Hi!

It's actually a 1-ton piece of marble, but this group is active,
and mills and lathes can easily exceed that weight; so I should get
some solid advice here.

I've outlined several ideas in mind, in order of which I might
try first. Go ahead and say what you'd do without reading the below,
if you don't have time; if you do, please read and comment/critique
before I injure myself!



A friend has a diesel truck that may or may not hold 3000# in the
bed, and definitely can tow a trailer; the ones uhaul rents for $25/
day can take 1650# (maybe home depot has some heavier duty ones?)
I am to take as much marble back from the quarry in one trip as I
can; it's a long ways away, and the marble they are giving me for
free, it is scrap to them and they know I am a college student.

Plan A
is to borrow the truck, rent the trailer, and on the way out purchase
a 2nd-hand forklift I have lined up (craigslist ad). It can lift
3000#, weights nearly 1000 itself, has 4 3"diameter wheels.
Arrive at the quarry, lay down plywood because it'll be muddy and
snowy there, unload the lift;
use a longer and wider version of a crowbar to pry two sides of the
1500# hunk of marble up and onto 2x4s,
slip the forklift under the raised block, turn it and back along the
plywood to the truck. Hopefully, be able to manually push the block
deeper into the truck? Maybe with rollers, if we can get them under?
But we can't stand up in the bed, there's a cap over it. My friend
thinks that there isn't a spot to bolt a come-along either, there's a
fuel tank at the front of the bed. Then load up a few rather smaller
(150-500#) blocks, load some into the trailer, and tip the forklift
into the trailer too.

Plan B
don't buy the forklift; instead pay the quarry to load up the truck so
that we can take another 1000# back. Awkwardly use scissor platform
back at the workshop, saving money but maybe increasing headache-- the
scissor lift doesn't go to the full height of the truck bed, and we'd
have to slide the stone more. Campus facilities has forklifts, real
motorized ones, across the street-- but it's a crapshoot whether
they'll help a student for free or charge the $75 base rate for a
job. Even after I get the blocks back, I'll need to shuffle them
around workbenches as I work on one or another (carving).

Plan C
Count on being able to remove the bed's cap, or, rent a home depot
truck for $200 for the necessary hours; and build myself a small
gantry crane?
Borrowing the hoist from a different friend, purchasing the I-beams
and pneumatic tires, and welding something up. This might work better
on the muddy, gravely, non-level quarry ground?
I've never moved so much weight, so I'm scared that maybe 3000#, on
plywood on loose gravel on open, non-level mud at the quarry will
prove impossible to push or control with two guys. It's not a paved
and polished warehouse floor. This is why I'm considering building a
gantry crane

Plan D
Some kind of ramp, winch, and roller system (renting a HD truck to
take the winch)? How to support the ramp?



thanks!!
-Bernard

Bernard, I think your best bet would be to pay the quarry to load the large
stone onto the truck and trailer for you. (Safer, and easier,by far). Remove
the truck cap, and take a couple of heavy wood pallets with you. (free, or
very cheap at stores, factories). Cut a sheet of 1/2" OSB sheathing or
plywood in half to nail onto the pallets, to keep stone from hanging into
the fork area of the pallets. Get there, unhook trailer, roll smaller stones
onto pallets as tightly as possible (try to get some stretch wrap from
campus shipping). Have the quarry load these into truck bed for a fee,
tickets to a campus event, beer or whatever. Play up the poor, creative
student angle. Take a campus hottie or two with you, keep her in sight. More
powerful than beer or money.
Rehook trailer and get the quarry to load the large stone for you, centered
ever so slightly forward of the trailer axle centerline(s), so the trailer
is not tail-heavy. (causes weaving vehicle). Strap load down with ratchet
strapping or chains and binders. Take pictures of hotties with quarry
workers, posed in front of loaded stone. (They will forget all about money)
Drive home carefully and at a lower speed than normal. Get the campus
forklift to unload everything for you, and consider drawing attention to the
event via professors, the school newspaper, etc., to enhance the possibility
of getting the forklift service and other needed help for free.
Now that your stone is on pallets, further movement is much simpler. A
pallet jack may possibly be borrowed from campus shipping/receiving to move
the stones around inside the work area. With this system, you face lesser
physical danger in meeting your goal. My motto is "Work Smarter, not
Harder".
The above methods are known as "Social Engineering" and are as important in
life, or more so, than physical skills. Look at the pretty lady with a flat
tire. SOMEONE will change that tire for her!

