Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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On the Famco webpage, I saw arbor presses similar in size and frame to
mine, but with ratcheting mechanism, that were rated up to 8 tons. (3
1/2-C). So I thought how to get a little more force from my press, and
decided to try a hydraulic jack. I bought the smallest rated jack (4
tons) at Harbor Freight for $12.99.

I calculated that with moderate effort, and only half length of the
handle, the press produces about 8-10 tons of effort when assisted
with the jack.

See pix here.

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/misc...raulic-Assist/

It does not seem to be damaging the ratcheting mechanism.

i
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Rod wrote:
Ignoramus1775 wrote:

On the Famco webpage, I saw arbor presses similar in size and frame to
mine, but with ratcheting mechanism, that were rated up to 8 tons. (3
1/2-C). So I thought how to get a little more force from my press, and
decided to try a hydraulic jack. I bought the smallest rated jack (4
tons) at Harbor Freight for $12.99.
I calculated that with moderate effort, and only half length of the
handle, the press produces about 8-10 tons of effort when assisted
with the jack.
See pix here.

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/misc...raulic-Assist/


It does not seem to be damaging the ratcheting mechanism.
i



LOL. Stuporamous seems more appropriate.

Your operating outside its design limits.
If you continue to overload it its going to eventually crack the frame
somewhere.
you may have seen some the same size but higher tonnage rated.
the metal frame may then have been of cast steel instead of cast iron.
If you want more tonnage get a bigger press.
If it breaks catastrophically, you may get injured.

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Ignoramus1775 wrote:

On the Famco webpage, I saw arbor presses similar in size and frame to
mine, but with ratcheting mechanism, that were rated up to 8 tons. (3
1/2-C). So I thought how to get a little more force from my press, and
decided to try a hydraulic jack. I bought the smallest rated jack (4
tons) at Harbor Freight for $12.99.

I calculated that with moderate effort, and only half length of the
handle, the press produces about 8-10 tons of effort when assisted
with the jack.

See pix here.

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/misc...raulic-Assist/

It does not seem to be damaging the ratcheting mechanism.

i

LOL. Stuporamous seems more appropriate.
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Ignoramus1775 wrote:

It does not seem to be damaging the ratcheting mechanism.


This isn't a good idea. I'd abandon it unless you are planning to post
pictures of how you welded your broken frame back together.


Wes

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On 2008-03-08, Ignoramus1775 wrote:

[ ... ]

See pix here.

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/misc...raulic-Assist/

It does not seem to be damaging the ratcheting mechanism.


I would be more worried about it shearing off a tooth or two on
the rack gear. That is probably the weakest part of the arrangement.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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On 9 Mar 2008 04:13:52 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "DoN.
Nichols" quickly quoth:

On 2008-03-08, Ignoramus1775 wrote:

[ ... ]

See pix here.

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/misc...raulic-Assist/

It does not seem to be damaging the ratcheting mechanism.


I would be more worried about it shearing off a tooth or two on
the rack gear. That is probably the weakest part of the arrangement.


I'd be worried about cracking that counterweight off the casting by
getting too rambunctious with the little 4T jack. Bets as to when we
see that pic on Iggy's site?

--
The best and safest thing is to keep a balance in your life,
acknowledge the great powers around us and in us. If you can
do that, and live that way, you are really a wise man.
-- Euripides
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On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 08:51:41 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
bq340 quickly quoth:

Larry Jaques wrote:
I'd be worried about cracking that counterweight off the casting by
getting too rambunctious with the little 4T jack. Bets as to when we
see that pic on Iggy's site?

Or maybe the press lifting off the table & dropping onto his foot?


Nah. I'd be willing to bet that it's well anchored to the table.

--
The best and safest thing is to keep a balance in your life,
acknowledge the great powers around us and in us. If you can
do that, and live that way, you are really a wise man.
-- Euripides
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Larry Jaques wrote:

I'd be worried about cracking that counterweight off the casting by
getting too rambunctious with the little 4T jack. Bets as to when we
see that pic on Iggy's site?


