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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
On the Famco webpage, I saw arbor presses similar in size and frame to
mine, but with ratcheting mechanism, that were rated up to 8 tons. (3 1/2-C). So I thought how to get a little more force from my press, and decided to try a hydraulic jack. I bought the smallest rated jack (4 tons) at Harbor Freight for $12.99. I calculated that with moderate effort, and only half length of the handle, the press produces about 8-10 tons of effort when assisted with the jack. See pix here. http://igor.chudov.com/projects/misc...raulic-Assist/ It does not seem to be damaging the ratcheting mechanism. i |
#2
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
Rod wrote:
Ignoramus1775 wrote: On the Famco webpage, I saw arbor presses similar in size and frame to mine, but with ratcheting mechanism, that were rated up to 8 tons. (3 1/2-C). So I thought how to get a little more force from my press, and decided to try a hydraulic jack. I bought the smallest rated jack (4 tons) at Harbor Freight for $12.99. I calculated that with moderate effort, and only half length of the handle, the press produces about 8-10 tons of effort when assisted with the jack. See pix here. http://igor.chudov.com/projects/misc...raulic-Assist/ It does not seem to be damaging the ratcheting mechanism. i LOL. Stuporamous seems more appropriate. Your operating outside its design limits. If you continue to overload it its going to eventually crack the frame somewhere. you may have seen some the same size but higher tonnage rated. the metal frame may then have been of cast steel instead of cast iron. If you want more tonnage get a bigger press. If it breaks catastrophically, you may get injured. |
#3
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
Ignoramus1775 wrote:
On the Famco webpage, I saw arbor presses similar in size and frame to mine, but with ratcheting mechanism, that were rated up to 8 tons. (3 1/2-C). So I thought how to get a little more force from my press, and decided to try a hydraulic jack. I bought the smallest rated jack (4 tons) at Harbor Freight for $12.99. I calculated that with moderate effort, and only half length of the handle, the press produces about 8-10 tons of effort when assisted with the jack. See pix here. http://igor.chudov.com/projects/misc...raulic-Assist/ It does not seem to be damaging the ratcheting mechanism. i LOL. Stuporamous seems more appropriate. |
#4
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
Ignoramus1775 wrote:
It does not seem to be damaging the ratcheting mechanism. This isn't a good idea. I'd abandon it unless you are planning to post pictures of how you welded your broken frame back together. Wes |
#5
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
On 2008-03-08, Ignoramus1775 wrote:
[ ... ] See pix here. http://igor.chudov.com/projects/misc...raulic-Assist/ It does not seem to be damaging the ratcheting mechanism. I would be more worried about it shearing off a tooth or two on the rack gear. That is probably the weakest part of the arrangement. Enjoy, DoN. -- Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#6
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
On 9 Mar 2008 04:13:52 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "DoN.
