just use it. until you find that sometimes it
cannot.

I would go with a pickup truck battery.

i
Now Ive got a battery question for the group.

My Lincoln Ranger 9 welder doesnt have a battery yet. Ive not had the
time to resolve the charging issue yet, but will shortly.

What size battery is proper for an 18hp engine? I put an Autozone
garden tractor battery on the 4000 watt Onan a couple weeks ago, when
I skid mounted it and set it up for home backup power. It starts the
Onan pretty well, and also the Ranger 9. But Id like to know what is
the proper size.

Gunner


What current does the starter draw when the engine is cold?


If I knew that answer..Id not have posted the question.

G

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 12:47:44 -0700, Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:


What size battery is proper for an 18hp engine? I put an Autozone
garden tractor battery on the 4000 watt Onan a couple weeks ago, when
I skid mounted it and set it up for home backup power. It starts the
Onan pretty well, and also the Ranger 9. But Id like to know what is
the proper size.

They don't take a lotta amps to crank over, so it's more in the form
factor of what fits in the tray, and the price. If you have the room
to mount it buy the cheapest Group 27 Chebby Battery you can find, too
big (within reason) won't hurt anything - IOW if you can lift it with
one hand, it'll be fine.

(And Gunner: Considering your history with Epic Level "Duck and
Cover!" Oopsies [spare tire bracket] ;-) if you mount the battery
outboard go get a marine battery box for it, so someone can't drop a
chunk of scrap and short across the battery terminals. Trust me,
that's not the welding power output there...)


One Ooopsi. Not plural. Fortunately

And yes..battery boxes are on my list

the only time Ive shorted a battery in any major way, was when Gloria
Maxwell decided to Cowboy Up! in the passenger side rear seat of a VW
bug. About the third really good bounce she made on the old joystick
and the bottom of the seat shorted out across the battery terms. Had
to peel her off during her Happy Moment(s) when I smelled smoke and my
ass started burning.

Ripped out the backseat and nearly caused a brush fire

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

On Sun, 16 Mar 2008 13:37:55 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:



On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 22:49:49 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 15 Mar 2008 20:41:29 -0800, "SteveB"
wrote:

I bought a 12v. battery, a deep cycle marine, for a little bass boat I
have.
The battery is three years old now at least and has not ever been used.

I need a battery to spin my newly bought welder and figured this one
would
be okay to get it going. But how long do you think it will last after
that?
Should I just put a charger on it and try it? The battery has actually
spent a winter at below zero temps, but no signs of cracking or dry
cells.


Steve

This is a joke, right?

Gunner

Huh?

Read it wrong. Brain fart on my part. Posted a correction right
after.

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Louis Ohland wrote:

They also make a battery heating pad for the battery to sit on. I used a
battery blanket with a heating element and a block heater down in the
Wisconsin Banana Belt (just north of Illinois).

I thought that gasoline fueled block heaters were common in Alaska.

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
We used a battery blanket, lower radiator heater and dipstick heater
to be able to start engines at Ft. Greely.


Not allowed on the base. There were outlets at every parking space,
each on it's own 20 amp circuit.


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Gunner Asch wrote:

I grew up on Lake Superior, in the Upper Penninsula of northern
Michigan.

I worked for a number of winters on the North Slope.

Im rather familiar with the subject of cold......

Which is why I now live in California
G


I may tell you bad jokes and kid you, but I've never thought you to
be stupid.

BTW, do you use any AT (Mini tower) power supplies in the computers
on tools? I have a couple dozen extra, if you need any. I even have a
few good PC/XT supplies.


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On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 02:46:22 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

I grew up on Lake Superior, in the Upper Penninsula of northern
Michigan.

I worked for a number of winters on the North Slope.

Im rather familiar with the subject of cold......

Which is why I now live in California
G


I may tell you bad jokes and kid you, but I've never thought you to
be stupid.

Pennywise G

BTW, do you use any AT (Mini tower) power supplies in the computers
on tools? I have a couple dozen extra, if you need any. I even have a
few good PC/XT supplies.


I could sure use some AT 200+ power supplies. Standard XT sized 200 or
more watts. Need two floppy disk connectors if possible on the
harness.

How much each, for say...5? Shipped to 93268

Still needing a function generator if you run across one. Been buying
bench multimeters on Ebay, got a full set now.

Could use a decent variable dc powersupply too. Max volts..hmmm...24
at 2-5 amps. Lots of solenoids and whatnot need testing, plc units
etc.

Gunner



"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.

Think of it as having your older brother knock the **** out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Mon, 17 Mar 2008 02:46:22 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

I grew up on Lake Superior, in the Upper Penninsula of northern
Michigan.

I worked for a number of winters on the North Slope.

Im rather familiar with the subject of cold......

Which is why I now live in California
G


I may tell you bad jokes and kid you, but I've never thought you to
be stupid.

Pennywise G

BTW, do you use any AT (Mini tower) power supplies in the computers
on tools? I have a couple dozen extra, if you need any. I even have a
few good PC/XT supplies.

I could sure use some AT 200+ power supplies. Standard XT sized 200 or
more watts. Need two floppy disk connectors if possible on the
harness.


Need ant 5.25" disk drives? I have about 100 in storage. I'd rather
see someone use them, than strip them for the stepper motors and
aluminum.



How much each, for say...5? Shipped to 93268


No problem. How many?


Still needing a function generator if you run across one. Been buying
bench multimeters on Ebay, got a full set now.


I have a Heathkit that needs repaired, but I can't get to it at the
moment.



Could use a decent variable dc powersupply too. Max volts..hmmm...24
at 2-5 amps. Lots of solenoids and whatnot need testing, plc units
etc.


I don't think I can help with the power supply right now, but I'll
keep my eyes open. I do have some linear dual power supplies that were
used in industrial equipment + & - 12 volt outputs, and some have +5 as
well.


I have a couple monochrome TTL monitors from Brother word processors,
and about a dozen Motorola and Ball uncased monitors from computer
terminals.

You mentioned needing some motherboards, as well. I will be sorting
out the old stuff soon. What did you need?

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Michael A. Terrell wrote:


Need ant 5.25" disk drives? I have about 100 in storage. I'd rather
see someone use them, than strip them for the stepper motors and
aluminum.




With the price of aluminum these days, you might want to reconsider...

"SteveB" wrote in message
...

"Vaughn Simon" wrote

As far as charging goes, most batteries will tolerate a 6 amp charge,
but if you have any doubts, go with 2 amps.


But even a 2 amp "dumb" charger will eventually overcharge and ruin
your battery if left connected and forgotten. The best way I have found
to store any lead acid battery is by leaving it connected to a special
"float" charger. In any case, the battery should always be stored fully
charged.

Vaughn


My charger is a Dayton. A pretty decent charger I think. It has settings
for starting, 10, 6, and 2 amps. But there's a needle to show how many
amps it is actually charging at. You can put it on ten, and the needle
might point to only six. Then as it charges up, the needle drops to zero.
Looks to me like it senses the charge, and tapers off.

Steve

Next time you charge a battery, hook up a voltmeter and watch the volts go
up as the amps go down. High voltages can damage the battery. A smart
charger controls both the charging current and voltage.

-Carl

"Vaughn Simon" wrote in message
...



A real float charger is not cheap. I use the ones from these folks.
http://www.batterytender.com/

Vaughn

Yeah, those are nice units. I've seen them on equipment that has to have
instant battery availability- like an ambulance.

-Carl