I was looking at arbor presses in the enco flyer tonight and noticed a steep
increase in weight vs tonnage. They all look alike, but they get more
massive for a reason.

Wes
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Nice press. but it looks like the jack is also attempting to lift the
press off the bench. Shouldn't the jack be sitting on a common plate the
press is bolted to, or am I seeing the pic wrong? It looks like the jack
is resting on the bench top.
JR
Dweller in th ecellar

Ignoramus1775 wrote:
On the Famco webpage, I saw arbor presses similar in size and frame to
mine, but with ratcheting mechanism, that were rated up to 8 tons. (3
1/2-C). So I thought how to get a little more force from my press, and
decided to try a hydraulic jack. I bought the smallest rated jack (4
tons) at Harbor Freight for $12.99.

I calculated that with moderate effort, and only half length of the
handle, the press produces about 8-10 tons of effort when assisted
with the jack.

See pix here.

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/misc...raulic-Assist/

It does not seem to be damaging the ratcheting mechanism.

i



--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
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"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."
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On 2008-03-09, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 08:51:41 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
bq340 quickly quoth:

Larry Jaques wrote:
I'd be worried about cracking that counterweight off the casting by
getting too rambunctious with the little 4T jack. Bets as to when we
see that pic on Iggy's site?

Or maybe the press lifting off the table & dropping onto his foot?


Nah. I'd be willing to bet that it's well anchored to the table.


Grade 5 7/16 bolts (fine thread).

Chances are overwhelming that I will abandon this idea, seems like the
risk is not worth taking.

i


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On 2008-03-09, JR North wrote:
Nice press. but it looks like the jack is also attempting to lift the
press off the bench. Shouldn't the jack be sitting on a common plate the
press is bolted to, or am I seeing the pic wrong? It looks like the jack
is resting on the bench top.


The press is bolted to the table. The table has a 1/4" thick top. The
bolts are 7/16"thick grade 5. As I said, I now think that doing what I
did, was a mistake.

i

Dweller in th ecellar

Ignoramus1775 wrote:
On the Famco webpage, I saw arbor presses similar in size and frame to
mine, but with ratcheting mechanism, that were rated up to 8 tons. (3
1/2-C). So I thought how to get a little more force from my press, and
decided to try a hydraulic jack. I bought the smallest rated jack (4
tons) at Harbor Freight for $12.99.

I calculated that with moderate effort, and only half length of the
handle, the press produces about 8-10 tons of effort when assisted
with the jack.

See pix here.

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/misc...raulic-Assist/

It does not seem to be damaging the ratcheting mechanism.

i



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On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 09:11:36 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm, Wes
quickly quoth:

Larry Jaques wrote:

I'd be worried about cracking that counterweight off the casting by
getting too rambunctious with the little 4T jack. Bets as to when we
see that pic on Iggy's site?


I was looking at arbor presses in the enco flyer tonight and noticed a steep
increase in weight vs tonnage. They all look alike, but they get more
massive for a reason.


Well DUH! g

Do you suppose there is any chance in hell that the original engineer
who designed that press would have foreseen the possibility that
someone would place a jack beneath the counterweight, and he would
have designed that into the shape? I don't think so, either.

Engineers design for lightness where possible, and heavy-dutiness (new
word?) where required. I think Don and I are on track as to any
potential weaknesses in the design in regard to jacking there.

--
The best and safest thing is to keep a balance in your life,
acknowledge the great powers around us and in us. If you can
do that, and live that way, you are really a wise man.
-- Euripides
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On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 11:45:21 -0500, with neither quill nor qualm,
Ignoramus1775 quickly quoth:

On 2008-03-09, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 08:51:41 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
bq340 quickly quoth:

Larry Jaques wrote:
I'd be worried about cracking that counterweight off the casting by
getting too rambunctious with the little 4T jack. Bets as to when we
see that pic on Iggy's site?

Or maybe the press lifting off the table & dropping onto his foot?