Just my take.
RJ

"Bernard Arnest" wrote in message
...
Hi!

It's actually a 1-ton piece of marble, but this group is active,
and mills and lathes can easily exceed that weight; so I should get
some solid advice here.

I've outlined several ideas in mind, in order of which I might
try first. Go ahead and say what you'd do without reading the below,
if you don't have time; if you do, please read and comment/critique
before I injure myself!



A friend has a diesel truck that may or may not hold 3000# in the
bed, and definitely can tow a trailer; the ones uhaul rents for $25/
day can take 1650# (maybe home depot has some heavier duty ones?)
I am to take as much marble back from the quarry in one trip as I
can; it's a long ways away, and the marble they are giving me for
free, it is scrap to them and they know I am a college student.

Plan A
is to borrow the truck, rent the trailer, and on the way out purchase
a 2nd-hand forklift I have lined up (craigslist ad). It can lift
3000#, weights nearly 1000 itself, has 4 3"diameter wheels.
Arrive at the quarry, lay down plywood because it'll be muddy and
snowy there, unload the lift;
use a longer and wider version of a crowbar to pry two sides of the
1500# hunk of marble up and onto 2x4s,
slip the forklift under the raised block, turn it and back along the
plywood to the truck. Hopefully, be able to manually push the block
deeper into the truck? Maybe with rollers, if we can get them under?
But we can't stand up in the bed, there's a cap over it. My friend
thinks that there isn't a spot to bolt a come-along either, there's a
fuel tank at the front of the bed. Then load up a few rather smaller
(150-500#) blocks, load some into the trailer, and tip the forklift
into the trailer too.

Plan B
don't buy the forklift; instead pay the quarry to load up the truck so
that we can take another 1000# back. Awkwardly use scissor platform
back at the workshop, saving money but maybe increasing headache-- the
scissor lift doesn't go to the full height of the truck bed, and we'd
have to slide the stone more. Campus facilities has forklifts, real
motorized ones, across the street-- but it's a crapshoot whether
they'll help a student for free or charge the $75 base rate for a
job. Even after I get the blocks back, I'll need to shuffle them
around workbenches as I work on one or another (carving).

Plan C
Count on being able to remove the bed's cap, or, rent a home depot
truck for $200 for the necessary hours; and build myself a small
gantry crane?
Borrowing the hoist from a different friend, purchasing the I-beams
and pneumatic tires, and welding something up. This might work better
on the muddy, gravely, non-level quarry ground?
I've never moved so much weight, so I'm scared that maybe 3000#, on
plywood on loose gravel on open, non-level mud at the quarry will
prove impossible to push or control with two guys. It's not a paved
and polished warehouse floor. This is why I'm considering building a
gantry crane

Plan D
Some kind of ramp, winch, and roller system (renting a HD truck to
take the winch)? How to support the ramp?



thanks!!
-Bernard

Pay the quarry to load the stone. Pay the guys on campus to unload it.
That way it's their responsibility, not yours. It will be easier, safer
and probably cheaper. You'll be amazed at how much money you'll spend
trying to do something like this if you don't already have the equipment.

Your forklift which can lift 3000 lbs and weighs under 1000 lbs sounds
like a stacker truck. A real forklift which can lift 3000 lbs will
probably weigh at least 3000 lbs. A stacker truck will be useless on a
rough or muddy surface.

How did you get on moving that lathe across the MIT campus?

Best wishes,

Chris

Hi, Bernard.
I can see dozens, if not hundreds of regulars on this group wringing
their hands over the possibilities of you and your friends ending up in
wheel chairs or worse over this one. Many of us are having visions of
our first such attempt watching as some little unforseen thing goes
wrong; at least spoiling the day, likley damaging the thing we got the
"deal" on, or, worse than that causing permanent personal injury.