Nichols" quickly quoth: On 2008-03-08, Ignoramus1775 wrote: [ ... ] See pix here. http://igor.chudov.com/projects/misc...raulic-Assist/ It does not seem to be damaging the ratcheting mechanism. I would be more worried about it shearing off a tooth or two on the rack gear. That is probably the weakest part of the arrangement. I'd be worried about cracking that counterweight off the casting by getting too rambunctious with the little 4T jack. Bets as to when we see that pic on Iggy's site? -- The best and safest thing is to keep a balance in your life, acknowledge the great powers around us and in us. If you can do that, and live that way, you are really a wise man. -- Euripides |
#7
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 08:51:41 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
bq340 quickly quoth: Larry Jaques wrote: I'd be worried about cracking that counterweight off the casting by getting too rambunctious with the little 4T jack. Bets as to when we see that pic on Iggy's site? Or maybe the press lifting off the table & dropping onto his foot? Nah. I'd be willing to bet that it's well anchored to the table. -- The best and safest thing is to keep a balance in your life, acknowledge the great powers around us and in us. If you can do that, and live that way, you are really a wise man. -- Euripides |
#8
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
Larry Jaques wrote:
I'd be worried about cracking that counterweight off the casting by getting too rambunctious with the little 4T jack. Bets as to when we see that pic on Iggy's site? I was looking at arbor presses in the enco flyer tonight and noticed a steep increase in weight vs tonnage. They all look alike, but they get more massive for a reason. Wes |
#9
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
Nice press. but it looks like the jack is also attempting to lift the
press off the bench. Shouldn't the jack be sitting on a common plate the press is bolted to, or am I seeing the pic wrong? It looks like the jack is resting on the bench top. JR Dweller in th ecellar Ignoramus1775 wrote: On the Famco webpage, I saw arbor presses similar in size and frame to mine, but with ratcheting mechanism, that were rated up to 8 tons. (3 1/2-C). So I thought how to get a little more force from my press, and decided to try a hydraulic jack. I bought the smallest rated jack (4 tons) at Harbor Freight for $12.99. I calculated that with moderate effort, and only half length of the handle, the press produces about 8-10 tons of effort when assisted with the jack. See pix here. http://igor.chudov.com/projects/misc...raulic-Assist/ It does not seem to be damaging the ratcheting mechanism. i -- -------------------------------------------------------------- Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses -------------------------------------------------------------- Dependence is Vulnerability: -------------------------------------------------------------- "Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal" "I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.." |
#10
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
On 2008-03-09, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 08:51:41 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, bq340 quickly quoth: Larry Jaques wrote: I'd be worried about cracking that counterweight off the casting by getting too rambunctious with the little 4T jack. Bets as to when we see that pic on Iggy's site? Or maybe the press lifting off the table & dropping onto his foot? Nah. I'd be willing to bet that it's well anchored to the table. Grade 5 7/16 bolts (fine thread). Chances are overwhelming that I will abandon this idea, seems like the risk is not worth taking. i |
#11
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
On 2008-03-09, JR North wrote:
Nice press. but it looks like the jack is also attempting to lift the press off the bench. Shouldn't the jack be sitting on a common plate the press is bolted to, or am I seeing the pic wrong? It looks like the jack is resting on the bench top. The press is bolted to the table. The table has a 1/4" thick top. The bolts are 7/16"thick grade 5. As I said, I now think that doing what I did, was a mistake. i Dweller in th ecellar Ignoramus1775 wrote: On the Famco webpage, I saw arbor presses similar in size and frame to mine, but with ratcheting mechanism, that were rated up to 8 tons. (3 1/2-C). So I thought how to get a little more force from my press, and decided to try a hydraulic jack. I bought the smallest rated jack (4 tons) at Harbor Freight for $12.99. I calculated that with moderate effort, and only half length of the handle, the press produces about 8-10 tons of effort when assisted with the jack. See pix here. http://igor.chudov.com/projects/misc...raulic-Assist/ It does not seem to be damaging the ratcheting mechanism. i |
#12
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 09:11:36 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Wes