Nah. I'd be willing to bet that it's well anchored to the table.


Grade 5 7/16 bolts (fine thread).

Chances are overwhelming that I will abandon this idea, seems like the
risk is not worth taking.


Good call.

--
The best and safest thing is to keep a balance in your life,
acknowledge the great powers around us and in us. If you can
do that, and live that way, you are really a wise man.
-- Euripides
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On Mar 8, 6:48*pm, Ignoramus1775
wrote:
...
I calculated that with moderate effort, and only half length of the
handle, the press produces about 8-10 tons of effort when assisted
with the jack.

...
i


http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=33497

I have my arbor press mounted between the legs of the hydraulic press
to save space. The arbor press has a better feel for starting things
straight, the hydraulic press works easily with one hand so I can
watch the part bottom out and stop before damaging it. I didn't have
that control stomping on a pipe on the arbor press handle.

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Larry Jaques wrote:

Well DUH! g

Do you suppose there is any chance in hell that the original engineer
who designed that press would have foreseen the possibility that
someone would place a jack beneath the counterweight, and he would
have designed that into the shape? I don't think so, either.


Well, I was trying to give Iggy a clue as to why that jack is a *bad* idea.

Wes


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On 2008-03-09, Wes wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:

Well DUH! g

Do you suppose there is any chance in hell that the original engineer
who designed that press would have foreseen the possibility that
someone would place a jack beneath the counterweight, and he would
have designed that into the shape? I don't think so, either.


Well, I was trying to give Iggy a clue as to why that jack is a *bad* idea.


I now agree that it was a bad idea. Thanks for some enlightenment in
this regard.

i
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"Ignoramus1775" wrote in message
...
On 2008-03-09, JR North wrote:
Nice press. but it looks like the jack is also attempting to lift the
press off the bench. Shouldn't the jack be sitting on a common plate the
press is bolted to, or am I seeing the pic wrong? It looks like the jack
is resting on the bench top.


The press is bolted to the table. The table has a 1/4" thick top. The
bolts are 7/16"thick grade 5. As I said, I now think that doing what I
did, was a mistake.

i

Dweller in th ecellar

Ignoramus1775 wrote:
On the Famco webpage, I saw arbor presses similar in size and frame to
mine, but with ratcheting mechanism, that were rated up to 8 tons. (3
1/2-C). So I thought how to get a little more force from my press, and
decided to try a hydraulic jack. I bought the smallest rated jack (4
tons) at Harbor Freight for $12.99.

I calculated that with moderate effort, and only half length of the
handle, the press produces about 8-10 tons of effort when assisted
with the jack.

See pix here.

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/misc...raulic-Assist/

It does not seem to be damaging the ratcheting mechanism.

i



You can get the same effects (more force/broken press) simplier and easier
by just putting a long extension on the lever. Not that anyone would ever
actually do such a thing. [:)].

Don Young


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Ignoramus1775 wrote:
On 2008-03-09, Larry Jaques novalidaddress@di wrote:
On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 08:51:41 -0400, with neither quill nor qualm,
bq340 quickly quoth:

Larry Jaques wrote:
I'd be worried about cracking that counterweight off the casting by
getting too rambunctious with the little 4T jack. Bets as to when we
see that pic on Iggy's site?

Or maybe the press lifting off the table & dropping onto his foot?


Nah. I'd be willing to bet that it's well anchored to the table.


Grade 5 7/16 bolts (fine thread).

Chances are overwhelming that I will abandon this idea, seems like the
risk is not worth taking.

i


Don't be a quitter. Continue your stupid efforts as before.
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Don Young wrote:

"Ignoramus1775" wrote in message
...
On 2008-03-09, JR North wrote:
Nice press. but it looks like the jack is also attempting to lift the
press off the bench. Shouldn't the jack be sitting on a common plate the
press is bolted to, or am I seeing the pic wrong? It looks like the jack
is resting on the bench top.