I like "backlash"es recommendations.

Please do not try to move this stuff in mud even with plywood. The
wheels on your "forklift" (is it a pallet truck) are 'way too small.
The plywood will be pushed by the wheels wherever there is a joint
and so the load will drop down below the level of the next sheet. Think
about the poor mechanical advantage of trying to get that wheel back up
onto the plywood. I know that you wouldn't use any foul language at
this point, but I know that I have been sorely tempted.

Here's a slightly different take:
Look up "riggers" in the phone book. Try to work out a deal where
they do the heavy work on your end in trade for a sculpture that you do
for them. Everybody wins. They get something of value; you get more
practice at your art.

Also, I think I saw a disconnect between trailer capacity and stone
size. Get more trailer than you need, not less. Most general dyi
rental companies have 2 axle trailers for rent. They generally can hold
about 5000 pounds net. That way you could bring even more stuff home.
Make sure the trailer has (at least surge) brakes and DO spend the
extra rental money for tie downs. It your buddy doesn't have experience
driving the truck with a heavily loaded trailer behind, implore him or
her to drive carefully and drive way, way out in front! It's easy to
be going along having a good conversation, and having to do a panic stop
from inattention to the road. Without the loaded trailer, no problem,
but------.

Once a load that heavy gets out of control, there's no going back.
Don't ask me how I know this.

Think about medical costs and liabilities. After all, we do live in
litigious America. A healthy friend, even slightly damaged, becomes a
courtroom nightmare when his parents are presented with the medical bill.

Pete Stanaitis
--------------

Bernard Arnest wrote:
Hi!

It's actually a 1-ton piece of marble, but this group is active,
and mills and lathes can easily exceed that weight; so I should get
some solid advice here.

I've outlined several ideas in mind, in order of which I might
try first. Go ahead and say what you'd do without reading the below,
if you don't have time; if you do, please read and comment/critique
before I injure myself!



A friend has a diesel truck that may or may not hold 3000# in the
bed, and definitely can tow a trailer; the ones uhaul rents for $25/
day can take 1650# (maybe home depot has some heavier duty ones?)
I am to take as much marble back from the quarry in one trip as I
can; it's a long ways away, and the marble they are giving me for
free, it is scrap to them and they know I am a college student.

Plan A
is to borrow the truck, rent the trailer, and on the way out purchase
a 2nd-hand forklift I have lined up (craigslist ad). It can lift
3000#, weights nearly 1000 itself, has 4 3"diameter wheels.
Arrive at the quarry, lay down plywood because it'll be muddy and
snowy there, unload the lift;
use a longer and wider version of a crowbar to pry two sides of the
1500# hunk of marble up and onto 2x4s,
slip the forklift under the raised block, turn it and back along the
plywood to the truck. Hopefully, be able to manually push the block
deeper into the truck? Maybe with rollers, if we can get them under?
But we can't stand up in the bed, there's a cap over it. My friend
thinks that there isn't a spot to bolt a come-along either, there's a
fuel tank at the front of the bed. Then load up a few rather smaller
(150-500#) blocks, load some into the trailer, and tip the forklift
into the trailer too.

Plan B
don't buy the forklift; instead pay the quarry to load up the truck so
that we can take another 1000# back. Awkwardly use scissor platform
back at the workshop, saving money but maybe increasing headache-- the
scissor lift doesn't go to the full height of the truck bed, and we'd
have to slide the stone more. Campus facilities has forklifts, real
motorized ones, across the street-- but it's a crapshoot whether
they'll help a student for free or charge the $75 base rate for a
job. Even after I get the blocks back, I'll need to shuffle them
around workbenches as I work on one or another (carving).