quickly quoth: Larry Jaques wrote: I'd be worried about cracking that counterweight off the casting by getting too rambunctious with the little 4T jack. Bets as to when we see that pic on Iggy's site? I was looking at arbor presses in the enco flyer tonight and noticed a steep increase in weight vs tonnage. They all look alike, but they get more massive for a reason. Well DUH! g Do you suppose there is any chance in hell that the original engineer who designed that press would have foreseen the possibility that someone would place a jack beneath the counterweight, and he would have designed that into the shape? I don't think so, either. Engineers design for lightness where possible, and heavy-dutiness (new word?) where required. I think Don and I are on track as to any potential weaknesses in the design in regard to jacking there. -- The best and safest thing is to keep a balance in your life, acknowledge the great powers around us and in us. If you can do that, and live that way, you are really a wise man. -- Euripides |
#13
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 11:45:21 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus1775 quickly quoth: On 2008-03-09, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote: On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 08:51:41 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, bq340 quickly quoth: Larry Jaques wrote: I'd be worried about cracking that counterweight off the casting by getting too rambunctious with the little 4T jack. Bets as to when we see that pic on Iggy's site? Or maybe the press lifting off the table & dropping onto his foot? Nah. I'd be willing to bet that it's well anchored to the table. Grade 5 7/16 bolts (fine thread). Chances are overwhelming that I will abandon this idea, seems like the risk is not worth taking. Good call. -- The best and safest thing is to keep a balance in your life, acknowledge the great powers around us and in us. If you can do that, and live that way, you are really a wise man. -- Euripides |
#14
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
On Mar 8, 6:48*pm, Ignoramus1775
wrote: ... I calculated that with moderate effort, and only half length of the handle, the press produces about 8-10 tons of effort when assisted with the jack. ... i http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=33497 I have my arbor press mounted between the legs of the hydraulic press to save space. The arbor press has a better feel for starting things straight, the hydraulic press works easily with one hand so I can watch the part bottom out and stop before damaging it. I didn't have that control stomping on a pipe on the arbor press handle. |
#15
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
Larry Jaques wrote:
Well DUH! g Do you suppose there is any chance in hell that the original engineer who designed that press would have foreseen the possibility that someone would place a jack beneath the counterweight, and he would have designed that into the shape? I don't think so, either. Well, I was trying to give Iggy a clue as to why that jack is a *bad* idea. Wes |
#16
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
On 2008-03-09, Wes wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote: Well DUH! g Do you suppose there is any chance in hell that the original engineer who designed that press would have foreseen the possibility that someone would place a jack beneath the counterweight, and he would have designed that into the shape? I don't think so, either. Well, I was trying to give Iggy a clue as to why that jack is a *bad* idea. I now agree that it was a bad idea. Thanks for some enlightenment in this regard. i |
#17
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
"Ignoramus1775" wrote in message ... On 2008-03-09, JR North wrote: Nice press. but it looks like the jack is also attempting to lift the press off the bench. Shouldn't the jack be sitting on a common plate the press is bolted to, or am I seeing the pic wrong? It looks like the jack is resting on the bench top. The press is bolted to the table. The table has a 1/4" thick top. The bolts are 7/16"thick grade 5. As I said, I now think that doing what I did, was a mistake. i Dweller in th ecellar Ignoramus1775 wrote: On the Famco webpage, I saw arbor presses similar in size and frame to mine, but with ratcheting mechanism, that were rated up to 8 tons. (3 1/2-C). So I thought how to get a little more force from my press, and decided to try a hydraulic jack. I bought the smallest rated jack (4 tons) at Harbor Freight for $12.99. I calculated that with moderate effort, and only half length of the handle, the press produces about 8-10 tons of effort when assisted with the jack. See pix here. http://igor.chudov.com/projects/misc...raulic-Assist/ It does not seem to be damaging the ratcheting mechanism. i You can get the same effects (more force/broken press) simplier and easier by just putting a long extension on the lever. Not that anyone would ever actually do such a thing. [:)]. Don Young |
#18
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
Ignoramus1775 wrote:
On 2008-03-09, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote: On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 08:51:41 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm, bq340 quickly quoth: Larry Jaques wrote: I'd be worried about cracking that counterweight off the casting by getting too rambunctious with the little 4T jack. Bets as to when we see that pic on Iggy's site? Or maybe the press lifting off the table & dropping onto his foot? Nah. I'd be willing to bet that it's well anchored to the table. Grade 5 7/16 bolts (fine thread). Chances are overwhelming that I will abandon this idea, seems like the risk is not worth taking. i Don't be a quitter. Continue your stupid efforts as before. |
#19
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
Don Young wrote:
"Ignoramus1775" wrote in message ... On 2008-03-09, JR North wrote: Nice press. but it looks like the jack is also attempting to lift the press off the bench. Shouldn't the jack be sitting on a common plate the press is bolted to, or am I seeing the pic wrong? It looks like the jack is resting on the bench top. The press is bolted to the table. The table has a 1/4" thick top. The bolts are 7/16"thick grade 5. As I said, I now think that doing what I did, was a mistake. i Dweller in th ecellar Ignoramus1775 wrote: On the Famco webpage, I saw arbor presses similar in size and frame to mine, but with ratcheting mechanism, that were rated up to 8 tons. (3 1/2-C). So I thought how to get a little more force from my press, and decided to try a hydraulic jack. I bought the smallest rated jack (4 tons) at Harbor Freight for $12.99. I calculated that with moderate effort, and only half length of the handle, the press produces about 8-10 tons of effort when assisted with the jack. See pix here. http://igor.chudov.com/projects/misc...raulic-Assist/ It does not seem to be damaging the ratcheting mechanism. i You can get the same effects (more force/broken press) simplier and easier by just putting a long extension on the lever. Not that anyone would ever actually do such a thing. [:)]. Don Young He doesn't understand the concept of a cheater bar or pipe yet. Slow down. |
#20
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
On 2008-03-10, Don Young wrote:
You can get the same effects (more force/broken press) simplier and easier by just putting a long extension on the lever. Not that anyone would ever actually do such a thing. [:)]. No, the handle starts bending at a certain level of force. i |
#21
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
I'd just get a hydraulic shop press. You can buy them fully
assembled, as kits, or weld up one yourself. Since they directly transmit the force from the jack to the part, they don't have as many engineering-critical parts. Measure up a commercial unit, to get an idea of the appropriate sizes, thicknesses, etc. of the steel channel elements, and have a field day. |
#22
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
Ignoramus14968 wrote:
I now agree that it was a bad idea. Thanks for some enlightenment in this regard. I'd use it as intended and you are close enough to Harbor Freight that a hydraulic press is cheap enough since you can pick it up if you really need it. For some automotive applications, you really need a hyd press. When pushing a broach, that feel, the ability to back up quickly to make sure you aren't pushing the broach off center (I broke one with a hyd press once) is sweet. Also nice when you pushing in bushings and dowel pins, your hand tells you if something isn't right. Arbor Press = sensitive press Hydraulic Press = Brute force Wes |
#23
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
Cydrome Leader wrote:
He doesn't understand the concept of a cheater bar or pipe yet. Slow down. I wonder if the design engineers figured the bending point of the rod one puts the cheater on as the 'shear pin'. Hey, is there a shear pin in these things? Wes |
#24
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
On 2008-03-10, Wes wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote: He doesn't understand the concept of a cheater bar or pipe yet. Slow down. I wonder if the design engineers figured the bending point of the rod one puts the cheater on as the 'shear pin'. Hey, is there a shear pin in these things? There is no shear pin, but under too much force, the rod does bend as you say. i |
#25
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
my take is that it looks like the jack is about to spit out forward into the
operator. Your using friction of the 2/4's and the bottom of the jack to hold it all together. If it was mine, I would weld up a frame over the top of the arbor press and use the hydraulic jack to push directly down on the arbor. Just my two cents worth... but as you have it, its fairly dangerous.... bob in phx. "woodworker88" wrote in message ... I'd just get a hydraulic shop press. You can buy them fully assembled, as kits, or weld up one yourself. Since they directly transmit the force from the jack to the part, they don't have as many engineering-critical parts. Measure up a commercial unit, to get an idea of the appropriate sizes, thicknesses, etc. of the steel channel elements, and have a field day. |
#26
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
On 2008-03-10, Bob in Phx wrote:
my take is that it looks like the jack is about to spit out forward into the operator. Your using friction of the 2/4's and the bottom of the jack to hold it all together. If it was mine, I would weld up a frame over the top of the arbor press and use the hydraulic jack to push directly down on the arbor. Just my two cents worth... but as you have it, its fairly dangerous.... It's all moot by now, but there is not much energy stored in this system. i bob in phx. "woodworker88" wrote in message ... I'd just get a hydraulic shop press. You can buy them fully assembled, as kits, or weld up one yourself. Since they directly transmit the force from the jack to the part, they don't have as many engineering-critical parts. Measure up a commercial unit, to get an idea of the appropriate sizes, thicknesses, etc. of the steel channel elements, and have a field day. |
#27
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
"Larry Jaques" wrote: (clip) heavy-dutiness (new word?) (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Why coin a new word when an old one will do: heavy dutility. |
#28
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:06:57 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Leo
Lichtman" quickly quoth: "Larry Jaques" wrote: (clip) heavy-dutiness (new word?) (clip) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Why coin a new word when an old one will do: heavy dutility. I like it! P.S: Hey, Leo. How come/whuffo you never got back to me on that Global Warming(kumbaya) thing? I dared you and Mark to show cites and you both disappeared. Funny thing, that. (One RCM subject was: Lead linked to aging in older brains; I forgot the other.) -- The best and safest thing is to keep a balance in your life, acknowledge the great powers around us and in us. If you can do that, and live that way, you are really a wise man. -- Euripides |
#29
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
"Larry Jaques" (clip) P.S: Hey, Leo. How come/whuffo you never got back to me on that Global Warming(kumbaya) thing? I dared you and Mark to show cites and you both disappeared. Funny thing, that. (One RCM subject was: Lead linked to aging in older brains; I forgot the other.) ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ I forget. |
#30
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 16:29:43 -0500, Ignoramus14968
wrote: On 2008-03-09, Wes wrote: Larry Jaques wrote: Well DUH! g Do you suppose there is any chance in hell that the original engineer who designed that press would have foreseen the possibility that someone would place a jack beneath the counterweight, and he would have designed that into the shape? I don't think so, either. Well, I was trying to give Iggy a clue as to why that jack is a *bad* idea. I now agree that it was a bad idea. Thanks for some enlightenment in this regard. i First time Ive ever seen anyone build a hydraulic powered time delayed IED. Gunner |
#31
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 20:35:44 -0500, "Don Young"
wrote: i You can get the same effects (more force/broken press) simplier and easier by just putting a long extension on the lever. Not that anyone would ever actually do such a thing. [:)]. Half the machine shops I work in that have a press like this, have bent handles. A goodly number have cleaner spots where a press used to be, and a cheater pipe in the corner. Gunner |
#32
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:54:48 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner quickly quoth: On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 16:29:43 -0500, Ignoramus14968 wrote: On 2008-03-09, Wes wrote: Larry Jaques wrote: Well DUH! g Do you suppose there is any chance in hell that the original engineer who designed that press would have foreseen the possibility that someone would place a jack beneath the counterweight, and he would have designed that into the shape? I don't think so, either. Well, I was trying to give Iggy a clue as to why that jack is a *bad* idea. I now agree that it was a bad idea. Thanks for some enlightenment in this regard. i First time Ive ever seen anyone build a hydraulic powered time delayed IED. Hey, if it had shifted wrong, it might have become an IUD! -- It's a shallow life that doesn't give a person a few scars. -- Garrison Keillor |
#33
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PICTURES -- Hydraulic assist for the arbor press
On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 05:20:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:54:48 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm, Gunner quickly quoth: On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 16:29:43 -0500, Ignoramus14968 wrote: On 2008-03-09, Wes wrote: Larry Jaques wrote: Well DUH! g Do you suppose there is any chance in hell that the original engineer who designed that press would have foreseen the possibility that someone would place a jack beneath the counterweight, and he would have designed that into the shape? I don't think so, either. Well, I was trying to give Iggy a clue as to why that jack is a *bad* idea. I now agree that it was a bad idea. Thanks for some enlightenment in this regard. i First time Ive ever seen anyone build a hydraulic powered time delayed IED. Hey, if it had shifted wrong, it might have become an IUD! ROFLMAO!! Gunner |
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