The press is bolted to the table. The table has a 1/4" thick top. The
bolts are 7/16"thick grade 5. As I said, I now think that doing what I
did, was a mistake.

i

Dweller in th ecellar

Ignoramus1775 wrote:
On the Famco webpage, I saw arbor presses similar in size and frame to
mine, but with ratcheting mechanism, that were rated up to 8 tons. (3
1/2-C). So I thought how to get a little more force from my press, and
decided to try a hydraulic jack. I bought the smallest rated jack (4
tons) at Harbor Freight for $12.99.

I calculated that with moderate effort, and only half length of the
handle, the press produces about 8-10 tons of effort when assisted
with the jack.

See pix here.

http://igor.chudov.com/projects/misc...raulic-Assist/

It does not seem to be damaging the ratcheting mechanism.

i


You can get the same effects (more force/broken press) simplier and easier
by just putting a long extension on the lever. Not that anyone would ever
actually do such a thing. [:)].

Don Young


He doesn't understand the concept of a cheater bar or pipe yet. Slow down.
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On 2008-03-10, Don Young wrote:
You can get the same effects (more force/broken press) simplier and easier
by just putting a long extension on the lever. Not that anyone would ever
actually do such a thing. [:)].


No, the handle starts bending at a certain level of force.

i


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I'd just get a hydraulic shop press. You can buy them fully
assembled, as kits, or weld up one yourself. Since they directly
transmit the force from the jack to the part, they don't have as many
engineering-critical parts. Measure up a commercial unit, to get an
idea of the appropriate sizes, thicknesses, etc. of the steel channel
elements, and have a field day.
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Ignoramus14968 wrote:

I now agree that it was a bad idea. Thanks for some enlightenment in
this regard.


I'd use it as intended and you are close enough to Harbor Freight that a
hydraulic press is cheap enough since you can pick it up if you really need
it. For some automotive applications, you really need a hyd press.

When pushing a broach, that feel, the ability to back up quickly to make
sure you aren't pushing the broach off center (I broke one with a hyd press
once) is sweet. Also nice when you pushing in bushings and dowel pins, your
hand tells you if something isn't right.

Arbor Press = sensitive press
Hydraulic Press = Brute force


Wes
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Cydrome Leader wrote:

He doesn't understand the concept of a cheater bar or pipe yet. Slow down.


I wonder if the design engineers figured the bending point of the rod one
puts the cheater on as the 'shear pin'. Hey, is there a shear pin in these
things?

Wes
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On 2008-03-10, Wes wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote:

He doesn't understand the concept of a cheater bar or pipe yet. Slow down.


I wonder if the design engineers figured the bending point of the rod one
puts the cheater on as the 'shear pin'. Hey, is there a shear pin in these
things?


There is no shear pin, but under too much force, the rod does bend as you say.

i
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my take is that it looks like the jack is about to spit out forward into the
operator. Your using friction of the 2/4's and the bottom of the jack to
hold it all together. If it was mine, I would weld up a frame over the top
of the arbor press and use the hydraulic jack to push directly down on the
arbor. Just my two cents worth... but as you have it, its fairly
dangerous....

bob in phx.
"woodworker88" wrote in message
...
I'd just get a hydraulic shop press. You can buy them fully
assembled, as kits, or weld up one yourself. Since they directly
transmit the force from the jack to the part, they don't have as many
engineering-critical parts. Measure up a commercial unit, to get an
idea of the appropriate sizes, thicknesses, etc. of the steel channel
elements, and have a field day.





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On 2008-03-10, Bob in Phx wrote:
my take is that it looks like the jack is about to spit out forward into the
operator. Your using friction of the 2/4's and the bottom of the jack to
hold it all together. If it was mine, I would weld up a frame over the top
of the arbor press and use the hydraulic jack to push directly down on the
arbor. Just my two cents worth... but as you have it, its fairly
dangerous....