Plan C
Count on being able to remove the bed's cap, or, rent a home depot
truck for $200 for the necessary hours; and build myself a small
gantry crane?
Borrowing the hoist from a different friend, purchasing the I-beams
and pneumatic tires, and welding something up. This might work better
on the muddy, gravely, non-level quarry ground?
I've never moved so much weight, so I'm scared that maybe 3000#, on
plywood on loose gravel on open, non-level mud at the quarry will
prove impossible to push or control with two guys. It's not a paved
and polished warehouse floor. This is why I'm considering building a
gantry crane

Plan D
Some kind of ramp, winch, and roller system (renting a HD truck to
take the winch)? How to support the ramp?



thanks!!
-Bernard






Go to a local equipment rental company and rent a dump truck and have
the quarry load it for you. Pay the $75 fee for campus facilities. I
think you'll come out cheaper in the long run, especially when you add
in the cost to repair the damage to the friends truck and the hospital
bills for the hernias and other injuries.

Jim

Thanks--
Will call the quarry this morning about their forklift and the terrain
and weather conditions, walk over to Campus Facilities and inquire
about unloading with them, and then call up some rental places about a
bigger truck (can I get better rates than the flat $200 that home
depot wants, for a 3000# pickup?)

may come back with more questions after the above phone calls, and
will also let you know how it goes after Tuesday!
-Bernard

roll smaller stones
onto pallets as tightly as possible (try to get some stretch wrap from
campus shipping).

Around here, the guys selling palletrized stone use chickenwire as a
wrap. A roll of chickenwire is cheap...
--Glenn Lyford

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 03:28:52 -0700 (PDT), with neither quill nor
qualm, " quickly quoth:

roll smaller stones
onto pallets as tightly as possible (try to get some stretch wrap from
campus shipping).

Around here, the guys selling palletrized stone use chickenwire as a
wrap. A roll of chickenwire is cheap...
--Glenn Lyford

I'm doing several pallets full of flagstone for a client and they come
wrapped in regular field fencing wire. It's 20ga wire in 6x6" squares
down to 2x6" rectangular openings at the bottom. Top and bottom have
16ga wire runs. $90 for a 367' roll of 4' tall fencing.

--
The best and safest thing is to keep a balance in your life,
acknowledge the great powers around us and in us. If you can
do that, and live that way, you are really a wise man.
-- Euripides

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 01:32:46 -0800, Bernard Arnest wrote:
[re 1-ton piece of marble]
A friend has a diesel truck that may or may not hold 3000# in the
bed, and definitely can tow a trailer; the ones uhaul rents for $25/ day
can take 1650# (maybe home depot has some heavier duty ones?)
....
Apparently you are looking at the 5x9 ramp trailer,
http://www.uhaul.com/guide/index.asp...pentrailer-5x9
but for about $5 more you can go to 1915 pounds in a 6x12,
http://www.uhaul.com/guide/index.asp...entrailer-6x12
and UHaul also has flat vehicle trailers with 4000 pound capacity
that might be ok if you can find a way to fasten the rocks down.

I've seen some 5x9 ramp trailers loaded at least a thousand pounds
over the weight that UHaul recommends; they towed just fine, but of
course you shouldn't do that if going any distance.

[snip Plans A-D]

that's a good idea....

turns out the quarry will not help me with a forklift, not even for a
price.
How about getting a car trailer, which should tilt to the ground; a
come-along, a couple crowbars, a bunch of cut-up PVC pipes, and
rolling it up onto the trailer?? Never need to lift it off the
ground.




On Mar 10, 11:52 am, James Waldby wrote:
On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 01:32:46 -0800, Bernard Arnest wrote:

[re 1-ton piece of marble] A friend has a diesel truck that may or may not hold 3000# in the
bed, and definitely can tow a trailer; the ones uhaul rents for $25/ day
can take 1650# (maybe home depot has some heavier duty ones?)

...
Apparently you are looking at the 5x9 ramp trailer,http://www.uhaul.com/guide/index.asp...pentrailer-5x9
but for about $5 more you can go to 1915 pounds in a 6x12,http://www.uhaul.com/guide/index.asp...entrailer-6x12
and UHaul also has flat vehicle trailers with 4000 pound capacity
that might be ok if you can find a way to fasten the rocks down.

I've seen some 5x9 ramp trailers loaded at least a thousand pounds
over the weight that UHaul recommends; they towed just fine, but of
course you shouldn't do that if going any distance.

[snip Plans A-D]

You also haven't said how far you need to move the stone. If it's a
short distance, you might have more options.