It's all moot by now, but there is not much energy stored in this
system.

i


bob in phx.
"woodworker88" wrote in message
...
I'd just get a hydraulic shop press. You can buy them fully
assembled, as kits, or weld up one yourself. Since they directly
transmit the force from the jack to the part, they don't have as many
engineering-critical parts. Measure up a commercial unit, to get an
idea of the appropriate sizes, thicknesses, etc. of the steel channel
elements, and have a field day.



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"Larry Jaques" wrote: (clip) heavy-dutiness (new
word?) (clip)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Why coin a new word when an old one will do: heavy dutility.


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On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:06:57 GMT, with neither quill nor qualm, "Leo
Lichtman" quickly quoth:


"Larry Jaques" wrote: (clip) heavy-dutiness (new
word?) (clip)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Why coin a new word when an old one will do: heavy dutility.


I like it!

P.S: Hey, Leo. How come/whuffo you never got back to me on that Global
Warming(kumbaya) thing? I dared you and Mark to show cites and you
both disappeared. Funny thing, that. (One RCM subject was: Lead linked
to aging in older brains; I forgot the other.)

--
The best and safest thing is to keep a balance in your life,
acknowledge the great powers around us and in us. If you can
do that, and live that way, you are really a wise man.
-- Euripides
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"Larry Jaques" (clip) P.S: Hey, Leo. How come/whuffo you never got back to
me on that Global
Warming(kumbaya) thing? I dared you and Mark to show cites and you
both disappeared. Funny thing, that. (One RCM subject was: Lead linked
to aging in older brains; I forgot the other.)

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
I forget.


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On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 16:29:43 -0500, Ignoramus14968
wrote:

On 2008-03-09, Wes wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:

Well DUH! g

Do you suppose there is any chance in hell that the original engineer
who designed that press would have foreseen the possibility that
someone would place a jack beneath the counterweight, and he would
have designed that into the shape? I don't think so, either.


Well, I was trying to give Iggy a clue as to why that jack is a *bad* idea.


I now agree that it was a bad idea. Thanks for some enlightenment in
this regard.

i



First time Ive ever seen anyone build a hydraulic powered time delayed
IED.

Gunner


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On Sun, 9 Mar 2008 20:35:44 -0500, "Don Young"
wrote:

i


You can get the same effects (more force/broken press) simplier and easier
by just putting a long extension on the lever. Not that anyone would ever
actually do such a thing. [:)].



Half the machine shops I work in that have a press like this, have
bent handles.

A goodly number have cleaner spots where a press used to be, and a
cheater pipe in the corner.

Gunner
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On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:54:48 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner quickly quoth:

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 16:29:43 -0500, Ignoramus14968
wrote:

On 2008-03-09, Wes wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:

Well DUH! g

Do you suppose there is any chance in hell that the original engineer
who designed that press would have foreseen the possibility that
someone would place a jack beneath the counterweight, and he would
have designed that into the shape? I don't think so, either.

Well, I was trying to give Iggy a clue as to why that jack is a *bad* idea.


I now agree that it was a bad idea. Thanks for some enlightenment in
this regard.

i


First time Ive ever seen anyone build a hydraulic powered time delayed
IED.


Hey, if it had shifted wrong, it might have become an IUD!

--
It's a shallow life that doesn't give a person a few scars.
-- Garrison Keillor
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On Tue, 11 Mar 2008 05:20:34 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 22:54:48 -0700, with neither quill nor qualm,
Gunner quickly quoth:

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 16:29:43 -0500, Ignoramus14968
wrote:

On 2008-03-09, Wes wrote:
Larry Jaques wrote:

Well DUH! g

Do you suppose there is any chance in hell that the original engineer
who designed that press would have foreseen the possibility that
someone would place a jack beneath the counterweight, and he would
have designed that into the shape? I don't think so, either.

Well, I was trying to give Iggy a clue as to why that jack is a *bad* idea.


I now agree that it was a bad idea. Thanks for some enlightenment in
this regard.

i


First time Ive ever seen anyone build a hydraulic powered time delayed
IED.


Hey, if it had shifted wrong, it might have become an IUD!


ROFLMAO!!

Gunner
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