Best wishes,

Chris

On Mar 10, 4:48*pm, Bernard Arnest wrote:
, a bunch of cut-up PVC pipes,

A bunch of cut-up PVC pipes? Why not just take along someone with a
modicum of common sense? Or hire someone to transport it for you?

John Martin

You will just snap PVC pipes. Planks, 1-1/2" steel pipe, pallets, a com
a long will load a car hauler but it will be a long day.

Bernard Arnest wrote:
that's a good idea....

turns out the quarry will not help me with a forklift, not even for a
price.
How about getting a car trailer, which should tilt to the ground; a
come-along, a couple crowbars, a bunch of cut-up PVC pipes, and
rolling it up onto the trailer?? Never need to lift it off the
ground.




On Mar 10, 11:52 am, James Waldby wrote:
On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 01:32:46 -0800, Bernard Arnest wrote:

[re 1-ton piece of marble] A friend has a diesel truck that may or may not hold 3000# in the
bed, and definitely can tow a trailer; the ones uhaul rents for $25/ day
can take 1650# (maybe home depot has some heavier duty ones?)
...
Apparently you are looking at the 5x9 ramp trailer,http://www.uhaul.com/guide/index.asp...pentrailer-5x9
but for about $5 more you can go to 1915 pounds in a 6x12,http://www.uhaul.com/guide/index.asp...entrailer-6x12
and UHaul also has flat vehicle trailers with 4000 pound capacity
that might be ok if you can find a way to fasten the rocks down.

I've seen some 5x9 ramp trailers loaded at least a thousand pounds
over the weight that UHaul recommends; they towed just fine, but of
course you shouldn't do that if going any distance.

[snip Plans A-D]

I get the impression that these are right off the road, so we can move
them practically no distance at all, back the trailer right up to the
blocks. It was the lifting bit that was hard; a ramped trailer
promises to solve that.
If for any reason they're not right off the road, as in down a slope,
then I have bigger issues anyway!

I hear that the weather is poor, so I'll do this in 2 weeks.

Apologies, I thought that among a couple dozen, small-diameter ones
that pvc would hold up; maybe even work better if it can flex. I can
probably find some cheap scrap steel pipe though.

Should I taper the boards on a bandsaw?

Thinking that I might try practicing with that surface grinder
first :-)


-Bernard

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 21:41:32 -0700 (PDT), with neither quill nor
qualm, Bernard Arnest quickly quoth:

I get the impression that these are right off the road, so we can move
them practically no distance at all, back the trailer right up to the
blocks. It was the lifting bit that was hard; a ramped trailer
promises to solve that.

Look around and see if you can rent a drop-bed trailer. The whole bed
lowers to the ground. I don't recall the actual name of this type of
trailer.


If for any reason they're not right off the road, as in down a slope,
then I have bigger issues anyway!

Build a sled for the slabs and rent a wrecker to fish 'em up!

--
It's a shallow life that doesn't give a person a few scars.
-- Garrison Keillor

I've not done rocks, I have done saw logs: 14" to 20" in diameter x 12'
long, 1000 pounds to 1500 pounds. For something round and straight, you
would be surprised at how cranky they can be to get on a tilt trailer.

If you can get your rocks centered on a pallet, fastened down with
chicken wire and nylon straps, the pallets will slide easily on 2x12
planks. Rollers are not necessary, they tend to make the load TOO easy
to move and it may roll out of control.

If you go ahead with this, I'd suggest getting a decent sized pile of 8'
long 2x12's.

Bernard Arnest wrote:
I get the impression that these are right off the road, so we can move
them practically no distance at all, back the trailer right up to the
blocks. It was the lifting bit that was hard; a ramped trailer
promises to solve that.
If for any reason they're not right off the road, as in down a slope,
then I have bigger issues anyway!

I hear that the weather is poor, so I'll do this in 2 weeks.

Apologies, I thought that among a couple dozen, small-diameter ones
that pvc would hold up; maybe even work better if it can flex. I can
probably find some cheap scrap steel pipe though.

Should I taper the boards on a bandsaw?

Thinking that I might try practicing with that surface grinder
first :-)


-Bernard